Live for Speed World Series Discussion

[Arrow.]

Discuss your idea and opinions in this thread, Thanks

LFS World series will consist of the best drivers from all over the globe racing for there Country in a variety of cars and track environments in order to find LFS's fastest Nation.

Start time: 10UTC & 20UTC rotated each round.

Calendar (Proposed, most likely to be Postponed to ensure best possible organisation.)
Round 1 March 1st - UF1 - AS cadet
Round 2 March 22nd - XRT - BL gp
Round 3 April 12th - XFR - SO town
Round 4 May 3rd - LX6 - Fern Bay Gold [updated]
Round 5 May 24th - FXR - Aston historic
Round 6 June 14th - FBM - Aston Club
Round 7 July 5th - FZR - KY gp long
Round 8 July 26th - FO8 - WE interntl

Teams and Drivers
LFS World Series will consist of 16 Nations, 2 drivers, 2 cars

Nations 16/16
Argentina
Australia
Brazil
Mexico
USA
Serbia
Czech Rep
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
Germany
Great Britian
Ireland
Netherlands
Poland
Russia

Race Server: Will be located in America (preferably) to help reduce lag.

Round Car/Track Combo: I was thinking of using 8 on the Main Hotlap Rank combos so teams can participate in the "[size=2]Main Hotlap Nations Rank" if they wish.

Method of Racing
16 Nations. 2 Drivers/cars per Nation, 1 Server.
20minute Qualifying
1 Hour Race


How it will work
Once Entries have been closed. The Nation will be given subsections each. There will be a thread, to sign up a member of your Nations team. a poll will be setup for "Nations Manager" the elected manager wil be totally responsible for the organisation for his/her Nations Team.

More Information too come.

[Thommm]

would be awesome since the nationscup stopped after one season

[joshdifabio]

How about seperating the western and eastern hemispheres for scheduling purposes, and then having a couple of final rounds at the end of the season comprising of the top half from each hemisphere?

Edit: Actually, there are only about 10 countries in the western hemisphere, so that wouldn't really work :p.

[indie]

It could only be you Arrow :D

It would be great to see the sequel from nations cup.

I would like to give 2 minor suggestions:

1 - I think the name for the competition is inappropriate, teams battle ok, but i think nations compete more then they battle.
You could always use the same title from the previous series, there is no rights on that i think, its your call anyway, this is just my opinion.

2 - Allow for as many subscriptions as possible, after that sort the system.
I ask for this because there could be more then 16 countries for sure, and considering that, leaving anyone out, would be completely wrong and against community spirit.
Projecting a championship involving countries is by far more different then your great BOTT. And i think you should look at it like the LFS Olympics :D
Where every country strong or weaker would be able to participate and gain from the experience.

That's it, good luck is this great project :thumbsup:

Cyaz

[Arrow.]

I think the best thing to do is automatically sign up the top 10 countries (Where did the chart go which used to be on lfsworld?)
with S2 then let the rest sign up.

There are a number of things need to be discussed.

- Start time: most importantly finding the perfect time for all around the world which isnt easy.

- Lag/Servers: I was thinking either have the servers hosted in America/Canada as it is central between Australia and Europe or either rotate server location each round. Europe, America, Australia.

- Round Car/Track Combo: I was thinking of using 8 on the Main Hotlap Rank combos so teams can particpate in the "Main Hotlap Nations Rank" if they wish.
Example
UF1 - AS cadet
XFR - SO town
XRT - BL gp
LX6 - FE black rev
FO8 - WE interntl
MRT - FE gold
FXR - historic
FZR - KY gp long

- Method of Racing: Similar to BOTT 20mins Qualifying, roughly 50lap race or sprint races.

[danowat]

Sounds like a nice idea, shame I am nowhere near good enough to represent England...........I am half Welsh though.........

[thisnameistaken]

I am half Welsh though...

Everybody's suddenly half Welsh when they don't make the England team. :p

[danowat]

but it's true I tells ya

[Arrow.]

hahaha

[Tweaker]

I wish Aussies or vice versa didn't have to be alienated with such an idea, it's a real shame... because say if Germany vs Australia was in the semi-finals (and I am sure it would be), you wouldn't want some laggy racing.

That is one of the reasons Nationscup never hit it's mark; also because of timezone issues, which impacts race days immensely.

I've actually always wanted to see an A1GP style league, where ALL 30+ countries race at once, with the FO8's only (and full skinpack), since it is a very balanced car, and good with racing. Though, if you wanted, I guess you could choose different cartypes for each race, so that drivers from each country could get a chance (because there may be one fast driver in open wheelers, and one fast in FWD).

Still, timezones and times for races are the biggest issue, and there is no real way around that, other than hoping your country can stay up REALLY late/early on a weekend. This cannot always be the case, even for a country's fastest driver(s), so some countries would have to make ends meet just by filling in the blanks for time issues. That's not the way it should be.

That said, yeah you could split up different hemispheres in the first half of the season, but then that doesn't leave a fair elimination when the two hemispheres meet. They'd need to be racing against each other from the day it starts, until they are out. So I think you should stick to only a few continents unfortuneately. :shrug:.

Europe being the most dominant, Aussies would surely need to be the ones driving late :x But then that just brings up yet another obvious issue....

[CELTIC100]

I believe if Arrow is to Follow A1GP format it will be under the British Flag :D

Why not use LFS Tracker upto 24 hrs before the race to choose the respective drivers from each country for each round with the second fastest driver from each country as the reserve.

Also you could have a rule that a driver can only race in one round to give other competitors a chance of taking part, otherwise it may just turn out to be a championship for hotlappers only.

The chosen driver would also have to submit a replay of their fastest lap so cheating would not be a problem.

Just a couple of ideas.

PS : I'm the only Welshman in the village :D

[Arrow.]

Thanks Tweak, Timezones are a really big issue with events like these, even with BOTT.

Anywhere i can find the most LFS users per country?

[danowat]

Here >

[Tweaker]

That's pretty much your full/active grid of countries right there ^

[Arrow.]

ok thanks Dan,

Germany
United Kingdom
United States of America
France
Australia
Finland
Canada
Spain
Netherlands
sweden

will be automatically entered

[jasonmatthews]

Ahhh, can we not have Wales, Scotland, Ireland, N. Ireland & England as seperate nations??

@ Celtic100, don't worry m8, your not the only Welshman in the Village ;)

[CELTIC100]

@ Celtic100, don't worry m8, your not the only Welshman in the Village


YES I AM !!!!!!!

The others are just Sheep :D :sheep:

[niall09]

If i cant make the irish team, i will try for the welsh ;)

[Arrow.]

Ahhh, can we not have Wales, Scotland, Ireland, N. Ireland & England as seperate nations??


Isnt that would United Kingdom is :confused:
If United Kingdom consists of Scotland, Ireland, N. Ireland & England.

What is Great Britain

[The General Lee]

Great Britain is also the United Kingdom and England :tilt:

I think Scotland, Wales, Ireland and England should be seperate teams as most Scots and Welsh are like "Bahhh the English" Excuse the pun Welshies :D

[Nobo]

Great Britain is also the United Kingdom and England :tilt:

I think Scotland, Wales, Ireland and England should be seperate teams as most Scots and Welsh are like "Bahhh the English" Excuse the pun Welshies :D

So bavaria should have their own team, too :tilt:
The biggest problem apart from timezone is: who decides who drives for each country? I would go with Celtic100
Best would be to have a tracker and the fastest x drivers of each country on the upcoming combo should be allowed to race for their country. They would need to confirm their entry before the round, if they dont do it the next on the list has their spot. You would need at least 2 confirmation dates though.
But then you have the problem that you only choose by fast laps and not race-pace:shrug:. So you will never find a perfect system. Is not as easy as with BOTT where a TEAM nominates the drivers.
If you would make a team manager for a country, who decides who the team manager, you would always have some sympathism and antipatism between certain teams and drivers, a random person doesnt know all fast drivers in his country and so on. If the team manager looses interest in the league the probability that the whole team(nation) wont participate in a certain round is higher, whereas there war e drivers from the country who would like to participate.

[Arrow.]

I was thinking of getting subsection here on lfs forum for each entered country from there they can organize whos racing, team leader ect. :shrug:

[sidi]

Going by experience of the last nations cup i think the UK should stay together and get the best team from the four nations.:)

[LFSn00b]

There is one minus side though = How does every driver from that country who is going to drive or not? In the server?




5000 Posts O_O

[sidi]

There is one minus side though = How does every driver from that country who is going to drive or not? In the server?

Not sure i get what you mean.:shrug:

Just noticed 16 nations 32 drivers :( going to be crap imo the last nations cup had a much better format and got alot more drivers involved.

[nesrulz]

GO GO GO Battle Of The Nations. :thumb:

btw, Arrow. ---> http://nationscup.7.forumer.com/index.php

[indie]

ok thanks Dan,

Germany
United Kingdom
United States of America
France
Australia
Finland
Canada
Spain
Netherlands
sweden

will be automatically entered
Hi

Sorry Arrow but there's no logic here ... doing it by percentage.
Maybe you could follow Nesrulz link to the old nc forum, although it isn't going to help unless you contact Nikimere, who was the nc admin.
Well my point is that if you're going to choose 10 countries, maybe you could go for the 10 finalists from the previous tournament?
For instance neither Belgium or Portugal is shown in your list, but both countries were in the final 10, and i might be forgetting some fellas.

What about the name? Should we start the fight for borders now? Is a rise of arms needed? Can't we just compete instead of battling? :D

Intéh

[chanoman315]

why no divisions for the races.. groups? like in the Football World Cup?... it would be more fair, and by that all the countries that want to participate would race

[The General Lee]

The groups things sounds good. Then the winners of the groups go into a show down type thing.

Also, we need more nations. 16 is a measly amount, it should be as big as BOTT.

[AstroBoy]

I've actually always wanted to see an A1GP style league, where ALL 30+ countries race at once, with the FO8's only (and full skinpack), since it is a very balanced car, and good with racing.obvious issue

Woo im with Tweak with the FO8 but other then all that, i would love to see this hit its mark.
But also the Nations drivers sorting them selves out before the race country colours ect how would that work? because in all seriousness you will have a couple of unknown drivers wanting to drive while with the more well known team drivers also wanting to drive and because team drivers might be more well known they may get a majority vote, but thats just what i think could happen.
Id be more then happy to represent Australia, and if all else fails theres always mini Australia, *cough* NZ :P just messing with u

[The General Lee]

Please Arrow, can we have the FOX at AS2.

I hate you for not putting it into BOTT.

I promise I will bug you untill you add it! :D

Damn, 2 pages.

[Arrow.]

why no divisions for the races.. groups? like in the Football World Cup?... it would be more fair, and by that all the countries that want to participate would race

Then it wont be no different to any other league in LFS a number of countries racing at once. The aim is to get as many as possible Countries racing online at the same time and find the Fastest country.


But also the Nations drivers sorting them selves out before the race country colours ect how would that work? because in all seriousness you will have a couple of unknown drivers wanting to drive while with the more well known team drivers also wanting to drive and because team drivers might be more well known they may get a majority vote, but thats just what i think could happen.
Id be more then happy to represent Australia, and if all else fails theres always mini Australia, *cough* NZ :P just messing with u

Sub forums would be created for each country. I would create a Sign up thread for each country. once sign ups are complete they vote on a team manager. then they will need to sort rest out for themselves i think.

Please Arrow, can we have the FOX at AS2.


There will definitly be a FOX just a matter of where :scratchch

[The General Lee]

I still promise to bug you untill its as Aston Club and dont try and fool me and do it reverse :razz:

[niall09]

I would love to ban that combo Niall, it should never be put in a league ever again... :p


I think you should split up Great Britain into England Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland. Maybe having N.Ireland teaming up woth Rep. Ireland?

Just an idea :)

[chanoman315]

Then it wont be no different to any other league in LFS a number of countries racing at once. The aim is to get as many as possible Countries racing online at the same time and find the Fastest country.


the fastest country passes to the finals...

[AstroBoy]

the fastest country passes to the finals...

I dont think there is a finals, this series is the finals, and its looking for the fastest country out of all of LFS. Atleast thats what it seems like to me, and i hope this gets support from many drivers from each country for some fast paced racing :)

[J@tko]

Isnt that would United Kingdom is :confused:
If United Kingdom consists of Scotland, Ireland, N. Ireland & England. What is Great Britain

British Isles - Eng, Sco, Wal, N Ire + Ire and all islands
UK - Eng, Sco, Wal, N Ire + all islands
GB - Eng, Sco, Wal, IOM, Scottish islands, Channel Islands

At olymipics - GB & N.Ireland - no idea why it isnt the UK? anyone know?

[minimax]

I think you should split up Great Britain into England Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland. Maybe having N.Ireland teaming up woth Rep. Ireland?
Just an idea :)

For the Nations Cup they were seperate, and it didn't work, just having UK would work much better

[The General Lee]

At olymipics - GB & N.Ireland - no idea why it isnt the UK? anyone know?

Because there was some big war ages and ages ago, something about potatoes and one side slaughtered the others in their sleep. SO now N. Ireland are there own country.*

*Sorry for the vauge description, but we never done it in History at school, my mates mum told me when I was about 9.

[banshee56]

How about seperating the western and eastern hemispheres for scheduling purposes, and then having a couple of final rounds at the end of the season comprising of the top half from each hemisphere?

Edit: Actually, there are only about 10 countries in the western hemisphere, so that wouldn't really work :p.

FYI...list of Western Hemisphere countries:

Antigua, Argentina, Belize, Bermuda, Bolivia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Easter Island (Chile), Ecuador, El Salvador, Falkland Islands (Argentina), Fernando de Noronha Archipelago (Brazilian territory), French Guiana, Galapagos Islands (Ecuador), Greenland, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Guatemala, Guyana (UK), Hispaniola, Honduras, Jamaica, Juan Fernandez Islands, Martinique, Mexico, Montserrat, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Puerto Rico, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent, Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, Suriname (Netherlands), United States, Uruguay,US Virgin Islands, Venezuela

[chanoman315]

Antigua, Argentina, Belize, Bermuda, Bolivia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Easter Island (Chile), Ecuador, El Salvador, Falkland Islands (Argentina), Fernando de Noronha Archipelago (Brazilian territory), French Guiana, Galapagos Islands (Ecuador), Greenland, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Guatemala, Guyana (UK), Hispaniola, Honduras, Jamaica, Juan Fernandez Islands, Martinique, Mexico, Montserrat, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Puerto Rico, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent, Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, Suriname (Netherlands), United States, Uruguay,US Virgin Islands, Venezuela
and the ones with bold, have S2 Licensed racers, very good ones, that deserve to take part in this races

[blackcarmafia]

Ahhh, can we not have Wales, Scotland, Ireland, N. Ireland & England as seperate nations??

@ Celtic100, don't worry m8, your not the only Welshman in the Village ;)

then we can seperate countries like india on 200 parts :thumb: , oh i forgot about Croat minority in Vatican and Monaco :D

[niall09]

then we can seperate countries like india on 200 parts :thumb: , oh i forgot about Croat minority in Vatican and Monaco :D

Really? Do you think if someone wanted to refer to Scotland, would they say Great Britain.

Also, Ireland is a SEPERATE country, it's a republic, and i don't think many Irish LFS'ers would want to race for Great Britain. :scratchch

[blackcarmafia]

ur all even more weird than we here, and we had war 10 years ago ... but u are still milking that few houndreet years old stuff

[niall09]

but u are still milking that few houndreet years old stuff
Errr, no, it happened less than 100 years ago. If there is going to be a Great British team, why would Ireland (the Republic) be in it in the first place?

Im all in for having seperate countries instead of the likes of Great Britain, this is supposed to Battle Of The Natons, right? Great Britain is no longer a country.

[Motörhead V8]

there are some very good racers here in brazil that may take part in this event

they show some interest, but the biggest problem is related to the different time zones

and sorry about the bad english :shy:

[duke_toaster]

FYI...list of Western Hemisphere countries:

...Falkland Islands (Great Britain, near Argentina)...

Fixed for you ;)

On the Ireland issue - we need to differenciate between Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK, and ROI which isn't. Northern Irish athletes in the olympics are part of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, have MSA as opposed to Motorsport Ireland racing licences etc... (OK, everything other than egg chasing).

There are two ways this could be done - like the Olympics (a UK team) or Football (ENG, SCO, WAL, NIR). Republic of Ireland is unaffected as it is not part of the UK.

I'd go for the Olympic setup for the sole reason that it does not cause talent dilution.

I'm waaaaaaaaay too slow to drive for the UK or England, but if you want someone who will try to be more Bruce McLaren than Steve McLaren, well, .....

[AstroBoy]

Woah step back insted of this Great Britian stuff and wars blah blah blah, Why not just look at the A1GP, Irland is a sepret team same with the world cup rugby team or soccer. Irland is sepret, and i have to agree its Nations not Countries.

[niall09]

Woah step back insted of this Great Britian stuff and wars blah blah blah, Why not just look at the A1GP, Irland is a sepret team same with the world cup rugby team or soccer. Irland is sepret, and i have to agree its Nations not Countries.

Are they not the same thing? :shy:

[AstroBoy]

Are they not the same thing? :shy:

Alright you got me there bet it made you laugh :P, but it can also depend on what light you look at it on. Right?

[count.bazley]

It's quite simple, there are only 2 countries in the British Isles: (the Republic of) Ireland and the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). Whilst England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland might be called countries by a lot of people it's like calling Florida or California etc. a country.

[duke_toaster]

It's quite simple, there are only 2 countries in the British Isles: (the Republic of) Ireland and the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). Whilst England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland might be called countries by a lot of people it's like calling Florida or California etc. a country.

Thank you.

[niall09]

It's quite simple, there are only 2 countries in the British Isles: (the Republic of) Ireland and the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). Whilst England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland might be called countries by a lot of people it's like calling Florida or California etc. a country.

So are you saying that if there was a Great British team, Rep of Ireland would be part of it? If so, i dont think many irish people will be happy :tilt:

[count.bazley]

No, Great Britain is not a country, the United Kingdom is. Ireland is entirely seperate like I said, and Northern Ireland is with the UK.

[niall09]

No, Great Britain is not a country, the United Kingdom is. Ireland is entirely seperate like I said, and Northern Ireland is with the UK.

Yes :thumb:

[The General Lee]

Well Done to count.bazley for sorting that out. I still think England, Scotland etc should be seperate teams.

We dont want a Scots man driving for the UK, we want a Scots man driving for Scotland, an English man driving for England, a Welsh man..ah, you get the picture.

[chanoman315]

ok thanks Dan,

Germany
United Kingdom
United States of America
France
Australia
Finland
Canada
Spain
Netherlands
sweden

will be automatically entered
so those countries will compete? only?

[AstroBoy]

so those countries will compete? only?

No they will be an Auto Entry into the league, the next lot of countries will proberly be wild card, or chosen ect.

Such as New Zealand Italy Switzerland and Malaysia and Brazil just naming a few though finding those drivers is proberly the part but wouldn't mind seeing them entered.

[dawesdust_12]

Well Done to count.bazley for sorting that out. I still think England, Scotland etc should be seperate teams.

We dont want a Scots man driving for the UK, we want a Scots man driving for Scotland, an English man driving for England, a Welsh man..ah, you get the picture.


Do you really want a team going "Baaaah"? (referring to Welsh team :p)

[The General Lee]

ROFL.

I was going to slip in a little joke about the Welsh, then decided against it, in case the Welsh went mental. :tilt:

I still think UK should be split into different teams.

[duke_toaster]

Welsh jokes are not under UK law inciting racial hatred as the welsh are not a separate ethnic group :thumb:

[dawesdust_12]

It also wasn't intended as an insult, so much as a calm poke of fun.

[Arrow.]

Entries/signups are now open
So get your Nation Entered.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=564413#post564413

[Motörhead V8]

any ideas on wich combos will be used?

i read that they will be from MHR right?
but all of them will be used?

[duke_toaster]

It looks like an interesting format ... just one thought though.

Who picks the teams for each nation? May I suggest each team has a (preferably non driving) captain* so we don't have A - power vacuums leading to bitching, whining and teams leaving or B - a driving captain who is rubbish but keeps on picking himself, leading to bitching, whining and teams leaving.

I personally would happy to sign up for LFS "national service" and captain the UK :D

*I've used the word captain (that's what they call them in the Ryder Cup) ans motorsport teams don't have a person labelled as a manager. Call them sporting directors or managers if you want.

[chanoman315]

Entries/signups are now open
So get your Nation Entered.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=564413#post564413
thx for this opportunity to let any nation take up in this event

EDIT: how many racers per Nation?

[Jonas8431]

here we go!!

I suggest delete combos from SO and shorts tracks with fast cars, if the races would be for 32 drivers (1 server).

I suggest delete combos from SO, if the races would be for 16 drivers (2 servers).

Any cars for me.

[Arrow.]

This will most likely be the combos. and start time for each
Combos are set to "Main Hotlap rank" Tracks/Cars so Nations can battle it out offline as well in the LFS World "Main Hotlap Nations Rank"

UF1 - AS cadet 20utc
XFR - SO town 10utc
XRT - BL gp 20utc
LX6 - FE black rev 10utc
FO8 - WE interntl 20utc
FOX - Aston Club 10utc
FXR - historic 20utc
FZR - KY gp long 10utc

[Motörhead V8]

any idea when the cup starts, and the interval between rounds ?

[AstroBoy]

FOX - Aston Club 10utc

Oh dear god no.

[Jonas8431]

any idea when the cup starts?

same question here

[TheBlackLion]

any idea when the cup starts, and the interval between rounds ?

Hi from Austria,

it would also be helpful to make our decision (if we enter or not) to know the dates on which the races should take place. Or at least what could be already said, like which weekday or how the dates will be decided.

It's because we have already a tight schedule and need to find out, if it fits in somehow.

Thanks & kr
Lion

[The General Lee]

FOX - Aston Club 10utc

You God!

[DeadWolfBones]

It's too bad this isn't going to be a ladder system type thing. It would make the time zone thing much easier, since you could just have a seeding system and the higher ranked team would get "home field" advantage in each round.

[TheBlackLion]

@arrow: You might not need it, since you already have a good web presence for managing a league with the battle of the teams league infrastructure - but liveforspeed.at would like to offer their platform, if needed.
Currently, they host 3 leagues: ÖLFSM (Austrian championship), the Summer Challenge and the F1 Challenge.

kr
Lion

[johnfromsunnymull]

Can i just say something i have realised that UK or GB has the 2nd biggest amount of players and one of the smaller ares, why not split into Scotland, England, NOI and Wales are all in one, now that is 4 countries who are more than capable of having there own team, and we are ALL different NATIONS!! and it would make it more fun to challenge each other has Scotland and England are very competetive to each other as im sure Wales and NOI have funa against us also, plus then you have 3 more countires talking part. Also it would be good if we had more than 2 people racing per team, and also that say on the race day, you have say 2-3 races one for the americans and candians etc...and ones close to them so they can all race and one for Europe as it would make it soo much easier, because you wont get an Australian staying up all night to race and vice versa for British.

So i would love to see it Scotland, England, ROI and Wales for the excitment and also people have more chance of reprsenting there country with if you had just GB or UK there are hundreds of people competig for there country.

_John_

Thanks

[chanoman315]

you have Bawbag :( :D

[johnfromsunnymull]

hehe yea i go to the same school as he did, i live about 20 miles away from him hehe, yea but doesnt make a difference im sure he himslef would rather race for Scotland than not at all!

But yea he is fast...! bloody fast at that

[Arrow.]

yes, Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales with be separated.If they submit a entry

[niall09]

Thats good to hear. :)

If you submit your country, do you become team captain?

[Arrow.]

No.
for example:
England LFS members will vote for Captian/manager.

[johnfromsunnymull]

yes, Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales with be separated.If they submit a entry

Ok i have allreayd submitted one for Scotland so thats good to hear!

Mon The Scotts!

[chanoman315]

So if we are in, can we start to make the poll and stuff?

[The General Lee]

You need FOX/Aston Club & FBM/South City Chicane.

[Tweaker]

First round on March 1st is MoE's 5th round of BLGP 6hr. Everything else looks fine.

[ElvisArg]

Calendar (Proposed)
Round 1 - March 1st
Round 2 - March 22nd
Round 3 - April 12th
Round 4 - May 3rd
Round 5 - March 24th
Round 6 - June 14th
Round 7 - July 5th
Round 8 - July 26th



I think that would be May.:smileypul

[banshee56]

CoRe Racing has two 44 slot servers from 500Servers.com (in Texas), one of which is normally reserved for League Of The Americas, but if needed, we can provide both of our servers for these events.

We also have a 24 slot Ventrilo server (located in Chicago) that we could utilize as well.

[Ondrejko]

do you have official logo of this championship? i would like to use it on my website (i prefer *.psd or *.png)

[joshdifabio]

You need FOX/Aston Club & FBM/South City Chicane.
lol?

[chanoman315]

how many drivers per team?

[mogster]

32 slots for entrance countries. Does that mean 1 driver per country and full grid? If so, then it blows. I think in the past nations cup they did at least something right. And that was the groups and three drivers per country. And I'm not too keen for the MHR-combos. Well maybe that's just me.

So what we need is groups (to avoid the timezone mayhem) and more drivers per country (to represent the country and not just some über fast ninja pwning for Luxemburg).

Well, that's what I think.

[Ondrejko]

So what we need is groups (to avoid the timezone mayhem) and more drivers per country

+1

[duke_toaster]

(to represent the country and not just some über fast ninja pwning for Luxemburg).

There already is one - Alain Lang :P.

I'd like to see it run as two car teams, as many servers as needed to house them. Quali sorts out who is in which. Like BOTT.

BTW, another entries related point - http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=35646 .

[joshdifabio]

I agree that there should be at least two drivers per country in each race.

I also think that, unlike with BoTT, there should be a limit to the number of times each driver can race. It shouldn't be possible for a country to just use the same driver(s) in every race.

[duke_toaster]

I also think that, unlike with BoTT, there should be a limit to the number of times each driver can race. It shouldn't be possible for a country to just use the same driver(s) in every race.

I'd agree with you there if there was not one problem - what about smaller nations that can only get two or three drivers, all of which are committed.

I'm not that keen on MHR either, it also means no RallyX. Maybe RB4 at BL Rallycross would be a great addition.

[joshdifabio]

I'd agree with you there if there was not one problem - what about smaller nations that can only get two or three drivers, all of which are committed.

I'm not that keen on MHR either, it also means no RallyX. Maybe RB4 at BL Rallycross would be a great addition.

What about countries with only one committed driver? I know it sounds harsh but I think it that if countries can't get at least 4 or 5 drivers then they aren't ready to compete. There should be enough suitable countries to sustain the competition.

[Kirill.D]

Im planning to make skin for my nation... I need to know , will there be some special numberplates , does the skin need to be with future LFS World Series logo etc ? If i dont know it its hard to do skin, because i have to leave space for these things :)

[NelsonGPV]

2 drivers will be fine, sounds good.
:thumb:

[nikimere]

eh, i don't see Ireland on that list??

[Bean0]

eh, i don't see Ireland on that list??

There's certainly an Ireland signup thread...I've seen it.

Edit: and you've posted in it :confused:

[qstomeq]

change the combos arrow , till its not too late

[duke_toaster]

Not needed IMO, the combos look OK other than one or two - FOX at Aston Club (FE Green is a nice track for the FOX IMO) doesn't look good and maybe the UF1 at Fern Bay Club ...

(Yes, I do have a Fern Bay fetish).

[chanoman315]

Arrow. are those the official combos for the series?

[Gaas]

Just wondering, i can see Croatia on the list here http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=31858

But its not here in list, and there´s no Croatia subforum..

[duke_toaster]

Just wondering, i can see Croatia on the list here http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=31858

But its not here in list, and there´s no Croatia subforum..

I think he has to ask Victor to add them.

[Tweaker]

I know this sounds a bit odd at first, but I've been thinking about how you really accept each nation's drivers for the races.

If you think about it, each nation wants to compete with their fastest drivers. But what if some average/amatuer drivers want to participate? They will surely be counted out, and wont have the opportunity to race. Why not make a division of fast drivers and a division of amateur drivers. Though this idea would make it harder to manage, I think it would give everyone the chance to help their country's points!

If each country has enough entries, everyone willling to participate in the given combo would qualify for their country. The fastest drivers for Country A would have to choose one driver for the race with the pro division 1. And the amateur drivers of Country A (those who qualify with slower times) would have to choose a driver for the amateur division 2.

How the points would be tabulated, I am not exactly sure. Either add up division 1 & 2's points together to get the countries results. Or run two divisions seperately for points.
-----------------

The only reason I bring this up is because I remember so many people that signed up for their country in the Nations Cup, and they didn't get a chance to drive simply because they were slow, and only the fastest ones had the chance (and usually only 2 or 3 fast ones countries want to use). Other people should at least get the chance to help.

OR

How about a rule for how many times one driver can drive for their country? This would allow an even distribution to who gets to race, so it isn't 100% Bawbag domination from Scotland so-to-speak :D. If one fast driver was only allowed 2 or 3 races, then other people could get a chance, and the country will have to figure out strategy for what combos people can prepare for. Works much better this way.

[richard3310]

use the A1GP setup as in using a different driver for every other event or if there is enough use a division 1 and 2 and then hold a final at the end for the top half of each division to race it off for the title of the fastest nation

[duke_toaster]

Tweaker, as good an idea that would sound it would disadvantage smaller nations. Could Northern Ireland or Luxembourg really get that many drivers?

Besides, in the World Cup, it's a matter of the best eleven players from each nation that get sent, not the best eleven and eleven guys from Blue Square Premier or something.

Maybe have a separate division for B and C teams (provided they are ran by the same guys that run the main national side). Possibly have it like the German football leagues, where Bundesliga 2 they have Bayern Munich and so-on's B teams, but they can't get promoted.

EDIT : Please not the A1GP system, I personally would just go for exactly the same format as BOTT as it worked.

[richard3310]

so when do we get some provisinal dates for this league?

[richard3310]

what was the BOTT format (sorry i didnt get chance to race it)

[duke_toaster]

what was the BOTT format (sorry i didnt get chance to race it)

I didn't race it either (and I won't be behind the wheel in this as the other people in Team England are much faster than me)

Two drivers per team in each race, three servers. A lottery decides which team is on which for qualifying. The times from the sessions are totalled up and, irresepctive of the team, the drivers were put in to servers on time.

The only bit I would change is the irrespective of the team bit, I'd like to see the nation's best qualifying time count for both drivers myself.

[nikimere]

Ireland still not on the entry list..... :shrug:

[J@tko]

so when do we get some provisinal dates for this league?

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=35454

If that's what you mean. :thumbsup:

[Kronvall]

Sweden isnt on the entry list either and it would be nice with a Swedish sub-forum also. ;)

Thanks.

[PaulC2K]

Provisional, and almost certain to be moved forwards/backwards by at least a week. ;)

[PaulC2K]

Keep ya knickers on Niki :razz:
i'll get it added in a minute, though im sure i added it because i've mentioned it elsewhere.
Infact, it has, so has Sweden, except its done in the correct location (Entries thread).

Regarding the format, its still being discussed, not much has been said partly because Arrow is away at the moment, but we are definately going to look into ways to ensure the title isnt decided by 1 driver. The idea is to find the fastest racing nation, and with that we want the nation to be involved, not 1 or 2 people from it, so whether there is a limit on the number of times anyone 1 driver can take part, or saying at least X different drivers must be used, or something completely different, we dont know yet, but suffice to say we'll be trying to ensure as many people get to compete as possible because its no fun turning up every week to try and win a spot in the actual race if you know you have no chance of beating a driver, so the strength, depth & commitment of each nation will be important as to whether they're accepted in.

[germanpio]

Start time: 10UTC & 20UTC rotated each round.


What is the starting time for the first event? The rest is then easy ;)

[Koa128]

Easy guys, Arrow hasnt updated first post since december 27th, seems he has gone to far with new year celebrations and still trying to recover :D

BTW Argentina isnt there yet, soon we'll have and update with a complete nation line up

[eimer_]

Start time: 10UTC & 20UTC rotated each round. wouldn´t X utc & X+12 utc be more logical for something worldwide? if there are other then pure mathematical reasons for the second start time, then nvm :tilt:

[PaulC2K]

Haven't i just pointed out that the series format is still very much in discussion? :razz:
The whole thing (short of it being nations vs nations) is still not set in stone, its a big soft ball of putty and once Arrow is back things will become a little clearer shortly after.
I doubt there will be 2 start times, mainly because it'd be confusing having it change every other race and also because the 'piggy in the middle' continent will get shafted with something along the lines of 3am & 3pm so the continents eitherside can have 10am & 10pm each, and if its 10&20 UTC then piggy is North America, and typically they always will be as the shortest timeline is AUS -> NA -> EU, so for the time being at least, i dont think anyone should worry too much about whats said, think of it as the series concept, the final version might be altered in a few places.

[keiran]

I see the calendar says it's `proposed.` Problem for me is I work all day Saturday (10-9) so just checking what the possiblity is of the day changing, if there is I'll keep an eye out and see whats happening :)

Keiran

[Tweaker]

While looking at the proposed calendar, I have some skepticism about whether or not we should start at that time.

As I said in an earlier post in this thread, March 1st is MoE's penultimate round at Blackwood, and most nation's drivers will be participating I am sure (Argentina, England, USA, Germany, etc). Surely a different time for the races to begin could be managed.

But that isn't the real reason why I post here. I am worried with some countries and their amount of sign-ups, and the progress of this league so far. Team managers and skinners will have to get working on skins, and nothing is really 'intact' or moving right now it seems. Is this league really going to happen? Rules or procedures are not established, nothing is confirmed exactly either.

Just don't want this to be another dying Nations Cup if you know what I mean. :o Granted this is probably one of the toughest leagues to conceive and manage, I still think we are running out of time even after a month of waiting, and nearly a month to go.

[PaulC2K]

Tweak, Arrow has been on holiday since New Year, was either the a couple of days before or after, so while there has been a little bit of discussion, we cant come to any form of conclusion without Arrow being a part of things.

As for the MoE clash, its been pointed out and is only a proposed calander, ive said somewhere in here it'll almost certainly be moved forward/backward a week to get the best result for everyone concerned. Theres still 6 weeks till the first proposed date, there isnt any real deadline that its being rushed to meet and so far all thats been asked is for confirmation of interest in taking part in the series with the rough structure thats been given for it, finalising all the details will come soon enough.

[PaulC2K]

Day change for UK/EU folk, i'd say a fairly confident nil.
If you move it forward a day then in Aus they'd be racing early hours on a Monday morning, and obviously going back a day puts the America's & Europe in Friday which isnt going to work either.
I dont think it'd be possible to move the race day for a series such as this to any other day because of the timezone issues, and the proposed start times are pretty much the times you start & finish work.

[duke_toaster]

Lots of footballers in the Premiership are missing two months or so from the season to be part of their nation's team for the African Cup of Nations. This includes star players such as Didier Drogba and Mike Essien for Chelski, Kolo Toure for Arse(nal) and so-on. It won't be as bad as this as it's only one round (compared to about ten matches), why can't that happen in LFS?

Actually, they won't need to miss MOE races at all, the driver could just do an early stint so it doesn't clash. Or even do Coke 600/Indy 500 scheduling (have about one hour between the races).

And Tweaker, you mentioned team managers ... I'd greatly appreciate it if those elections could be done as soon as possible ...

[Arrow.]

Im back from Holidays now, good to be back :)

Nation team manager applications will close 25th January for voting.
If you would like to be team manager find your nations subsection and sign up now.

[r4ptor]

Yes, Josh - you are very bad.

;)

[NelsonGPV]

While looking at the proposed calendar, I have some skepticism about whether or not we should start at that time.

As I said in an earlier post in this thread, March 1st is MoE's penultimate round at Blackwood, and most nation's drivers will be participating I am sure (Argentina, England, USA, Germany, etc). Surely a different time for the races to begin could be managed.

But that isn't the real reason why I post here. I am worried with some countries and their amount of sign-ups, and the progress of this league so far. Team managers and skinners will have to get working on skins, and nothing is really 'intact' or moving right now it seems. Is this league really going to happen? Rules or procedures are not established, nothing is confirmed exactly either.

Just don't want this to be another dying Nations Cup if you know what I mean. :o Granted this is probably one of the toughest leagues to conceive and manage, I still think we are running out of time even after a month of waiting, and nearly a month to go.

I think LFS WS should be very solid and well organized, as well as promoted there is no sense to hurry just because we want to start racing.
If we have to wait more weeks it will be fine as long as everything is well cover.

I thing we had a great beginning.
:thumb:

[TheBlackLion]

Since the first race is already on 1st of March, would it possible to define the combo for at least the first race?

And is it planned to assign race numbers to the drivers. Would be nice to know for Skin creation.

Thanks,
Lion

[Tweaker]

I don't think the cars will need numbers, the country is their number so to speak. Whatever drivers for their country will probably have the driver name on the car, that is it I imagine.

[NelsonGPV]

I don't think the cars will need numbers, the country is their number so to speak. Whatever drivers for their country will probably have the driver name on the car, that is it I imagine.

Numbers could be a problem because maybe somo of us will choose the same, so I agree only nation colors is fine.

Why we just don´t move 2 weeks ahead so we can wait for the full calendar otherwise it seems to me calendar will be arranged according admins convinience.

And strategy speaking as a country we need to know other combos to start training.

brainStorimng...
:thumb:

[Kirill.D]

I agree totally with NelsonGPV , not only because of calendar, also that we need more time for preparations. Even nation leadears haven't been voted yet, also if we start soon then it will be damn hurry with skins... so i think it would be rational to move all thing 2 weeks ahead, so everyone have time to prepare themselves. Skins, sets etc...

When will there be polls for voting nation leader ? Or every community has to do it themselves... ?

[TheBlackLion]

Since the current race dates are in discussion, I want to add my 2 cents:
For Austria, the dates are fine. Please don't move them. But we would have no trouble, if the first race is canceled / moved to the back.
And overall, we also have no problem with the current date for the first race, as long as the race details are announced soon (combo, length, qualifying mode, weather, ...)

kr
Lion

[Kirill.D]

Arrow - when will poll's for Nation Leader open ? Or how will they be elected ?

[TheBlackLion]

Thanks for announcing the (proposed) combos.

But I still have to continue being a pain in the neck :sorry:

Can you give details regarding the participation of the drivers per race? Two, Three? Any regulations, how often a driver is allowed to participate or is this completely up to the team manager?

kr
Lion

[Arrow.]

Everything that hasnt been announced is still in discussion with the series organisation team.

please hold tight your questions will be anwsered shortly :)

[Leandrus]

- We will be removing those Nation Entrys who cannot show us full commitment for the whole series. Entries will be cut down to 28 or 16 commited teams.
1 Week (Closes 9th February) will be given for Nations to show there commitment to the series with more signups. Teams will be cut from the series after this Date.

OMG... Please, tell me that not true, so my country Venezuela could be cut out of this tournament just because we have not enough licensed drivers? Because we have like 400 users but sadly only 4 licensed drivers and the four of us are more than committed to run in this tournament. Or should I tell all demo drivers to signup as support or something so you can see our commitment?

[duke_toaster]

I got 323 on LFS World for Venezuela, but is that people registered at LFS.net or S2 licences...

[Leandrus]

323 Registered at LFS.net an from those just 4 licensed including myself :shrug:

[duke_toaster]

Silly me, I thought that only showed S2 licenced drivers.

Look, if you can get a 100% turnout from your country and you mean business, I feel sure Arrow will let you participate - I would. But I'm not Arrow.

The rule looks like it's there to stop time-wasters (which no-one likes), not small countries (which people like).

[PaulC2K]

There will almost certainly be a limit to how many times a driver can participate in the series too, and i think ~3 was the general opinion, the idea isnt for a couple of people to do every single race, its a test of the competing countries drivers, not a tiny minority of them.

How it could be considered that with only 4 fully licensed drivers, it can consider itself a fair representation of a nation ive no idea, and thats the reason behind trying to ensure more drivers take part, it isnt a who has the fastest driver competition, and at the same time it also means more people are involved rather than the same drivers turning up week in, week out, and the other folks of that country never getting a chance to drive.

It has to be in the best interest of the series, and the drivers taking part, and allowing only 4 drivers to represent any country, whether there are 100 people signed up or 4, its not a good model for what we think provides the most entertaining and challenging test on a team. We want to see as many people driving for their country as possible, and if we dont implement a restriction of the number of times people take part, it means the majority of people signed up wont get close to getting a seat in the actual race, and personally i'd like to see 6-8 drivers being used, it'd soon get boring practicing for a race you know damn well you'll never get to race in while X, Y & Z are there and have done every other race so far, and the only way to do this is my bringing in these restrictions.
It ensures that a reasonable number of people geniunely want to participate and having 1-2 people unable to race, be too busy with other commitments or getting bored dont make the team unable to compete in a round, it provides more opportunities for people to take part and feel they're a part of things, and as mentioned a second ago, hopefully it means all teams signed up finish the series without any drop-outs & empty slots, we have no guarantee that all the people who've signed up geniunely are interested, have a suitable racing ability, and are committed to taking part. So countries with very little interest are considered a higher risk, if they're not invited this time round, there will be future seasons and hopefully word will get around and interest from those nations will increase.

Personally, i'd love to see more non-European entries, but the sheer numbers make it hard to give a team with double the signups the boot purely because it'd be nice to have a mixture of teams from around the world and non-European signups are particularly low at this moment in time, hopefully this will change.

[Leandrus]

Well... we are really sad, I suppose we have to wait and see what will happen anyway.
It’s all in hands of Arrow and he has to do what is right for the league and I support that.
I’ll keep an eye on all this anyway.

[NelsonGPV]

I agree with PaulC2K

It is better to have different drivers in the series, this will force nations to work as a team.
Maybe to keep it simple driver cannot race more than 3 rounds speaking under the idea of having 3 Racers on the series. And last round nations decide who will race, or another racer.

Still brainstorming
:scratchch

[Tweaker]

Well look at France for example. You know they could be a good competing nation, but they have no signups. Personally, I don't think you've spread the word much about this series.........

And unconfirmed dates and races make people unsure of signing up!

[Kirill.D]

I don't want to be annoying, BUT, i still haven't got answer for the question : How/when will be nation managers choosed ?

[PaulC2K]

Tweak, yeah, they're not the only ones though, i brought this up in our little secret hide-out the other day, In just Europe alone its missing countries such as France, Italy, Spain, Portugal & Hungary.

Personally, im not all that interested in the first season finding the definative answer to the 'whos the fastest country' question, i think its far too big a challenge to nail it first time of asking, and if those 5 countries havent got a single sign-up then it doesnt bother me too much, once the series is established and has some success to build upon, then it'd be a problem if the big countries didnt participate, but in *my* opinion, the first season should just treated be a test run and try to ensure the basis of how its run is solid and practical, otherwise when you have double/triple the countries taking part it looks a complete shambles if problems arrise.
Its almost like what we have in MoE right now, something completely out of the organisers hands is undermining the series and turning an established series into a joke (with some help!). That was with something out of their hands, but if something which could have been avoided crops up, it just makes things look badly organised and has a damaging impact which can easily spread and have a lasting effect.

As for the other matters, im not the one with the final decision on these things, and i cant really help much on those as a few things were done before any internal group discussions had started, but im not sure why were using dates we know we wont go with are being displayed 6+ weeks after being informed they werent suitable. For all we know adding a week could bring up similar troubles (they do), so we need to establish the dates asap until we find something suitable and then we have something set in stone, too many things are unconfirmed/undecided at the moment.


Kirill:
Managers will be sorted out in about 10-14 days time, there will be a week until the competing teams will be decided, and we've organised a seperate forum which we have full control over, in there each country will have their own private areas to discuss things, and there will also be a poll done so that the drivers can pick their chosen manager. The forum already exists and individual forums and usergroups have been created with the privellages set for each (extremely messy!) they're also individually themed for each country involved.

So,
How: private (anon) polls on a seperate and entirely private forum.
When: They'll be open between 6-13 days time (ie 7 day poll starting in 6 days)

[TheBlackLion]

Wow, the number of Sign-Ups has increased quite a bit recently. That's great.

Hey, if the minimum number of drivers a country will need exceeds 10, please let me know. Then I can take care to get the additionally required number of drivers for Austria.

kr
Lion

[Arrow.]

all posts from here http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=35454
have been moved here to keep things tidy, sorry for any inconvenience.

[Ondrejko]

why Slovakia is not in the list? we have 20 signups .... damn!

[PaulC2K]

We're not going to start getting through specific details for reasons why one country isnt invited while another is, the reasons for the decisions have been explained quite clearly in the post above, there was a lot more thought put into the list of competing countries than just counting how many people said they were interested. Quantity played a part, it was the first requirement, but it wasnt the sole requirement, many factors were taken into consideration to try and get a balanced line-up. Had there have been a few more none-EU countries with a reasonable signup they'd have pushed 1 or 2 EU countries out.

Dont take it personally, our choice was to just start with a small selection of countries, and once we know everything runs smoothly then thats when the series will begin to acheive what its aims are, consider this almost a test run, the future seasons will be where it gets much more interesting because of all the competition involved, but its much easier to start small and work up, its already an extremely ambitious project and were not naive enough to think we can hit the road running and come up with a series that tries to answer the question of which is the fastest country competing in LFS, and get an true answer at the first time of asking. We need some experience to know whether our format will work, were confident the structure is good, but we just want to start reasonably small and build it up once we can see its working.

[Brilwing]

To not let countries race that have more then enough drivers is a big mistake. :thumbsdow
The Nations-Cup failed cause of a bad organization had I think with such decision the LFS World Series will go the same way.

Let every one race! It is not technical problem, there are enough server available (we austrian can provide 2 decent servers), only the organization must find a solution for this, and there are lots of possible ways.

If you want to run the races on only one server then make a qualification round with 2 or 3 races prior to the main event, were e.g. 6 countries battle for the last 3 starting positions in the main event.
Here you have also the chance to see the the procedure of the event works.

As austrian what should I do? Train for an event were I don't know if I can participate. Come on, do you really think anyone on the reserve list is motivated anymore or in the future?

[PaulC2K]

Servers arent an issue, if we need 8, I can provide all 8 myself, thats far from being a problem.
We've already been through reasons why we dont want to do qualifying rounds, if we were limiting the season to 16 teams because thats how we wanted to run the series, then its fair enough there needs to be a suitable way to come to a conclusion as to who the best 16 are, however that isnt the case here, we dont plan to limit the number of countries in the future, but for this first season we just want to start small with 16 teams who have enough drivers to ensure even when half of them arent able to compete, there are still plenty who can, they have reasonable experience and suitable driving ability, and we also include a mixture of countries from around the world to ensure we get results similar to how it would be in future seasons.
Running qual rounds would just further delay the start of the first season, and still wouldnt ensure the better/more suitable team went through. If the dates clashed with other events or top drivers were unable to race, then its hardly any fairer than being told by the organisers we feel there are others more suitable we've decided to go for this season only.

As for comparisons to the Nations Cup, that had problems for a number of reasons, and one of the reasons we're keeping things small to start with is because we dont want to fall into any of the traps that series did, IMO it tried to do too much too quickly and was too stop-start-stop-start from the initial idea of the series to the completion of the first and only season. You have to look at it from more than 1 perspective, and we're trying to look at it from whats in the best interest of the series in the long term and short term, as well as for the people taking part in the series in exactly the same way.
Do you initially please everyone and just bow to pressure of not wanting to upset people and if something becomes a glaringly obvious issue, say lag/server instability, you end up with 30+ countries worth of drivers complaining about everything they disagree on, or do you start small and build upon it, if problems arrise its kept to reasonable proportions instead of p*ssing of half the LFS community. We're actually trying to plan things out to ensure something this complicated can actually succeed, we know similar attempts havent been successful, and thats why were not diving head first into some overly ambitous project thinking it'll work perfectly first time.

Deciding that a team isnt qualified enough to remove one of the other teams isnt an matter of questionable organisation, its an matter of having differing opinions on who should race and who shouldnt, and it was our opinion that there were 16 other countries with a more suitable line-up of drivers signed up to take part in this season, if there werent, then you'd have been in there, its that simple. The reasons behind our decision making was made 10+ days ago, as well as being suggested in part much earlier, it isnt like we've decided based upon some secret reason, that its actually the 16 teams that bunged us $20 to let them in. If you cant respect our decision, then thats your call, but we've been straight with our what our aims are as soon as we've come to decisions, we feel these were made in the best interest of the series in the long run and despite the fact that some people wont like this in the short term, we're confident in these actions. Its one season, its not the end of the world.

If we could please everyone without compromising the series in the long term, we'd be more than happy to do this, we certainly dont want to start alienate the very people we hope will be taking part in future seasons, but we felt that having a few people unhappy because of this was better than ignoring what history has shown us isnt an easy thing to acheive, and focus on the making of a successful series and hope people forgive these decisions, rather than starting something we cant easily manage and it flops just as it has in the past.
Taking an unsuccessful series with people who've already experienced the series problems first hand and convincing them that things have changed is a damn sight harder than convincing people who were turned down due to limited numbers, that its worth taking part in a series which is working successfully.

[Bawbag]

Kinda confuses me to see that Australlia has 3 entrys for drivers and teams like Slovenia and Slovakia both have 10+, pretty sure the decision wasn't made because they "have a high startup count".....:(

[Kaw]

I agree there. If fx. Austrailia got 2 drivers unable to race. They only have one. Seems kinda unfair. Imo. :scratchch
When Slovenia and others got 10+. As Bawbag said.

[PaulC2K]

If it was purely numbers, then it'd have a very American style meaning to 'World Series', as for each non-European entry theres a European one that has more signups to take its place.
Whats the point of doing it if its just Europe? We need to judge whether its feasable to have 32 people on a server when they're guaranteed to be spread all over the world, its not like MoE or any other event where 95% of the people are from the same continent, The N/S American countries are included along with Australia despite lower signups because we need this data, so exceptions can be made at this stage.

I guess it'd be better to kick them out, have it as only EU teams, have a great first season and then next time round have 20+ Aussie and likewise for the America's, and then have the server completely unraceable and listern to people bitch about why things like this arent tested first? Your damned if you do, damned if you dont.

[bbman]

[...]

You wouldn't think discarding countries like Slovakia or Sweden which both entered more than ten people for a three- and a six-man team is going to upset people? :really:

If you wanted to start small, why the hell didn't you? Starting big, getting cold feet and punting a good portion of people for the sake of TESTING is no better than having a league that had problems but at least tried! I've been an avid supporter of this project, but the way this was handled is very disappointing... Not because I might have to wait, but for how differently you acted to what you announced... This way, you lost a lot of trust, and I think not only from me...

[Arrow.]

I agree there. If fx. Austrailia got 2 drivers unable to race. They only have one. Seems kinda unfair. Imo. :scratchch
When Slovenia and others got 10+. As Bawbag said.

We want this to be a World Series not European series.

You wouldn't think discarding countries like Slovakia or Sweden which both entered more than ten people for a three- and a six-man team is going to upset people? :really:

If you wanted to start small, why the hell didn't you? Starting big, getting cold feet and punting a good portion of people for the sake of TESTING is no better than having a league that had problems but at least tried! I've been an avid supporter of this project, but the way this was handled is very disappointing... Not because I might have to wait, but for how differently you acted to what you announced... This way, you lost a lot of trust, and I think not only from me...

We announced we will be choosing 28 or 16 Nations and we have done that.

2nd February
- We will be removing those Nation Entrys who cannot show us full commitment for the whole series. Entries will be cut down to 28 or 16 commited teams.
1 Week (Closes 9th February) will be given for Nations to show there commitment to the series with more signups. Teams will be cut from the series after this Date.

[bbman]

We announced we will be choosing 28 or 16 Nations and we have done that.

Yes, I can read, thank you... However, how would you rate the commitment of big countries which have 8150 or 21565 racers respectively, but aren't able to enter 5 or just above 5 participants? I think piss-poor is the term... So where is this cut for not-so-committed teams, which you even quoted?

Just as a comparison: Sweden got 4391 racers and entered 11 drivers, Austria entered 9 of its 1579 racers, and the Slovak Republic got a massive team of 19 drivers out of 968! If that isn't a massive slap in the face, I don't know what is...

This doesn't deserve the title world series if willing countries are excluded for no good reason, at least not yet...

[Tweaker]

Why can't we sign on new drivers mid-season? It is completely closed out now for all nations?

[PaulC2K]

You wouldn't think discarding countries like Slovakia or Sweden which both entered more than ten people for a three- and a six-man team is going to upset people? :really:

If you wanted to start small, why the hell didn't you? Starting big, getting cold feet and punting a good portion of people for the sake of TESTING is no better than having a league that had problems but at least tried! I've been an avid supporter of this project, but the way this was handled is very disappointing... Not because I might have to wait, but for how differently you acted to what you announced... This way, you lost a lot of trust, and I think not only from me...
If we wanted the easy option and put little thought into our decisions, we'd have stuck everyone in there, watched half the teams leave or not show up, and called it Nations Cup #2, because thats what happened with that series, people said one thing, did another. The issue with Australia and a couple of the N/S American teams isnt ideal, but they are important to the running of the series, and because we still have plenty of time until the first race starts they can still look for additional drivers to add to the lineup. Before the signup had begun, it was fairly obvious there were 4 non-EU countries which would be needed, we wanted 5/6 or more non-EU teams, and depending on European signups the rest of the series setup would be decided, whether its 16 or 28-32 split over 2 servers.
We've had about 18 countries which had double figures for signups, plus the 3 non-EU countries, still falls well short. If you count all the counties with at least 1 signup, thats 26 in total.
There simply isnt enough teams to run 2 servers, yet we were 5 over fitting into 16 teams. There were already more than enough EU teams, so we picked those we felt were the strongest, and kept the 3 non-EU countries. Keeping everything in 1 server is far easier to manage too, and despite the fact that it meant we'd have to axe teams which could have taken part, there wasnt enough room for the only reasonable method we could use.

Running qualifying rounds wouldnt solve matters, it might have shut a few moaners up because they couldnt complain if they'd been kicked out, but it couldnt be ensured it'd be fair and accurate just as us axing those teams we felt were weaker can ensure it. The difference is, we dont have to organise preliminary rounds, allow time to practice, run them 3 weekends back to back disregarding any other events on those dates, and then further delayed the start of the series proper once those successful teams have been decided.


FACT: We never once suggested there would be more teams than have been selected, never gave any guarantees that signing up meant you'd be involved, or made any other similar assurances.


The deadline for the selected countries is closed, however sign-ups are NOT closed, and wont be until the penultimate round of the series is over, so whether a team such as Australia have 1 or 100 people signed up, they have at least 6 weeks to find enough drivers for round 1 and almost 6 months till round 7, however their involvement FAR outweighs that of yet another European country, were fully aware that a 32 slot server can hold 32 Europeans, however we need to spread the load over a far wider area, and doing that with 14 EU teams and 2 'others' isnt going to cut it, and insisting that non-EU countries should be dropped for more EU teams makes absolutely no sense at this stage in the series lifespan. A World Series with only European teams makes no sense, and could ultimately create problems in later series if their involvement makes things unstable. We're confident it wont, but it may require swapping and changing server hosting location till we find something that works for everyone, doing this with 20-30 countries mid-series would be considerably worse for the series than having to select the best 10 EU teams, and 6 non-EU teams, and pass on those not selected.


"Yes, I can read, thank you."
Really? We've stated perfectly clear the reasons we've selected those countries: signups, team strength, geographical diversity. Its there in black and white (light blue), what more do you want?? You've been given the reasons, and your insults wont change those, and certainly wont help the chances of any sensible suggestions being listerned to if yourself and others continue whining we'll just close the thread down and leave it there. If you geniunely have worthwhile suggestions, make them, otherwise complaining isnt going to change anything.


If anyone has questions then they can be asked, if you have a helpful suggestions then we'll listern to them, but if people just want to complain and not respect our decisions, then there posts will be considered unhelpful and intentionally disrumptive, and their posts will be removed and the thread possibly locked.
The reasons for these actions have been given, as they have been throughout the build-up to the season, we've never said one thing and done exactly the opposite, but if we did, there would be geniune reason for it, not for funsies.


Tweak:
No, certainly not, its still very much open for drivers to continue signing up for the countries invited to take part, the closing date for drivers signing up is effectively August (9th iirc), theres ~6 weeks for the first round, 20 something weeks till the last. The only deadline was for signups to come to a conclusion which countries we would go with, it was clear signups werent coming in that significantly which would change things in any helpful manner, so we felt it best to made a decision with reasonable notice, to consider what we'd do, and which countries would take part. Currently there isnt any signup deadline, and there probably wont be, although its possible we'll introduce a restriction saying you cant race for the first 7 days from signup (competitively in LFSWS), this is just to ensure no last minute signups and people who've been practicing all week dont get 'chubbed' by someone jumping in at the last minute. Its not a confirmed rule, just something were discussing which we think is beneficial. It may not get implemented, as this is partly something the countries manager should be looking out for, if the involvement of new drivers annoys those who've been there a while practicing and arent getting a place because of 'queue jumpers' it could cause problems later down the line.

[Tweaker]

Tweak:
No, certainly not, its still very much open for drivers to continue signing up for the countries invited to take part, the closing date for drivers signing up is effectively August (9th iirc), theres ~6 weeks for the first round, 40 something weeks till the last.
Huh?

Everywhere I have been reading it has been February 9th, not August.

[DeadWolfBones]

Honestly I think a large part of the problem here is ineffective advertising. I know there are plenty of American drivers who would compete, but I don't think many know it's even going on. Has it even been announced outside this forum?

Several major LFS nations (Spain, Brazil being two that spring to mind) have very insular communities (either due to location or language barriers) and probably have even less exposure to this forum than others.

[PaulC2K]

Thats just the deadline we were using for assessing each countries lineup, we were just giving advanced notice that a decision would be made then (on those results at least) to try and encourage a few more people to sign up to help their countries chances of being invited.
Each country still involved can continue recruiting drivers to take part, theres definately not a complete sign-up deadline, at least till towards the end of the season.

[PaulC2K]

Honestly I think a large part of the problem here is ineffective advertising. I know there are plenty of American drivers who would compete, but I don't think many know it's even going on. Has it even been announced outside this forum?

Several major LFS nations (Spain, Brazil being two that spring to mind) have very insular communities (either due to location or language barriers) and probably have even less exposure to this forum than others.True, although Brazils signup numbers arent a problem, and Spain (amongst others) signed their country up to take part (twice, both from the same community) and yet never came back to sign themself up and i'd guess didnt bother informing their community either.

[TheBlackLion]

Regarding the fact, that we had quite a good number of sign-ups (10) with the offer to arrange for more, if needed for participation, an agreed team manager candidate, have very good skills and racing experience, showed active interest in the series by following and participating in the discussion, even offering our help and infrastructure for the organization, and the fact, that our country is located on this world, I cannot really comprehend the decision of excluding us from this event.
Also it was also effort to get the attention and commitment of the drivers, designing a skin, arranging for training infrastructure and, in case it might be necessary, even making plans to adjust the time table of our currently running Austrian championship, to be able to participate in the world series. And it is a blame, to see this effort go to waste.

I also checked already with some of the drivers and there is no motivation to prepare for the series, if we are on the waiting list and it could be all for nothing. Therefore you can remove us from the reserve list.

Just to make it clear: We don't want to force ourselves onto the list of the 16 remaining nations. We want to apply for a mode, that allows all the signed-up nations to participate.

By the way: If you want to have a representative test as you talk about you have to arrange for a team from Africa. And I'm also not sure about Asia. Have you checked with the Russians, if they are from the European part or the Asian part? I guess you can skip Antarctica, because LFS won't work really well with satellite connections.

Maybe we should organize the LFSWSRSFNNATPATLFSWS (LFS world series replacement series for the nations not allowed to participate at the LFS world series). So at least our effort and the effort of all other nations not selected wouldn't be for nothing.

[Tweaker]

I just think you could definitely sign on more countries, and scrap this 2 driver per country deal. I was NOT expecting to try and get two drivers to compete in one race. I thought this was all about singularity.

With a 2 driver combination, it just makes it 10 times harder for nations to compete with points, and makes it far more imbalanced in my opinion. There are SO MANY disadvantages to make this fair when you have 2 drivers, I don't know what the hell you were thinking. To me, it looks like you decided to just exlude a lot of other nations just so you could get 16 countries to make the 2 driver idea work? Sure seems like it.

The league still appears to be very much in conception... hell I don't even know how you managed to get a subforum on here when going by Victor's requirements! And don't blame countries for not spreading the word, this league is very internal, and practically restricted to just this little forum in here, not many people know about it. Thankfully, because you moved the first race to the 22nd, perhaps we really do have more time to make a higher country count and start advertising more. Still plenty of time now with new dates.

Stuff the 2 driver idea, and get more countries, please!

[Bawbag]

Why not make it 3 drivers per team, include the extra countrys and fill up two servers. :)

[PaulC2K]

I just think you could definitely sign on more countries, and scrap this 2 driver per country deal. I was NOT expecting to try and get two drivers to compete in one race. I thought this was all about singularity.
Then read the forum, its no secret.

With a 2 driver combination, it just makes it 10 times harder for nations to compete with points, and makes it far more imbalanced in my opinion. There are SO MANY disadvantages to make this fair when you have 2 drivers, I don't know what the hell you were thinking. To me, it looks like you decided to just exlude a lot of other nations just so you could get 16 countries to make the 2 driver idea work? Sure seems like it.
Yeah, BOTT really struggled with 2 drivers, despite there being SO MANY disadvantages. With 1 driver there are TONS of advantages, like the fact that there would only be 20-22 cars on the track, and only 8 people would got to drive if each person is only allowed to drive once.
If you want to question the structure of the series, at least take a moment to consider what your suggesting!


Why not make it 3 drivers per team, include the extra countrys and fill up two servers. :)
That idea has a CONSIDERABLY higher likelyhood of being used than just 1 driver per country, i was thinking about it last night, because it would create 2 full servers with 20 teams, maybe 21 depending how it was split, but it does become slightly more messy at this point as you go back to having multiple servers for the race and qualifying, rather than everyone being on the track together and racing for the same set of places/points.
It also means one server could be full of EU drivers one week, the next it could be 50/50 EU/non-EU and could be problematic with packet loss/latency where at least cramming everyone into 1 server helped confirm if this could ever create a problem for the people taking part.

[Alles]

Kinda confuses me to see that Australlia has 3 entrys for drivers and teams like Slovenia and Slovakia both have 10+, pretty sure the decision wasn't made because they "have a high startup count".....:(

and we won Nations cup with Australia... i know it wasnt good organised but still...

[joshdifabio]

I thought this was all about singularity

Heh, really good point there, Tweak. Why on Earth would a "World Series" be all about singularity? It's a competition based on finding the best Nation, not the best driver; it's about working in unison with your compatriots, not about winning by yourself, for yourself.

Contrary to what you may believe, we've had a lot of internal discussion about all of the mentioned rules, and you've not exactly presented any concise arguments as to why anything should be changed.

I do sympathise with those teams which haven't made the cut, and maybe Bawbag's idea of 3 drivers per team, split over two servers, is a good one. I think the plan is to keep things managable for the first season though, and then, if it's a success, it can probably be expanded to include more countries in the future.

[chanoman315]

Several major LFS nations (Spain, Brazil being two that spring to mind) have very insular communities (either due to location or language barriers) and probably have even less exposure to this forum than others.
I raced with Spain a little bit.. like 3 months... and i told them to signup... and they did.. like 3 mins after i told them, and i think that that is no the problem

[Tweaker]

Heh, really good point there, Tweak. Why on Earth would a "World Series" be all about singularity? It's a competition based on finding the best Nation, not the best driver; it's about working in unison with your compatriots, not about winning by yourself, for yourself.

Contrary to what you may believe, we've had a lot of internal discussion about all of the mentioned rules, and you've not exactly presented any concise arguments as to why anything should be changed.

I do sympathise with those teams which haven't made the cut, and maybe Bawbag's idea of 3 drivers per team, split over two servers, is a good one. I think the plan is to keep things managable for the first season though, and then, if it's a success, it can probably be expanded to include more countries in the future.
Well I thought this was going to be like A1GP format... not just another resurrection of BOTT only using so-called "compatriots".

Singularity, think about what I mean. Having 2 people represent ONE country (Not "driver", take off your stupidface) in a race is not exactly fitting that criteria.

I really don't think you understand my arguments at all, or have really put the thought through as to why using 2 or more drivers per country is a bad idea when looking at scoring points and fairness of racing. What ever happened to the discussion about one fast driver of a nation driving for the entire season? Do you have a rule for it? What prevents one nation from just sitting back and relaxing while one fast driver takes in all the points... or hell, even two fast drivers to increase the odds of scoring higher points? It is absolutely absurd to think that this will be fair. I guarantee you that one, if not, two nations will just have an incredible lead in points.

What was I hoping to see? I was hoping to see ONE driver participate for a nation on a given weekend, and a requirement that the nation switch up a new driver for the following race, and so on. This would require proper planning and strategy on the part of one nation, and not just a parade of good drivers as with your '2 driver' idea. Sure you will argue with a very typical quote "OH, what if the drivers of that nation are all fast, so?"... that's not my point. I was expecting to see nations participate with at least 6 or 8 different drivers, nearly one for each race... to mix things up a little -- actually A LOT. I definitely DID NOT want to see one driver take all the glory for a particular nation, where is the fun and diversity in that?

As for recruiting more nations, again I still believe (and it is quite obvious) that you figured some nations did not have enough sign-ups, therefore you eliminated them and saw that it could fit a two-driver-team on the grid, tada!, 32 drivers!!!!! :really: Real genius. I will STILL argue that you need to get more publicity, and get more nations to participate before you go off and make that decision. And before you go saying I do not have enough "concise arguments" and try to belittle my idea of good publicity, don't be a pretender and think you have spread the word about this league, you haven't.... and there are a lot of things you can do to have more participants.

I say again, the league is still very much a concept, and for a month and a half to run down on the calendar here, and then to just throw away all those sign-ups and potential nations really shows the dedication towards having a "world" series. Because I think it is quite clear that I want to see just as many possible nations on the grid as we can so you can live up to your name. Else, please just call it LFS World Series of Ambiguous Duos.

[PaulC2K]

Tweak, shut up and spend more than 2 seconds looking into the series, THEN comment!
Dont make assumptions, dont guess, dont whine about something if you dont even know anything but what little you've bothered to read, dont tell us we havent considered X, Y & Z just because you dont know we have (or bothered to read the announcements!)

If you cant find answers to questions you have, ask us, dont just go making assumptions because you dont know the answers and/or cant be arsed looking for them!

I've said it once before, if people want to moan or cant be bothered saying something constructive for the good of the series, then their posts will be deleted and the thread may end up getting locked and/or deleted, the same goes for people commenting on things they cant even be arsed to check their facts on!

[Tweaker]

You're the only one that is "arsed" to ANY criticism anyways, figures :rolleyes: :tilt:

What I say could be good for the series, don't tell me to shut up. My comments are just as equal to anyone else's ideas, no matter how similar or dissimilar they may be.

[PaulC2K]

What you say ignores any of the rules that are in place making 75% of the tripe you just posted irrelevent.
Yes, what you say COULD be good for the series, spend 2 minutes checking some of the rules or at least ASK for them, and maybe what you say would mean something instead of ranting about something you havent even got your facts straight on. If you want to be helpful, at least get your facts straight, dont assume and tell us were doing it all wrong.

[TheBlackLion]

Anyone seen my last post? :eye-poppi Seems it got lost somewhere. It should be here ... http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=706953#post706953

No, serious: censoring is as low as it can get. Guess you found no way to discredit me, since I was constructive and even offered support to the organization. And don't give me crap like "The post was off topic", because we have enough here, that wasn't deleted (e.g. arrows "hahaha" (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=551325#post551325) or Celtics "Sheep" (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=551370#post551370) - no offense).
Looks to me, that you got scared, that this Austrian, who seems to know, what he is talking about, will shake a full blown Nations Cup out of his sleeve, ending this circus of yours. Tell you what: we planned to do something on the European level starting this autumn, but we don't mind extending it to worldwide.

FACT: We never once suggested there would be more teams than have been selected, never gave any guarantees that signing up meant you'd be involved, or made any other similar assurances.

... Its there in black and white (light blue), what more do you want?? ...


What's there in black and white is not worth much, since you edit your posts as you like, even in the discussion forum. And regarding your FACT: As a fact I still remember 3 options to choose from, where 2 of them clearly suggested, there would be more than 16 teams. (Yes, quickly - edit these posts). And we also still have the headline "LFS World series will consist of the best drivers from all over the globe racing for their country in a variety of cars and track environments in order to find LFS's fastest Nation." which I'd call a promise regarding the unlimited participation for nations and drivers. But if that's not enough, how about "This is where all Sweden players can sign up to be apart of Swedens world series team." I thought, the "apart" was a typo, but it seems not, since you told the drivers, that they can participate as the Swedish team just to dismantle the team afterwards. Or do I have to wonder, since the drivers signed-up are apart the Swedish team, where the Swedish team is? Hint: Works also for the other Nations, you dropped.

And if you say you want to have as many drivers of a nation participate as possible, and then turn down 40+/50+ signed-up drivers, or when you turn down my argument, that a server, full with people from all over the world, will have connection problems, as nonsense bringing MoE as proof just to tell us later, that you need to do a test season with participants from all over the world, to judge, if a full server is feasible, since this series is not like MoE, with 95% participants from Europe, then I have to ask you: Why would you expect me to put any value in what you write?

Anyway: We plan to do a fun race in parallel to the first race of the world series for us and all other nations not participating in the world series. We will contact you (all signed-up drivers of non-participating nations), when the time has come - if you don't mind.

kr
Lion

[chanoman315]

Calm down guys... :schwitz:

[joshdifabio]

I really don't think you understand my arguments at all, or have really put the thought through as to why using 2 or more drivers per country is a bad idea when looking at scoring points and fairness of racing. What ever happened to the discussion about one fast driver of a nation driving for the entire season? Do you have a rule for it? What prevents one nation from just sitting back and relaxing while one fast driver takes in all the points... or hell, even two fast drivers to increase the odds of scoring higher points? It is absolutely absurd to think that this will be fair. I guarantee you that one, if not, two nations will just have an incredible lead in points.

As Paul has said; if you check the rules, you will see that we do infact have a rule in place to protect against this.

"Series specific rules
Each driver will only be able to participate in up to 3 races per season."

This means that each nation will have to use a minimum of 6 drivers.

[Tweaker]

dont assume and tell us were doing it all wrong.
Ok, so then what do you do when other leagues make a decision you think is unnecessary? You speak up, you make suggestions, right? You barking up other threads in other leagues for the past year, doesn't this all seem hypocritical of you to say I am the one stuffing your face with crap? And then to tell me to shut up? God damn!

What I say here is purely my suggestion, my 2 cents, whatever the hell you want to call it. 2 drivers for a country is a bad idea... and on top of that, excluding the other highly-potential countries is a real shame. It is sad to read the posts of excluded nations with their defense that they can no longer participate.

I am sure A LOT of other people here would like to see those countries still participating, why must you just get rid of them and think all is well. Don't these posts of ours give a clue? I certainly expected a great number of nations competing, but now it is only 16, and what am I to think?

Get as many countries as you can to sign up, you don't need to have a full grid... the first season is expected to be light I am sure. But by the time you have things established and if all is a success, the second season will surely have more interest from surrounding nations and drivers. If you go in and do a 16 country season, what will you do when next season starts? More countries will want to participate, and if you are open to more nations and want to do a one driver system, then are you fully prepared for it?

I can assume all I want, and doing a 2-driver system to fill a void is not what most nations were expecting to see. We expected to be up against 20, maybe 30, different nations on the track.
As Paul has said; if you check the rules, you will see that we do infact have a rule in place to protect against this.

"Series specific rules
Each driver will only be able to participate in up to 3 races per season."

This means that each nation will have to use a minimum of 6 drivers.
I already knew you had a rule Josh. What you quoted was trying to support the argument of ONE driver per nation along with that rule.

[joshdifabio]

What ever happened to the discussion about one fast driver of a nation driving for the entire season? Do you have a rule for it? What prevents one nation from just sitting back and relaxing while one fast driver takes in all the points... or hell, even two fast drivers to increase the odds of scoring higher points?

I already knew you had a rule Josh. What you quoted was trying to support the argument of ONE driver per nation along with that rule.

Maybe you should write more clearly in future, because obviously what you have written suggests otherwise; namely that we did not consider the possibility that countries would use certain drivers for the entire season.

There are several of us who've been discussing the rules and format of the competition, and none of us objected to having two drivers per team. Appie suggested that two drivers, generally, will prepare better than one, which I personally think is a good point. It also promotes more of a team or togetherness feel imo, which would seem key to this kind of competition.

Finally, I don't personally see a problem with a format similar to that of BoTT. It has been a successful competition, and, just because this is a competition for nations and not teams, the principal idea is still the same.

[PaulC2K]

Anyone seen my last post? :eye-poppi Seems it got lost somewhere. It should be here ... http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=706953#post706953



No, serious: censoring is as low as it can get. Guess you found no way to discredit me, since I was constructive and even offered support to the organization. And don't give me crap like "The post was off topic", because we have enough here, that wasn't deleted (e.g. arrows "hahaha" (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=551325#post551325) or Celtics "Sheep" (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=551370#post551370) - no offense).
Looks to me, that you got scared, that this Austrian, who seems to know, what he is talking about, will shake a full blown Nations Cup out of his sleeve, ending this circus of yours. Tell you what: we planned to do something on the European level starting this autumn, but we don't mind extending it to worldwide.

Nations Cup #2 - I like that. Might be better than LFSWSRSFNNATPATLFSWS. What do you think? :D
Vykos, do you have a copyright on that, or something? :P
Yes, That was completely on topic, and wow, your so right, it was very constructive, offered amazing support to the organisation. Its true, we were very scared of what you had to say, this Austrian does seem to know what he's talking about... yawn.
Why oh why did we chose to delete your post considering ALL it had to offer!?

What's there in black and white is not worth much, since you edit your posts as you like, even in the discussion forum. And regarding your FACT: As a fact I still remember 3 options to choose from, where 2 of them clearly suggested, there would be more than 16 teams. (Yes, quickly - edit these posts).
Yet more unconstructive moaning from you, you'll noticed that the post hasnt been edited for almost 48hrs, and that clearly gives you the explanation of why those countries have been picked, and despite those reasons being very clear and being factually accurate to the t