16:9 aspect ratio?

[steve]

Hello, I like running my games in true widescreen (16:9) Im just wondering if LFS will have the option for a 16:9 aspect ratio in the near future? As of right now I can select a widescreen resolution, but its not true widescreen. If you look at the example pics you can see what I mean, in the LFS screens everything is identical except for the top and bottom of the screen being clipped off, look at the CS:S pic in true widescreen and your able to see at a wider angle and see more stuff. Thanks :)

[Ant]

You need to goto the screen settings page and click the box marked "non square modes". You will then get a few more wide aspect settings.

I know it works, I run at 1680 * 1050 ;)

[Bob Smith]

Yes, but you'll need a widescreen monitor as well. Atm what resolution you pick it will fit the shape of the monitor regardless. The widescreen "effect" just adds black bars. Although, you can simulate this by increasing the FOV when you add the black bars, such that vertical FOV stays the same (instead of decreasing) and horizontal FOV increases.

[KiDCoDEa]

lfs has for years the best support of screenmodes of ANY game.
u have 1) true 16:9 (or whatever relation ratio your card supports like trihead matrox) or u also have 2) 4:3 option "widescreen effect" to have cinemascope type of black bars. that only adds the bars to cut the strangled fov effect verticaly. so u can abuse fov a bit more on "widescreen" effect.
you still have a 3) option, if u have a big and good 4:3 monitor which is to force a 16:9 res like 1280x720 or 1600x900 and have your monitor vertically stretch down to compensate the aspect ratio and memorize that refresh/res combo.
this allows to turn a big 4:3 into a small/medium 16:9 monitor. this has the advantage of allowing higher refresh rates, coz your card has less lines (vertically) to draw. therefore even aa gets a small boost etc.

i run mine for a couple of years at 1600x900 or 1280x720. both in native 16:9 lcd (at 60hz) or at my main 4:3 monitor at (100hz).

[Termi]

Hi all,
i can copy that, lfs have the best support of screenmodes.
Bf2 the res. is finnish at 1600x1200 :(
I use a Benq FP 231 W with a res. of 1920x1200 and lfs support this :)
a ltl pic
http://www.zekkinetta.de/forum/momopl7.JPG

Termi

[steve]

Perhaps I didnt explain myself good enough, im not using the widescreen effect (with the black bars) in LFS, im selecting a widescreen resolution, but its not running in the 16:9 aspect, it just cuts off the top and bottom of the screen, if it was actually running in true widescreen, wouldnt I see a wider screen image? Look at the example pics to see what I mean, the image in LFS is the same in a scaure res and widescreen, just it has cut uff the top and bottom of the image.

How can I force 16:9 in LFS?

[Bob Smith]

It must be that the FOV is connected to the horizontal width of the screen. So making the screen wider adjusts the FOV so that you lose height instead of gaining width. Just put your FOV up, problem solved.

[steve]

Its already at 100, any higher and everything is all stretcehd out and ghey loooking :(

[Bob Smith]

Yeah, but if you use 100 in widescreen mode, and 90 in 4:3 mode.... your picture get's wider in widescreen mode, hooray!

[Ant]

Bobs right you know. Attached are some screenies, the narrow and wide show the same fov but narrow is 3:4 and wide is 16:9 . The pylon out the right side window is both times on the edge of the screen. Clearly LFS handles the wide screen by stretching the image without adjsuting the fov.


If I bump up the fov from 90 to 100, you get the 100fov attachment, its at 16:9 but show extra info at the sides, the pylon isnt at the edge anymore. :D The narrow pic fits nicly (more or less) ontop and I think this i the desired result .

[Bob Smith]

Those screenies show it up nicely. :)

[KiDCoDEa]

the answer to this thread was already posted.
if u want 16:9 ratio u click show nonsquare resolutions. good luck and i hope u understand what u are doing.
if u need any more specific answer please be specific with your question else this leads nowhere.

[steve]

I do understand what im doing, what I was trying to get across is that the res is not true widescreen, just a clipped screen. If it was true widescreen, I should have a wider field of view, with more FOV I just get a stretced out longer view.

[J.B.]

You are complaining that the FOV is too small and that you don't want more FOV at the same time. :confused: Think about it.

[steve]

Im not complaining at all. Especially about small FOV?

[steve]

bleh just forget I even made this thread

[tailing]

Don't worry steve I hear ya, LFS doesn't really do widescreen properly. Maybe it is all locked into the fov but the point is it probably shouldn't be. Changing the FOV as in the pics posted by Ant changes your relation to the cockpit of the car, if widescreen worked as it should (well as I figure it should ;))this would remain static but you would have extra vision on either side of the screen.
Also if at all possible the actual widescreen 'mode' should have a second option to output an anamorphic ratio.

[J.B.]

Steve and tailing you are both wrong, LFS is right.

Look at this GIF:
http://img282.imageshack.us/img282/3605/animation12xx.gif

This is what you want, right? Now guess how I made it.

One frame was taken at 1024x768 (4:3) with a FOV of 70°. The other frame was taken at 1360x768 (16:9) and a FOV of 86°. They don't match perfect because the correct calculated value for the 16:9 FOV would be 86.0671° which you can't enter in LFS.

So here is what you have to do: if you want to switch from 4:3 to 16:9, change the resolution and change your FOV to:

FOV_WIDE = 2·ATAN ((16/9)/(4/3)·TAN(FOV_NARROW/2))

[Bob Smith]

Funny how some things stay the same shape but others distort.

J.B., how come it picks you up as a demo racer? :S

[the_angry_angel]

Ah, now this explains a strange problem I had before with dual screens! It all makes sense!!!!111oneoneone

[J.B.]

Funny how some things stay the same shape but others distort.

J.B., how come it picks you up as a demo racer? :S

Which shapes do you mean exactly?

I registered a new account for the forums so I could keep my RSC nick. My LFS registered name is SF-Joe but my racer name is also J.B.

[Jimmy Pursey]

Since we already have the FOV task here and I couldn't find anything about this topic elsewhere:

Does anybody know if there are plans to make LFS support dual head setups for NVidia and ATI cards?

Or: does anybody know about how to get LFS to work with a dual head setup?

[the_angry_angel]

You just have to make sure that the utility that comes with the driver (i.e. nview) stretches it across both monitors, iirc.

[Jimmy Pursey]

You just have to make sure that the utility that comes with the driver (i.e. nview) stretches it across both monitors, iirc.


That would be the "horizontal span" that NVidia drivers provide, right?

Now if I activated this with my potential NVidia card (unfortunately I run on ATI atm) wouldn't that interfere with the resolutions I choose in LFS, leading to a horizontally overstretched image (since there are no 8:3 or even 32:9 resolutions in LFS)?

In other words: Wouldn't it be that LFS must provide at least a 8:3 viewport to get an undistorted view across 2 4:3 displays?

[the_angry_angel]

Yup, horizontal span it is :)

Unfortunately its not perfect, as you say :( - I've not had the chance to actually do it with 2 monitors of the same size (or type), so I cant tell how good the effects really are :(

[J.B.]

...since there are no 8:3 or even 32:9 resolutions in LFS...


Maybe you could force such resolutions by editing lfs.cfg?

[KiDCoDEa]

I do understand what im doing, what I was trying to get across is that the res is not true widescreen, just a clipped screen. If it was true widescreen, I should have a wider field of view, with more FOV I just get a stretced out longer view.

u obviously dont understand what you are doing. shame you cant even read what people bother to explain and try to help you.

[dontsimon]

JB, can you explain that equation in my language please? That would be the language of moron :) Thanks.

[steve]

u obviously dont understand what you are doing. shame you cant even read what people bother to explain and try to help you.


so it starts again..

[tristancliffe]

No, it's not the language or moron - it's the language of the educated ;)

[dontsimon]

Whatever language it's in, can you please simplify it so that this uneducated moron can make use of it?

[tristancliffe]

FOV_WIDE = 2·ATAN ((16/9)/(4/3)·TAN(FOV_NARROW/2))

Right, here goes...

The FOV required on a 16:9 screen is given by:

1. Take the FOV you use in 4:3 and divide this number by 2 (e.g. 90/2), and take the tangent of it (tan(45)=1 in my example)
2. Divide 16/9 by 4/3 = 1.333333, and take the atan (inverse tan) of this = 53.13010235
3. Multiply 1. and 2. together, then double it.

So, what FOV do you need in 16:9 format if you use 75 degree in 4:3?

75/2 = 37.5
tan(37.5) = 0.767326988
0.767... x 53.13010235 = 40.76816141
40.768... x 2 = 81.53632281

So 75 degrees at 4:3 equals 81.536 degrees at 16:9

Easy huh. You are now fluent in maths geek (albeit basic maths geek).

[J.B.]

Almost, but a small error. :)

1. Take the FOV you use in 4:3 and divide this number by 2 (e.g. 90/2), and take the tangent of it (tan(45)=1 in my example)
2. Divide 16/9 by 4/3 = 1.333333, and take the atan (inverse tan) of this = 53.13010235
3. Multiply 1. and 2. together, then double it.

The multiplication comes before the ATAN. That would mean 75° --> 91.0843°.

You can use the following in Excel:

=(2*180)/PI()*ARCTAN((16/9)/(4/3)*TAN((A1*PI())/(180*2)))

Then enter your 4:3 FOV in the A1 cell.

EDIT: steve, do you understand it now?

[KiDCoDEa]

EDIT: steve, do you understand it now?

we can only hope.

[dontsimon]

Okay, I nearly understood tristan's explanation, but JB came along and scrambled it all up again for me.

I don't wish to be a bore, but JB, could you re-do the example tristan gave, but done correctly please?

Also, how do I find the Tan or Atan of a number?

I do have an O'level in maths, really . .

:)

[J.B.]

Okay, I nearly understood tristan's explanation, but JB came along and scrambled it all up again for me.
Sorry, I should have cleared it up instead of causing more confusion.

First of all here is the easiest way to get a result. Paste this

(atan(tan((FOV * PI) / (180 * 2)) * ((16 / 9) / (4 / 3))) * 2 * 180) / PI

into a normal Google search field, change the "FOV" to the 4:3 FOV you are using, press Enter and Google will tell you the FOV you need for 16:9. Really.

In case you want to do the calculations yourself here is a guide in tristancliffe-speak: :)

The FOV required on a 16:9 screen is given by:

1.) Take the FOV you use in 4:3 and divide this number by 2 (e.g. 90/2), and take the tangent of it. (=1 in my example)
2.) Divide 16/9 by 4/3 and then multiply with 1.) (= 1.333333)
3.) Take the atan (inverse tan) of 2.) and double it. (= 106.260205)

Also, how do I find the Tan or Atan of a number?
Look for the TAN button on a calculator and make sure the calculator is set to DEG and not RAD. ATAN is usually the same button together with a Shift-type of button.

I hope that clears it up for you. If not, keep asking, we'll get there. :)

[dontsimon]

Thanks. That Google trick is like some kind of spooky magic :)

[tailing]

Yep yep, thinking more about it last night I realised I was wrong and it's just a matter of adjusting the fov correctly. Got mixed up with the differences between tvs and monitors :doh:

Maybe something to aid people upgrading to a widescreen monitor, when you choose a non-square resolution the FOV setting in LFS could have an extra bracketed value to represent the equivalent 4:3 FOV. Would save the non maths people doing these calcs.
Then again probably not worth the time.

[KiDCoDEa]

Maybe something to aid people upgrading to a widescreen monitor, when you choose a non-square resolution the FOV setting in LFS could have an extra bracketed value to represent the equivalent 4:3 FOV. Would save the non maths people doing these calcs.


thats a nice small suggestion.

[tristancliffe]

Arse - all I missed was the location of one double bracket. Maths is SO much harder in this font than if I'd written it on paper, or using MS Equation Editor etc.

I've just spent 10 minutes trying to work out what my error was, and it was teeny and sooooo simple. Grrrr.

[J.B.]

That Google trick is like some kind of spooky magic
Yeah, I like it too. Puts Google another step closer to ruling the world. I use google for quick calculations more than my real calculator. :)

Maybe something to aid people upgrading to a widescreen monitor, when you choose a non-square resolution the FOV setting in LFS could have an extra bracketed value to represent the equivalent 4:3 FOV. Would save the non maths people doing these calcs.
Then again probably not worth the time.

That would make sense but, as you said, it's probably not worth it. I did the calcs just for fun, I don't think people will really go through the hassle. It should be enough to just play with the FOV until you like it.

Maths is SO much harder in this font than if I'd written it on paper, or using MS Equation Editor etc.

Yeah, looks really ugly too. But MS-Equation editor can be quite a pain too. You should have a look at MATHCAD. BTW I've seen equation formatting in forums but don't ask me where or how.

PS: I've magically become S2 Liscenced, Yipee! Thx Victor, I guess.

[dontsimon]

BTW, you can set FOV to 100ths (ie 80.21) by inputting the figure in the cfg.txt. If you need to be that precise.

Because I'm bored I might sit and work them all out with spooky google maths magic. I've done 40 to 90 already . . . yawn . . .

[Shotglass]

Arse - all I missed was the location of one double bracket. Maths is SO much harder in this font than if I'd written it on paper, or using MS Equation Editor etc.

I've just spent 10 minutes trying to work out what my error was, and it was teeny and sooooo simple. Grrrr.

allright ... the equation for all those whose brain is absolutely unable to learn how to read lisp/scheme code :)

http://fed.matheplanet.com/mprender.php?stringid=1358238&mixmod=mix

http://fed.matheplanet.com/mprender.php?stringid=1358242&mixmod=mix

[dontsimon]

What function is a dot?

[Shotglass]

What function is a dot?

multiplication

[jeremysmith]

hey yall

just to let you know that when i tested triple TFT monitors for LFS a few days ago ive noticed that LFS supports those resolutions as well for 3 17 inch monitors. the resolution your gonna be looking at is a massive 3840 x 1024 i was using a Geforce 6600 using dvi with a vga adapter, vga, and s-video to vga. and three samgsung 712n's

this setup is great for seeing more of the left and right side of your cars... although you will get a massive FPS hit, with one monitor i can get around 150+ with three expect it to drop to 60 - 75 fps, depending on your setup

try it out .. its kinda cool