Kyoto GP Cutting poll, layout or not

[danowat]

I'll throw this out there.........

I have been testing on KYGP for a few days now, and after something Vain said to me during testing, he prefered not to cut, I thought I would float the idea of a layout.

Basically, there are a number of oppurtunitys for large amounts of cutting on KY GP, personally, I would be happy to "install" a layout the limits this, but I don't want to do it without getting some feed back first.

So basically, layout to stop cutting, or not.....

[BlueFlame]

post a replay dan, of the different places where its possible to cut:thumb:
Then i'll judge, as i haven't done any laps at all :<

[speedway]

theres only 2 places i can think of where cutting could be possible

1. exiting the oval...only problem i see here is cutting over the sleeping policemen on the left....during my few practise sessions i accidentally ran too wide and went over the gravel pit...however i dont see the need for a layout here...dirt on the tires will slow down enough on the next lil right bend...however a layout might even punish the wrong people here (getting knocked off for example)

2. entering s/f...going straight over the sleeping policemen ...layout could be added here (dont use those nasty red/white barriers though)

btw: with the experience i had of past rssc races and the participating racers i dont think anyone would cut on purpose....maybe just make clear what you would consider cutting

[Vain]

I'd like to see a "Golden Cone" (new word!) at the chicane: Everyone who touches the cone receives a 1 point penalty. If the cone was already clipped and is then clipped by a second driver the second driver is lucky and receives no penalty. The cone should be placed so there is a small margin for error. If a driver attempts to keep two tyres on the tarmac he should not run the risk of touching the cone.
After the race a steward looks at the position of the cone in fast forward and writes down all infringements. That should be a relatively painless scrutineering process. I volunteer to skim through the quali or race replay if you need help.
If such a rule is introduced the drivers need to be briefed before quali though.

The inside of the chicane and the right kink right before pit-entry are the only places where cutting is of any advantage. Everywhere else the curbs are rather steep and unsettle the car enough to make it a trade-off that's just up to the driver.
I'd like to limit cutting at the chicane because it makes the section a lot more technical and even introduces a passing possibility.
On the right kink before the pit entry the cutting is less of an issue because it isn't dangerous there. I don't think a cut-prevention would do any good on that corner.

Vain

[Edit]
Here is an example of cutting prevention.

[Ghost_CZ]

My vote is the second one - leave the track as it is. I've learned the track HL valid - that means the fastest way, with little touch of thing on the ground with black-yellow stripes, which I don't know how to term.:shrug::) But I don't mind if you'll use layout - if you'll share it.

[P1lot]

Objects might be recommended for the oval exit, as long as it's something light that won't affect following drivers, such as the cone above. T7R server had some cones in that very spot while we practiced for the MoE, which helped us see the line since you come up on it so fast. Accidental cutting is easily done there.

1 point penalty seems a bit harsh. But repeated knocking of the cones is easy to spot and should be punished. I can't see any legitimate reason for anyone to cut the chicane before start/finish straight, should be no cutting allowed there.

[danowat]

I am not interesting in giving penalties, just trying to stop "unfair" advantage by cutting.

As far as I can see it there are 4 places.

1) At the end of the start/finish straight, the "speed humps" do not have enough of an effect to stop you going on them.

2) Coming onto the oval part, you can really swing out wide there.

3) Biggest one, the chicane after the oval

4) The chicane before the start/finish straight.

Of course, the layout would be posted asap

[P1lot]

You have a problem with the start of the oval? Does it matter if you cross the yellow line since the pits are not used and everyone is very similar speed there?

[danowat]

I don't have a problem per say, just trying to avoid complications.

[Bob Smith]

First option, makes allowable cutting unambiguous.

[BlueFlame]

I voted the second option, Vain's Idea is nice, but at least we can make use of the complaints thread, if anyone makes a boo-boo:D

[Hyperactive]

I'd like to see a "Golden Cone" (new word!) at the chicane: Everyone who touches the cone receives a 1 point penalty.

...

I really don't like the Golden Cone rule at all because I think it is imho better that the cutting is penalized immediatelly, by spin, crash or just losing time. I don't like the idea of adding objects and then counting collisions after the race and giving penalties based on what was a collision and what wasn't, when it was on purpose and when not.

Imho the easiest and best solution would be to add some hard stuff in the places where the cutting can be a problem. If you cut by accident or on purpose you get a penalty - damage. It doesn't imho matter at all whether it was on purpose or not. It is a driving error and in some cases it is just tough.

If it was about me only, I would make a layout that changes that corner into a much slower, different one. But lucky for you it is not about me :p

Everybody will try to go as near the apex as possible and putting a cone there is just asking for trouble. Especially when the corner itself is a very tough one. It is fast, there are very little clues for turn-in and going wide can make you lose lots of time.

The layout also gives you a graphical and physical limit on where you can drive. It defines the limits of the track where the track itself is vague. If you touch a layout object, may it be a tire or wall you may spin, crash or moonfly - or get away with it. If you make a mistake or someone else does - tough luck. If it is a racing incident then no penalties - if done on purpose - penalty. But it is decided right there by LFS and the result is unquestionable.

Also bear in mind that the chicane after the oval part has the tire clipping bug right next to the kerb. I haven't driven many laps yet but I bet that if you put your left tires in wrong place you can spin quite randomly. Everyone who has driven that corner in XRR know what that kerb can do :/

[danowat]

Something like this, obviously not finished, but you get the idea.

Obviously, the entry onto the oval has a "soft" barrier, but continual cutting will count as a breach (if I decide to use the layout)

[Ghost_CZ]

I've looked on the layout. My notes - tyres in first chicane - no problem. Cones at oncoming the oval - I really don't like this. You can really go wide there, but I think that this isn't major problem of KYGP. Look at F1s at Monza, when outcoming variante Ascari. They are going wide same as there, without any penalties. Chicane behind 2nd split - looks good, really nice prevention against cutting. Tyres in the last technical part of circuit before finish straight looks good too, but maybe tyres on left could be more distanced from track.

[danowat]

Ok, I'll remove the cones.

Trouble is, I have VERY little time to sort this out, so if I can't get it sealed up in a few days, I'll have to go without the layout and just trust that people drive without cutting purposely.

[spankmeyer]

...and just trust that people drive without cutting purposely.

Looking at the previous races, I think your league has been running great with self-regulated sportsmanship and gentlemen behavior so I wouldn't be too worried.

[BenjiMC]

same here, tbh this is probably the best bunch of racers in LFS in terms of sportsmanship. the league is almost like a big team :p. I wouldn't be too worried about the cutting possibilities, I also prefer tracks untouched as i dont think it worked too great when i did it in IGTC at FE.

[danowat]

I do agree, the RSSC bunch have been a top bunch all season :)

[BlueFlame]

except jack of course..:D no im only joking jack... :tilt:

[jwardy]

except jack of course..:D no im only joking jack... :tilt:
ha ha ha tbh i could cut it like mad and still be slower lol :) but no i wont cut any corners .