Would you pay to enter a race?

[Alan Dove]

I don't know if this has ever been done, and maybe it's a repeated post so please delete if it is......

Would anyone pay to enter a race...say something like £5.

I am not proposing to do this, but as with real life you pay to enter, and get awarded if you win....ala 'Grand Prix'

You could do it is a one-off race each year.... So everyone pays £5 that could be anything up to 100-200 racers....and through qualification etc... teh final 20 would be there....and whoever wins...WINS BIG....

I think this could add a whole new dimension to race....though i DO RECOGNISE it's downfalls....but some of you guys put some serious cash into have a decent sim setup I don't see why you can't take it to the next level?

Has this been done, and have you any thoughts?

[zeugnimod]

No, I only race for fun.

If money is involved it can get ugly very fast IMO.

[Blas89]

I think thats a really good thing to do! $_$ money money. Well I don't know if this has been done but if I think I could have a chance to win, I'll pay 5.

[nikimere]

There would be a lot of legal issues, you'd need to get proper clear rules and solicitors/lawyers involved etc... It would be a serious amount of hastle, but if someone was to do it, i'd take part :)

[Jonas8431]

I would pay, yes!!! why not? I paid 24 lb for s2:D

[Hankstar]

I wouldn't pay to enter an online race - not because of any moral objections but because it's highly probable that I wouldn't win :)

[TypeRCivic]

when all is said and done I think of it as gambling.......Internet Gambling so I'd take my chances on a scratch off rather then paying to race for money and it's bad enough we have to pay for the game let alone to have a server where you pay to race. I think it would be a very bad thing, considering there is money on the line. What happens when some dirty racer clips your rear bumper and wipes you out and he wins the money? Well thats why it's not a smart idea, or what happens when people start crashing other cars because they are not going to win? This is a headache waiting to happen.........


-1

[geeman1]

If money is involved it can get ugly very fast IMO.Yeah. Add money and people will do anything to win. Rules would need to be very strict and there would need to be a constant watch on people that those rules would be followed. Over the Internet it's not easy to get it to work, because you can't really control people. It would work better on a LAN party type of gathering where people would have to physically be there.

[TypeRCivic]

Yeah. Add money and people will do anything to win. Rules would need to be very strict and there would need to be a constant watch on people that those rules would be followed. Over the Internet it's not easy to get it to work, because you can't really control people. It would work better on a LAN party type of gathering where people would have to physically be there.


I guess you can do something like stcc or what ever it's called, and have to earn licences and what not......But it really souds like a bad idea

[Jertje]

I'd definitely be up for paying 5 quid to enter a race with prizes, preferably an entire season though, obviously with marshals and everything. It's fun to see whether or not people are affected by the 'pressure' of racing for prizes.

I still don't think it's plausible though. Racing others like myself who would enjoy the extra tension would be fine. Racing people who just race for the money wouldn't be so much fun.

[joen]

No, not a chance. I don't race to win big money, it just isn't an incentive. To me racing is purely and only for fun and nothing else. Fighting for the honor is enough for me.

[wien]

Personally I think you'd have a hard time finding enough people that actually think they could win something like that. If they don't think they can win, they won't throw away the money to enter either. I know I certainly wouldn't knowing the level of the competition within this community.

[stevewhite]

The only place i could see this work, is best of 3, one on one races in a tournament. If someone crashes the other on purpose, the crasher is out of the tournament automatically. The would have to be a panel of reviewers in such a case. It could work! But it dangerous, as they can take your money, and you cant do anything! Thats why a lan thing would do best.

[Leprekaun]

Well, I had an idea actually of a virtual bank account :D. Very simple really, each licenced LFS member receives some virtual starting money which they can then use to enter either a league where its basically anyone can join and then there'll be the big leagues (eg.: MoE) where they'd have to pay extra virtual money to participate ;). For a simple explanation, lets say each driver gets, say 10k credits (yep, I suppose you could bring it back :p) and then there would be leagues which would have entry fees and then ultimately, with all the gathered virtual money from all the participants, say 50 credits per driver with a full grid of 32 drivers which would total up 1600 credits so everyone competes to get the 1600 credits which may give you enough money to enter a slightly higher series. I'd love this tbh :D. You could also have a system of then buying cars :p, I mean it :D. Lets say it costs 3k credits to get a UF1 and I dunno, 7k to get an XFG and then leading on to the faster machines like the GTR cars and single seater machines, costing between 50k to 200k to get them. I know that system would suck because you can't drive all the cars at the beginning but I think if everyone tries to see the fun side of working to get a better car, you could really have a really cool fun system :D. I know that this has been done with the Caribbean servers and such but if you were make it a universal thing within the LFS community, I'd say it could really work ;). Just some thoughts so plz.... :schwitz:


Don't Flame Me!

[Storm_Cloud]

No to virtual credits (sorry Lep but I went boss-eyed halfway through reading that - don't they have paragraphs in Cairo? :))

The money thing might work. I'm not interested in winning money (I have enough already), but it could possibly spice things up, if done correctly.

I would be happy to pay a small entry fee to leagues even if it wasn't for prize money, but went to the league to help pay for the website and servers it uses, as a lot of people pay a lot of money so I can fart about on their servers and I have no objection to paying my share.

[Misko]

Well, we did something like this in October, but everything was among friends, so there wasn't a hint of any problem. Everybody chip in and may the best demo driver win the licence. :)
http://www.lfsnews.net/default.asp?m=shownews&news_id=539

[Woz]

It would be far far to easy to fix the results.

All is takes is a small team or 4-5 people to work together and they WILL win the race. Now we can have 30 people races that is $450 up for grabs per race with $5 entrance

These cheat teams would have 2 fast drivers and the rest of the team have the job of slowing/crashing with the fast drivers that pose a risk. As long as the fast people in the team are clean and they do not share an IP or last name it is then impossible to implicate them.

All this is before you deal with all the legal issues you will face.

The first thing I always think of with this sort of idea is how could I cheat to win. There are just too many ways to have problems.

[Hankstar]

Good points there.

I guess if you were going to do this, the safest way would be with a small group of people who you knew you could trust - or via LAN so you could hunt down any scammers and punish them in real-time :)

[boosterfire]

I don't see why anybody who knows he has no chance to win would pay money to enter a race. If he's just looking for the fun of it, he can get in a league and will get the same results.

Personally, I know I can't keep up with the big guys, so you won't ever see me actually pay for someone else's prize, it's kind of dumb. :shrug:

[danowat]

Do a search, I mentioned this a while ago, and promptly got shot down in flames :)

[RaDuS]

depending on the reward yes

[Vykos69]

Now we can have 30 people races that is $450 up for grabs per race with $5 entrance


Mathematics = F (or 0 points, or a 6)

On topic: The ESL Pro Series needs a monthly fee to drive in, and you get rewarded with money by winning (Every race win is 80,- € e.g.). With a decent administrating and referee structure this idea might work, and one could set up some decent "pay-to-win" races on a weekly basis. But it needs to be done only regularly, not like public racing, cause then you cant check, if there is cheating etc...

[radweld]

Silly idea for the mainstream, I wouldnt pay to race simply because I would never win, or maybe if i'm lucky! so 95% of the racers would pay for the fast 5%. Then there cheating! then wrecking and team blocking.

Silly idea.

However, paying to enter an championship with a set number of races and the same racers could be good, at the end of the championship the winner takes the prize money.

However, as soon as there is money involved emotions run even higher than they do now and it would be difficult to control, I dont think I woul dbe happy about it.

[nikimere]

It would be far far to easy to fix the results.

...

These cheat teams would have 2 fast drivers and the rest of the team have the job of slowing/crashing with the fast drivers that pose a risk. As long as the fast people in the team are clean and they do not share an IP or last name it is then impossible to implicate them.



That's why it should be a league and not a one-off race.
If it was a league the "cheat teams" as you say could be banned after one lovely performance.
It could work and it could work well, the only problem is getting all the legal stuff sorted. I wouldn't worry about cheaters of wreckers, they would be if they tried anything stupid.

[Jamexing]

Money = power, and power corrupts. More money = more corruption i.e. cheating, backstabbing, less than savory tactics, more lawyers aka professional liers in for a piece of the pie, etc

[Tomi]

I don't know if this has ever been done, and maybe it's a repeated post so please delete if it is......

Would anyone pay to enter a race...say something like £5.

I am not proposing to do this, but as with real life you pay to enter, and get awarded if you win....ala 'Grand Prix'

You could do it is a one-off race each year.... So everyone pays £5 that could be anything up to 100-200 racers....and through qualification etc... teh final 20 would be there....and whoever wins...WINS BIG....

I think this could add a whole new dimension to race....though i DO RECOGNISE it's downfalls....but some of you guys put some serious cash into have a decent sim setup I don't see why you can't take it to the next level?

Has this been done, and have you any thoughts?

I wouldn't pay for 1 race.

But I pay already 25€ per year to be a member of the French Sim Racing Federation. This sum is spent on high speed dedicated servers, the organisation of ~20 different championships + lots of open races (GPL, NR2003, RBR, GTL, GTR2, LFS, RACE...) and a Lan party and I think it is a bargain. The money is spent on usefull things, it is not about making profit or offer prizes, so I'm OK with this.

[NitroNitrous]

The problem that has some sports si money, all is done for money, and then the sport become a bussiness and get bored and bored. So as much as a sport is far from money and bussiness, more interesting, funny and competitive will be a sport.

[Becky Rose]

I can justify paying a small entrance fee, I think I would probably avoid leagues with a prize fund though. I think the standard of race craft in online racing is still a little low and too many races would be decided on stewarding decisions - or the lack of them.

[S0ul]

Maybe i would but only if i knew who else is participating...cause if Bagbag is involved its: All Money for Mooney...

[Dajmin]

In theory there's no reason why an entry fee / grand prize idea wouldn't work, but as Becky said, it's not just the racing that's the issue - you need multiple independant judges to watch over the races and make decisions on whatever happens.

The other thing you'd need to deal with in this case is the guaranteed secure transfer of cash. You don't want to be giving out everyone's bank details, nor do you really want them all lying around where inquisitive hackers might get hold of them. Okay with sort code/account number you can only make deposits, but with that info you can cause problems for the account holder.

[felplacerad]

If money is involved it can get ugly very fast IMO.

HA HA HA! I read Mooney! :monkey:

Edit: Oh, s0ul already made that joke. Aww ...

[duke_toaster]

Short answer : no.
Long answer : It wouldn't work well. Events with prize money would cause more bitching, maybe even wrecking ...

[Captain Slow]

i wouldnt for a few reasons,


i wouldnt win anyway
im poor
my dad would probably use the phone and disconnect me halfway through
i wouldnt trust everyone to race fair.

[FOGlegsy]

I wouldn't pay to enter an online race - not because of any moral objections but because it's highly probable that I wouldn't win :)
My thoughts exactly :thumb:

[TiJay]

I'd pay to enter a LAN because my race wouldn't be jeopardised by random Internet disconnects or lag. I wouldn't pay to race online because my race could be ruined in a second by one dropped packet.

[Widdowmaker]

Its an idea that was consisdered some time ago in certain circles.

LFS is not yet in a position where you could Stwerd, or marshall a race to standard where you can effectivley make almost flawless decisions during the race.

To administer a single race, LFS does not contain the required functions to yet make this possible.

A money paid series I would support - However - the onus would be on the racer - to drive clean and fair.

A contract would have to be signed prior - and they would have to agree that a decison of the race director is final.

A minimal standard would have to be met to be allowed to enter. That could be determined via LFS World - or via a practice session. I would go far to say that anyone who has seen the STCCC syste would be a good guide to gauging a racers skill.

Lep would not be allowed to enter.....:thumb::D:x

If run correctly, if contested in the correct spirit - I beleive it would be a good dooooo.....

The full complaints and issues system would have to be run...

As for the Prize monies - Would be split 1, 2, 3 as per most racing formats, and deductions from the fund can go to server hosting - at the decretion of the league host or administrator.

But the one thing that ties it all togethor is - you dont have to enter, and if you do enter, youve signed up to what was written down.

If half way through the season you dont like whats happening - you dont have an arguement.

People saying you need legal support - lawyers etc.... no you dont, for £5...... your havin a laugh. However - thats my case - honest as the day is long..... I wouldnt run of with so little money... Promise.

Other than that - I wouldnt take part in it - and I wouldnt run it - to much head ache and too many moaners, who cant drive for toffee. Ive run a league before and it consumed my life - making sure everything was done fairly as possible.

Good luck if you choose to go ahead with it..

[zeugnimod]

It could be done with simulated money just to see how it goes.

And whats the difference between "simulated money" and points? :scratchch

[Indiana Jim]

I don't know if this has ever been done, and maybe it's a repeated post so please delete if it is......

Would anyone pay to enter a race...say something like £5.

I am not proposing to do this, but as with real life you pay to enter, and get awarded if you win....ala 'Grand Prix'

You could do it is a one-off race each year.... So everyone pays £5 that could be anything up to 100-200 racers....and through qualification etc... teh final 20 would be there....and whoever wins...WINS BIG....

I think this could add a whole new dimension to race....though i DO RECOGNISE it's downfalls....but some of you guys put some serious cash into have a decent sim setup I don't see why you can't take it to the next level?

Has this been done, and have you any thoughts?

In the US this is considerd gambling and many laws would apply. But for whatever is worth, no, I would not pay anymore than I already have.

[Alan Dove]

The standard of marshalling in reality isn't that high a standard when compared to what could be done with a computer sim. And for such a low entry fee I don't think anyone will be getting lawyers involved....

The thing is this, if simming continues to grow via people playing, and watching then sponsorship will be attracted...and with sponsorship will come money....

Now you have a league like the STCC with 'x' company knocking at the door.....surely this money will translate into prize money somehow......???

I thinking gaining revenue this way would be better because the entrants wouldn't have to 'pay' to enter, and the rules, and marshalling would be at the discretion of whoever has organised the league.

Surely it's an inevitability?

[X-Ter]

As said above, a LAN environment is the only place where a real price contest could be done and and done fair. Swedish Sim Racers just had a LAN meeting with both real world drivers and sim world drivers in the seats and the prices where real.

But doing the same in an internet environment where such factors as lag/latency plays big part, I'm not so sure. Apart from it possibly being illegal in some countries, there is also the fact that sooner or later there will be an argument about who messed up and took out who.

Having said this, I know for a fact that there has been pay to race events out there, but more for a "good cause" to rally up money to support cancer research and other stuff. People pay, people race ot have some fun and the science gets the money, while the league or event gets the proper attention :nod:

[Osco]

hell no

[BlakjeKaas]

It's rediculous, simulation setups (as in wheel, shifter etc.) make you slower...

So if you race with mouse, it's easier.

that takes the sim out of it... =(

(btw: I'm slow, maybe that has got something to do with it.)

[bbman]

A race - not in a lifetime...

A league - maybe, depends on how much I like it, if I got bad/good experiences with it, how well the rules are enforced etc... Still, the fee has to be small or else I wouldn't bother...

[Motordirex]

All servers should be treated like a local track, in which you HAVE to pay a fee to use them. People dont really understand that I dont think, and if they do they dont care. At minimum, a fee should be offered to use a server even if its a once a year membership. It could possibly cut down on the amount of idiots doing idiotic things if they know they can be banned after paying a fee to race and not get that money back.

I pay to have a Plexus banner on the score.does.it STCC Heat league site. If that helps pay to run the server, cool; Im using it anyway.

Would I pay to race, I already do.

[Leprekaun]

It could be done with simulated money just to see how it goes.

I think it could be done with InSim (or is it OutSim?).

Erm... :really:, did you not come across my post? http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=422516#post422516

[harjun]

Well, I had an idea actually of a virtual bank account :D. Very simple really, each licenced LFS member receives some virtual starting money which they can then use to enter either a league where its basically anyone can join and then there'll be the big leagues (eg.: MoE) where they'd have to pay extra virtual money to participate ;). For a simple explanation, lets say each driver gets, say 10k credits (yep, I suppose you could bring it back :p) and then there would be leagues which would have entry fees and then ultimately, with all the gathered virtual money from all the participants, say 50 credits per driver with a full grid of 32 drivers which would total up 1600 credits so everyone competes to get the 1600 credits which may give you enough money to enter a slightly higher series. I'd love this tbh :D. You could also have a system of then buying cars :p, I mean it :D. Lets say it costs 3k credits to get a UF1 and I dunno, 7k to get an XFG and then leading on to the faster machines like the GTR cars and single seater machines, costing between 50k to 200k to get them. I know that system would suck because you can't drive all the cars at the beginning but I think if everyone tries to see the fun side of working to get a better car, you could really have a really cool fun system :D. I know that this has been done with the Caribbean servers and such but if you were make it a universal thing within the LFS community, I'd say it could really work ;). Just some thoughts so plz.... :schwitz:


Don't Flame Me!
Thats like CLC