Division Sorting Poll

[Arrow.]

Option 1

Open 3 servers for 2 weeks each on different combos
FWD: Kyoto National Reverse - XFG
RWD: Blackwood GP - GTR
Open wheeler: South City Town - MRT
All team drivers can enter the servers and set a times
The Tracker will record all the times which will be displayed on the BOTT website (coming soon).
To determine the divisions take fastest lap from each team and from all 3 servers. Add these lap times together as a total this will decide the divisions
from here it will work same as last season 16 teams 32 drivers (2 cars per team)
Same division all 8 rounds

Reasons why:
- No time wasting and mucking around before rounds, waiting for all 96 drivers to minimize check what server they are in and get into grid positions
- Has more of a competitive feel about it (imo) trying to get some fast times in to be put into a decent division aswell as trying to move up divisions
- More team effort/spirit working together on the servers sharing setups, tips ect
- 3 combos in different cars and track same as the series so the teams in Div A should be the fastest

Reasons why not?
- may get some people driving on the server for hours on end how ever this would be no different then practice for the rounds and pauls method
- may take some time to sort and add together the lap times.

Option 2

Idea (paul's):
If you scrap divisions, and the whole promotion & relegation idea, and put all 48 teams into 1 big pot and then. At 20utc on race day put 16 random team into each server for 20min qualifying after qualifying the results will be displayed from the tracker and it will tell you which server you need to join http://www.lfs-tracker.de/quali_mode.php?league=71
This will happen every round

In Server A, points are awarded 90, 89, 88.... 62, 61
In Server B, points are awarded 60, 59, 58.... 32, 31
In Server C, points are awarded 30, 29, 28.... 2, 1

This means that in each server you should have the guarantee that your racing with 30 drivers of pretty much the same ability as each other. Being last in S-A would give you 1pt more than coming first in S-B, meaning the 30th placed driver gets 1 point more than the 31st placed.
This means 1 team driver can be in server A and 1 in Server C

Reasons why:
If the series ran in this manner there would be rounds where you had the potential to really be rewarded for a good result at a round, you wouldnt be limited to the points that division offers, you would be entitled to race with those you were equal to, not who your forced to race with in that division.


Another bonus is for the sake of future teams. Anyone that doesnt compete in any 'division qualifying stage' doesnt get the quick step up to a higher division, in future they'd have no other choice but to start at the bottom step of the ladder (Division 3, maybe 4!) and work their way up from that.
While that might not bother those already taking part, there are teams who arent involved in this season, and any decent team that could be a match for mid-division or higher level or racing would have no choice but to 'rough it' at the bottom season after season until they're in with their 'equals'. This method makes everyone 'equals' when qualifying opens, if your quick then you race with the quick guys, if you suck then hey, you get to race with me when i do the odd round!!
Is expecting some of the quicker teams to start from the bottom going to be encouraging for their future entry or is it going to be looked at as a reason not to compete? Afterall, if theres 2 seasons per year, who wants to complete in a season for 1+ year to get to those your competitive with?
Geniune question, of the Division 1 capable team guys taking part this season be willing to take part in the series if we were say 1yr on and an established series of divisions existed and it wouldnt be till 12 months time that you had some meaningful opposition to compete with?
IMO any quick team that isnt in now wouldnt look too fondly upon this measure, and as day to day leader of Mercury i dont think i'd be all that fussed about taking part, we'd want to race with equal ability drivers/teams. So does divisions make for a good series? Anyone still even reading this??

Reasons why not?
- problem is that maybe some of the lower teams may feel that they dont have something to challenge for, i guess its always nice to win something and if its winning Division 2 or 3 then its a step, maybe '3rd in Div2' is considered more of an acheivement than '15th in BOTT' even if its actually the same thing.
- After qualifying having to wait for 96 drivers to find there server and get sorted into there grid position for the race. some people could get lost or lose connection which can hold up the racing


Poll closes in 4 days

[danowat]

Option 1 for me, plus I am FAIRLY sure you can limit the amount of laps you can do with the tracker, the ESL did just that and only allowed 20 laps on the server.........

[csurdongulos]

question regarding option 1: RWD - GTR, which GTR?
danowat's suggestion: 20 laps per team, or per each driver of the team?

I have voted for option 2 as it determines the grid with the drivers that are actually going to race.
Regarding grid sorting, it isn't that hard to go to a website and check your position after the qualifying. You just have to put in a decent break of 5-10 minutes to allow everyone to sort it out for themselves.

[danowat]

It was just a suggestion, I guess you could look at the average number of team members and then give the average number 20 laps each.

So.......average number of drivers in ALL teams (for example) 9
9 x 20 laps each, 180 laps.

I dunno, just a suggestion........

[Arrow.]

limited laps on the server is a good idea however it doesnt restrict anyone from practising offline.
Limited laps imo i wouldnt work because people will just go offline practise till there hearts content then jump on the server :scratchch

[danowat]

limited laps on the server is a good idea however it doesnt restrict anyone from practising offline.
Limited laps imo i wouldnt work because people will just go offline practise till there hearts content then jump on the server :scratchch

Have you ever heard the term you can't polish a turd?.

People are either quick or not, I will never be as fast as some drivers no matter how much pratice I get offline :D

[mr_x]

I can't decide between the two, they both have their upsides and downsides. Both are (I think) reasonable ideas. So I'll skip the vote on this poll :)

[Storm_Cloud]

I have gone for Option 2 as I think it will provide the closest racing. It will be more work for the admins, but I think they must be happy (or at least willing) to do this or they would not have offered the option.

[Arrow.]

yeah im willing to go with whatever you all think is best.
i just dont want things getting messy and confusing that is my only worry.
:shrug:

[Gil07]

I've gone with option 2, as it will sort the drivers by how good they are at the combo they're supposed to race, thus giving a better racing experience for all.

[DeadWolfBones]

I voted for option 2 as well.

[Michel 4AGE]

Option 2. The people who qualify, will race too then.

[dodo.ger]

i didnt vote either, the option 2 will give the closest racing but its damn much work for the admins and maybe a bit hectic for the teams too.

option 1 has worked for me in all esl seasons.

:shrug:

[anttt69]

Option one with limited laps pls :thumb: (also promo's & relegations every 3 rounds)

[PaulC2K]

limited laps on the server is a good idea however it doesnt restrict anyone from practising offline.
Limited laps imo i wouldnt work because people will just go offline practise till there hearts content then jump on the server :scratchch
Surely the same thing can be said for any qualifying session? If it was 20min before the race start wouldnt people be practicing before then too, im pretty sure most will have done plenty of combo practice anyway.
You'll always practice upto the point in which you have to do something, whether you have 1 shot or 100, its... practicing :shrug:

[anttt69]

Come on guys imagine the chaos of organising 48 teams 20mins before the first race. It makes sense to get the pre quali done & dusted days/weeks before it starts. Option 1 all the way.

[MyBoss]

Have you ever heard the term you can't polish a turd?.

People are either quick or not, I will never be as fast as some drivers no matter how much pratice I get offline :D


I edited that for you.

"People are either quick or not, I will never be fast no matter how much pratice I get offline "


:tilt: :razz: :D

[danowat]

Yeah, thanks...........

[MyBoss]

lol, guess irony wasn't meant for internet forums. :tilt:

Joke mate, joke.

[csurdongulos]

Come on guys imagine the chaos of organising 48 teams 20mins before the first race. It makes sense to get the pre quali done & dusted days/weeks before it starts.

what's the big deal about it? you see a list with your name on it and you join the server which is assigned to you, pretty simple I think. It just needs to be decided how many people race on one server and the process must be clearly communicated to the teams. for example: racers being in positions 1st-25th go to the 1st server, 26th-50th to the 2nd server.
That's it. There already is a tracker, no extra work needs to be done.

[jamesrowe]

Ant, can you please stop harassing person's PM inbox with;
VOTE OPTION 1

Thank you.

[anttt69]

Oh right thats harassment is'nt it? :really: chill jim

Do you understand the word Private as opposed to public? when i send someone a private message I expect it to stay that way.

[nikka]

I wasn't sure what option to vote for before I heard about your PM. So now I voted for 2 just beacuse I found that PM extremely stupid.

FYI only :)

[anttt69]

So now I voted for 2 just beacuse I found that PM extremely stupid.

FYI only :)

Well nikka I find voting for something just because you dont like a message very stupid. You should vote for the option you want I'm not forcing you to vote just asking you to.

FYI only :)

[MyBoss]

I wasn't sure what option to vote for before I heard about your PM. So now I voted for 2 just beacuse I found that PM extremely stupid.


The PM wasn't stupid, your reason for voting for option number 2 on the other hand, is stupid.

[nikka]

extremely stupid.
very stupid

Woho, I won.

Seriously dude... people here are able to think for themself and have an opinion on something without people writing them trying to tell them whats best. I just don't see the point. At all. Go cure world hunger or something instead of wasting your time on writing lame PM's.

[anttt69]

Oh right so just because you have an opinion it gives you the right to go around insulting people?

& yes I was just killing some time, no need to get so upset.:weeping:

[nikka]

Oh right so just because you have an opinion it gives you the right to go around insulting people?

That didn't make any sense.

& yes I was just killing some time, no need to get so upset.:weeping:

mehehe, yes, very upset indeed. Can't sleep tonight for sure :)

But let's stop this now please. Good luck with your campaign and all that. I'll go cure world hunger now.

[jamesrowe]

I wasn't sure what option to vote for before I heard about your PM. So now I voted for 2 just beacuse I found that PM extremely stupid.

FYI only :)
Nice one :p

[Cawwa]

Wtf is this? Can't you guys just let the discussion continue without harassing ppl. Take your private argument to the PM where it belongs.

About voting; none of the option is good imo, since there is no team effort in this. Besides help each other out to get a good hotlap.

So ... no need to PM me about voting on any no good suggestion, it just doesn't matter. We take it as it come.

[Storm_Cloud]

So, is this the result?

[PaulC2K]

Wtf is this? Can't you guys just let the discussion continue without harassing ppl. Take your private argument to the PM where it belongs. here, here. But dont forget to post each message on here so we can all read ;)

About voting; none of the option is good imo, since there is no team effort in this. Besides help each other out to get a good hotlap.
What sort of 'team effort' would you like to see? Im not really sure what other option there is that makes it more of a team effort.
Every team is allowed 2 cars, and you can put any 2 (or 4 for endurance i'd imagine) of your drivers into the car to get you the best result possible.

How you get there is your choice, whether the whole team mucks in and the fastest 2 do the event or you assign 2/3 drivers to practice... at the end of the day its a series putting teams up against one another. It wasnt any more/less of a team series last time round, except now its about 4.5x bigger.

And for the record (and not specificly aimed at you), I hate this stupid term 'hotlapping' as its being used in this series recently.
'Hotlapping' would be offline HLVC hotlapping, thats the specific term which has been used for the last 5 years to describe this.
'Open Server qualifying' (or whatever you'd want to call it) would be a turn up whenever, do some laps and leave when you feel like it.
And then bog-standard qualifying, where you turn up before the race and qualify there and then.

For some reason this tracker based qualifying system has become termed as 'Hotlapping' which is just confusing to give it the same name as an existing phrase for a completely different event in LFS.

Theres been no 'Hotlapping' of the HLVC kind mentioned in this series to my knowledge (although the lazy use of the term only confuses matters).

[Storm_Cloud]

For bona fide team effort, perhaps you could have one driver steering, another doing the pedals and maybe a third doing the gears (or even a 4th who could press his "Blue Flag noob!!!!!" keybind every so often).

I'm joking BTW :)

[PaulC2K]

I should hope so too, having someone there doing gear changes is silly, just stick it on auto-gears!

Only problem is, im still not worthy of being the 'Blue Flag noob!!!!!' button presser, i'd always mistime it or press the 'Press Ctrl+R for NOS!!!!!' button :(

[Cawwa]

The argumentation is over and now it's voting time, so I wount spill a lot of words with argumentation again.

Just to clearify what I didn't explain proper in my statement that none of the suggestion is good, I ment that suggestion 1 means hotlapping more or less and suggestion two isn't good be course you have to do it before every race and the team mates might very well end up in different divisions.

Besides you guys forgot that in a real team event you need one driver to turn the wheel to the left and another for turn it right as well. There the is the real team effort! ... :D

[millers@home]

Option 1

[Arrow.]

Option 2 it is then

ill be organising a test day asap to make sure it will all go to plan with when we race in August

[Jakg]

I wasn't sure what option to vote for before I heard about your PM. So now I voted for 2 just beacuse I found that PM extremely stupid.

FYI only :)Nikka, you read my mind and voted for the option i was too busy drinking German booze to pick, thanks!

Option 2 it is then

ill be organising a test day asap to make sure it will all go to plan with when we race in AugustYay!

[Arrow.]

I've been trying to get in contact with the man who made the LFS Tracker
WolleT but have had no replies yet.

Would anyone be able to help with this?

[Arrow.]

If we are unable to get ahold of WolleT's LFS tracker we need a backup plan

i was thinking something similiar to my idea on the division sorting
Open 3 servers few weeks before round 1
Example combos:
FWD: Kyoto National Reverse - XFG
RWD: Blackwood GP - GTR
Open wheeler: South City Town - MRT
There will be 3 x 20mins Qualifying sessions on each server
To determine the divisions take fastest lap from each team and from all 3 servers. Add these lap times together as a total this will decide the divisions
from here it will work same as last season 16 teams 32 drivers (2 cars per team)
Same division all 8 rounds

[dodo.ger]

ill see if i can reach wollet, but i cant promise anything.

[Arrow.]

Its ok now,
He was just on holidays :D

We are good to go with option 2 :thumb: