Mekanik's cheats need a solution

[TRM.13]

:shrug:


No online times done with this kind of cheat!
No falses HLVC!

Mekanik only in offline mode!

:bananadea


Other ways give us to NFS...

[Kashopi]

I think the devs are working on an improved hotlap checker in LFSWorld to prevent "accidents" like the recent ones.
Otherwise the competition is over.

[Scawen]

If anyone uploads a cheat hotlap, it will not replay when you try to run it. Then, after this is reported, that person will be banned from uploading hotlaps.

[Barroso]

maybe check for oos after the upload is done? but anyway its just plain stupidity to upload laps like this, its cool if you want yourself to be known as "banned" from hotlapping.

[RacingSimFan]

It will take vigilance on our part to make sure all WR laps are checked because, and i'm just speaking for myself, if I were to cheat on hotlaps, I would not do so in such an obvious way as the person who cheated on FO8/KY Oval did.

Hypothetically, if I had the desire to cheat in this manner, I would only want to better the honest wr by a few tenths of a second - hundredths of a second on the oval. The odds of going unsuspected are greater in that case than if I were to blow away the honest wr by several seconds, such as was the case on the oval. I would also aim for a less high-profile record than FO8/Oval.

Until the hotlap checker is setup to disallow any 'tweaks', we must hand-verify each and every new wr by downloading the replay.

[Racer Y]

Hi. I'm not too familiar with this Mechanik(?) thingee.
Is that all it's good for is to cheat on Hot laps?
Personally, I don't care about the stats (cause I'm slow :nod:).
but I dunno, you'd figure people would like to brag that they got a WR without having to use a cheat program.

lol why don't somebody just make a program that gives you 1st place without
even having to leave the pits? It's about the same thing isn't it?


LOL what if someone flew in a hotlapper to their home and had them get a WR for them using their account? Yeah, I know... that's waay off the wall.
But hey, look how much people pay for evercrack characters and items
And don't forget the loser that stabbed some guy to death in real life cause he stole some goofy item from him and sold it on Ebay. I bet if he played LFS, he'd a done that to get a WR.

[Fonnybone]

Yeah, lets spread rumors without facts !:schwitz:

This 'problem' has been reported and is being worked on.
Notice i didn't update to 0.5Q yet. Scawen and Victor assured
me the laps would be invalid, but apparently they can still be loaded
and show up in the charts. They are invalid, but i'm working on extra
measures to prevent ANY of this. I don't need this %@?$.

Please be understanding ! :pillepall People who want to cheat will
always find a way, blaming MecaniK is like blaming TV for violence imo.

Ok, i feel better now, lol

[Vendetta]

Once they find a solution to this Mekanik stuff, i say the charts get reset :thumb: I myself was playing online testing this out, and ran a new time on the drag track with the UF1:x Im not uploading a hotlap though with Mekanik.

[Fonnybone]

Yeah, i'm working on this as we speak. Some small changes will 'fix'
this and there are good chances the hotlaps will be reset to 0.5Q,
but don't take my word for it.

[TRM.13]

It is not only a WR challenge problem at all, for example the world leagues are often limited or ordered by PBs. And then only with a little engine modification (+15 hp) cheaters time will be slighty better...

[Scawen]

It is not only a WR challenge problem at all, for example the world leagues are often limited or ordered by PBs. And then only with a little engine modification (+15 hp) cheaters time will be slighty better...No league should use online PBs as a qualification system. It's absolutely impossible to stop people being able to cheat the online PB system.

A reliable way to prove a PB is with a SPR, preferably a HLVC legal replay. If it plays on your computer then it is not hacked, simple as that. An MPR or online PB can be hacked, just by recording a MPR in a hacked version.

[Kashopi]

Please be understanding ! :pillepall People who want to cheat will
always find a way, blaming MecaniK is like blaming TV for violence imo.


Hey dude, no one (at least me) is blaming you for that.
Your tool is great.
The problem is the use some people make of it.
Keep up the good work Fonnybone

[Breizh]

Fonny, look at the devs: they don't apologize for not meeting everyone's (esp. deaf and clueless dolts) expectations doing what they feel is the right thing.

Wreckers and cheaters can be reported to the devs with evidence, the devs warn or delete the account and records, end of story :)

[Racer Y]

Yeah, lets spread rumors without facts !:schwitz:

This 'problem' has been reported and is being worked on.
Notice i didn't update to 0.5Q yet. Scawen and Victor assured
me the laps would be invalid, but apparently they can still be loaded
and show up in the charts. They are invalid, but i'm working on extra
measures to prevent ANY of this. I don't need this %@?$.

Please be understanding ! :pillepall People who want to cheat will
always find a way, blaming MecaniK is like blaming TV for violence imo.

Ok, i feel better now, lol


You made this tool? good! then what is it? what does it do?
besides what the cheaters use it for? Is it like LFS tweak?
I thought, going by the upper posts that it was kinda like that old cheat
where you hit a button and started doing lightspeed.....

I don't think nobody is blaming your program, just noting that Cheaters use it for their own ends, that's all. And you're right. They'll just find some other way to cheat if not with mecanik, then something else...

Oh & TV DOES cause violence... I don't know how many fights I seen people get into over what show to watch ;)

[96 GTS]

Yes, it's somewhat similar to LFSTweak, in that you can edit the performance of the cars. You can only do it by cartype though, not individual cars. It's not some Nitrous thingy that you just hit a button and go hyperspeed. It's quite fun to use offline, the FXO GTR handles 950hp beautifully ;)

[Gunn]

Just for the record, Fonnybone made proper enquiries and efforts to make sure his mod was clean prior to release. The unexpected happened as it sometimes does in life. The best laid plans of mice and men...:mouse: :wmann3:

[andervilarino]

I'm sorry, I think I was the first uploading a cheated HLVC. I apologized and I warned devs to find a solution. It looks like some people are more clever when they need, mezgo needed less than a day to notice that

[DeXteRrBDN]

I'm sorry, I think I was the first uploading a cheated HLVC. I apologized and I warned devs to find a solution. It looks like some people are more clever when they need, mezgo needed less than a day to notice that
Mezgo did it to probe LFS-Spain admins that HLVC is not safe to make inscriptions...
EDIT: I'm sorry, andervilarino was the drive who sended me an email telling me to report this bug to devs, not Mezgo. Sorry

If anyone uploads a cheat hotlap, it will not replay when you try to run it. Then, after this is reported, that person will be banned from uploading hotlaps.
Anyway... I have to reply to Scawen. This should not be the way... so our inscriptions (HLVC based) can actually be cheated, so people can upload bad cheated hotlpas, maybe not a hard cheated hotlap (doing a WR) but maybe a minor cheated hotlap (1 or 2 seconds better that your best time, maybe 2 seconds under the WR....) and this kind of cheats will not be never reported, so will not be never checked...... this is not fear... so now... what's the difference doing HLVC inscriptions or OnLine inscriptions if I can cheat both??? Maybe not a WR, but 2 second less than my best time, still 1 second to the WR...

[Rumiko]

DeXteRrBDN> Mekanik cheat is not the first, nor last. If devs knew how to make a bullet-proof system (if there's even is such a thing) they would already do it. You can offer suggestions how to prevent this cheat, if you have such information, but your post at this point isn't helping much.

My suggestion is, that there should be message when uploading hotlaps that any attempts at cheating with 3rd party software will result in permanent ban from all hotlap charts.

[colcob]

No league should use online PBs as a qualification system. It's absolutely impossible to stop people being able to cheat the online PB system.

A reliable way to prove a PB is with a SPR, preferably a HLVC legal replay. If it plays on your computer then it is not hacked, simple as that.

I must admit, that when I was witing the php for the unoffficial hotlap charts, I assumed that LFSWorld used your knowledge of the encypted file format to do some checks on the actual SPR data, rather than just relying on the header data.

I found with my charts that it was obviously possible to hexedit the data in the header to change the time, or mark a non HLVC lap as HLVC. Again, it wouldnt play if you tried to play it, but thats not really a robust solution.

Just out of interest, would a SPR with hex-edited time upload to LFSWorld?

[thisnameistaken]

I think this is getting way out of hand, and some of you people need to take deep breaths or something.

[Stellios]

schofei, by the sounds of it he asked the devs to authenticate his work before it was released.

[Noccy]

@schofei

If your neighbour goes to the bakery today,buys a bread and lets it lay to harden for 1week. Then next week he hits his wife on the head with it because he is nuts,or maybe because he blamed his wife for his impotence..and kills her.
Then by your reasoning that baker should be sued because he provided a tool for murder? Doesnt sound right now does it?

And yes fonnybone asked the devs and must have gotten premission or his tool wouldnt still be on this site.
And arent the guys uploading illegal laps the ones raising a verry unpleasant situation?..again in analogy with your neighbour..is the baker to blame or the nutcase who hits his wifes head in

[Breizh]

Schofei: a lot of barking for nothing, and up the wrong tree.

[Fonnybone]

@ Fonnybone,

just like to mention that you are neglecting your country's and international copyright law, which prohibits modifiying other peoples work. In addition you provide a tool, which enables others to do the same or to enhance your cheat. Doesn't matter if it is just for fun or due to commercial interest.

Saying that "...People who want to cheat will always find a way..." is no argument, modifying other peoples software is prohibited by law, point.

For software like LFS, which is targeted for online usage mainly, it is vital that nobody gets unfair advantages, it could kill the game. No need to talk about potential loss of money.

You should be happy if the devs don't file a law suit against you.

So please stop working on your tool, you already have raised a very unpleasant situation.

lol, you're kiding right ? :D

Oh, ok, you're serious...:Looking_a :schwitz:

Well, yeah, you're right up to a point there. The law is there to protect
the devs. If they feel the need, they could very well sue me, but they
don't (haven't yet). I am very thankfull for this, they are not EA. If
they ask (asked) me to stop, i will (would). In fact, i HAVE in the past.

Oh yeah, notice how i'm a moderator on THEIR forum (they've asked me
to be here). Also, notice how i've posted this trainer on THEIR forum. If
they really don't like this, they have all the tools to stop it. They can't
prevent someone else from doing it though, so maybe they'd rather have
someone they know do it so they at least know wtf is going on and have
a certain control over this. :smileypul

Sometimes giving a little candy can make the ride a bit quieter until
we actually reach the amusement park. You know how kids are...

Then there's the mommy squads telling us candy is bad and all :tilt:

Edit: I just looked in the LFS folder and on the website and no where is any of this
mentionned. On the other hand, this forum DOES have limitations for mods, MecaniK
has broken one of those, although unintentionally. Here they are for your information,
since you seem to judge things based on your moral values without actually researching:

4) Any "mods" - modifications to the Live for Speed exe, must be discussed
with a moderator before being released on the forum. If a mod is approved by a moderator,
it may then be released in the appropriate section of the forum. Please do not contact
a developer as we do not support mods and do not have the time to deal with them.
Any mods which change the shape of a car model, or which allow online cheating or
circumvent HLVC, will be rejected.

Ironically, I'M the moderator designated to verify the validity of add-ons on these forums.
Now you MUST find that part funny a bit ;)

[detail]

@ Fonnybone,
For software like LFS, which is targeted for online usage mainly, it is vital that nobody gets unfair advantages, it could kill the game. No need to talk about potential loss of money.
...
So please stop working on your tool, you already have raised a very unpleasant situation.
You must be speaking without having even tried the tool, just speculating with the rumours and your conjectures. "We, the proletarians from the city N, haven't read «Doctor Zhivago», but condemn Bulgakov".

[Rotary]

Ironically, I'M the moderator designated to verify the validity of add-ons on these forums.
Now you MUST find that part funny a bit ;)

:rofl: That is funny :D

Shame on the offenders. Kudos to Funnybone, his mods help keep the life in LFS for some while we wait for the next big patch :)

[tristancliffe]

Looks like Tweak has just condemned himself to hell (or the LFS version of Hell - which must be that 'space' under blackwood).