Cutting people up

[Chin Boy]

I have been having problems with seeing / hearing other cars when they are just on my rear quarter and seem to cut them up. I have tried using the "look" keys byt by the time the view has moved round it is often too late. It also makes judging the corner exteremly hard. Does anyone know if it is possible to adjust the angle of the side mirrors to enable a better view of the blind spots.

[Lible]

No, you can`t adjust side mirrors, but you can enable virtual mirror that saws the same that virtual mirrors. You can also move the look-position for better seeing.

[Kryten]

You said "by the time the view has moved round". Sounds like you haven't enabled instant look or whatever it's called. Look for it in options and enable it. That might help a bit.

[ayrton senna 87]

if u dont see them beside u when u turn in, its their fault, they should 'present themselfs' i know im going to get flamed by people saying "this causes many crashes" but thats how it operates for real.

people just need to overtake properly, and if they dont bother to learn stop saying 'u cut me up' or whatever :@ it not your fault man!

[xaotik]

Try the pitspotter (http://koti.mbnet.fi/kegetys/lfs/) app.

[Slartibartfast]

I'm not a gifted passer, but when I make a move, if I'm not side by side at braking marker I watch the other car carefully and back out when neccesary. When being challenged, and there is any question of how close my rival is, I leave enough room for both of us to make the corner.

Things to try:

Instant look (Options>View>Instant Look>Instant)

Moving your overhead mirror to center/top on each individual car. (While in car. Options>View>Mirror Offset Lateral and Mirror Offset Vertical)

Virtual mirror on formulas. (Options>Display>Mirror Mode>Virtual)

Practice "looking". It gets easier as time goes on.

Race online a lot.

Find a group of racers that you like, race with them a lot, learn thier styles.

See if you like 'Look Function'. It can help in certain situations, but does take a little bit of 'feel' from the car. (Options>View>Look Function)


Sounds to me like you're on the right track.

[ajp71]

if u dont see them beside u when u turn in, its their fault, they should 'present themselfs' i know im going to get flamed by people saying "this causes many crashes" but thats how it operates for real.

people just need to overtake properly, and if they dont bother to learn stop saying 'u cut me up' or whatever :@ it not your fault man!

If your aware of a car you don't turn in on it and hope it will back off. IRL when two cars clip each other like this it's considered a racing incident and no one starts bitching.

[ayrton senna 87]

its usually the driver who does the overtaking and gets 'turned in on' in LFS that does the bitching

[Hoellsen]

And at times he is right to do so. When he is next to you, you shouldnt turn in on him. :)

[P5YcHoM4N]

I get that a lot. Like today I could see some guy in my right mirrow every now and then, and could hear his engine. But when I go to turn I can't swing around to see where he is or I'd run off, then he runs into my rear quarts, sending me spinning >.< So damn annoying, some people get way to close in corners.

It's just impossable to always look at your sides/back and keep racing. There just isn't time, or road to do it. People take too many stupid risks because "It's only a game", and then everyone ends up spinning.

[ajp71]

I think tangling wheels on open wheeled cars would actually reduce the carnage, as you have to be disiplined or you will never finish a race.

[mrodgers]

Try the pitspotter (http://koti.mbnet.fi/kegetys/lfs/) app.
I throw a BIG second on that. I wish everyone would use it. I love it and usually never have to look left and right to see if anyone is there. I find it very accurate too. I still look left/right, but now it's more to see how close they are. Pitspotter already tells me there is someone there. I loose less concentration on up ahead when looking left/right because I'm not checking to see if there is anyone, just a quick glance to note where they are.

[speedfreak227]

could someone post an in car screen shot using this pitspotter please?

i'm curious what it does.

speedfreak227

[Lola Popeye]

not anything you'll see from a screenshot :) it basically tells you if you have a car left or right, if your clear etc. :)

[kel64]

You said "by the time the view has moved round". Sounds like you haven't enabled instant look or whatever it's called. Look for it in options and enable it. That might help a bit.

Indeed, thats the most helpful thing to do. I often press the button just for a split second several times when someone is close so I can watch the road ahead and whre opponents are at the same time :tilt:

[Hoellsen]

I get that a lot. Like today I could see some guy in my right mirrow every now and then, and could hear his engine.

Sounds like you should have left room.

[Slartibartfast]

Try the pitspotter (http://koti.mbnet.fi/kegetys/lfs/) app.
Man. That thing is LOUD!!!

How do you turn it down?

[deggis]

In my opinion the look left/right thing is better than in other games. In most games looking left/right just makes the camera turn only ~45 degrees which is totally useless. LFS it's 90 degrees so I can see much better what's out there.

[al heeley]

Traffic-awareness is all part of learning race skills, in real life as well as in LFS. There is no substitute for 2 things:
1) experience
2) Common sense

[JohnPenn]

At the braking /turn-in point for a corner the car in front has the right to the raceline, I try to drive with this is mind, always look across if the car is ahead of me the line is his enjoy:)



John

[ajp71]

As Al said common sense is the most important thing to use, unfortunatley in LFS there are no side effects to crashing.

How on earth people can race with a spotter I have no clue. I can cope with it (just) for oval racing in N2003 (although I normally turn it off and use common sense), but with circuit racing? It'd be easier racing with music than it is with someone shouting in your ear.

[tehSnaile]

Traffic-awareness is all part of learning race skills, in real life as well as in LFS. There is no substitute for 2 things:
1) experience
2) Common sense
Word!

[axus]

Reading the thread topic made me assume that you are wanting to chop and dice people into tiny blocks over the internet using LFS - sure made me laugh. :D

[-wes-]

As Al said common sense is the most important thing to use, unfortunatley in LFS there are no side effects to crashing.

How on earth people can race with a spotter I have no clue. I can cope with it (just) for oval racing in N2003 (although I normally turn it off and use common sense), but with circuit racing? It'd be easier racing with music than it is with someone shouting in your ear.

I always set it too text only. It was very helpfull when I started out but it made mistakes sometimes, and in the end I built up a sixth sense for the position of cars around me.

That sim had 43 cars on track, 3 and 4 wide for minutes at a time so a spotter was needed. anyone with less that a year driving it would make lots of mistakes even with the spotter so..

just have to pay attention and practice.

[Hoellsen]

At the braking /turn-in point for a corner the car in front has the right to the raceline,

That is the most common misbelief. There is no such thing as "right to the racing line". There is only respect to the other driver's line. If someone is next to you (and next to you I consider having the bumper about the position of the driver of the other car) then both cars gotta leave each other enough room to make it through the turn. Yes, this will involve going through there at lower speed.

[Gunn]

Even side mirrors will not reveal blind spots, a head turn is the only way to check all angles in real life, and in LFS.

[DratsaB]

Try the pitspotter (http://koti.mbnet.fi/kegetys/lfs/) app.

Yes, this is one of the most basic yet most practical mods for LFS, Everyone should be using this. It has saved me from many an accident and it is totaly dependable, when it says "Clear" you can guarentee its safe.

[P5YcHoM4N]

That is the most common misbelief. There is no such thing as "right to the racing line". There is only respect to the other driver's line. If someone is next to you (and next to you I consider having the bumper about the position of the driver of the other car) then both cars gotta leave each other enough room to make it through the turn. Yes, this will involve going through there at lower speed.
You can only do that if you can see them. And as I use right hand drive, I can only really see down the right side of the car, which leaves me pretty much blind down my left side, I try and make it easier for me when turning as I turned on head move with axis, which gives me a little view of the mirrow, but usally too late to do anything.

[NotAnIllusion]

You can only do that if you can see them. And as I use right hand drive, I can only really see down the right side of the car, which leaves me pretty much blind down my left side, I try and make it easier for me when turning as I turned on head move with axis, which gives me a little view of the mirrow, but usally too late to do anything.

I'm going to disagree with you here, I reckon you don't need to see the car to know where it is. It isn't too difficult to guess the racing line your opponent will take when you can't see him/her in the mirrors. Not seeing the opponent already means s/he is not directly behind you, nor on the side you can see from the mirror without turning your head. This leaves you with three possibilities:
1) s/he is beside you and is going to make a realistic attempt at a pass, so you drive accordingly
2) s/he is too far behind to make a passing attempt and will back off to take the correct line
3) s/he is too far, will go for it and crash into you regardless of whether or not you leave space

Tight turns are an exception because there is more of a chance s/he will try to outbrake you, and this is why it's handy to always be aware of what your opponent is doing well b4 the curve so you can predict what can happen and there is no rush checking the mirrors 1m b4 it's too late.

just my humble opinion of course.. :)

[XCNuse]

Try the pitspotter (http://koti.mbnet.fi/kegetys/lfs/) app.
not to be the devils advocat here or anything... but i tell you what, after using this for about a week (or less) i really had to just get rid of it, it screwed me up SO MUCH.. if your going to use that program, use it but always double check, not only does it sometimes not work.. but you still have no idea how close they are or anything, for the week that i used it, i became so reliant on it that i just turned my mirrors off for the sake of FPS! .. baad idea..

[NotAnIllusion]

I think just the idea of the pitspotter helping out is sadistically raping the whole idea of you driving a racing sim.. and when it leads to turning off the mirrors for FPS there's clearly a prob (First time I heard of this while driving on a server I almost went ballistic too lol :P). It's relying on completely unrealistic helps to race and in my personal opinion takes the fun out of racing other people.

As they say "A good driver never stops learning", getting to know your way around other cars is just one part of the business :)

if your going to use that program, use it but always double check, not only does it sometimes not work.. but you still have no idea how close they are or anything
Anyone using pitspotter please take the hint and learn to turn your head, in the long run it really helps.

I wonder what wud happen if a major pitspotter user wud go to a m8's or a LAN party and drive a few races on a system w/o pitspotter.. ->

[DratsaB]

I can drive with or with out pitspotter just fine. And it has never caused me to have a crash due to it being inaccurate.

You dont rely just on pit spotter and switch off mirrors if you your using it, thats a bit mad if you ask me (no offence :) ) . Its a useful tool, more so on some servers than others (eg Kyoto Ring -FO8s).

I dont see why anyone should have a problem with it, or consider it an unfair aid. As far as im concerned, with the amount of accidents happening online, due to lag, new drivers or whatever, anything that helps stop silly accidents (or help me keep my distance from some dangerous erratic driver) is more than welcome.

I would consider the Help options included in the game or the ability to use External/NonCockpit Views while racing (all of which I have turned off) to be more exploitative than this mod

[mrodgers]

I was going to say the same about the pitspotter. I don't turn my mirrors off or not look beside me. What the pitspotter does is lets you know when a car breaks the plane of your back bumper. So then you know his front corner is past your rear corner and you know to leave him room to avoid an accident. It is an early warning until you can see him when you look. You can't see another car if they are not up to your door. So, they could be at your rear quarterpanel and you wouldn't know it (without pitspotter). I find the mod very accurate to. As soon as I hear "clear" I know I can pull infront or behind someone without tapping him. I have done it many times. As for the comments here about looking beside you in the side mirrors, you can't. The side mirrors display the exact same thing as the center mirror does, which is what is behind you. Once another car is pulled up past your back corner, you can't see him in the mirrors and you can't see him looking left/right until he is up to your door.

If more used the pitspotter mod, then there would be less of the accidents caused by cars being just past the bumper of the car ahead. There is no "right to the line" as someone said already. If there is someone beside you, you must leave them room and they must leave you room. Problem is that you can't see them until they are way up to your door. That is where the mod comes in and shines.

Also, I know the Darrel Waltrip voice is loud and annoying (it is from NR2003 if you didn't know). There is a spotter sound mod out there that uses Jimmy Johnson's spotter for NR2003. If you could find it, then you could replace the wav files with that and it is much less annoying.

Ah, I guess I could just zip them up and post them since I have them. I couldn't replace all of them, but it is much less annoying than Darrel Waltrip. So attached is my wav files zipped up if anyone would like to try them.

[Fonnybone]

There's always someone to come and out-brake you on the inside as you
begin to turn. For some of them, it's their only skill. For others, i imagine
it can be annoying always looking for a spot to pass knowing you are faster.
It's happened to me sometimes and after a while, you just go for it...

Personally, if i follow someone close as a turn approaches, i'll go to
his OUTside and brake early, as the other guy is threshold braking, i
accelerate a bit to the apex getting beside him, on the inside. It's
much easier for me to get the inside coming out of a turn then before
the apex, and much less arrogant imo.

Turn1 of lap1 is a classic case of everyone trying to outbrake others
with some of them not caring wether they can make the turn or not.

Ah yeah, the mirrors, i use 'instant' view and i think it's fine. It's probably
better than my real car actually ;) I turn my head a lot in real life.

[Gunn]

Personally, if i follow someone close as a turn approaches, i'll go to
his OUTside and brake early, as the other guy is threshold braking, i
accelerate a bit to the apex getting beside him, on the inside. It's
much easier for me to get the inside coming out of a turn then before
the apex, and much less arrogant imo.Yep, this is a good technique to master and can also force your opponent into an error or over-defensive action which can open the door for you to skip past. While one guy is losing the bulk of his momentum with threshold braking and restricting his options by taking a defensive line, the following car can get a faster and cleaner run out of the corner. Setting up your opponent for a pass is much better than crossing fingers and barging through. More racers should choose their time to pass strategically rather than go for it at the first opportunity.

When a car disappears from your mirrors, quickly check left and right to find their position. Combined with sound it is not too hard to know where they are relative to your car. It can take some practice to get used to the head turn but it works well enough I think. I used to go off line with the head turn but now I can do it without any errors, practice I guess. By touching the button very quickly I can get a half-glance left or right which is often enough to see your opponent and takes a fraction of a second to complete.

[Gentlefoot]

Also, I've found that when I'm patient and wait behind someone instead of trying to outbrake them at the next turn, they often make a mistake and you get to just cruise past them. I followed a guy for two laps of five. He was slightly faster than me in most parts of the circuit but I managed to keep him in sight. Then, on the last corner of the race he spins and I cruise past.

[Fonnybone]

Yes, indeed. I'll usually pressure the guy ahead into making a mistake.

Getting REALLY close to his tail right before his braking point makes most
people nervous and hesitate to brake hard. I always make SURE i have
enough room so i don't hit him when he brakes though. After a few turns,
most people will eventually go wide and that's when i'm right there on his
inside. Also, sometimes when a slower guy won't move over, i'll gently
tap his rear bumper right before the brake markers...naughty naughty...

I'm not the fastest guy out there that's for sure, but i AM consistent
and pretty good at anticipating, as i am in real life. Combined, this
has giving me many top3 against faster people. I had a great time last
night in an FO8 oval race, i grabbed 3rd by drafting at the very last stretch,
2 races in a row. In one of those races, we 'played' around with each other's
draft for the whole race until i managed to pull away JUST enough to steal
his 3rd place and keep my advance, 1 lap from the finish, lol, sorry, i'm still
'high' about it lol .

I haven't been so happy of my performance in a long time. I was a bit proud
there ;) That said, i didn't need to hit, intimidate or block anyone.
Stealing 3rd position a few meters from the finish line was insulting enough
i think lol

[Chin Boy]

Blimey! Seems as if there are a few points of view on this.

I have tried the pit spotter and like it a lot. I only really need it on the Oval with the V8's as this is where people are in the blind spot for longest. It is not as benificial in normal races.

One thig I try to do now (especially on the oval) is to keep a constant line if there is somone close on my inside. If they get past me on the corner I can quickly tuck in behind them for a tow down the next straight and get back in front for the next corner.

Thanks to all for the advice.

[mrodgers]

One thing I noticed about using the pitspotter mod at the oval is NOT EVERYONE USES IT!!! The other night I was on the oval in the GTR's and got underneath someone. Of course the pitspotter kicked in telling me "car outside". Problem was I am use to using it to tell me I'm getting a corner under someone that I forgot about them not using it and they turned down into me sending us both into a spin ( I forget who it was now). Well, of course they got a little upset (well, not really upset) and said something. I responded that they turned into me. But of course it was my fault. Looking back at it, I knew where he was because of the pitspotter, but he didn't know I was there. It can get you into a bind when you forget that they don't know what you do because of the pitspotter telling you. Just a caution warning for anyone who is using it, don't forget that you still need to be up to their door for them to know you are there.

[lucky]

I'm not a gifted passer, but when I make a move, if I'm not side by side at braking marker I watch the other car carefully and back out when neccesary.
That means that you braked too early. :D
Now for real: if you go for overtake, you brake at the latest possible moment (so to outbrake other guy). That means that yo annot slow down even more to back out ...
Solution is simple: alway leave room on the inside if you even suspect taht someone might be there (sam thing goes on corner exit on the outside) ... Side by side racing is fun ...

[lucky]

I get that a lot. Like today I could see some guy in my right mirrow every now and then, and could hear his engine. But when I go to turn I can't swing around to see where he is or I'd run off, then he runs into my rear quarts, sending me spinning >.< So damn annoying, some people get way to close in corners.
Then just leave room on the inside ...

[Slartibartfast]

That means that you braked too early. :D
Now for real: if you go for overtake, you brake at the latest possible moment (so to outbrake other guy). That means that yo annot slow down even more to back out ...
Solution is simple: alway leave room on the inside if you even suspect taht someone might be there (sam thing goes on corner exit on the outside) ... Side by side racing is fun ...

So true. What I think I meant was, If I am not *going* to be side by side at the brake marker. Leaving room is always the funnest way to race. Except for when some alien goes 10mph quicker around a corner than I do even though he's hugging the curb from entry to exit.

[tailing]

I think unless you have a significant overlap the onus is on you not to take out the leading cars rear quarter. Of course if you're the leading car and someone is close behind then it often pays to take a slightly wider line to be on the safe side but you shouldn't have to always be doing this because people are too ambitious when overtaking.

[v4forlife]

in my opinion, however highly looked upon, i think that its the passers duty to get by, and as long as the person in front doesnt make sudden and abvious attempts to cut someone up, then it is the passers fault.

[johnmcaulay]

That is the most common misbelief. There is no such thing as "right to the racing line". There is only respect to the other driver's line. If someone is next to you (and next to you I consider having the bumper about the position of the driver of the other car) then both cars gotta leave each other enough room to make it through the turn. Yes, this will involve going through there at lower speed.
I agree with Hoellsen on the racing line point, it always makes me nervous when people talk about the racing line and braking points in absolute terms. You will almost never have exactly the same line or braking markers as someone else, especially if you are driving a different car. For example the Fxr and the Fzr are totally different when braking and even in their line into some corners.

I also agree with the position, it is also however the responsability of who ever is overtaking when going inside to make sure they have a chance of pulling it off without just sliding out wide and sending both cars off the track.

Most important thing is if driving a different car from the person who either you are trying to overtake or defend against be careful and watch for them braking earlier, later or braking more, and their line.

Here ends my rant :-)