Pleaseee...help, poll about video cards

[gp4racer]

I need your help!!! I’ve a nvidia agp 32 mB and I want to buy a new video card, my fps are pretty low with 12 cars...
some of them are,

#1 ATI RADEON 9250 128MB AGP TV OUT
#2 ATI RADEON 9250 256MB AGP TV OUT
#3 ATI RADEON X300SE 128MB PCI EXPRESS
#4 VIDEO GEFORCE FX5200 256MB AGP TV OUT
#5 GEFORCE MX4000 128MB AGP TV OUT

Many thanks!

[MadCatX]

If your performace is poor like you say, I am afraid that a new videocard won't help you. LFS heavy loads CPU, but videocard is quite sleeping. Maybe you should post whole PC spec. to give us a clue what you should improve.

But if I'd have to choose one of card you posed, I'll take GF FX5200....
Important is HVS(Hardware Vertex Shaders) support. This takes some load off CPU and let videocars to do it.(GPU with HVS support can unfold 3D scene to triangles, if GPU cannot do it, then CPU have to do it instead it. Correct me someone if I am not exact GPU-Graphic Processor Unit, if someone don't know:))

[gp4racer]

hmm, i thought that a new card can be useful....My pc its a pentium IV 1.8 Ghz...

[ButterTyres]

A new card will help, but it wont really help the 12 car grid situation. It will allow you to run higher resolutions with greater detail, but the CPU does the work with multiple local-cars. Its also used a bit when playing online with large grids.

[al heeley]

I can say from experience that a CPU upgrade will really help boost the performance of LFS, it is very processor-hungry. I upgraded from a 2mhz to a 3.2 P4 and my fps went from 15 to 55.
I then upgraded my graphics card from a Geforce 4 to a PCIExpress Radeon 960 and fps went from 55 to 60.

[ORION]

I would rather get a 9700pro or 9800pro with 128MB
Those cards in the list above are not worth their money if you ask me.

[gp4racer]

I would rather get a 9700pro or 9800pro with 128MB
Those cards in the list above are not worth their money if you ask me.

Yep, it worth less than I figured out...

the pc's performance its the big deal with this game, I got GTR and my framerates are around 30 - 35, and the game runs quite smooth....

[AndroidXP]

It depends on what graphics card you have now. If it is a GeForce2 or a GeForce4 MX then I'd go with a newer GFX card. Probably a good value for your money would be an Ati 9600-9800 Pro, or if it can be a bit better even a GF 6600 GT. If you can get your hands on a cheap GF4 Ti 4600 or something that would also be good. Don't go for the GF 5*** FX series, they are utter crap.

If you have a graphics card that IS capable of HVS (again, everything > GF2/GF4-MX) then I'd go for a CPU upgrade. LFS isn't very graphics demanding, besides needing a HVS capable GFX card. It's much much more reliant on raw CPU power to calculate all those physics.

[Tooby]

Hi!
I went all the way...
I had a 1.7 Ghz with a MX2 card (i think?), the computer was stumbeling a 5-20 fps. then I bought new motherboard(aopen i915ga-e) with onboard graphics and a Intel p4 3.0 dual core. This made lfs to run at 45 fps. Then I bought a graphics card, ASUS extreme N6600GT and when I enabeld "hardware vertex shading", "24bit" depth and 1600x1200 I now have 92 fps. In my case the graphics gard made huge difference. I could not enable vertex shading before.

/Tooby

[gp4racer]

It depends on what graphics card you have now. If it is a GeForce2 or a GeForce4 MX then I'd go with a newer GFX card. Probably a good value for your money would be an Ati 9600-9800 Pro, or if it can be a bit better even a GF 6600 GT. If you can get your hands on a cheap GF4 Ti 4600 or something that would also be good. Don't go for the GF 5*** FX series, they are utter crap.

If you have a graphics card that IS capable of HVS (again, everything > GF2/GF4-MX) then I'd go for a CPU upgrade. LFS isn't very graphics demanding, besides needing a HVS capable GFX card. It's much much more reliant on raw CPU power to calculate all those physics.

I have a Nvidia G force 400mxmx, agp, 32 mB, and with my actual PC, I got 10-20 fps.

[gp4racer]

Hi!
I went all the way...
I had a 1.7 Ghz with a MX2 card (i think?), the computer was stumbeling a 5-20 fps. then I bought new motherboard(aopen i915ga-e) with onboard graphics and a Intel p4 3.0 dual core. This made lfs to run at 45 fps. Then I bought a graphics card, ASUS extreme N6600GT and when I enabeld "hardware vertex shading", "24bit" depth and 1600x1200 I now have 92 fps. In my case the graphics gard made huge difference. I could not enable vertex shading before.

/Tooby

Thats my point!! with a very good card I hope to get a good increase on the fps. After all, my idea is to buy a new computer as soon as I can do it.

[AndroidXP]

I have a Nvidia G force 400mxmx, agp, 32 mB, and with my actual PC, I got 10-20 fps.
Ok, this is really the weak link in your system then. The problem is that your card doesn't support Hardware Vertex Shading, which decreases performance considerably. Any better card that supports this should give you already a pretty good gain in FPS.

[gp4racer]

Ok, this is really the weak link in your system then. The problem is that your card doesn't support Hardware Vertex Shading, which decreases performance considerably. Any better card that supports this should give you already a pretty good gain in FPS.

OK AndroidXP, thats the choice

[gp4racer]

It depends on what graphics card you have now. If it is a GeForce2 or a GeForce4 MX then I'd go with a newer GFX card. Probably a good value for your money would be an Ati 9600-9800 Pro, or if it can be a bit better even a GF 6600 GT. If you can get your hands on a cheap GF4 Ti 4600 or something that would also be good. Don't go for the GF 5*** FX series, they are utter crap.

If you have a graphics card that IS capable of HVS (again, everything > GF2/GF4-MX) then I'd go for a CPU upgrade. LFS isn't very graphics demanding, besides needing a HVS capable GFX card. It's much much more reliant on raw CPU power to calculate all those physics.


I'm looking if the GEFORCE FX5200 256MB AGP have this feature (HVS)

[tristancliffe]

Yes it does. Anything newer than GF2 supports it (as AndroidXP stated).

[ButterTyres]

Android also said that the 5xxx series is "utter crap"

I dont know about that myself, never seen one in action.

Get a 9800 pro or 6600GT if you want a decent card that will last a little while.

[tristancliffe]

Android also said that the 5xxx series is "utter crap"
He's not wrong! :x

[MadCatX]

FX series card are a little messed, but for LFS they are enough. LFS won't use PixelShader 2.0,. NormalMapCompression and so on. HVS can help you as I said in my first post here. But I think that you'd have to save some more money and get Radeon9600XT when you'll be able to do it. FX5200 is really bottlenecked card and its GPU cannot accelerate 3D scene unfolding as fast as Radeon9600 can. OK Radeon9600 is based on old ATI chip and it'll not be fast in modern hi-end graphics games like FarCry or F.E.A.R., but its GPU can do HVS much faster than FX5200

For comparation:
Radeon9600XT core@500MHz, mem@600MHz 4/1 (pixel/texture unit)
FX5200 core@250MHz, mem@400MHz 4/1

So which is faster???

And BTW, video memory of graphic card WILL NOT play any role in LFS...

[huxorator]

I would chose a Radeon 9800pro. Performs very well, even with other, more GPU based games. You can still use it if you decide to upgrade your whole computer system, the 5200FX wouldn't give you much joy once you bought yourself a new PC.

[gp4racer]

yeeah guys, give me the last advice...

ATI RADEON 9250 128MB AGP TV OUT

ATI RADEON 9250 256MB AGP TV OUT

ATI RADEON X300SE 128MB PCI EXPRESS

TARJETA VIDEO ATI RADEON 7000 64MB PCI TV OUT DUAL

THANKS AGAIN
The true about g force cards is because I always has been used this chip on my pc's

[Tooby]

And BTW, video memory of graphic card WILL NOT play any role in LFS...

...so if I don't have a graphic card LFS will run anyway?
(as I wrote before: It changed my fps from 45 to 92 by changing from onboard graphic to a N6600GT)

[Stellios]

To be honest, stick with what you have an invest in something better when it becomes affordable, you have an OKish CPU that should cope with something like a 9700pro or 9800pro, any more will probably bottleneck your system.

Keep your cash and upgrade your GFX card when you have money, as none of those cards will give a significant improvement over what you have already. You might be better off adding a bit more RAM if your looking for a cheaper option, providing you dont have much of it already.

Your PC isnt compatible with the X300 mate, its a PCI-E card, not AGP, and the only reason i know of that people still use a Radeon 7000 PCI slot card for is if they have more than 2 monitors. Also, on a low end card like your looking at, more video memory will make little to no difference, so if it has to be one of those 4 cards, then the 9250 128mb, unless the 256mb version is only a few euros/pounds/dollars more.

[gp4racer]

I got it, but at the end of the day I never gonna be happy with a wrong choice...i dont find reasonable spend US$ 150 in a video card, i'll prefer save that money and buy a better pc

[MadCatX]

...so if I don't have a graphic card LFS will run anyway?
(as I wrote before: It changed my fps from 45 to 92 by changing from onboard graphic to a N6600GT)

NO, but i915 INTERGATED graphic controller is SLOOOW ASS, so changing to 6600GT which is 10x faster (i915 3DMark score 800, 6600GT has 9300) WILL affect peformance. But VIDEO MEMORY affect perf. only in games that uses a lot of textures, normal mapping, pixel shaders etc, not LFS which uses from GPU "only" HVS

[himself]

Simply : more GPU memory causes less exchange of data between graphic card memory and RAM, here comes an issue of AGP speed and PCI-Express. In some games that loads a lot of textures you can feel half-a-second break when you're comming into a room with new textures in it.

DON'T BUY GEFORCE MX4000 128MB AGP TV OUT. I suppose it's the only card on the list that does not have pixel shader and vertex shader pipelines.

Important is HVS(Hardware Vertex Shaders) support. This takes some load off CPU and let videocars to do it.(GPU with HVS support can unfold 3D scene to triangles, if GPU cannot do it, then CPU have to do it instead it. Correct me someone if I am not exact GPU-Graphic Processor Unit, if someone don't know:))

Not exactly. Vertex shaders are small programs run by GPU usually moving or transformating vertexes (points the triangles are made of). Before shader technology all vertex moving and rotation, ragdoll effects, and physics were done by CPU. Now these effects are done by VShaders. Of course not all physics but deformations or cloth effects (see flags or cloths in SW Battlefront 2) are 90% done on HVS.

Pixel shaders are small programs that transform pixels. For example moving some pixels in some other place like heat haze effect in Far Cry, Doom3. Doing some lighting - DOT3 bump mapping, emboss lighting (light reflecting from surfaces). I suppose all lights in Doom3 were implemented on pixel shaders.

Hope some new air haze over the asphalt will be implemented in LFS. It'd be cool.


....sorry for bad english :(

[marsden1002]

I need your help!!! I’ve a nvidia agp 32 mB and I want to buy a new video card, my fps are pretty low with 12 cars...
some of them are,

#1 ATI RADEON 9250 128MB AGP TV OUT
#2 ATI RADEON 9250 256MB AGP TV OUT
#3 ATI RADEON X300SE 128MB PCI EXPRESS
#4 VIDEO GEFORCE FX5200 256MB AGP TV OUT
#5 GEFORCE MX4000 128MB AGP TV OUT

Many thanks!


The Ati Radeon 9250 256mb - Im affraid i own one. Preformance is OK. I run around 25-35FPS on a full grid from the line, and runs between 35-50fps.

My system is an Athlon 64 3000+, 1024MB ram

Cheers,

[gp4racer]

My actual video card drops to 8-10 fps, with full grid and the start line...when i driving alone, and with the view of the driver and visible tyres, rise until 40 fps...

very weird, but this game its great!!

[jaimi]

Now Im confused, my system is a
2.4GHz Pent 4
256 6600le
1024meg ram
ont mention hard disc stuff as not to important, nonthe less sata is involved. I have a measly 15fps on a full grisd and a woping 100 (if i pull the LOD(whatever that is) down to minimum), when just me, now i need to find a way to sort this any suggestions?

[contourSVT]

. Don't go for the GF 5*** FX series, they are utter crap.
.I know it's really a low end card but i have one and i do have to defend it..

for the 40 bucks i paid for it I'm satisfied.. I get 100fps in the dash veiw in S1 (havent tested it with full grid) and i get 60-70fps dash veiw in s2 (25-35fps with 10-12 cars)..

its a decent card for 40 bucks, but if i had the money to go better, i'd definetly choose that choice.

[the_angry_angel]

Now Im confused, my system is a
2.4GHz Pent 4
256 6600le
1024meg ram
ont mention hard disc stuff as not to important, nonthe less sata is involved. I have a measly 15fps on a full grisd and a woping 100 (if i pull the LOD(whatever that is) down to minimum), when just me, now i need to find a way to sort this any suggestions?I'd hazard a guess its likely to be the 6600le. They're not known to be the best cards in the word - admitedly I havent had one, but they're supposed to be fairly slow. With the transparent windows now in LFS this *could* cause a problem. In theory.

A few solutions:

start playing with graphics settings in LFS - there could be a setting combination for you in there
temporarily swap out the 6660LE with a friend and see if you can get any change in performance
Out of interest, is the AGP slot running at full speed? That should be an 8x card.Do these problems always occur? Or does it get worse over time?

[MadCatX]

Are other games running OK? I don't know what is 6600LE, but whatever it is, it MUST be able to run LFS smoothly. run 3DMark03(http://www.futuremark.com) and post your results. Also try to send us your WHOLE system spec(Motherboard, Soundcard, driver versions....). I think we'll be able to help you.....

Not exactly. Vertex shaders are small programs run by GPU usually moving or transformating vertexes (points the triangles are made of). Before shader technology all vertex moving and rotation, ragdoll effects, and physics were done by CPU. Now these effects are done by VShaders. Of course not all physics but deformations or cloth effects (see flags or cloths in SW Battlefront 2) are 90% done on HVS.
Thx for correction....:), I gonna update my knowledge...

[MrGrumpy]

I recently replaced my Prophet 2 MX 32MB with an ATI Radeon 9550 256MB (it was < £50) and increased my FPS from 15-20 to between 40 & 60 depending upon how many other cars are running.

My rig is AMD XP2000 512MB DDR not o/c.

Apparently, the 9550 is pretty good for overclocking, but I haven't felt the need.

[jaimi]

I'd hazard a guess its likely to be the 6600le. They're not known to be the best cards in the word - admitedly I havent had one, but they're supposed to be fairly slow. With the transparent windows now in LFS this *could* cause a problem. In theory.

A few solutions:
start playing with graphics settings in LFS - there could be a setting combination for you in there
temporarily swap out the 6660LE with a friend and see if you can get any change in performance
Out of interest, is the AGP slot running at full speed? That should be an 8x card.Do these problems always occur? Or does it get worse over time?

Over time, Ive played with the settings (i would have gone better GFX but all my retailers around me suck). I have put the priority on LFS up to "Realtime" and get arounds 5-10 FPS better but its a strange one as i can play a server thats packed and it runs great, log out turn off pc and then come back on a while later, again back to the same server with all the same drvers and its 5-10FPS time.

Would updating to PCI-x give any better performance or just a CPU upgrade do it?

[jaimi]

Are other games running OK? I don't know what is 6600LE, but whatever it is, it MUST be able to run LFS smoothly. run 3DMark03(http://www.futuremark.com) and post your results. Also try to send us your WHOLE system spec(Motherboard, Soundcard, driver versions....). I think we'll be able to help you.....


Thx for correction....:), I gonna update my knowledge...

here are my sytem specks

[the_angry_angel]

Over time, Ive played with the settings (i would have gone better GFX but all my retailers around me suck). I have put the priority on LFS up to "Realtime" and get arounds 5-10 FPS better but its a strange one as i can play a server thats packed and it runs great, log out turn off pc and then come back on a while later, again back to the same server with all the same drvers and its 5-10FPS time. I'm willing to bet that theres something screwy running on boot, or possibly some dodgy RAM, especially if its ok sometimes and not others.

Would updating to PCI-x give any better performance or just a CPU upgrade do it?Depending on whats causing it, yes, but remember you need a PCI-x slot to put that card in.

[MadCatX]

Woohoo, there is A LOT of backgound tasks runnung on your system(about 50, I have 32 at the moment) . Check TaskManager(rightclick on taskbar -> select Task Manager) and try to shut down everything what you will be able to shut down. Also go to BIOS and enable HyperThreadnig there, it may help.

Run virusscanner, the best way is to run test "after restart" - testing starts before Windows finished booting(Avast! can do this, www.avast.com)

And at last, I see you have a C-Media audio, I have newer version and I have some problems with it. Press SHIFT+N in LFS, it will cut all sound calculations. If you framerate will boost by this(frames grows always when you cut sound - less CPU load, so let us know how much did it helped), disable HW sound acceleration in DXDIAG(Start -> Run -> type DXDIAG).

The last thing what you can do is to lend some disk(if you dont want to format) and do clean install....

[jaimi]

Okay i got hacked off with it yesterday and called in support (stax dad, always helps to have a pc tech in the family). I had it in bits and tried different ram and older cards to no avail. I was going to do a blank and rebuild but could not be arsed.

Killed of alot of things booting up using msconfig (i love that tool), still nought happened. much anger on my part.

So deleted LFS and did a fresh Download and install. And walla (did not have to unlock for some reason but cool) much better frame rate. Thanks for all your help.

one question tho. why does blackwood have a really bad frame rate compaired to other tracks?


ps tried the sound card thing and got worse frame rate for disabling hardware support. but changed to normal instead of full and that seems best. thanks for that.:thumb:

thanks for all the help gouranga and be happy.

merry humbug

[MadCatX]

Maybe some textures in old LFS dir were corrupted or your CFG files messed somehow. Clean installation corrected it all.... congratulations.... :)