Realistic Driving Times

[raizde2]

Hi, I play lfs demo for a while now, and already tried the full game at a friend's house, since I like to drive IRL sports cars, I try to play lfs the closest possible to RL, so I use g25, no aids, 720 degrees, h-shifter...

the problem is that using this setup I can't be as fast as other drivers (for example on Blackwood I run usually at 1.34 on xfg and 1.25 with xrt) so I can only have fun playing single player or in rare servers where I get some demo players that have lap times close to mine. (there are lots of kb or mouse that run at 1.33 or 1.23 so I don't have any fun and I feel that I'm disturbing the race (never got any complaint since I'm a clean driver and I don't defend my place when the other driver is faster)

so the questions are: are there players with same setups doing competitive times? (so I can have hope to one day make a 1.23 with the xrt :) ps: I've done it but with 200 degrees, sequential shifter, auto clutch, blip... but with the above setup I feel that's almost impossible)

will it be possible to have servers only running those kinds of setups? so If I buy the game I can play against people that run in the same conditions?

ps: for the ones that will complain about dividing the people: there are already servers that only allow people running faster than for example 1.34 on xfg, or that only allow some cars... so if I can't enter those servers (and I understand why... running bf1 against xfg or players that run 1.38 on a pro server ruins the race) I should be able to enter servers that only allow for more realistic and harder ways... (I know driving with other controls is also hard... but it's possible (just look at wr's, but with setups like mine I dont know if its possible to brake wr's)

Is it possible to run the bf1 using clutch to start but not to change gear like RL? (same for GTR)

I love LFS :) just feel that some RWD cars (raf, xrt) a bit too hard compared to RL, but heck the RWD cars that I use in RL are better than those :)

I would already bought the game if there was a retail version... but probably going to buy it online in a few weaks... too much work now... don't want to get distracted.

Long Live LFS :)

[MorpheusZero]

Is it possible to run the bf1 using clutch to start but not to change gear like RL? (same for GTR)

The clutch is not needed for shifting the BF1, so yes, you can do this. I think it's required for the GTR cars though.

Long Live LFS :)

Amen.

[BrandonAGr]

I didn't think using a g25 was a disadvantage? Have you run faster times using kb yourself?

[thisnameistaken]

so the questions are: are there players with same setups doing competitive times?

IMHO the extra wheel rotation is probably slowing you down the most. I run my DFP at 420 degrees at the moment because I'm lazy and don't want to be ragging it around after every corner, but I've also found that you can lose a lot of time catching the rear end after a corner when you've got a lot of rotation on your wheel, definitely.

On the other hand I'm pretty sure I'm quicker on most combos now using a clutch pedal, right-foot braking and manual throttle blipping and so on, than I am with left-foot braking, paddle shifters and 200 degrees of steering. It's all about what you're used to.

As for other players: I took part in a race with AndroidXP a few months back in the LX6 around Aston Club, along with a few other very quick racers, and he won the (15 lap, IIRC) race comfortably using the sort of setup you're using.

And he's shit!

[Becky Rose]

. (decided not to post, nothing sinister).

[raizde2]

brandonagr:

kb nop... not even tried, but mouse yes and with my friend's wheel (logitech momo or something 200 degrees)

thisnameistaken:

yes you're right, I also feel that the degrees are the the thing that makes my times worse... especially on xrt which whenever I try harder hotlapping I do powerslides at some turn exits (with 200 I can avoid it) but with less degrees than 720 I dont feel that the sim is close to reallity drift in 200 is too easy, and avoiding driving mistakes also too easy,
I prefer h-shifter... but don't agree that's faster than sequencial... unless you cheat like changing it before clutching or something... if you do it like real life you still loose a bit change gears. if not... f1, rally and gtr would still be using h-shifters IRL :) (but when we get used to it yes it feels like it... but if you practise both you'll see a bit faster times with paddles)

3 more things:
IRL its bad to full throttle at middle of the turn to improve exit speed but all the wr's do it LOL (IRL full throttle with the wheels still turned would make the car spin (which with 720 feels a bit like that)

My setups are from wr's and stuff like that... with low pressure and for mouse or kb probably... so If I had an ideal car setup for my control setup probably would be easier for me, especially for the xrt wich I find too loose on rear wheels.

the manual throttle blip doesnt affect my times but makes me miss some turns (I prefer doing heal-toe with inverted brake pedal like most real cars, I also modded my brake pedal to be higher which improved... but I need a better mod and still the improvement is not that noticeable and with lots of laps I get tired or miss some... on a real car is easier for me)

[chanoman315]

in s2 of course u have competition using a wheel, only because xfg is a slow car, challenge some kb players to use a mrt, f08, bf1, fox, gtr's ,,, u will win absolutely

[thisnameistaken]

I prefer h-shifter... but don't agree that's faster than sequencial... unless you cheat like changing it before clutching or something...

I don't have any experience of using an H-shifter so I can't comment. I use the sequential stick on my DFP with the road cars in LFS, and that's definitely quicker for me in the demo cars than it is to use auto-clutch. In the race cars in S2 it's no advantage though - the cars with sequential gearboxes change gear very quickly with auto-clutch.


IRL its bad to full throttle at middle of the turn to improve exit speed but all the wr's do it LOL (IRL full throttle with the wheels still turned would make the car spin (which with 720 feels a bit like that)

I suppose it depends on the car. In the XRT it's possible to go full throttle at the apex on many corners because it won't go crazy until the turbo kicks in, by which time you've nearly finished the corner. Even with some of the cars that have a lot of immediate power you can still sometimes floor it early and compensate with steering if you have enough practice. Driving like that won't do your tyres much good on long races though. ;)

the manual throttle blip doesnt affect my times but makes me miss some turns (I prefer doing heal-toe with inverted brake pedal like most real cars, I also modded my brake pedal to be higher which improved... but I need a better mod and still the improvement is not that noticeable and with lots of laps I get tired or miss some

Yeah me too, but I still prefer it to left-foot braking. I just prefer having more to do - I get bored if the car is easy to drive.

Looking forward to racing you in S2. I think you'll fit in very well. :)

[SLIDE WAYZ]

i have a dfp, but i use 720 and i use the shifter sucks that i dont have a clutch tho....
i love racing like this because its much more fun....
i dont really car about winning too much but if i win the its a bonus...
i think i have more 2nd places then 3rd and first but that will do for me atleast i no i earned it properly. i dont see why some body would spend £200 on a wheel only to use it in the same manner as a £20 wheel.... and how can people play a race sim with a mouse and keybored. u wouldnt play an army sim with a steering wheel...

[raizde2]

ups I forgot your wheel doesnt have clutch pedal :) yes... so you blip without using heal toe (which sometimes misses :)) yes sequential shifter or paddles is the same... with h-shifter in theory is slower since u press down the cluth pedal (bit slower then a button), than change a gear (also slower with h-shifter) then letting go clutch :)

compensating with a wheel 720 is also possible ( I do it :) but you loose a bit of speed since it takes longer to turn it instead of only 200) to check the difference just see the animated arms... when turning with 200 degrees his arms turn the wheel at impossible speeds to do the 720 :)

chanoman tks for the notice, I went to lfsworld and yes wheel wins kb and mouse on some cars :) the problem is that I bet that almost none uses 900 degrees to do the wr's :)

bradonagr... using g25 is not a disavantage neither in fun :) or speed... but if you use the g25 with more wheel turn it gets funnier (for me at least) but you'll loose speed :( it makes you do more reallistic laps but slower ones, in real life I dont think any race driver would beat the wr's...

it's not as easy to control a car so close to the limit :)


on RBR I always used old driving setup (seq shifter instead of paddles, clutch to change gears... but with 200 degrees, now I tried with paddles no clutch to change gears... but with 540 degrees and my times got worse by 2 secs and I crash a bit more (the degrees change was the factor ... since the rest made it easier)

(never ran a rally car IRL... only made dirt races with a normal car and other stuff, but it's one of my car dreams :) )

well... have to go... I'll check the post tomorrow

oh, Hi Becky :) I love the STCC idea, sorry for the problems you had, hope all gets better, I have all the race broadcasts :)

[Cr!t!calDrift]

...1.34 on xfg and 1.25 with xrt) so I can only have fun playing single player or in rare servers where I get some demo players that have lap times close to mine.
Long Live LFS :)
Fuh...Fuh Fuh!!?! 1:25?! Dang homie you are fast ._. Is that with supers?

Jeeze, even though I am show-drifting, I can only catch myself a 1:33 regular, and a 1:28 as my PB x_x

Maybe I should take up Speed Drifting or Gripping :razz:

and how can people play a race sim with a mouse and keybored. u wouldnt play an army sim with a steering wheel...
I use keyboard and I still kick some arse :D

[raizde2]

Slide wayz:

can you tell me your best time on blackwood with the demo cars using 720? just so I can know how much I can still improve :)

yes, driving with more degrees is awsome :)

and drifting is also much more challenging and fun :) much more smooth movements and throttle control, since u cant save it just by turning the wheel :)

[raizde2]

criticaldrift:

supers?? if you mean the turbo yes (xrt is the turbo and xrg isn't)

I do it with a custom car setup that I got from the internet, with low fuel,... if you cant do at least 1.28 you should go pick a new car setup and watch some wr replays to see the problem

the good racers do 1.33 with xfg and 1.23 with xrt so my times aren't that good.


on a demo server I saw a mouse driver doing all 4 laps after the first one 1.33.00 or close (the server had those pb times and he was always 0.0x from them) ... so he was really something... very regular.

[Jakg]

there are some quick bastards using the mouse, but you should be quicker with a wheel once you get the hang of it, as for a start you can modulate the throttle

[Bladerunner]

A few of us have recently been using the G25 in 'Hardcore Mode' (:)) and we have found almost without exception that our times are about 2%-3% down on our paddle shift/no clutch times.

Yes, I reckon that using a G25 in full sim mode IS slower..but it is a damn sight more fun!

[Flotch]

Is it possible to run the bf1 using clutch to start but not to change gear like RL? (same for GTR)

I love LFS :) just feel that some RWD cars (raf, xrt) a bit too hard compared to RL, but heck the RWD cars that I use in RL are better than those :)

I would already bought the game if there was a retail version... but probably going to buy it online in a few weaks... too much work now... don't want to get distracted.

Long Live LFS :)
:shrug:

[Blackout]

720 degrees is obviously harder but also much more fun than regular 270 degrees. But I reckon that my driving has become much smoother since I got my G25. Because the lock to lock distance is so long I concentrate more to use the smallest amount of turning possible, and it works like a charm.

[sam1600]

I am definitely significantly slower with my G25 than I was with my DFP.

I used to use 500-720 deg on the DFP and, if anything, the G25 wheel is EASIER to use in 720 than the DFP in 500 because the FFB is so much better. So I don't think the wheel turn is slowing you down.

Going from left-foot braking to right-foot braking slows you down considerably, as does having to heel-toe downshift rather than just 'blip' with your right foot.

Gone is your ability to carry a little throttle under brakes (helps with stability without hurting turn-in; sort of a sneaky way to get 'the best of both worlds') and your transition from brake to throttle and vice-versa will inevitably be slower and not as smooth.

I have been a hardcore left-foot braker since GPL back in the day, and in every sim I have played I've always found it beneficial to carry some throttle under brakes... not anymore, I'm afraid!

But, as others have mentioned, it is now way more fun and way more 'realistic'! It would be great if someone setup a hardcore G25 server so that we could all compete against each other.

With regards to setups, be careful with the WR setups as some are designed to be used with a trailing throttle under brakes. Just move the brake bias forward 2-5%, and that should fix any 'spinning-out-under-brakes-if-I-even-THINK-about-turning-in' issues that you (I!) may have.

Viva la G25!

[Bladerunner]

It would be great if someone setup a hardcore G25 server so that we could all compete against each other.


[dSRC] W17-G25 Full Sim (lfs://%7C%5BdSRC%5D+W17-G25+Full+Sim%7C0%7CS2%7C/)

(needs LFS Join pointed to W17 LFS.exe - or just browse for it in the server list :))

:thumb::D

[Clansman]

Hi people,

raizde2, I feel that you may be slower perhaps because you are simply increasing the realism level of your simming experience and that brings additional difficulties - it is just harder!

think about this: imagine driving a real XRT car in a real Blackwood GP track with real weather and real fear of crashing or dying... how close do you reckon you would get to 1:25?

Cheers,

[atledreier]

A few of us have recently been using the G25 in 'Hardcore Mode' (:)) and we have found almost without exception that our times are about 2%-3% down on our paddle shift/no clutch times.

Yes, I reckon that using a G25 in full sim mode IS slower..but it is a damn sight more fun!

What do you mean by Full sim mode? Clutch, 720 and H-shift?

[sam1600]

[dSRC] W17-G25 Full Sim (lfs://%7C%5BdSRC%5D+W17-G25+Full+Sim%7C0%7CS2%7C/)

(needs LFS Join pointed to W17 LFS.exe - or just browse for it in the server list :))

:thumb::D
Fantastic, thanks Bladerunner.

I'm not running W17 as yet - I was going to wait for it to become official. But now... maybe I'll give it a go!

[CharlesMartin]

Speed is not the only issue here too. I drove a lot of races in STCC servers where my lap times were 1 or 2 seconds per lap slower than people around me but they kept crashing, hitting grass etc. which allowed me to score points up to my silver licence and even some victories once in a while

[Greboth]

This hasn't been said here yet but the highger rotation can be slower but it is more accurate and you can be alot smoother with large rotation. Though obviously if you slide it is harder to get it back but thats racing :)
When i first had my g25 i went back to demo as i wanted to race the xfg and i ended up getting within a few tenths of it. My pb is a 1:34.5 and i got times of arouns 1:34.8, it took som getting used to though but it is possible to get close to your pb's. I think it is harder and so generally slower but as said it is alot more fun :D

[sam1600]

Speed is not the only issue here too. I drove a lot of races in STCC servers where my lap times were 1 or 2 seconds per lap slower than people around me but they kept crashing, hitting grass etc. which allowed me to score points up to my silver licence and even some victories once in a while
This is true, but if anything it's harder to maintain consistency with the G25. It's easy to fluff up a shift, and it's harder to be as consistent on the brakes as you have to physically move your foot off one pedal and onto the other.

[morcs]

Reassuring to hear that others are finding it slower too, I find it frustrating but still don't want to go back to paddle shifting road cars.

This will probably sound pretentious but should we invent a name suffix which lets people know we're running gated shifter, 720 degrees, heel-toe, cockpit view? Something like nickname.G25x?

Maybe not :really:

[thisnameistaken]

This will probably sound pretentious but should we invent a name suffix which lets people know we're running gated shifter, 720 degrees, heel-toe, cockpit view? Something like nickname.G25x?

I remember when the G25 came out I saw a lot of racers with "G25" in their nicknames, using it as an excuse for getting beaten. ;)

I still use two pedals in the single-seaters just because they go down the gears so quickly, but I couldn't go back to using two pedals in the tin-tops now, it just feels all wrong.

[Bladerunner]

What do you mean by Full sim mode? Clutch, 720 and H-shift?
Precisely...autoclutch turned off, so you HAVE to use the pedal (which means the possibility of missed gears :))...full 720 deg steering (or whatever the car is supposed to have :)), H-Shifter, cockpit view.
As things stand at the moment, we have to take it on trust that drivers are adhering to these rules on my server, but eventually with the release of patch X and the finalisation of Insim4, I intend to beg a coder to do a small script to ENSURE that people are complying on the server, or a small boot will appear just behind their backsides! :D

[Bob Smith]

You know it's funny, I've never NOT used the G25 in that way. Why else would you spend that much on a wheel set and not use half of it? I've beaten some old pbs running like this too so I really don't believe it's much slower, if you're used to it. LFS is more about getting involves than laptimes anyway (unless you're biggie).

[atledreier]

Yeah, that's the way I use it too.
I even tried it in the BF1, without great success. Taking your hands off the wheel doing 280 through a corner is not recommended! :p

[sam1600]

You know it's funny, I've never NOT used the G25 in that way. Why else would you spend that much on a wheel set and not use half of it? I've beaten some old pbs running like this too so I really don't believe it's much slower, if you're used to it. LFS is more about getting involves than laptimes anyway (unless you're biggie).
Amen, Bob.

On a related note, I set a PB tonight at SO1 in the XRT (52.4x... not exactly setting the world alight!). Admittedly, I had only done a handful of laps there anyway, but I was happy nonetheless! I am definitely getting faster.

I think it will be possible to get very close to WR times with the G25, but I truly believe that left-foot braking and autoclutch will always give you that extra tenth here or there. That said, I think it is literally in the order of tenths (depending on the car/track combo), not seconds, and not enough that people can really blame the G25 for their being slow. A quick driver will be quick with either setup, he will just (most likely) be a smidgen quicker without the G25.

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

Since getting my G25, my times have improved drastically. With a little bit of practice I can generally run about 1s/min off the WR. I run whatever rotation the car has in LFS, and I find that running 720 where applicable actually has helped me a LOT to be precise through corners. It's much easier to make small but precise corrections with larger wheel rotation IMO. If I want to set the faster times I actually use the shifter and drive like a maniac because you can shift VERY quickly using the shifter, and you don't have to flatshift so it sure sounds/feels better. If I visit a combo that I haven't driven in awhile, I invariably smash my PB within a few laps using the G25. I don't always have the energy (read: lack of laziness) to use the H shifter but I can pretty much always get identical times using it. The time lost by manually flailing about is offset by shifting superfast like a nut.

Don't forget most people have driven the XRT/BLGP combo A LOT, so silly fast times are common.

[duke_toaster]

As things stand at the moment, we have to take it on trust that drivers are adhering to these rules on my server, but eventually with the release of patch X and the finalisation of Insim4, I intend to beg a coder to do a small script to ENSURE that people are complying on the server, or a small boot will appear just behind their backsides! :D

Blade, anything like that is pointless - I could probably use a script for the gear changes and get someone to knock something together for the clutch, rotation angle is just a setting. Are you part of the cabal that is forcing us to buy another bloody wheel :D

[thisnameistaken]

Blade, anything like that is pointless - I could probably use a script for the gear changes and get someone to knock something together for the clutch, rotation angle is just a setting. Are you part of the cabal that is forcing us to buy another bloody wheel :D

Meh. We should just set up a "No G25s" server and kick anybody who joins with a H-shifter. :D One in the eye for the elitists!

[Ricou]

Slide wayz:

can you tell me your best time on blackwood with the demo cars using 720? just so I can know how much I can still improve :)

yes, driving with more degrees is awsome :)

and drifting is also much more challenging and fun :) much more smooth movements and throttle control, since u cant save it just by turning the wheel :)


I've been using a dfp @720° + H-Shifter (joystick + FF Shifter) + Clutch for a while, and for sure I've been slower than before for a while.

But now I'm getting used to heel-toe, right foot braking, 720° rotation, and turning the wheel with one hand when shifting ( nobody mentionned it... didnt you notice this issue ? it slowed me down a lot at first !).

And now I'm doing 1.24.xx or sometimes 1.23.xx on BL1 with XRT. So I can tell that even if you are slower with a G25 (or equivalent), it is still possible to be fast.

And as people already said, driving with more degrees teaches you to turn the wheel faster, forces you to drive clean, and gives you more precision. Yes, it is harder to make up for mistakes, but it remains possible too :)

[raizde2]

cool :) tks for all replies

flotch:

as I said I have tried the full game at my friend's house, so yes I've tried all cars... wow the bf1 was really fast :) I did 59 with default setup which I thought it was really fast then I saw the wr :D

[Bladerunner]

Blade, anything like that is pointless - I could probably use a script for the gear changes and get someone to knock something together for the clutch, rotation angle is just a setting. Are you part of the cabal that is forcing us to buy another bloody wheel :D

Not at all..I am talking about ONE server..MINE, that would be set aside at times for people to be able to race on a level playing field.
If you don't want to race with a G25, I cant see anybody twisting your arm to buy one. Furthermore, some people may have a G25, but be unwilling to try the 'full sim' mode, and I wont be forcing THEM to change either.
Simple philosophy, If you don't like heat, don't get a job as a chef! :)

[sam1600]

Since getting my G25, my times have improved drastically. With a little bit of practice I can generally run about 1s/min off the WR. I run whatever rotation the car has in LFS, and I find that running 720 where applicable actually has helped me a LOT to be precise through corners. It's much easier to make small but precise corrections with larger wheel rotation IMO. If I want to set the faster times I actually use the shifter and drive like a maniac because you can shift VERY quickly using the shifter, and you don't have to flatshift so it sure sounds/feels better. If I visit a combo that I haven't driven in awhile, I invariably smash my PB within a few laps using the G25. I don't always have the energy (read: lack of laziness) to use the H shifter but I can pretty much always get identical times using it. The time lost by manually flailing about is offset by shifting superfast like a nut.

Don't forget most people have driven the XRT/BLGP combo A LOT, so silly fast times are common.
What controller setup were you using before you got the G25?

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

MOMO Racing (black) with a cheap clutch pedal.

[Dajmin]

I'd love to see how much better/worse I got with a G25. So anyone wanting to buy me one to find out, please feel free :)

[mrodgers]

Sorry Dajmin, look at our "join dates". I come first! Please send me my free G25! Then send one to Dajmin. :D

EDIT: BAH!!!! Thought my join date was February......... Then just send one to both of us at the same time :D

[Bob Smith]

mrdoges, you signed up 3rd March vs 9th March. You still win. :)

[RaDuS]

get S2 though you wont be dissapointed

[mrodgers]

mrdoges, you signed up 3rd March vs 9th March. You still win. :)
:throwrose

Ok, I'll admit it though. I signed up when I found the LFS demo. The license didn't come until the S2 release.... :hidesbehi