Round 7 Objections [Archive]

BenjiMC

23rd September 2007, 00:11

Please post any objections to on-track conduct or administrative rulings here in the following format;

Car Numbers:
Lap/Time:
Description of incident or video link:

Full replay (http://www.pes.pri.ee/mitch/IgtcR7.mpr)

Thanks mitch :)

Dmt

23rd September 2007, 00:18

Full replay from me :tilt:

http://www.pes.pri.ee/mitch/IgtcR7.mpr

Gil07

23rd September 2007, 13:56

BenjiMC

23rd September 2007, 14:14

There is no incident on lap 291...

Gil07

23rd September 2007, 15:22

I'm sure i checked it right. Lap 291 for 09 [SR] R. Hero.

BenjiMC

23rd September 2007, 15:23

I will re-check later tonight. :thumbsup:

srdsprinter

23rd September 2007, 15:24

lol... i dunno if this is it, but on 280 SR 9 bumps off a car on its inside and slides into the 19 car on the outside...

Gil07

23rd September 2007, 15:26

No, that isn't it :) I'll check again too, Benji, thanks.

Gil07

23rd September 2007, 15:57

Checked, and yes, it's on lap 291. About the 2 other incidents between car #09 and car #19, I'd class them as racing incidents. :)

Lotesdelere

23rd September 2007, 16:09

bdshan

23rd September 2007, 17:12

Checked, and yes, it's on lap 291. About the 2 other incidents between car #09 and car #19, I'd class them as racing incidents. :)

You would see it that way, seeing as it favors you.

The Lap 273/274 incident I would say Race Hero did not display situational awareness. I saw trouble ahead and LFS displayed a yellow flag. I took caution and he hits me in the rear. I don't think that is a racing incident.

The Lap 280 incident was caused my him going low down into passing [CD] car, which sent him back up into me.

The lap 291 incident was caused by me going low down into him, I'll admit that. I thought I had room. But if you think the other two incidents were racing incidents, well so was this.

Watch Race Hero's whole last driving shift he was spinning and hitting things fairly often, under green and yellow flags conditions.

srdsprinter

23rd September 2007, 17:26

Objection against car #1
Car numbers: #1 (|||Stu) and #25 ([CD] Droemel)
End of lap 301-Beginning of lap 302

In lap 300, car #25 is clearly over one full lap ahead car #1.
But while under full course yellow, car #1 overtakes the leaders and rejoins the back of the pack, thus making #25 losing the full lap advantage he had over car #1.
Marshall BenjiMC even noticed it:
Message from [IGTC]BenjiMC: 1 |||Stu - do not overtake under SC
But no action was taken ??!!

We believe this action made us losing the 4th position in unfair conditions and against the rules.

Yes, I fully expected a Drive-Thru pentalty. I never received one, so I couldn't serve it.

LOTF #1 fully acknowledges Car #25 of ConeDodgers SHOULD finish in 4th place, and that #1 should recieve a LL pentalty. We also would like to apologize to Car #25, as 4th was your correct finishing position.

We wanted to get ourselves out of the battle for the lead, and we thought a DT pentalty would seperate us from the pack to ensure we could finish cleanly.

Gil07

23rd September 2007, 17:31

You would see it that way, seeing as it favors you.

The Lap 273/274 incident I would say Race Hero did not display situational awareness. I saw trouble ahead and LFS displayed a yellow flag. I took caution and he hits me in the rear. I don't think that is a racing incident.

The Lap 280 incident was caused my him going low down into passing [CD] car, which sent him back up into me.

The lap 291 incident was caused by me going low down into him, I'll admit that. I thought I had room. But if you think the other two incidents were racing incidents, well so was this.

Watch Race Hero's whole last driving shift he was spinning and hitting things fairly often, under green and yellow flags conditions.

I acknowledge you may see things this way. By all means file an objection, what we want is that justice is done. If that is then spite of us so be it.

bdshan

23rd September 2007, 17:40

bdshan

23rd September 2007, 17:42

Gil07

23rd September 2007, 17:45

Thanks. Let's get this over and done with, and concentrate on the next race!

racer hero

23rd September 2007, 18:35

ndshan. The [CD] car came up so fast I didn't know he was there. That would make it a racing incident. BTW yellow flag doesn't mean slam your brakes on, it means slow down and be aware a car has crashed ahead of you.

srdsprinter

23rd September 2007, 18:44

Sorry DWB.

@ SR - We obviously see things a little differently. Here's to a good race @ Aston :thumb:

DeadWolfBones

23rd September 2007, 18:54

Guys, while we allow a certain amount of debate in these threads, they are mainly for the posting of the objections themselves. Please don't get into a bickering war in here.

The marshals will decide the penalties and that will be that.

Thanks!

Lotesdelere

23rd September 2007, 23:17

Yes, I fully expected a Drive-Thru pentalty. I never received one, so I couldn't serve it.

LOTF #1 fully acknowledges Car #25 of ConeDodgers SHOULD finish in 4th place, and that #1 should recieve a LL pentalty. We also would like to apologize to Car #25, as 4th was your correct finishing position.

We wanted to get ourselves out of the battle for the lead, and we thought a DT pentalty would seperate us from the pack to ensure we could finish cleanly.
Thanks and congratulations for your honesty and your fair play :thumb:

Dmt

24th September 2007, 04:31

Is it hard to make A VIDEO CLIP ?

BenjiMC

24th September 2007, 20:06

Car Numbers: #9 and #19
Lap/Time: #9's Lap 280
Description of incident or video link:
The #9 comes up and hits me, #19, causing me to spin and hit the wall. The reason he came up into me was cause he went down low collided with a passing [CD] car and was sent upwards.

This was a racing incident. #09 Naturally reacted to #25 coming under pretty quickly by turning away. #19 did not spin in this case... #9 was the worst off.

BenjiMC

24th September 2007, 20:09

BenjiMC

24th September 2007, 20:27

Car Numbers: #9 and #19
Lap/Time: #9's Lap 273 or 274
Description of incident or video link:
The #9 rear ends me #19 approaching the start finish line. LFS had displayed a yellow flag because 2 cars just ahead had collided. I took caution seeing the incident and was tagged in the back by #9 causing us both to spin.

The #6 car hits you. At this point the #6 is being shown blue flag not yellow flag and was attempting an overlap but lost control and went into your car is you came down the banking. This was a racing incident. The #9 in fact lifted and attempted to go around the outside but got caught up in the crash by no fault of his own. However #9 will receive a LL penalty for not engaging his pit limiter when prompted by the marshals despite being on the tail of the leading 2 cars.

nmanley

25th September 2007, 00:45

I never did file an official protest as I feel it is just a racing incident but it too involved a SR car.
There were three of us maintaining pace together for several laps and I was the ham in the middle. I lifted several times to break the sandwich as it got tight several times, but one or the other would make a mistake and came back to me so I just held the middle line. The outside car "Unity" I believe, was maintaining his line smoothly but the same could not be said for the SR car. What I feared most finally happened when he punted me into the outside wall of turn 3. This brought on my DT penalty for going into the pits from my racing accident location to get my car repaired. HENCE the hopefully future ADOPTION of the crossing yellow Pit line rule change due to an accident.

My point is that some SR team drivers were very erratic driving this event. That may have been a direct result of bad car settings or practice in traffic as the 06 seemed more erratic than the 09 car. This is just an observation and not a gripe directly at an individual SR driver. :uglyhamme

I alway wonder why there is so much crying in NASCAR racing and now I really know. As EASY as this track is to drive we seemed to have had the most problems with officiating and other drivers. I think this series needs to leave the NASCAR type racing to another division of the Sim world. :shrug:

The yellow line rule should have been looked at before this event started since the yellow line and pits encompasses 1/3 of the total track distance. This one item cause 95% of the race problems for the officiating. :really:
What should have been a very enjoyable drive for all was ruined by these penalties alone.

DeadWolfBones

25th September 2007, 04:22

The yellow line rule should have been looked at before this event started since the yellow line and pits encompasses 1/3 of the total track distance. This one item cause 95% of the race problems for the officiating. :really:
What should have been a very enjoyable drive for all was ruined by these penalties alone.

The yellow line rule is there for one reason only, and that rule is to keep drivers entering or exiting the pits from a) losing control and getting hit by cars on the racing line or b) joining the racing line at an inopportune time (i.e., the middle of the banked corner) and getting in the way of a car coming around at full speed.

The only problem with the rule, frankly, is with drivers not obeying it.

Franke

25th September 2007, 09:43

This is a complaint about the race officials and the Safety Car drivers. Plus futher down, a note on experience in marshalling oval races.

I an tired of loosing out on EVERY single Start and or Restart behind the Safety Car... The rules CLEARLY STATES:

1) Races are started behind a safety car (hereafter SC), driven at pit limiter speed, in single file. All drivers must leave a gap of at least two (2) car-lengths to the car ahead during the parade lap.

In last 3 races this has not been the case... I WANT THIS TO BE CLEARED UP, either the rules change so that the last 1/4 of the lap is on Speedlimiter, or whole last lap, during the start of the last race we, and Unity got overtaken by 3 cars, unacceptable, because i was trying to drive on the limiter, but watching the replay the safety car is going i guess almost as fast as possible... I was trying to go by the rules and lost 3 places on the start...

Behind the first SC of the race, this was once again the case, not beeing overtaken, but we lost about 5-600 meter, because we once again were on PL as the rules CLEARLY states

2.6) Once the leader has entered the final sector prior to a restart, all drivers must close the gap to the car ahead to a distance of two (2) car-lengths and engage the pit limiter. Please give room and do not ride the bumper of the car ahead--excessive crowding may result in a DT. When the green flag is flown, the SC period and full-course yellow are ended and drivers may disengage the pit limiter and resume racing.

I am not looking for anything to be done for the oval race, i just want this to be taken care of before the last race, i drove half of the last sector on PL, still i was like 5-600 meters behind the car in front of me, and i did not disengage, cos i did not want a DT penalty. I'd rather loose 5-600 meters than loosing 2 laps on DT... Sorry to the once that thought i was a jerk on the track, but only trying to stick to the rules....

And on a different note, STOP WHINING ABOUT YOU PENALTIES, read the rules, Alias Racing Team had used like 1 hour to practise getting pitstops perfect, and we did...

ALIAS RACING TEAM recieved 0 (ZERO) penalties during the race, not even the penalty for the qualifying, where 8 were penalized... Have to say i was having fun every time a pitline crossing penalty was handed out, shows we did the correct preparation for the race...

Other than that, i think IGTC is very professional, and the rules are quite clear, and though it seems a bit boring, the Oval race was quite fun, to take it out of next years calendar would in my opinion be sad. Really a good strategy race, the only race in the calendar that is not all up to the driver, but also to strategy.

On a different note, driving ovals can be tricky, and dangorous, hence in real life marshalls look for damage on cars driving around the track, cos driver cannot allways know how the car looks on the out side, and here is a little tip to the marshals, damage is not dangorous in LFS, but a tire puncture is, and here is my point, either the marshals have to check tire condition, regularly driving on ovals, cos we had a puncture on left front tire on lap 111, but our driver couldn't feel a thing, and laptimes were as they should be... This finally resulted in a crash on lap 126, when the right front tire expired, taking out the Unity Racing entry, as we were on the inside of them when it happened... The driver didn't check the tires as our 3 one hour tests before the race, had told us that tires were not an issue, as they lasted 1 hour 20 to 30 minutes, but by my fault the tires were not changed, this i cannot blame anyone but myself, but IRL the flat left would have been caught by the marshalls... Hope you see this is not a complaint, but a heads up to marshalls in the event they have to marshall another oval race...

My final point here is, either the officials have to check tires on oval race, or each team should be allowed 1 spectator, to take care of our own cars...

Kind regards, and looking forward to round 8
Alias Racing Team
Frank Sonne

nmanley

25th September 2007, 09:58

The yellow line rule is there for one reason only, and that rule is to keep drivers entering or exiting the pits from a) losing control and getting hit by cars on the racing line or b) joining the racing line at an inopportune time (i.e., the middle of the banked corner) and getting in the way of a car coming around at full speed.

The only problem with the rule, frankly, is with drivers not obeying it.

Agreed but... I'm ONLY talking about the crossing of it in case of damage attained to ones car PAST the ENTRY to the pit.

I practised the pit in and out enough to NOT make the mistake the entire time I drove to a NORMAL pit stop. I even had to do two pit entries to change drivers after a mix up on my part.

I understand Franke's issue with the Saftey Car periods but until every driver understands the procedure it will continue to be F'ed up. We saw way too many, this late in a series, that seem to not have a clue on how the saftey car works. "You can lead them to water but getting them to take a drink is another story". ;)

Franke

25th September 2007, 10:57

BenjiMC

25th September 2007, 12:00

This is a complaint about the race officials and the Safety Car drivers. Plus futher down, a note on experience in marshalling oval races.

I an tired of loosing out on EVERY single Start and or Restart behind the Safety Car... The rules CLEARLY STATES:

1) Races are started behind a safety car (hereafter SC), driven at pit limiter speed, in single file. All drivers must leave a gap of at least two (2) car-lengths to the car ahead during the parade lap.

1.1) During the parade lap, all drivers must drive respectfully and with control. Pit limiters are not required until the final sector of the parade lap, at which time race control will instruct drivers to stabilize the two car-length gap to the car ahead and engage their limiters. Any driver caught driving with pit limiter disengaged after this point will be subject to a DT.

In last 3 races this has not been the case... I WANT THIS TO BE CLEARED UP, either the rules change so that the last 1/4 of the lap is on Speedlimiter, or whole last lap, during the start of the last race we, and Unity got overtaken by 3 cars, unacceptable, because i was trying to drive on the limiter, but watching the replay the safety car is going i guess almost as fast as possible... I was trying to go by the rules and lost 3 places on the start...

Read the rules throughout and thoroughly and this will not happen. However the rules do state a marshal will tell you to bunch up closer.

Behind the first SC of the race, this was once again the case, not beeing overtaken, but we lost about 5-600 meter, because we once again were on PL as the rules CLEARLY states.

2.6) Once the leader has entered the final sector prior to a restart, all drivers must close the gap to the car ahead to a distance of two (2) car-lengths and engage the pit limiter. Please give room and do not ride the bumper of the car ahead--excessive crowding may result in a DT. When the green flag is flown, the SC period and full-course yellow are ended and drivers may disengage the pit limiter and resume racing.

I am not looking for anything to be done for the oval race, i just want this to be taken care of before the last race, i drove half of the last sector on PL, still i was like 5-600 meters behind the car in front of me, and i did not disengage, cos i did not want a DT penalty. I'd rather loose 5-600 meters than loosing 2 laps on DT... Sorry to the once that thought i was a jerk on the track, but only trying to stick to the rules....

1.2) In the event that the field is unevenly spaced as it approaches the green flag, the marshals may instruct drivers to close up to or back off from the car ahead. Once pit limiters are engaged, drivers should not release them unless otherwise instructed.

And on a different note, STOP WHINING ABOUT YOU PENALTIES, read the rules, Alias Racing Team had used like 1 hour to practise getting pitstops perfect, and we did...

ALIAS RACING TEAM recieved 0 (ZERO) penalties during the race, not even the penalty for the qualifying, where 8 were penalized... Have to say i was having fun every time a pitline crossing penalty was handed out, shows we did the correct preparation for the race...

Other than that, i think IGTC is very professional, and the rules are quite clear, and though it seems a bit boring, the Oval race was quite fun, to take it out of next years calendar would in my opinion be sad. Really a good strategy race, the only race in the calendar that is not all up to the driver, but also to strategy.

On a different note, driving ovals can be tricky, and dangorous, hence in real life marshalls look for damage on cars driving around the track, cos driver cannot allways know how the car looks on the out side, and here is a little tip to the marshals, damage is not dangorous in LFS, but a tire puncture is, and here is my point, either the marshals have to check tire condition, regularly driving on ovals, cos we had a puncture on left front tire on lap 111, but our driver couldn't feel a thing, and laptimes were as they should be... This finally resulted in a crash on lap 126, when the right front tire expired, taking out the Unity Racing entry, as we were on the inside of them when it happened... The driver didn't check the tires as our 3 one hour tests before the race, had told us that tires were not an issue, as they lasted 1 hour 20 to 30 minutes, but by my fault the tires were not changed, this i cannot blame anyone but myself, but IRL the flat left would have been caught by the marshalls... Hope you see this is not a complaint, but a heads up to marshalls in the event they have to marshall another oval race...

We do check and did check damage at regular intervals. the problem is with R4 tyres which most teams used the tyre was black after 20-30 minutes so we were not able to see if tyres were punctured or not. However it is not completely our responsibility to check tyres since it is a teams job to know the life of their tyres in testing sessions.

My final point here is, either the officials have to check tires on oval race, or each team should be allowed 1 spectator, to take care of our own cars...

Kind regards, and looking forward to round 8
Alias Racing Team
Frank Sonne

I have replied in red text.

DeadWolfBones

25th September 2007, 16:06

Agreed but... I'm ONLY talking about the crossing of it in case of damage attained to ones car PAST the ENTRY to the pit.

I practised the pit in and out enough to NOT make the mistake the entire time I drove to a NORMAL pit stop. I even had to do two pit entries to change drivers after a mix up on my part.

Well, as mentioned earlier we will look into amending the rule for heavily damaged cars. I don't think, however, that your one case of not being able to enter pit lane properly b/c of damage accounts for "95%" of the problems in the officiating. ;]

nmanley

26th September 2007, 00:21

At nmanley:

The problem is, sorry to say, not mainly the drivers fault, its the Safety Car drivers fault, HE should turn on Pit Limier at the last split and let the field catch up, if not correctly in line, HE should do ANOTHER LAP...

It has been the practice of the SC to have the field set their pit limiters and then advance to get back in the pits. It is the fields responsibility to keep their limiters on and maintain their speed AT the pit limiter. Many times someone in the field has slowed too much causing spacing in the field.
This pisses off the guys behind them.

DWB.... Read just the part of my post about the 95% and you'll see I'm saying that 95% of the calls were about the yellow pit lines. BTW .. the main reason the pit line rule came about was because of people crossing it coming OUT of the pit into the racing line.

The LFS sim does not penalize anyone for crossing the lines in a race or during a pit. Might be a good suggestion for the Dev's for the next upgrade. ;)

KSheppard

26th September 2007, 02:37

The LFS sim does not penalize anyone for crossing the lines in a race or during a pit. Might be a good suggestion for the Dev's for the next upgrade.

:thumb:
I'd also like to see numbered pits...where ya qualify (or get placed if no qualify) is your pit number.

Franke

27th September 2007, 00:22

I have replied in red text.

Fair enough, now look at the replay and tell me that the rules are followed... I THINK NOT, listen to what i have to say...

Firstly, i hate having to do this, but the way you answered me to my previous post, just got me frustrated, i feel my answer was worthy of more than just a, well, can't even find the word for it. I hate myself for persuing this... But i feel the rules are not being obayed on all ends, and all i wan't, is that the stupid Safety Car HAS TO OBAY THE RULES, as we do too.

Incident #1 (Starting behind safety car):

Lap no. 1: At the split (THERE IS ONLY ONE ON OVAL) what speed should the SC be going at PASSING split 1??? Yes, definately NOT KM 143, as was the case... What does #02 do, hit the PL, as told by the rules, but i am probably the only one. Comming up behind #11, i don't know what his starting pos is, so i stay behind, I DON'T WANT PENALTIES, he crashes, Rule on SC crash, is that its ok to SAFELY PASS, i lift off the gas, till i can see it's safe to pass. Crossing the Start/Finish line, and then what, i get passed by 3, yes THREE cars, expecting them to be told to fall back, BUT NOTHING HAPPENS (#01, #06 and #09, not looking for them to get LL now)... Well on with it, i catch up, still not wanting to get a DT i stay behind the 3 that just passed me, STILL expecting to be told to repass, BUT NOTHING. The SC is approacing the spilt, and what speed sould he be doing now???? Correct 78 kmh, but he is cruising nicely at 113, at this point i am catching up, and i do what? YES, I ENGANGE MY PL once again, as the rules clearly states i should be doing, Well approaching the start, i am still wondering when i will be told to repass, expecting another formation lap, and then the race goes GREEN, was i expecting that, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE, so before i know it, i am DEAD LAST... So please Benji, did I, or did I not follow the rules. Your reply kinda p'ed me off, cos you made it look like this was my fault, or lack of knowledge of the rules, which i think the replay clearly shows, it is not, i am probably one of the few that actually followed them. The Safety Car didn't, VERY wrong speed passing split. (Sorry to the once that was also following them, i didn't watch from all cars)...

Incident #2 (SC period starting on lap 9, ending on lap 14):

I catch up to the field, now being in 4th, having passed all the once getting DT's from Qualifying... i slow down as i can see the field getting closer, and keep a nice distance, and then what, i get rear-ended, nothing serious for me, but still i get hit, i don't know if he got a penalty for that, but, that is not safe driving in my book, this was #09. (Not looking for him to get LL now). Being behind SC, i keep up all the time this time around, as i don't wan't to get caught out on following the rules again... Passing the line on lap 10 going to lap 11, i brake slightly, so i will not hit the guy in front, 3 cars have an incident behind me, directly linked to my braking, two more are close, but doesn't look like they hit each other... But the rules say, maintain 2 carlengths of space between cars... Well the restart of the race happens at end of lap 14. When the Safety Car ENTERS split, it is doing kmh 138, that is way too high, again max. 80, according to the rules... This time around i am holding my breath trying to keep up, and be ready to brake, still doing over 130, where we should have been on PL. Finally entering the last corner i hit the PL, 22 seconds AFTER entering Split, not daring any more, again not wanting DT. At this point i am already far behind lead group, waiting to be told to catch up, but it never happens... People start HONKING their horns, but i am not in power to anything, but to obay the rules, as you so finely pointed out. Missing the green on replay, but i get a good start, and thats the end. Safety Car did not AGAIN obay the rules, it so finely should be enforcing.
After that, i might have disobayed a few things, but i never recieved ANY kind of penalty, so i must have done something right, but one thing is for sure, I OBAYED BLUE FLAGS to a point, that should be shown as an exampel, of how it should be done. Our team was one of the VERY few that din't recieve a penalty after qualifying, as we were also practising pit exit...

By this complaint, i hope to achieve that the Safety Car enforces the rules that are so finely handed out at you web site...

This is not a lash at anybody, and i hope this is understood. I am the Team Owner of Alias Racing Team, and I praise myself on being a clean and fair racer, and i HATE incidents, and my worst fear is still taking out the race-leader of a race, i have tried it, but in that case it was proven to be LAG that caused that incident. It is not the intention to hurt or sell anyone out.

To end in hopefully the funny side of this ! What would happen if the Safety Cars in real life events didn't follow the simplest rules, you would instantly see a complaint from EVERY team manger on that particular grid. So now you get one, and i hope other team managers, will back me up on this. If we have to follow rules handed out to us, we surely expect them to be enforced, not only the penalties, but the little things as well.

Kind regards
Alias Racing Team
Frank Sonne

Gil07

27th September 2007, 12:43

BenjiMC

27th September 2007, 14:50

Fair enough, now look at the replay and tell me that the rules are followed... I THINK NOT, listen to what i have to say...

Firstly, i hate having to do this, but the way you answered me to my previous post, just got me frustrated, i feel my answer was worthy of more than just a, well, can't even find the word for it. I hate myself for persuing this... But i feel the rules are not being obayed on all ends, and all i wan't, is that the stupid Safety Car HAS TO OBAY THE RULES, as we do too.

The SC does obey the rules.

Incident #1 (Starting behind safety car):

Lap no. 1: At the split (THERE IS ONLY ONE ON OVAL) what speed should the SC be going at PASSING split 1??? Yes, definately NOT KM 143, as was the case... What does #02 do, hit the PL, as told by the rules, but i am probably the only one.

Yes you are because that is no longer the SC rule!

Comming up behind #11, i don't know what his starting pos is, so i stay behind, I DON'T WANT PENALTIES, he crashes, Rule on SC crash, is that its ok to SAFELY PASS, i lift off the gas, till i can see it's safe to pass. Crossing the Start/Finish line, and then what, i get passed by 3, yes THREE cars, expecting them to be told to fall back, BUT NOTHING HAPPENS (#01, #06 and #09, not looking for them to get LL now)... Well on with it, i catch up, still not wanting to get a DT i stay behind the 3 that just passed me, STILL expecting to be told to repass, BUT NOTHING. The SC is approacing the spilt, and what speed sould he be doing now???? Correct 78 kmh, but he is cruising nicely at 113, at this point i am catching up, and i do what? YES, I ENGANGE MY PL once again, as the rules clearly states i should be doing, Well approaching the start, i am still wondering when i will be told to repass, expecting another formation lap, and then the race goes GREEN, was i expecting that, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE, so before i know it, i am DEAD LAST... So please Benji, did I, or did I not follow the rules. Your reply kinda p'ed me off, cos you made it look like this was my fault, or lack of knowledge of the rules, which i think the replay clearly shows, it is not, i am probably one of the few that actually followed them. The Safety Car didn't, VERY wrong speed passing split. (Sorry to the once that was also following them, i didn't watch from all cars)...

The rules are that the speed of the SC the same the whole lap. i.e. the SC NEVER slows down. Secondly i give an admin message telling drivers to put on their pit limiters, this is not shown in the replays for some weird reason however. READ THE RULES. As for your loss of position, if a car spins on the parade lap you may carry on but allow them to retake their positions after they sort themselves out. I was driving the PC at this time and me being the only person with a copy of the qually results not much could be done.

Incident #2 (SC period starting on lap 9, ending on lap 14):

I catch up to the field, now being in 4th, having passed all the once getting DT's from Qualifying... i slow down as i can see the field getting closer, and keep a nice distance, and then what, i get rear-ended, nothing serious for me, but still i get hit, i don't know if he got a penalty for that, but, that is not safe driving in my book, this was #09. (Not looking for him to get LL now). Being behind SC, i keep up all the time this time around, as i don't wan't to get caught out on following the rules again...... Passing the line on lap 10 going to lap 11, i brake slightly, so i will not hit the guy in front, 3 cars have an incident behind me, directly linked to my braking, two more are close, but doesn't look like they hit each other... But the rules say, maintain 2 car lengths of space between cars... Well the restart of the race happens at end of lap 14. When the Safety Car ENTERS split, it is doing kph 138, that is way too high, again max. 80, according to the rules...... This time around i am holding my breath trying to keep up, and be ready to brake, still doing over 130, where we should have been on PL. Finally entering the last corner i hit the PL, 22 seconds AFTER entering Split, not daring any more, again not wanting DT. At this point i am already far behind lead group, waiting to be told to catch up, but it never happens... People start HONKING their horns, but i am not in power to anything, but to obay the rules, as you so finely pointed out.

I agree with this decision.

Missing the green on replay, but i get a good start, and thats the end. Safety Car did not AGAIN obay the rules, it so finely should be enforcing.
After that, i might have disobayed a few things, but i never recieved ANY kind of penalty, so i must have done something right, but one thing is for sure, I OBAYED BLUE FLAGS to a point, that should be shown as an exampel, of how it should be done. Our team was one of the VERY few that din't recieve a penalty after qualifying, as we were also practising pit exit...

By this complaint, i hope to achieve that the Safety Car enforces the rules that are so finely handed out at you web site...

This is not a lash at anybody, and i hope this is understood. I am the Team Owner of Alias Racing Team, and I praise myself on being a clean and fair racer, and i HATE incidents, and my worst fear is still taking out the race-leader of a race, i have tried it, but in that case it was proven to be LAG that caused that incident. It is not the intention to hurt or sell anyone out.

To end in hopefully the funny side of this ! What would happen if the Safety Cars in real life events didn't follow the simplest rules, you would instantly see a complaint from EVERY team manger on that particular grid. So now you get one, and i hope other team managers, will back me up on this. If we have to follow rules handed out to us, we surely expect them to be enforced, not only the penalties, but the little things as well.

Kind regards
Alias Racing Team
Frank Sonne

Below is the SC rule. I understand possible confusion but it does say that the race control will instruct drivers to activate pit limiters.

E, 1.1) During the parade lap, all drivers must drive respectfully and with control. Pit limiters are not required until the final sector of the parade lap, at which time race control will instruct drivers to stabilize the two car-length gap to the car ahead and engage their limiters. Any driver caught driving with pit limiter disengaged after this point will be subject to a DT.

As does this rule...

M, 2.1) Race control messages and the corresponding chat text are color-coded to help drivers recognize them in the heat of battle. Yellow flag and SC messages will be displayed in yellow, the order to fall in line and engage pit limiters will be displayed in red, and the green flag message will be displayed in green.

@Gil07: I missed this as i went over the objections sorry. I will re-look at it now.

Gil07

4th October 2007, 22:14

Sorry to bring this up again, but any news?

BenjiMC

4th October 2007, 22:17

Yeah, was going to deal with this next. It's going to need a second review. The reason for this is that from different angles it appears to be a racing incident or direct attempt at blocking a line. Sorry to take so long but it's an awkward situation to judge.

Gil07

4th October 2007, 22:26

No problem :thumb:

DeadWolfBones

5th October 2007, 16:37

Objection against car #19
Car Numbers: SR's #09 and LOTF's #19
Lap/Time: lap 291 (SR #09's count)
Description of incident or video link: LOTF bdshan came down the banking for no apparent reason, to the inside line, which was [SR] R. Hero's. This caused car #09 to spin out on the grass and the SC to be deployed.

Hi Gil,

I just had a chance to go back and review this (after the interminable FFWD wait :D).

I've come to the conclusion that it was a racing incident and therefore no penalties will be assessed. It is clear from the replay that when bdshan started to turn down to the natural apex of the corner, the 09 did not have any overlap. He did indeed make up this overlap pretty quickly, but at that sort of speed and that sort of corner it's not entirely surprising that bdshan didn't see him come into frame and didn't react in time. It's certainly no less of a racing incident than the previous altercations between the 09, 06, and LOTF cars.

I would like to re-warn bdshan about the way he re-enters the track after the spin, though. He almost did serious damage to the 09 there, which certainly would have incurred a penalty.

ALSO!

I'd like to ask the EER team to NOT lay on the horn for the entire race in subsequent rounds. That was excruciatingly annoying.

Thanks!

bdshan

5th October 2007, 17:17

Hi Gil,
I would like to re-warn bdshan about the way he re-enters the track after the spin, though. He almost did serious damage to the 09 there, which certainly would have incurred a penalty.

:thumb:

Gil07

6th October 2007, 16:20

Thanks DWB :thumb:

nmanley

7th October 2007, 00:50

ALSO!

I'd like to ask the EER team to NOT lay on the horn for the entire race in subsequent rounds. That was excruciatingly annoying.

Thanks!

That was funny as heck when I heard that during the replay. I hope they figure out how that was on. :shrug: :D