GTR killed the TBO star ??

[farcar]

I know the dominance of GTR/Open Wheeler racing over other classes has been discussed before, but perhaps not with a specific question like this one.

Which do you enjoy more: faster cars or closer racing?

I just had a quick TBO session with a small group (5-7) racers at BL and had a blast. Slipstreaming here, overtaking there. None of us were superstar quick, but it was close clean and fun. The best racing I've had on LFS in a long time.

Later, I joined a server configured for that that stalwart of GTR racing, AS National with around 18 drivers. By turn 3, the field had spread out to it's usual 'freight train' precession. No overtaking, just waiting for the guy in front to leave the track (or disconnect) to gain a position. Challenging driving? Certainly. Fun? Not always.

My answer to my own question will always be for close racing. I love the pace and challenge of the fast cars, but will always come back to bumper to bumper action long term.

This is a racing game, not a lapping game.

I just wish there were more opportunities to race...

[SoloNijN]

I know the dominance of GTR/Open Wheeler racing over other classes has been discussed before, but perhaps not with a specific question like this one.

Which do you enjoy more: faster cars or closer racing?



Definately close racing, with about 5 of 6 people.

more people could be fun, but in the end its only going to give more trouble

[felplacerad]

hehe - and 12 months ago everyone was whining about the slow cars in lfs :P

[Fonnybone]

I just had a quick TBO session with a small group (5-7) racers at BL and had a blast. Slipstreaming here, overtaking there. None of us were superstar quick, but it was close clean and fun. The best racing I've had on LFS in a long time.
(...)
My answer to my own question will always be for close racing. I love the pace
and challenge of the fast cars, but will always come back to bumper to bumper
action long term.

This is a racing game, not a lapping game.


This is why i say LFS is a game simulating car racing.

Hackers, lamers, spammers, bumpdrafters, wreckers, 'wangers', dangerous
n00bs, killer tr00pz, rat packs and the guy out back, won't move her, push
him to the side, but the killer is the ride YOU'RE in, damnit, real life ain't like
this, i ain't gotta prove my skills, to a teen on pills, needing adrenaline, but
lacking the discipline, no one to inform us, that he suddenly feels, like testing
the limits of 'real'. All this and more, reasons or results, show an inherent
division, between reality and simulation.

No no, i haven't gone completely insane, ok so i have, but that little part
above was intentional, it's a little adlib prose just 'cuz i felt like it :)

[JohnMid1098]

TBO races were the same in S1. What you're looking at is a group of people racing without thousands of hours put into setups etc, which leads to closer racing initially, whatever the formula. As time goes on, the speed/ability differential increases, and the races become more processional.

[Bob Smith]

As time goes on, the speed/ability differential increases, and the races become more processional.
I'm not sure if I can agree with that. You can only get so fast, and over time more and more people will be getting close to the limit, creating close FAST racing. At the beginning races are close-ish simply because nobody is fast.

I remember some of the last MRT5 races my team had in S1. We'd all driven the car so much that by the end of a (nearly) 2 hour race everyone was still on the same lap, and places were still being fought for. That's close racing.

[jmkz]

it doesn't matter what car you are in if the people you are playing with all have ~ equal skill, then any race will be "close"

I've had as much "close" racing in FXO GTR as with the FXO Turbo and Gti. I stay consistant with all cars, which means: slow ;)

[boosterfire]

Slower car doesn't mean closer racing. It's all about racing times. If you get on a server where there are 6 XRRs that are all running the same time as you, there is a possibility that you'll get close, clean racing.

Obviously, closer racing with slower cars is more easy, because the times are more constant and more close from each other. For example, if you run 1.41 with the uf1 on bl1, there are alot of chances that the other times on a server will be around 1.42, 1.43 and 1.44. Besides, if you run 1.09.00 with the FOX, I can bet alot that times will go up to 1.14 or 1.15, which is obviously not good for close racing.

This is why racing in leagues, with pools is nice, you qualify on a server where people are around your times, which is a good way to get close racing.

Boosterfire. :)

[Ardent]

I like the races with fast cars more, but not because they are fast. Actually I find the gti much more fun to drive, but in races people tend to behave bad as far as I've seen so far. They try to overtake me as soon as are behind me by just braking later, although they are not necessarily faster. They just hope, that I will leave room for them in the corner so they can pass, which I will of course absolutely not. This mostly leads to kickvote spam and is not much fun because it is hard to end a race without being crashed.
In the fast cars people seem to be much more careful. I also think that pushing from behind to force a mistake is much better and much more real tactic to overtake (and safer too).

[Racer Y]

Uhh... (Weird thread) Uh, well, I like the TBO class, but
I don't see as much difference with those than I do the GTR cars as far
as determining whether or not you'll have close racing. If you took
All those ppl racing in procession (lol freight train) and put them in TBO class
cars, I don't think the style of racing would change all that much, just the cars
would be different.
And speaking of TBO cars.... Man the RB4 really needs to be sped up some.
I was on a TBO server (Aston Club was the track) a few days ago.
There was not even any where near close racing, using the RB4 against the FXO
I may as well have used it against the GTR cars
Yeah, I know that it's always been that way since S-1, but in S-1 If a person was really fast, they could not only keep up, but win with the RB4......
In fact, I kinda wonder if the RB4 could even keep up with GT/GTi cars now.

[farcar]

I've had as much "close" racing in FXO GTR as with the FXO Turbo and Gti. I stay consistant with all cars, which means: slow ;)

Really? 99% of the GTR races I've been in have either not been close at all, or had fleeting moments of closeness. I wish I was you :D

My thoughts are that less horsepower would usually lead to cloaser racing.

Think about it, if you are 0.5 sec later on the throttle exiting a corner in a TBO/GTI car, the guy in front might gain 10 metres on you. If you are 0.5 secs later in the the FO8, you might end up 20 - 30 metres behind.

That's one reason why the BTCC has more wheel to wheel action than F1.

[skiingman]

Wow, the title of this thread is simply brilliant. :)

[tailing]

Personally I think it's a bit of a falacy that slower cars will produce closer racing. In my experience I find that mistakes in the slower cars are more costly and your chances of re-catching someone of similar skill is less likely.
I also don't think it's right to consider close dicing as the be all and end all of racing, maybe in short sprints but in longer races there generally isn't as much dicing but so many other factors start to come into the race.

[Gabkicks]

it doesn't matter what car you are in if the people you are playing with all have ~ equal skill, then any race will be "close"

I've had as much "close" racing in FXO GTR as with the FXO Turbo and Gti. I stay consistant with all cars... ;)
I was gonna say something similar but i guess it'd be less typing just to quote someone else :P

I've had some really close crazy battles for position in the GTI, theturbos, as well as with the gtr cars. The gtr and formula classes are faster so drafting/slipstreaming plays a bigger roll. side by side driving is rare since you can just slip stream behind someone and blow past them on the straights withthe faster cars. but there are still plenty of close battles.

[farcar]

In an attempt to back up my arguement somewhat, have a look at this thread (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=406) where people have posted replays of close races. From memory, only one was with GTR cars (at BL with about 1 million people racing). The rest were all GTI and TBO races. No OW races were posted.

I also don't think it's right to consider close dicing as the be all and end all of racing, maybe in short sprints but in longer races there generally isn't as much dicing but so many other factors start to come into the race.
I'd agree with you here. Endurance racing is a different kettle of racing (screwed up cliche intended), is not about dicing and is not what I was trying to get at. I still reckon that lower powered cars produce closer racing more often.
I was trying to find out 1/ If people prefer close racing over fast cars 2/ If yes, why do GTR and OW cars dominate the servers so much?

[ajp71]

I don't personally race the GTRs that much but many here will have driven/raced/watched fast road cars will naturally want to get a new thrill out of their sim racing, there wouldn't be grids full of hot hatches and Formula Vees if people could race 911s and F3000 cars for the same amount of both money and the commitment required preparing the cars. Some of my best races have come from the road cars although people just don't seem to want to race them, no one is forcing people to join GTR or open wheel servers, I'd love to be able to fill in some FE Black or SO sprint 2 times but people just aren't interested in racing these circuits.

I personally am not a fan of pitstops in FOX raes because 1\ The car has more than a 5 lap tank 2\ In a real Formula Renault refueling requires removing the body panels.

[Huru-aito]

I haven't raced the TBO class that much since S2 alpha, but here's what I think:

Less power / lower grip / lower cornering speeds don't necessarily mean closer racing. Sure you have more time to react and plan your moves, but because of that also the possibility to make a mistake is smaller than with faster cars. If you make a mistake you have a lot of catching up to do since exit speeds mean more. I'd say if you have a close race or not depends not on the choice of cars but the skills of your opponents - if they're as fast and smart as you then there's gonna be close racing whatever the cars are.

To me part of the fun is indeed the fast reactions and decisions you have to do when racing the big GTRs. It seems that either other people feel the same way or they just join the servers that have many players racing.

[DodgeRacer]

I think its all caused by the newness factor, when demo days were here, it was all demo cars all the time, then the TBO cars came along in s1 and everyone scooched over to them, then the mrt came along...now the gtr cars...once the newness wears off im sure things will even out again, either that or there will be a "movement" towards a differnt class, its to hard to focus and dedicate all your time to perfecting all the classes of cars haha, so mostly as far as i have seen its been 1 or two at a time..

[Fetzo]

in tbo and lrf you don't have the aero problems and an accidental bump won't spin off the one besides you (even a beginner can catch a slide in a xrt).

i really do enjoy racing in streetcars more than in racecars. the publics are definately better with streetcars. in GTRs half of the field is pitting after 1 lap.

[AndroidXP]

@DodgeRacer: agreed :nod:

[ajp71]

even a beginner can catch a slide in a xrt

I can't catch big slides in any of the road cars due to the settings I have to use to make my wheel correct, otherwise it is ridiculously oversensitive, those with DFPs should remember not everyone has got such a large steering lock.

[ButterTyres]

heheh funny thread name, got to be one of the best since the forum's conception :)

When I read post #1 I was thinking "Yeah man, he's right" but after reading more yeah its a tough one to call. Recently we have had a UF1 league race and the racing was "closer" at times, but mostly we were driving round watching each other from a distance as it takes lots longer to catch someone up in those (lesser powered) cars after a mistake.

I do miss the TBO class though, think I'll do that for our next league idea next year :up:

[Fonnybone]

Indeed. In real life, slower cars provide little chances of catching up and
faster cars usually give a better chance at conpensating errors since most
of the time, you can't use all the available power, yet, in LFS we see the
opposite. My guess is that the fact that this isn't real means a lot of people
take bigger chances and can crash faster cars, well, faster, and harder,
sometimes taking out a few cars in the process (sometimes many) . It's
like the good old Skyline in GranTurismo, 1000hp, go from turn to turn in a
split second, smash into the wall 'cause it won't turn much, get back on
track and accelerate to the next turn, repeat. In a slower car, i would get
faster laps simply because i could keep the car on track. You all know how
deep you can get in the sand trap with an FO8 compared to the UFs, that
alone can be worth more time than the speed difference sometimes.

UF1000/UFR races are great because of this, very little room for error
yet you have to find room for an advantage if you want to get out of the
train. I'd have to say that i find slower races more enjoyable in LFS since
you can also rub fenders a bit and not get shuttled to the moon. There is
more close racing and that is what racing is. Racing alone isn't a race.

[jmkz]

Racing alone is racing yourself and if you find it challenging to go alone on a circuit and lap it over and over to get the best out of yourself & the car, than racing alone.. is racing ;)

I've spend hours lapping the Nurburgring in GT4 with a tuned Evo VIII, very fun and challenging

[Hyperactive]

It's like the good old Skyline in GranTurismo, 1000hp, go from turn to turn in a
split second, smash into the wall 'cause it won't turn much, get back on
track and accelerate to the next turn, repeat.

The 1000hp supra was even more eevil! :nod:

Maybe people (maybe?) get more close races in TBO class simply because of the slower speeds so you can actually drive closer and for longer times? And the cars aren't so powerful that you can immediatelly use other people's mistakes to pass 'em... You can have close races in GTR class too, but the skill levels must be very close. I think in TBO class people with wider range of skills can have close races...in F08 it just isn't possible?

[Fonnybone]

Maybe people get more close races in TBO class simply because of the slower
speeds so you can actually drive (...)

I think you can stop there. Simply because most people CAN drive them
whereas a lot of people that are in faster cars can't. They are in the seat,
they even have the steering wheel in hand, but it's not 'driving', at least,
not yet. The lower speeds means more people can connect with LFS and
race at the limit imo.

The limit is also 'wider' and more forgiving so less people end up in the sand
pits. You actually have time to be scared of the sand pits, panic, start
braking, realise there's still a chance, get back in line and touch the grass
slightly on your way to the next turn. In the GTRs, although you can actually
change direction and correct faster, you also have less time to react.
I know a few turns that i take 'full-out' in the GTRs, it's the kind of turn where
you either make it or you don't, you'll know once the car starts turning, or
not. If you hook in the right line, you'll be ok, else, prepare to minimise
damage, because you WILL go off. This can cost a lot of time in itself.

Damage also reduces performance. Being able to keep the car on the road
means you also get better performance (actually, you maintain peak
performance). Again, TBO has lower damage impacts in general so the
performance difference is smaller than in a GTR race, or worse, a Formula
race. This is considering no one is perfect and you'll go off a few times.
I know some are maniacs that can do the same perfect lap over and over,
but most can't. Add to that the unpredictable nature of a race and you're
sure to see people go off at LEAST once per race.

Then there's the obvious, TBO has been around for a lot more time so most
of us have a lot more practice with them and only have to adjust to the
tires or suspension depending on the patch whereas the GTRs are still
relatively new. I'm sure in a year or two, GTRs will be just like TBO
competition wise.

[Hyperactive]

Funnybone, sorry if I sounded like saying the cars are just easy to drive and stuff, because they aren't. I just wanted to say that because the speeds ARE slower than in faster classes, you get more time to react and driving closer to others IS easier. It's much harder to be side by side in AS historic in the big gtrs than in GTTs.

And compare this to your post:
"Maybe people (maybe?) get more close races in TBO class simply because of the slower speeds so you can actually drive closer and for longer times? And the cars aren't so powerful that you can immediatelly use other people's mistakes to pass 'em..."

[Scoop]

My closest races ever in S2 were done in the uf1000, i think it's becase it's so easy to get to 1 sec from wr and ppl do so everyone is at the same speed, plus it is a chalange to drive it, u have to get every line perfect cause u don't have a lot of hp to work with, second to it i like the TBO as close racing, gtr are too fast on small mystake and youre out, one small slide and the tyres are gone, i'm not a perfect driver so u can see where i'm going at.

[MyBoss]

If you have tried to race with FXR only, its pretty fun. Close fast racing.
The MRT5 in S1 was really fun. Very close racing.


In S2, I think the FOX could give some fast close racing. But the TBO class still kicks arse.

[LRB_Aly]

I think it also depends a lot on the track you are racing. I.e. when i started to race in the ESCC (GTR's) the first race was on WE Int, there you had a good chance to overtake someone on the start/finish line cause it's long and you could slipstream to pass. Then again later we had a race on Kyoto nat in which i've got stuck behind a slower car but no matter what i've done i never was in the position to overtake but still it was challenging to try (at the end i overtook him but with a risky manoeuver). Last race was on Fe Green which was pretty difficult to overtake someone with the gtr's don't know perhaps cause of the short starights. But i must admit in the league i'm often involved
in close fights. On the other hand on public servers the only challenge i have is when i start from behind (exception is when there are fast drivers on it and most of them also drive leagues). So in my opinion GTR's are great fun if you drive in a league where the drivers are all skilled ones but on public servers the gap is sometimes that huge between drivers so that you sometimes drive many laps without any fighting.

[operator0]

Slower cars allow more time to think about strategy also. When you are in a train in the GTR cars, sometimes everything moves too fast for you to make the split second decision about going inside or out side on someone. This can lead to catastroffic errors and bent cars. In the slower cars, you have a little bit more time to decide correctly.

[Chaos]

On the other hand on public servers the only challenge i have is when i start from behind
That's why I always set the start order to REVERSE on servers where I have the admin pass. Everytime there are a lot of people and it's great fun! Also when racing on other servers, once I get to start from the first row, I jump to the pits and start from there, because I don't like "hotlapping" on the first position...

Scawen, please would it be possible to set the REVERSE starting order as default? IMO not many people change the default dedi-server settings and with the reverse starting order there is much more fun and a bigger challenge in the races...

[farcar]

Scawen, please would it be possible to set the REVERSE starting order as default? IMO not many people change the default dedi-server settings and with the reverse starting order there is much more fun and a bigger challenge in the races...

Dunno if that's a good idea. I remember my first online race in a FOX, my plan was to hang at the back of the pack and stay out of trouble.

When the race started I found myself in pole position with 20 odd angry FOXs revving behind me. I quite simply freaked out.

It is good for experienced racers, but can suck arese for newbies who want to stay clear of trouble.

[Bob Smith]

Yeah I don't mind being at the back when I know I'm fast but if I'm new to the combo I certainly don't want to start at the front!

[ayrton senna 87]

i usually spectate and join at the last second when its a non reverse server, that will sort you out (and get u in last) starting at the front is boring and is for hotlappers. on the whole, GTR racing is alot cleaner than FOX, so it would deffo be good.

[STROBE]

Scawen, please would it be possible to set the REVERSE starting order as default? IMO not many people change the default dedi-server settings and with the reverse starting order there is much more fun and a bigger challenge in the races...
As farcar has already said, that's not a good idea in a very big way.

Sometimes, if I'm one of the medium to quick guys on a track (although the latter only ever applies on AS3 so far) when there's a reverse starting grid, having to fight your way through those who wreck and generally can't drive without clobbering another car nearby is a guaranteed way to ruin a race and make folk desert a server. (Note that I'm not saying newbies shouldn't be online, as the learning curve is so much faster online - just that they shouldn't be at the head of the grid).

Othertimes (i.e. most circuits except AS3) I'm one of the slow guys - I know I'm slow, and the last thing I want is to be starting at the front of the grid. I'd much rather start from the back if I'm slow and be able to learn from following people, rather than be punted off at T1 by two or three frustrated hotlappers with little or no racing etiquette.

But back on topic, I think the popularity of the GTR class over TBO is most likely a temporary thing. TBO might never be as popular as GTR, as the faster, more exciting, more challenging cars will probably always attract more people; but I suspect the novelty value of GTR is making it extremely popular at the moment. And eventually folk will realise that there's other car classes that offer a different challenge, too.

[operator0]

But back on topic, I think the popularity of the GTR class over TBO is most likely a temporary thing. TBO might never be as popular as GTR, as the faster, more exciting, more challenging cars will probably always attract more people; but I suspect the novelty value of GTR is making it extremely popular at the moment. And eventually folk will realise that there's other car classes that offer a different challenge, too.

It's already happening as I predicted in another thread. More people are racing the other classes everyday. Still hard to find, but it's getting more and more prevelent.

[Mogar]

I like to drive the GTR class cars, but the aerodynamics bugs just kill the fun of the races. Specially the slipstream bug (it's simply too exagerated on GTR cars, you can see on real races drivers going much closer than you can in LFS, on LFS you need to be too far from the car in front of you or else you loose a lot of grip and spin).


So, we on brazilian league decided to go with the TBO cars for our first championship, and we had some very nice fights for positions on the first races.

[Gabkicks]

i dont think its really that much off from real life. i see the same stuff happening in super GT. the only reason alot of people dont drive as close is simply an issue of skill mostly...

[STROBE]

i dont think its really that much off from real life. i see the same stuff happening in super GT.
It seems pretty off to me. On AS3 in the GTRs I can exit the chicane and draft past the car in front, who will then tuck in behind me and draft past again, followed by me tucking in behind him and getting a draft so that we're side-by-side into T1. In real life I've never seen two cars draft each other three times in the space of one straight/such short time.

Problem with the drafting is that it doesn't feel progresisve enough - it's like hitting a "push to pass" button. I'd expect the drafting to be ever so slight at first, you just notice the increased acceleration and a slight gain on the car ahead, with the effect more and more pronounced as you close on the car in front. Instead it feels like you get nothing at first, then suddenly the whole draft effect is applied instantly.

[tailing]

i dont think its really that much off from real life. i see the same stuff happening in super GT. the only reason alot of people dont drive as close is simply an issue of skill mostly...

I tend to agree, I couldn't say if it is completely right, I suspect it isn't but recently I was in some FOX races at BL1 and I could stay close to a leading car through corners just by adjusting for the loss of grip.

[farcar]

How about the difference between close racing and passing?

My stance is that there is way more passing in TBO races compared to GTR/Formula races. I suppose mainly because of the lower speeds down the straights and longer braking zones. The margins in all aspects of TBO racing are larger. I love it though. It can be exciting stuff.

You could even bring lag into the equation; in slower cars it's less likely to cause a massive lag crash. For example, you're not going to approach another car in the slipstream as quickly for them to lag, then appear in your cockpit a few dozen milliseconds later.

[Carlos H Wrobel]

It seems pretty off to me. On AS3 in the GTRs I can exit the chicane and draft past the car in front, who will then tuck in behind me and draft past again, followed by me tucking in behind him and getting a draft so that we're side-by-side into T1. In real life I've never seen two cars draft each other three times in the space of one straight/such short time.

Problem with the drafting is that it doesn't feel progresisve enough - it's like hitting a "push to pass" button. I'd expect the drafting to be ever so slight at first, you just notice the increased acceleration and a slight gain on the car ahead, with the effect more and more pronounced as you close on the car in front. Instead it feels like you get nothing at first, then suddenly the whole draft effect is applied instantly.

true...

and i this happens with all cars... with GTi u can gain almost 10km/h drafting... lol

with a gtr u can draft 3 times at as nat/hist/gp, or on ky national, for example...

[DodgeRacer]

personaly as a whole i think the draft is way to strong up close and way to weak after a little distance

[Goldfingiz]

Close racing without a doubt! Keeps me on edge and close competition is great.

[farcar]

A great session tonight on the DPRT server made me think of this ye olde thread. I've never seen GTR or open wheeler racing as close as this packed grid of TBOs.

The racing was amazing as was the driving etiquette.
Lap times were not a factor, this was all about racing smarts, not hot laps.
Although there was a bit of carnage, all racers showed great respect for each other, trying to avoid contact as much as possible.
Bring on the TBO renaissance! :thumb:

Here is but one eample:

There are battles all over the place, but the battle for the lead rages on till the end while the battle for 5th goes nuts behind them.

[spankmeyer]

I think both suck pretty bad unless you choose the cheesemobile. :D GTR class is pure FZR domination and TBO is 100% FXO domination.

[Bob Smith]

TBO is 100% FXO domination.
They might win but I'll be having more fun in my GTT. :) And I'll be safe in knowning my drivetrain layout is righteous and just. :D

[farcar]

I think both suck pretty bad unless you choose the cheesemobile. :D GTR class is pure FZR domination and TBO is 100% FXO domination.
Did you watch the replay? We all know about the dominance of certain vehicles. I was talking about racing! :D

[banshee56]

I think both suck pretty bad unless you choose the cheesemobile. :D GTR class is pure FZR domination and TBO is 100% FXO domination.

I have had several sessions (each over a couple of days) on the CEROLAG server, racing the TBO classes at Aston Club, FE Green, and KY GP Long. They always use a rule of having FXO drivers carry a passenger in front. This seems to even out the performance of the FXO relative to the XRT, with the RB4 lagging behind as usual. I have found that even though this class is slower and maybe not as exciting on your own, these cars require a lot of planning and control to make them fast, as they are NOT race cars. This is even more important when you are beside someone, as it requires a different corner entry and throttle control to make a clean pass and still be somewhat fast. These cars are a great challenge, regardless of their relative speed.

[filur]

I know the dominance of GTR/Open Wheeler racing over other classes has been discussed before, but perhaps not with a specific question like this one.

Which do you enjoy more: faster cars or closer racing?

Closer racing, UF1 races always puts a smile on my face. :)

And i guess the XRT is still my favorite car overall.

[v4forlife]

ive found that the closest raceing that ive had in a long long time, was in the mrt. i have never tried to drive this cept on the autocross track empty, but its so much fun.

with the smaller power vehicles(and i find this in bikes too, with my 400) its more enjoyable cause its easier to come close to, without going over, the edge. you work the car more, so get more of a reward, being the quick, close racing

[Hallen]

I have had several sessions (each over a couple of days) on the CEROLAG server, racing the TBO classes at Aston Club, FE Green, and KY GP Long. They always use a rule of having FXO drivers carry a passenger in front. This seems to even out the performance of the FXO relative to the XRT, with the RB4 lagging behind as usual. I have found that even though this class is slower and maybe not as exciting on your own, these cars require a lot of planning and control to make them fast, as they are NOT race cars. This is even more important when you are beside someone, as it requires a different corner entry and throttle control to make a clean pass and still be somewhat fast. These cars are a great challenge, regardless of their relative speed.

Wow! Banshee driving a car with fenders on it and liking it... never thought I would see it lol :tilt:

I think the point is that the faster cars leave less time to correct for mistakes. Add that to the fact that a lot of drivers, especially on public servers, can't drive the faster cars properly, you don't get close racing.
The GTR's are sexy, it attracts the noobs because they are fast. But they are not ready to drive them in close racing situations.
I love the TBO, LRF and slower cars. They are a blast to drive and they can be caught before a big mistake happens. I think you can have close racing with all cars, but it is more likely with the slower cars.

[PLAYLIFE]

It seems pretty off to me. On AS3 in the GTRs I can exit the chicane and draft past the car in front, who will then tuck in behind me and draft past again, followed by me tucking in behind him and getting a draft so that we're side-by-side into T1. In real life I've never seen two cars draft each other three times in the space of one straight/such short time.

Problem with the drafting is that it doesn't feel progresisve enough - it's like hitting a "push to pass" button. I'd expect the drafting to be ever so slight at first, you just notice the increased acceleration and a slight gain on the car ahead, with the effect more and more pronounced as you close on the car in front. Instead it feels like you get nothing at first, then suddenly the whole draft effect is applied instantly.


hmmm... did you see the drafting that happened on Suzuka F1 race last year? That was some crazy-a** draft they got from the guys in front... And the straight was not that long...

Besides, it could also be that in real life drivers behind don't pass so that you can repass them. Maybe they wait instead and go for the pass close to the corner... Would be smart, huh? :shrug:

[n2oaddict]

I've been TBO-ing on BLGP today, great fun, although almost everyone was using FXO's, except some rwd-to-the-power guys that chose XRT.

[farcar]

...almost everyone was using FXO's, except some rwd-to-the-power guys that chose XRT.
Hats off to the XRT racers too. There's no way I could drive one of those things in close racing situations; they're way too sensitive for me.

[n2oaddict]

I love driving them, last night I was racing XRT at BLGP Rev and it's awesome. Just I had more practice with the FXO in regular BLGP and I decided to go with it, it was the safer option :P

[mr_x]

TBO class is very good for racing with! i used to race UF1's because they are so easy to drive close to other people, i never really tried the TBO class until last night, if you get a good setup and confidence in the car, they are easy to drive!! won my first TBO race on BLGP this morning, was a close run thing, 10 laps with a pitstop. hot laps arent needed to win, just consistent laptimes, all of my laps were within .5 of a second, helped me to a 5 second win in the end :) i was well chuffed

[Fetzo]

i enjoy racing tbo a lot these days. it is very nice that a lot of fxo drivers place a passenger in their car to even out the field a little.

i am not very ambitious when i am racing, but i like close racing.

70 additional kilogramms in the fxo and you don't even notice any advantage for the xrt+rb4, so much for the balance.

cmon beta-testers, do your job :p.

[Vain]

I also always watch those FXOs drive away. But I can't stand driving that car. I tried it. Hard. And I hate it. Hard.
The XRT is lovely. The RB4 weights some pounds too much, but the XRT is just right. :thumb:

Vain

[B2B@300]

I love all the road class cars (UF1 - FZ5) :thumb: and race them almost exlusively whenever I'm online, but that is getting less and less at the moment life's too busy :( .

Had some great races last weekend on SO Long Rev with the GTi and GT cars :tilt:

Just to make a comment about the imbalances, sometimes its a good thing :shy: for example I was in a GTi but a sec or so off WR pace but Takumi was in a GT at WR pace :schwitz: so we had some great battles and close racing because of the imbalance in car performance, that wouldn't have happened with perfectly balanced cars :)

When I join servers with road going cars I generally race what the other guys are racing, unless I'm too far off pace :smileypul, so if the majority are in GTT's with maybe a few less experienced guys in FXO's, I'll jump in a GTT also :) but if a few fast drivers connect and take the FXO I will also go for the FXO, as that is my car of choice at the moment. I have a sneaky feeling that that will most likely change with the next patch though :D :x

[Bawbag]

Are you drunk?

[farcar]

Are you drunk?
It all made sense to me. :shrug:

Then again, I am drunk. :thumbsup:

[Fetzo]

Just to make a comment about the imbalances, sometimes its a good thing :shy: for example I was in a GTi but a sec or so off WR pace but Takumi was in a GT at WR pace :schwitz: so we had some great battles and close racing because of the imbalance in car performance, that wouldn't have happened with perfectly balanced cars :)

well, good for you :) (because you prefer the faster car). for racers who like the gt these imbalances are bad, especially if you don't race at WR-pace or you have opponents in the gti who are normally as fast as yourself. i want to see more GTs on GTI/GT servers. the only way to get this, is by making the gt faster / the gti slower.

it's just nicer to have 'fair' battles and not being the permanent underdog.