Race 2 & 3 Amalgamation

[Becky Rose]

Looking at the server usage I think we're spreading the CTRA race licence holders too thin on the higher tin top licence tier. Or in simpler words: Race 2 & 3 are not that busy.

To remedy this i've done a number of things:

Originally I opened up the server to bronze licence holders with the XFG/XRG - this hans't worked.

Today I reduced the amount of points you get when you are over-licenced on a low server.

Coming soon the introduction of the weekly cup system will hopefully encourage a little more use on the servers - but it needs a better base upon which to grow or it will fall over.

So I want to run by the community the possibility of amalgamating these two servers. This would be done by time sharing the role of the server by selecting the current cars on a track change.

This would require a little gentle reshuffling of licence levels, so I propose the following:

Car combination 1
Silver: XFG+XRG
Gold: XRT+RB4+FXO

Car Combination 2
Silver: GT2
Platinum: GTR

My hope is that by doing this both servers are given a bigger community of competent racers with which to race. Of course once better established and with a larger licenced LFS user base i'd be happy to split them apart again.

[obsolum]

So this would mean that Bronze racers can no longer race on Race2? :( Ya know, a few days ago when Race1 was down I found that Race2 was actually quite well populated and offered good multi-class racing. Most of the time now when I join I'm pretty much the only guy in the STD class. Which isn't bad 'cause I always "win" :D But yeah, it's no fun racing that way.

I think that once the higher licensed racers earn less (no?) points on Race1 more of them will move to Race2. Let's hope so...

[Zachary Zoomy]

great news! I wasn't getting any points when in 3rd and a guy in 2nd and silver lisence was getting 10+ points on a full grid

[obsolum]

great news! I wasn't getting any points when in 3rd and a guy in 2nd and silver lisence was getting 10+ points on a full grid
:really: I'm thinking that you didn't get any points then because your fastest lap wasn't within the 108% margin? 'Cause the points system isn't that tough as far as I've experienced :shrug:

[StableX]

I do think that if the higher license holders cant get points on the lower servers this will work.

If I use me as an example:

SIlver License holder: I have not raced the regular servers much due to enjoying the bump n jump and Single seater servers (since CTRA came back, I have not raced on any other servers!). If I know I wont get points on server 1 due to being a silver license holder, I wont race on it unless friends with a lower license want to race specifically.

I really want to be able to race the GTR classes eventually, and thus, getting the gold license is key, so the no points for a silver+ license holder will make ne go to server 2 more.

Single Seater: Again, as said above, if you get no points on the SS server 1 due to holding a national license, then this will certainly push drivers to the new server.

With three different license categories, we all have to choose which area is important to progress in.

[SpikeyMarcoD]

a·mal·ga·mate /əˈmælgəˌmeɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-mal-guh-meyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -mat·ed, -mat·ing.

–verb (used with object)
1. to mix or merge so as to make a combination; blend; unite; combine: to amalgamate two companies.
2. Metallurgy. to mix or alloy (a metal) with mercury.

–verb (used without object) 3. to combine, unite, merge, or coalesce: The three schools decided to amalgamate.
4. to blend with another metal, as mercury.

OK now i now what you mean :)

[Becky Rose]

-3pts for anal retenteteveness (spelt incorrectly very much on purpose) :).

[Linsen]

I'm getting the feeling that there are just not enough active CTRAers to populate all those servers, no matter how they're arranged. Sure you can try to optimize their use, but you stated in that other thread, Becky, that 5,012 different drivers have joined a ctra-server since x went live. Wouldn't that point to the fact that we're kidding ourselves when looking at those 13,500 licenced racers on the ctra-page? Seems around 8,000 of those are not active :shrug:.

[Becky Rose]

It's historical data. We dont wipe licences because people havn't logged on after a period of time. Many will come back, some have put down LFS, some spend time on other servers too.

Before the system went down we had two populated 1st tier servers and one second tier, we now have 3 populated 1st tier servers and some sparcely populated second tier servers.

Frustratingly we have drivers who cant get on because the 1st tier server is full and go elsewhere for the night, and under the 2nd tier takes off they wont sit and wait on an empty server - fair enough really - but it can be hard to get a new server to take off, ask any operator or read one of the many "why is it always the same old combo" threads.

It was always ambitious to try and populate the 3 server tiers when introducing the two new licence tiers, but we tried - it didnt work, so we'll adapt.

[Linsen]

I'm not at all questioning the adaptation, I think it's great that you guys are trying as hard as possible to get all those servers populated. I was mainly expressing my concerns, really. You built it -- let's just hope that they will come :thumb:.


(note to myself: need to race more)

[StableX]

some spend time on other servers too.



are they mad?

[dawesdust_12]

I actually (personally) spend less time driving on CTRA servers, than any other server, simply because I get frustrated at other drivers being unpredictable.

[SparkyDave]

I think its a great idea merging the 2 servers, however I think some of the higher licencesd drivers are going on race 1 because either Race2 &3 are not populated enough (I would rather race in a full server for no points than race with a handfull of players for a few points), or because they cannot see the server.
I found last night that CTRA 2 had dissapeared from my ingame list, (hidden in config?) after reseting all filters It was still not visible, only 1 & 3 +bj +ss ( I dont think it was trackchange) after using join specific server option, I joined it np, and there were 10 people there finishing a 14 lap race! :)

I had read about people who couldn't see the server and thought it must be them using filters or somthing.... until it happened to me :) might be worth taking a look at the server config file.

SD.

[Becky Rose]

The amalgamation has ocurred, the server time shares between road cars and GT, and there has been a change to the road cars...

The UF1 returns alongside TBO as a trial.

You need a silver licence to race UF1 and GT2, gold for TBO and platinum for GTR.

[FOGlegsy]

Nice one! the UF is back!

[LordBlaster]

The amalgamation has ocurred, the server time shares between road cars and GT, and there has been a change to the road cars..

how do they change? time, races? randomly?

btw: :thumb: for the UF1!

[Becky Rose]

how do they change? time, races? randomly?

btw: :thumb: for the UF1!
It's random and occurs on track change.

It seems that the UF1's get lapped once around the 2/3 distance mark. So far i've seen that on the whole blue flagging has worked very well indeed with silver licenced drivers, i'm very pleased at how sporting everybody seemed to be.

As the server goes to other tracks though it may be necessary to make some combo's XFG+XRG instead of UF1 for safety reasons, as the UF1 is quite slow and so the TBO's go past at a much higher speed.

[LordBlaster]

i don´t think a randomly change from GTR to TBO is good idea...

what i´ve seen so far (just 2 tracks) there was no change, lets see what happens next time.

anway, the UF1 thing worked great and i´m glad i can drive it again :thumb:

[Jouman]

All of these changes sound very good. Just wondering if the low turnout on servers 2&3 are caused by the joining problem. When joining i get a message that can't get the track info. Atleast i have had that all the time, and i'm a pretty keen driver so the server is atleast missing me :D.

So it would be good to correct this problem first, before you change the system too much.

Starting to miss the XRT :tilt:

[Becky Rose]

That sounds like an LFS dedi server crash, it's been restarted so are you still having difficulties?

[Jouman]

Yeah still, allways had the same problem.
Can't see the race 2 server in the ingame server list at all. Trying to connect through the lfsworld and it says that cant get the track info. So is it in my end or in yours? Because every other server works just fine.

[Becky Rose]

Lots of people can connect to it just fine so I dont really know what the problem is, i'll restart it tomorrow morning when there is only a few people on CTRA.

[Jouman]

Ok sounds like a plan. I think others have had this problem also http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=29102 like mentioned in this thread. I think i have now tried to connect to it about a week, at first thought you were just testing with few drivers so didn't bother to say anything about it. So would have been good to say something earlier on :scratchch.

[StableX]

Yeah still, allways had the same problem.
Can't see the race 2 server in the ingame server list at all. Trying to connect through the lfsworld and it says that cant get the track info. So is it in my end or in yours? Because every other server works just fine.

connect to it from the raceauthority website?

[StableX]

The amalgamation has ocurred, the server time shares between road cars and GT, and there has been a change to the road cars...

The UF1 returns alongside TBO as a trial.

You need a silver licence to race UF1 and GT2, gold for TBO and platinum for GTR.

Quick Question on the points and how that will work.

Obviously the UF1 is slow in comparison to the TBO so wont manage the same amount of laps. Does it work so that those in the lower classes still get points even if a lap down on the faster cars?

[Jouman]

connect to it from the raceauthority website?

Yeah still the same result. Don't think it matters where you try to connect from if it can't get the track info from the lfs server or what not. But worth a try, thanks anyway.

[Linsen]

Quick Question on the points and how that will work.

Obviously the UF1 is slow in comparison to the TBO so wont manage the same amount of laps. Does it work so that those in the lower classes still get points even if a lap down on the faster cars?
It did work this way all along and I'm sure it works like that with the UF1 as well. Becky more or less confirmed in another thread that it doesn't matter on any server if you finish a lap down. You still get points if you're within 108% and in the top 6-8 or so.

[Becky Rose]

X-System supports true multi-class racing so it is not an issue.

[StableX]

Just raced on one of the South town circuits. Brilliant!!!! simply brilliant! loved racing the UF1 again, and with the aware gold and plat license holders in the faster cars, it worked great.

thanks. I think this is a great additional change! besides the fact I got 22 points :D

[SparkyDave]

I had a bash on the all new Race 2 server tonight and had a blast :)

is the statement in the pic below true? or does the manager randomly choose the cars similar to B&J ?

I do miss the TBO's :D

SD.

[Becky Rose]

kinda true, it's

UF1 + TBO
or
GT2 + GTR

[SparkyDave]

Yes but does it alternate between those 2 at track change or is it random?
Meaning is there a possibility it could stay GT2+GTR for 2 or 3 track changes in a row?

SD.

[Becky Rose]

Its random on track change :).

[Linsen]

Quick question regarding big GTRs and GT2 class: What are intake restrictions and added weight for FXR, FZR and XRR?

[Becky Rose]

It tells you when you get in the car. Note that it is subject to review at a later date.

[teedot]

Quick question regarding big GTRs and GT2 class: What are intake restrictions and added weight for FXR, FZR and XRR?

If i remember correctly...

FXR - 36% Intake Restriction, 50KG Extra Weight (be sure to balance it correctly or you'll throw the cars handling off.. should be 58F 42R)

FZR - 28% Intake Restriction, No Weight added.

XRR - 36% Intake Restriction... +100kg

Hope that helps. (EDITED FOR ERROR ON XRR)

[Linsen]

If i remember correctly...

FXR - 36% Intake Restriction, 50KG Extra Weight (be sure to balance it correctly or you'll throw the cars handling off.. should be 58F 42R)

FZR - 28% Intake Restriction, No Weight added.

XRR - 36% Intake Restriction... i dont think any added weight is needed... i may be wrong.

Hope that helps.
Thx :).

[Jouman]

So has anything been tried yet, just to ask so i know to start looking the problem in my end.

[XenoWolf]

Wow, usually I try to avoid complaining.. but as a Silver licence holder this is pretty lame. The only reason I bothered getting my licence to begin with is so I could take part in some competitive TBO racing, which most other servers avoid for some reason. Now I have to race STD (again!?) or GT2 (which makes no sense letting me drive full-blown race cars before their production counterparts) to earn my Gold licence? I just tried racing on Race 1, which was completely full, and Race 2 where I was the only Silver licenced driver (and thus was racing myself in a UF1... which quickly got old). I'm not happy about the amalgamation, but I'm pretty pissed about randomly being shut-out of the TBO class, which again is the reason I took part in the STCC/CTRA project to begin with. Oh well, take my opinion for what it's worth... I understand it's your servers and your project, but I just wanted to tell my side of the story.

[Degats]

Wow, usually I try to avoid complaining.. but as a Silver licence holder this is pretty lame. The only reason I bothered getting my licence to begin with is so I could take part in some competitive TBO racing, which most other servers avoid for some reason. Now I have to race STD (again!?) or GT2 (which makes no sense letting me drive full-blown race cars before their production counterparts) to earn my Gold licence? I just tried racing on Race 1, which was completely full, and Race 2 where I was the only Silver licenced driver (and thus was racing myself in a UF1... which quickly got old). I'm not happy about the amalgamation, but I'm pretty pissed about randomly being shut-out of the TBO class, which again is the reason I took part in the STCC/CTRA project to begin with. Oh well, take my opinion for what it's worth... I understand it's your servers and your project, but I just wanted to tell my side of the story.

Firstly, sorry for bumping the topic, but I haven't been on the LFS sites for a while due to exams etc.

Anywho, I very much agree with the TBO issue. As a bronze licence holder, I was very much looking forward to being able to race TBO cars on getting a silver licence.

I'm not sure what the points gap is between silver and gold, but IIRC it is quite large. This means that, initially due to the new points system it's going to take longer to get there, (I'm not knocking the new system, I do agree it should be harder to earn points than before) and now that I won't be able to drive the class I'm much more at home racing with on getting silver, it's going to take much much longer. Before, I wasn't really too bothered about not being able to earn gold for a while as I would have been able to race my favourite class on silver. I also find it a strange decision to allow people to race GT cars before the road versions.

I'm quite surprised there wasn't a public vote on denying silver racers access to TBO, as the stats DO have a vote and they don't affect the racing in any way.

I was going to suggest before reading about the denial of driving TBO for silver racers that blocking gold+ (maybe even silver+??) drivers from Race1 would force a proportion of drivers to the other servers - where they could have still raced STD class if they prefer - and also allow the people who enjoy racing TBOs, who were put off due to a lack of racers, to do so on a less empty server. (the latter being an issue I've heard from several people.)

I do like the return of the UF1, but not that its the only choice on the higher servers for silver drivers for what's probably going to average half the time.

[Becky Rose]

It might seem a little illogical in some ways, but there are a few constraints and making the road car tier work in any kind of logical way is a bit difficult.

Firslty, the first tier is an S1 server. We want to support S1 ever since Scawen asked for hosts to do so, we're fulfilling this request and I think it is important that we continue to do so else S1 racers would have nowhere to go.

The UF1 only works on S2, so we've had to put that on the second tier. Because of our other tiers we can no longer run two first tier servers just for the road cars as there aren't enough racers available.

The Race 2 server is designed for silver racers, so logically speaking the UF1 has to be silver. When the server is in GT mode we therefore have to make the GT2's silver.

Because of the amalgamation there is then nothing for gold licenced drivers, so we've raised TBO to be for gold licenced drivers, and left the GTR's as platinum for the very top racers to use.

It might seem illogical that you can drive a GT2 before a road car, but it's not all about speed, mostly its about the above but think of it this way. GT2's are faster, but our TBO racing - whilst available at 'club' level elsewhere - on our servers is a premier series.

Our STCC league will still be TBO based next season, and that's a point, I am now announcing for the first time I think publicly that the STCC will continue. I am currently working on new software for it and expect to be about a month making all the new tools and website, all this is leading somewhere but it's too early for me to say exactly where at the moment.

[niall09]

I'm not sure what the points gap is between silver and gold, but IIRC it is quite large. This means that, initially due to the new points system it's going to take longer to get there, (I'm not knocking the new system, I do agree it should be harder to earn points than before) and now that I won't be able to drive the class I'm much more at home racing with on getting silver, it's going to take much much longer. Before, I wasn't really too bothered about not being able to earn gold for a while as I would have been able to race my favourite class on silver. I also find it a strange decision to allow people to race GT cars before the road versions.


Yes, the points gap between the two is big enough, but its much easier to get loads of points on race2. if you win your class and get a good laptime (in silver) you would be getting 50 points and up. if you are consistent, you will score well :thumb:

[Degats]

Thanks for the reply, Becky :)

I fully agree that the CTRA has to have an S1 server as it seems to be pretty much the only thing keeping the S1 online community alive.

I remember before CTRA closed for the X upgrade there was a dedicated S2 UF1 server, but it was rarely busy - although very fun while it was - so it doesn't really make much sense keeping it.

I've just been playing around with a few possible combinations to make the server have 3 combinations instead of 2. Best I came up with was UF1+STD, TBO+LF, GT2+GTR which isn't great so I can see the difficulty with getting a good combo. Still disappointed about TBO being gold+ tho :(

Good to hear the STCC will continue especially with the TBO class. Looking forward to the round 8 broadcast :)

[niall09]

I remember before CTRA closed for the X upgrade there was a dedicated S2 UF1 server, but it was rarely busy - although very fun while it was - so it doesn't really make much sense keeping it.


I remember the uf1 server as being one of the busiest servers :shrug:

[Dark Elite]

So do I, actually - I think the newer S2 licencees wanting to get away from the XFG and XRG outweighed the S1 licencees who still had to use them. Not to mention that the UF1 server had a higher capacity, and was more fun ;)

It was almost always more full than the S1 server, as I remember it.

As for the main issue, it does seem rather odd to let us loose on the GT2-class cars before the turbo roadcars, but I do see your point entirely, Becky. It's pretty clear that there's really not another viable option, and as you say, TBO always was the highest level available, and the only thing that should change that is the full-frontal GTR cars. Anyway, TBO-racing is more of a fine art than GT2 racing ;)

Sam

[niall09]

GT2 racing is the best! so close

I feel like i have been spamming this all day long, am i right in saying that? :D

[LordBlaster]

GT2 racing is the best! so close

I feel like i have been spamming this all day long, am i right in saying that? :D

indeed, you did :D

[StableX]

the amalgamation has been excellent. I even managed to do an ollie over the famous Lord after the race going backwards.

I did a backward wheelie and lifted over the bonnet :D

[LordBlaster]

famous? :shy:

but hell yeah that was great! i think ctra needs new category: trick-shot :thumb:

you would lead it for sure!

[Gimpster]

I have to say I have been having alot of fun on the new improved Race 2 server. The GT2 class is a blast with the restricted GTRs. Alot of fun.

[blackcarmafia]

What about opening UF1 server?

and does laptime inbump and jump mean anything for getting points?

[Becky Rose]

uf1 is avaialble to silver licenced drivers on server 2. B&J points are not dependent upon lap time at all.

[Dark Elite]

And if you guys got the UF1 from the start, what is Silver good for when we're not allowed GT2 monsters? ;)

Sam

[StableX]

I love racing the GT2 cars and the amalgamation of the S2 and S3 servers is just brilliant. It's really made a great place to play. Races in general are clean and great fun and a lot can be learnt from the higher licensed drivers!

However, I would love to see maybe one rally combination somewhere. I used to always jump on the server 1 when that Rally came on, even when I had silver and got little to no points :)

[niall09]

And if you guys got the UF1 from the start, what is Silver good for when we're not allowed GT2 monsters? ;)

Sam

you can drive the gt2 cars if your silver.

[SpikeyMarcoD]

Yes but when server selects TBO us silver guys are in an UF

[Dark Elite]

My point exactly. That's why I said when we're not allowed the GT2 cars :)

I'm quite happy with the way it is now, to be honest. The UF1 is a good wind-down from GT2 racing.

Sam

[XenoWolf]

Becky, thanks for the explaination. I'm not a huge fan of the GTRs or the UF1 (as opposed to most LFSers) so I'm still disappointed that I have to drive them (or wait through a million STD races) to earn Gold, but that's life! Looking forward to the next STCC season, I'm really hoping to have my licence by then so I can try to qualify.