Carbon Fiber Brakes [Archive]

GaB

11th October 2007, 09:50

Carbon fiber brakes for all cars would be wicked. Carbon fiber brakes are usually what f1 cars use, and its the little initial d effect that shows when brakes are pressed..
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7656/12222vu0.jpg

fragile_dog

11th October 2007, 09:53

I imagine that effect happens what ever the brake pad material is made of. And I would suspect the higher speced race cars already have carbon fiber brake pads, even if not named.

Jakg

11th October 2007, 09:55

Isn't it Carbon Ceraminc?

I think CF brakes would be pretty crap.

Brake Glow will come when brake heat/wear is added i'd imagine.

I don't see why all cars would have them though - apart from the GTR's, the BF1 and the FO8 and maybe the FZ5 would be the only cars that might have such expensive brakes.

fragile_dog

11th October 2007, 09:58

No, its carbon fiber :P But theres also ceramics aswell.

thisnameistaken

11th October 2007, 10:19

Isn't it Carbon Ceraminc?

O/T: Apparently some company in the northwest just came up with a new procedure for making ceramic brakes - they're calling them "ceramic ceramic" and they're much harder and smoother than carbon ceramic material.

One of my partners had a little tour around the factory last week. Apparently temperature isn't important - they perform just as well cold - and the engineer described them as "practically indestructible".

They'll be supplying them to one F1 team next year, but he wouldn't say which.

tristancliffe

11th October 2007, 10:38

Aren't F1 car brakes CFRC - Carbon Fiber Reinforced Carbon?

Crazy Harry

11th October 2007, 10:50

No. Carbon Fibre Reinforced Carbon can be used for bodys.

Siliciumcarbide is used in brakes. It´s - like a diamond - not in fibre structure.

tristancliffe

11th October 2007, 11:03

"Whereas typical road cars use cast-iron brake discs with an organic brake pad, an F1 car uses a material known as "carbon-carbon" for both the disc and the pad. Composed of carbon fiber within a carbon matrix, carbon-carbon is often used in airplane brakes. Carbon-carbon has two advantages over alternative braking materials; it is much lighter and has a much higher coefficient of friction if used at the correct operating temperature"

Source: http://www.cd-adapco.com/press_room/dynamics/24/renault.html

If you meant Silicon Carbide, I don't that's in F1 brake technology (at least in the majority).

z3r0c00l

11th October 2007, 11:16

Correct operating temperature is right.... if you've never driven a car with these things on, you'll be in for a nasty suprise if you use em cold!

Gunn

11th October 2007, 13:01

I think they take about 2 years to make the F1 ones IRL (please correct me if I'm wrong), so there is plenty of time to develop this feature in LFS.

OK, so I'm not funny.

The Very End

11th October 2007, 13:09

- 1.

I don`t like the idea. Well of course, eyecandy is allways nice and fun to have, but I don`t see the need for implent it into LFS.

Well to say it other way, I agree that the BF1 could have it, but thats it.

Gunn

11th October 2007, 13:11

..... and its the little initial d effect that shows when brakes are pressed..
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7656/12222vu0.jpg

Steel discs can glow too, not just CF. :)

Crazy Harry

11th October 2007, 13:47

tristancliffe

11th October 2007, 15:23

Googling hasn't (quickly) turned up much on Silicium carbide... Can you post some informative links about it (in English) please.

Shotglass

11th October 2007, 15:57

And... NO I do not mean silicon carbide.

dude ... silicon is the english word for silicium

not to be confused with silicone which is the stuff you put into breasts
the similarity has lead to many humorous mistakes my favourite being silicon wafers (the plates chips are built on) translated to german as silikon waffeln (silicone waffles)

Crazy Harry

11th October 2007, 16:46

Your right shotglass.

Silicone is often mistakenly referred to as "silicon".

But the name makes no difference. :shrug:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_carbide

tristancliffe

11th October 2007, 17:22

A couple of clicks = "Reinforced Carbon-Carbon (carbon-carbon or RCC) is a composite material consisting of carbon fiber reinforcement in a matrix of graphite, often with a silicon carbide coating to prevent oxidation. "

So it is Carbon Fiber Reinforced Carbon, which is what I said.

Crazy Harry

11th October 2007, 19:26

Oh that was nothing against you tc, your right, it´s just about the fact that this is not fibre.

Production
The material is made in three stages:
First, material is laid up in its intended final shape, with carbon filament and/or cloth surrounded by an organic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_compound) binder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binder_%28material%29) such as plastic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic) or pitch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch_%28resin%29). Often, coke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coke_%28fuel%29) or some other fine carbon aggregate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggregate_%28composite%29) is added to the binder mixture.
Second, the lay-up is heated, so that pyrolysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis) transforms the binder to relatively pure carbon. The binder loses volume in the process, so that voids form; the addition of aggregate reduces this problem, but does not eliminate it.
Third, the voids are gradually filled by forcing a carbon-forming gas such as acetylene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylene) through the material at a high temperature, over the course of several days....

So it´s a solid structure.

thisnameistaken

11th October 2007, 19:33

First, material is laid up in its intended final shape, with carbon filament and/or cloth ...

Isn't "filament" or "cloth" made up of "fibres"? :shrug:

Ball Bearing Turbo

11th October 2007, 19:57

Steel discs can glow too, not just CF. :)

I don't think I've ever seen that, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure they "could' glow, but I think if you're causing a steel disc to glow than you have some other issues to worry about... I've seen red hot pad dust coming off of brakes, but never seen a steel disc glow :schwitz:

wark

12th October 2007, 01:57

I don't think I've ever seen that, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure they "could' glow, but I think if you're causing a steel disc to glow than you have some other issues to worry about... I've seen red hot pad dust coming off of brakes, but never seen a steel disc glow :schwitz:

Wow. Where have you been? :D

It has more to do with the thickness of the disc than material. It's just that those who need light (thin) brakes (that would be prone to glow) are intrinsically in the market for carbon/ceramic brakes.

But, yeah... I've seen (videos and pictures and forum posts) from plenty of people taking their stock cars (Audi TTs) out and making the brakes glow.

GaB

12th October 2007, 01:58

maybe if you heat em up enough steel brakes might heat up, i wanted for all cars, because im a demo racer ;p

wark

12th October 2007, 02:01

maybe if you heat em up enough steel brakes might heat up

Logical train of thought.

Bob Smith

12th October 2007, 12:45

Of course steel brakes can heat up and glow. I remember my mum left the handbrake on ever so slightly once and drove home, didn't understand why the fiesta was more sluggish than usual. As I got out the car I noticed the rear brakes were glowing a dull red. To think that was drums too. Mystery solved. :)

Logical train of thought.
Hehe. :D

xaotik

12th October 2007, 13:11

Oh that was nothing against you tc, your right, it´s just about the fact that this is not fibre.
...
So it´s a solid structure.

I don't know if you have any experience working with composite materials. But from what limited experience I have, mostly with carbon fibre, kevlar, fibreglass etc: all constructions end up as solid, even if they are just laminates - it's not so much the clothes of carbon (which are woven fibres) but what you put to impregnate the lay-up and bind them together.

In the case of lamination it would be an epoxy resin - in the case of the process described above is all the other stuff they mention.

In both cases the desired result is lack of air bubbles or "voids" as that wikipedia article mentions. Because most likely than not (and barring design flaws) those will be the reason the construction will fail.

Ofcourse it won't look "fibrous" - but then again even sturdy multi-layer carbon-epoxy laminates that shatter don't look fibrous. If it does then the lamination process was a failure and air got in there somewhere.

maybe if you heat em up enough steel brakes might heat up

A fascinating concept, isn't it?

[DUcK]

12th October 2007, 13:59

Logical train of thought.
hahah :D

Oh and I agree with Jakg (for once), it will come in time with brake wear, temps, etc. :nod:

Shotglass

12th October 2007, 14:10

Oh that was nothing against you tc, your right, it´s just about the fact that this is not fibre.

of course it is ... the fibre structure is the base of any carbon materials ability to handle stress

z3r0c00l

13th October 2007, 23:11

They sell F1 brake discs on ebay in the form of a novel clock, someone who has more money than i do buy one and take some close ups of the substance please....

edit:

ok so no clocks on atm, but I found this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CARBON-BRAKE-DISC-BMW-WILLIAMS-F1-TEAM-F1-247_W0QQitemZ130163216378QQihZ003QQcategoryZ2876QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Looking at it... I might even get a nice rear wing from their BMW, for my BMW... and maybe a nose cone to keep balanced handling... I'm going to win all teh street races now!

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u282/f1-247/A1Grouplow.jpg

[/sarcasm]

CodieMorgan

14th October 2007, 06:55

i guess no one read what crazy harry said?

anyhow....

... only in the physics... please

Dillyracer

14th October 2007, 08:20

Impreza WRX

16th October 2007, 03:45

My Cavalier has a Carbon-Kevlar (http://www.ultrarev.com/product.php?productid=31601) clutch... ;)

Takes a lot more abuse than the "heavy woolen organic thread" clutch that most cars come with stock.