BUG REPORTS : Formula BMW

[Scawen]

Please report any issues you find in the new Formula BMW in this thread.

Try to avoid duplicate bug reports.

[Danas]

Not a big one, but when you're in the cockpit of the new FBM, and you look to either side, you can see through the car a little bit. (see foto) :shrug:

[aroX123]

Wazzup with Internet 2 LFS (game)
and LFS.net?

[Alles]

Not a big one, but when you're in the cockpit of the new FBM, and you look to either side, you can see through the car a little bit. (see foto) :shrug:

thats not a bug. its with all formulas. the camera cuts into a body. so the mesh that is "cuted" by the camera isnt visible.

[mrfell]

cant get fbmw to work as there is no script file, i need to go in the fox first, then change back to fbmw so that sequential script works, btw got a g25!!

[SFL]

The last two lights on the wheel that show rpm are most of the time lit at the same time. I guess they should light up at different rpms?

EDIT: They aren't lit exactly the same time but close enough to make the last light useless.

[joen]

Wazzup with Internet 2 LFS (game)
and LFS.net?
what does that have to do with the Formula BMW?

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=34763

[aroX123]

Sry...
I just ask

[sdrjfd1]

Maybe the brake light ist "working"... :shrug::shy:


http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu/071210/patch2_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg

[AndroidXP]

I guess because it's not a brake light but a rain/fog light? :shrug:

[mike20002]

Same in other open wheelers...

[nikimere]

Maybe the brake light ist "working"... :shrug::shy:


http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu/071210/patch2_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg


Thats a rain light... SS dont have break lights

[duke_toaster]

They are rain lights ...

[PLAYLIFE]

QUESTION:

The car does not have a speed limiter. Is this intentional?

[MAGGOT]

Yes, the FBMW does not have a speed limiter IRL.

[rockclan]

I found some bug.
Its some kind of un-finished picture that shows up when u had a little crash with this car.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5362/111buglfssm3.jpg

[SpikeyMarcoD]

The sides are very high it has a huge blind spot. Can barely see the side even if i move the axis.

[ajp71]

The sides are very high it has a huge blind spot. Can barely see the side even if i move the axis.

The real car suffers from exactly the same issue, it's not a bug in LFS and the limitation of modeling a real car in a simulation is you're stuck with the decisions the designer made even if some of the considerations (safety) aren't relevant in a racing sim./

[Jet_ CZE]

Not a big one, but when you're in the cockpit of the new FBM, and you look to either side, you can see through the car a little bit. (see foto) :shrug:
+ it does the same in bf1

[ghost racer]

One thing I noticed with the new formula BMW, was how much clutch you needed to shift and the time it took to shift between 4th, 5th, 6th gear..

(I tested out others and it wasn't like the new Formula)

I could see the shift time and more clutch needed for lower gears because there is a more drastic gear tooth change between the gear and your flywheel.. But once your in your higher gears just a few teeth will add ALOT more speed to each higher gear. Thus not needing as much clutch or time to get it into the next higher gear.

[tristancliffe]

Don't use the clutch for upshifts then...

[Scawen]

Yes, as in real life you should pull on the gear shifter and while still pulling, momentarily lift your foot off the throttle - the car will change gear quite instantly.

[ghost racer]

Yes, as in real life you should pull on the gear shifter and while still pulling, momentarily lift your foot off the throttle - the car will change gear quite instantly.

yes because the clutch essentially is a flywheel break..

I really do like how the gearbox has more of a delay until your in the gear and how the clutch let into them.. I guess I just thought, you needed a bit more clutch then needed with higher gears, and took awhile to get the gears with closer gear ratio's.

Love the patch :)

[SFL]

yes because the clutch essentially is a flywheel break..

I really do like how the gearbox has more of a delay until your in the gear and how the clutch let into them.. I guess I just thought, you needed a bit more clutch then needed with higher gears, and took awhile to get the gears with closer gear ratio's.

Love the patch :)
?

The clutch isnt used in the fbm..

[KayJay]

Not really a patch issue but a PubStats issue. The FBM isn't displayed in the PB output. Where the car should be it's blank!

The last couple of line from my PB PubStats output shows:

001 FXO 88510 5
500 XFR 106790 16
151 66980 41

[sinbad]

Not a bug, but I'm curious about the setup options. I'm guessing that you can't adjust/swap the differential in a real FBMW in the way you can in LFS, among other things I imagine.
So........why aren't setup options chosen to follow the real cars/series' when every effort is made to make it identical in other ways?

[jayhawk]

Yes, as in real life you should pull on the gear shifter and while still pulling, momentarily lift your foot off the throttle - the car will change gear quite instantly.

Ahhh! Good to know, and good that you have personal experience! :thumb:

[Cue-Ball]

Not a bug, but I'm curious about the setup options. I'm guessing that you can't adjust/swap the differential in a real FBMW in the way you can in LFS, among other things I imagine.
So........why aren't setup options chosen to follow the real cars/series' when every effort is made to make it identical in other ways?This is a problem with pretty much every single car in the game. Hopefully it will be addressed before we hit beta.

[TomM]

In real life, at least in 04 when I ran the series, the differential power and coast settings were locked. I believe it was 40% power and 20% coast. The preload could be adjusted though from 5nm to 30nm if I recall. I'm sure the rules changed slightly as the years went on but thats how it was in 04. There were also fixed gear ratios.

The car is a delight to drive. Top speed seems a bit down though even with very little wing and the downhill run you get at Blackwood. We saw 142mph at Indianapolis and at Road America and that was gear limited in the draft. Bump drafting even at Road America :D


Very nice representation of the car though. Not much power, just enough downforce, extremely late braking, and a very drivable car. LFS version fits that to a T.

[TomM]

Also the clutch in the car is very easy to overheat. Two uses and its essentially overheated and unusable. You'd really have to ride the clutch for a lap to even notice a difference. Now, within seconds you can completely ruin it which isn't very realistic. I've never heard of a clutch on the FBMW going bad from normal use, let alone misuse, and there is definitely some misuse. I used the clutch on downshifts when I raced in 04 (then moved to GT cars and left foot braked, backwards I know) and had zero problems with the clutch.

[ajp71]

Not a bug, but I'm curious about the setup options. I'm guessing that you can't adjust/swap the differential in a real FBMW in the way you can in LFS, among other things I imagine.
So........why aren't setup options chosen to follow the real cars/series' when every effort is made to make it identical in other ways?

I must admit I was disappointed to see another RL car with infinite, a lot really silly setup options. It would have been great if Scawen could have found out from Fortec the real setup options for the car (including increments as well as out right limits) and got some from the Formula Renault for the FOX at the same time. Having a real and new car to lead the way would also mean there would be less grounds for moaning from the growing crowd who apparently got an N confused with an S.

[Cash_FLow]

Not a bug...but just a suggestion the speedo on the FBM shud be a lil bit bigger! Ive compare it with the 3 other car Formula and those r bigger then this one!

I hope this will be fix! :)

[aroX123]

Not a bug...but just a suggestion the speedo on the FBM shud be a lil bit bigger! Ive compare it with the 3 other car Formula and those r bigger then this one!

I hope this will be fix! :)

Whats the bug?

[deggis]

The last two lights on the wheel that show rpm are most of the time lit at the same time. I guess they should light up at different rpms?

EDIT: They aren't lit exactly the same time but close enough to make the last light useless.
It's probably supposed to be that way... I mean if you think real life, two lights lighting up at the same time is easier to see than one light.

[Mako.]

?

The clutch isnt used in the fbm..

ok, so here's a problem for me: how to "throttle blip" with a DFP?

I selected "auto clutch" and had the clutch heat up a copuple times driving on BL in the FBMW.

So, when I lift the gas and upshift, the auto clutch is not used?
hmm, wierd... then, is it used when I TRY to throttle blip?
As in, if you are breaking, and hit the gas, does it clutch in during this? I dont think so, and the only way for me to drive then, is to use the left paddle for the clutch pedal, which sucks.

I think the auto clutch is only used to take off, no? And, now we cant do burnouts! =[ How are we, the ones with the momo's and Driving force Pro supposed to drive now? Can you at least put the auto throttle blip back (if the autoclutch is selected?) thank you scavier!

EDIT: during which lights on the wheel of the formula bmw are we supposed to shift? when it gets all the way, or what? FOX display is better I think.

Sry for bad english I'm really tired right now, lol.

[Ian.H]

Not a bug...but just a suggestion the speedo on the FBM shud be a lil bit bigger! Ive compare it with the 3 other car Formula and those r bigger then this one!

I hope this will be fix! :)

Nothing to fix, that's the way it is :)

http://tk.digiserv.net/tmp/rF/i_tech_datacollection.jpg



Regards,

Ian

[mobiholik]

i dont know is this is right,but is that normal what hapend wiht my FBM ?? watch reply !
bl1 ---> 2. lap

[geeman1]

Nothing to fix, that's the way it is :)That's real cars for you :tilt:

[BrandonAGr]

i dont know is this is right,but is that normal what hapend wiht my FBM ?? watch reply !
bl1 ---> 2. lap

Yeah that looks fine to me, your left side was completely loaded in the turn and you ramped the inside off the curb, causing it to roll.

[mobiholik]

Yeah that looks fine to me, your left side was completely loaded in the turn and you ramped the inside off the curb, causing it to roll.

if you say soo , i wasn't shure is that ok

[mrodgers]

ok, so here's a problem for me: how to "throttle blip" with a DFP?
Throttle blipping is no different than we've been doing it for years, those of us who have been doing it manually. Either you can left foot brake so you have your right foot to do as you please, or you heel-toe like those with a clutch must do. It's simple.

Yes, it is difficult to heel-toe, but you state DFP. What is so difficult about left-foot braking and blipping the throttle with your right foot? I as well as many many others have been doing it for years. Surely you haven't been braking with your right foot with only 2 pedals....

Those of us who are new with a clutch pedal are the ones who should be having difficulties. I can't believe how difficult it is to brake and downshift while blipping the throttle. Heel-toe shifting is taking all my concentration and leaving me with missing and over running my braking points as well as with brake lockup and trips into the sand.

[Toddshooter]

Throttle blipping is no different than we've been doing it for years, those of us who have been doing it manually. Either you can left foot brake so you have your right foot to do as you please, or you heel-toe like those with a clutch must do. It's simple.

Yes, it is difficult to heel-toe, but you state DFP. What is so difficult about left-foot braking and blipping the throttle with your right foot? I as well as many many others have been doing it for years. Surely you haven't been braking with your right foot with only 2 pedals....

Those of us who are new with a clutch pedal are the ones who should be having difficulties. I can't believe how difficult it is to brake and downshift while blipping the throttle. Heel-toe shifting is taking all my concentration and leaving me with missing and over running my braking points as well as with brake lockup and trips into the sand.

I know how to heal toe with a clutch and can do it in a real car...But I don't have a clutch peddle so I need the auto clutch enabled.
The problem is there is no way to blip the throttle with auto clutch when downshifting. There isn't enought neutral time in the shift after you depress the paddle shifter to blip anything. If you keep your foot on the floor the throttle dosen't even register it.

:scratchchHow are others finding this?

[Jordan2007]

Sorry if anyones said,

but why does the clutch slip after about 1-3 laps,all i do is rev.
And when you hit someone they go flying forward,Could you make it so its like bf1,you scoop them up :P

[Jordan2007]

If you use Automatic you can actually change up and down without ur foot off of the pedal And it Changes so much quicker,So Could you make it so U have to take ur foot off of the pedal

People whos driving auto is leaving me standing!


P.S Sorry for double post

[Cue-Ball]

I know how to heal toe with a clutch and can do it in a real car...But I don't have a clutch peddle so I need the auto clutch enabled.
The problem is there is no way to blip the throttle with auto clutch when downshifting. There isn't enought neutral time in the shift after you depress the paddle shifter to blip anything. If you keep your foot on the floor the throttle dosen't even register it.

:scratchchHow are others finding this?You need to hold the paddle or shifter, blip, then release.

[mrfell]

can you automatically create your own script file for the fbmw, for some reason, its not picking up the sequential gear change till i get into the fox and then jump back into the fbmw....

[J.B.]

I think throttle blipping on downshifts should be easier on a racing sequential, even without using the clutch. At the moment it's too restrictive: you can't apply any throttle because then the gearbox won't downshift so you have to wait with the blip until it's too late to be of any use anyway. IMO it would be more realistic if there was more more tolerance for the downshift to work even when you've already initiated the blip. Blipping is supposed to help not hinder downshifting.

[AndroidXP]

can you automatically create your own script file for the fbmw, for some reason, its not picking up the sequential gear change till i get into the fox and then jump back into the fbmw....
Make a copy of FOX.lfs and rename it to FBM.lfs in your LFS\data\script folder ;)

[mrfell]

Make a copy of FOX.lfs and rename it to FBM.lfs in your LFS\data\script folder ;)


Thanks Android, going to check that now!!

EDIT: Woohoo it works

[Cash_FLow]

Nothing to fix, that's the way it is :)

http://tk.digiserv.net/tmp/rF/i_tech_datacollection.jpg



Regards,

Ian

I know but its kinda hard to see our speed and gas percentage on the speedo(the digits r a bit too little)

[brataccas]

heres a bug on that chicane map with the new car,

[img=http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5448/lfs2007121121322115dt3.th.jpg] (http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfs2007121121322115dt3.jpg)

when youre viewing the race from that view, on that straight uphill you see metal poles appear through the tyres on the new BMW, looks horrid :(

[aroX123]

heres a bug on that chicane map with the new car,

[img=http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5448/lfs2007121121322115dt3.th.jpg] (http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfs2007121121322115dt3.jpg)

when youre viewing the race from that view, on that straight uphill you see metal poles appear through the tyres on the new BMW, looks horrid :(
Nice discover

[shiny_red_cobra]

Scawen, I dunno if you noticed this (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=34785) thread, just posting it here for reference.

[Mako.]

Throttle blipping is no different than we've been doing it for years, those of us who have been doing it manually. Either you can left foot brake so you have your right foot to do as you please, or you heel-toe like those with a clutch must do. It's simple.

Yes, it is difficult to heel-toe, but you state DFP. What is so difficult about left-foot braking and blipping the throttle with your right foot? I as well as many many others have been doing it for years. Surely you haven't been braking with your right foot with only 2 pedals....

Those of us who are new with a clutch pedal are the ones who should be having difficulties. I can't believe how difficult it is to brake and downshift while blipping the throttle. Heel-toe shifting is taking all my concentration and leaving me with missing and over running my braking points as well as with brake lockup and trips into the sand.

No, man, I use to have the thing off, and it would work the clutch for me on the downshifts... so I used one foot for driving. Now it doesnt work the clutchon downshifts no more... and I cant do it like I used to be able to in X prime version.

Surely you haven't been braking with your right foot with only 2 pedals....

Dont make assumptions man, that's exaclty how I have been driving in LFS! No thorttle cut, no blip on downshift, and autoclutch till now, braking with my right foot. But, now that the new patch is out, it is all screwed up man. also, with autoclutch, it shouldn't wear/heat/whatever the clutch at ALL! OTher wise, wtf is point of that? lol.

I guess I will need to get a second set of pedals now. Also, I CAN drive, I can heel-toe just fine in real life as well, not kidding.

[Cue-Ball]

also, with autoclutch, it shouldn't wear/heat/whatever the clutch at ALL! OTher wise, wtf is point of that?The purpose of auto-clutch is to depress the clutch so that you can change gears. However, you are still responsible for making sure that the engine revs match the drivetrain speed. Otherwise, the clutch ends up taking the brunt of the damage when it tries to make the two match. Either the tires slip or the clutch does, but the speed differential has to go somewhere.

[sinbad]

Dont make assumptions man, that's exaclty how I have been driving in LFS! No thorttle cut, no blip on downshift, and autoclutch till now, braking with my right foot. But, now that the new patch is out, it is all screwed up man. also, with autoclutch, it shouldn't wear/heat/whatever the clutch at ALL! OTher wise, wtf is point of that? lol.

I guess I will need to get a second set of pedals now. Also, I CAN drive, I can heel-toe just fine in real life as well, not kidding.

I don't know what you think has changed. I have a 2 pedal setup and the only change to my driving is that I now lift the throttle a bit when I up-shift and respect the rev limiter on down-shifts. I'm really lost because you say you used to play with no throttle cut or blip. So you won't be missing either of those. The clutch isn't so fast on downshifts that you have no time to blip the throttle. If you were heel-toeing without auto-blip before, then just the same technique will work with X30.

[Mako.]

well, it shure feels different to me... hmm, it's like, it has way less time to let you blip it....

I actualy tried playing with auto blip once, and was SLOWER than withought it... buy now I'm like, really slow no matter what. Ah, practice practice, practice.:D

[ajp71]

I selected "auto clutch" and had the clutch heat up a copuple times driving on BL in the FBMW.

So, when I lift the gas and upshift, the auto clutch is not used?
hmm, wierd... then, is it used when I TRY to throttle blip?
As in, if you are breaking, and hit the gas, does it clutch in during this? I dont think so, and the only way for me to drive then, is to use the left paddle for the clutch pedal, which sucks.

You do not need to use the clutch on the FBM, or any of the other sequentially shifted race cars, just like you don't IRL. If you turn auto-clutch on in LFS with one of those cars it will simply help you pull away and stop you stalling it. It won't do anything on gear shifts.

[Spangler_CZE]

Actually its not a bug, but its strange,weird and very unreal...
I hote it will be fixed...Maximal FOV in FBM:really:

[SamH]

Actually its not a bug, but its strange,weird and very unreal...
I hote it will be fixed...Maximal FOV in FBM:really:
I suspect that FOV probably suits a triple-head setup. That, or something with a really really wide screen :)

[Spangler_CZE]

Yea, I see now, that its not a problem only with the FBM...

[Ian.H]

I know but its kinda hard to see our speed and gas percentage on the speedo(the digits r a bit too little)

Maybe so, but unlike the others, the FBMW is real (ok, we all know the FO8 is an F3000 and FOX a Formula Renault, but they don't claim to be). This is how they are on an FBMW.. changing them to big mickey mouse displays like the other open-wheelers would both be wrong for the car and possibly upset whoever's involved with this BMW deal as it'd make it look cheap and nasty and non-accurate.

I doubt very much that there's a lot that's really readable on the display sitting in the real thing whilst hurtling around tracks.. there's really no reason to even be looking at it while on the move, is there? Surely people know how many laps worth of fuel they put in before they started.. and that's the only thing that needs to be thought about, IMO :)



Regards,

Ian

[hda]

i'm using this custom cam in the fbm and it feels pretty good

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1219/customviewfbmsk5.jpg

[Rappa Z]

I don't know what happened. I turned around and drove backwards a little, and the clutch engaged going backwards. I turned around and the game said my clutch was off, but the car drove like it was on. After ther race on the SO highway:

[Bob Smith]

OT but:

I suspect that FOV probably suits a triple-head setup. That, or something with a really really wide screen :)
I can't understand why people requested the 120 degree limit to be upped. I mean if people want to use 160 degrees, that's fine, but even on my triple screen setup I only run 100 degrees (similar to 60ish on a single screen), 120 looks weird and 160 is ridiculous even on a 4:1 aspect ratio. :shrug:

/OT

[z3r0c00l]

Not a bug, but I'm curious about the setup options. I'm guessing that you can't adjust/swap the differential in a real FBMW in the way you can in LFS, among other things I imagine.
So........why aren't setup options chosen to follow the real cars/series' when every effort is made to make it identical in other ways?

You order the differential type with the gearbox, either a free diff, or for an extra few hundred quid, you get a powerflow differential. From what I can tell... it's pretty damn adjustable!

Which looks like this:

http://www.hewland-engineering.com/drawings/egt.pdf - page 13

it has 11 friction plates and is adjustable in 3 ways.


The side ring gears angles
have an effect on how much of
the transmitted torque is
converted into sideways
(clamping) force onto the
plates. For example, on the
drive side of the ring gear, 45
degrees transmits less
sideways force than 30
degrees. Likewise on the coast
side of the ring gear, an 80
degree angle will transmit little
or no clamping force onto the
plates, whereas a 45 degree
angle will transmit a much
greater force. The side rings
gear(120) are available with
many different drive/coast
ramp angle combinations.

The second adjustable factor is
how tightly the plate stack is
compressed on assembly (known
as static preload). Included in the
plate stack is a preload spacer
(118). The preload torque is
measured between the side bevel
gears, by holding one side bevel
gear (68) stationary, and
measuring the torque required to
turn the other using tool SK-838-
C. Disc spring (96) provides a
pre-load of 100lbs.ft. The static
pre-load can be altered by rotating
the diff end cap (38). Each rotation
of a tooth alters the preload
by approximately 20lbs.ft.


The final adjustment is simply to
re-order the plate stack so as to
change the number of relatively
rotating faces. The diagram
shows the stack setup with the
maximum 10 working faces.
Standard stack may be shuffled
to give as few as 2 working faces.


Available gear ratios include:

Part Number DESCRIPTION Ratio
FTR-12:38-INT Layshaft integral first gear 3.17
FTR-12:35-INT Layshaft integral first gear 2.92
FTR-12:33-INT Layshaft integral first gear 2.75
FTR-12:31-INT Layshaft integral first gear 2.58
FTR-12:29-INT Layshaft integral first gear 2.42
FTR-14:33-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.36
FTR-13:30-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.31
FTR-15:34-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.27
FTR-15:33-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.20
FTR-15:32-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.13
FTR-15:31-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.07
FTR-15:30-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 2.00
FTR-15:30-STD RATIO 2.00
FTR-15:29-STD RATIO 1.93
FTR-15:29-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.93
FTR-16:30-STD RATIO 1.88
FTR-16:30-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.88
FTR-17:31-STD RATIO 1.82
FTR-17:31-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.82
FTR-15:27-STD RATIO 1.80
FTR-15:27-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.80
FTR-17:30-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.76
FTR-17:30-STD RATIO 1.76
FTR-15:26-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.73
FTR-15:26-STD RATIO 1.73
FTR-17:29-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.71
FTR-17:29-STD RATIO 1.71
FTR-16:27-STD RATIO 1.69
FTR-16:27-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.69
FTR-15:25-STD RATIO 1.67
FTR-15:25-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.67
FTR-16:26-HUB 2nd Gear RATIO 1.63
FTR-16:26-STD RATIO 1.63
FTR-17:27-STD RATIO 1.59
FTR-16:25-STD RATIO 1.56
FTR-17:26-STD RATIO 1.53
FTR-16:24-STD RATIO 1.50
FTR-17:25-STD RATIO 1.47
FTR-16:23-STD RATIO 1.44
FTR-19:27-STD RATIO 1.42
FTR-18:25-STD RATIO 1.39
FTR-19:26-STD RATIO 1.37
FTR-17:23-STD RATIO 1.35
FTR-18:24-STD RATIO 1.33
FTR-19:25-STD RATIO 1.32
FTR-20:26-STD RATIO 1.30
FTR-18:23-STD RATIO 1.28
FTR-19:24-STD RATIO 1.26
FTR-20:25-STD RATIO 1.25
FTR-21:26-STD RATIO 1.24
FTR-18:22-STD RATIO 1.22
FTR-19:23-STD RATIO 1.21
FTR-21:25-STD RATIO 1.19
FTR-23:27-STD RATIO 1.17
FTR-19:22-STD RATIO 1.16
FTR-21:24-STD RATIO 1.14
FTR-24:27-STD RATIO 1.13
FTR-19:21-STD RATIO 1.11
FTR-24:26-STD RATIO 1.08
FTR-18:19-STD RATIO 1.06
FTR-25:26-STD RATIO 1.04
FTR-24:24-STD RATIO 1.00
FTR-25:24-STD RATIO 0.96
FTR-26:24-STD RATIO 0.92
FTR-27:24-STD RATIO 0.89

And for good measure, their reccomendations on changing gear with a sequential:

Successful up-shifting, (defined as fast and non dog-damaging) will be achieved by fully moving the dog ring as rapidly as possible from one gear to the next, preferably with the engine's driving load removed until the shift is completed. (The opposite is true of a synchromesh gearbox as used in passenger cars, where slow movement helps). It should be remembered that it is not possible to damage the dogs when fully engaged (in gear). The damage can only take place when initiating contact during a shift, (the `danger zone`) therefore this element must be made as short as possible. If a driver moves the gear lever slowly, or if the linkage is not rigid and effective, dog wear will occur. We always recommend lightweight yet solid rod linkage, not cables ideally.

I list below the different methods of up-shifting that are used in racing most commonly. The best at the top, the worst at the bottom:

Automated (semi automated). The movement of the dog ring is powered and the engine is cut / re-instated in a co-ordinated manner. Gear-shifts take milliseconds. This system produces zero dog wear when set up well. It is not applicable to most cars, but it illustrates that speed of shift is a good thing.

Manual with engine cut. This system is almost as good as an automated one as long as the driver pulls the lever very quickly. Again it is not applicable to many cars, but it illustrates that speed of shift is a good thing. A `cheat` version of this is to shift on the engine rev limiter, which can work well. With this system it is especially important to move the lever ultra fast, otherwise the engine will be reinstated during partial dog engagement, causing damage. The damage can usually be felt by the driver.

Manual.
Best method: With no assistance from the engine management, the driver must lift off the throttle sufficiently to allow the dog ring to be pulled out of engagement. He should then stay off the throttle long enough to allow the dog ring to engage with the next gear. In practice, the driver can move the gear lever faster than he can move his foot off and back on to the throttle. Therefore the effective method is to apply load to the gear lever with your hand and then lift the throttle foot off and back on to the pedal as fast as physically possible. In lifting your foot, the loaded gear lever will almost involuntarily flick to the next gear before the foot is re-applied to the throttle.
Another method is to load the gear lever with your hand, stay flat on the throttle and dab the clutch to release the dog ring. The overall effect on the gear shift is similar to the above method, but clutch wear may become a big issue.
The worst method (most destructive and definitely slowest) is to attempt to change gear in a `passenger car / synchromesh` way, i.e. lifting off the throttle, dipping the clutch, moving the gear lever, letting the clutch up and re-instating the throttle. The method causes unnecessary clutch wear, does absolutely nothing to help come out of gear and usually causes dog wear whilst engaging the next gear. This wear is due to several reasons. Firstly, it is impossible for a driver to co-ordinate the complicated sequence of all five physical movements accurately. Consequently the engagement dogs often find themselves engaging whilst the throttle is applied. The lever is usually pulled more slowly as it was not pre-loaded, lengthening the `danger zone`.

Successful down-shifting, has similar rules applied regarding speed of shift. Unloading the dogs is done in the opposite manner obviously. Whilst braking, the dogs must be unloaded by either touching the throttle pedal or- my preferred method- by dipping the clutch. However, one sharp dab of clutch or throttle is appropriate per shift. Continued pressure on either will cause dog damage for different reasons. `Blipping the throttle` just before engagement is advisable if the rev drops between gears are over 1300 rpm, as this will aid engagement and stabilise the car.

This is a subject which can be much expended on, but I feel that these are the basics, which I hope are of use.

[ajp71]

I doubt very much that there's a lot that's really readable on the display sitting in the real thing whilst hurtling around tracks.. there's really no reason to even be looking at it while on the move, is there? Surely people know how many laps worth of fuel they put in before they started.. and that's the only thing that needs to be thought about, IMO :)


I'd hope most drivers have a rough idea because there would be no fuel gauge on the real thing (and I very much doubt it would even have a warning light). IRL the display would be used to display laptimes and engine instrumentation, something we don't have to worry about in LFS (yet) :)

You order the differential type with the gearbox, either a free diff, or for an extra few hundred quid, you get a powerflow differential. From what I can tell... it's pretty damn adjustable!


The actual Formula BMW gearbox/clutch/diff will either be fixed in the regulations (most likely) or even a sealed unit. A real Formula BMW racer has already posted that they had fixed power and coast settings. Whatever you can do with the LSD though the viscous and locked differentials still need to go.

[J.B.]

[on downshifts] unloading the dogs is done in the opposite manner obviously. Whilst braking, the dogs must be unloaded by either touching the throttle pedal or- my preferred method- by dipping the clutch.

I don't quite understand why this is the case but at least it supports my claim that it should be easier to blip on downshifts than it is at the moment in LFS.

[tristancliffe]

If you're not pressing the clutch, then you can't blip the revs (the engine is connected to the wheels, so the blip has nowhere to go). I'm sure you understand that bit.

The touching the throttle (on the clutchless downshift) isn't to blip the revs, but to unload the dogs. In the few milliseconds the shift takes you either hope the revs are close enough for the dogs to engage (and hope it doesn't snatch the rear wheels), or your force it in and lock your wheels, or you get a horrid grinding noise as your dogs get smaller, and the oil in your 'box get's slightly more metally. But if successful (which with close gearing and race rubber it usually is) it's a very quick way to shift gear.

However, using the clutch will provide a time to blip the throttle, allowing dogs, engine, wheels and the road to all be going at the same speed, and thus being easier on everything (and not spinning you round as much). A good jab on the clutch, with a nice big heel&toe movement, will see a lovely gearchange nearly every time, with very little time penalty.

I think that's right. Correct me if I'm not.

[J.B.]

My problem with the above quote is that touching the throttle while braking would IMO increase the load on the dogs, not decrease it. And the original complaint I had was that if you touch the throttle before the downshift in LFS then you can't change gear.

AFAICT there can only be three posibilities for clutchless sequential downshifting:

1) Blipping on downshift is impossible without clutch.

2) Blipping needs to be timed to take place in exactly the split second in which neither gear is engaged.

3) The gear will disengage even if some throttle is being applied so the blip can be initiated a teeny little bit before moving the gear lever.

I know 1 isn't true, 2 seems impossible because there is no time so that only leaves 3. LFS is at 2. And if I understand you correctly you are somewhere between 1 and 2.

[tristancliffe]

My problem with the above quote is that touching the throttle while braking would IMO increase the load on the dogs, not decrease it. And the original complaint I had was that if you touch the throttle before the downshift in LFS then you can't change gear.

AFAICT there can only be three posibilities for clutchless sequential downshifting:

1) Blipping on downshift is impossible without clutch.

2) Blipping needs to be timed to take place in exactly the split second in which neither gear is engaged.

3) The gear will disengage even if some throttle is being applied so the blip can be initiated a teeny little bit before moving the gear lever.

I know 1 isn't true, 2 seems impossible because there is no time so that only leaves 3. LFS is at 2. And if I understand you correctly you are somewhere between 1 and 2.

When you are braking, the gears are being driven by the road. When you touch (blip) the throttle, won't the engine begin to drive them, with the result that the dogs are momentarily unloaded? Or do I need to sit down and think about why the throttle touch (blip) a) works and b) is recommended by Hewland themselves.

[J.B.]

I did sit down and what I came up with is that the brakes and the engine are playing tug of war.

In the higher gear the wheels are trying to slow down the engine so extra throttle will increase gear load. Then once the lower gear is engaged the wheels are trying to accelerate the engine (because of the sudden change of speed ratio) so increasing throttle will reduce gear load.

Right? :tilt:

EDIT: or actually it depends on how fast the revs of the engine want to drop when you come off the throttle compared to how fast the brakes want them to drop. If the engine wants to drop fast (low inertia) then a touch of throttle will unload the gears. If the engine is slow in losing revs (high inertia) then throttle will only make things worse.

So is engine inertia the major factor in defining how hard/easy it is to blip on downshifts?

[tristancliffe]

Erm, yes.

Sod it, just use the clutch on downshifts :p

[GabbO]

I know but its kinda hard to see our speed and gas percentage on the speedo(the digits r a bit too little)

And it is really hard to hold 80 in the pits without limiter :P
I know it's so in real, but it's a bit stupid that i have to lean forward every time i have to pit :)
Well, we'll see..

[tristancliffe]

Hold 75 then, so you have a little more margin for error?

[GabbO]

I ment it's hard to hold the speed, if you can't read the speedo :P
I can hold the speed with all other cars without limiter, thats not my point :)

[tristancliffe]

Look at the rev counter - if that stays steady too, then speed is steady... It's EASY (in a Red Dwarf virus voice)

[z3r0c00l]

Borrow a naff motorbike and have a go at downshifting without the clutch - it's a great way to learn!

If you are braking on a corner approach, the engine is trying to go slower than the wheels, it resists being turned over as there is not enough fuel going in to explode and expand to drive it. If you are at zero throttle, the engine will always by trying to turn at idling rpm, much slower than the rpm it will actually be going unless you've left your downshift 2 weeks too late.

If you blip with the clutch engaged, that is, connected to the drive shaft, there is a transition from the engine slowing the rear wheels, to trying to accelerate them. In order to go through this transition, bang in the middle there is a point where the dogs are completely unloaded, and it is this point that allows the higher gear to be disengaged.

As the gearbox parts moves, the revs climb from the blip, and if you time it right, the dogs mesh with the new lower ratio at the right rpm for the wheel/gearbox speed.

This is a fine art, one that can be expensive to earn.

I will always go for mechanical sympathy where practically available because I believe it pays off not only as a calm, controlled driving style, but looks after the car as well.

If you're downshifting on a corner approach as you always are when time matters, it doesn't matter if your shift is fractionally slower because you don't need the engine to slow down the car, that's what the brakes are for.

That's what it feels like to me anyway.



lol at red dwarf reference

[TomM]

If you're not pressing the clutch, then you can't blip the revs (the engine is connected to the wheels, so the blip has nowhere to go). I'm sure you understand that bit.

The touching the throttle (on the clutchless downshift) isn't to blip the revs, but to unload the dogs. In the few milliseconds the shift takes you either hope the revs are close enough for the dogs to engage (and hope it doesn't snatch the rear wheels), or your force it in and lock your wheels, or you get a horrid grinding noise as your dogs get smaller, and the oil in your 'box get's slightly more metally. But if successful (which with close gearing and race rubber it usually is) it's a very quick way to shift gear.

However, using the clutch will provide a time to blip the throttle, allowing dogs, engine, wheels and the road to all be going at the same speed, and thus being easier on everything (and not spinning you round as much). A good jab on the clutch, with a nice big heel&toe movement, will see a lovely gearchange nearly every time, with very little time penalty.

I think that's right. Correct me if I'm not.

Not quite. You can blip to raise the revs while passing from one gear to the next. I've done it like that on every sequential I've driven. It clearly is a timing thing but it can be done.

Just for example. This is GT2 Porsche 911 RSR in a gearbox that is said from the factory has to be downshifted which the clutch. Clearly not the case and any sequential gearbox can be downshifted without the clutch and when done properly is no harsher on the gearbox than using the clutch on the downshifts.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2609/motecsn6.jpg

In short, I'm able to blip on the downshifts right now without the clutch with no problem and no ill-effects on the clutch.

[fizzer]

Not quite. You can blip to raise the revs while passing from one gear to the next. I've done it like that on every sequential I've driven. It clearly is a timing thing but it can be done.


But that rev raise isn't isn't during "neutral" time on the gearbox is it? The revs come up with the ratio change, but it seems to me there'd be a spike in engine braking force as the revs come up.

I haven't driven a race car sequential, but on a motorcycle its very noticble and varys greatly by the rpm difference between the gears.

Example, clutchless downshift while crusing in town, 5k to 6k ish rpm - smooth as butter. Load the shift lever, blip the throttle and it snicks right into gear.

10k to 14k ish rpm clutchless downshift in the same manner - not pleasant as it takes a lot more time and force in the form of back torque to bring the revs up. I much prefer to use the clutch, and do a big old blip while I shift. Also helps that if I don't blip enough, the slipper clutch sorts it out ;)

[SpaceMarineITA]

@Scawen:

I think there is something strange with cambers on FBMW:

for obtaining a small negative "real camber" u have to set a quite high positive "setup camber".

I don't know if this is a wanted thing or not, so is better to check it if is all ok.


In old versions of lfs the differences between real and setup cambers were not so big.

[TomM]

But that rev raise isn't isn't during "neutral" time on the gearbox is it? The revs come up with the ratio change, but it seems to me there'd be a spike in engine braking force as the revs come up.

I haven't driven a race car sequential, but on a motorcycle its very noticble and varys greatly by the rpm difference between the gears.

Example, clutchless downshift while crusing in town, 5k to 6k ish rpm - smooth as butter. Load the shift lever, blip the throttle and it snicks right into gear.

10k to 14k ish rpm clutchless downshift in the same manner - not pleasant as it takes a lot more time and force in the form of back torque to bring the revs up. I much prefer to use the clutch, and do a big old blip while I shift. Also helps that if I don't blip enough, the slipper clutch sorts it out ;)

That spike in RPM that corresponds to the throttle blip is the motor revving up from the blip and not the gear change. If it were the gear change you'd see the steering much more active than it is keeping the car straight plus the RPM's would maintain at a higher RPM for longer and come down more gradually. The spike in RPM's is nearly identical ascending as it is descending.

Not sure if this is what you meant, but the braking pressure measured is purely front brake pressure. How you downshift would have no effect on that measurement.

Also remember that the brakes are slowing the car down more than the engine could. So you won't feel any change in deceleration from the downshifts since the braking generates far more G forces than purely downshifting could. The only difference that makes is a brake balance in the car. If you make your downshifts such that you keep the RPM's very high you'll shifting a braking balance in the car to the rear some.

[J.B.]

In short, I'm able to blip on the downshifts right now without the clutch with no problem and no ill-effects on the clutch.

This means you agree with me that in LFS blipping is too hard/impossible, yes?:shy:

[Ian.H]

I'd hope most drivers have a rough idea because there would be no fuel gauge on the real thing (and I very much doubt it would even have a warning light). IRL the display would be used to display laptimes and engine instrumentation, something we don't have to worry about in LFS (yet) :)

True. I can't remember what all of the actual display readout corresponds to in the image I posted.. I just remember the overall look as I spent a while time studying many hi-res photos of the FBMW cockpit when I started (but never completed) the cockpit for the rF FBMW mod, although Nick modelled the actual wheel (very nicely too :) ).

Maybe the pit crew would be on the blower informing of such data if it was required, but I've never watched an FBMW race, so no idea what kind of pit technology / communication may be used in that series :)



Regards,

Ian

[tristancliffe]

@Scawen:

I think there is something strange with cambers on FBMW:

for obtaining a small negative "real camber" u have to set a quite high positive "setup camber".

I don't know if this is a wanted thing or not, so is better to check it if is all ok.


In old versions of lfs the differences between real and setup cambers were not so big.

Scawen has probably defined the real car's setup camber as +-0 in LFS. You alter it by small increments over the base setup.

[r_b_l]

Probably not a bug, but maybe a feature that needs improving - you can flat-shift in the FBM with using "manual ignition cut". I mean hold gear-change and then 2 times tap the ignition button. Result is much faster gear change than with normal throttle lift, at least for mouse driver with 2.5 button rate :shrug: (of course if you miss the second tap you will loose some speed until you notice you have engine off:schwitz:)

Or can you do this with the real car?

[TomM]

This means you agree with me that in LFS blipping is too hard/impossible, yes?:shy:

No I'd say the downshifts at the moment are as they should be. If anything the upshifts require you to be far too precise. That I would attribute to pulling on a switch where you either are 100% trying for a gearchange with the button or not at all. In real life you are putting a load on the gear lever and obviously we don't have the hardware to simulate that.

Hey Ian :)

The Dash gave very basic info. Water temperature, oil temperature, oil pressure, fuel pressure, lap time, rpm, and speed over two pages. The dash is very basic and was essentially impossible to read at a glance. I can't actually recall if the lap times were listed. I feel like they were and each time you tripped the timing beacon the dash would display in bigger numbers your lap time for a given period but I'm not sure.

Also, regarding the ignition cut 'trick'. That should work theoretically but I doubt anyone has ever done that in real life.

The car should also shift gears when bouncing off the limiter too as that is a trick some drivers used for a faster shift. However, it was inconsistent and sometimes the shift wouldn't happen right away resulting in losing time sitting on the limiter waiting for the car to shift. Again, any car with a hard ignition cut for an RPM limiter, like the FBMW has, can be shifting without lifting by shifting and touching the limiter at the same time.

[J.B.]

No I'd say the downshifts at the moment are as they should be.

Ah well, I guess that settles it, I just suck. :dazzersmi Thanks for the input. If you're bored maybe you could upload an spr replay of how a real racing driver clutchless blip-downshifts a FBMW to help us noobs.

[Linsen]

If anything the upshifts require you to be far too precise. That I would attribute to pulling on a switch where you either are 100% trying for a gearchange with the button or not at all. In real life you are putting a load on the gear lever and obviously we don't have the hardware to simulate that.
True, we don't have the hardware to simulate the proper feel of a sequential gear shift lever, but I don't see where you have to be precise on upshifts in LFS. You can just pull the lever whenever you like, wait till the optimal shifting point and then lift the throttle a tad. Gear changed.

[TomM]

True, we don't have the hardware to simulate the proper feel of a sequential gear shift lever, but I don't see where you have to be precise on upshifts in LFS. You can just pull the lever whenever you like, wait till the optimal shifting point and then lift the throttle a tad. Gear changed.

Yes but that is very unrealistic. It doesn't work that way in real life. You can't preload the gearbox like that and magically shift whenever the throttle is cracked momentarily. The effort required to keep the gearbox from trying to pull itself out of one gear into the next isn't enough to actually shift cleanly. Again, I think part of the difficulty in shifting up is the fact we have to use a switch to shift instead of a lever allowing a variable load. I do shift as you say for the higher gears but it feels wrong to me to be holding the shifter back for 4 or 5 seconds while waiting for the revs to climb. It is faster this way unfortunately as your lift can be much smaller.

[tristancliffe]

Well, I guess you could. But only if you're really good friends with your mechanic(s), and have shares in a bearing company, a dog ring company, Hewland (or equivalent) etc.

[Thorvertonian]

Yes but that is very unrealistic. It doesn't work that way in real life. You can't preload the gearbox like that and magically shift whenever the throttle is cracked momentarily

That's how I shift gears on my sports bike, and the FBM uses a bikes gearbox, so I would say that it's gear changes are actually performing properly!

[StewartFisher]

Yes but that is very unrealistic. It doesn't work that way in real life. You can't preload the gearbox like that and magically shift whenever the throttle is cracked momentarily. The effort required to keep the gearbox from trying to pull itself out of one gear into the next isn't enough to actually shift cleanly. Again, I think part of the difficulty in shifting up is the fact we have to use a switch to shift instead of a lever allowing a variable load. I do shift as you say for the higher gears but it feels wrong to me to be holding the shifter back for 4 or 5 seconds while waiting for the revs to climb. It is faster this way unfortunately as your lift can be much smaller.Why can't you just time your throttle lift to match the gear change pull? I don't understand why people find this difficult. Maybe 5+ years training in GPL is now paying off in LFS!

[SamH]

That's how I shift gears on my sports bike, and the FBM uses a bikes gearbox, so I would say that it's gear changes are actually performing properly!
It's been covered already, I think.. the Hewland is not a bike gearbox, it's a specialized race gearbox.

J.B's tug-of-war scenario sounds like a reasonable analogy to me. When the relative strain in the tug of war between engine and gearbox is equalised (both teams are moving in the same direction at equal speed, or not moving at all.. no strain on the rope), a smooth clutchless shift becomes easy. Blipping the throttle on downshift causes the engine and the gearbox to become synchronously forced.. the change becomes possible after the blip, as the engine down-revs [edit-not down revs, but would if it were free-running] briefly in synch with the gearbox's dogs' deceleration.. allowing a window of opportunity to get out of one gear and smoothly into another while both engine revs and dogs rotation are sufficiently aligned. It all happens in a tiny space of time, but if you're leaning on the lever and the lever's travel is short, it should happen with a satisfyingly firm rubbery thunk :)

[TomM]

Well, I guess you could. But only if you're really good friends with your mechanic(s), and have shares in a bearing company, a dog ring company, Hewland (or equivalent) etc.

:nod: :D

That's how I shift gears on my sports bike, and the FBM uses a bikes gearbox, so I would say that it's gear changes are actually performing properly!

I do too slightly when doing standing starts on dirt bikes but I also don't put maximum force on the shifter. I apply a small amount of load first and then lift slightly along with pulling harder on the shifter. I think the small amount of load is starting the gear change as I lift off the throttle slightly and therefore I don't have to time my upshift exactly at the right time. Right now, LFS is putting essentially 100% force on the gearbox system and the second the throttle is cracked, the gear shift is made cleanly. If I didn't make that second move to complete the upshift in real life, usually I get a lot of chatter in the gearbox from not fully disengaging the current gear or not fully engaging the next gear.

Why can't you just time your throttle lift to match the gear change pull? I don't understand why people find this difficult. Maybe 5+ years training in GPL is now paying off in LFS!

Yes, and that's how I do it now for every shift but the shift from 5th to 6th and 90% of the time I get it right. I've adapted to what works best with LFS and it's becoming less of an issue but I'm pointing it out now that there is something different about how you have to upshift and the timing required. It's not all LFS fault as the hardware doesn't function exactly as it would in real life. In fact it's probably impossible to do it any other way without introducing other compromises along the way.

[Linsen]

Yes but that is very unrealistic. It doesn't work that way in real life. You can't preload the gearbox like that and magically shift whenever the throttle is cracked momentarily.

I though that was pretty much what a Hewland Sequential Gearbox designer described when talking about how to shift up:

Therefore the effective method is to apply load to the gear lever with your hand and then lift the throttle foot off and back on to the pedal as fast as physically possible. In lifting your foot, the loaded gear lever will almost involuntarily flick to the next gear before the foot is re-applied to the throttle.

Surely a real sequential gear lever will feel a lot different from this little plastic thingy on my DFP, but the process is the same and as long as we don't have proper sequential ffb shifters it's as close as it can get, I'd say.

EDIT: Sorry, I overlooked your last post, Tom. I think I get what your problem is now. It's that you virtually put full force on the gear lever in LFS before lifting the throttle, while in rL you'd only load up the lever a little before lifting the throttle. Still, I think the process is the same and it's as close to reality as we can come with the current hardware. But that's easy for me to say as I've never driven a sequential in rL ;) (except on a motorbike, but there I always clutched).

[tristancliffe]

Yes, you lightly load the lever *just before you shift, maybe for half a second at most*, and as you feel the lever move when the dogs unload you pull a bit harder to get the change, and then ease off so as not to ram it home too hard. We don't have that ability with current hardware, but you can 'simulate' the preload a bit. Unfortunately, we can also sit there preloading it all the time which you wouldn't get away with in reality.

[Linsen]

Yes, you lightly load the lever *just before you shift, maybe for half a second at most*, and as you feel the lever move when the dogs unload you pull a bit harder to get the change, and then ease off so as not to ram it home too hard. We don't have that ability with current hardware, but you can 'simulate' the preload a bit. Unfortunately, we can also sit there preloading it all the time which you wouldn't get away with in reality.
Yep, got it, little bit of cross-posting going on there.

But that's basically how I do it in LFS as far as timing goes, except that I apply a constant force to the lever, and I don't feel that I have to be overly precise in that. The good thing is, that my hand is faster than my foot, so I think "shift" and concentrate on my hand pulling the lever. My foot will automatically lift a tad later than I pull and therfore it's timed just right.

[SpaceMarineITA]

Scawen has probably defined the real car's setup camber as +-0 in LFS. You alter it by small increments over the base setup.

It should not be in that way, for being simulative 0 degree on real car should be 0 degree on lfs car

[Bob Smith]

It should not be in that way, for being simulative 0 degree on real car should be 0 degree on lfs car
You forget you do not set the camber directly, only the camber offset. Wheel camber is dynamic, your setup adjustment is not. It makes sense for 0 camber, with the given default set, to give a (static) live camber that matches with the real car.

[ghost racer]

?

The clutch isnt used in the fbm..

I use a mouse with a sequential shifter (Mouse scroller)

I tested out the FBM, and I am not able to shift unless my car has fully let off the throttle, then I am only able to upshift in the FBM.

I tested out the BF1 and I can upshift no problem while having the throttle down.

Downshifting is fine in the FBM.


However, I've been getting strange results with other cars downshifting (Non pattle shifted cars).

Only with the clutch fully depressed... and I can't push the throttle past a certain limit. Then it will allow me to downshift.

I've also posted the error that I can't downshift only unless I have the clutch fully depressed. I also can't downshift without using a clutch. Again this error does not afftect the FBM

I think this could be along the same lines of the glitch I'm getting.

[SFL]

I use a mouse with a sequential shifter (Mouse scroller)

I tested out the FBM, and I am not able to shift unless my car has fully let off the throttle, then I am only able to upshift in the FBM.

I tested out the BF1 and I can upshift no problem while having the throttle down.

Downshifting is fine in the FBM.

The FBM has a manual sequential gearbox. That means the clutch isn't used and you have to ease of the throttle when shifting up (and, irl, blipping when shifting down)

The BF1 has a semi-automatic sequential gearbox wich means throttle cutting and shifting are done with paddles.

However, I've been getting strange results with other cars downshifting (Non pattle shifted cars).

Only with the clutch fully depressed... and I can't push the throttle past a certain limit. Then it will allow me to downshift.

I've also posted the error that I can't downshift only unless I have the clutch fully depressed. I also can't downshift without using a clutch. Again this error does not afftect the FBM

I think this could be along the same lines of the glitch I'm getting.
When shifting a H-shifter (unless it's a dogbox one) you allways need to use the clutch to change gear.

If anything in this post is incorrect correct me please!

[(Est)Jurlak]

In my server and the FBM falls under ground , and there is replay :
www.hot.ee/jurlak/hacker.mpr (http://www.hot.ee/jurlak/hacker.mpr)

[-V-Max-]

and lets get on with some bugs..

After a race today I had no more fuel left so I was just standing on the track with the engine off. Somebody hit me quite hard from behind and my car flipped, when flipped over EVERY movement of ANY (steering, throttle, brake) axis of my controller would magically make my car go around 80kmh. (still upside down). My wheels turned, also rpm went up.

Cya, and congrats on the new the car, it's a winner!

[Bob Smith]

-V-Max- - Got a replay of that? If so, post it!

[Scawen]

@Scawen:

I think there is something strange with cambers on FBMW:

for obtaining a small negative "real camber" u have to set a quite high positive "setup camber".

I don't know if this is a wanted thing or not, so is better to check it if is all ok.


In old versions of lfs the differences between real and setup cambers were not so big.

It should not be in that way, for being simulative 0 degree on real car should be 0 degree on lfs carThis is an error in the Italian translation (and some others I think). Not a bug in LFS.

In the English version, it says "camber adjust" in the setup screen, not just "camber". Setup camber adjustments are relative to those in the default setup.

The real BMW default setup has a lot of negative camber so with this car if you want a bit less negative camber you will use a positive "camber adjust".

I also adjusted the FOX to have some more negative camber in the default setup, so FOX setups should be adjusted as well.

[jayhawk]

This only happens for me with the BMW, not any other cars. Check out the side mirrors. This is only if I have real mirrors turned off, virtual on.

[Gabkicks]

did you minimize and maximize and see it like this? i find if i pit, then come out of the pits, it goes away.. but it happens to me with all cars (ever since s2) and i have real mirrors on...

[cryos2k5]

Folks from racing with many sequential gearboxes in RL Sequential Boxes are designed to take the brunt:

E.g With 4WD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtc97gYiIwA

E.g With RWD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QovPibOqQyc

e.g with FWD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ1UvXeKLRE

However dog boxes are designed that they should be clutched and blipped.

[jayhawk]

did you minimize and maximize and see it like this? i find if i pit, then come out of the pits, it goes away.. but it happens to me with all cars (ever since s2) and i have real mirrors on...

Yes, actually.

Sorry to intrude upon your time, Scawen. :)

[kompa]

i don't think you should be able to see the virtual clocks when glancing 45/90 degrees

[Chrisuu01]

Some times in 3rd and 4th gear the auto cluch turns of,

and i have to pres the clutch button

Its a preety minor bug but needs fixing thow:shrug:

[geeman1]

When shifting a H-shifter (unless it's a dogbox one) you allways need to use the clutch to change gear.No you don't. You can change gears in a H-gearbox without clutch.

[DeKo]

No you don't. You can change gears in a H-gearbox without clutch.
You can but trying to do it properly at racing speed would be a pain in the arse.

[Yaamboo]

You can but trying to do it properly at racing speed would be a pain in the arse.

You only need to match the revs to do it in LFS, so it works like in real life :) Takes some time for them to drop though.

[sinbad]

Some times in 3rd and 4th gear the auto cluch turns of,

and i have to pres the clutch button

Its a preety minor bug but needs fixing thow:shrug:

What autoclutch? The car doesn't require the clutch to be depressed when you change gear. Just lift the throttle enough whilst holding the change up paddle.

[mickyc30]

hey guys is this a bug? id say it would have to be, i went into the server and jumped in my FBM and this crazy stuff started happening
44386
so i got into XRG and it was fine, got into XFG and it was fine to, so i got back into FBM and it happend again?
just thought id show you.
and yesterday i got into my XFG and all the interior and wheel eas plain white? so i exited LFS and tried again and it was ok
cheers Michael :thumb:

[Mikkel Petersen]

hey guys is this a bug? id say it would have to be, i went into the server and jumped in my FBM and this crazy stuff started happening
44386
so i got into XRG and it was fine, got into XFG and it was fine to, so i got back into FBM and it happend again?
just thought id show you.
and yesterday i got into my XFG and all the interior and wheel eas plain white? so i exited LFS and tried again and it was ok
cheers Michael :thumb:
way too many arrows in way too many directions. :rolleyes2

[mickyc30]

lokay!

i love lamp

[AndroidXP]

lokay!

i love lamp
You don't make any sense. Can you please try and post like a normal human being? :really:

E: \/\/\/ Is it really necessary to spam this bug report thread?

[z3r0c00l]

http://www.snorgtees.com/images/ILoveLamp_Fullpic_1.gif








In other news -

http://m-kobayashi.cocolog-nifty.com/data/images3/051212-2.jpg

[shiny_red_cobra]

Haha Android got pwned!

[mickyc30]

Haha Android got pwned!

He he he he, but seriously wats with my pic? crazy? and android clearly you havnt seen anchorman.
but enough of that, the mirror thing is quite strange, and with the speedo, it started of bright orange, then graduly got whiter and whiter till you couldnt see reving, or what gear you were in, and the mirrors wen crazy?

[shiny_red_cobra]

Here's what I think the problem is. I think it's your computer; I don't think it can handle the higher-res FBM textures, that's why they're white. But the fact that in the XFG and XRG it's fine means that it can handle the lower-res textures, but not the higher-res ones.
:shrug:
I dunno, this could be the problem. It would be nice if you could try on another computer and see if you still have the problem.

[mickyc30]

:O 2gb ram? Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTX 350gb hd? i doubt its my computer for some reason

[chanoman315]

look at that orange thing in the tyres... :shrug:

[Rodrigo-DK]

Excuse my English. The tires of the new FBM was used little pressure starts to leave much smoke ja in the 1 st curve, and continues increasing the size of smoke.
That aocntece when joined with the x34 server in the x33. :shrug:

[joen]

Excuse my English. The tires of the new FBM was used little pressure starts to leave much smoke ja in the 1 st curve, and continues increasing the size of smoke.
That aocntece when joined with the x34 server in the x33. :shrug:

This problem was fixed in X35 :) (see the patch thread)

[Rodrigo-DK]

This problem was fixed in X35 :) (see the patch thread)

:thumb:

[Rodrigo-DK]

Now in the x35 the smoke was a little weak in relation to the LFS X10. :(

[jayhawk]

look at that orange thing in the tyres... :shrug:

Oh. That is just simulated squirrel guts. Damn things ALWAYS run out onto the road at the last minute...

[mxpxun]

i dont know is this was mentioned , bet still i will say that formula's speedometer is to small, i cant see what speed i am going, i use 1024x768 32bit 75hz rez

[AndroidXP]

i dont know is this was mentioned , bet still i will say that formula's speedometer is to small, i cant see what speed i am going, i use 1024x768 32bit 75hz rez
This will not be changed, as the FBMW wheel interface will stay true to it's real life counterpart. Guess you'll have to live with it :shrug:

[evosports]

Excuse my English. The tires of the new FBM was used little pressure starts to leave much smoke ja in the 1 st curve, and continues increasing the size of smoke.
That aocntece when joined with the x34 server in the x33. :shrug:

they shoulda kept it in...all we need is textures that are duller looking and then we have a rain mod :scratchch