Lower slipstream + Boost button..

[alexoxol]

We hear from every quarter:
"..It's so sad to watch open-wheels swapping places with each other because of increased slipstream effect.. And that's what they call 'close racing'.." :(
Others say:
"..It's so sad to see that open-wheels can't keep up with the car in front because of too much decreasing of downforce.." :(
So, I have suggestion (especially for open-wheels):

Correct the amount and the distance where slipstream begins for the purpose of:


keeping up with the car in front of you in fast turns like the last turn at SO5 (before the start-finish straight);
avoiding mighty flight-shots from behind the car in front of you on straights;
And in addition:

Implement boost button like in several open-wheel series to increase horsepower by 20-30 for some seconds. This feature would be good with possibility of server-side restriction with several options (no boost, boost 1-10 times per race, boost whenever you want).
This combination will benefit both people who want more overtakings and people who want more realism.

[Smp]

Well, it looks reasonable.

[VIP UA]

It's a pretty good idea IMHO, I've thought about it.. I hope devs will draw attention on it before this thread will disappear among the infinite number of posts...

[Alexey_Z]

The slipstream must be lower i think. Good suggestion.

[Vendetta]

The boost button was suggested before ini this thread:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=176&highlight=push+pass

I personally dont like the push to pass, but i agree that slipstream should be lowered.

[Gunn]

I think they should make it to mimic reality. If that means it is hard to follow another car then so be it.

Boost button is lame and detracts from skilled racing, it especially would in a race sim. It doesn't add value to real racing, won't to sim racing.

[RuGT]

I think the main slipstream problem is due to unfinished/unpolished aerodynamics to date. Fingers crossed, this (as a lot of other physics related things) will be solved in final S2 release

[Warper]

Sorry, but i hate the boost-button idea. It's totally unnormal for a car to get more power by pressing a button. I know, there are some series where you can found somethin like that, but beware to include that in LFS. ;)

More interesting is to think about the decrease of the coefficient of aerodynamic resistance while driving behind another car. Today we discussed the change of the coefficient at the university in our automotive engineering I lecture. Our script comprises the following graph:

http://www.steffen-behn.de/cw_wert.jpg

I'll try to translate:

On the y-axis, you see the percentage decrease of the c_w coefficient (Luftwiderstandsbeiwert = coefficient of air resistance)
On the y-axis, you see the distance between the front car rear end, and the rear car front end in meter.

The left graph is for trucks, and the right one for cars.

Black car in front, white behind: graph for percentage decrease per meter for the front car.
White car in front, black car behind: graph for percentage decrease per meter for the car behind.

So, you also see, that there is a decrease of air resistance for the front car, is that conisdered in LFS?

BTW: the air resistance is directly proportional to the coefficient of air resistance (c_w):

F_w = c_w * A * v² * air density / 2

Greetings,
Warper

[VIP UA]

2Warper:
You said: "It's totally unnormal for a car to get more power by pressing a button".. So, do you think that "getting more power" by forming up with another car is more realistic? ;-) I hope, that the aerodynamics bug will be fixed, and the boost button (really not necessarily for me) will be just a compromise for people who wanna shooooooot out mighty.

[alexoxol]

and the boost button (really not necessarily for me) will be just a compromise for people who wanna shooooooot out mighty.
Yep, I've really called the boost button an "addition" to my suggestion, just because the fixing of aerodynamics bug will cause dissatisfaction from people who like to overtake by slipstream bug.

[bbman]

You don't get more power because of the slipstream... It just unleashes the power usually used to nullify air resistance... ;)

[alexoxol]

Sorry, if somebody misunderstood me, but I know how air flow works and I know (WOW!!!) that slipstream is a real effect. We talking here just about "the amount and the distance where slipstream begins" (I quoted it from my first message).

[bbman]

I was more replying to VIP UA than you... You were just faster than me... ;)

[Hyperactive]

BTW: the air resistance is directly proportional to the coefficient of air resistance (c_w):

F_w = c_w * A * v² * air density / 2


If I may I put the explanations about those physics terms used in your equation:

c_w = air coefficient factor, relates directly to the form of the car, for water drop this is small, for a cube this is higher...

A = the frontal area of the car, for trucks this is bigger for F1 car this is smaller

v = speed difference between the air and car

I am not sure but the main reason for the coefficient drag getting lower behind other car is NOT about the c_w chaging. It's about the air pressure that changes around the car, when the car is going through some air. Check this link: Link1 (http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/photos/imgactu/zoom05/fia-cdg-z-01_241005.jpg) (from the thread Formula One Car For 2008 ? (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2541)

So what I am trying to say is that the thicker the air the more resistance. So less pressure = less resistance = less downforce.

Of course the subject is more complex than this, but I don't think the c_w changes (much).

And I like the idea in LFS that there are no TCS and stuff like that so you need to drive the car. But there must be something off in the slipstream system because even in CART they don't change positions all the time (and they have very little wing)...but no power buttons, I don't like the idea...

And sorry for my bad english, there may be some odd terms used :)

[XCNuse]

lol ya about to say.. this is like what push to pass is

but what good is it to go faster when you have no downforce..? then your really in a nutshell

[marsden1002]

WHy should we have a boost button?? SHoudlnt the cars be running at full BHP anyway.

What is the point in a boost button. Its like the new M6. You have to change a lot of options before you can get to the full 501BHP it offers. Why down-tune a car, when its got the power there??

(sorry if its off point a little.)

[LRB_Aly]

Well i can imagine that for the M6 you can change options cause of many things: If you drive in normal traffic you probably don't need the full power, so it is "down-tuned" through motor managment to decrease the fuel consumption (would be logical). Race cars also don't run on full power all the time, look at the old F1 turbo days. They had other turbo pressures for qual than for race cause with qual pressure the turbos wouldn't have last for a race. Or today when the safety car is on track, they change the mixture and some other things to save fuel. Don't know how it is now but when changes were still accepted between qual and race they even drove with less revs in race than in qual.

[alexoxol]

Well, lets take the boost button away from discussion, ok? I added it really mostly for fun, it is not worthy of notice.. What about the main question of topic? ;)

[Chaos]

I had similar thought... http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=1454