More advanced damage ? [Archive]

Tweaker

13th August 2005, 21:44

Probably will. The devs have said that the damage in the game is just the first step. We have no idea what comes next with the damage, but they do know that we want certain things like carbody parts falling off, breaking windows, sparks, and smoke effects.

I hope to see it soon, but all of that sounds really advanced.

Theafro

14th August 2005, 11:10

The next stage has got to be faliures, like over-revving (valve gear damage - lack of power/revs) and brake fade etc, power output could drop a little as temperature increases, and the clutch might fail if you slip it too often, the gearbox could start being difficult to shift of you fluff too many times. And I can't wait to see mirror's being knocked out when you pass too close!

Mr.Ferret

14th August 2005, 11:21

first thing i want to be able to see is engine damage so we can have DNF'S make enduros more exiting imo

jegorchangai

20th May 2007, 13:40

maybe more advanced damage will come in S3?

wheel4hummer

20th May 2007, 13:44

The next stage has got to be faliures, like over-revving

We already kind of sort of have over-revving.

danowat

20th May 2007, 13:48

We already kind of sort of have over-revving.

Very true, the FXR seems worse of the bunch, just try it on a few laps downshifting it into the redline, engine doesnt last long, thats for sure :D

AndroidXP

20th May 2007, 13:53

Yaamboo

20th May 2007, 13:58

And I can't wait to see mirror's being knocked out when you pass too close!
Also somebody running over the debris of that mirror and getting a flat tyre! :)

STROBE

20th May 2007, 14:40

Jamexing

21st May 2007, 10:49

Important areas would be clutch & transmission wear, as well as the various car components being affected by impacts (engine, radiator, wings). Suspensions need to be breakable (very apparent on single seaters) and should resist less abuse (kerbhopping). That would be a very big step forward.

All very true except the part about kerb hopping. IRL, F1 cars survive an entire race distance of kerb hopping on the chicanes and no, their suspension links don't die. I do agree, however, for some kerbs (taller, sharper and nastier), it should result in snapped wishbones, especially when hit at silly speeds.

tristancliffe

21st May 2007, 10:52

Running one, unloaded, wheel over a kerb (as in real life) is very different to hitting chicane kerbs full on at full throttle as is the norm in LFS. Drive an F1 car in reality like they are driving in LFS and it will break before the completion of one lap.

Funnycat

21st May 2007, 11:16

Will the damage get more advanced eg smoke effects>

How come you have an avatar? :really:

tristancliffe

21st May 2007, 11:18

Because he was a member here before Victor removed the demo avatar privilege.

[RCG]Boosted

21st May 2007, 11:29

How come you have an avatar? :really:

Because he was a member here before Victor removed the demo avatar privilege.

lol this question gets asked so often :D
i wonder that so much ppl still dont know it :)

Bob Smith

21st May 2007, 11:45

I could be really mean and remove the avatar and he'd have no way of putting it back... muhahaha. Gotta love "power". :p

garph

21st May 2007, 11:51

All these people giving away S2 vouchers and that guy being a demo user for so long....

...but thinking about it, do you really want to give S2 to a person who has been here for at least 2 years and hasn't brought the game?! I think the money could have been saved up to buy it by now :shrug:

tristancliffe

21st May 2007, 11:52

He probably does have an S2 licence, but uses a demo account for forum use (to keep a bit of anonymity). J.B. is the same (I have no idea what his real username is, but he is S2 licenced).

deggis

21st May 2007, 12:33

I could be really mean and remove the avatar and he'd have no way of putting it back... muhahaha. Gotta love "power". :p
http://www.habitationofjustice.com/wp-content/uploads/DrEvil.jpg

:D

Spils

21st May 2007, 13:33

I think one of the first things that should be implemented is radiator damage from running into the back of people. The temperature gauge is already in the cars so presumably this is on the "to do" list at some point, I just hope it makes it into S2 rather than S3 as it will totally change online racing for the better - being careless under braking and hitting the guy in front would have consequences.

For me that would be the improvment id most like to see in LFS. Im sick to death of being scared to brake into T1 due to the fact it seems, only a few if any online racers care about destroying your race, just to gain a slight advantage..

Its become that bad on UKCT ill now make sure im slow off the start and let enough people past me off the grid so i can coast into T1 and react to everything going on around me..

Gets a big thumbs up from me:thumb:

Suspensions need to be breakable (very apparent on single seaters) and should resist less abuse (kerbhopping). That would be a very big step forward.

The number 2 on my most wanted list of improvments..

How some people cut the corners online is very unsportmanly, and looks very silly when your see cars take off, and loose no speed at all and recive no kinda penalty, actualy you gain speed by doing this, quite a lot at some section of the track were the idea is to slow down, its the whole point in high curbs afaik.

For me these two small improvments alone will drasticly change the way online racing is played, for the better.

Hyperactive

21st May 2007, 14:25

Very true, the FXR seems worse of the bunch, just try it on a few laps downshifting it into the redline, engine doesnt last long, thats for sure :D

Not trying to be a smart-ass but if I need to drop to 1st gear from full speed to get engine damage... the engine damage is non-existent...

Mechanical issues are one important part of racing. I wish it was like that in LFS as well. Flatshifting is something I'd like to get rid of. Undertray damage and damage to aerodynamic parts is very very important as well. Suspension damage is quite nice although it would be much better if it was possible to totally break the arms, maybe even resulting a loose wheel. Damage to gearbox and drivetrain are important as well.

Treating the car well should come with a prize. Treating the car badly should cause you a DNF.

The mechanical damage stuff inside the car might be wise to do first as it has nothing to do with the flaky collision model. Having fully refined suspension and aero damages is kinda useless if a small lag spike makes your UF1 look more like a ball than a car. In the same way as having perfect engine/drivetrain damage if you can just tick all different aids on and continue to be fast and consistant without any fear for engine/drivetrain damage...

Things can only improve. And should ;)

danowat

21st May 2007, 14:46

Not trying to be a smart-ass but if I need to drop to 1st gear from full speed to get engine damage... the engine damage is non-existent...

You don't need to do that to damage the engine in the FXR, even a small amount of over-revving on downshift will damage the engine.

But yeah, it should be improved in the future, that goes without saying obviously

Hallen

21st May 2007, 15:07

Although I agree with most of what has been said here concerning suspension damage, I don't think that can be accomplished until the contact patch issue gets resolved.

Now, this is just from observation, not from anything Scawen has mentioned, but it seems the tire/contact patch model only handles one pressure point or contact point. If your tire is hitting a curb, it will be touching the pavement and the curb at the same time in two different places. Search for "exploding curbs" in the bugs forum.

The current model doesn't handle this situation so you get some very strange forces through the system. Just park a car on one of the cracks in the little kink curb on KY2 that is just before the turn onto the oval section. Your car will start hopping and vibrating. This is what everybody calls "explosive curbs". If you drive over them slowly, you will get suspension damage. This is because large forces are generated because of the double contact points on the tire.

Until that is fixed, more advanced suspension damage will just cause unwarranted problems.

I do agree that flying over the monster high curbs on the FE tracks (and others) at full throttle should cause massive damage to the car. I just don't think this can happen until the above is fixed.

Hyperactive

21st May 2007, 15:33

Now, this is just from observation, not from anything Scawen has mentioned, but it seems the tire/contact patch model only handles one pressure point or contact point. If your tire is hitting a curb, it will be touching the pavement and the curb at the same time in two different places. Search for "exploding curbs" in the bugs forum.

At least the Kyoto exploding curbs are nothing more than "errors" in the 3d model. There is a tiny crack between two surfaces that causes this. Just an observation too though. Many kerbs at Kyoto have this problem :)

EDIT: I just checked the Kyoto configs and the problem seems to be that there is a small "step" between the kerb and greens stuff. LFS' tire model doesn't seem to be able to handle this.

AndroidXP

21st May 2007, 16:14

I see your point Hallen, but while I know this problem does exist, I don't think that its priority is really all that high. This issue is far from happening regularly (KY3 being probably the track where it happens most often), and having proper suspension damage to actually discourage the regular use of these shortcuts would be a quicker fix than coding multiple contact points. I think the ridiculous blasting over FE kerbs or even the KY chicane bumps without damage is far worse than this glitch.

MAGGOT

21st May 2007, 16:46

Also somebody running over the debris of that mirror and getting a flat tyre!

And 7 years of bad luck for breaking the mirror.

N I K I

21st May 2007, 17:12

tristancliffe

21st May 2007, 17:23

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhhzZRdncpQ
is that what are you looking for? Parts fall off, car burns, and dead engine? Go play rFactor :D, btw. i'd like to see this things in LFS too... just wait and they will come with time :thumb:

You know there is something wrong with a race sim when the only realistic (ish) movement is the parts OFF the car, and not the cars themselves...

Irish Man

21st May 2007, 17:27

I agree

geeman1

21st May 2007, 17:56

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhhzZRdncpQ
is that what are you looking for? Parts fall off, car burns, and dead engine? Go play rFactor :D, btw. i'd like to see this things in LFS too... just wait and they will come with time :thumb:That's just the wrong way to do it. A prime example of canned effects. The parts come off when a certain force hits the part. It may look alright sometimes, but most of the time it looks just stupid. The parts should break in to smaller bits instead of coming fully off. And cars don't break enough when they do barrel rolls..

N I K I

21st May 2007, 18:43

hehe, yea. They should be in smaller peaces when they hit the ground :shrug:
Can someone try to find real example :tilt:

deggis

21st May 2007, 18:58

Bumper drops off when you crash a wall at 200 km/h = uber damage model

That's what most of players (outside of simmers too) seems to think... Damage model is the most underrated part of sims (not the easiest area though). No game currently has believable engine or transmission damage which should be more important than the irrelevevant visual stuff which should be left for Flatout and for those so called console "sims". And not even many sims have that kind of "one crash and game over" element besides RBR.

N I K I

21st May 2007, 20:37

Ok, check damage in LFS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un_W5AJdpOw
I belive Boris Ninic should have total engine damage and be unable to continue race, and sure Sasa Bogadi too... parts should be all over the place and race should be full course yellow! So Safety Car must come out.... that is how this crash should look like :shrug:

mrodgers

22nd May 2007, 02:50

While watching NIKI's link of rFactor on youtube, I found this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRC3rv1ZHj4&mode=related&search=

Now this is some amazing damage modelling in rFactor! (/sarcasm, just wanted to show this vid. Quite amazing!)

N I K I

22nd May 2007, 05:42

lol mate, That is IRL race :D

mrodgers

22nd May 2007, 13:11

And here you would have thought I'd realize that from the commentators, the position bar on the top, and the fact that the SpeedTV logo is on the screen.....

Yes, I know! Note the whited text at the end of my comment...

:D

An incredible crash though. And a good example of parts smashing into little pieces rather than coming off the car in whole parts.

dcToro

22nd May 2007, 19:53

You guys remember the racing game IndyCar Racing 2 from Papyrus?

From 1995 i think, but a very cool damage model. If you had a high speed crash for example the car falled into a lot of pieces and you could see the engine completely.

Or if you just touched one, the front wing got deformated and you could feel the disadvantage behaviour of the car until you stopped to repair it :). That was very good.

Hope to see it in LFS one day :)

RMachucaA

22nd May 2007, 23:38

what is great about the damage model now, is that if you hit something a certain way that pushes the bumper down, the bumper will scrape the ground and limit suspension travel :thumb:

Now all they need is to increase the fidelity of the suspension damage, as to achieve more realistic suspension failures and to model the underbody of the car with exhaust and all that jazz, model the actual 3d engine and suspension pieces, do opening doors\hood\trunk, removable front and rear bumper, damagable radiator (visually spraying smoke\water and physically overheating) and removable wheels for when the accidents are that juicy to knock a wheel off :D Then LFS would be set for the best damage model of all time.