Poll #2: Flip/Reset Rule

[DeadWolfBones]

Since there's serious debate over two of the rules introduced in the rules change thread (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=28289), Benji and I have decided to open the question up to voting. We ask that only current league drivers vote in the poll. Thanks.

We also ask that you read through the thread linked above, as it includes arguments for both sides of the debate.

Poll #2: Flip/Reset Rule

Option 1--Retain existing rules. A flip means a DNF, with no exceptions.

Option 2--Use flip/reset rule as described, with flat-rate lap/time penalty (i.e., 2 laps, 5 minutes, 30 minutes etc). Actual laps/time TBD.

Option 3--Use flip/reset rule as described, with lap/time penalty decided by severity/type of accident. Gentle rolls not caused by excessively aggressive driving would be given a slighter penalty (say, 5 minutes) as opposed to rolls caused by contact with other cars/egregiously bad driving, which would receive a stiffer penalty (say, 15 minutes). See this post (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=496787#post496787). Actual laps/time TBD.

[srdsprinter]

If you cannot control your car for 4 hours, you have screwed yourself, your teamates, and possibly team F1RST. Way to go, you DNF.

Option 1.

[DeadWolfBones]

No, I'm sticking with single choice only.

[bdshan]

You don't specify, but can someone who runs out of fuel reset based on the purposed rule changes?

[Weed]

Option 1 here.

Disappointing to flip etc but surely thats u out!!

[DeadWolfBones]

No, this is for flipped cars only.

Resetting doesn't reset fuel, anyway. Just fixes damage/gives new tires. They would have to shift-p or shift-s.

If the flip/reset rule wins the vote, that's something we might want to consider, though.

[DeadWolfBones]

No, I'm sticking with single choice only.

However, having given this some thought, it seems like options 2-3 are going to split the votes of those who are against option 1.

We may have to count them together.

[srdsprinter]

However, having given this some thought, it seems like options 2-3 are going to split the votes of those who are against option 1.

We may have to count them together.
Not neccesarily, because you're just as likely to be a 1-2 person.

In favor of a STIFF pentalty or DNF

I'm a 1-2 person, but i voted 1, just for that reason. Hence why multiple wouldve been good. So your just as likely to have to count 1-2 together as 2-3 together.

BTW, you're opening a can of worms if the rules involve mid-race "judgement calls"

[AppiePils]

Option 1.

Minor changes to the rules are allowed during the season (For instance adjust them so they are clearer), what you definitely not do is alter rules in such a way that it's impact is way too large during the season.

You cannot held 4 races with no reset allowed and then suddenly allow it in the rest of the races.

Everyone knew beforehand: flip = DNF, leave it that way.

[DeadWolfBones]

Minor changes to the rules are allowed during the season (For instance adjust them so they are clearer), what you definitely not do is alter rules in such a way that it's impact is way too large during the season.

I'm not sure of your reasoning here. This rule shouldn't affect the way you drive whatsoever. Furthermore, were it changed, all drivers would be well aware of it before the next round.

[DeadWolfBones]

Not neccesarily, because you're just as likely to be a 1-2 person.

In favor of a STIFF pentalty or DNF

I don't really understand how you can be in favor of no reset and in favor of reset. The options for 2 and 3 clearly said penalty time/laps TBD, which indicates that we'd have another discussion on that.

[AppiePils]

I'm not sure of your reasoning here. This rule shouldn't affect the way you drive whatsoever. Furthermore, were it changed, all drivers would be well aware of it before the next round.

The reasoning is that 4 (/5) races have occurred without this rule. How will you deal with those races, reverse the results? Not only will that lead to a lot of additional work, it wouldn't be fair to those who receive the negative results of those reversed results: those races have been run under the rules as they currently exist, adding a reset rule may be the reason to take a bit more risk and thus hypothetically people could have had a better result if they knew such a rule beforehand.

And forgive me my English, I'm an import American!

[DeadWolfBones]

Ok, I understand your reasoning, I just don't think that it's completely out of the question to change such a rule in the middle of a season. See, for example, NASCAR's decision to add the no racing to the yellow flag rule mid-season.

Furthermore, if anyone decides they're going to drive more recklessly due to there being a reset rule, they're not reading the rule very closely. It's designed to punish those who flip in such a way that it will hurt their final standings in the race.

[DeadWolfBones]

Btw, how would you feel about this rule were it applied next season rather than now?

[srdsprinter]

I would never like seeing a reset enabled, but that's just me. You need to control your car to the finish.

If you get taken out, thats tough, but that's life.

DWB, Someone could be Not in favor of option 3 but vote for 2, so how can you lump them?

[DeadWolfBones]

I would never like seeing a reset enabled, but that's just me. You need to control your car to the finish.

So you're not really split between 1 & 2?

DWB, Someone could be Not in favor of option 3 but vote for 2, so how can you lump them?

You can lump them because 2 and 3 are both pro-reset. If figure out that the majority are pro-reset, then we can figure out how the resets should be handled. In retrospect I should have made it a simple yes-no poll.

[AppiePils]

Ok, I understand your reasoning, I just don't think that it's completely out of the question to change such a rule in the middle of a season. See, for example, NASCAR's decision to add the no racing to the yellow flag rule mid-season.

Furthermore, if anyone decides they're going to drive more recklessly due to there being a reset rule, they're not reading the rule very closely. It's designed to punish those who flip in such a way that it will hurt their final standings in the race.


Bold: I never said that, I only said that somethings you should not change due to the impact of that change during the season.

[srdsprinter]

You can lump them because 2 and 3 are both pro-reset. If figure out that the majority are pro-reset, then we can figure out how the resets should be handled. In retrospect I should have made it a simple yes-no poll.


And respectively:

1 & 2 are both Harsh pentalty so you can lump them.

[DeadWolfBones]

And respectively:

1 & 2 are both Harsh pentalty.

Ok, now you're really making this more difficult than it needs to be.

[banshee56]

Option 1 - The way resets are currently done, I say "Flip your car, you're done", plain and simple.

I would like to see the devs come up with a way to get your car "towed" back to the pits and not lose race position information, but that isn't the case currently, so option 1 is the more realistic option.

[N I K I]

voted for 1

[KSheppard]

voted for #1...ya filpper ya out

[Gil07]

Flip=out IMO.

Oh damn, sorry, just realised I'm not on the driver list atm. Scrap my vote then ;)

[nmanley]

Option #1. :)