Little suggestions

[DieKolkrabe]

Hey...as I can't sleep, here's some suggestions:

1) Add in a feature to disable restart/end race voting or make it admin only.

2) Everyone is banging on about realism. Which I understand. But why can't there be a semi-sim type mode, for people who may want to race/are drunk/high/just got home from work and are stressed/etc. I don't mean having braking help, or anything like that. I mean making the cars and tracks easier ONLY in this mode, possibly by reducing the power of the cars by 10-20hp. And to balance out the realism debate, people who drive MAINLY in this mode would have to take a refresher test before being allowed onto what is now the normal S2 mode servers.
*runs and hides from the flaming*

3) This is probably very unworkable. BUT I was reading the ghost mode/late joiners thread, and came up with the idea. What if the car was stationary in the garage to all the people in the race, but the driver was practicing on-track in a car nobody could see? That way he/she wouldnt interfere with the racing. To stop the collisions issue, the collisions for the ghost car would ONLY affect the ghost car, for instance, if a driver drove through where it normally would be, the ghost car would be hit just as if it was in a race

DK

[AndroidXP]

1) Isn't that already implemented? :confused:

2) NO!

3) No.

[DieKolkrabe]

1) Not implemented. AFAIK there is only a max seconds thing...

2) You don't follow me. It would be a SEPERATE game-mode with SEPERATE servers. In effect there would be two types of LFS, the LFS we have now, and the one I was on about. Think of it as a brewing company producing two types of beer, one with less alcohol content than the other. That is what I am saying. It would still be LFS, just easier for people to drive. And if LFS is easier...more licenses. And more licenses = more people to race against, right? After all, you get bored driving against the same people day in, day out

3) Why not? I've given a solution to a problem of late race joiners. And as I posted somewhere, mid race joining DOES happen RL. Look at the sportscar series for example, the drivers taking over who didn't take the start. That is mid/late-race joining. Would you say 'oh, Pirro shouldn't be on track as he didn't take the start. He should stay in the garage until the end of the race'? It's (basically) the same situation here.

[keriz]

I like the 3rd one very much.

Gimme an hour I'll reply to the 2nd and 1st also.

[AndroidXP]

2) Yes I do follow you. There are no two "modes" in real life, no extra "dumbed down" mode for "messing around lol" is needed. If you want less powered cars, use intake restrictions. Also, don't drink and drive. Not even online. If you want an easier game for drunken sessions, please, there are plenty of arcade (=easier) titles available.

Besides that, I really don't want to race against people who can't handle the normal LFS physics. Actually right now there are quite a lot of people who can't, no need to get more of 'em.

3) Mid-race joins happen in real life. They work in real life without the joiner wrecking everybody on the track. So the same must also be possible in LFS, without adding an arcade ghost car mod where somehow the mid-race joiner is there but really isn't. I'd rather remove/educate the people who fail at joining without wrecking, than implementing 200 defensive features just to make sure the worst possible driver doesn't wreck.


LFS development time is restricted enough as it is.

[DieKolkrabe]

I like the 3rd one very much.

Gimme an hour I'll reply to the 2nd and 1st also.

You haff 10 minutes....:P


LFS is a racing simulator, YES? A simulator aims to be realistic. But no simulator can EVER be 100% realistic. There is a quote buried somewhere either on these forums or at RSC that we sit at a screen, with what basically is a child's toy, driving a virtual car round a virtual track all day and feel good about it. How is that realistic? Oh, SURE you have the Frex, but how many people a) can afford one and b) have somewhere to put it?

Also, a simulator HAS to work with the confines of the platform it is on. E.g. commercial flight simulators DO NOT model every single system, simply because most of the ones that are left out, aren't used in the type of simulation required. By the same token, a racing simulator can never be 100% realistic. There will always be concessions to the platform it is on/the way people use to control it.

The 'hardcore' mode many of you want/expect from the devs will do nothing but turn people away if it is implemented. As it stands now, LFS is a pick up and play simulator/game - I use both words because it is seen by both things by differing groups of people - and that is a key element in why people like it. If you take that away, the number of racers will fall. We already have 200+ servers sitting idle. I'm not pointing fingers and blaming anyone here, but if some people would post less and race more, we'd a) have a wider audience of racers and b) have less flamefests on the forums.

Also, the 'hardcore' mode will cause more tensions in the community. Look at the way people view cruise servers. Personally, I don't have a problem with them, they set out to do a job and they do it. Can you imagine the rifts between hardcore mode users and people who don't use it? There's already enough realism nazis on this forum who sneer at anyone who suggests anything that's not realistic. Here is a tip to them: Back off. Concentrate on your own race, not on ruining everyone elses race with elitist options that only YOU want. Have you ever stopped and put yourself in a new racer's shoes, coming onto the forums and asking for something that could help a new racer learn LFS?


*takes off fake beard*

[tristancliffe]

2 and 3 are quite possible the worst suggestions I've ever heard for LFS.

Fortunately, Scawen isn't a complete tool, and will never ever consider them.

so no need to talk about them anymore. We'll just pretend you never said anything, and try to stop giggling.

[Blackout]

WTF?! Honestly. WTF!

We don't even have hardcore mode, and we never will have, because there is only going to be one mode and you need to live with that. Having dummed down mode would generate more tension than having something more close to realism (damage etc.) because there would be the two types of racing servers.

Besides, what would be the point having lets say 79% realistic game, and then make a 32% version? That's like having beer with water. LFS is intended to be a racing simulation, with only one single mode. Sure, you can call me a elitistic realism nazi, but we are what we are because we know it should be part of the game and would change the racing to something much more interesting.



And WTF!?

[keriz]

Wow, dude, it was a suggestion for gods sake, get off his back.

He didn't ask for flaming, he wanted to know if they were a good idea or not.

[AndroidXP]

That's exactly what he got in the first reply. Then he asked for reasons/debate, and he got reasons and debate. :shrug:

[Blackout]

Wow, dude, it was a suggestion for gods sake, get off his back.

He didn't ask for flaming, he wanted to know if they were a good idea or not.

Oh, sorry! I forgot to add smileys to soften the blow.

[Dajmin]

I'm with the majority on this one.

I don't see the point in #2. If you want a lower-powered car, drive a lower-powered car or use the already-active intake restrictor. Once the balancing is in place, you could always just put that as the maximum limit and leave people to reduce it further if they wanted. But I can't really see why anyone would use this. It removes you from the competition. People have (or will have) the single-player mode if they want to drive without consideration for anyone else.

#3 is a little weird. In theory it might work but again seems like caving to the people who can't drive properly. Those people need taught how to enter from the pit lane, not encouraged to hotlap and never interact with other vehicles.

[TAYLOR-MANIA]

1) Add in a feature to disable restart/end race voting or make it admin only.

Yes, I'm all for this. Wasn't this possible in older versions? I think I remember an admin being able to cancel restarts. Pity it can't be done anymore?

2) Everyone is banging on about realism. Which I understand. But why can't there be a semi-sim type mode, for people who may want to race/are drunk/high/just got home from work and are stressed/etc. I don't mean having braking help, or anything like that. I mean making the cars and tracks easier ONLY in this mode, possibly by reducing the power of the cars by 10-20hp. And to balance out the realism debate, people who drive MAINLY in this mode would have to take a refresher test before being allowed onto what is now the normal S2 mode servers.
*runs and hides from the flaming*

Nope, that's a bad idea! There shouldn't be two modes of any kind.
And a refresher test? God no.

3) This is probably very unworkable. BUT I was reading the ghost mode/late joiners thread, and came up with the idea. What if the car was stationary in the garage to all the people in the race, but the driver was practicing on-track in a car nobody could see? That way he/she wouldnt interfere with the racing. To stop the collisions issue, the collisions for the ghost car would ONLY affect the ghost car, for instance, if a driver drove through where it normally would be, the ghost car would be hit just as if it was in a race

Again, not a good idea. Mid-race joiners are no problem if they are sensible. Deal with it. I see clearing the traffic as an extra challenge. Makes it more interesting, a 'wild-card' if you will.

[mrodgers]

Suggestion #1 would make a server completely useless when an admin is not around. 99.9% of the servers do not have admins on them.

[DieKolkrabe]

Yes, I'm all for this. Wasn't this possible in older versions? I think I remember an admin being able to cancel restarts. Pity it can't be done anymore?

Not AFAIK

Nope, that's a bad idea! There shouldn't be two modes of any kind.
And a refresher test? God no.



Again, not a good idea. Mid-race joiners are no problem if they are sensible. Deal with it. I see clearing the traffic as an extra challenge. Makes it more interesting, a 'wild-card' if you will.

And therein lies the problem. 'If they are sensible'. How many midrace joiners are sensible?

Suggestion #1 would make a server completely useless when an admin is not around. 99.9% of the servers do not have admins on them.

That could be a problem. I was going to put another suggestion. So here it goes

4) Levels of admins.

Server owners/admins could give levels of admins to TRUSTED racers, e.g. only being able to restart/end races, allowed to change the car and track combos. The reason I say 'trusted' is because if everyone had access to it, it'd quickly descend into hell...

[DieKolkrabe]

Yes, I'm all for this. Wasn't this possible in older versions? I think I remember an admin being able to cancel restarts. Pity it can't be done anymore?



Nope, that's a bad idea! There shouldn't be two modes of any kind.
And a refresher test? God no.



Again, not a good idea. Mid-race joiners are no problem if they are sensible. Deal with it. I see clearing the traffic as an extra challenge. Makes it more interesting, a 'wild-card' if you will.

AFAIK, there is no way to block a restart/end race vote

And therein lies the problem. 'If they are sensible'. How many midrace joiners are sensible?

Suggestion #1 would make a server completely useless when an admin is not around. 99.9% of the servers do not have admins on them.

That could be a problem. I was going to put another suggestion. So here it goes

4) Levels of admins.

Server owners/admins could give levels of admins to TRUSTED racers, e.g. only being able to restart/end races, allowed to change the car and track combos. The reason I say 'trusted' is because if everyone had access to it, it'd quickly descend into hell...

[garph]

4) Levels of admins.

Server owners/admins could give levels of admins to TRUSTED racers, e.g. only being able to restart/end races, allowed to change the car and track combos. The reason I say 'trusted' is because if everyone had access to it, it'd quickly descend into hell...
There just isn't going to be enough people around all of the time to do something like that. Plus the more you give out the password the more it could be abused :shrug:

[DieKolkrabe]

Hence the different levels of admins, if a level 1 admin tried to do something a level 5 admin could block that command.

DK

[The Very End]

I disagree with those suggestions. A second realism mode in LFS would 1 - be strange, 2 - impossible to make right.
But as people mentioned, it`s only a suggestion, no need to go crazy banana :sadbanana

[garph]

Hence the different levels of admins, if a level 1 admin tried to do something a level 5 admin could block that command.

DK
It's just over complicating it, levels of admins, admins blocking other admins......

Anyway, the point is you'd still have to give out password to a lot of different people, which could lead to problems.

[bbman]

And therein lies the problem. 'If they are sensible'. How many midrace joiners are sensible?

Many more than you can count... Problem is, you won't notice the decent ones, as you wouldn't notice any drifter on here if he doesn't start off with something like "I want teh drift trackzorz!" or "Dorifto is way faster than gripping!"...

[Aiden McGeady]

Forget suggestion #2, I have an even better idea.

Have an admin option that makes it so all the cars on the track have a top speed of 40 km/h, including the BF1. That would make for some UNBELIEVABLY THRILLING, ACTION-PACKED, FURIOUS RACING!!!

[de Souza]

1) Hmm, maybe...

2) No, we already have plenty of driving/racing games/simulators/whatever. So pick the one you'll feel more confortable at the moment. Why split one of the best in two, so it's not one of the best anymore?

3) No, mid-race joiners are part of our "life". Get used to it.

:tilt:

[mrodgers]

3) No, mid-race joiners are part of our "life". Get used to it.:tilt:
So is poorly modeled damage, the aero model, pitstops, shall I go on? Mid-race joining is a problem that needs and can be improved upon. No need to "get used to it."

Why are we getting improvements to the AI in the next patch? The current AI problems are "part of our life." Shouldn't we have just gotten use to it?

[Aiden McGeady]

Why are we getting improvements to the AI in the next patch? The current AI problems are "part of our life." Shouldn't we have just gotten use to it?


I might be straying away from the subject, but I need to say that the AI really does need improvements. It's impossible to have a fair race against the AI right now. Currently, the AI only serves one purpose, wrecker avoidance practise.

[mrodgers]

I might be straying away from the subject, but I need to say that the AI really does need improvements. It's impossible to have a fair race against the AI right now. Currently, the AI only serves one purpose, wrecker avoidance practise.
The current AI are a part of LFS and a part of our "life", just as de Souza stated about the mid-race joiners. Deal with it!

I was making a point about how you don't have to "deal with it" because it can and should be improved upon. "Deal with it" doesn't cut it with me about mid-race joiners and the actions of some who think they should be involved in the race. It can be improved upon rather than "dealing with it."

[bbman]

My above point still stands... Surely we don't need to waste Scawen's resources on some pointless dimensional rift just so you won't have to deal with a minority of idiots who can be spotted a mile away anyway...

[nikimere]

I've been away from LFS for a few months... Looks like the stupid suggestions are still around anyway... :razz:

[de Souza]

So is poorly modeled damage, the aero model, pitstops, shall I go on? Mid-race joining is a problem that needs and can be improved upon. No need to "get used to it."
Why does it need to be improved?

Why are we getting improvements to the AI in the next patch? The current AI problems are "part of our life." Shouldn't we have just gotten use to it?
Not at all. Mid-race joining is not Scawen's fault, so to speak... It's ours. We join because we want, don't we? If some late joiner crashes the leader in the last lap it's his (crasher's) responsability and he will have to deal with the consequences - just the same as if he crashes the leader in the last lap when he's in second place. In the end there's already blue flags and a "no mid-race join" feature, so I don't see why we need to change this...

[MijnWraak]

:banana::bananadea

[wsinda]

3) This is probably very unworkable. BUT I was reading the ghost mode/late joiners thread, and came up with the idea. What if the car was stationary in the garage to all the people in the race, but the driver was practicing on-track in a car nobody could see? That way he/she wouldnt interfere with the racing.
At first I liked the suggestion very much. It would not only be nice for mid-race joiners, to do some warming up until the next restart. It could also be the ideal "noob mode", where people who are new to the car/track combo can practice following the pack, overtaking others, etc. without fear of screwing up someone else's race.

However, there is a tiny problem...
To stop the collisions issue, the collisions for the ghost car would ONLY affect the ghost car, for instance, if a driver drove through where it normally would be, the ghost car would be hit just as if it was in a raceThen, the ghost driver would have to go out of his way to avoid the others, because (a) they can't see him, but (b) they can knock him off the track, unknowingly.

IMHO it would be better if it were really a ghost car, without any collisions. (Then again, this looks like it will be a lot of work for Scawen, so it'll probably end up at the bottom if the priorities list.)

[CSU1]

...shuda just went t bed DK:shy::nod:(j/k)

[DieKolkrabe]

At first I liked the suggestion very much. It would not only be nice for mid-race joiners, to do some warming up until the next restart. It could also be the ideal "noob mode", where people who are new to the car/track combo can practice following the pack, overtaking others, etc. without fear of screwing up someone else's race.

However, there is a tiny problem...
Then, the ghost driver would have to go out of his way to avoid the others, because (a) they can't see him, but (b) they can knock him off the track, unknowingly.

IMHO it would be better if it were really a ghost car, without any collisions. (Then again, this looks like it will be a lot of work for Scawen, so it'll probably end up at the bottom if the priorities list.)

I was thinking that myself

...shuda just went t bed DK:shy::nod:(j/k)

I'm insomniac. You know that. And I'd been on a 12hr coffee streak