The UF1 is too "powerful"

[de Souza]

Since this isn't a improvement suggestion (it's more like a doubt), i'm posting here. Searched for it and didn't find anything, so...

I was trying some autocross layouts with the UF1 and found that when you turn and accelerate, the wheel spins - mainly because it has open diff (am i right?). I know the car is very lightwheight, but how come it can do that in third gear at 80km/h??

I drive a lot a renault clio (1 litre engine, ~70hp) and i don't remember it spinning wheels like that even on first gear. Yes the clio is much bigger and have wider tyres, but still... Also, the only car I drove that you really had to release the gas due to wheel spinning on turns was a fiat brava (but that's a 132hp 1.8 litre engine), and only on first gear. That was the "tougher" car I drove :shrug:

So, the UF1 can really do that? If no, what's the problem?

thanks... :)

[Zachary Zoomy]

powerful? I hate that car just becuase there isn't enough power.

[dropin_biking]

Well you can do the same on the XFG with it setup with an open diff, I think it's just because the way LFS emulates suspension physics, taking auto-x style corners takes ALOT of weight off the inside front wheel (show forces to get what I mean) So really, I don't think it has anything to do with the cars power.
~Bryan~

[de Souza]

powerful? I hate that car just becuase there isn't enough power.

i said "powerful", not literally. it's just the impression you get when driving it in a twisty course

[FC3SCorey]

Open diff, If it had something else I think the car would be alot of fun to throw around.

But with the open diff when you whip the car around it just brings the RPM up and nothing happens.

[Gener_AL (UK)]

I really wish UF1 could have a wider choice of differential , open diff is what really spoils the car for me , and really puts me off driving it.

[S14 DRIFT]

:really: at this thread

It has like 58 Hp, and you say it is to powerfull.

[danowat]

Much more to it than pure power, wieght, tyres, road surface, etc etc has more to do with spinning the tyres than power.
Also, I think the open diff in the UF1 is not that true to life, I think the UF1 would benifit from an LSD.
And anyone who says that an LSD in a UF1 is not realisitic, neither are 90% of the setup options already available for the UF1 realistic ;)

[spyshagg]

he is trying to say that 58hp isn't enough to wheel spin at 80km/h 3rd gear.
I agree, unless the car is really feather weight.

[danowat]

It is, if the open diff is modelled how it is in LFS, the car picks up its outside wheel and spins.

[Gunn]

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother in law's cousin's neighbour's cat has a Mini LS that chirps quite well into third.

[fujiwara]

The UF1 spins a lot mainly because of the short wheel base.

[vrooom]

Yes you can wheel spin a uf1000 at 3rd

i had a Mini cooper, with cut slick, it could spin the inside if im rough with car, pushing it hard...

[Linsen]

Afaik, anything that can be thrown around a turn fast enough to lift one wheel, will have problems bringing the power down with an open diff. The thing is, that the setups people usually drive with, are very low and very stiff compared to what you'd normally have on a Daihatsu Trevis. So a UF1 with a realistic road going setup would probabably not benefit from an LSD. So, realistic setup options would cure that problem in LFS, I think. (I don't want to start the discussion about limiting setup options again, though. We've been there before :tilt:)

[-M-]

I agree with Linsen, it could be due to the setting.

I know it isn't the topic but I like UF1... Slow cars can also be funny :nod:

[ajp71]

I wonder if our super stiff and otherwise unrealistic setups have influenced cars behaviour with an open diff? I don't think the UF1 is that bad, real Minis do churp their tires when you push them hard as well, probably to do with a short wheelbase, very light weight and tiny wheels with rock hard tires. The idea of putting an LSD in a standard Mini is completely ridiculous, there were a few racing Minis with LSDs fitted into them but due to the really short steering arms the steering was very very heavy, the idea of having a locked diff is silly in the UFR for this reason as well as the fact it would go through driveshafts.

I'd personally like to see all the standard class cars (XFG, XRG, UF1) go to open diffs only, far more realistic, there are only a handful of modern hot hatches that have got LSDs to put considerably more power down after all.

[danowat]

Yeah, because being able to tweak the UF1's suspension and gearing to the nth degree is realistic...........

[ajp71]

Yeah, because being able to tweak the UF1's suspension and gearing to the nth degree is realistic...........

I'm also heavily opposed to having so much adjustability on these so called road cars, even the race cars have far too much IMO, but I can live with it. Having an infinitely stiff topless standard Mini with an LSD is just too far towards arcade nonsense for me.

As I've said before without chassis flex and such freedom of suspension options the road cars are really like Group N racing cars
with road tires and (still) an unrealistically large number of setup options and fidelity of those options. I'd like it if the road cars were all stripped out with rollcages, but kept the road tires, lost a lot of their setup options, the locked diffs were completely removed and only some of the cars retained an LSD where it was realistic.

[shiny_red_cobra]

I just wish the UF1 had some competition, and I'm not talking about an XFG with added weight and limited intake; because right now it is in a class by itself.

[Shotglass]

there were a few racing Minis with LSDs fitted into them but due to the really short steering arms the steering was very very heavy

you keep saying that over and over but it still doesnt make any sense and saying it more often wont help either

[Stigpt]

You guys seem to forget (or are too young to remember) the DEBUT of the original mini in england.

They brought 3 mini's to a racetrack so the journalists could go around the track with them, to see how they would go in the road.
The journalists were thinking the car would handle (and I'm quoting) "Like a shopping cart with wheels".
instead, the car felt so much FUN they wore all three car's tires down to slicks in one afternoon. At that time they had never seen a car so spinable.

I've driven a real original mini. It is alot faster than you'd think, mainly cause it weights less than your shirt. It is very VERY chuckable into corners, and begins to slide almost immediatly. But since it has so little weight(mass) it doesnt really have that much of inertia, so a little bit of counter-steer and it comes back instantly.

Awesome little car, and in LFS the handling is spot-on. Just put some softer suspension and youll get it.
(the original had incredibly hard suspension - didnt have springs, but some sort of rubber-ish weirdness. You ran over a coin, and it would break your back).
To get the feel of the original mini, just put the Springs to around 95% to hard, the dampers at maximum hardness, and anti-roll bars to zero.
Paralell driving to 100%, zero toein, zero caster, and make 1st gear shorter.
Then you'll have your mini.

[wark]

The journalists were thinking the car would handle (and I'm quoting) "Like a shopping cart with wheels".

Like a shopping cart... but with wheels! I wonder how much faster you could shop with one of those! :drugs:

[ajp71]

you keep saying that over and over but it still doesnt make any sense and saying it more often wont help either

I can't find the original article and admitably I'm not totally sure as to why this effect has been seen in Minis with LSDs.


To get the feel of the original mini, just put the Springs to around 95% to hard, the dampers at maximum hardness, and anti-roll bars to zero.

They're awesome little cars, though they actually have much softer suspension and less damping than you seem to think (or you were in for a really boneshaking ride :)). Best bit about Minis though is they feel fast at any speed.

[de Souza]

...

thanks! that's what I needed :thumb:


@wark: lol

@shiny_red_cobra: me too, but what would fit in this competition?

[shiny_red_cobra]

My friend had a 1991 Toyota Tercel which was so slow that it seemd to be on par with the UF1.

Approximate specs:
1.5 L engine, 82 hp @ 5200 rpm, 89 lb*ft @ 4400 rpm, max speed 160 km/h, 4 gears MT or 3 gears AT.

[Exile R]

lol cant tercels get some VERY fast engine swapped without alotof work though >.<

[shiny_red_cobra]

Not really, Tercels have very small engine bays. You can't even fit a turbo in there with the original engine!

[Woz]

My Mini (No gone :() was a 77 Clubman with a 1.1L lump. As has been said, an unmodified Mini has far more "go" in it than many would ever expect.

I was at lights once with a WRX beside me full of Boy racers. The road the other side of the lights narrowed to single lane. The last thing he expected was a Mini to race him off the lights. When they went green I went for it. By the time he realised what was going on, had managed to spool up to get any power it was single lane. I heard the engine thrashing and the turbo chatter as he tried to get past but it was too late. He had a car full of mates laughing because a Mini had dumped over him :)

Also because there is zero electonics and assists between you and the engine the car responds far quicker and more directly to ALL inputs than any other car I have driven.

Quickly come off the loud pedal in most cars and the car will start a gradual slowdown without too much control over the weight transfer. Do the same in a Mini and you slam the weight forward.

Even my BWM Cooper didn't give the same control over weight transfer as my Clubman.

[wark]

Not really, Tercels have very small engine bays. You can't even fit a turbo in there with the original engine!

Fast engine... :scratchch

he must have meant an engine with a high redline. Bike engine?

[de Souza]

My friend had a 1991 Toyota Tercel which was so slow that it seemd to be on par with the UF1.

one of the ugliest cars I've ever seen :tilt:

[LineR32]

The Classic Minis use a Rubber Cone spring and a damper, but there is also the Hydrolastic suspension which is a simpler variation of the Citroen DS's hydropneumatic suspension.