Post-Round 5 Rules Changes

[DeadWolfBones]

Hello, racers.

After Round 5, some situations came to light that needed to be addressed re: our rules system. Please see the attached Word document for the changes (in bold). These will be added to the official rules page shortly.

Important changes, summarized:


Every car must have at least two drivers per race. No single driver may drive more than 75% of the race distance.
Flipped cars no longer have to spectate. They should wait for a race control message instructing them to reset their car. After the subsequent restart, they will be given a 45-second penalty in order to simulate the repair cost for damage incurred during their accident. They will take this penalty under green flag conditions.
When the SC/full-course yellow comes out, you are to cease racing immediately and fall in line. This includes cars you are on the same lap with AND cars that are one or more laps behind or ahead of you. In other words, NO PASSING (unless you're a lapped car ahead of the leader who's passing the SC).
Pit speed limiter is no longer required until the final sector of the lap prior to the restart. When the leader enters the final sector, he must engage the pit limiter. All cars behind must close the gap (but still leave room to the car ahead) and also engage their limiters. At this time the SC will drive off. The green will come out when the leader enters the S/F straight. Though there will be no limiter required prior to this final sector, the SC will run on its limiter, so you must drive intelligently and without excess testosterone. Just be smart, people.
Under a SC period, drivers exiting the pits must maintain the positions they have when they exit. In other words, no passing someone after you've exited the pits but before you catch the field.
Previously, all DNFs were placed behind all finishing teams. In other words, a lead lap team who ran out of gas on the last lap would be ranked behind a team who finished 10 laps down. We feel that this system is unfair to teams who drive great races but DNF very close to the end of the race. Therefore, from now on, teams who DNF but have completed 90% of the leader's completed laps will be ranked with finishing teams in order of laps finished. Teams who DNF will be ranked behind all finishing cars on their lap. There are examples in the rules document if this is confusing for anyone.

[DeadWolfBones]

Here's a quick extra update thanks to our eagle-eyed marshal Hallen:


There are two exceptions to the no passing under SC rule: 1) as previously stated, drivers who are laps behind but ahead of the leader may pass the SC (but not each other) and 2) drivers of undamaged cars may pass cars that are off the pace due to severe damage (i.e., the cars that brought out the SC period).

[srdsprinter]

Just so I understand:



Flipped cars no longer have to spectate. They should wait for a race control message instructing them to reset their car. When the race is restarted following the SC period resulting from their flip, they will be given a stop-go penalty in order to simulate the repair cost for damage incurred during their accident.So we are running Reset on now?
Doesn't that undo all the damage, and give them fresh rubber?
Basically flipping your car results in less than one lap penalty?



Previously, all DNFs were placed behind all finishing teams. In other words, a lead lap team who ran out of gas on the last lap would be ranked behind a team who finished 10 laps down. We feel that this system is unfair to teams who drive great races but DNF very close to the end of the race. Therefore, from now on, teams who DNF but have completed 90% of the leader's completed laps will be ranked with finishing teams in order of laps finished. Teams who DNF will be ranked behind all finishing cars on their lap. There are examples in the rules document if this is confusing for anyone.

Basically TDRT would be ranked 6th instead of 7th from now on?

[DeadWolfBones]

Just so I understand:

[/list]So we are running Reset on now?
Doesn't that undo all the damage, and give them fresh rubber?
Basically flipping your car results in less than one lap penalty?

Reset will be off until someone is flipped, at which time a marshal will activate it and RCM the flipped driver to reset. Then it will be turned off again. If anyone is caught abusing the reset when not flipped, they will be DQ'd and under probation for the remainder of the season. A second offense of this nature means a ban from the league. However, this shouldn't be a problem as the marshals will use a directed RCM to tell the flipped driver when to reset and no one else should be aware that it's on.

Thanks for pointing out how short a SG is. I was under the impression that a SG was for 30 seconds, until I just tried it. Apparently it's 10. We'll change the SG to a 45s penalty, unless the consensus is that that's too lenient.

Basically TDRT would be ranked 5th instead of 7th from now on?

Basically, yes. We're applying the rule to this race's results as well. So they will in fact benefit from it.

[DeadWolfBones]

After some pointed objections from Stu, we are reconsidering the two above-quoted rules changes.

i.e.,

1) The time a flipped car is held in the pits after its reset may be extended to several laps.

2) The change re: DNFs will either be applied to all previous results this season or to none of them (but will be applied in the future in either case).

The admins will confer over these matters and give a decision shortly.

[R.Kolz]

Quote:
Basically TDRT would be ranked 5th instead of 7th from now on?
Basically, yes. We're applying the rule to this race's results as well. So they will in fact benefit from it.

Pls. allow me a comment:

For the TDRT team it wouldn?t matter if this rule starts from next race. The main point is: This rule makes totally sense. 179 laps driven and a unlucky DNF is better then waiting in the pits for 3h55mins and then do 2 laps and finsish the race by crossing the start/finish line...


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[srdsprinter]

Agree, but it needs further thought:

What if you had lapped the field?
Would you still win the race regardless that you did not finish?

[DeadWolfBones]

Agree, but it needs further thought:

What if you had lapped the field?
Would you still win the race regardless that you did not finish?

No, because the leader has to cross the finish line after 4 hours has elapsed in order to end the race. If the leader has DNF'd he cannot cross the finish line, and therefore the clock will simply continue to run until 2nd place has taken the lead and crossed the finish.

[srdsprinter]

But he had more laps (theorhetically)

[DeadWolfBones]

He won't have more laps once the 2nd place car (and other cars on the 2nd place car's lap) has caught him and passed him and taken the finish.

The IMSA sporting code (http://www.imsaracing.net/2007/alms/bulletins/2007%20IMSA%20Code%20v1%200%20final.pdf) shortcuts this by simply declaring the 2nd place car the winner, but LFS does it automatically.

6.21.4 If the leading car is not running at the expiration of the time limit, the checkered flag will be given to the next highest running car in the same manner.

6.22 TIES

In case of a tie (dead heat), the competitors concerned will share equally the sum of the prizes, championship points, and other awards allotted for their positions.

6.23 OFFICIAL RESULTS

6.23.1 All starting cars may be credited with a finishing position whether or not they are running when the checkered flag is given.

[DeadWolfBones]

Basically, the race cannot end until the leader crosses the finish line. If the leader (who has a lap or more lead on the field) DNFs, say, on the last lap, then the car in 2nd place will continue to lap until he becomes the leader and then takes the checkers. The car who was in 1st will then be classified as the last car on the lead lap.

See how it works?

[srdsprinter]

Say Benji did not DNF, he completed 181 laps in under 4 hours, but ran out of gas on lap 182.

Niki would continue and take the win with 180 laps. But with the rules now, Benji would be scored as the last car with 181 laps, therefore, he wins.



(Edit, sorry to be difficult, but rules should be able to work in all instances)

[DeadWolfBones]

Say Benji did not DNF, he completed 181 laps in under 4 hours, but ran out of gas on lap 182.

Ok...

Niki would continue and take the win with 180 laps. But with the rules now, Benji would be scored as the last car with 181 laps, therefore, he wins.

You're missing the logic here.

Niki cannot finish the race with 180 laps if Benji has completed 181. The race will not end until the leader crosses the finish line, and Niki will not be the leader until he has made up the laps he's down and passed Benji. He can cross the line as many times as it takes, but the race won't end until he's the leader. Niki would win with 182 laps completed, Benji would either end up on the tail end of the lead lap (if he completed more than half of lap 182) or on the tail end of 1 lap down (if he completed less than half of lap 182).

[srdsprinter]

Hmm... I see.

However, a car must spectate when he runs out of fuel.

Benji spectates after finishing 181 laps.
Niki wins with only 180.

[DeadWolfBones]

I have to admit I haven't actually tested these circumstances, but they're what logic would dictate should happen and Scawen seems to be pretty big on logic.

[DeadWolfBones]

Hmm... I see.

However, a car must spectate when he runs out of fuel.

Benji spectates after finishing 181 laps.
Niki wins with only 180.


Aha, you've got me there. :)

We can do one of two things in this specific circumstance:

1) We can force the (former) leader to remain on track until the race ends.

2) We can assign the (former) leader to the tail end of the lead lap.

I'd prefer #2.

[DeadWolfBones]

Now, let's discuss what sort of time penalty flipped cars should get following a reset.

45 seconds?
1 lap?
2 laps?
3 laps?

I'm thinking that one of the middle two options is probably the best.

[srdsprinter]

It's pretty theorhetical, but as you said, needs to be based on sound logic.

Basic rule of racing has always been:
To finish first, first you must finish.

I can appreciate and sympathize for TDRT's situation, but it seems unfair to penalize a team that did finish, especially given the points format.

Ergo, it is illogical to use a sanctioning body's rules in some aspects, but disregard them in others.

As long as something is set pre-event, all teams know and approach a race accordingly.

[srdsprinter]

Now, let's discuss what sort of time penalty flipped cars should get following a reset.

45 seconds?
1 lap?
2 laps?
3 laps?

I'm thinking that one of the middle two options is probably the best.

Personally, I would like to see the team to be able to continue, but only for the sake of the other teamates.

If a car was salvagable, I would imagine it would be a considerable time deficit. With only 8 scoring points, after a flip even a leader should have a hard time getting into the points. I'd say 5 minutes, 3 laps seems like a very recoverable amount of time.

It should be EPIC if someone comes back from flipping their car.

Where will this lead though? Team F1RST flipped out of the track outside the fence. Would they get to reset?

[R.Kolz]

Hmm... I see.

However, a car must spectate when he runs out of fuel.

Benji spectates after finishing 181 laps.
Niki wins with only 180.

Well, it doesn?t matter at all what you?d do with this 181 laps car. Spectate it, park it on the grass or whatever. This car still has done 1 lap more then your " winner " with 180 laps only.

Another thing is: The 181 laps car would have been the fastest car on the track and therefore deserves to win.

But I must admit. You?re confusing me ... gi?me a break pls. :tilt:

Regards..
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[R.Kolz]

I can appreciate and sympathize for TDRT's situation, but it seems unfair to penalize a team that did finish, especially given the points format.


???

Pls. read my post 6 in this thread once more...
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[srdsprinter]

the fastest car on the track and therefore deserves to win.


The fastest car does not mean it deserves to win.

That's why we run the race. Otherwise, just qualify and call it a day.


???
Pls. read my post 6 in this thread once more...
In the future my friend.

[AppiePils]

The fastest car does not mean it deserves to win.

That's why we run the race. Otherwise, just qualify and call it a day.




Yay we won o/

:P

[srdsprinter]

Yay we won o/

:P
Best Post Yet. :)


Final Thoughts on Resets vs DNF's:

Racing is about driving to the limit. Pushing too hard has consequences!

If you remove those consequences, all you have is a hotlap game ran for 4 hours.

NO offence to anyone here, but all the cars that DNF'd due to flipping were pushing over the Limit, its that simple. Even by rolling tire or physics glitch, you were over the limit of staying in control of your vehicle.

The Balance between all out speed and leaving enough room for error is what endurance racing is about!


I would like for the teams to be able to continue, but there has to be a severe enough consequence that punishes those who drove past the limits.

[N I K I]

Hmm... I see.

However, a car must spectate when he runs out of fuel.

Benji spectates after finishing 181 laps.
Niki wins with only 180.

mate this would be if was 2 laps down when Benji run out of fuel, witch is impossible :p If we are in same lap he would have 179 and i 180 :shrug: You didn't count lap what you are in, you count last lap you cross start finish line.

I dislike this rule of car reseting, can we have pool about that, it's unfair, if you flip no more racing, imo this is dumb
tbh this flipping is only been problem whit FE. But it can happen on other tracks too, still that doesn't mean that you can just reset you car and go on (whit penalty or not, doesn't matter :p).

IMO Shift+S and Shift+P are forbidden whit reason. Only time car can countinue is in case of disconnect.
I liked idea about push car, if you stuck in sand (XRR's problem) push car saves you :D

And i agree whit rule when someone gets DNF in last 10% of race (24 minutes) he should be scored in final results in order of his laps finish.

[r4ptor]

* Pit speed limiter is no longer required until the final sector of the lap prior to the restart. When the leader enters the final sector, he must engage the pit limiter. All cars behind must close the gap (but still leave room to the car ahead) and also engage their limiters. At this time the SC will drive off. The green will come out when the leader enters the S/F straight. Though there will be no limiter required prior to this final sector, the SC will run on its limiter, so you must drive intelligently and without excess testosterone. Just be smart, people.

Rev limiter was introduced because drivers were bumping into each other too often - we've had some amount of debate about how bothersome that was and I don't think changing it would be a good idea. We have much less bumping going on now, but it still occurs. With the limiter off, the chances will only increase and some ppl are simply not able to keep slow pace manually in a safe manner.

I would rather see the rule as it currently is - but with the addition of forced limiter during the entire last sector.

[bdshan]

I gotta agree with NIKI here, you flip your can and up on on your lid your done for the day. So are you saying that I should be able to reset after running out of fuel too? Theoretically, the push car should come out and push the car out of fuel the pits and he can continue after refueling.

DNFs should be placed based on the number of laps (or elapsed time) completed period.

[DeadWolfBones]

Ok, so...

In general, everyone seems cool with the 90% DNF rule.

In general, there seems to be a lot of concern over the flip/reset rule.

Do you guys want a poll on the latter?

Options would be like so:

1. No reset. A flip is a DNF.
2. Resets as described in rule change. Penalty is a specific number of laps.
3. Resets as described in rule change. Penalty is a specific number of minutes.

[BenjiMC]

I have been re-thinking the 90% rule myself aswell. As stu said, it's not right to reward teams just for being fast even though they have not completed the 4 hours of racing. But it's not fair to disqualify a team that has raced so close to the 4 hours to DNF right outside the pit lane... thats what the 90% rule is for, not penalising slow teams, but benefiting teams that have run the race for so close to the 4 hours just to DNF on the last few laps.

[srdsprinter]

Ok, so...

In general, everyone seems cool with the 90% DNF rule.

In general, there seems to be a lot of concern over the flip/reset rule.

Do you guys want a poll on the latter?

Options would be like so:

1. No reset. A flip is a DNF.
2. Resets as described in rule change. Penalty is a specific number of laps.
3. Resets as described in rule change. Penalty is a specific number of minutes.
My choices would be:

1) Flip = DNF. No different than out of gas.

2) Flip = out of gas = 30 minute pentaly. You can keep racing, but points (as they are now) are out of the question.

3) Flip = out of gas = 3-5 laps. You could make the points, but it would be extremely difficult.

I would be fine with 1) or 2).

You would need to run the poll allowing the user to Pick Multiple Choices btw.

[DeadWolfBones]

My choices would be:

1) Flip = DNF. No different than out of gas.

2) Flip = out of gas = 30 minute pentaly. You can keep racing, but points (as they are now) are out of the question.

3) Flip = out of gas = 3-5 laps. You could make the points, but it would be extremely difficult.

I would be fine with 1) or 2).

I understand your desire to be harsh on those who flip. However, you have to realize that a large percentage of flips in LFS are fairly gentle and don't result in any serious damage. Should those be penalized with 30 minute delays as well as the sort of car-destroying/chassis-bending wrecks I'm pretty sure you're thinking about?

[srdsprinter]

In a word, yes.

If you make a mistake, pushing past the limit in an endurance race, you deserve to be punished... harshly.

If you are driving without enough room for error that you risk flipping in a Endurance race, you deserve to be punished.

Endurance is a skill, a balancing act. You flip, you lack balance.

Edit - It isn't about the damage, its about respecting the idea that to finish first, first you have to finish. That means not driving 110% every lap with your hair on fire, not making mental errors.

[bdshan]

I am sorry but I have to disagree with the 90% rule. Any team that does not cross the finish line should not be allowed to place higher than someone who did.

This is a time based race, not a lap based race. If your not in the race the full 4 hours you should not be allowed to finish ahead of someone who completes the full 4 hours.

[DeadWolfBones]

DNFs should be placed based on the number of laps (or elapsed time) completed period.

I am sorry but I have to disagree with the 90% rule. Any team that does not cross the finish line should not be allowed to place higher than someone who did.

This is a time based race, not a lap based race. If your not in the race the full 4 hours you should not be allowed to finish ahead of someone who completes the full 4 hours.

Change of heart?

Do you think that a team that completes, say, 199 laps of 200 (but runs out of fuel on the last lap, or is involved in an accident while racing for the win) should be classified behind a team who completes 170 laps?

[srdsprinter]

I don't think you understood his first quote,

DNF's should be placed (amoungst themselves) based of laps or time done.

Again, a 4 hour race has to have judgment, risk. If you're going to race that hard for the win, you have to be willing to accept the Risk of what could happen.

[DeadWolfBones]

I figured it was something like that, but (as we're all finding out) you have to be very specific in discussions about rules.

[DeadWolfBones]

It just seems a bit strange to me to harp on the races being about endurance, but to view endurance as time only. Endurance is also distance, and if one car's gone 199 laps and DNF'd and another goes 170 and finishes... well, the first car has endured a lot more miles than the second.

[srdsprinter]

But the race (nay, the Series) is judged as a 4 hour timed race.

The point is to endure a set amount of time (4 hours). If you can drive fast but cannot endure till the end how are you better than someone who actually does endure the 4 hours?

[DeadWolfBones]

The winner of an endurance race is the car that covers the most distance in the time alotted, no?

[srdsprinter]

The winner is the one has Finished the amount of time with the most laps.

Relate back to our discussion about more laps but dnf (dread).

[r4ptor]

I am sorry but I have to disagree with the 90% rule. Any team that does not cross the finish line should not be allowed to place higher than someone who did

I agree - a slow team can just as easily work their butts off to make sure they finish the race. Endu racing isn't just about driving, but also about strategies and preparations to make sure all 4 hours can be completed. Who's to judge that a slower team can't work out a better strategy than a faster team (who happen to not to be able to finish)?

DNF rankings should be dealt with amongst other DNF teams - after the teams who finished.

Regarding 30 min penalty. I agree that we should have severe penalties for someone driving a bit too recklessly - but what if a car flip because f someone else, but no marshals saw it? Sometimes a car can also flip because the driver went a tiny bit off line (like @ Blackwood chicane), but not because they were pushing it too hard.

I think 30 mins is too much. My vote goes for 5 mins maximum if it was a solo incident.

If other car(s) were involved, then 15 min penalty, after the race have finished.

[DeadWolfBones]

There is precedent for both ways of doing things. ALMS, for instance, places DNFs amongst finishers (http://results.speedtv.com/results.php?schedule_id=536) in order of laps completed (as do lots of other American series like NASCAR, CCWS, IRL, etc). I believe several European series do not.

The 24 Hours of Le Mans doesn't (http://www.formula2.net/2006.htm). The 24 Hours of Daytona does (http://www.daytona24hr.com/24hr2007/finalresults.html).

It could easily go other way (and does, all the time, in real life). It's definitely not clear-cut.

[srdsprinter]

R4ptor -

The trouble with that is IRL, if someone flips you, you are done. They could get penalized, but your both Out.

F1RST got taken out because of a chicane incident that their driver did not avoid. That's tough, but that's real racing.

Edit 2 -> Again, if its by yourself, and you push to the point where you risk flipping, you deserve to be DNF. Its a 4 hour race, and your driving beyond your limits.

24 hr N-ring race, you gotta cross the line after 24 hrs. Again, its not just one way.

[bdshan]

Change of heart?

Do you think that a team that completes, say, 199 laps of 200 (but runs out of fuel on the last lap, or is involved in an accident while racing for the win) should be classified behind a team who completes 170 laps?

No change of heart. No DNF should be placed ahead of someone who crosses the finishline, not matter how many laps have been completed. You run of of fuel on the last lap you can't cross the finish line. That is unless the push car comes out or another car pushes you across the line. If you are racing for the win in the closing laps but push too hard and crash, pucture a tire, or run out of fuel you deal with the consequences. Getting across the finish line is what matters.

DNFs should be placed after everyone who crosses the finishline based on race elapsed time at the time of their catostrophic failure.

I hope I clarified by position.

Rules - nobody likes them, but you gotta have 'em. :razz:

[Hallen]

I think some of you are forgetting something. This is a game and it is done for entertainment.

Making severe consequences for wrecking is good. It is important to reward sane driving and realistic racing. However, if you put in weeks of personal time, practicing, tweaking sets, testing tires, etc, and you get punted in turn 1 and end up on your roof, well, that just sucks. I would highly consider not putting in all that effort next time. I do realize that this is "real". But ask any driver and team in any racing series, and they will tell you the worst thing is having something like this happen. If they could change this they would. Also note that consequences like this do NOT stop them from happening in the first place. Dumb turn 1 accidents still happen even though nobody on the grid wants them to happen. (I know we are not talking just about turn 1 here, but it is a good example)

In a simulation, we have the ability to make some adjustments here to insure that everybody has a fair chance of winning, and everybody has a fair chance to have fun AND it is fair and balanced.

Take the XRR getting stuck in the sand with no damage. Should they be a DNF? In real life, I have seen hundreds of situations where cars stuck in the gravel getting pushed out by the marshals and they are allowed to continue if their cars can get back to the pits. There is a penalty because of lost laps, but they can still finish the race. This weekend's F1 race was a prime example. Lewis Hamilton kept racing and almost finished in the points after ending up in the gravel trap.

We know that the XRR getting stuck is probably more realistic than the FXR always getting out of the sand. But this league allows the push car to get cars out of the traps. Why is an unrealistic roll over caused by a curb any different? Yes, the car gets damaged, but I have seen many times where a car rolls, ends up on its wheels, and finishes the race without ever pitting to fix the damage. There are simply limitations to sim racing and leagues should make rules to accommodate some of this. It is one of the things that makes sim racing fun and flexible. (The current implementation of the reset rules also make this more of an issue IMHO)

So, a car that ends up on its roof should be treated like a car in the sand. They should be able to continue, but they will pay a price by a reasonable delay in the pits.

Bones is right about the finishing order. ALMS counts how many laps you have done over the time period and uses that to determine finishing position. To me, this makes more sense than DNF. If I have driven more miles than another competitor, then I should be placed higher overall than that other car. If I am a strange person, I could park my car in the pits after the first lap, leave the pits and finish the last lap, and be placed above a car that got crashed out (so damaged that they can't get to the pits) but finished hundreds of laps. Is that reasonable and fair?

I applaud what the IGTC team is trying to do here. Make a realistic endurance league that is fun and challenging. It is good that they have asked our opinion on the rules changes, but ultimately, it is up to them to decide. If you don't like the decision, find another series. Rule making is very difficult and things have to be spelled out precisely. There are always little things that leak through the cracks. Everybody just has to deal with it and realize that common sense and fair play must take precedence over splitting hairs on the rules.

Sorry about the long post:schwitz:

[srdsprinter]

Sorry but your off the mark imo.

You have to set yourself to drive within the limitations of your surrounding present.

In LFS now, the limitations are of the curbing can easily flip you. Why not just sacrifice .1 second per lap and drive safely? That is the Real thing to do.

If you abuse the curbs and flip, you face the consequence of a DNF.

If you don't make a stand, you get glorified hotlapping for 4 hours. Endurance racing take pace strategy and compromise.

[DeadWolfBones]

I'm in agreement with pretty much everything Eric said there.

...as if you couldn't tell from my other posts. :D

[srdsprinter]

I agree with Eric's gist but (trying to be concise):

By aiding drivers who err due to being under-prepared or pushing too hard, you risk undermining the teams that prepare and push within the limits of what is reasonable for endurance type racing.

[DeadWolfBones]

I agree with Eric's gist but (trying to be concise):

By aiding drivers who err due to being under-prepared or pushing too hard, you risk undermining the teams that prepare and push within the limits of what is reasonable for endurance type racing.

I think that you're pushing the "under-prepared or pushing too hard" thing. This may be the case at times, but there are plenty of accidents that happen to well-prepared teams with competent, controlled drivers. The point of these changes is to make the racing more enjoyable and rewarding for everyone. I honestly don't see any danger of the league becoming "glorified hotlapping."

[srdsprinter]

More rewarding for teams that make mistakes means that reward is being removed from teams who didn't make mistakes...

That's just how i see it.

[DeadWolfBones]

More rewarding for teams that make mistakes means that reward is being removed from teams who didn't make mistakes...

That's just how i see it.

Again, the rule will be tuned to penalize the teams who make mistakes (who doesn't?) so that they will usually finish behind those who don't.

[srdsprinter]

who doesn't?

The teams that finish? :scratchch

J/k. But in all seriousness, the 6 cars that finish understood not to put themselves in a position where they would flip and/or run out of gas. That IS what endurance racing is, finishing is the foremost goal. Yes we made mistakes, but we knew to avoid the errors that would end our day.

I guess that's too hard?

[DeadWolfBones]

The teams that finish? :scratchch

J/k. But in all seriousness, the 6 cars that finish understood not to put themselves in a position where they would flip and/or run out of gas. That IS what endurance racing is, finishing is the foremost goal. Yes we made mistakes, but we knew to avoid the errors that would end our day.

I'd say that our car, at least, was on the very verge of flipping quite often during the race and I'd say it 50% was sheer luck (during my stints, anyway) that we didn't go over at some point. In order to maintain the leaders' pace we had to be very aggressive at the curbs and it resulted in quite a lot of wheels off the ground. This is down to the track design + physics flaws + incomplete features in LFS; they encourage dangerous driving in order to be quick.

We were putting ourselves in those positions all race long... we were just lucky.