An idea to how the LX8 could compete with the other GTR cars

[Leprekaun]

hey ppl, I got an idea a few days ago and it made me think that it would be possible for the LX8 to race with the RWD GTR cars. the thing that made think this up is that I thought of how the LRF cars are like. The FZ50 has the power + speed, RAC is in between the 2, and LX6 is light and handles much better through the corners, so I thought, why not if the LX8 were to be lighter than the other GTR cars with less power and handles better than the other GTR cars but not as much speed. I am hoping that the devs consider this because I think it would work out really well :D.

[L(Oo)ney]

The thing that made think this up is that I thought of how the LRF cars are like.

Its LFS, not LRF.. ?

Dont see why all cars must be able to compete with each other.

Give us the LX8, if theres no cars that can keep up, then we'll just race the lx8 against other LX8's. Nothing wrong with single class racing. :thumb:

[XCNuse]

he means the class LRF (LX6, RAC, FZ50)

imo, if we get downforce on the LX8, then it would be workable, but as light and fast as it is without any type of downforce.. its just ludacris

but get some spoilers on that thing like the one that went around nurb real fast, and i'll be all about it ;)

[L(Oo)ney]

he means the class LRF (LX6, RAC, FZ50)

Ah right, ok. Ignore that first part if thats what you meant.. :)

[Lautsprecher[NOR]]

but get some spoilers on that thing like the one that went around nurb real fast, and i'll be all about it ;)Got any links to a video of that?

[XCNuse]

wasnt a video, it was a picture somone posted way back in RSC of what i believe was a super 7 with big spoilers, its really neat looking

[Bob Smith]

It would never work. I mean, the LX8s advantage is normally its light weight giving it high corner speeds. However it's lack of downforce compared to the other GTRs would mean it would corner slower. With 360bhp it would get the same sort of top speeds as the GTRs (though only due to the LXs in LFS being much more aerodynamic than Sevens IRL), and would accelerate quicker (bastard fast with R1s).

But then again it has a power-to-weight close to that of the FO8, and we know how that drives at low speeds. Only the downforce would never kick in to stabilise things. With the current model at least it's not a car I fancy driving (well, seriously).

So if we had an LX8 it would have to have downforce to be competitive, but that just wouldn't be right. And it could never be made to be competitive with the FWD GTRs, since it would be the lightest and most powerful, making it quicker both on the straights and round the bends.

So the LX8 (with the current opponents) can only be a single class car.

XCNuse: are you thinking of the Donkervoort D8 'Ring Special?

[XCNuse]

ah yes, that would be it bob, thanks ;)

http://www.modernracer.com/autonews/autonewsdonkervoortpic1.jpg
http://members.lycos.nl/rai2005/donk.jpg

as for downforce and whatnot, since it would be so light (no idea how light, the LX cars are so light anyways i dont see how you could lower so to speak the weight anymore since those usually are made out of composites) anyways.. since it would be so light, it would probably wouldnt get but about half the downforce the other GTR cars have
imo it would be extremely hard to match the LX8 up with the GTR cars
and ontop of that, it would just be unpractical, it would be odd to have these V8 (speaking of looks wise) such beasts.. then you have this little tiny lotus 7 like thing.. it wouldnt look right

imo i think the LX8 is just so out of class..
okay.. ..just spent like half an hour trying to find something on RSC when i just found it in 2 seconds on google of the stats i got for the cars before S2 was released...

anyways, here it is;
Engine: 3.0 Liter V8
Power: 257 kW (345bhp) @ 9481 RPM
Torque: 285 Km (210lbft) @ 7392 RPM
Total mass: 753 kb (1581lbs)
Power-weight: 341 W/kg (485 bhp/ton)
Weight dist: 43.2 F 55.8 R
--------------------
at only 345 hp.. hm.. i dunno, its just so unusual to see like the LX8, its like seeing a race version of the lotus super 7, its just so unusual and probably nothing like it to race against, the cars i want to think of are like my dad's ginetta and cobras and whatnot, but those things wouldnt be able to keep up with that beast.. well maybe my dad's ginetta (that thing was fast) but.. it just wouldnt seem right, the more i think about it, i think its best the LX8 was dropped, i mean its just so.. out there and unique its just .. different, and you cant really put anything with it since its meant to be an older car, but tuned up to a race version which is something you never see

[Huru-aito]

One Donkervoort vid can be downloaded from http://82.165.26.185/download/download.php Kaufmann_24h_2000.zip

Dunno if it's the fastest of them, but sure goes quickly around the Ring :)

I feel the same as Bob, the LX8 would be just too hard to control without wings, and wouldn't fit any of the existing classes with or without the wings. It could've been in a class of it's own, but I don't think it would've been a car to enjoy driving around.

[Leprekaun]

Well, in a way, why wouldn't the DF help the LX8. I mean if you could get a lot of DF for it to keep it sticky whilst still maintaining that LX feel, I think it would be really cool. I know it would be hard to achieve, but really, the more important thing for me is to see the LX8 in the game because I really love the LX cars and one of the cars that I was most looking forward to in S2 was the LX8. I like the UFR but it wouldn't hurt to have the LX8 in there with the bunch :D

[Breizh]

Bob, why would a downforced LXR just not be right?

[Tweaker]

Well for the most part, it doesn't look right...

But you are better off with what most of the Caterham bunches are like... a very good power/weight ratio... these cars depend on their lightness to be quick, even if their top speed isn't very fast. So to have an LXR that has excessive amounts of power and most likely being too heavy, resorting to downforce to alleviate that is just not typical for this type of car.

A far better solution in my opinion would be some LX that is very lightweight and has superior cornering ability with racing tires on. Quick, lightweight, and nimble, Simple as that :)

The Donkervoort takes this a step further, and looks cool to me at least, but for the car to keep its 'nostalgic' type look and be a race car at the same time, no wings would be the first choice for any LX-type car imo.

[XCNuse]

what exactly are you saying?
so if the LX6 was made rounder i guess, and slightly different, but similar enough to call it an LX, you would race it?

dunno.. only thing i see is that its gonna be tiny compared to the GTR cars, and again, the looks are just hitting me like a brick wall
i mean, if you were watching DTM or V8 or ... whatever with fast cars, and a team pulls out a lotus or a dankorvoort.. what would you be saying to yourself lol

[Bob Smith]

Basically going with what Tweaker said, it's a 50's style car, and they didn't know much about aerodynamics at that time, nor had anyone purposely fitted lift generating areas to a road vehicle yet. So, it's just not right.

The Donkervoort is not based on a Seven, only inspired by it, and attempts to modernise the shape while adding things such as aero. So we could get something like that in LFS but there would be too important things to note 1) the whole shape would need to be modernised, so it couldn't share anything with the base LX models 2) it couldn't have the LX name either

[Breizh]

Ok. I'm not as auto-cultured as you guys, so to me the LXs, in LFS and RL looked like well thought, original designs from a go-fast standpoint, not continuations of a tradition.
There's the Morgan IRL, and plenty of other cars that brake the usual molds, that race amongst regular cars in regular classes..
I'm not sure I buy into the nostalgia tho, they're first and foremost cars, in a racing sim, so the bottom line is racing them, not winning aesthetics awards.. :) Not to discount the RL heritage either.
But to me what matters is good racing, and if all the "LX8"'d need is wings, a remodel and a new name so as not to break anyone's suspension of disbelief/immersion, then why not?
The rest (besides a few) of the cars are fake too.

Look at it this way: if you hosted the LFS GTR series, and a guy wanted to race his non XRR/FZR/FXR car, you'd let him, so long as he played fair, i.e. had a balanced and not too disparate amount of advantage/disadvantage at the various tracks you ran.

[Hyperactive]

Hmm, the LX8 gtr just reminded me about something: http://www.fast-autos.net/morgan/morganaero8gt.html. Morgan Aero!

Look at the engine specs:
Type: BMW V8
Displacement: 4398 cc
Horsepower: 500 bhp @ 6900 rpm
Torque: 420 lb-ft @ 6300 rpm

By the specs it would fit pretty well among the other GTRs? Little more power but less torque. And some LX looks there, well little...oh none then :)

[-wes-]

bump up the weight; that would make it more stable?

how about 2000kg(ah a bit too heavey,1600kg)? But then you need more power say 650bhp?
:pillepall :razz:

No downforce on that either, should be fun and slower than the gtr's.

[Tweaker]

Well you can see that in LFS atm... cars that are too heavy don't handle very well (like the FZ50), and because the LX's weight is way more to the front, nothing would be in the rear. Bad combination.

Besides, you'll find that Caterham, Westfield, and other smaller companies that modify this overall car, that they want to accomplish in making it lighter.

[XCNuse]

well.. what i hoped to be a 1 hour messaround with an LX6 turned out to be 3 hours work and 1 hour rendering 2 images.. but hey.. its not to bad looking imo
obviously since its put together stuff and not a real model, i wont be releasing it lol because its a peice of crap with parts just moved arond and whatnot, but if there were to be an LX8 GTR spec thing.. i think it should look something along the lines of this:
[well i guess the hood and front should change slightly.. that, and laugh all you want at the front wheel covers lol they add a nice little touch to it i think]

[DodgeRacer]

well.. what i hoped to be a 1 hour messaround with an LX6 turned out to be 3 hours work and 1 hour rendering 2 images.. but hey.. its not to bad looking imo
obviously since its put together stuff and not a real model, i wont be releasing it lol because its a peice of crap with parts just moved arond and whatnot, but if there were to be an LX8 GTR spec thing.. i think it should look something along the lines of this:
[well i guess the hood and front should change slightly.. that, and laugh all you want at the front wheel covers lol they add a nice little touch to it i think]

That is increadible man! Nice work!

[XCNuse]

it could have used more work, but just with those basic parts... the LX can turn into a beastly car, i might make a model and make it rounder and whatnot and see what i come up with if im bored/not working on secret project

[Lible]

WOW, that`s nice. Only that`s strange front wing seems to be a snowplough

[inCogNito]

i think scawen should think about making the current GTR cars competitive instead of adding new cars to the class.

[XCNuse]

lol .. i guess it could work as one if you lower it enough :p

anyways, i restarted from scratch this morning to fix up an arseload of things that were screwed up yesterday, so i guess this is the 'final' of the LXGTR, because... i dont know what else to do to it lol

@incognito.. GTRs seem pretty close to me (except FXR but its still close in many parts)
overall the times are about the same, its just you wont see anyone running WR times lol

[ajp71]

IRL the Morgan Aero 8 GT3 car has about 350bhp (although a 500bhp version would be easy to produce). A Caterham with wings is called a Mallock (http://www.mallocksports.co.uk/), but a front engined chassis running slicks and wings with a 220 bhp Vauxhaul Lotus engine will still be a second a lap slower than a 140 bhp single seater, put a 500 bhp V8 in it and it would be overpowered and would struggle to keep up with the other GTRs unless it was very well sorted.

[Nick_ll]

Well how about just a LX6 with a "race ported" engine, slicks and downforce? THAT would be light and would sound right as a LXR.

[Tweaker]

i think scawen should think about making the current GTR cars competitive instead of adding new cars to the class.
I agree, and I wouldn't like to see a LX 'GTR' compete with them, that is a totally bogus proposition.

The LX would be in its own class, thats it.

[XCNuse]

well it cant go with FWD GTRs, because there already is the light UFGTR.. why have 2 light cars in the same class, plus, putting it in the large GTR class.. that just mixes it up even more

it may look out of place, but seeing what i've done to it (very little at that).. with some of eric's touch i can see it mixing with the GTRs

[ajp71]

There are fundemental limits to the design of a Lotus 7, if it's simulated accurately the LX8 will be slower than the LX6.

What engine is the LX6 simulating anyway? 1.8 litre, 190 bhp sounds like a K-series with the wrong number of cylinders to me.

[Danny Boy]

OK lets follow the general line of thinking along. Lets give the LX8, or even the 6, downforce and slicks. And give it more power. Oh and lets give it one seat instead of two. Hang on... What are we left with? The F08. Dont make the same kind of car twice I say!

All this talk of makeing an "LX GTR" is silly to me cause thats not what the lx is supposed to be. Fair enough, the lx8 is making the transition from track day car to "pro sponsored factory etc..." racing car. Slicks make sence here (and I would hate to try to make a good racing start without wheelspin on conventional raod tyres) but plz dont downforce it!

People say it would be easier to drive with this kinda stuff... Well der... but then it wouldnt be an lx style car would it? I've always been a fan of the lx and I really want the lx8 to be the kind of car they always meant it to be: fast, quick around tight corners, and almost impossible 2 keep control of. If anyone wants a car thats easier to control then the lx, go to the F0X.

Remember... you arent supposed to be able to drive the LX quickly 1st time you try. In fact if you try to do so you WILL crash. It takes practice. I can run 1:25's on blackwood now and it took me a long time to get that good (I know its still pretty terrible) but I would love to have the next level of power in the lx8. What can I say? I like crashing:nod:

[Gunn]

LX cars racing with GTRs? That would be completely uncontaminated with realism.

[JJ72]

THAT would be a giant killer.

[Primoz]

Why put a huge and heavy V8 in it? Why not just turbocharge the LX6's engine? The donkenwhatever has a turbo (at least in the renn.tv video). Thinking more about it, it does look and sound weird, yes. I eman even now, racing a LX4 vs. TBO is scary, think of the slightly bigger but imnesly faster GTRs. That would be a horro show to race with them and pass them. We would probably get used to it but still. I would probably overtake on the otherside og the road, if possible :D I mean, side by side with another GTR, the roof of the LX would reach somewhere to the door window.

About the Morgan Aero 8, no downforce? Never seen http://www.fast-autos.net/vehicles/Morgan/2002/Aero_8_GT/ ? It was even in GTR; the game (AND the demo, togheter with a Lister on SPA).

[Primoz]

Oh, XCNuse. Nice model, but if you REALLY want to make it a racing car, needs some touch :) the snowplough needs to go, change it with some kannards (2 or 3 on each side of the nose) and integrate the lights into the bodywork, these are way too un-aerodynamic. Maybe also a cabrio with the wing attached to the rollcage?

THis whole post is my oppinion. I am not telling anyone how to make stuff, i'm just saying what in my oppinion looks/works better.

[Bluebird B B]

One Donkervoort vid can be downloaded from http://82.165.26.185/download/download.php Kaufmann_24h_2000.zip

Dunno if it's the fastest of them, but sure goes quickly around the Ring :)

I feel the same as Bob, the LX8 would be just too hard to control without wings, and wouldn't fit any of the existing classes with or without the wings. It could've been in a class of it's own, but I don't think it would've been a car to enjoy driving around.

The modified and tuned donkervoort is currently a lot faster then a carrera GT on track. Also it beats a race-prepared Porsche 996 GT2R by one second.
http://dvnews.news-letter.nl/content?cmd=contentview&contentid=770

So instead of worrying the LX8 will be to slow even with downforce, we should worry about being to fast for the gtr' s :D

Idea, skip the lx8 questions and ask the lfs-team to try to get the donkervoort into lfs :)

edit: The engine in a donkervoort is a tuned audi 1.8 4 cyl 20v turbo engine, wel known from audi TT, audi a3 enz.

[510N3D]

OK lets follow the general line of thinking along. Lets give the LX8, or even the 6, downforce and slicks. And give it more power. Oh and lets give it one seat instead of two. Hang on... What are we left with? The F08. Dont make the same kind of car twice I say!

All this talk of makeing an "LX GTR" is silly to me cause thats not what the lx is supposed to be. Fair enough, the lx8 is making the transition from track day car to "pro sponsored factory etc..." racing car. Slicks make sence here (and I would hate to try to make a good racing start without wheelspin on conventional raod tyres) but plz dont downforce it!

People say it would be easier to drive with this kinda stuff... Well der... but then it wouldnt be an lx style car would it? I've always been a fan of the lx and I really want the lx8 to be the kind of car they always meant it to be: fast, quick around tight corners, and almost impossible 2 keep control of. If anyone wants a car thats easier to control then the lx, go to the F0X.

Remember... you arent supposed to be able to drive the LX quickly 1st time you try. In fact if you try to do so you WILL crash. It takes practice. I can run 1:25's on blackwood now and it took me a long time to get that good (I know its still pretty terrible) but I would love to have the next level of power in the lx8. What can I say? I like crashing:nod:

i totally agree with you at almost every point you've made. Even if those things looks kind of nice it wouldn't be a LX anymore. However, i'd like to ask you what you think about a RB4 GTR version instead? Would that makes sense at all?

[Hankstar]

You want an uncontrollable LX8? Bring it, but forget the older-school Catersevens styling, forget adding wings to such classic design (I mean, why not just have another GTR? Wings take all the fun out of having such mad power anyway) and base it on this Aussie legend:

The Elfin MS8 Clubman. 5.7L Holden (GM) V8, 245+ kW (that means loads of hp), shitloads of torque, kerb weight of 900kg and damn, it looks the part :) Saw an electric blue one on the street the other day and had to hose off my tongue, which had fallen onto the road.

[ShannonN]

While i know the main idea of the thread is to get some competition for the GTR class, altering the base LX series enough to compete??? is that a good idea?

To me that's not adding a similar class or style of car to the class, but inventing something totally different in an attempt to match the existing class.

If we want a strong V8 competitor why not drop a suitable (on paper) competitive HP V8 into the current GTR cars? that is have two XRR, FZR, FXR cars? This is so you can set each car up to account for differences rather than just select different motors?

To me it makes more sense realism wise to have the same class cars, body shape etc available as two distinct engine (and probably) running gear types, I'd suggest this would be a very competitive way of racing this class and would be fun to compare the strengths of a suitable V8 against the strengths of the Turbo 4s.

For the LFS development team there should be only a minimal development change as the cars already exist.

Eric could make only the most minor graphical changes if necessary to the 'V8' newcomers, such as different headlights/taillights to distinguish them, and the rest is the engine and weight distribution handling changes the 'mechanical' changes would bring.

It would challenge those like me who grew up with V8s as the ruling beast vs those more modern lads who only know and use modern technology Turbos etc ?

my opinion only :)

Cheers ShannonN

[Hankstar]

+1

An NA V8 vs turbo 4 or 6 could be a great match. After all, when I was a nipper long before V8 Supercars, you had the Aust Touring Car Championship which featured all manner of machines. There were Beemers, RX7s, V8 Commodores & Falcons, Jag XJSs all after each other, then in '89 they were joined by the mad-as R32 Skyline - which, ironically, was so good it was subsequently banned, which (sadly, some might say) paved the way for the two-cab contest we currently enjoy :)

However it happens, the lack of a stonking great V8 in LFS really needs to be addressed :nod:

[StableX]

well.. what i hoped to be a 1 hour messaround with an LX6 turned out to be 3 hours work and 1 hour rendering 2 images.. but hey.. its not to bad looking imo
obviously since its put together stuff and not a real model, i wont be releasing it lol because its a peice of crap with parts just moved arond and whatnot, but if there were to be an LX8 GTR spec thing.. i think it should look something along the lines of this:
[well i guess the hood and front should change slightly.. that, and laugh all you want at the front wheel covers lol they add a nice little touch to it i think]

superb work!

[Zebediah_S2]

An NA V8 vs turbo 4 or 6 could be a great match. After all, when I was a nipper long before V8 Supercars, you had the Aust Touring Car Championship which featured all manner of machines. There were Beemers, RX7s, V8 Commodores & Falcons, Jag XJSs all after each other, then in '89 they were joined by the mad-as R32 Skyline - which, ironically, was so good it was subsequently banned, which (sadly, some might say) paved the way for the two-cab contest we currently enjoy :)

However it happens, the lack of a stonking great V8 in LFS really needs to be addressed :nod:

agreed and + 10,000

my favorite cars are the lx4 and lx6. they are great in their own respect, but there needs to be a gtr version.
i would like to see an lx8 with a 4.3L high revving V8 and downforce.
the model is actually very nice. i really like the rear wing
the front wing is a bit snowplowish, but it is growing on me the more i look at it.

wings or no wings, we need a V8.

that and a diesel

[Racer Y]

I think XC's car looks pretty cool :)
I'd like to see a V8 version of the LX. I could care less if it competed with the GTR cars. Hmmm.. Maybe make a couple of additional cars along with the LX. like "vintage" versions of the XRT and FXO to run in the same class. The FXO has a vague resemblance to a muscle car. So I could imagine a '60s version of that car if it existed.

An LX with a big block V8 (over 350 c.i.) and two 4bbl carbs
and maybe chrome(?) or painted exhaust pipes and more stylish rims.
yeah, that would be cool.

[Anathema]

+1 for XCNuse`s great interpretation of an LXR.:thumb:

We need definitly more cars in LFS....:scratchch Eric, wake up

[Dajmin]

Other than the snowplough at the front, I like XCNuse's LXR/8 there.

I'd also like to see it in the game, whether it had wings or not. Although I do think that it might be a total death trap without :)