Round 5 clarification thread

[tomylee]

I wondering if the chicane stays original or if there will be stuff put at?
Just to know for the training of the line.

[DeadWolfBones]

The race is at KY National. I assume the chicane you're talking about is the one coming onto/off of the oval at KY GP Long, in which case it won't be an issue for this race.:)

[BenjiMC]

round 5 is at FE gold lol i think you mean the first chicane? i'm not going to add anything there, could you imagine it on race restarts if i did?

[srdsprinter]

The race is at KY National. I assume the chicane you're talking about is the one coming onto/off of the oval at KY GP Long, in which case it won't be an issue for this race.:)
priceless :)

FE3 FTW

[DeadWolfBones]

/removes foot from mouth.

:shy:

[r4ptor]

Haha ;)

What is a "restart"? It's mentioned in another thread as well, and somehow I don't accosiate it with a shift+r and /w restart type restart.

[BenjiMC]

restart being when the race goes green after an SC period:thumb:

[r4ptor]

Ah yes, of cause.. I had my mind locked into only considering the first 2 laps ;)

[tomylee]

OK.

I don't know what the problem is with a restart? But anyway.

[Humbleridderen]

4.2) Drivers must not overtake any cars before passing the start/finish line. However, it is allowed for a driver to draw up alongside another. Overtaking before crossing the line will result in a drive-through penalty (hereafter DT) if caught by the marshals, or a one (1) lap penalty in the final standings if protested after the race.

I assume that´s correct, what´s being said here, that it´s not the pole car, who should pass the line first, but your own car.

I just think there should be done something about the sleeping drivers and drivers who slows down dramatically or has an accident before the start finish/line. Then you are stuck behing this car or could accidently pass the car.

In three of the races so far, we have been experiencing this and it gave us a great disadvantage from the start. F.ex. see in this race DBA Allan Didriksen totally sleeping in front of us (unity) and a very big gap was created to the first part of the field.

It should be allowed to pass in those cases as long as it´s very clear....or the old rule should be the valid again, that it´s the pole position car, who should pass before the others cars could pass each other.

If a team has two cars, they could also misuse this rule to give their primary car an advantage, if their secondary car helped slow down their rivals.

[r4ptor]

The pace/safety car does not continue that far. It either takes a detour, or enters the pits.. as it should.

Besides, the flag (green txt message) works better - if you had to wait for the leading car to cross a certain point, then the car behind could do a well timed false start and gain a position easily.

I understand the frustration with drivers who build up a gap, but I think it should be up to the marshals to judge - but only when the gap have an effect ones the race restarts. A gap in the 1st or 2nd sector doesn't really mean much, but a gap in the last sector is pretty dull.

I don't agree with passing when its clear.. because when exactly is it clear? Your view on the subject is possibly different than mine... it's too subjective this way.

[srdsprinter]

....

+1. Something really should be done about the "sleepers". Once its green, the race should be 'on', if you're not ready you can Really hurt the cars behind you if they aren't allowed to pass. :shrug:

[tomylee]

But thats racing :shrug:

[srdsprinter]

In racing on a start/restart, if the top two cars are 10 seconds ahead at the start, the green flag would be waved off and they'd try again.

Also once the green is out, if someone is not getting up to race pace for mechanical or other reasons, people have the right to pass them before the start/finish.

[DeadWolfBones]

Yeah, the rule should probably have a clause saying that if the car ahead does not properly accelerate (or crashes), you have the right to pass before the line.

The idea here was that "when the leader crosses the line" is very much open to interpretation for guys who are well back in the pack, whereas "when you cross the line" is very specific. Plus, it's easier for marshals to use the line as a reference point to spot jump starts than it is to keep an eye on the entire field at once.

edit: I should probably say here that I helped Benji to rewrite this iteration of the rules, and that if you guys have any suggestions/comments we're very open to ideas. It's very much a work in progress (and probably will be for the entire season).

[srdsprinter]

When we were given the green flag going into the final turns at WE, we weren't even at the regular braking point. There was simply way way too much "green flag" time without being able to pass (2 turns & ~10+ seconds at race pace), at the mercy of the car in front of you.

I believe it would be helpful for:
a) Green Flag means race
b) Single File w/ limiters until Green Flag message
c) No Green Flag until leaders well onto front straight/ under start finish.

Even without the first two, it would be a Lot more fair for everyone if c) was the case.

IMO, these changes would take away much of the issues/controvesy of the starts/restarts.

[DeadWolfBones]

I'd thought about that too, and I'm leaning toward agreeing.

[Astro [ BJRL ]]

Not that it's a contribution to this thread, but I'd like to mention it seems natural under full course yellow to be allowed to overtake the car(s) in front of you, should they 'leave the track' - meaning crash mildly or simply unfortunately gets on the grass, beeing out of the track.
This restart thing, has a strange twist in Nascar - one is allowed to overtake cars in front when first one crosses the line - but only on the right, but then again, we're talking ovals here, a different matter, so this is not a sugstion.
What COULD be considered ( just for entertainmaint or fun ?) is THE LUCKY DOG rule ???

[DeadWolfBones]

;462478']Not that it's a contribution to this thread, but I'd like to mention it seems natural under full course yellow to be allowed to overtake the car(s) in front of you, should they 'leave the track' - meaning crash mildly or simply unfortunately gets on the grass, beeing out of the track.

This is a good idea and we'll take it under consideration. It would have to be their own fault, though. i.e., they're swerving to try and keep the tires warm (this doesn't work, btw ;]) and they spin it off. If they're taken out by someone else they should be able to re-join in position.

[Leadtail]

I like the "Lucky Dog" rule, American Le Mans has it.:thumb: The more cars on the lead lap the better, I say.

As for restarts, whats the above mentioned series rules for restarts? Pass on green flag or start/finish line?
a) Green Flag means race
b) Single File w/ limiters until Green Flag message
c) No Green Flag until leaders well onto front straight/ under start finish.Might be the easiest way to do it though.:shrug:

[srdsprinter]

Rules are ~in a state of flux, as of right now no pass till start finish. We're kind of discussing how things would/would not work better.

Edit -> For Race Start -> no passing till start/finish line
For Restarts -> Green Means Go Go Go

[Humbleridderen]

In racing on a start/restart, if the top two cars are 10 seconds ahead at the start, the green flag would be waved off and they'd try again.

Also once the green is out, if someone is not getting up to race pace for mechanical or other reasons, people have the right to pass them before the start/finish.

Agree on that, but maybe say, there has to go f.ex 2 seconds before you are allowed to start passing a car which is not following the other cars. Because it has to be clear that it´s about a sleeping driver or someone with mechanical problem...maybe pitlimiter button, which is not working or a mild/hard crash with wall or spin or going into the grass.
If you cheat with this you can be given a penalty.

[srdsprinter]

This intrinsic confusion just makes me believe that you should just be able to race when the green comes out. I've seen many passes before start finish just because once you get the green its not really possible for someone to just stay in line behind a slow car while the leaders take off.

[Humbleridderen]

I don't agree with passing when its clear.. because when exactly is it clear? Your view on the subject is possibly different than mine... it's too subjective this way.

Yes, it´s subjective, as many other choices in racing are so :)...but rules could help to make it difficult to cheat with those things. Remember we already have penalties for passing before it´s allowed.

[BenjiMC]

i'll look over all of your suggestions on this rule with DWB. As it stands on restarts you are allowed to pass before the S/F line and also you are allowed to pass if there is a sleeping car on race starts and restarts

[Richard Torp]

Why talking about cheating? I dont think that ANYBODY will cheat, and if they want to cheat there are always a chance to do it no matter how many rules you have.

If a car was 2 sec slower than others to restart the race..why should that be a cheater?? Maybe he is just slower to react that some of the others, but its part of real racing too. I seen it in F1 and other series... So stop talking about cheating all the time please..

[Humbleridderen]

Why talking about cheating? I dont think that ANYBODY will cheat, and if they want to cheat there are always a chance to do it no matter how many rules you have.

If a car was 2 sec slower than others to restart the race..why should that be a cheater?? Maybe he is just slower to react that some of the others, but its part of real racing too. I seen it in F1 and other series... So stop talking about cheating all the time please..

You definitely misunderstand. The "cheater" is not the one, who is sleeper! The "cheater" ..(don´t take the word to seriously) could be the impatient driver, who can´t wait 2 seconds to overtake a slow reaction driver, as you said.

[tomylee]

Coming back to the chicane after T1. I would suggest that we put stiff tyres there for the race. We did have that in a DTM race where everybody drove through that chicane with a high speed while touching the tyres which fall down on the track and the following car crashed in it and sometimes even spun because of it. To make it fair it would be nice to put something there that everybody has to slow down and take the chicane in a clean way.

[srdsprinter]

This is hard to do, because:
a) a tire barrier will spill onto the track, ruining the line for people behind.
b) a concrete barrier will exploit the physics flaws and destroy cars.

[BenjiMC]

i'll do some experiment with different barriers there and see what works best.

[srdsprinter]

Just curious, but what exactly is the goal of modifying the chicane?

All curbs + grass = FXR advantage

Some curbs + grass = ???

No curbs + barriers = Broken race cars... :(

[tomylee]

This is hard to do, because:
a) a tire barrier will spill onto the track, ruining the line for people behind.

that is the problem in the moment and with something hard there it would not happening

[srdsprinter]

The problem then is the physics flaws with the hard barriers, sending you flying through the air. Broken Suspension that early in the lap and your race is over.

Its not like this chicane is the same as the KY3R one, that obviously needs something to prevent cutting.

[I really don't know] What is the goal of moddifying this FE3 Chicane? [/I really don't know]

[DeadWolfBones]

To be honest, I don't think there's a way to change it that makes it significantly better than it is right now. Changing to hard barriers would probably result in more race-ending crashes than loose tires would.

And again, we should focus on driving better and NOT hitting the barriers rather than trying to cater to those who do hit barriers.

If you see some tires flying around, slow down a bit. If you can't control your car through the chicane and end up hitting the barriers, slow down too. Problem solved!

[srdsprinter]

Agreed, but it is a bit of a blind corner on entry with ~high committment

[DeadWolfBones]

It's not an entirely blind corner. There's time to react. But yes, it's difficult.

[tomylee]

Sorry but are you able to rea my postings :scratchch

You can go through that chicane with a high speed. What happens is that you will touch the tyres. Your car wil not get damaged but mostly the tyres you touch will fall down and the car just behind you will crash into them and often spinn and stuff.
So I think it will make more sense that the car which is driving too fast and can't handle the chicane without touching any tyres get's damaged and not the car that is behind and can't anything about it.

[BenjiMC]

i guess something to stop the tyres falling onto the road then?

[tomylee]

:nod:

[AppiePils]

Coming back to the chicane after T1. I would suggest that we put stiff tyres there for the race. We did have that in a DTM race where everybody drove through that chicane with a high speed while touching the tyres which fall down on the track and the following car crashed in it and sometimes even spun because of it. To make it fair it would be nice to put something there that everybody has to slow down and take the chicane in a clean way.


It wasn't that bad in DTM Tomy; the majority of those crashes were due people incapable of dealing with that chicane. Modifying the chicane is a no-go (IMO).
The room is too limited to actual make modifications and the tires give you at least the possibility to go through the chicane with two cars - which actually happens.
Crashing in that chicane has more to do with being a unprepared racer, rather than fairness.

[BenjiMC]

i agree, there really isn't much you can do about it, so i'm not going to bother modifying that chicane.

[tomylee]

It wasn't that bad in DTM Tomy; the majority of those crashes were due people incapable of dealing with that chicane. Modifying the chicane is a no-go (IMO).
The room is too limited to actual make modifications and the tires give you at least the possibility to go through the chicane with two cars - which actually happens.
Crashing in that chicane has more to do with being a unprepared racer, rather than fairness.
Maybe not in the NA division but it looked a bit different in the EU.
I don't understand what the problem is with the modification of the chicane. On the CTRA servers the did it all the time and it was quit good over there.

I don't talk about somebody who is to stupid to drive through that chicane and is crashing his own car. I talk more about the situation that somebody is doing stupid thing and the car next behind has to pay for it.

I mean look how people go through that chicane, with what kind of speed. Where is the problem to break down and after it to speed up again.....?????
IMO this is one of the stupidest chicanes in LFS and ain't realistic at all.

But anyway, was just a thought :tilt:

[BenjiMC]

The only thing i can do to stop the tyres falling onto the track is place concrete barriers there. I tested with AI and the AI managed to overtake safely through there so i see no reason why human drivers cannot. I will anounce a test race for about 30 minutes which will use the modification to the chicane. If all goes well then we can use it for the race. The only thing against this that i have and DWB is that the tryes faling on track are part of the race are they not?

[tomylee]

You ever seen it in reality :tilt:

But anyway, I will not hit on that all the time. It was just a thought I had.

[BenjiMC]

Thats why i said to do a test race, maybe two. one without the barrier and one with the barrier.

[r4ptor]

Having watched quiet a bit from the replay of the previous race made me think that we need few things in the rules.

Some of these have already been mentioned, but I'm not sure in what degree or how much of these - I've spend loads of time going through the replay and writing (and reading) the report, so please excuse me for not being in the mood for doing some more reading.

- The car(s) involved in an incident, or in any other way causing the safety car to deploy should not take part in the formation. In this case a driver had a puncture and was driving slower, meaning he was holding back other drivers, including Dynamic Racing who were on 2nd at that time.

This rule should however only apply to those who can't drive safely due to damage, but especially if the driver will be entering the pits because of the incident.

- when a car limps back the pits, this driver should be required to do everything in his power to avoid slowing others down, while of cause being on the track. The driver should also be required to drive off the racing line, except during turns where crossing the line is necessary.

- a driver causing, or getting too close to cause an incident while the safety car is out should receive a severe penalty. Since multiple cars are allowed in IGTC, exploiting this to for instance take out the opponent is a possibility. I recommend something like a 1 lap penalty and a warning. After 2 or maybe 3 warnings, that car should be banned for the rest of the season, and the team should not be allowed to enter with another car and a new set of drivers.

Even a slight touch should technically speaking be enough to hand out penalties and warnings.

- if a incident similar to the one on Westhill during a SC lap occur, marshals should either pay close attention to the queue order, so the places can be resumed correctly - or ignored them completely and let the cars resume naturally, but without disengaging the limiter.

In the previous race the leader was allowed to resume his place, however some (didn't look) may have gotten mixed around - this approach isn't completely fair.

- chatting isn't allowed, and especially the marshals should remember that the race isn't over till the very last driver crosses the finish line, before congratulating etc. It's disrespectful and distracting for those who are still racing.

[DeadWolfBones]

Your third point has already been addressed, but we'll take the others under advisement. Thanks!

[r4ptor]

Your third point has already been addressed, but we'll take the others under advisement. Thanks!

Yeh, that one I knew about - still added it though :)

[srdsprinter]

About time to start the team attendance confirmation thread? :)

[BenjiMC]

i'll start it one week prior to the race, which is on the 21st

[srdsprinter]

Starts/Restarts, highlights from the rules:
See Below!

[DeadWolfBones]

We've decided after much discussion that it's more beneficial for both drivers and marshals if we dispense with the no passing before the line rule entirely. Therefore, passing will be allowed as soon as the green is shown. The green, however, will not be shown until the field has entered the main straight.

[srdsprinter]

Thanks for the update :thumb:

[BenjiMC]

I'm guessing the change isn't in the rules on the website yet? I'll get on that.

[srdsprinter]

Here is a potential loophole regarding passing under Full Course Cautions:

6) When the SC is deployed, the track is under a full-course yellow condition. As such, you are to cease racing for position ....

"Racing for position" leaves the door open for argument over passing someone on a different lap as you. (lapping/unlapping)

EDIT -> I.E. Unlapping youself from the leader letting you get by the SC could be quite advantageous.

[BenjiMC]

Thanks for that, i'll change it now

[srdsprinter]

The IGTC strives to realistically simulate real GTR-style endurance races.
In the event of a flipped car landing on its roof, on the track:

1) Should the driver instantly go to Spectate (Shift-S) as this is unrealistic?
- or -
2) Should the Full Course Caution be shown as would happen in reality?
(and subsequently the car only be 'removed' once the 'course workers' could under SC)

[KSheppard]

Round 5 TS server IP???

[BenjiMC]

If your car flips you should wait for the Safety car and then Shift+S.

Marshalls will be on TS at this IP: 81.171.96.72:8867 provided Danny (leifde) can set it up?

[Leifde]

I will make a room for the marshalls. :)

IP: 81.171.96.72:8867

[BenjiMC]

Thanks danny.

[AppiePils]

If your car flips you should wait for the Safety car and then Shift+S.

Marshalls will be on TS at this IP: 81.171.96.72:8867 provided Danny (leifde) can set it up?

After shift+s you are allowed to continue, or not? (and will you be given a +1 lap penalty or...?

[DeadWolfBones]

Benji, if I might suggest something...

I dunno if you've used it, but Ventrilo seems to work much better for me--better sound and less CPU usage--than TS, and I have a Vent server we can use. I can set up a channel for Marshals and pword it if you like.

Let me know.

[srdsprinter]

After shift+s you are allowed to continue, or not? (and will you be given a +1 lap penalty or...?
Shift S is auto DNF as is running out of fuel

- paraphrased from the rules

[AppiePils]

Shift S is auto DNF as is running out of fuel

- paraphrased from the rules

Then, why wait for a safety car? Unnecessary delay is what I call that.

[BenjiMC]

It depends how you look at it. If your going for realism then it's not, it's renacting events from a real race. If you just want a sim race then it's delay. :shrug: It's a tough one to call but i preffer a realistic type of league, all we need now is rain at all the british tracks.

[Leifde]

Alright, our line-up has changed. It'll just be me and Jamie driving now.

Moo Racing - #16 - FXR
Moo.Danny (Leifde)
Moo.S14 DRIFT! (S14 DRIFT)

[N I K I]

what is password? PM me or something

[Weed]

Please could someone PM me the password also. Thanks :thumb:

[BenjiMC]

passwords are being given out now:thumb:

[Leifde]

It seems my TS server is down, sorry about that :(

[BenjiMC]

I guess it's a good job DWB can offer Ventrilo then :D

[AppiePils]

It depends how you look at it. If your going for realism then it's not, it's renacting events from a real race. If you just want a sim race then it's delay. :shrug: It's a tough one to call but i preffer a realistic type of league, all we need now is rain at all the british tracks.

If you want realism, you push the car to a position next to the track and don't allow shift+S at all. You can't say 'realism' if you involve shift+s in any state.

What you get now is a useless safety car situation as no damaged car is on the track. In reality the would never send out the safety car if that was the case.

Second note, the additional concrete blocks at the chicane cause unnecessary damage. Although I can understand the additions (till a certain degree) you may want to consider either removing, or replacing the last block on the far left side of the block starting at the right.

[Leifde]

I remember this issue came up but I've forgotten it again, is only one driver from each team allowed to qualify?

[DeadWolfBones]

I remember this issue came up but I've forgotten it again, is only one driver from each team allowed to qualify?


Yes, that's correct. Only one driver per team.

[baSh0r]

There is an huge problem with Team Inferno tonight :(

My mate Martin cant participate because his Internet got cut.
Our reserve Driver Steffen has got Problems. He cant drive too.

Sorry but, we cant participate tonight. I am really sorry!!

[DeadWolfBones]

That's a real shame. :(

[BenjiMC]

Thats sucks, Appiepils, i'll look into the barrier issues however in the test race there were no issues there. On the rolled cars issues, you raise valid points which is why i agree with you on the issue.

[srdsprinter]

If you want realism, you push the car to a position next to the track and don't allow shift+S at all. You can't say 'realism' if you involve shift+s in any state.

What you get now is a useless safety car situation as no damaged car is on the track. In reality the would never send out the safety car if that was the case.


If a car rolled onto the track, a full course caution would come out.

The safety crews would load the car onto a flat bed and carry it off (shift-s if you will).

[AppiePils]

If a car rolled onto the track, a full course caution would come out.

The safety crews would load the car onto a flat bed and carry it off (shift-s if you will).

Yes, so? In essence it's the same. If a real shift+s was possible no safety car would be released.

[srdsprinter]

Yes, so? In essence it's the same. If a real shift+s was possible no safety car would be released.

I see what your saying, and yes, since there is the ability to shift-s it could easily go and not disrupt the race. Somewhat, I can agree that artificial disruption of the race is not the best idea.

On the other hand, one of the neat things about the IGTC is the premise of the realism. Where an event would occur on track, the real life coresponding action would follow.

Does it make the IGTC seem artificially realistic (oxymoron)? I don't know, but it does seperate the IGTC from any other league that i know of.

[Humbleridderen]

Rules:

"4) Races are started behind a safety car, driven at pit limiter speed, in single file. All drivers must use their pit limiters on the rolling starts, and must leave a gap of at least one (1) car-length to the car ahead. When the pole car reaches the final corner, the marshals will throw the green flag. Once the green flag has been displayed, drivers may release the pit speed limiter and accelerate carefully.

6) When the SC is deployed, the track is under a full-course yellow condition. As such, you are to cease racing for position, fall in line, and gently lower speed until you catch up to the leaders. Once drivers have caught the pack and slowed to SC speed, they must engage the pit limiter."

There were some cars driving witout pitlimiter under full course yellow, which I think helped to faster overtake when the green flag was given..meaning giving positions

[R.Kolz]

Pls. upload a replay of quali and race somewhere and I´ll do the stats.

[DeadWolfBones]

Rules:

"4) Races are started behind a safety car, driven at pit limiter speed, in single file. All drivers must use their pit limiters on the rolling starts, and must leave a gap of at least one (1) car-length to the car ahead. When the pole car reaches the final corner, the marshals will throw the green flag. Once the green flag has been displayed, drivers may release the pit speed limiter and accelerate carefully.

6) When the SC is deployed, the track is under a full-course yellow condition. As such, you are to cease racing for position, fall in line, and gently lower speed until you catch up to the leaders. Once drivers have caught the pack and slowed to SC speed, they must engage the pit limiter."

There were some cars driving witout pitlimiter under full course yellow, which I think helped to faster overtake when the green flag was given..meaning giving positions

This is true. I myself had to disengage the limiter occasionally, because the SC couldn't (or didn't) always maintain limiter speed, and then things would get unevenly spaced out when people sped up. It was kind of a mess out there.

[N I K I]

You are also going left-right to keep some heat in tires, so speed is going down, then you have to off limiter to come back whit others :shrug:

[srdsprinter]

You are also going left-right to keep some heat in tires, so speed is going down, then you have to off limiter to come back whit others :shrug:
Perhaps some thought should be put into this, perhaps:

running within a speed range 47-55mph up until the last sector before green,
where you must get inline and set limiter.

I got brake-checked yesterday by a car while i was under limiter. Perhaps we can revise, or really enforce the current rules?

[Humbleridderen]

Perhaps some thought should be put into this, perhaps:

running within a speed range 47-55mph up until the last sector before green,
where you must get inline and set limiter.

I got brake-checked yesterday by a car while i was under limiter. Perhaps we can revise, or really enforce the current rules?

Something must be done, We lost 2nd position under the last SC period to a car who hadn´ engaged speedlimiter under the last full course yellow at all. When the green flag came, he could faster than us hit the gas pedal and overtake 3 cars right away.

[srdsprinter]

I was able to make a few moves on one of the restarts, but i had my limiter engaged until the Green Flag message was shown.

No Turbo Lag on restarts is an intrinsic advantage the FZR is going to have in those situations.

[r4ptor]

Something must be done, We lost 2nd position under the last SC period to a car who hadn´ engaged speedlimiter under the last full course yellow at all. When the green flag came, he could faster than us hit the gas pedal and overtake 3 cars right away.

You are referring to T.Lass - I was just going through my last 2 stints (only replay I saved), and had a look since it was also mentioned last night. He had his limiter fully engaged throughout the last 3-4 turns - so no cheating what so ever.

I had a look at my stints because I was very confused while racing - I never saw the time differences show up beside the driver names. I dropped to 3rd when I took over and later I was leading with 1 lap down to 2nd - but when T.Lass got closer, I still saw no time differences and I briefly thought that I might be leading with 2 laps - but was puzzled as to where and when I gained that extra lap - I had been driving allot off pace, so this made the puzzle even bigger.

T.Laas finished less than a sec behind me, but LFS wasn't telling me how close behind he was :x

My replay doesn't show it either.

Edit: times showed up as usual when the race started :really:

[R.Kolz]

As Stu already mentioned in another IGTC thread:

"In the SC que, a car with the BLUE FLAG Message will NOT Be Able to See the GREEN FLAG Message!"

As of TDRT´s disconnect I had the blue flag message loats of times as well as under our last SC period and received the /rcm Green Flag later then some other drivers.

Therefore right after the race I briefly commented the IMO T.Lass early restart.
But he didn´t start before "his" green flag was shown.

For the upcoming races a /msg "green flag" would solve this problem.

[DeadWolfBones]

I had a look at my stints because I was very confused while racing - I never saw the time differences show up beside the driver names. I dropped to 3rd when I took over and later I was leading with 1 lap down to 2nd - but when T.Lass got closer, I still saw no time differences and I briefly thought that I might be leading with 2 laps - but was puzzled as to where and when I gained that extra lap - I had been driving allot off pace, so this made the puzzle even bigger.

T.Laas finished less than a sec behind me, but LFS wasn't telling me how close behind he was :x

My replay doesn't show it either.

Edit: times showed up as usual when the race started :really:

There's a bug in LFS when there are driver changes... sometimes the on-track split time differences reset so that it looks like you're hours ahead or behind of the guy in front of you. I believe Scawen's aware of it and that there are fixes on the way.

edit: There are definitely some issues with giving room when behind the SC/waiting for restart, though. I had NIKI behind me on one restart where he was bumping into the back of my car before the green flew. Because he was hitting me, I got flustered and when the green actually did fly I hit my right look button rather than my pit limiter button, which only made him run into me harder for a second or two. No real damage done, but there should have been much more room between us (and I was going to let him go anyway).

[srdsprinter]

Yeah, i'd imagine a bump or to is inevitable, but thats violation of the 1 car-length minimum spacing rule, is it not?

6.4) During a SC period drivers must leave a distance of at least one (1) car length to the car ahead and engage the pit limiter. When the green flag is flown, the SC period and full-course yellow are ended and drivers may disengage the pit limiter and resume racing.

[Humbleridderen]

You are referring to T.Lass - I was just going through my last 2 stints (only replay I saved), and had a look since it was also mentioned last night. He had his limiter fully engaged throughout the last 3-4 turns - so no cheating what so ever

I have seen more than the 3-4 last turns, where he had controlled the speed more than just before. Before those 3-4 laps, under full course yellow, the speed was going up (more than 80km/h) and down all the time and I think he only controlled the speed with his food in the last turns...and i´ sure it helkp to start pushing without disengaging the speed limiter first.

I just mention this, because, this is important to know exactly what is legal and what is not. I could have defended my position much better, if I knew that it was ok to lift of the speed limiter before the green flag. (but the rules says otherwise). Earlier there were also a Cp car doing the same thing, but i have not yet checked it on replay.

[r4ptor]

There's a bug in LFS when there are driver changes... sometimes the on-track split time differences reset so that it looks like you're hours ahead or behind of the guy in front of you. I believe Scawen's aware of it and that there are fixes on the way.


:| Good thing I started to suspect something was not right then ;)

I have seen more than the 3-4 last turns, where he had controlled the speed more than just before. Before those 3-4 laps, under full course yellow, the speed was going up (more than 80km/h) and down all the time and I think he only controlled the speed with his food in the last turns...and i´ sure it helkp to start pushing without disengaging the speed limiter first.

I just mention this, because, this is important to know exactly what is legal and what is not. I could have defended my position much better, if I knew that it was ok to lift of the speed limiter before the green flag. (but the rules says otherwise). Earlier there were also a Cp car doing the same thing, but i have not yet checked it on replay.

The rules about the limiter was introduced because ppl had a hard time keeping at safe distance and speeds, as we had lots of bumps (and worse) going on. We've then been told that we are allowed to go off rev limiter to reduce the gap - a driver could theoretically speaking turn it off during the last tiny bit, and claim he was merely trying to reduce the gap, while in fact he would sort of false start this way - but it would IMO be too late for this, and therefor not allowed.

T.Lass did nothing wrong. He was going at a steady speed with the rev limiter engaged for quiet some distance before the flag went green.

I was doing the same thing up ahead - I zig zagged + safety car was driving a bit faster than rev limiter speed, so I disengaged here and there to catch up.

The other cP driver might have been me when the race first started - I was simply quick to react just like T.Lass was - there really isn't anything else to it.

The limiter is for safety measurements only, and as I mentioned with the example, it could be abused. But nothing like that happened with me and T.Lass.

[srdsprinter]

Perhaps allow clean driving under SC until last sector, then admin message Set Gap and Engage Limiter till Green. Do that and punish all dirty driving under SC, and it should be good i imagine.

[BenjiMC]

The safety car issues were all really down to having to get in a last minute SC driver after BOTH SC drivers had to pull out for this round. The first replacement SC driver obviously didn't quite understand the rules and the second replacement SC driver never quite had the car control, using a gaming pad i guess was the issue there. Hopefully when the official SC driver comes to the next few rounds there won't be all of this confusion.

For taking of the pit limiter that rule could be changed to something a long the lines of only being allowed to take off the limiter when told by an administrator. As DWB said the rules are again going to be adjusted for the next round with a lot of attention on the end of Safety car periods and engaging Pit limiters.

Another thing i wan't to do is get an insim script setup because it's pretty impossibleto enforce these rules with a limited number of marshalls and all of the confusion on track.

[nmanley]

:|
I was doing the same thing up ahead - I zig zagged + safety car was driving a bit faster than rev limiter speed, so I disengaged here and there to catch up.

I believe that it is the intent to not stay with the safety car on the last few turns or sector of the last pace lap so that the safety car may advance ahead of the pack to be CLEAR of the pack on the restart. So, It should be noted that the pit limiter MUST be activated for the last two turns minimum for the field till the green flag is presented. I do NOT agree that the admins have to police all the drivers of the pit limiter use. There is too much crap to keep track of already. ;)

I believe that many, including me, do know know how to file up when the safety car enters the track to pick up the leader. There are advantages to being able to PASS the safety car legally if it has not picked up the leader when you get to the safety car. :) I was told that you do not want to drag your butt around the track until the leader is picked up by the safety car and you fall in behind the forming line. Just like a real endurance event.

[r4ptor]

I believe that it is the intent to not stay with the safety car on the last few turns or sector of the last pace lap so that the safety car may advance ahead of the pack to be CLEAR of the pack on the restart.

True - my limiter was fully engaged during the last 4-5 turns - mostly because I wanted the cars further behind to catch up tbh.

It would be a dirty trick to narrow the gab up to til SC, and at the same time increase it down to the car behind you - even if it's done legally.

[srdsprinter]

Anywho, I'm looking forward to the next cP race report! It will be hard as hell to capture even 1/4th of the maddness that was the 4 hours of FE3!

So Good Luck!

[r4ptor]

Thanks :shy:

[srdsprinter]

Thanks :shy:
Any chance you've been working on this?

They're always my favorite reads :thumb:

[r4ptor]

Any chance you've been working on this?

They're always my favorite reads :thumb:

:)

Haven't had much time.. but I'll have it ready before the end of this week.

[srdsprinter]

either way its cool. I just really enjoy them :)