**UKCT PRESENTS**eSport-Racing UK/Ireland National Championship

[Viper93]

On wednesday 5th of December, the UK/IRE league of the eSport Touringcar Masters will start. You love the thrill and got fuel running through your veins? Go grab your chance! Sign in for the eSport Touringcar Masters and prove how fast you really are. Put the pedal to the metal, race for prices and maybe your personal ticket to the Worldchampionshipraces.




The Qualifying is open to everyone and utilises a well known tracking system: After you have registered on our site, you have 20 free laps to do on the eSport Racing server. Your laps are tracked and the fastest laptime counts for your qualification. The best 22 Users will get their place in the first national UK league! All qualifying results will be viewable on esport-racing.com. You missed to qualify for the first league? No problem at all, we will provide a challenging league for everyone! The places 23-44 will get into the second national UK league and so on and so on.

More Infos on the UK eSport Touringcar Master:

The same cars are driven as in the international eSport Touringcar Masters and also the tracks are the same. All races will be held Wednesdays from 19.30 UCT on. You find all details about the races in the RULES (http://www.esport-racing.com/index.php?action=rules&langid=1). If you have any questions regarding the league, sign up process or something else, just go to our forum (http://www.esport-racing.com/wbb.php?langid=1) and ask. And now Gentleman, Start your engines!
Head over to our UK/IRE qualifying server here:

Server: 1. UK-IRE eTM Qualification
Password: qual4etm

Tracker (http://www.lfs-tracker.de/quali_mode.php?league=154)

Website: http://www.esport-racing.com/index.php
UK section http://www.esport-racing.com/liga.php?action=view_league&liga_id=25&langid=1


Rules: http://www.esport-racing.com/index.php?action=rules
On Track infractions will follow CTRA racer rules (link to follow)


Forum: http://www.esport-racing.com/wbb.php
UK Section: http://www.esport-racing.com/board.php?boardid=46


LFS Tracker: http://www.lfs-tracker.de/quali_mode.php?league=154

Start Date: 05DEC2007 @ (TBH)

[Viper93]

I know why Dan has reservations about this league but what is concerning everyone else?

[Bean0]

Not enough time to practice.

I don't use the GTRs that much, and if I entered I'd just get my arse handed to me.

[SparkyDave]

I share similar reservations as Dan, things seem disorganized and info slow to get out, or difficult to find, also I think the forced view and limited payment options, and the fact that this is being run by europeans (no offence intended) for the UK is troubling many potential competitors.

If this was intended for the UK market, wouldn't it feel more comfortable to pay in £s, and to have an english site with full info posted well before the start of the league.

I was very interested when I 1st heard about this thing and asked many questions in the other thread, most were ignored, thats when my interest was lost, that and the awfull website (red/white with QT activeX trying to invade my PC)

problems arn't dealtwith when admins say they will be, Dan was told his old team tag would be removed from the tracker 5 days ago, still hasn't happened, feels like this is just an extension of the international league to try to gain extra funds, but it looks to me like the international league is well run and not enough time or manpower left over to properly organise the UK nationals.

also I hear "UKTC presents" making it sound like its a UK run event, then I hear CTRA are also involved then theres E-Sports, (I understand UKCT are admining and CTRA are for extended appeals?, are not the CTRA staff also UKCT staff? I just don't get it.

I dont want to sound all negative its a good concept and I wish Jo and everyone the best of luck.

SD.

[Viper93]

Everything you guys said all I can do is :nod::nod::nod:

There is a difference between UKCT and CTRA. UKCT has no governing body functions and is just like any other team.

CTRA is bigger than any one team and just because the people running it are from UKCT does not mean it IS UKCT =P

For this league I would step away from CTRA duties regarding anything ESport and would handle the UKCT National functions only.

[F.Rizzo]

For me it is purely down to the short notice. I would have been very interested in this league, but 5 days (when it was announced in this forum) to practice the qualifying track and the track the the first race simply isn't enough for people that also have to work and have a life outside of LFS :shrug:

Also the fact that there is very little data on how everything is run, if by entering this season you will be assured a place in the next season etc etc ... there are tons of unanswered questions which wouldn't bother me either if it was free, but as there is a fee I would want more details before parting with my money.

I am still considering entering but am leaning towards a no at the moment for the above reasons.

[PaulC2K]

Im suprised it even needs to be pointed out, but for those that dont seem to have figured it out, there are 4 reasons i can think of why this series is doomed to begin with:

1) The fact that it seems impossible to make the payment, widely available & commonly used methods not being used and only extremely expensive alternatives being possible (like 5x more than the fee itself) arent enticing.

2) Your making every effort to turn people away, forcing people to use views and specific settings they dont normally use and arent used to while demanding payment to 'reserve a place', they're all reasons why people wont enter, so if a driver doesnt like 1 of those things they're being forced to accept they wont enter, its fantastic for those who like it, but useless for those who dont. Basically your left with the people happy with driving the way you insist it must be done, willing to pay for the privelage, and are able & willing to race on that date/time with such short notice.
It removes the possibility of the best British drivers competing in 1 series for a spot in the International series, and becomes a series of whoever's actually still interested in racing after all attempts to put them off has failed. Thrilling.
I could add to this point based on the reasoning behind these rules but i sense it probably wouldnt be taken with the humour i find in it, but its all very reminiscent of history and sadly the irony of it would probably be lost all things considered :D Quality eitherway :razz:

3) Paying to enter a series which is supposedly to pay for the admins to run a well organised event, when the reality at this point seems to be they cant organise a p*ss up in a brewery! Prizes that sound like unwanted freebies dont appeal much, however if theres Nintendo Wii's and Holidays up for grabs ala Int eTM then theres a start, but some poker kit?? Theres some nice things there but no sign of a reason to pay for something that currently sounds like an afterthought to make a couple of quid on the side. Live streaming video is great, Instantly available replays & results, fantastic, but a live stream is no use to the people driving, replays are just a couple of button clicks away (and IMO crap to watch because of the camera restrictions) from anyone wanting them, and near instant results...??
BOTT has managed to get prizes for the top 3 teams, inc 1yr/6mth/3mth LFS Server hosting, 2yr web hosting and a TrackIR system (thats to each team, not split!), the admin gets up before 6am, gets things done in a timely fashion (not 'near instant' but whoopie doo) and all for the cost of zero euros, zero pounds and zero dollars (the catch is its non-refundable!!). At least those are LFS related prizes which most people might find usefull, rather than something that sounds like an unwanted birthday gift from a distant elderly relative.

4) Personally i'd love to see 'pay to play' events fail because i really dont want to encourage a trend of series demanding money to race. If there are GENIUNE reasons which warrant a fee being needed then it could be excused, but im not seeing anything like a reason here as i mentioned above theres no sign of proper organisation, decent communication, or reason to pay money for whats offered in return, the only real prize is being *allowed* to take part in the international version... really??
Okay so £4 isnt much, but its the same with everything isnt it, today its £4 then next time its £6, and before long the idea of just joining a series and racing will be gone without the transaction of cash in return. Still, as every effort is being made to put people off entering and i geniunely appreciate it, its helped my conscience heaps.


Personally it sounds like a waste of time, it'd be better if it was properly planned and not done like a last minute afterthought, give people proper notice and get things organised beforehand not less than a week before the event. If it was free, then people wouldnt give a hoot, they wouldnt be overly impressed at the lack of organisation days before the start, but being one of the first series demanding payment for the services provided is just an insult to anyone thats entered any other series, and every other series organiser that puts in a damn sight more effort off their own back without wanting paying for the privelage.
Give people a real reason to enter and people might, taking the p*ss and wondering why people arent so enthusiastic is rather amusing though. Basically theres too many peices of the puzzle missing, if they can be found then maybe it could be pretty good, but it'll never be as good as it could be when people are faced with so many reasons to pass this up when theres no reason to go out of their comfort zone to take part, its that simple.

:shrug:

[DaveWS]

I wonder what Paul's average post length is? :razz:

But yeah, that pretty much sums it all up for me too. :shrug:

[PaulC2K]

Im onto my 2nd Quad-Core, the first one blew up early on into calculating that very question :razz: :razz:

My posts are always so long cos i hate it when people give a half paragraph answer to something and leaves you kinda wanting more info, im well aware the majority of people wont even bother reading what i have to say, but those that actually care will read it and at least they'll know my thoughts/feelings. I also find most people will also take the above as moaning or complaining and suggest instead i just dont enter rather than 'moaning/complaining' but truth is if people dont give an honest opinion then things never get fixed or at least get the chance to be... But mostly its cos i like a good moan :D

[danowat]

+1 to everything above.

For a premium league, the advertising has been shocking, some viral advertising using peoples sigs would have been a good idea, heck I think I do a better job of advertising my leagues..........

The notice period was EXTREMELY short, which is probably why the advertising has been so poor.

Organisation is shocking TBH, there are a ton of things that should have been put in place before even annoucing this league.

In short, unless things are sorted out very, very quickly, this is doomed to fail, I would be VERY suprised if the league does indeed start on Wednesday.

I am sorry for being negative, but ATM I am struggling to find any positives, I am more than happy to support a premium pay-to-play LFS UK league (even though I have little chance of ever winnning), but I really want to see some good work going on behind the scenes before I vote with my wallet.

So for this reason, I am out :)

[nikimere]

The only problems i have with this league are:

Only 7 days between races
and
The short notice to start of league.

[Vykos69]

Well, some simple points:

We are currently checking the way to put up paypal.

4 quid are really expensive if you blew up your second quadcore over the weekend.

FCV is a decent point, to level out a field. AFAIK, it will be improved in upcoming patches.

We will probably postpone this UK event, as I am a bit disappointed on the reactions. Dunno why people start whining and all about prizes etc. Do you get any prizes in another LFS league? Any real prizes? Like a Wii or a travel or so? Remember, you can qualify through that to fight for those prizes.

Next point: It's a truly ambitious project, but without people driving it, there wont be advertisement, there wont be bigger prizes. So it's simple: Be in now, and you will have a better spot in upcoming seasons. And yes there will be.

Besides that, we will take into account, that you dont have enough time to practice etc. So the question here is: What would be a reasonable and good schedule for you guys?

Oh and again... 20 * 4... that'll be 80 pounds. Wow, a hell lot of money for the admins... It is to cover expenses and work.

About the "behind the scenes": I do think, the rules are clear, simple and providing good action, as the german and international streams prove. It is down to racing skillz, as we are strictly against penalty weights etc.

I still do wonder, where the list is, with the tons of things, that had to be put in place. It's all there: Go read rules, qualify, pay and you are in. Nothing more, nothing less. Maybe it's also my perception of things, as in germany it easily went that way. Maybe it's due to the fact, that we had ongoing LFS leagues here for quiet a while, but for that there is also the rules section about relegation etc.
The rest is WiP, as you play a WiP product every day, I personally thought, you have some open mind for stuff being ready but still in development. We are open to every kind of critics, advices and wishes. So OK, we will postpone it, there will be a news up pretty soon about that, and I encourage you, to help get this thing going, or shall all the prizes (again) only go to germany? ;)

Some words on the page itself, maybe you just didnt want to take some deeper look, so here goes:
Webstreams of LIVE racing and later to be found on Media page.
Actual league system, with putting up the results and replays about 2-5 minutes after the race (will be instant in probably a week or two, including full stat system). Penalty system included, easy to handle for admins. Two backup systems for the results (last is adding them manually ;) ).
News and racereports.

So, once again: Give us some feedback, we'll include whatever possible, and then we'll postpone that UK/IRE event.

[nikimere]

If you could add PayPal and have the races every 2 weeks then i think most of us would be happy :)
@ SparkyDave this is a UK & Ireland league so paying in £'s wouldn't exactly make it fair :p The option to pay in £ and € would be ideal ;)

[Tweaker]

and if I entered I'd just get my arse handed to me.
But you are pro, like.... almost Titanium!!!! :really: :tilt:

[PaulC2K]

The cost of entry is irrelevent, however the fact that you insist on people paying to take part should mean were getting something back in return that no other league offers. The only thing you offer that no other series offers is entry to the international round, right?

Why does this series warrent people paying to enter? There are plenty of events out there, free to join, and they're organised just as well as this, infact more-so based on what little you've proved so far. Its all promises of wonder, yet all the evidence points to nothing but arrogance that people will just ignore all the holes and failures in the setup and come flooding in because of the possibility to race in the international race.

Could you remind everyone how much the International folks paid to race? i'll quite happily pay for everyone who wants to race if its at the same price as they paid. So you'll run that for free but not the rest? They get free entry, prizes people want rather than country fair raffle ticket type prizes?
Infact, heres your answer! Take your 50-€ poker kit, stick it... on ebay :razz: and let that pay for your 'expenses and work', sod the crap prizes people dont care about winning and you'll have people signing up in no time.


Question: If there was a league, free or pay to play, information was slow, details were rather last minute, you had to drive in 3rd-person camera and had 2 weeks notice of it starting... would you join??
Answer: Would you balls! You'd take one look and realise they cant even start the series efficiently so what hope is there of them running it half-decent and your not going out of your way to adapt to a new driving style with short notice of a badly organised event. Stop pretending this league is anything but an afterthought, someone else you can spoon some money off. You cant sort your end out, why should people come rushing to join something you havent even finished working on, and pay for the damn privelage too!


'do you get any prizes in any other league'
Wanna read my post? The BOTT series, the one your team joined and showed up for round 5 only, had you participated like you said you would you might have known they had prizes, cost of entry, nothing. They found sponsors, just like you have for the international series.
Even the UF Owners club have got some crappy car shop providing prizes, cost of entry, nothing.
As for being able to win a Wii or holiday if you get into the international series, dont forget to add thats after you beat:
N1lyn, Zock, Baggy, Chriskart, Vince, B0nd, Jay, Jonesy, Rudi, HuskyG, Sracer, Clownpaint, Misko.... Theres over 20 people who were invited because they're the best racers out there, and folks... if you beat all of them over 8 races then you'll win a Wii, and i'll thrown in a 360 too, a Ferrari 360 ffs.
Is that all there is? if i'd known this i'd have paid, joined, and started packing my suitcase and bought some sun-block already!


'£80.... It is to cover expenses and work'
expenses and work other leagues dont make their entrants pay for.
How much are UKCT getting? CRTA?? My bet is nothing, they're putting their free time into making this successful so you can be paid to do a couple of simple things, at least you've sorted your priorities.

'The rest is WiP, as you play a WiP product every day, I personally thought, you have some open mind for stuff being ready but still in development.'
We all paid for something that we couldnt get elsewhere, your charging for something we can get better for free elsewhere, maybe you should take a step back and open your mind a little?

[Rooble]

I agree with Paul.

I don't find it fair that the others were invited and have the opportunity to win great prizes and not have to pay a fee, and we the less fortunate or left to scrap it out after we've handed over £4 or however much it is.

We will probably postpone this UK event, as I am a bit disappointed on the reactions. Dunno why people start whining and all about prizes etc. Do you get any prizes in another LFS league? Any real prizes? Like a Wii or a travel or so? Remember, you can qualify through that to fight for those prizes.

I think thats a little offensive Vykos if you consider we are supposed to be your paying customers, as Paul stated there have/are leagues that hand out prizes and do not request an entry fee and they're mostly pretty well organized. Its also all fair and great that you've secured awesome prizes for the invited few, but those prizes are not available for anyone looking to participate in your sub leagues. We have the chance to contend next time round but I'm sure those same prizes will have long gone, don't you? :smileypul

You were expecting everyone to come running with their wallets flapping to be able to compete in your prestigious league but you completely underestimated everyone here in my opinion, its like a bad circus act were you step up to beat the big boxer guy but basically just pay someone to smack the shit out of you. The reward if you win though (which is highly unlikely cause he's one 'ard nut) is a stuffed teddy bear which sort of smells like piss that's been kicking about forever.

No hard feelings though, Herr Fieß - OK? :D

Edit : Just reschedule it and get or done properly, its not like a German to rush things and be unorganized - Thats typically something a Brit would do :)

[thisnameistaken]

its like a bad circus act were you step up to beat the big boxer guy but basically just pay someone to smack the shit out of you.

That's a thread-endingly-good analogy.

[Rooble]

That's a thread-endingly-good analogy.

I knew I had it in me somewhere! :razz:

[Vykos69]

Paul, I wonder how so much anger came to your mind:

a: ukct/ctra would be getting basically all the money (actually more than 80pounds).

b: What we offer? Besides those prizes? Well, if no one likes to race, then it's fine by me. No coverage, no news on sites that are hit by millions of people, no LIVE coverage, no additional prizes. What I announced atm are prizes at a low level, but at the same time we are working hard to get more. I dont know where that picture come from, that you pay for nothing. Get your facts straight, Mr Paul before going on spreading stuff which is simply NOT true.

As I said, we are open to critics, but I am by far not willing to accept such bloody anger from you, Paul. That's just totally disrespectful. Get your feelings right. No one forces you to join. I am just trying to understand, why e.g. all worked out easily in germany. Must be something I dont get (yet, hopefully).

Another point: What the hell isnt organized? I'm still waiting for that huge list...

Back to some constructive points (Paul, why not help a bit, instead of being angry again):
As I said already, I'd like to have some more infos what would be suitable and a good start, what is lacking on the page, what you think is "not organized" etc. etc. I am fully positive, that the UK league will start. Not this week, but soon, and I am working on that fulltime.

One more point: Ever tried to enter real motorsports? Or started with karting, to get into Formula1 one day? "All the racers in WTCC or F1 earn money - why should I pay, to drive in GP2 or even in FiA GT? Or VLN? or or or". It's a matter of fact, that the best racers IRL and also hear, are more representative, and get more bonusses. So one point besides the prizes is the fact that they dont have to pay for that. If you spin this ideas more, you'll end up at a point where also the national top league drivers get more prizes and benefits from their sponsors etc. etc.
Once more, it's an ambitious project, A lot of people are putting a lot of time and money into that, and we only want to provide you some cool league with the best racing you can get. As driver and as viewer/spectator. Even if we had a bad start in UK/IRE, we will do a lot to change that, and enjoy you with some cool working league.

[PaulC2K]

No Anger, just find it hilarious that your so naive and so far up your own arse you still havent realised your replying in a thread filled with reasons people dont want to join YOUR series, how many more people need to agree with the various comments made in here about the fact that this isnt a series, its a lazy arrogant after-thought with no planning, no organisation, and nobody wanting to join it and guess what, were all wrong?? Well thanks for clearing that up, Vykos has spoke, we were all wrong it turns out.


a) So your paying CTRA/UKCT over £80 to flap there mouths about race incidents? They've never needed a reason to belittle people before, now you want to pay them to do it.... i say you, obvious i mean we the racers paying to take part are to pay them, right? If ever there needed to be a reason this series is a joke, thats just answered it right there! YOU want someone else to do half the work, but want everyone else to pay for it or at least significantly contribute towards it. Isnt that what your saying??
No other series needs to pay someone to watch a reply and give a high-n-mighty view of it, maybe if peoples entry fee's werent spent on such stupid things it could be free.
I'd LOVE to know how many people who were interested in taking part but didnt because you cant sort out a proper payment method are now rather glad they didnt seeing as they're paying towards you hiring outside help!

b) Mr Vykos, 'no other league offers prizes' is telling me to get my facts straight? Sugar, your the one responsible for getting everyones facts straight, and if your attempts are so piss-poor that nobody knows whats going on days before the series is supposed to start, if you'd tell people whats going on maybe we'd know, maybe you wouldnt find the other thread is full of people asking you to give more information, maybe you wouldnt need a thread questioning why people simply arent interested in entering. So get your facts straight and dont moan because you cant put a message across!
You want to talk about advertising and news on websites that get millions of hits, Your on one you idiot, you cant even muster any interest from people that play the game how do you hope to get it from people flicking through a site? If you can get decent prizes which make paying to enter worthwhile, then thats great, but so far you've listed 1 item, a Poker set. 'What do you offer?' You offer things that dont exist yet, im filled with confidence now. I might get my name mentioned on a site i dont visit, yey me. No live coverage, how many racers taking part give a hoot about this? They're driving you dummy, its beyond live there, its interactive no less, so what if everyone else gets it, its not a reason to pay to join your series is it! As i say, im not spreading anything thats not true, im only repeating what your telling people, if thats not true that who's fault is that? What have i said thats not true, that ive come to my OWN conclusion, and isnt based on something your telling people? At least i havent blatently lied about what you offer compared to other series! Who's 'misleading and spreading stuff thats simply not true' now?


Theres no 'bloody anger' if there was you'd get far worse, trust me!

Mr Vykos 'why not help a bit, instead of being angry' yet again, i ask you to READ MY POSTS, as i told you the last time you said something which i'd already pointed out in the previous post was BS, sell the crap prizes your trying to fobb off as a worthwhile reason to enter the series, and pay whoever the hell you want with that money, and make the series free to enter, then you'll have no problems getting people coming through.
Still, you continue ignoring valid suggestions and make your BS comments about how the UK is really letting you down and we should embrace your half-arsed series because we play LFS which is also incomplete. The way your going about things it looks like a similar progress path, maybe in 10 years time it'll look like a real series and might just warrent an entry fee, but right now its a series clearly nobody wants to join because of the 4 things i highlighted.
You are the one with the failing series that couldnt get started, not me, people have asked for our opinions and your getting them, either accept them or stick your head in the sand and blame everything but your own failings.

'What isnt organised'
READ THE DAMN THREAD! How many people need to tell you??

If you want to talk about 'disrespectful' how about being so full of yourself that you IGNORE the fact that your replying in a 'why arent people joining my series' thread, IGNORE all the peoples reasons for not wanting to join, Make claims which are FALSE ('no others series offers prizes, ive named 2 i've entered in the last month!) while harping on about getting facts right, IGNORE the suggestions made which most people would accept most of the missing peices you havent sorted out, and instead you just carry on blaming everyone else. But no, im disrespectful, im only someone that might have been interested in joining your failed series who's been put off by your organising skills (or lack there of) and having been asked why i wouldnt join have spent the time outlining key aspects which are easily identified by anyone with half a brain (its starting to add up now!) and have given you suggestions you cant even be arsed to read let alone acknowledge. What a disrespectful jerk i am!!

And no, if you've ever seen me drive you'll be well aware i've never tried to become the next F1 driver, im crap, but it doesnt stop me racing and enjoying it. What you want to do is break the mold, and if your going to do that by expecting people to pay to take part then you better have a bloody good reason for people paying because nobody else has had the bare faced cheak to say 'pay me to run a series' or more accurately 'pay someone else to do a part of the series i cant be arsed doing myself'. Considering your claiming the cost of CRTA's involvement is over £80, the amount your throwing around as being the funds raised by peoples entry fee's, maybe the smart idea is to not pay people to do such an insignificant job, and let people enter for free, or sell the crap prizes and even ebay off your suggestions of others coming later, and use that to pay for CRTA, but expecting the entry fee's everyone is paying to go straight into paying someone to oversee part of the series is unfair and a disgrace, and hardly suprising that it hasnt been mentioned until i asked is it!

[Storm_Cloud]

Whilst we're sort of on the subject of prizes, Gentlefoot Formula Challenge is offering trophies for the upcoming seasons of GFC and GTTC (Gentlefoot Tin-Top Challenge). Cost to enter: Nothing.

Prizes that I can easily afford to buy myself but don't really want do not interest me. Do you know what you get for winning OWRL? Nothing, apart from a fancy render of your car with "OWRL Division A Winner" on it. And I'll tell you what, I want that more than a Nintendo Wii.

If the money on offer to the admins is so small why don't you waive it for the first season? Speculate to accumulate. Or be like a crack dealer and offer something so good, for free, that people want to come back for more and are willing to pay for it.

You need to sell your product, not pick fights with people that don't agree with you.

Oh, and ditch the Touring Cars and run open-wheelers instead.

[N I K I]

I think you guys from UK get it wrong, maybe prizes are bad now, but in end of 2008 i reckon there will be 300-1000Euros things to win if all starts good, but it looks like you guys don't want to pay those miser 5Euros because you don't like prizes. I think that entry fee will stay the same for ever (or it should be) and prizes will go better and better.
Well see, if it's true Vykos will say it, if not sorry then I'm wrong.

[SparkyDave]

Niki its not about the money, really its not.

I cant find the aplication for the internationals anywhere, was this an invite only league for the internationals?
looking at the names I think I get it :) invite those you know.

I would have thought run the nationals first, then run internationals with the top drivers from the nationals?

nevermind.

SD.

[danowat]

It's nothing to do with the money N I K I, I would be more than happy to pay 5 euros, no problem.

For me, it's the general feeling and organisation, and if Vykos can't see what I mean about organisation (after I mentioned lots of things prior to this thread), then I think thats a sad state, and says more to me about how things are.

It's all been done the wrong way round, from the notice period of the UK league, to the way the international league was arranged, to the lack of advertising, and the general malaise that the Esport team show (TBH, I think it may be down to national differences, which is why a german team, organising a german league worked).

ESL had a couple of UK leagues, free ones at that, with prizes, and they couldn't even fill full grids every week.

I ask you this Vykos, what are YOU offering for 5 euros, that the FREE ESL UK leagues never did?, why would your league get full numbers when the FREE ESL one never did?

I think you need to have a good think at what you are offering your CUSTOMERS that they can't already find elsewhere, because TBH, I can see no U.S.P for the national leagues atm.

[N I K I]

It's nothing to do with the money N I K I, I would be more than happy to pay 5 euros, no problem.
........
I ask you this Vykos, what are YOU offering for 5 euros, that the FREE ESL UK leagues never did?, why would your league get full numbers when the FREE ESL one never did?

lol and you tell it has nothing to do with money, you say it all here.

TBH i think races should be every 2 weeks, but they already had start it once a weeks so nothing can be done there :shrug:

At the end I feel like you guys don't like that's organized by Germans, hehe
but it says UKCT presents... hm

I would have thought run the nationals first, then run internationals with the top drivers from the nationals?
SD.
as i say that races should be every 2 weeks, this should be done this way, but it's already done on other way and you just can't change anything now :S

[danowat]

lol and you tell it has nothing to do with money, you say it all here.

At the end I feel like you guys don't like that's organized by Germans, hehe
but it says UKCT presents... hm

You have the wrong end of my stick my friend.

It has nothing to do with spending MY money, money isn't the reason I won't participate, but it may be a factor to others, but it isn't to me.

To those it may be an issue to, they may look at what they are getting for their 5 euros, that they can't already get for free elsewhere, and the fact that the ESL struggled to get full grids for every event, for a free league with prizes, makes me wonder just why esport think they will be successfull. :shrug:

As for your last comment, thats bordering on calling me a racist, and I am nothing of the sort, I love Germany, the Germans are fantastic people, however, it has been clear to me on numerous occasions, both professional and pleasureable, that the Germans have a certain way of doing, and putting things, that doesn't always gel well with others.

[dawesdust_12]

Dan, I don't think your girlfriend would like you going to her "ZOMG! LOOK AT THIS GOLD CUP I WON PLAYING LFS!".

:p

[danowat]

She doesn't like LFS period ;)

Besides, the chances of me winning anything other than the wooden spoon is slim to none ;)

[N I K I]

This is what it can offer to you i think.
Clean fun racing with GTR's and Strategies dramatic. I think that main problem is that you guys don't drive GTR's so much and you don't know how much fun it can be :p

sorry for that i said maybe you don't like it that's organized by Germans, it has nothing to do with Racism. TBH i like their way, it's all as it should be, news come fast, replay are good provided, streams are there, rules are good formed, what else do you want :shrug:

[danowat]

TBH i like their way, it's all as it should be, news come fast, replay are good provided, streams are there, rules are good formed, what else do you want :shrug:

TBH, apart from the streams and the prizes, I can't really see much different to how I run my league :shrug:

[N I K I]

Well what it should be there more, lol

The point is that you don't like GTR racing :nod::D and you can't really find competitive league this days that runs only GTR's (sprint racing)

[niels1]

I have been reading this thread with quite some interest. 1 of our HR guys did wanna join. It got me curious and looked it up. To pay 5 euro to enter a league is nothing.

But after you payed there is now way in the world I could beat the guys named by Paul here below. On top off that they have a free entry !!. Wich means I pay to get my ass kicked by guys who are free to drive there. I can get my ass kicked free by faster drivers on any league or event. No disrespect to the named racers.


I think thats the main reason people dont wanna join. Why would you pay and get your ass kicked anyway by drivers who have a free entry ??. It should be all paying or not but not some dont and the rest has to pay. It feels kinda like a rip off although its only 5 euro. :scratchch No disrespect to any who organised this at all.

Dont get me wrong, its not I dont wanna spend money on this but if I have to thrown money away I rather give it to a medical research or some institute. :shrug:

I am sorry but this is mine personal opion and the reason I will not join this league.

[danowat]

The point is that you don't like GTR racing :nod::D and you can't really find competitive league this days that runs only GTR's (sprint racing)

Who said I don't like GTR racing?, I did a whole ESL ESCCII season in the GTR cars, didn't do very well granted, but I stuck it out and raced in EVERY race.

I also race the GTR's on the CTRA servers whenever possible, so believe me, it has NOTHING to do with the cars.

[N I K I]

niels might be true,
just saying: look at MoE, nothing is organized so special and ppl still like it and drive it :)
Yeh Vykos, why they didn't pay?

[nikimere]

Niki its not about the money, really its not.

I cant find the aplication for the internationals anywhere, was this an invite only league for the internationals?
looking at the names I think I get it :) invite those you know.

I would have thought run the nationals first, then run internationals with the top drivers from the nationals?

nevermind.

SD.
The internationals as far as i could see was just like a test series... i wouldn't get all hung up about not being invited... It was/is free to all (who were invited).
The national league all pay to enter. The top X amount of driver get to race in the International league for free. At least thats the way i understand it. Seems fair enough to me.

It's nothing to do with the money N I K I, I would be more than happy to pay 5 euros, no problem.
Dan i dont think your post makes it sound like it has nothing to do with money.
Really, so what if u can get the same for free? They are entitled to ask for money if they want. A lot of time and effort goes into creating an running a league as you well know.
If anyone thinks they can get the same for free, then that is fine, do that. For me i think this league draws in the "Big Guns", and that's is what interests me. Racing against quicker drivers is the best way to up your game.
I'm absolutely baffled as to how this league seems to have offended people in some way. I did a couple of races in the International league this season until work commitments stopped me continuing, and i have to say everything ran extremely smoothly and i was impressed.
The only genuine reason for not doing this league is the short notice and the fact the races are every 7 days. Other than that I'll would definitely be signing up to the Nationals.

[danowat]

Of course, they are more than entitled to ask 5 euros, 50 euros, 500 euros, whatever they want, but if Vykos asks, and he did, why people aren't interested, or thinigs to improve, then I will tell it like I see it.

I am not offended in any way, personally, it seems like Vykos maybe offended that people didn't jump at the chance to take part in this league.

I have said all I want to say, people obviously don't see my point of view, where I am coming from and that I am trying to help Vykos make this UK league something good, because I am, I want(ed) to see it succeed, now I really can't be bothered to spend any energy on it at all.

I wish Vykos luck with the league, and thats the last I will say on the subject.

[Vykos69]

First of all, thanx for all your open words.

We will postpone the start of the UK/IRE league. It cant be our goal, to force something, which doesnt work out and doesnt make the participants happy.

Some (last for now) words on some of the issues: We had to start with some league at all, and the idea to invite the best racers known in LFS paid of, as we saw thrilling races so far, the streams are well visited. Why they dont pay a fee? Because our partners did that to present their teams and cars racing there.

We have to start somewhere, and we invest a lot of time into this project. We see your very valid points, and that's the reason why we postpone it: To come back with a more complete project. I simply overestimated several things, as it seems. So far just enjoy the races in the international league, the coverage and all. As you might already understood, we want to establish a lot of leagues, and a lot of racing, based on our site. If some of the stuff we offer, doesnt suit you, then just dont go there and drive there. eSport-Racing is not there, to suit all your needs and wishes, as this is per definitionem impossible. We offer something, we will improve our offer, but: It will be a GTR league with some prizes and an opportunity to move up to an international level and drive there for bigger prizes and coverage on huge websites, IP-TV etc. etc.
If that is not want you are looking for: I am sorry, we might have some other project in our case under the table, that might suit you later on then.

Cheerio, Keep Racing, we keep working on this.

[Bean0]

Just remember to give plenty of notice in time for the relaunch :)

[F.Rizzo]

I'd just like to point out that not everyone thinks it is badly organised or a rip-off or anything of the sort. I was happy to consider entering to have a chance of moving up to the international league and will do so again when the series re-launches. I do think the information could be displayed clearer on the site as it really is a bit hard to find. More notice certainly is required next time though! :thumb:

One thing that would encourage me to join is a guaranteed place in the next season as I would not be too happy being one of the first to pay and then not get in next season when it may be more popular or well known. :shrug: :)

[AlienT.]

I'd just like to point out that not everyone thinks it is badly organised or a rip-off or anything of the sort. I was happy to consider entering to have a chance of moving up to the international league and will do so again when the series re-launches. I do think the information could be displayed clearer on the site as it really is a bit hard to find. More notice certainly is required next time though! :thumb:

One thing that would encourage me to join is a guaranteed place in the next season as I would not be too happy being one of the first to pay and then not get in next season when it may be more popular or well known. :shrug: :)

Agreed :)....the more I think about it and the more I see illustrious fast drivers associated with this league...then maybe I'd be too slow anyway even if the league did get of the ground.....the fastest I've managed (offline) is 1:38:19 a massive 3 seconds from what I would need to be (looking at the tracker). doh!..

Good luck with it anyway! I'll keep on practising :)

[Chriskart]

Just some quick opinions about this from my point og view.

I was lucky enough to be handed out an invite for the international etm, but kinda had the feeling that i think most UK guys have now.. We were told that we would have official skins, numberplates, everything was gonna be planned and executed in time etc etc. All this appeared on the website in the last
minute, and i think the whole bunch of racers who was going to participate in this was quite unsure abut the whole series. It looked quite unprepared, and the general feeling within the F1RST team was that this was indeed rushed up...

Luckily, all drivers has so far shown really nice dedication and motivation towards etm, and i can tell you that i really enjoy being a part of this now. Live streams are good (tho, stop eating jo :razz:), information has become good, races are great, nice reports on the website, admins are doing a great job overall, providing support whenever you need it.

I'm driving in etm purely for fun, and i did honestly not know much about those prizes before i opened this thread today :D

All i can say is that this league is indeed wip atm, but it has only changed to the better so far. It's definately a league i will spend time on, also in the future :)