Frame Rate

[zoolpool]

Hi

I need some help with my frame rate. My rate is only 11 which makes the game work very poorly. i dont know why this has happened because when i had the demo it was at 31 and it was fine. i installed the latest patch i dont know if this has caused it.

can anybody help?

zoolpool

[the_angry_angel]

Which demo? The old S1 one, or the S2 Alpha?

[zoolpool]

it was the s2 demo, ithen unlocked it once for s1 then again one day later s2. i installed the patch a day after that
i did change the graphics to get rid of some lag on multiplayer but ive changed them back to the original

zoolpool

[the_angry_angel]

Do you only get it in multiplayer? Or single player as well?

[zoolpool]

everything, hot lapping, single player and multiplayer

zoolpool

[the_angry_angel]

Hmm.....thats an odd one.

Have you installed anything else since recently that maybe running in the background? What spec is your PC?

[zoolpool]

i have installed a new hard drive but lfs is on my other hard drive that i never touched! i could reinstall it but i would loose an unlock

zoolpool

[zoolpool]

Radeon 9000

256mb memory

2.00 ghz Intel Celeron
Do you need any other specs?

zoolpool

[the_angry_angel]

Hmm. My only comment would be that it might benefit from some more RAM - especially if you're running XP.

I cant think of anything atm, which would cause a slow down for the P2 patch.

I assume you've not got the DirectX SDK installed? Last time I installed the full thing it killed LFS for some reason.

[dUmAsS]

Last time I installed the full thing it killed LFS for some reason.

most liekly had it in debug mode.

i sugest more ram. the celeron wont be helping matters either.

also, options -> misc -> minimum sleep. what value is that?

[zoolpool]

im going to install 256mb of memory tomorrow so ill have 512mb, ill see how that goes! the minimum sleep was at 1ms altough i increased it to 20ms but nothing really changed.

if my computer is the problem then i dont understand how it worked on the demo?

zoolpool

[zoolpool]

MORE INFO:
I have the graphics etc set-up like they are with the original download. my frames are around 11-33 on blackwood in the v8 with a clear track. if i enter the other ai drivers though it drops to 1-2 which makes it impossible to drive.

in multiplayer it is usually around 10-18 unless lots of people are in the same place, such as banger racing, where it drops again to 1 or 2

zoolpool

[tonyyeb]

Im sure the extra memory will help ;)

[dUmAsS]

MORE INFO:
I have the graphics etc set-up like they are with the original download. my frames are around 11-33 on blackwood in the v8 with a clear track. if i enter the other ai drivers though it drops to 1-2 which makes it impossible to drive.

in multiplayer it is usually around 10-18 unless lots of people are in the same place, such as banger racing, where it drops again to 1 or 2

zoolpool


turn down maximum texture size and turn on use half textures.

just tweak the settings in the graphics menu

[kel64]

im going to install 256mb of memory tomorrow so ill have 512mb, ill see how that goes! the minimum sleep was at 1ms altough i increased it to 20ms but nothing really changed.

if my computer is the problem then i dont understand how it worked on the demo?

zoolpool

Turn it back down to 1ms. Increasing this more than this will only harm fps.

[ellis_dee]

theres lots of settings that affect FPS, e.g. screen resolution, level of details, dynamic detail reduction (set it to 1) and so on. In singleplayer, turning off mirrors can give you up to 10 moer frames per sec, but please dont do it in multiplayer :-). The lfs Handbook for s1 can give you a good overview on what the options do. Yes and dont forget to set the minimum sleep back to 1 ms.

Maybe you want to try some mild overclocking on your machine...turn AF and AA down, if you have a graphics card with hardware shading...

[gizmo2k5]

AFAIK, RAM doesn't change in game fps, it affects loading times, it may help and give you an extre 3-5fps but thats it. Make sure all your drivers are up-to-date by going on your cards manufacturers site and getting them.

[the_angry_angel]

AFAIK, RAM doesn't change in game fps, it affects loading times, it may help and give you an extre 3-5fps but thats it. Make sure all your drivers are up-to-date by going on your cards manufacturers site and getting them.
It will affect FPS if it needs to page to the hard drive every 10 seconds.

most liekly had it in debug mode.Unfortunately not, which is why it baffled me :(

[tonyyeb]

I agree. The PC is probably hammering the virtual memory as it runs out of RAM. New memory today so lets hope it has SOME effect!!

[BWX232]

Need a new PC to run LFS S2 with any kind of speed.. you can get it playable, but man it wouldn't look very good.



Radeon 9000

256mb memory

2.00 ghz Intel Celeron


Turn everything down in gfx card drivers and in game and run at 640 x 480..
Show no more than 3 to 4 cars on screen..

To be playing any games you should really upgrade your PC though. If not the entire PC, upgrade the CPU, GPU, and ram to the highest that mobo will allow.

[zoolpool]

I reduced the graphics and things today and it improved the fps, so now its bearable, but the memory didnt arrive so ill get it tomorrow hopefully!

i still dont understand how the demo worked though!

zoolpool

[Yellow]

but if you have the money i would suggest getting a better video card :)

[dUmAsS]

but if you have the money i would suggest getting a better video card :)

the card can cope with lfs just about fine. i would replace the cpu as priority

[WGooden]

Wow, maybe I'm lucky or something but my computer is way slower and runs lfs better.. Im on an amd 1ghz with just 128mb ram and geforce mx/400.

With all the graphics off at 1024X768 in hotlapping i get like 40-60 fps and online about 30 with a few cars, but at starts with a full field it drops to about 10 or less until the field sorts out. I am gettin a new pc soon though.. I'm sure the game will be 100times better with decent graphics. :)

[Mounthy]

try the LFS Benchmark
http://lfsbench.iron.eu.org/?c=instructions
post the result from both (min & max cfg.txt) test here.
and also the content of your card_cfg.txt. located in the lfs main folder.

depending of the result we can see where the probs come from,
LFS or windows/your system. :nod:

edit:
maybe run the test in a fresh install,
just unzip LFS in a new folder. no unlocking for the test needed.

[RJC_pt]

Celeron's deal very badly with games with intensive physics engine, they have very litle amout of l2 cache(128kb in your model) so there is nothing you can do really..

I have a 2k celeron myself, but it is my server, no way runing games on it...

WGooden amd's are way more eficiente that celerons, in games you cpu is no douthl best..

[-SE1Z-]

Agreed
CPU is a must for LFS (most games really)...

Grab the fastest P4 you can afford and wack that in.
You will be amazed! :smileypul

[zoolpool]

I got the new memory today but my motherboard is so tempremental that it wouldnt accept it:( The fps is still low so im saving all i can from now on!

If anybody has any other ideas please post them!

zoolpool

[RJC_pt]

You can allaways try to overcloock it, celeron don't heat up that mutch, you can reach 2.6ghz in the stock cooler with no problems

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20021016/index.html as you would se here it will still leave you beind an atlhon xp 1600+ but try it out

[Cue-Ball]

Try the LFS benchmark like Mounthy suggested. I would suggest doing the min/max benchmark for your current install, then download and install the demo to a different directory and do the same tests there. If the two are different, it's not your computer, it's your settings. If your frame rate is acceptable using the "min" settings, you could slowly turn things back on until it gets slow again. I don't think your machine is the problem. It's not the fastest thing on the planet, but I was able to run multiplayer LFS on a machine half as fast with a lesser video card. You just need to find out what settings are acceptable on your particular machine.

Turn off trees, driver, steering wheel. Make sure you're not running anti-aliasing. Run 16-bit and simple wheels. Turn down the mirror settings as much as you can without disabling the mirror all together. Just these few things can give you an easy 15fps boost.

[BWX232]

I got the new memory today but my motherboard is so tempremental that it wouldnt accept it:( The fps is still low so im saving all i can from now on!

If anybody has any other ideas please post them!

zoolpool
Just a hunch but many of those celeron boards only take low density memory. What model mobo is it? Can you list the number on it? And the brand name? Also list the memory you bought, and links to where you bought it. Maybe it is incompatible, and you can return it and get the right memory. It may not be the problem, but it may be.

Also maybe we can help you get the board to accept the memory if it is the correct kind.. I have a few things you can try, I have built at least 20 PC's over the past few years.. and ran into all kinds of things like that.

[Ferrari LFS]

Turn as many of your graphics settings down or to off, and also make sure you install the latest drivers for your graphics card, this can make a considerable difference... i would be suprised if you can't get an average frame rate of around 50 with your hardware...

[tonyyeb]

50??!! With that hardware!!!?? I get 50 and I have a P4 2.0ghz, 1gb RAM and most importantly a Radeon 9600XT 256mb!!! He has 256mb, a celeron 2ghz and a Radeon 9000 64mb!!!

I would expect about 30fps in one player and less per car on track in average detail mode.

[Shotglass]

try using the wheels only view ... you shpuld get a lot mor fps with that ...

[Woz]

50??!! With that hardware!!!?? I get 50 and I have a P4 2.0ghz, 1gb RAM and most importantly a Radeon 9600XT 256mb!!! He has 256mb, a celeron 2ghz and a Radeon 9000 64mb!!!

I would expect about 30fps in one player and less per car on track in average detail mode.

A 2GHz P4 is a VERY different beast to a Celeron.

[Ferrari LFS]

50??!! With that hardware!!!?? I get 50 and I have a P4 2.0ghz, 1gb RAM and most importantly a Radeon 9600XT 256mb!!! He has 256mb, a celeron 2ghz and a Radeon 9000 64mb!!!

I would expect about 30fps in one player and less per car on track in average detail mode.
Fair enough i hadn't realised that his gfx card was only 64Mb however i have a lower spec machine than you and i get an average frame rate of over 70 so you obviously don't know how to optimize a PC, stai zitto :nod: :banana:

[tonyyeb]

And how do you optimise a PC then please?

A 2GHz P4 is a VERY different beast to a Celeron.

I know... that was my point... read my post again... i was saying my PC which is much better gets 50 and so a PC with rubbish specs should run slower...

[zoolpool]

I managed (with a little help!) to install the memory, it turned out my motherboard needed a 2.5V memory, not 2.6 as i was trying to install! This marginally improved the frame rate but not enough to make any real difference. i will try to set the benchmark system tommorrow and see what the result is.

:(

zoolpool

[zoolpool]

I have just done the benchmark system for the min and max.

The min i have posted and my result was - min=14 , max=37 , average = 24

the max i could not post because it said the result had to be between 103000 and 104200 ms which it was!
Frames: 762 - Time: 103734ms - Avg: 7.345 - Min: 5 - Max: 12

How do i find out if my pc or my game is to fault?

zoolpool

EDIT: I am now using the settings from the min file and my game is running alot faster! although still not great!

[Mounthy]

if i compare it with the other results in the benchmark
your system should run much faster with LFS.
like the guy with the amd 1500+/gf5200 with a average of 62 frames
i would aspect your celeron 2000/ati 9000 close to this.
maybe a bit slower but not that much.

some settings are left they are not in the cfg.txt
these settings are in the card_cfg.txt
or in game -> options/grafics.
attached pic should show your settings,(not sure with the z-buffer)
the "hardware vertex shading" and "simple track" has a big performance influence.
play a little with it and look what happend. ;)

last is the sound, disable it with shift-n in game
or better in windows device manager or bios if its a onboard sound.

did you run the benchmark in a new LFS install?

if so and the above settings didn`t help, it`s to 99,9 % not LFS where the probs comes from.

so then your pc and/or windows left as the guilty parts
thats a bigger task to find the fault,
first look, make sure AA and AF is disabled.

if all doesn`t help we need some more infos about you pc,
maybe you can attach a system-report?

[zoolpool]

thanks for the settings, the frame has now improved although its still very low when other cars are close. a race with a full grid round blackwood is still about 2.0 but single player and multiplayer (when not racing in pack) is about 25-35. the only time my frame rate goes close to 60 is when i pause the game!

i used my install and not an original. i also did the sound but it didnt change anything.

zoolpool

[RJC_pt]

Your cpu will never run the game mutch faster than it runs now, not even with a better grafic card. If you can ty to get a P4, even a P4 1.6 is mutch faster than your cpu. As a said before l2 cache of only 128kb is to small, its the main problem that causes the lack of performance and it is the main diference to any P4.
I tryed my 2nd 9700pro on my celeron2.0 (512ddr266 mem) server and it has only 6700 3dmarks in 2001se, that is damm low, i can do that with a amd2000xp and a gf3ti200...
If you can go for a cpu otherwise turn everything off and it wont get better than that.
What i mean is that there is no anomaly in your low fps, the problem is your cpu and unless you change it the problem wont go away...

[zoolpool]

ill try to upgrade my pc when i can, although it wont be soon judging by the prices! i fiddled with the graphics again slightly and my frame rate is between 30-40 on multiplayer, so im happy enough, even with the poor graphics!

it even reaches 40-60 on single player!

Thanks for all the help, and if anyone has any more suggestions please post them.

zoolpool

[ORION]

My teammate Devil 007 has got very good bench results with his radeon 8500, even higherthen me with 6800GT :)
The CPU is so damn important in LFS.

About your problem: You said that the ols demo (0.5K or L I guess) was running much better? This is really weird as you have already used the low-config, which should use really the best performing settings.
Could you check your gfx card control panel, plz?
(rightclick on your desktop and select Properties->Settings-Advanced or something similar regarding to your language setting)
Make sure that and kind of AntiAliasing or Anisotropic filtering are disabled.
You can also make some screens and atth them here.

Some performace comparison:
My notebook (centrino 1.5) with reduced clock to 600MHz runs still at 30 fps or more with one car in cockpit view, but all settings are at max (!). This is really weird because a Celeron is not THAT slow, is it?

Maybe you shoud download some serious CPU benchmark program like SuperPI
http://superpi.radeonx.com/super_pi_mod-1.4.zip
and run for example the 1M calculation in order to check if the system itself works as it should. My notebook at 600MHz gets around 2:30 mins, which is really totally slow, at 1500 it takes 51 seconds.

I dont think a Celeron with 2GHz should take longer than 2 minutes.

[RJC_pt]

Try buying a used P4, should be really sheap, and a 1.8 would do...