TEST Patch W21 (compatible with W17)

[Scawen]

WARNING 1 : THIS IS A TEST

WARNING 2 : SKINS ARE CONVERTED THE FIRST TIME YOU RUN THE TEST PATCH - IT TAKES 2 MINUTES OR SO

Hello racers.

Here is a new test patch W21 with various updates and fixes. It is compatible with W17, the version which first allowed 32 players in a race, but it's best to join W20/W21 hosts if possible because they send a list of skins to preload before entering, so the final connection to the host is quicker.

There are several improvements related to skins here including the option to download high resolution skins while online, for a small charge of £1 for 2000 downloads. The low resolution downloads are still free. We have to charge for the downloading of high resolution skins because of the increased bandwidth and the need to buy and maintain more internet servers for LFS online usage which is always increasing. Please note, we are not selling skins. The skins remain the property of their owners. Your copy is a high resolution compressed version of the original. This is a charge purely for the downloading service which allows you to see other cars' skins in higher resolution.

Downloaded skins are now always saved and shown in compressed form. The original jpg is not saved on other computers. This allows the best use of memory and the quickest load from disk.

To use your own jpg skins, or to view skins that you manually download, save them into your skins folder - you will then find them selectable in game, just as before. You can see your manually downloaded skins compressed or not compressed according to the option for local skins. There are now 4 skins folders but you can ignore them all, just forget about them and just use the skins folder as usual.

skins : you save jpg skins that you want to select in game
skins_dds : lfs uses this to store dds (compressed) versions of your local skins
skins_x : lfs stores automatically downloaded low res skins
skins_y : lfs stores automatically downloaded high res skins

NOTE : SKINS ARE CONVERTED ON THE FIRST RUN OF THIS TEST PATCH - THAT MAY TAKE 2 MINUTES OR SO

If you want to use this service, you can make a payment at www.lfsworld.net or at the main site https://www.liveforspeed.net/?page=shop

To deal with the increased memory usage, there is also a skin purging system which removes unneeded skins from your graphics card memory, some time after they were last used. You can see the list of skins in use in the Misc Options screen. White means the skin is actually in use. Black means it was recently used and is hanging around a while in case it is used again (to avoid a disc access). In the past, LFS just left all skins in memory until you changed track or weather.

W21 is like W20 but with the skin preloading system fixed.
Please read below for the full list of updates in W21.
I have made a post in the programmers section about the small InSim changes.

Changes in TEST PATCH W21 :

IMPROVEMENTS :

Qualifying out lap is no longer counted as a valid lap
Qualifying position is shown in yellow like race position
Qualifying cars on out lap are drawn orange (others yellow)
Race control message now has priority over wrong way message
Replay skins download screen new "always" and "never" options
High res premium skin download system (£1 for 2000 downloads)
Skin download and preload during connection after loading track
System to remove skins from graphics card memory when not used
Automatic show results - leaves small map visible when driving
Place objects is switched off when entering race or qualifying
Filter added to list of games to avoid hosts which allow reset
Wider FOV and more view pitch available (for extreme settings)
Yellow finished message is no longer duplicated in central text
Avoided most of the "Can't x - a player is connecting" messages
Escape menu improvements : can use keys (listed on screen)
New keys SHIFT+S (spectate) and SHIFT+P (go to pits)
Automatic spectate if your car drives out of bounds
Some small InSim updates + multiple UDP connections

FIXES :

Start lights or results were drawn too high if no cars in race
The pit_all command did not stop recording SPR (OOS on replay)
Joining a host in qualifying, could see flying cars (no track)
Start restriction countdown was missing from OK button in pits
Autocross checkpoints in line could cause rapid lap count bug
Path followers were reset when an object was added or removed
Path follower reset caused a glitch or an out of bounds reset
Increased maximum physics objects due to more cars on track
Some objects were not drawn after exiting pits while paused
Start lights were not shown in some of the training lessons
At start of qualifying pit speed limiter was not activated
LFS World took drag strip false start as an acceptable pb
Possibly fixed the occasional exiting List of Games crash

Changes in TEST PATCH W17 :

IMPROVEMENTS :

Max cars in multiplayer race increased to 32
InSim updated, allowing up to eight TCP connections
Small map colours : Options... Display... Interface
Removed the sound of a player pitting or spectating
Last loaded layout name visible after track changed
Start lights interval now between 1 and 4 seconds
Removed digital speedo option from view options
Qualifying session now starts from the pits
Added button to spectate from garage

FIXES :

Wrong screen message "x was banned" after an OOS disconnection
AI did not use correct car colours when added in game with /ai
Could start in reverse if changing down at end of last race
Show driver in garage allowed more penalty weight to be added

Changes in TEST PATCH W10 :

IMPROVEMENTS :

Immediate join at start of qualifying now starts from pit box
Connection bars are not drawn if they would obscure tyre info
Single player now allows up to 20 ai cars (powerful pc needed)
Small map cars more than one lap ahead are a different colour
Autocross : 28 results now stored - scroll with PgUp / PgDn
Added handicap mass and restriction to hotlap file header
Demo races limited to 12 cars (15 guests still allowed)
Better messages showing the reason for disconnection
Maximum added mass limited to around 20% of car mass
Admin can see kick and ban buttons even if /vote=no

FIXES :

Incorrect false start penalties while stationary at start
Displayed mass in garage flickered while moving handicap slider
False start penalty was given for an early start in qualifying
Corrected width of split time difference (in live position list)
Wrong "A race is starting" if track changed but no race started
Joining a waiting start grid sometimes produced a false start
Could quickly pit and return to grid to remove a false start
Skins used in race were not stored correctly in MP replays
Admins could not kick or ban using the list of connections
Could be given a pit penalty on a track with no pit lane
MRT would fly about if voluntary added mass was too high

Changes in TEST PATCH W9 :

Car is no longer held at start line - false starts possible
Start lights time between red and green is changed each race
Implemented the canreset option while leaving hotlaps valid
Added preload setting to clutch pack differentials
Increased number of cars in race from 20 to 28
Increased number of connections from 24 to 48
Single player and demo races now up to 16 cars
Start and pit fuel loads range from 1% to 100%
New voluntary handicap system in pits (part of setup)
Remote car's handicap shown in F11 menu, tyres in F12 menu
Global handicaps for class balancing (set by master server)
Removed the need to pass a split after receiving admin penalty
Start grid remains when track or config changes (if possible)
More commands now work on AI drivers : /spec /pitlane /p_xxx
More commands work even if player joining e.g. /spec /laps
Grid reordering is now done on end race as well as restart
New /i command to send a message to a race control program
Added short track name to SPR, MPR and RAF file formats
More race tracking info added to InSim (see InSim.txt)
Admins can now see other admins in list of connections
Admins can now edit and /axsave layouts while online
Admin ban dialog now asks for a number of days to ban
Added text on screen showing the reason for a penalty
Race penalty can now be removed with /p_clear command
Send all players to their pits with /pit_all command
Autocross results table only shows best 12 results
Timeout for dead connection reduced to 12 seconds
Kick and ban votes are held open a little longer
Removed the option not to use HVS if available
SHIFT + S enters garage from game setup screen
SHIFT + O enters options from SP replay
Display option : Virtual steering gauge
Display option : Rotate small map

FIX : F12 now shows "Pit stop required : OK" correctly
FIX : Find user in S2 mode looking for racer on S1 host
FIX : Message "NETWORK FATAL : NOTSOCK" when joining a host
FIX : Autocross layout number of laps sometimes did not load

DOWNLOAD :

PATCH (Version W must already be installed) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_TEST_W21.exe

ZIP VERSION (If you prefer a zip file) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_TEST_W21.zip

DEDICATED HOST (for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_W21.zip

[herki]

Gah! I wanted to post that in the old thread, but you closed it right before my eyes. On the other hand, nice to see you working at that late hour.
To my question: I was being curious, if the payment for the high-res skins does benefit you after all or just keeps your cost lower, and which would be better from they money-wise consideration: Staying with the old system or paying for the new one? Guess the eye-candy is worth the £1 to me :)

[Scawen]

Gah! I wanted to post that in the old thread, but you closed it right before my eyes. On the other hand, nice to see you working at that late hour.
To my question: I was being curious, if the payment for the high-res skins does benefit you after all or just keeps your cost lower, and which would be better from they money-wise consideration: Staying with the old system or paying for the new one? Guess the eye-candy is worth the £1 to me :)

Well, the price we charge is higher than we pay for bandwidth, we've tried to take into consideration the price of housing, servers, bandwidth, maintenance etc and the idea is that we can then profit from it a bit. That's not the only idea though... if it was free then everyone would use it and that would cause massive overload. :) All in all the price people pay for using the service should exceed the cost to us in providing it - or our calculations are very wrong! :D

[matze54564]

Have u think about the PNG-format? For some text on the car will PNG absolutely very much smaller by the same resolution. I will add a test-png. i dont know if it possible to include 2 different image-formats, PNG for Text-skins and skins with big color surfaces and JPG for photo realistic skins.

Thanks for the great patch
My favorite changes:
-Automatic show results - leaves small map visible when driving
-Automatic spectate if your car drives out of bounds

[joen]

@Devs
The DDS-skins need more space than the JPG-skins, so i don´t know why made a new format which will cause more network traffic by the same resolution?



This allows the best use of memory and the quickest load from disk.



Have u think about the PNG-format?
Some time ago there was a discussion about using PNG. But PNG files are considerably bigger in filesize.

[unseen]

Just one little problem so far, but it is annoying.

I run the new patch, and it takes ages to convert all my 2048x2048 skins to .dds

I go into the game and change the "Cars and helmet skins" option to "Full" as I always run non-compressed local skins.

I exit out the game, and delete all the much larger sized and lower quality .dds versions of my skins from the skins_dds folder, and restart LFS.

Yay, another huge long wait as my skins are converted again... :(

Surely if you select "Full" rather than "Compressed" in the options, there`s no need to have those extra .dds files taking up a huge amount of space on the hard drive?

[geeman1]

Some time ago there was a discussion about using PNG. But PNG files are considerably bigger in filesize.It depends on the skin really. But I think on avarage PNGs would be bigger than JPGs in this case.

[ATC Quicksilver]

I like the new system for skins if it means the racing will improve and there will be less people lagging on the servers. I don't mind what the skins look like on public servers anyway, I run a pretty high resolution and even the 512x512 skins don't look that bad while racing. At least for events or screenshots you can load the super high res skins into your skins_x folder in the same way we used to.

[Btoryo]

I just noticed that it downloads all the skins in LFS World:shrug:? I'm quite confused or am I wrong? Seems like my skins_x folder got bigger, anyways thanks Scawen keep on going:D

[Victor]

The One pound charge for the 1024 skins is a great idea, but I'm curious; What happens when someone puts a 12 pound credit on their account, with intentions of paying in advance for S3? Will they suddenly get 12 pounds-worth of available skins downloading, or? What about people who have already paid for S3, has that 12 pounds still been reserved for S3, or applied to the skins? Just making sure the devs have taken that into account.

if you do not turn on the 1024 car skin download option, or the 512 helmet skin option, you won't use any credit. I hope the warning screen that appears when you select either of them warns enough?

[ATC Quicksilver]

Victor you forget that many don't respond to large warning messages such as 'YELLOW FLAG' or 'BLUE FLAG' :D Make it a big red flashing screen with a very loud siren :razz:

The main thing I like about LFS is the way the dev team always pushes to improve graphics without sacrificing the performance. I remember Scawen or someone once saying something like 'LFS is a racing simulator, not an eye candy simulator' or words to that effect.

EDIT: Jimmy they mean server bandwidth for LFS, not your bandwidth. Your talking about a completely different thing to what has been done.

[Lotesdelere]

So does that mean that when I want to put my mates', high res skins into LFS that I have to put them into my skins folder - meaning that anytime I want to choose a skin for myself I now have a huge list of skins to browse through, skins that I never use?
Good question.

[Scawen]

I've gone through the thread and moved that whole texture size discussion into a spinoff thread. Please don't discuss that on this thread any more as I need to read about things directly related to this test patch (e.g. bugs, issues, etc so I can deal with them).

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=24200

[Davo]

I just joined a W17 host and upon connection got nothing but a black screen. Changing resolutions and going into windowed mode did not fix the problem. Sound was working fine but no picture. ALT+F4 worked snd the second time I loaded up W21 it connected to the host fine.

Also is it possible to use enter in the pits to get back out onto the track? I've always previsouly used X to exit the pits when SHIFT+S was used. It's just quicker than having to reach for the mouse :)

[MAGGOT]

if you do not turn on the 1024 car skin download option, or the 512 helmet skin option, you won't use any credit. I hope the warning screen that appears when you select either of them warns enough?

So, if we have existing credit in our accounts, and turn on the option it will take from that credit? That makes sense to me, I was just wondering about how it was going to be setup. I hadn't seen the warning; haven't tried the patch yet.

Sorry to post this is here, as it's not really a bug or issue, but a question regarding this patch. :)

Thanks for all the support guys! You should get some sleep, it's really late (or early? :P) there by now!

[Burnzoire]

that problem has been around for quite a few versions and it happens sproadically (for me anyway).

[AdamCZ]

Is it still work random start light? When I tried restart couple of times the last red lamp was lighting every time same duration. 1sec on BlackWood and 2sec on Aston. In Kyoto was red lights some times allready alight after restart.
Ignore it if this not up-to-date subject.
Adam

[Tweaker]

It should still be random. If you are playing by yourself or with a few people, then the wait time is very short, and it might be starting immediately after a restart. That is what I've noticed at least. You need a good sized grid for the lights to be a bit more random I think (plus a longer wait)

[Davo]

OK something else I've noticed is that my old replays are now redownloading all the skins as dds even though I have them in my skins_x and skins_y folder as jpgs. The dds files are also twice the size of the jpgs and suffer from worse compression artifacts, is this right?

edit: lfs must only recognises dds files now, and it only converted the skins in my skins folder. I guess I'll have to manually or batch convert the remaining jpg files in my skins_x folder to be able to use them.

[Zachary Zoomy]

I need to get on the computer more! this patch looks great! the only thing I don't like is the paying for skin doownloads. I understand the need for money for more servers but how about putting on an extra say $5 to the initial LFS purchase to pay for the servers. I like the Idea of 2048x2048 skins alot but I think its going to slow down my computer even more.

[Boris Lozac]

I need to get on the computer more! this patch looks great! the only thing I don't like is the paying for skin doownloads. I understand the need for money for more servers but how about putting on an extra say $5 to the initial LFS purchase to pay for the servers. I like the Idea of 2048x2048 skins alot but I think its going to slow down my computer even more.

Why would they do that? Again, for the 546 time, paying for high res skins is OPTIONAL, just pretend that this option isn't there, and your LFS experience is gonna be the same as usual..

[Zachary Zoomy]

true. but I have a feeling LFS is going to need more servers anyway so why not add money now (please don't yell at me)

[Davo]

Why would they do that? Again, for the 546 time, paying for high res skins is OPTIONAL, just pretend that this option isn't there, and your LFS experience is gonna be the same as usual..

Actually if you look at the converted dds skin files compared to their jpg brothers they're larger and have more artifacts, thus look crappier.

[Burnzoire]

so dds is bigger yes it has more compression?? how does that work :S

so I imagine there's going to be even less test servers online now :( Looking forward to patch X.

[matze54564]

so dds is bigger yes it has more compression?? how does that work :S

so I imagine there's going to be even less test servers online now :( Looking forward to patch X.
I guess that´s not possible to use the JPG-format in LFS. So in older Versions of LFS, it have to convert the JPG-Images in compatible images in game. This is now no more needed because the memory cache is saved in the DDS-folder, loading is then maybe faster. But this are just my thoughts. Please read the quoted source.
DDS files are managed within DirectX memory far more efficiently

[danowat]

I am still concerned about adding your own hi-res skins.

Scawen said in the last thread that you now do it by adding the skin to YOUR skin folder, not skins_x as before, as Gunn said, "So does that mean that when I want to put my mates', high res skins into LFS that I have to put them into my skins folder - meaning that anytime I want to choose a skin for myself I now have a huge list of skins to browse through, skins that I never use?"

If this is indeed true, we do need some way of segragating skins that you download for personal use, and those you download for multiplayer (i.e. other peoples cars) use

[Burnzoire]

I'm beginning to think this should be a spinoff discussion and we should leave this for the bugs guys :)

[Vilante 11]

I'm beginning to think this should be a spinoff discussion and we should leave this for the bugs guys :)

I've gone through the thread and moved that whole texture size discussion into a spinoff thread. Please don't discuss that on this thread any more as I need to read about things directly related to this test patch (e.g. bugs, issues, etc so I can deal with them).

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=24200

;)

[Scawen]

I am still concerned about adding your own hi-res skins.

Scawen said in the last thread that you now do it by adding the skin to YOUR skin folder, not skins_x as before, as Gunn said, "So does that mean that when I want to put my mates', high res skins into LFS that I have to put them into my skins folder - meaning that anytime I want to choose a skin for myself I now have a huge list of skins to browse through, skins that I never use?"

If this is indeed true, we do need some way of segragating skins that you download for personal use, and those you download for multiplayer (i.e. other peoples cars) use
I am just wondering if there can be a way to achieve this without adding another new skins folder. Adding a new skins folder would complicate the system further (it's already quite complicated now) and I fear things may start going wrong and be hard to debug. It would also be harder for people to understand and LFS would have to search in multiple folders sometimes to look for a skin just when someone leaves the pits. The kind of thing I'm thinking of is something like, a user editable text file that lists the skins you want to see in your list, or some other way of marking skins to be not visible in your list, other than moving them to another new folder...?

That's just unformed thoughts off the top of my head, maybe someone will have a good idea for the in game skins list restriction system. Note, this is for people who manually download high res jpg skins to see on their friends' cars. This is not related to the automatic skin downloading.

[traxxion]

How about a tickbox next to every skin in the list, and a filter that says "show / don't show ticked skins" ?

EDIT: That's quite similar to your "editable text file idea" but with an interface as described above it's easier to use :)

[balee]

Just left a server (W21), and got this error (attached).

First time my LFS got freezed ever.

System: AMD 1700+, Ati Radeon 9800 Pro, Windows XP.

[GP4Flo]

Wouldn't it be possible to place jpg and dds into the same folder? So a user could put his high-res skins into skins_y, LFS automatically converts them to dds and saves them in the same folder again. This way you could skip the skins_dds folder as well und just save the converted dds in the /skins folder.

[Shotglass]

That's just unformed thoughts off the top of my head, maybe someone will have a good idea for the in game skins list restriction system. Note, this is for people who manually download high res jpg skins to see on their friends' cars. This is not related to the automatic skin downloading.

i fail to see why you use so many folders in the first place instead of converting jpeg skins into the skins and skins_x folders repectively and managing the skins_x folder according to image size given in the file header

[danowat]

@Scawen,

I would say some kind of character in the filename would render said skin invisible to the garage inside of LFS.

Failing that, you could go the route you said, its similar to what FS2004 does, but I fear it is a little too time-consuming.

There must a simple way to "flag" the skin as invisible by the garage.............

[Gunn]

@Scawen,

I would say some kind of character in the filename would render said skin invisible to the garage inside of LFS.

Failing that, you could go the route you said, its similar to what FS2004 does, but I fear it is a little too time-consuming.

There must a simple way to "flag" the skin as invisible by the garage.............Both skins though (the one your mate uses and the one you have in your folder so you can see him) need to be the same name. If a special character flagged the skin as invisible then he wouldn't be able to choose his own skin either. Either a seperate folder or a user-driven selection method would be best. As Scawen said, the current system is a bit complicated and another folder will multiply confusion, especially for new players IMO.

[flinty72]

Both skins though (the one your mate uses and the one you have in your folder so you can see him) need to be the same name. If a special character flagged the skin as invisible then he wouldn't be able to choose his own skin either. Either a separate folder or a user-driven selection method would be best. As Scawen said, the current system is a bit complicated and another folder will multiply confusion, especially for new players IMO.
I would like to add another angle to this whole discussion and that is around the file name convention of skins. Many teams offer Hi_Res (1024 or 2048px) skins which have a particular filename, now as we all know if the name is changed in LFS World then the skin we sourced from the team (website or direct) does not match and you end up with another low-res skin of the same design in your LFS folder.
I would be more interested in having a fool proof system for skin file naming, if so then the original thinking of two folders would work flawlessly with no user intervention in most cases. So skins folder for user skins and skin_x folder for all other skins no matter what the resolution.

[tristancliffe]

Just a thought. How about when you want to choose a skin to use in a colour profile you click 'Choose Skin', which then opens a new 'window'. In that, the available skins (all of them) are shown as little thumbnails. In addition to that, a search bar could be used.

For example, in T7R my skins are called xxx_Tran.jpg. If I type in Tran in the aforementioned search bar, only skins with "tran" in the name will show (so transition.jpg would too, but at least it's cut down most).

Not necessarily a well thought out idea, but it's an idea and might be workable with a bit of though.

[Gunn]

The main function of skins_x for me has always been to exclude other people's skins from my list of chooseable skins. As long as I can still just select from my own skins (and still use quality high res skins for my friends) without seeing irrelevant files, I'm happy.

[flinty72]

The main function of skins_x for me has always been to exclude other people's skins from my list of chooseable skins. As long as I can still just select from my own skins (and still use quality high res skins for my friends) without seeing irrelevant files, I'm happy.
Hey Gunn, If your not already it might pay to read the spinoff thread here:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=420010#post420010
I think some of your questions will be answered. I hope :)

[Gunn]

Hey Gunn, If your not already it might pay to read the spinoff thread here:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=420010#post420010
I think some of your questions will be answered. I hope :)Thanks, but I don't have any questions. :)

[Ricou]

I just want to thanks the devs a lot for increasing the maximum FOV :)

[matze54564]

I It would also be harder for people to understand and LFS would have to search in multiple folders sometimes
What do you think about a user-data-folder which include all folders with user-needed and user definable data. At time i get confused with 29 folders and just 12 include files which can the user change or which the user need.

My little folder table:
N means: The user need never to explore this folder
Y means: the user have to explore the folder for private files or to share replays or copy stuff in another LFS

abc | N
dds | N
drv | N
hmn | N
knw | N
language | N
lesson | N
move | N
pic | N
smx | N
snd | N
veh | N
views | N
wld | N
skins_dds | N
skins_x | N
skins_y | N
ogg | Y
raf | Y
engine | Y
layout | Y
misc | Y
script | Y
settings | Y
skins | Y
sound | Y
mpr | Y
shots | Y
spr | Y

Furthermore i find its not a good idea to put skins from other racers in the skins-folder to see higher resolution for this.

[Burnzoire]

This is probably planned, but it's a bit of a scare... when a skin is downloading EVERY texture on a car is white, including interior & wheels. See attached.

[hectic]

This is probably planned, but it's a bit of a scare... when a skin is downloading EVERY texture on a car is white, including interior & wheels. See attached.

I've noticed the same thing in Patch W too lol

[Scawen]

That should only happen if you were driving your own car at the time that driver left the pits, and that car model hasn't already been loaded up before on your computer (normally if that driver is the first one to use that car) - so its textures were not in memory when his car was created.

That is the "pit-out glitch" avoidance, while you are driving it never loads textures from disk, it uses blank textures instead.

[zockmachine]

I saved a single player quali replay, but im not able to watch it. error message: "track start positions do not match"

[BlakjeKaas]

Ok, so I found a bug in Patch W, but I didn't post it yet since we get a new patch soon and you didn't get the bug in patch W17...

I saw that the most "Can't ... a player is connecting" are removed, so it could be solved by that...

Anyways... The bug was that if you had your car set to automatic and a player was connecting, and WHILE he was connecting you changed the gear changing via the options to shifter, you would get Can't ... a player is connecting. BUT your car wouldn't shift...

You had to shift yourself, but the car clutched itself... (so at 5K revs it would do full clutch and no throttle and then more till it was 5K revs)

As it was an automatic which didn't shift...

Anyways, thanks for the new patch, And I'll try it 4.5 hours probably (maybe in 2.5 hours)

[Burnzoire]

That should only happen if you were driving your own car at the time that driver left the pits, and that car model hasn't already been loaded up before on your computer (normally if that driver is the first one to use that car) - so its textures were not in memory when his car was created.

That is the "pit-out glitch" avoidance, while you are driving it never loads textures from disk, it uses blank textures instead.

yes the guy who took the screenshot was in a FOX, and I had changed to an F08 for the first time.

[matze54564]

Send to spectate if a player connecting is now possible:

See my chat-log:
A new guest is connecting
matze^L joined the spectators
MAR^v^vDom!n!k^L connected (Kevin Jordy^L)

Thats really the best add in the Patch W21. :)
Edit: some delays while a player connects are still there, also sometimes by using shift+S

In a full pitlane have i with W21 now double or 3x FPS than in W17, i guess thats the new skin-texture-system.

[hammer it]

I'm a little confused about the change to .dds
The converted skins are 18% larger than the corresponding .jpg's were
Wasn't the goal supposed to be to make the file size smaller to use less bandwidth?

[GeForz]

If I understood it correctly they are still transfered as jpg (you did upload the jpg, didn't you...) and then formatted as DDS to reduce the ingame lag while putting the jpg onto the model which is probably faster if you put the dds on the model.

[Scawen]

OK, here's the explanation why we save as dds. jpg file take a very long time to load and decompress. Really, really long, like 1 or 2 seconds, you can see how long when lfs says "saving skin" after a download.

On the other hand dds files are near instant to load - no decompression or conversion is required, they are used by the card in the same format as they are saved on disk - and they use much less memory on the video card than an uncompressed jpg. The video card cannot use jpg files directly, they must be expanded to raw / uncompressed, or DXT1 / dds - there are no other possible choices for a texture in memory on a video card. The purpose of DXT1 / dds is that it is a compressed format that can be used at high speed by graphics cards. The file size is larger than jpg, that's true. It's not optimised for file size, but speed of use in memory.

We still download as jpg - partly because that's how they are stored on the server, and also to keep bandwidth to a minimum - that is important because bandwidth costs money and servers. They are saved as dds files on your hard drive for two reasons.

1) It's the best option for quick loading and allowing a lot of racers online without overloading graphics card memory. loading is sometime like 0.1 second rather than 2.0 seconds, that is the sort of difference we are talking about.

2) Some users don't want their original skins available in just as high format as they are stored on LFS World - this is to prevent skin theft. although some of you may find that unimportant, that's not the opinion of those people.

I hope that helps explain what it's about. I will not get into a discussion about what files we should use for this or that, or whether we should use 2048 skins or save as original jpgs, or what person A, B and C would like and how it should be done differently. It's done the way it is for various reasons and that's how it will stay. It's simple : if you want to see acceptable nice resolution skins online, please pay and use them - it works and it works well! :) But if you don't like it, don't use it. :) Then everyone's happy. :)

[hammer it]

Great, thanks for taking the time to explain Scawen. It seems to be working well here.

[GP4Flo]

There is a problem with the lap counting/timing in qualy mode. LFS doesn't show the first timed lap after the pit-out correctly on the screen. It still shows "lap 1" although you are already in lap 2. Because of that, there are no split times shown, no blue flags for the frontrunners and the color on the minimap is wrong as well. After the completion of the 2nd lap, the lap display jumps from 1 to 3 and everything is normal.

Edit: This seems to happen only in multiplayer if you watch another car. Connect to the 24h qualy server to see the bug live. ;)

[Hawku]

I tried to watch darkones as club hotlap and i got this when he entered pits... What does this mean?

[flinty72]

I tried to watch darkones as club hotlap and i got this when he entered pits... What does this mean?
I got exactly the same thing with another HL SPR at FE Club of Worm's - No.3 in WR list (LFSW Hotlaps) with a 52.701, he pits at lap 20.

[Fischfix]

is the new skin-system a step towards customized server appearence. so servers can have their own advertising packs and textures?

[matze54564]

There is a problem with the lap counting/timing in qualy mode. LFS doesn't show the first timed lap after the pit-out correctly on the screen. It still shows "lap 1" although you are already in lap 2. Because of that, there are no split times shown,
Thats just if the qualifying finished, thats no bug i guess, if qualifying running is all fine.
Edit: Im wrong in here, it was only in my own car right, but now i see the same glitch.

the color on the minimap is wrong as well. After the completion of the 2nd lap, the lap display jumps from 1 to 3 and everything is normal.

Yes, i agree the orange cars are all wrong colored and i dint know how to change this color because its not a different setup ability for qualify. Cars in front colored orange, thats the same color like cars behind, thats not good. Coloring should be the same like in races.

[GP4Flo]

No, the qualy was still running. Try to watch other cars.

[kompa]

LFS W20 crashed when leaving server while spectating. ESC -> Leave.

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: LFS.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 46436bf1
Fault Module Name: d3d8.dll
Fault Module Version: 6.0.6000.16386
Fault Module Timestamp: 4549bcbf
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00045bd7
OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.768.3
Locale ID: 1035
Additional Information 1: fb23
Additional Information 2: 7adaeebaa15f503f14b7db365138009a
Additional Information 3: 227f
Additional Information 4: 98c07c04375a2ef886ef62500ed8357e

[matze54564]

No, the qualy was still running. Try to watch other cars.
Maybe just your connection fails, the lap counting works in every car and in my car absolutely error free. i can proof it with a screenshot if you want. And i don´t see you online at time :)

[Jakg]

is the new skin-system a step towards customized server appearence. so servers can have their own advertising packs and textures?how would it be? its just a way of upping the skin quality...

[GP4Flo]

Maybe just your connection fails, the lap counting works in every car and in my car absolutely error free. i can proof it with a screenshot if you want. And i don´t see you online at time :)
A screenshot to proof (http://home.mplo.de/qualifyingworksnice.jpg)
Where's the proof? I wrote, that it's only wrong in the first timed lap (the lap after the pit-out lap) and that it's fine from lap 3 onwards.

[matze54564]

Where's the proof? I wrote, that it's only wrong in the first timed lap (the lap after the pit-out lap) and that it's fine from lap 3 onwards.
Now i have see the glitch, the jump from 1 to 3 is only seen while spectating, not when you drive self.
Frontrunners are maybe the people in lap 1, thats also true, they get no blue flag.

Sorry that i confused someone, but at first time i have seen nothing wrong with it. And i got in the first lap right split at first time.

[Pasci]

Please have a look at the two pictures.

The w21.png contain "time" in the "german version"?! I think, this should be "Gesamt" or something like that?

In version w17 is the translation correct (picture w17.png)

[geeman1]

But i never have never see the glitch all the time. The time of the first lap will not be saved in the results-list, thats no bug, just the time of lap 2 is the first hotlap-time.It is a bug. it shouldn't jump from 1 to 3.

[aimbottle]

Yes, it's a bug. No split times in lap number 2 (number 1 is outlap) and the "number" 2 isn't displayed at all when watching a driver.

[Ondrejko]

LFS W20 crashed when leaving server while spectating. ESC -> Leave.

it happened to me either with W21

[GP4Flo]

Please have a look at the two pictures.

The w21.png contain "time" in the "german version"?! I think, this should be "Gesamt" or something like that?

In version w17 is the translation correct (picture w17.png)
No bug, the string just wasn't translated yet. I've attached the new language file, I guess Scawen will include it in W22.

[geeman1]

Escape menu improvements : can use keys (listed on screen)This doesn't look very pretty to me. The keys for the functions are too big and they also make the menu look crammed. Atleast with the finnish translation the texts seem very tightly crammed. It's good thing to list the shortcut keys, but they are too dominant the way they are now.

[balee]

This doesn't look very pretty to me. The keys for the functions are too big and they also make the menu look crammed. Atleast with the finnish translation the texts seem very tightly crammed. It's good thing to list the shortcut keys, but they are too dominant the way they are now.

Yes, really seems ugly. The old form was better.

[Shotglass]

This doesn't look very pretty to me. The keys for the functions are too big and they also make the menu look crammed. Atleast with the finnish translation the texts seem very tightly crammed. It's good thing to list the shortcut keys, but they are too dominant the way they are now.

for me the real issue here (which i just noticed) is that shift-s is spectate now

[geeman1]

for me the real issue here (which i just noticed) is that shift-s is spectate nowMakes more sense now. S = spectate and P = pits. I have no idea where the S for pits came before.

[three_jump]

Makes more sense now. S = spectate and P = pits. I have no idea where the S for pits came before.

I guess the S came from "S"etup

[STROBE]

OK, here's the explanation why we save as dds.
Thanks for the detailed explanation Scawen; interesting to know for those just browsing by as well as those debating the pros and cons of file types and sizes, etc.

Although I haven't yet tried out the W-series of test patches, I'm curious as to how the dds conversion affects the quality of the skins. I saw a couple of comparisons posted in this or other threads that suggested the dds introduces more artifacts and colour bleeding compared to the equivalent size jpeg? Is this definitely the case (or was it some incorrectly set option in LFS itself?), and does it detract at all from the extra quality of the 1024 skins now available from LFSW? If there is degradation, is that a limitation of DXT1 that can be resolved by using different DXT standards or conversions in future patches, or is it simply a limitation full stop?

Just interested, that's all. :) I'll definitely be enjoying the new hi-res skin download feature, it's something I've wanted to see for a long time. (Apologies if this is in the wrong thread, it seemed most appropriate to reply to the relevant post.)

[Boris Lozac]

OK, here's the explanation why we save as dds.

This actually sounds great, haven't find the time to test it myself, but if it really cause less lag, and less CPU and graphic power than before, than it's a great improwement, i don't care if the skins from other people are 10% worse, it's the gameplay that matters.. :)

[mcintyrej]

Okay, i've installed the patch..I launched the game and it started to convert the skins..etc. I wait for about 5 minutes, and then LFS crashes. Is there no way to get around all this skins business? (personally, i think it was better before. Less things to go wrong.)

EDIT: Disregard this message. I went away and left my computer for 20 minutes - came back and it was okay. No bug!

[Brilwing]

I don't know if it is a new feature in W21 or a bug. When I press reset during an online race, or a qualifying, the car is repaired and all tires are new. (I was alone online when I tested this)
I did not find any description of this (new) behavior in the changes list.

[matze54564]

I don't know if it is a new feature in W21 or a bug. When I press reset during an online race, or a qualifying, the car is repaired and all tires are new. (I was alone online when I tested this)
I did not find any description of this (new) behavior in the changes list.
Thats just a new arcade-feature and is in the most servers disabled. In online-games is in future no car reset allowed, and thats right so. Any car reset in game ruins the game, with repair and without repair, thats no matter.

[bbman]

Thats just a new arcade-feature and is in the most servers disabled. In online-games is in future no car reset allowed, and thats right so. Any car reset in game ruins the game, with repair and without repair, thats no matter.

Actually, no... We had resetting in previous versions, but that has been taken away and was replaced with the arcade-ish sp-mode reset behaviour...

Scawen explained that it is considered as a help for beginner server, but it wasn't appropriate for normal servers in a simulation...

@Bril: Shame on you, how many times have Lupus and I mentioned that in the testpatch-threads over at the lfs.at-board? :chairs:

[Chaos]

dunno if a bug, but some warning would be nice...
i ran out of hdd space during conversion of the skins (realized it after 5mins of going wtf?wtf?) .. it said it could not write the dds versions, but i got into the menu... selected singleplayer, went to the garage and my lx6 was white... wtf i thought, clicked on the colours tab, texture name, LFS was frozen for about 2 minutes, LFS did not respond to anything, but i gave it time and read through the changes in the patch, when i clicked on it some time it showed an empty texture list...

so some kind of a warning saying i'm out of disk space would be nice...

take me with reserve, we have a race weekend before us and since yesterday i'm at work for 13 hours a day and very tired...

[DEVIL 007]

thats a pretty good idea about warning with HDD space.
Just checked the DDS converted folder and it added almost 500MB:eek: .

Not that I wouldnt have another space left but you never know for some people.

[Shotglass]

Makes more sense now. S = spectate and P = pits. I have no idea where the S for pits came before.

if it makes sense ot not is kind of irrelevant when its become something most lfs players do automatically without even thinking about it
changing it at this point will only add confusion

[hackerx]

Any particular reason why total elapsed time isn't displayed any more?

[Scawen]

if it makes sense ot not is kind of irrelevant when its become something most lfs players do automatically without even thinking about it
changing it at this point will only add confusionNo. It confused me every time I wanted to spectate, that I could not press a key. And I had to think "what the hell is that pits key" every time I wanted to go to the pits... "oh yeah, settings". This is better. Better do these things sooner rather than later. What on earth could be the spectate key if it wasn't S?

Any particular reason why total elapsed time isn't displayed any more?Yes, it was a waste of space. I got fed up seeing so many times at the top right - it was four and now it's down to 2. Total time is now only displayed now when relevant, e.g. in a time based race.

[Vain]

I agree about the 'total time' line. It was rather unnecessary in normal races.
I don't agree on the 'best' line though. Right now I have to drive to the finish line to find out my best time. That means the ideal time isn't displayed when I want to view it.
I know that the new design is more streamlined and better from a pro-user point of view, but while racing I'd like the interface to be static and predictable. e.g. I still manually ctrl+tab to the result board, even if I want to view it directly after the finish line, because ctrl+tab is always the same. I can do it any time and regardless of the situation. It's an 'if'-construction fewer in my head.
I hope you get what I'm going at. Streamlining the interface is nice, but in racing I mostly want the GUI to be very simple. Not beautiful and small, but mostly simple.
The new changes are acceptable and don't need to be reversed. I'd just like to voice that point of view.

Vain

[hackerx]

I don't agree on the 'best' line though. Right now I have to drive to the finish line to find out my best time.
Press shift + ctrl.

[XCNuse]

This doesn't look very pretty to me. The keys for the functions are too big and they also make the menu look crammed. Atleast with the finnish translation the texts seem very tightly crammed. It's good thing to list the shortcut keys, but they are too dominant the way they are now.
I agree, I don't like it either, its to cluttered and whatnot, I prefer the larger buttons over what it is now. I don't think shortcut keys are really useful when you're already in the menu. For example, it would be like pressing the start button on your windows taskbar and it come up saying in giant letters on the screen: Press the windows key to show the start menu!


Instead Scawen, how about making another thing in the options list where you can edit all of the shortcut keys to whatever you prefer, that would make more sense at least in my mind. But the visible shortcuts definitely need to go.

[Benja1972]

I've installed the patch..I launched the game and it started to convert the skins. It took for about 3 minutes. Then I exit from LFS and launched it again. I got warning massage kind of this 'Couldn't load skins ...... ' Only two or three skins couldn't be loaded.

[SladiVadi]

I don't know if a bug but when I connected to a server there was a small hiccup and it downloaded a skin (I was still a spectator).
Here is a replay just in case although the download message isn't displayed.

That's a fine patch! :)

[Blowtus]

if it makes sense ot not is kind of irrelevant when its become something most lfs players do automatically without even thinking about it
changing it at this point will only add confusion

I agree. Shift-p is also more difficult to press. Perhaps assigning these features to whatever key you like, similar to the way the map colour issue was resolved, would be nice :)

[SchneeFee]

Ofcourse it seems logocal to bind:
Shift-S to Spectate
Shift-P to Pits
Shift-J to Join

but it means u need 2 different hands to enter the pits and return to the track. Also leaving pits is only possible with the mouse (or did i miss something?).

maybe it is possible to leave the binds so that u can get them all with 1 (left) hand. Also pls reactivate the leaving pits by Escape.

[axus]

Thanks for the update! :thumb:

Escape menu improvements : can use keys (listed on screen)

Wouldn't it be better to just have a letter underlined in each of the options and have these available at a single key-press from the menu so its as compact as before? The shortcuts that people would use from outside the menu can be looked up in controls anyway.

[matze54564]

I agree. Shift-p is also more difficult to press. Perhaps assigning these features to whatever key you like, similar to the way the map colour issue was resolved, would be nice :)
Why want you be TELEPORTED in the garage while racing?? I cant understand this, its nice that it difficult to press, thats the best add. I suggest that all wrecked cars should go to spectate and garage just possible after drive in a garage or from spectating.

I don't think shortcut keys are really useful when you're already in the menu.
This is made by scawen to learn all Noobs the short-cuts, and thats nice, some noobs dont read the stuff in the docs-folder.

[W1ldPort75]

I have the Logitech MOMO Force red and had all the buttons i configured , instead of 6 buttons i have 12 , but now i still have to press the ok button to leave the pits . Please bring back ESC button to leave pits :(

@ matze , noobs ??? hahahaha you pro racer you ;)

[matze54564]

but now i still have to press the ok button to leave the pits . Please bring back ESC button to leave pits :(
Thats right, in the Pits don´t work the shift+J and no needed hot-key, and use just the Esc-button like before will be nice.

Edit:
But in Pits u anyway have the mouse by the hand to changing setups. This is why in Pits is no Hotkey needed. If you dont wonna change a setup, you should not going to pits, just to spectators.

[DEVIL 007]

BUG report in W21: when pressing LEAVE button LFS shutdown to desktop

Just has been on the 24H test server and when I press ESC to see the menu and then press LEAVE button LFS shutdown to desktop.I would be expecting just to leave the server and not quit LFS.Tested 3 times and always the same result.

[Scawen]

The main function of skins_x for me has always been to exclude other people's skins from my list of chooseable skins. As long as I can still just select from my own skins (and still use quality high res skins for my friends) without seeing irrelevant files, I'm happy.I had a though about this, this morning, while considering the idea of adding a cleck box beside each skin, so you could select it to be hidden and an option to show skins, which does seems like a few hours work I could do without...

And then I thought... but... why is the actual list of skins being used as the way to conveniently select a skin to see on your car? The column of "colour configs" on the left side of the screen is supposed to be the way you make a list of the skins you want to use often.

It's a bit clumsy though, underdeveloped, has no rename button for example which would help. But apart from the lack of a rename button, what else is stopping you using that list as your quick means of selecting a skin?

I'm getting quite tired from these weeks of long hours on the patch X developments, still have some bugs to fix and relevant improvements to make before the final patch X release which will allow me to get on with some other things, and I would love to avoid spending half a day on a "record of skins the user does and doesn't want to see" and checkboxes, new translation items, etc... so if what you need could be achieved with a couple of improvements to the thing which is supposed to do what you need anyway (that colours list) then that would be a great help to me.

[matze54564]

Yes, it was a waste of space. I got fed up seeing so many times at the top right - it was four and now it's down to 2. Total time is now only displayed now when relevant, e.g. in a time based race.
I like to make screenshots with my best time at display. By pressing ctrl and shift i cant make screenies easy enough. Please make a user definable time-display or return to the past. Thats just my suggestion.

[felplacerad]

Re: The new escape menu featuring shortcut key information

I'd recommend keeping the shortcut legend in the escape menu (even though it doesn't look as good as it used to). Instead of removing it alltogether, add an option in misc or whatever where you can turn the shortcuts legend on or off.

[matze54564]

add an option in misc or whatever where you can turn the shortcuts legend on or off.
Why talking about this, i think thats not important to spend time with it. Nothing is taken, just the Hotkeys are added. Thats just a improvement. In every windows application are the hotkeys displayed at the menu, thats a good add. Just the Font size is a bit to big, but this disturb nothing.

[Shotglass]

No. It confused me every time I wanted to spectate, that I could not press a key. And I had to think "what the hell is that pits key" every time I wanted to go to the pits... "oh yeah, settings". This is better. Better do these things sooner rather than later. What on earth could be the spectate key if it wasn't S?

Well I gotta agree with blowtus on this one, shift-s is a very ergonomic bind which by now I can hit without even looking and I´m sure I´m not the only one.
TBH I don´t know any better binds for spectate (shift-x for exit race might work but its too close to s) but either way imho changing a keystroke people use all the time at this stage is an issue.

Hm just though of one command which might just work for spectating, admitedly by itself it doesnt have any logical connection to spectating but ctrl-c just might be somthing that´s easily remembered, fits the shape of a hand and relates to getting out of whatever you´re currently in.

In every windows application are the hotkeys displayed at the menu

theres an idea
underlining the keys needed instead of spelling the shortcut out

[felplacerad]

Why

It was a response to the discussion on page 3. The legend is a new addition; so lets discuss it when it's still on topic.

[GeForz]

theres an idea
underlining the keys needed instead of spelling the shortcut out
And how to underline a 'p' in the german localisation "box"?

[matze54564]

Well I gotta agree with blowtus on this one, shift-s is a very ergonomic bind
Why should spectating after crash not be the most ergonomic Hotkey? Going to pits when a player connecting is not yet possible, but going to spectators is possible. This is why cars after crash should going to spectators and not to pits. Furthermore is a Teleport to pits much more unrealistic than going to spectators. Because IRL is coming a helicopter which fly u in the next hospital. And we have already the ability /spec which can bind with a key, but this is just for the advanced people.

underlining the keys needed instead of spelling the shortcut out
How should then the noob know that this underlined letter can used together with shift??????

Please Please stop the discussion about this, there is absolutely no sense in any discussion about!!

[geeman1]

And how to underline a 'p' in the german localisation "box"?
Yeah, underlining won't work because of the translations. Maybe just add the key in brackets.

[LupusC]

Two short questions about InSim:

1. Will the information about node and lap in the NodeLap structure be separated? In CompCar it's separated.

2. Does PLID and uniqueId have the same meaning?

[Shotglass]

And how to underline a 'p' in the german localisation "box"?

you could overline the b so that if you turn your head it will look sort of like an underlined p :p
but yeah youre right this wont work and changing ther key combination with every translation would be even worse

Why should spectating after crash not be the most ergonomic Hotkey? Going to pits when a player connecting is not yet possible, but going to spectators is possible. This is why cars after crash should going to spectators and not to pits. Furthermore is a Teleport to pits much more unrealistic than going to spectators. Because IRL is coming a helicopter which fly u in the next hospital. And we have already the ability /spec which can bind with a key. But this is just for the advanced people.

everybody will still either go directly to the pits or got to spectate and then curse himself for still not remembering the new hotkey
all this does is add confusion by changing a hotkey which has been there ever since the very first public lfs version

[matze54564]

all this does is add confusion by changing a hotkey which has been there ever since the very first public lfs version
Yes, we all know this. But cant you see that going to spectate is more important than teleporting to pits? Isn't it better to have some confusion for a great improvement than have no confusion for no improvement?

[axus]

you could overline the b so that if you turn your head it will look sort of like an underlined p :p
but yeah youre right this wont work and changing ther key combination with every translation would be even worse

I don't think it would be that complicated to have a special character indicate the shortcut in a translation - though it's more coding for Scawen and he's already said he'd like to get Patch X out soon - so if it's easier, the shortcut keys could be hidden from a misc option. :shrug: :)

[Shotglass]

Yes, we all know this. But cant you see that going to spectate is more important than teleporting to pits? Isn't it better to have some confusion for a great improvement than have no confusion for no improvement?

its not an improvement and people will still pit directly rather than doing anything else

[Markz]

God I haven't played LFS in a month...

*tries really hard to not stop*

Ok I did it, mirror please? :)

[AndroidXP]

I don't see anything wrong in changing the telepit shortcut - it makes more sense and it's not like the combination is harder to hit (there's a second shift key on your keyboard, you know), neither does confusing them have any noteworthy effect on gameplay, as your race is over after a telepit the same way it is after spectating. Yes, you'll probably accidentally spec for some time, but I really doubt that it will take long to adapt, nor that LFS will suddenly become less fun because the friggin telepit shortcut has changed.

Though I agree, showing the shortcuts in the menu doesn't look very pretty. It might make more sense to implement a tooltip system (and use it everywhere in LFS) to show such kind of info, because after seeing it the first time it's pretty much wasted space that unnecessarily clutters up the UI.

[matze54564]

its not an improvement and people will still pit directly rather than doing anything else
People want sometimes the wrong! i have everything said why it is a improvement, everybody can read it, i don´t want say it again. We should close the discussion about and i wanna have the last word, thats true.

[[TDRT] Spøgelset]

So sorry. It´s an improvement suggestion.

Let´s say 30 ppl. are racing and the rest is spectating. Some are laggy. Voluntarily they won´t leave the server...
Looking at the small bars it´s very hard to tell who it is. For players as for server admins.
Would it be a lot of work to put something beside the player names on the connection list?
Fx. players ping in milliseconds or a "lights indication" mayby ?
Green for ok ping, Yellow for decent and red for bad ping?

Just delete the post if irrelevant/offtopic.

Bye

[matze54564]

wasted space that unnecessarily clutters up the UI.
Why do you need space in this place, there is alot more free space for more buttons. A tool tip system is not needed, its just spending time.

Edit, sorry, my plan was to put this answer in my other posting, this release is accidental.

[Pablo.CZ]

Replay OOS error reported in W10 (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=400150&highlight=oos#post400150) is present at next patches W21 included. I can make new W21 OOS replays and old Wx OOS replays are OOS in W21 too.

[GeForz]

Two short questions about InSim:

1. Will the information about node and lap in the NodeLap structure be separated? In CompCar it's separated.

2. Does PLID and uniqueId have the same meaning?
1. Better post it in the programmers section.
2. shoudl be from what i know

[SpikeyMarcoD]

Dont know if its abad think but captured my crashscreen anyway.
My interent connection went bad and lfs crashed after losing connection to the server i was on.

[flinty72]

Has anyone else experienced a black screen at times when going from windowed to full screen mode (shift+F4) & vice-versa?

Has occurred around 5 times in the past 2 days with patch W21, sound is still working but graphics disappear. Requires a shutdown and restart of LFS.

[Burnzoire]

I just had a race with a friend of mine in w21 for the second night in a row, and we both had to download the same skins again. Considering I've paid for 6000 skins, am I going to get ripped off here by redownloading them over and over?


also, the shift+p pits thing is a little frustrating but I suppose we'll get used to it. I don't care if it's not as easy to hit - since when should teleporting to the pits be such a reflex command anyway? My main issue now though, is that you can't hit the enter key to exit the pits now - Please give the OK button focus when in pits so the enter key will select it. It's very annoying to have to use the mouse just to hit one button!

[Scawen]

Please Please stop the discussion about this, there is absolutely no sense in any discussion about!!Yes, thanks you, it is getting boring. I already noted that it's too cramped in finnish, and said that I'm not going to change the keys.

Two short questions about InSim:

1. Will the information about node and lap in the NodeLap structure be separated? In CompCar it's separated.

2. Does PLID and uniqueId have the same meaning?As GeForz said, we have a special thread to discuss InSim in the programmers section, where it is more peaceful to talk about programming things.

1) No, they will not be separated. That is a highly compressed packet.

2) PLID is the player unique id. UCID is the connection unique id.

all this does is add confusion by changing a hotkey which has been there ever since the very first public lfs versionYou've already said that, and I've told you why I did it. The keys are better and I'm not going to change them. Just get used to pressing a different key, which is as it should have been in the first place. People can adapt.

Dont know if its abad think but captured my crashscreen anyway.
My interent connection went bad and lfs crashed after losing connection to the server i was on.
Thanks. A few people have now reported a crash when they have left a server. And they have provided the crash address. But unfortunately that crash address is not inside LFS, so I can't see what the problem is. I'm not sure what to suggest, but maybe we'd get some more info from a Dr Watson Log. I'd say "start... run... drwatson" but the only problem is, just a few of you will run drwatson, and it won't be the same few who get the crash, except by some amazing chance! :D I don't know if there could have been any clues about what was happening, for example was it saving a skin at the time, what had happened just before that on the server, had you spectated for a while, or did you exit very quickly while driving. We'll need more info on this now, to try and track down what causes that crash.

[Scawen]

I just had a race with a friend of mine in w21 for the second night in a row, and we both had to download the same skins again. Considering I've paid for 6000 skins, am I going to get ripped off here by redownloading them over and over?Obviously it doesn't download a skin if it's already in your folder.

[FL!P]

Two notes about the skins conversion (sorry if they've already been reported):

1. I know this should happen only once, but still it'd be nice to see some progress indication (like "Converting skin 1 out of 350 (estimated time remaining: about 3 minutes"). At the moment, if anything goes wrong and the conversion hangs, you just don't know about it. And I noticed that LFS won't let you switch from full screen to windowed mode during this conversion. So a progress indication would be useful if a problem happens.

2. When first playing a mpr saved from W17, I got a prompt about downloading the missing skins. I clicked on Yes and the car skins were downloaded. Fine. But helmet skins weren't, and everybody (including me, strangely) had plain white helmets. I tried a few replays with the same result. Then I exited and relaunched LFS, opened a replay and got the prompt again. This time I clicked on Always. I don't know if this is related, but then the helmet skins were displayed as expected.

Keep up the great work, Scawen! :thumb:

[matze54564]

Please give the OK button focus when in pits so the enter key will select it. It's very annoying to have to use the mouse just to hit one button!
If you are in Pits have you anyway the mouse in the hand to change setups, therefore is no hot-key needed.

[Scawen]

OK, that's enough posts about the requirement for a key to leave the pits. I got the message some time ago guys.

Please don't make me reply to every comment, just read the thread and see if things have already been said, if so, don't say them again. I've got a text file here with a link to all relevant posts. I don't need constant reminding in order to fix something, I just need to be told once.

[Scawen]

Though having said that, I just want to say thanks to you all for testing the test patches and giving feedback. Although it sometimes gets a bit annoying seeing one small point dragged over several pages, LFS clearly wouldn't be so stable or usable without your help and the Test Patch forum is basically a good place.

So... thanks for that! :)

[DEVIL 007]

Hi Scawen,

I am not sure if you have noticed the bug I posted on previous page.you have posted 1 minute after me so you might be writing at the same time as me.LFS crash to desktop when I press LEAVE button being in multiplayer.

Sorry for posting it twice if you already read the before.

Running Dr.Watson in background doesnt give me any crash adress.

[Fabri91]

Though having said that, I just want to say thanks to you all for testing the test patches and giving feedback. Although it sometimes gets a bit annoying seeing one small point dragged over several pages, LFS clearly wouldn't be so stable or usable without your help and the Test Patch forum is basically a good place.

So... thanks for that! :)

You're welcome! :D

[SpikeyMarcoD]

Thanks. A few people have now reported a crash when they have left a server. And they have provided the crash address. But unfortunately that crash address is not inside LFS, so I can't see what the problem is. I'm not sure what to suggest, but maybe we'd get some more info from a Dr Watson Log. I'd say "start... run... drwatson" but the only problem is, just a few of you will run drwatson, and it won't be the same few who get the crash, except by some amazing chance! :D I don't know if there could have been any clues about what was happening, for example was it saving a skin at the time, what had happened just before that on the server, had you spectated for a while, or did you exit very quickly while driving. We'll need more info on this now, to try and track down what causes that crash.

Well i was still spectating, had not yet joined the action. Dr watson hmm long time ago. let me see. guess i wont see the crash now after i run it :D

EDIT: Well must be your lucky day i have dr watson running. adding log now

[balee]

Thanks. A few people have now reported a crash when they have left a server. And they have provided the crash address. But unfortunately that crash address is not inside LFS, so I can't see what the problem is. I'm not sure what to suggest, but maybe we'd get some more info from a Dr Watson Log. I'd say "start... run... drwatson" but the only problem is, just a few of you will run drwatson, and it won't be the same few who get the crash, except by some amazing chance! :D I don't know if there could have been any clues about what was happening, for example was it saving a skin at the time, what had happened just before that on the server, had you spectated for a while, or did you exit very quickly while driving. We'll need more info on this now, to try and track down what causes that crash.

Well, I was spectating too, for about 2 mins. There were 3-4 cars runing qualification on the track (GTRs on Kyoto National). Noone was joining or leaving the server that time. No votes in progress... so I don't know. I was using 4X AA & AF if that matters.
Dr. Watson says no error found.

[Renku]

Has anyone else experienced a black screen at times when going from windowed to full screen mode (shift+F4) & vice-versa?Yes we have, me at least. Try using ALT+TAB more.

I'm sad for the SHIFT+S change too..

[Scawen]

Well i was still spectating, had not yet joined the action. Dr watson hmm long time ago. let me see. guess i wont see the crash now after i run it :D

EDIT: Well must be your lucky day i have dr watson running. adding log nowThanks.... but I'm not making much sense out of the log - I can't see anything like a fault address... maybe the info isn't available.

Hi Scawen,

I am not sure if you have noticed the bug I posted on previous page.you have posted 1 minute after me so you might be writing at the same time as me.LFS crash to desktop when I press LEAVE button being in multiplayer.

Sorry for posting it twice if you already read the before.

Running Dr.Watson in background doesnt give me any crash adress.I did read it before but... are you saying it happens every time? If so then maybe we can catch it by adding a lot of log messages.

[AndRand]

I got a question about new reset option, actually it doesnt bother me much but :shrug: will it be available for demo servers? - I just predict this option to create wreckers paradise :shrug: so its not really welcomed there.

[Scawen]

Online hosts should not be using the reset option. The reset option is for if LFS is installed in an arcade centre. It's a good setting for people on their first couple of laps in LFS, and that's the only reason it's there.

[Hyperactive]

A possible solution to the skin folder dilemma:
- a folder for dds files; skins_dds
- two folders: low res and hi res skins; skins_hi and skins_lo (just different names for the skins_x and skins_y :). These folders are used by LFS only)
- a personal folder (for our own skins to be selected in LFS, hi res or low res); my_skins. Files in this folder are in jpg format. Files in this folder are not used by LFS as skin files, only the names of the skins are used.
- a folder for all other skins that we already have, the skins-folder

LFS would handle the situation pretty much like it does now (W21), only the handling of the personal skins would be slightly different, but not much:
- all jpg-skins are saved and converted to dds-files and "copied" in the skins_dds folder
- LFS would automatically create a list of the names of the skins in my_skins folder, a file like personal_skins.cfg could contain this list
- when user opens the skin browser in LFS (garage->Colours->Texture name): LFS would check the personal_skins.cfg and show only those skins in the skin browser. LFS would kinda filter out those skins that are not in the list, kinda like "white list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_list)". The actual skins would be loaded from skins_dds folder just like now but only those skins would be shown in skin browser that are in my_skins-folder.
- users save their personal skins in the my_skins folder and LFS would automatically convert those skins to the skins_dds folder at every start.
- there might be a problem that a skin is updated after it has already been converted to dds; the jpg skin file is replaced by newer file either in the my_skins- or in the skins-folders... maybe some kind of time stamp check for the jpg files? Even in the current system an updated jpg skin doesn't automatically get converted and updated automatically in the dds folder?

* With this way all skins are in dds format and all dds-skin-files are in skins_dds folder. So only one place for LFS to look for skins.
* Users are given two folders for their own skins
* easy to use, user doesn't need to know or understand where to put what, just he uses the my_skins folder for his personal skins and all other skins go to the skins folder

Hope it is clear what I mean :D

A lot easier to code than a tickbox system and much more elegant, imho :)

Now, what about that LX8 ;)

[DEVIL 007]

I did read it before but... are you saying it happens every time? If so then maybe we can catch it by adding a lot of log messages.
It happend to my 5th time in a row and I was running Dr.Watson in background but there wasnt any crash adress.LFS just shutdowned to desktop.Suprisingly this now dissapeard but I think there is still probably some "bug" in LFS.I am not running my PC overclocked.

[flinty72]

Yes we have, me at least. Try using ALT+TAB more.

I'm sad for the SHIFT+S change too..
I will try next time it happens but how would ALT+TAB help, it is just the windows shortcut key to change window focus and you need another window open for it to work anyway?

On the Shift+S issue, well you could just bind it to another key within LFS options menu.
Shift+P as the command mapped to one of the function keys/combo's (F1-F8, Ctrl+F1-F12 or ALT+F1-F12). I have it mapped this way then have that LFS button mapped in the logitech profiler so I can activate via my wheel.

[GeForz]

I don't think we need any system to choose which dds file is used by the user. Just make the colours on the left side of the skins you frequently use and that's it. It's not rocket science to select a skin which name you know from a list of files the few times you create a new colour.

The only thing I agree with is to rename skins_x and y to skins_lo and hi :nod:

And if someone else wants to give you his skin in high res he should give you a dds file with a better quality compression which you just put into skin_hi.
(zipped dds file with ~650kb is only ~130kb)

[tox!c]

Dear everybody,
i have some problems with my lfs since w21. Sometimes i get an error when starting the game, sometimes i get an error while driving. These are the errors i get:

AppName:lfs.exe AppVer:0.0.0.0
ModName:ntdll.dll ModVer:5.1.2600.2180
Offset:000106c3 (fehleradresse 0x000106c3)
and (fehleradresse 0x00039d17)
(fehleradresse 0x0a60565d)


Does anyone has an idea how i can fix the problem?

[Hyperactive]

I don't think we need any system to choose which dds file is used by the user. ...

Some people claim to have thousands of skins... kind makes a point ;)

[geeman1]

I don't get the problems you are having with selecting skins. Make color schemes for the skins you use and then you only see the schemes you need and other skin texutres are hidden to you. How often do you even need to change your skin anyway?

[matze54564]

my_skins folder
Thanks a lot for all the true things u wrote.
I want not only a my_skins-folder, i want also a my_scripts, my_engine, my_misc, my_replays etc So why put not all possible My-folders in one mother-folder which is called My_data? This folder should be beside the docs-folder in the LFS-main-folder, because of easier exploring. I mentioned this here not at first time, but how i wrote, whats important for me, ill tell it again and again, because i don´t know whether any developer noticed it. Sorry for a little bit spam in here and thanks for reading.

[Renku]

I will try next time it happens but how would ALT+TAB help, it is just the windows shortcut key to change window focus and you need another window open for it to work anyway?
Whatever it is, it's not a W21 testpatch issue. One old thread is locked and smth got fixed, but few of us still have that "bug". And Scawen doesn't recommend using ALT+TAB, because LFS isn't a "program" like Windows understands it or smth. But I never had any trouble using ALT+TAB. Use what is best for you. Lets not talk about it here anymore, make a new thread if you want to discuss it further.

Old, locked thread: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=14140&highlight=black

[Eldanor]

Shouldn't the text messages be hidden in SHIFT+F mode? I mean the joins & chats, not the flags & splits. I haven't seen it in the thread so don't know if it's a bug or an "undocumented feature" :) and I can't check back in V because I replaced it with W21 :doh:

[flinty72]

Whatever it is, it's not a W21 testpatch issue. One old thread is locked and smth got fixed, but few of us still have that "bug". And Scawen doesn't recommend using ALT+TAB, because LFS isn't a "program" like Windows understands it or smth. But I never had any trouble using ALT+TAB. Use what is best for you. Lets not talk about it here anymore, make a new thread if you want to discuss it further.

Old, locked thread: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=14140&highlight=black

Thanks Renku, wasn't sure if it was W21 bug, so that is why I mentioned it here. I will read the thread you have kindly pointed me too that I never found. Sorry to all & Scawen for wrongly thinking this was a W21 issue. :)

[Burnzoire]

Obviously it doesn't download a skin if it's already in your folder.
edit... I was trying to report a bug, why do you dismiss it so easily? I'll test it again later, but I'm not imagining things when I say I had to download the same skin from the previous night's testing, and vice versa for my friend.

[avaran]

I tried a search, but couldn't find any results on 'Throttle Help', so this is the issue I seem to be having:

After hot lapping with W21, I uploaded my SPR to LFS World and noticed that it reported I was using 'Throttle Help'. I do not have throttle blip on downshift selected, and I am using a manual clutch with a shifter (So no throttle cut on upshift option is available). I don't see anywhere I would of selected any throttle help.

I've taken some screenshots of LFS World, the Hot Lap in question, as well as a previous hotlap with the same settings. (Different Cars/Tracks)

Is this a W21 issue? Or have I somehow selected a driving aid? I seem to remember my previous hotlap for this combo (W17) did not report Throttle Help.

Thanks. :)

[Scottie]

Is anybody else having issues with the lights being very predictable again?

I looked through the change log and the readme and cant see anything regarding being able to define the amount of time the reds are held before green.

Has anything changed code-wise that may inhibit the random pause before green?

[[TDRT] Spøgelset]

Thanks.... but I'm not making much sense out of the log - I can't see anything like a fault address... maybe the info isn't available.

I did read it before but... are you saying it happens every time? If so then maybe we can catch it by adding a lot of log messages.

I got it twice now as well : It´s d3d8.dll related.

[anik360]

If scawen is working this hard then I CANT wait for S3:D:D

[detail]

A quick solution to Shift+S addiction:

Options\Game\Alt+F1..F8, add /shift p in the Alt+F1 box.

So, you use alt+f1 when you want to telepit, and shift+s if you want to spectate immediately.

[tinvek]

exactly, i've always had a pit button bound to the wheel so i can (hopefully) pit before i hit anyone else if (when?) i screw up or if i get pushed onto grass on run to t1

[detail]

I don't see any need in "my skins" folder. You put your skins into skins folder, others' skins go to skins_x or skins_y.

LFS needs
0) renaming and deletion button for color schemes, like for setups
1) timestamp checking if a skin is already converted to dds or if it was updated
2) automatically move large skins to _y and small to _x

_x and _y are the folders where you put the skins you don't want to use yourself. skins folder is for those you may use. That's it.

[MaximUK]

Possible bug.

When I slide off into a large gravel trap I seem to get a lot of echo added to the sounds as if I have slid off into a tunnel. Some of the traps are large and I am no-where near any hard surfaces to cause the extra echo. Once back on the circuit it takes a few seconds for the echo to reduce back to my normal levels. This seems to be whenever I leave the circuit with lots of skid sounds :) not limited to just gravel traps.

I don't think this is limited to the latest W patches though as I have suspected it has been happening for sometime but obviously I don't crash that much to hear it :tilt:. Has anyone else noticed this?

Maxim

[funkdancer]

Just wanted to chip in that W21 is a great update! There seems to be lesss popping in of objects of the ground, hopefully that's not just a figment of my imagination (grid lines etc aren't popping, however graphic such as pit entrance still is).

However, more importantly, the ultra wide is $$@%% awesome. I'm restricting myself to just 135 degrees, but wow, it really opens things up. Less work in TrackIR, my two side screens will easily show cars a lot earlier than before.

I did put 3 pounds in, and the skins look great too. Thanks Scawen :)

Cheers,
Funky of mondaynightracing.com

ps. the earlier issue of names no longer appearing until you're right on top of them with ultrawide setup does now seem to be resolved. Not sure if it made it into the log or not but all feels natural now.

[matze54564]

I don't see any need in "my skins" folder.
In the Skins folder are a lot of default-skins which me confusing. so will a my_skins folder be very great because there are only my own skins without defaults. I´m not sure if you want your zero-point?? zero means nothing, its a non-existent point? :)

[Misko]

Would be nice to make the new hostlist filter can reset default to "no", since default is also "no" for hosts, and idea is to not use that thing anyway.

[danowat]

Hi-res skin question...........

May or may have been asked already, but here goes, imagine the scenario.

I have my settings set to lo-res for a while, download plenty of low-res skins, I suddenly have a fit of madness and pay for hi-res skins, do my current lo-res skins get overwritten by spanky new hi-res ones automatically?, or do I have to clear out the low-res ones for the hi-res ones to replace them?

[detail]

In the Skins folder are a lot of default-skins which me confusing. so will a my_skins folder be very great because there are only my own skins without defaults.
You're right that default skins mess with yours, but what if you want a colour scheme with a default skin?

Well, I don't know, m.b. it is possible to separate defaults into another folder and show them together in skin selection dialog.
I´m not sure if you want your zero-point?? zero means nothing, its a non-existent point? :)
???

[detail]

Hi-res skin question...........

May or may have been asked already, but here goes, imagine the scenario.

I have my settings set to lo-res for a while, download plenty of low-res skins, I suddenly have a fit of madness and pay for hi-res skins, do my current lo-res skins get overwritten by spanky new hi-res ones automatically?, or do I have to clear out the low-res ones for the hi-res ones to replace them?
I may say something stupid, since I have't looked into skins_dds folder at home, but...

I suggest LFS to add suffix to dds files:

skins_y/XRR_SCHNEIDER.jpg (1024) => XRR_SCHNEIDER 1024.dds
skins_x/XRR_SCHNEIDER.jpg (512) => XRR_SCHNEIDER 512.dds

then LFS selects which best suits your settings: min(max(available skins), your settings).

[DEVIL 007]

Hi Scawen,

regarding the bug when LFS shutdown to desktop after pressing the LEAVE button I found something new.I have been today on 24H test server and when there was a few players I didnt got that bug but now there are 19 players and when I pressed LEAVE button LFS again shutdown to the desktop so its somehow related to number of drivers on the server.Again no crash adress however:-(.

[GeForz]

Hi-res skin question...........

May or may have been asked already, but here goes, imagine the scenario.

I have my settings set to lo-res for a while, download plenty of low-res skins, I suddenly have a fit of madness and pay for hi-res skins, do my current lo-res skins get overwritten by spanky new hi-res ones automatically?, or do I have to clear out the low-res ones for the hi-res ones to replace them?

If you set to 512 LFS will only use 512 skins and download them if they are not in the skins_x folder. If you set LFS to 1024 it will only use 1024 skins and download them if they are not in the skins_y folder.

So if you change the setting LFS will download the respective size.

I may say something stupid, since I have't looked into skins_dds folder at home, but...

I suggest LFS to add suffix to dds files:

skins_y/XRR_SCHNEIDER.jpg (1024) => XRR_SCHNEIDER 1024.dds
skins_x/XRR_SCHNEIDER.jpg (512) => XRR_SCHNEIDER 512.dds

then LFS selects which best suits your settings: min(max(available skins), your settings).
There are no downloaded skins in the skins_dds folder. All downloaded skins go to skins_x(512²) and skins_y(1024²) and LFS selects them automatically.



Seriously guys..... please try things out before making a post here.

[DEVIL 007]

I didnt know where to ask that but Scawen did you ever check how much is there overdraw when you see many cars models before you or around you.I know this is wrong thread and kill me for that but it just came on my tongue:shrug:.Probably I spend too much time reading the ATI documents for this:D.Sorry couldnt help myself.Just trying to help :scared:

http://ati.amd.com/developer/tootle.html

[faster111]

I didnt know where to ask that but Scawen did you ever check how much is there overdraw when you see many cars models before you or around you.I know this is wrong thread and kill me for that but it just came on my tongue:shrug:.Probably I spend too much time reading the ATI documents for this:D.Sorry couldnt help myself.Just trying to help :scared:

http://ati.amd.com/developer/tootle.html

Post that in improvements or email it to devs.

[Scawen]

I think I've figured out the occasional crash on leaving game - at least, I found a sufficient explanation for it.

I expect to release that update today, it's a minor update because I've been trying to have a break this weekend, to save my eyes, but had to fix such an important bug as this - crashes really are the worst thing a program can do.

It's frequent enough that we'll know it's fixed if no-one gets in again this evening.

[yegadoyai]

I have had a look through this section and can't find anyone else with this issue but it looks like you can still jump the start. I don;t know if this is intentional or not, or if it was just a glitch.

In the first screenshot you can see that I have engaged 1st before it is green and in the second you can see that I am doing 3mph before it goes green. No penatly was awarded as can be seen from the replay. If it is just a case that I had not passed outside my box on before the green light then I guess that is an accurate simulation of a start but I don;t know if that is the intention. Also this was done with patch W17.

1st gear before start
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/7572/lfsexe0014327iv4.jpg

3mph before start
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9732/lfsexe0014328mb8.jpg

sorry if this has been dealt with but I didn't see anything relating to it.

Edit: resized pictures

[Anman]

I think i came across the leave server bug. I was spectating on a server where a lot of drivers were racing. I checked to see which cars they were using and then left. That is when lfs crashed. This is reproducable.
I got the error report, i was running drwatson but it didnt seem to catch anything. How does that program work?

Anman

[Scawen]

Thanks everyone for the testing. I've released a minor update W23.

Please update to the new version so we'll know if the crash bug is really fixed :

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=24341