LFS Full download available only to licensed users

[Vendetta]

I mean seriously, if only licensed users could download the full game from the website, and the demo contained ONLY the files necessary for running the 3 cars and blackwood, this would cut down on people cracking S2 ALOT! Hasnt someone thought of this before? I mean it only means more money for the devs if people would have to buy the game to play the cars, not cracking it.

[_rod_]

dude even though its quite obvious i guess no1 ever though about it!!!

very good thinking!!!! great idea.

[xapexcivicx]

ILU venny poo.


Great idea bro. Anybody else all for this?

edit- might slaughter those 56krs, but who needs them?

[dave_w11]

I think it would quickly end up available through p2p networks etc anyway. It would also probably mean that all downloads have to be hosted by the devs and not through the many mirrors that there are. It might end up costing them more in increased bandwidth costs than they gain by extra purchases. I would guess that most people capable of finding a crack would also be able to aquire the main download via p2p networks etc.

[Anarchi-H]

As dave has said, while the idea is good in intentions, the only thing it would do is hamper the clueless and drive the distribution of the LFS files underground.
You can find plenty of examples where people have tried this, only to have the full version distributed by other means; Trillian is a good example, as is Windowblinds.

[Da Hoe]

1. someone who downloaded it could upload it, no?
2. i wouldnt know of any crack working in multiplayer

[Lengerer]

If only I new about this hacked copy before I bought it :D .. nah, its good to support small devs like this one... EA on the other hand :thumb:

[inCogNito]

if you really think there is a way to stop piracy: wake up!

Especially not with such a naive idea!

LFS has already the best copy protection available. It's an online game, and you can only play it online if you paid for it. There is no crack for that!

[RacingSimFan]

LFS has already the best copy protection available. It's an online game, and you can only play it online if you paid for it. There is no crack for that! Yessir! I've never once raced the AI in LFS and I doubt I ever will. Multiplayer is why I bought it and is its biggest selling point. As long as you need a registered username to race online the best part of LFS is crack-proof.

[Anarchi-H]

Hate to piss on the 'crack proof' bonfire, but it is far from it since LFS still operates without the master server by specifying an IP/port. In addition, if someone was determined to be an arse, an lfs master server emulator wouldn't be overly difficult to create for someone that can emulate / bypass the unlocking sequence.

Far from crack proof, but certainly the most robust deterrant to date.

(P.S, for those of you that think a master server emulator is far fetched, try googling for EQEmu)

[CrazyICE]

if you really think there is a way to stop piracy: wake up!

Especially not with such a naive idea!

LFS has already the best copy protection available. It's an online game, and you can only play it online if you paid for it. There is no crack for that!
but if someone have account data it's possible to play i think!
there was a website, which asked for user data, and some have posted their accounts, i'm sure!
==>

but cracking and hacking and piracy is common, this will never stop...
microsoft wouldn't be so big if no cracks exists!

[avih]

Since AFAIK, there's no crack that allows to play online, as others said before, i think such crack will only drive ppl to pay for the license. Seeing how good the content is (cars, tracks), and how fun online racing is (from the demo), the only possible conclusion is buy a license and support and enjoy it.

I don't know exactly how's the authentication of client/server/master-server works, but i think it is/should/can be pretty resistable to "master server emulation" attacks. that's the beauty of an online system. unless you've cracked into the master database, you can't get login data. without login data you can't get further data that allows you to race, etc.

I'd say that the current system of distribution is good enough. focus on other improvements for now ;)

[Gabkicks]

i know a few people who tried the crack and bought the game in a few days. driving around in a really fast car isnt as much fun without someone trying to go faster than you.:tilt:

[inCogNito]

but if someone have account data it's possible to play i think!
there was a website, which asked for user data, and some have posted their accounts, i'm sure!
==>

but cracking and hacking and piracy is common, this will never stop...
microsoft wouldn't be so big if no cracks exists!

well, if i have your bank account data, i can steal your money.
Of course there is no proof against user stupidity oder cyber crimes.
If someone steals your acc, he can play. But then he stole it from you and you can't play anymore. You would have to buy a new account, so it's actually good for the devs ;)


Hate to piss on the 'crack proof' bonfire, but it is far from it since LFS still operates without the master server by specifying an IP/port. In addition, if someone was determined to be an arse, an lfs master server emulator wouldn't be overly difficult to create for someone that can emulate / bypass the unlocking sequence.

Far from crack proof, but certainly the most robust deterrant to date.

(P.S, for those of you that think a master server emulator is far fetched, try googling for EQEmu)

well, LFS isn't everquest. And the devs cans still take legal actions against the coders. Look how blizzard handles open bnet and wow servers.
And to get such a thing work, you need to operate the server somewhere. Unless you do this from an old oilrig in the oceans without laws, you have to take the risk to get sued.
So you could only use an open MS for a small audience for private races. But you can already do this via VPN.
If people are so eger to save 36€ and don't want stats, full public servers and league races, let them. Those guys won't pay anyway.

Not to mention the frequent patches, scawen can change the behaviour with each patch, so the crackers will always have to play with an old version.


Anyway, a download version only for S1/S2 licensed users won't help anything, i think you agree here! ;)

[XCNuse]

sad to say.... theres nothing more anyone can do :( S2 alpha has been released, and so have the cracks.. everyone that cracked S2 alpha just can keep that and always havce S2 :(
good idea though

[AndroidXP]

And what exactly do they have? Good, they get the (soon to be outdated?) S2 content, which is a shame, but the fun of this game comes from playing online, not from battling the sucky AI which is still on S1 levels.

They crack S2, they get the content and can play offline. What they don't get, and this should be the thing WE are paying for mainly, is the hours upon hours of fun online. How long do you play a game which isn't fun? Not long, that's for sure.

[Batterypark]

This would be somewhat complex and would add server load, but if the server "watermarked" one of the files in the ZIP to include information about who downloaded it, the devs could track down who originally downloaded the version that ended up in the P2P networks and suspend his/her account.

[inCogNito]

This would be somewhat complex and would add server load, but if the server "watermarked" one of the files in the ZIP to include information about who downloaded it, the devs could track down who originally downloaded the version that ended up in the P2P networks and suspend his/her account.

hacking groups actually pay for their games. or pay insider to get a copy before the release date. So they wouldn't care if an account gets suspended. And what an time and effort to watermark every version for nothing, you would need an extra copy for every user! It's impossible. And in the end it would be leaked anyways.


I don't want to encourage piracy, but imho in the end it's a good thing for the devs. People may play full S2 in SP and actually like it. But they get bored racing against the AI and have to buy a full version. Those guys prolly would have never touched LFS in the first place.
And since the demo doesn't represent full S2 very well, you could see this a big demo.
I guess many of you will disagree here, but that's my experience from other online based games. People have to buy an original to get the whole experience. And they will do it, if they really like the game.

[P5YcHoM4N]

For a system like that to work, the game would need some sort of secret code in it, that is different for each member. So if the files was leaked onto the interweb, they could find out who by.

A lot like the ragdoll kugfu beta's. Each copy had a secret code in it, uniquie to that tester. So if anyone leaked it, he could find out who. Only probably is that with the ammount of users, it'd need a hell of a lot of dodars. Unless there is one file that is removed (only small so not to kell bandwidth). Which after downloading the main file, you download this little addon pack, which has your secret code in.

Agreed not h4x proof, but would help curve the trend. As you can get "LFSS2+FULLWORKINGCRACK!!" on many file sharing networks. Just at the same time, there is a lot of fake cracks floating around the interweb, that when you open it and click, it takes you to the LFS Shop:D I had a guy on mIRC bitch at me because none of the cracks worked that he downloaded...

Like I was going to give him my unlock details or something :pillepall

[boosterfire]

Well... this is a good idea, but is it really usefull? I have no knowledge of hacking and kracking in LFS ever. The way the game is unlocked, I don't see how it could be possible. If someone buys a voucher, the server has to give the unlock key and allow it to be used to unlock a version... :really:

Maybe i'm know, tho... anyone knows about kracking in LFS? :faint2: I mean... I don't think it ever happened. :schwitz:

[DodgeRacer]

Unfortunatly it happens booster, and even if the download was limited I dont feel it would stop them, people will just put full version up on all those file sharing things :(

[Vendetta]

If this happened then they would have to find a copy from P2P, then crack it :D Im sure if we put our heads together, we can come up with an almost uncrackible game (no game is uncrackable :D)

[Kegetys]

In my opinion the time it would take to improve the unlocking system would be much better spent on improving the game, as that would give more 'value' to the product and encourage more people to buy it. There's nothing you can do about people unlocking it illegally as long as there is some way to play the game offline. And there's always the danger that too annoying copy protection mechanisms discourage people from buying the game (Starforce has done this to me for example), the current unlock system already causes some hesitation as its not a "hard copy" that you're paying for.

The best way to fight piracy is to make the product worth buying for. It wont make everyone buy it, but even a protection that would be impossible to crack wouldn't make everyone buy it, people would simply play something else.

[Lible]

It`s a good idea. I know, that someone would always upload it somewhere. But there wil be a maximum five or ten copies free for downloading.

[the_angry_angel]

Security through obfuscation is no security.

Sorry, but due to that fact, I just cant agree its a good idea. The only way it would be is to dynamically alter each client to make it fixed per user. Which is too hard, and most likely easily crackable.

[Stellios]

I partly agree with this, but if you know where to get the crack from then generally you will know where to get the full game too.

[ORION]

You can never stop crackers or hackers. Actually Scawen can be very happy, because playing online isnt possible without a license atm.
Cracked versions are even a benefit somehow, because more people play it, and they might tell others, who might buy LFS :)
As long as those cracks dont work online, it's not s serious problem imo.

[P5YcHoM4N]

In my opinion the time it would take to improve the unlocking system would be much better spent on improving the game, as that would give more 'value' to the product and encourage more people to buy it. There's nothing you can do about people unlocking it illegally as long as there is some way to play the game offline. And there's always the danger that too annoying copy protection mechanisms discourage people from buying the game (Starforce has done this to me for example), the current unlock system already causes some hesitation as its not a "hard copy" that you're paying for.

The best way to fight piracy is to make the product worth buying for. It wont make everyone buy it, but even a protection that would be impossible to crack wouldn't make everyone buy it, people would simply play something else.
That's the problem with anti-piracy. Most see it as a game. So when it's made harder, the crackers enjoy the challenge. But the normal legal users have to put up with shit, so in the end they either don't play, or just crack the game. TOCA RD2 is one of those games. If you have any virtual drives on your system (which I always have one or two). The game wont work. Leaving you two options. Remove virtual drives, or unhook your CD-Drive.
Far Cry was another. If you have any CD Copy/Creation software on your PC it wouldn't install, and if you installed the stuff after the game wouldn't open.

I don't think any companies see that if you over do it, you just turn people off your product. Look at the recent Sony events. Their music is being boycoted by so many people because of the rootkit they have been using.

[J.B.]

I don't understand the idea. I think the idea is to make it harder for people who haven't paid to download the game. But most games aren't even downloadable at all and they still get pirated.

Also, doesn't rFactor do exactly this?

[Woz]

That's the problem with anti-piracy. Most see it as a game. So when it's made harder, the crackers enjoy the challenge. But the normal legal users have to put up with shit, so in the end they either don't play, or just crack the game. TOCA RD2 is one of those games. If you have any virtual drives on your system (which I always have one or two). The game wont work. Leaving you two options. Remove virtual drives, or unhook your CD-Drive.
Far Cry was another. If you have any CD Copy/Creation software on your PC it wouldn't install, and if you installed the stuff after the game wouldn't open.

I don't think any companies see that if you over do it, you just turn people off your product. Look at the recent Sony events. Their music is being boycoted by so many people because of the rootkit they have been using.

Yep, Sony messed up bad. Not i comes to light it also phones home and hackers are already using the rootkit to hide game cheating software from detection.

Sony thought they were being smart but in the end it was found. All software can be hacked. Its just to what level. The current LFS security is fine.

[inCogNito]

It`s a good idea. I know, that someone would always upload it somewhere. But there wil be a maximum five or ten copies free for downloading.

i'm sorry, but that's really funny!

Have you ever heard of edonkey or bittorrent? there will be thousands of copies free for downloading.
But it doesn't matter, there is no working crack for online play (and probably will never be) and that's what LFS is about!

[P5YcHoM4N]

Yep, Sony messed up bad. Not i comes to light it also phones home and hackers are already using the rootkit to hide game cheating software from detection.

Sony thought they were being smart but in the end it was found. All software can be hacked. Its just to what level. The current LFS security is fine.
Well yeah, rootkits are hard to come by and that don't get detected. Sony have just given crackers/cheats/virus makes a new toy that's undetected, and if it is by anti-virus software, screws your system. Lose lose for the end user. Win win for someone who downloads music off the interweb as they don't get the problem.
Plus it only effects Windows users, or people who have autorun enabled. Turn it off, and open the CD in my computer, rather then run their apps, and everything is all there anyway.

Great way to stop pirates Sony :pillepall

[inCogNito]

the bad thing is, they will lose sales through this (hopefully), and in the end they blame it on the pirates :pillepall

[VorTeX3k]

Since AFAIK, there's no crack that allows to play online, as others said before, i think such crack will only drive ppl to pay for the license. Seeing how good the content is (cars, tracks), and how fun online racing is (from the demo), the only possible conclusion is buy a license and support and enjoy it.

I don't know exactly how's the authentication of client/server/master-server works, but i think it is/should/can be pretty resistable to "master server emulation" attacks. that's the beauty of an online system. unless you've cracked into the master database, you can't get login data. without login data you can't get further data that allows you to race, etc.

I'd say that the current system of distribution is good enough. focus on other improvements for now ;)you don't have to crack the database for this. just sniff all network packages, sent to the master server and received from the master server, when logging in. with this information it's not very difficult, to find out how the master server is working. so an emulator is not that problem. see WoW: there's already a big network of cracked servers connected with each other.

[avih]

you don't have to crack the database for this. just sniff all network packages, sent to the master server and received from the master server, when logging in. with this information it's not very difficult, to find out how the master server is working. so an emulator is not that problem. see WoW: there's already a big network of cracked servers connected with each other.

unless you identify yourself with each online server that you connect to, and this server validates it against the master server. although cracking the racing server too and allowing it to accept any user would allow to establish a network of cracked master and racing servers... oh well.

eventually i hope it boils down to the fact that decent users and racing fans will buy it to appreciate the work beeing done. There's only that much you can do against cracking, and there's a subtle balance, as others have said before, between usability and protection. IMHO it's working well for LFS ATM.

[P5YcHoM4N]

the bad thing is, they will lose sales through this (hopefully), and in the end they blame it on the pirates :pillepall
Oh course, if it wasn't for pirates then they wouldn't need so inane protection. It's funny, but some guy at Sony said "Well most people don't know what a rootkit is anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem" or something along those lines... some backup :really:

Back when there was no protection, more people paid cash for the game because to crackers there was no game in it. Now the protection is so painful for legit users, more get the cracked games as it get rid of all the shit.