Season Rules Discussion

[Arrow.]

These are the rules from last season. lets improve them for this up coming season

Disconnection
If you lose connection after lap 5 you can rejoin and finish the race pitstop is not Mandatory. If you lose connection between lap 0 - 5 you can rejoin and finish you must pit before lap 45
You must cross finish line to receive points


Race Restarts
Can only be done by race control if they consider it to be a unfair start
eg 50% of drivers crash
during Lap 1 only
Vote restart is not aloud

Pitting
Must Pit between lap 5 - 45
Failing to do so will result in penalty
Must keep in between yellow lines at all times

Flags
Yellow Flag: Caution Crash ahead, avoid overtaking until track is clear. Failing to do this safely will result in a penalty
Blue Flag: Drivers that are a lap down or receive the blue flag. Please pull over to the side of the track, safely letting the cars behind you by. It is suggest that you indicate to which side of the track you are going. Failing to do this safely will result in a penaltyTrack Cutting
If you cut the track to give you a time advantage you will be warned if you continue to do so you will be disqualified from the race

Resets
only use resets when there is no other way to continue and when no others drivers will be infected in any way.

Chatting
There should be no chatting in Qualifying or Race
If you need to talk to Race control contact them through teamspeak
or only contact them in game if its a emergency.

[Davo]

Here are my opinions on the rules.

I think once you disconnect, race over. Sorry but people will abuse this just to get points they don't deserve. Think of it as a mechanical failure and you're car is out.

Race should never be restarted. This will promote better behaviiour on lap 1 since there's no chance of a restart.

Who's going to enforce no crossing yellow lines? You'd have to watch the whole replay sitting on pitlane. If you cause an incident entering or leaving pitlane then you are at fault always would be a better rule. Upto drivers to report to tribunal.

Overtaking on yellow, again who is going to enforce this? Guess it ouwld have to be upto the driver to report this.

Everyone should know how to handle blue flags, indicating etc is too distracting, this isn't some cruise server. If there is some contact it should be reviewed to see who was at fault but both cars should be aware when lapping. No barging past or blocking. Again upto the driver to report an incident.

With the new patches it resets the whole car, fixes damage and gives you fresh tyres. Land on your roof or get stuck. Race over. Perhaps you could introduce a pace car and a tow car to pull people out of sand traps.

Lag. At anytime, before practice, during practcie or during qual if anyone mentions lag another server should be found and tested for no lag. If the cuase of lag is a driver, he should be asked to leave and fix the connection by stopping downloads etc. If the problem can't be fixed then they miss out because it ruins the race for everyone else.

Gona love this one. No bringing up racing incidents in the public forum. Report all protests to the admin/tribunal within 24 hours of race finishing with as much detail as possible.

[r4ptor]

Track Cutting
If you cut the track to give you a time advantage you will be warned if you continue to do so you will be disqualified from the race


Define "cut" please, so we can have a common understanding of this.

Chatting
There should be no chatting in Qualifying or Race
If you need to talk to Race control contact them through teamspeak
or only contact them in game if its a emergency.

"Should" suggest you can if needed - and we saw in previous season that there was too much chat. It should instead be "No chatting... " (at all) - execpt quali - I don't think its too important to keep it clean, as drivers can block messages without worrying about messages from the admins.


I think once you disconnect, race over. Sorry but people will abuse this just to get points they don't deserve. Think of it as a mechanical failure and you're car is out.


I see you point, but I don't think it would be necessary if admins were more observant about what goes on on the tracks - it doesn't really have to be during the race either, but the should be hard, but accordantly.

I don't think there are too many who abuses this, and why should the majority then have to suffer when they had put down time to prep for the event?


Race should never be restarted. This will promote better behaviiour on lap 1 since there's no chance of a restart.


Never restart except for extreme situations (like big time server lag) = +1 from me.


With the new patches it resets the whole car, fixes damage and gives you fresh tyres. Land on your roof or get stuck. Race over. Perhaps you could introduce a pace car and a tow car to pull people out of sand traps.


This sounds very interesting and could add what we miss nearly every time a pace car gets out - however lame it may seem, I think it could still be a cool thing:

A driver lands on his roof (for example) - pace car gets deployed along with a tow car (a random car obviously - but deployed with the pace car since it can't really deploy from somewhere else on the track). The tow car pushes the wrecked car off the track while the pace car keeps going on the track till tow car is done. After both the tow and the wrecked car are safetly away from track, they shift+s and pace car enters the pits.

Far from perfect, but worth a shot :D


Lag. At anytime, before practice, during practcie or during qual if anyone mentions lag another server should be found and tested for no lag. If the cuase of lag is a driver, he should be asked to leave and fix the connection by stopping downloads etc. If the problem can't be fixed then they miss out because it ruins the race for everyone else.


I agree with missing out the race if a driver lags, but other than that this could easily be more abused that the re-join rule/option. Some ppl are more sensitive to lag than others even though it isn't really that bad for them, so in case they truly believe the lag is an issue (but it isn't - they are just too sensitive about it), it would just delay things and annoy everyone.


Gona love this one. No bringing up racing incidents in the public forum. Report all protests to the admin/tribunal within 24 hours of race finishing with as much detail as possible.

I agree, however - when needed both parties should be able to tell their side of the story - it probably wont happen allot, but should be considered rather than blindly assuming anything.

[Greboth]

Define "cut" please, so we can have a common understanding of this.

Agreed is a cut the complete cut of the corner (take fe chicances you can completly straight line them on grass) or do you count all 4 wheels over the white line cutting?

Never restart except for extreme situations (like big time server lag) = +1 from me.
Agreed also but there has to be more leway than just lag as you can obviously end up with 90% of the field taken out due to one person's mistake. If you look at real life racing, the races are stopped and restarted, usually allowing the switch to spare cars.

Some kind of safety car i think would be good as simulates real life better but as we don't have a way to tow car's, or roll them back to the right way up etc then some thought needs to be taken into how will the safety car be used.

Lag/disconnect issue - If the person disconnect then comes back 30 laps later, no their result should not count. If the person lags out for whatever reason but instantly rejoins and completes whole race then could be a thought to let their postion stand.

Gona love this one. No bringing up racing incidents in the public forum. Report all protests to the admin/tribunal within 24 hours of race finishing with as much detail as possible.
I agree, however - when needed both parties should be able to tell their side of the story - it probably wont happen allot, but should be considered rather than blindly assuming anything.

Well my thought on reporting incidents could be - No discussion on forum's (not public ones anyway) about the incident but if a driver makes a complaint against another (in this example ill complain about you r4ptor) then i would complain and voice my opinion in private to whoever is being the steward, then on the forum could post up "complaint made by Greboth against r4ptor, lap 30" or even by pm so that then r4ptor could voice his opinion. This way it would keep it all private while allowing the discussion of and deliberation of the incident.

[arco]

About this track cutting thing, and staying between the lines... is this something that's enforced in real racing? I can't remember ever seeing something like that in real races. That would mean like if someone in WRC hit a stone and went off the road, they weren't allowed to carry on? Or someone in F1 did a spin in one corner and went onto the grass they couldn't continue? And this nonsense of staying between the lines on the track... You would need to watch the replay with each and every driver all through to make sure they did. Imo the track is there to be used, and enforcing these "stay between the lines" and "track cutting" rules will just result in people trying to add to their own advantage by filing a protest against every little silly thing. (Just ask Kaw about the Danish Championship.)

[Greboth]

About this track cutting thing, and staying between the lines... is this something that's enforced in real racing? I can't remember ever seeing something like that in real races. That would mean like if someone in WRC hit a stone and went off the road, they weren't allowed to carry on? Or someone in F1 did a spin in one corner and went onto the grass they couldn't continue? And this nonsense of staying between the lines on the track... You would need to watch the replay with each and every driver all through to make sure they did. Imo the track is there to be used, and enforcing these "stay between the lines" and "track cutting" rules will just result in people trying to add to their own advantage by filing a protest against every little silly thing. (Just ask Kaw about the Danish Championship.)

It obviously inforced in rally or when someone crashes or spins. It is however enforced during racing. Brands hatch is a good example coming out of T1 people run wide but they do penalise some racing (depends on each set of rules) for going over the white line while racing. In lfs the best example i can think ois the last left hander at bl1 which goes on to start/finish straight as everyone goes really far right over the white line.
How to enforce it in sim racing i dont know, maybe with the new patch could have an official watching one place each watching people come round. Depends how the rule of cutting is defined though.

[BenjiMC]

or you could just upload a layout with a marshal zone there. but in any case, it's a waste of space.

[jamesrowe]

or you could just upload a layout with a marshal zone there. but in any case, it's a waste of space.
Yeah and get it like CLC so that we lose our car as soon as we hit that zone :D

[r4ptor]

ill complain about you r4ptor

:elefant:

[Greboth]

or you could just upload a layout with a marshal zone there. but in any case, it's a waste of space.

Would it really work though as if you got tapped and run a little wider or tighter then you could get pitted or spectated for an accident which you could onf continued racing from.

:elefant:
Z0MG!!!! TeH r4ptorz spa/\/\m3R! Got to beat you anyway possible :shy:

[Arrow.]

How about this

Disconnection
If you disconnect or lose connection you are unable to rejoin the race
You must cross finish line to receive points

Race Restarts
Can only be done by race control if they consider it to be a unfair or dangerous start
eg 50% of drivers crash or high level of lag
Restarts can only a cure in lap 1
Vote restarting is not aloud

Pitting
Must Pit between lap 5 - 45enter and exit the pits safely there should be no contact
No Pitting will result in DNP, 0 pointsFlags
Yellow Flag: Caution Crash ahead, avoid overtaking until track is clear. Failing to do this safely will result in a penalty
Blue Flag: Drivers that are a lap down or receive the blue flag. Please pull over to the side of the track, safely letting the cars behind you by. It is suggest that you indicate to which side of the track you are going. Failing to do this safely will result in a penaltyTrack Cutting
Cutting track in order to gain a time advantage is not acceptable
will result in a penalty

Resets
Are not to be used. if you cannot continue driving thats the end of your race

Chatting
Only Chatting in Practise is acceptable
Chatting in qualifying should be kept to a minimum
Chatting during race is strictly prohibited
Jodging a Complaint
If you would like to jodge a complain please pm me
player names:
Lap:
Race Time:
What happened:
The complaint will be forwarded the the tribunal board they will come to a conclusion on a penalty. From there the decision is final

What do you think of something like this, of course needs to be worded better :shrug:

[Davo]

Sounds good. Everyone should know the clean racers club rules btu you might want to link to them too.

I tihnk you mean lodge a complaint instead of jodge :)

[keithano]

Rules are looking better and better! Any idea about the structure and schedule of the coming season?

[Greboth]

Those rules sound fair and removes most of the complaints from last season such as rejoining :thumb:

[BenjiMC]

Define cutting, do you mean 2 wheels over is ok like at FE chicanes or do you mean not a wheel over any lines ever?

I'm also thinking of doing driver swaps on all those 2 hour races we've got lined up ;)

[anttt69]

What are the rules re driver swapping? & how many represent in each event?

[MyBoss]

[/B][/U]Must Pit between lap 5 - 45
[I]Failing to do so will result in penalty
Must keep in between yellow lines at all times




Why do you have to be inside the lines when you're going into the pits? They don't have this rule in F1.

[Kaw]

Why do you have to be inside the lines when you're going into the pits? They don't have this rule in F1.

Because it could cause a crash if you dont, and to be on the safe side.

And this aint F1:D

[Jakg]

those rules sound fairly affable - for cutting, do you count the kerb as part of the track or not, though?

[r4ptor]

"There should be no chatting in Qualifying or Race"

Please change that to "... no chatting allowed during race" - I personally don't care much about quali, as long blocking is allowed in it.

[anttt69]

- I personally don't care much about quali, as long blocking is allowed in it.

Err no, imo that is not a good idea. Getting blocked on your flying lap is incredibly annoying :arge:. Also teams could send out a driver purposely to block an opposing teams quali driver, its gona cause arguments. Intentional blocking should not be allowed during qualifying.

[Jonesy_]

antt, I'm pretty sure he meant by blocking as blocking the messages, not blocking the fellow driver :)

[r4ptor]

:elefant: :razz:

[speedway]

about cutting....i do agree that cutting shouldnt be allowed and maybe even made impossible by creating a layout on "demands for cutting"-corners (e.g. the chicane when leaving the oval on ky3) .... this shouldnt be done in such an extreme way as on ctra servers though

also, imo curbs are part of the track and it should be allowed to use them

[anttt69]

:doh:

[Greboth]

about cutting....i do agree that cutting shouldnt be allowed and maybe even made impossible by creating a layout on "demands for cutting"-corners (e.g. the chicane when leaving the oval on ky3) .... this shouldnt be done in such an extreme way as on ctra servers though

also, imo curbs are part of the track and should be allowed to be used

Problem with the layout is that it punishes people who don't deserve to be punished. Take your example of ky3 chicane, If I am braking and the person behind brakes a little late, runs into the back of me then I possibly wont be able to make the corner and run into the anti cutting objects.
Curbs shouldn't be counted as cutting IMO.

AFAIK all the tracks in lfs have the white line around the edge, so maybe off track should count as in if 3 wheels or more are over the white line is off the track and result in a penalty. This allows curbs to be used as only 2 wheels will cross the line while removing cutting and using parts that are not the track. The problem comes though of how to enforce the rule while keeping it fair to people who cross the lines due to circumstances.

[lococost]

I'ld like to see some change in how complaints are handled. Last season this was a bit of a mess and numerous complaints are still undecided. I suggest only team managers make complaints and only team managers should be able to discuss complaints. There should also be a time within which complaints should be handled and decided on. something like 24h max to make your complaint, 48h max to get a decision from the jury.

As for cutting, it should be allowed as long as you dont get an advantage.

[Alles]

Track Cutting
Cutting track in order to gain a time advantage is not acceptable
will result in a penalty

like some said... Do an inspection on where you can cut on certain track, and put baricades there. extra tyres, wall and so on

[[DUcK]]

or just do it in normal rl racing, where two wheels on a kerb (thats what they are there for), or two wheels of the grass... but any significant cutting should result in some sort of time penalty, like +2.00 or something silly like that :D

[anttt69]

These are the rules from last season. lets improve them for this up coming season

Disconnection
If you lose connection after lap 5 you can rejoin and finish the race pitstop is not Mandatory. If you lose connection between lap 0 - 5 you can rejoin and finish you must pit before lap 45
You must cross finish line to receive points


I think no points for a DSC is bit harsh in many cases, for example: your team has been driving for one hour & about to secure a good result when two laps from the end they have connection probs & DSC. To give no points would seem a hard line to take.

How about you receive a percentage of the points based on race distance completed & position in race before DSC?

[germanpio]

90% like F1?

[anttt69]

no reply on the DSC ruling?? (few posts back)

Also when & where can we find the finished rules & regs for the series. There seems to be a lot of things still open to debate. Only 3 weeks to go guys.

[Arrow.]

Now Most things have been sorted out.
The Rules will be made over the weekend, please post any suggestion or criticism you may have. Thanks

[PaulC2K]

I also wanted to add what i see Mr Pio has added, can we also introduce a 90% race distance rule in order to score, for disconnections as well as people deciding they cant be arsed taking part and instead of parking the car in the pitlane and then crossing the line when the race is over just so they can score points.
Either you take part or go home!

Also theres still a few things that are vague in the rules, things like the cutting, its all good and well saying no cutting to save time, but exactly what is your definition of cutting? touching a blade of grass, all 4 wheels off the track intentionally, is it to be applied to repetitive cutting or every single time its done???
These sort of things need to be put down in black and white, giving no room for individual interpretation which ends up with differing opinions on what is and isnt acceptable.

Yellow flags & no overtaking isnt going to be an easy one to rule on either, its described a little grey to start with, and then you also have the issue of irratic appearances of the yellow warning and the fact that most people see it as just a driving aid to warn you of whats coming up, screw slowing down and observing the caution, its little more than a 'hazard ahead' warning and its going to be pretty tough to curb peoples typical reaction to these messages.

[Michel 4AGE]

Do the rules say anything about drafting during Qualify ?

[Arrow.]

Updated Version of the Rules please give feedback

Disconnection
If you disconnect or lose connection you are unable to rejoin the race.
All DNF or Loss of Connection are placed behind all finishers. If there are a number of non finishes it will be ordered by the number of laps completed then by the server#
Example: Player 1 DNF lap 2 (server #1), Player 2 DNF lap 2 (Server#2). Player 1 will finish above Player 2.
You must cross finish line to receive points

Connection/Lag
Before you launch LFS please ensure all the unnecessary programs are closed.
Lag will not be used as a excuse for racing incidents
Example: music, instant web messaging, emails, internet explorer,

Race Restarts
There will be no Restarts. Unless there is a serious problem with the server or grid spots

Pit Lane
Speeding in Pit Lane will result in a automatic drive through penalty.
Enter Pit lane and exit in a safe manor. you Must stay between the yellow lines when exiting pit lane. It is recommended you do the same entering pit lane.

Flags
Yellow Flag: Caution Crash ahead, avoid overtaking until track is clear.
Blue Flag: Drivers that are a lap down or receive the blue flag. Will need to move off the race line for the car behind. The lead car should not have lost any time. When passing. avoid erratic movements.Racing Conduct
Drivers must overtake in a safe and respectful manner. Drivers should have at least a half-car overlap on another car before committing to an overtaking maneuver.

When overtaking and defending, a driver must give racing room to the attacking car in order to account for lag, brake lockups, understeer, over steer.

Driver may change there race line to defend, once then return to race line. Continuous line changing is not allowed when defending

Bump Drafting in Racing is allowed, providing it is done in a safe manor.

Qualifying
In Qualifying any form of contact is not allowed, eg Bumpdrafting

Track Cutting

Outside of Corner
2wheels in grass: Is fine providing there was no time advantage and you rejoin the circuit safely.
4wheels in grass: Is fine providing there was no time advantage and you rejoin the circuit safely.

Inside of Corner
2wheels in grass: could possibly be given a penalties if there is a time advantage and is used consistently
4 wheels in the grass: Will result in a penalty, as it is shortening the track and giving time advantage which is unfair to other competitiors
If you Cut the track because of driver error ect. Attempt to slow down and rejoin the track safely.
Curbs, ripple strips, bitumen are allowed to be used

Resets and Shift + P (telepit)
Are strictly not allowed

Chatting
Practise: Chatting is allowed.
Qualifying: Chatting is allowed but should be kept to a minimum.
Race: Chatting is not allowed. unless very important.
You will have a warning. If you continue it will result in a drive through penalties

Lodging a Complaint
If you would like to jodge a complain please fill in a complaint form on the BOTT website (link to come) you have 48 hours to lodge your complaint
player names:
Lap:
Race Time:
What happened:
The complaint will be forwarded to the opposite party to tell there side to the story. Then tribunal board they will come to a conclusion on a penalty. From there the decision is final.

Penalty Scale
Warning
Level 1 Time Added to total race time
Level 2 moved lower position
Level 3 Disqualified from the round
Level 4 Team Disqualified from the Series

[germanpio]

Race Restarts
Can only be done by the server admin. If there is a server issue or is considered to be unfair start. Eg 50% crash lap
Vote restarting is not aloud

How about a simple "No" ?

Pit Lane
Speeding in Pit Lane will result in a automatic drive through penalty.
Enter Pit lane and exit in a safe manor.

What about the lines? Can we cross them? (if nobody is passing atm)

Chatting
Race: Chatting is not allowed. unless very important.
How will this be punished? time penalty per line?

[Storm_Cloud]

I would also go for no restarts unless there is a server problem or the grid is in the wrong order. If 60% of the field crash then tough luck on them. In a long race there is still lots of time to make up positions. A rule that is not open to interpretation is less likely to cause argument.

[BurnOut69]

Race Restarts
Can only be done by the server admin. If there is a server issue or is considered to be unfair start. Eg 50% crash lap
Vote restarting is not aloud



I would go for no restarts at all. People is way more careful when knowing there is not a 2nd chance.

Pit Lane
Speeding in Pit Lane will result in a automatic drive through penalty.
Enter Pit lane and exit in a safe manor.


You should elaborate this. Being able to cross the pit lane entry line, but NEVER the pit lane exit works in most series. Also, there should be special pit lane rules for the oval.


Flags
Yellow Flag: Caution Crash ahead, avoid overtaking until track is clear.
If overtaking is the only safe thing to do, I would allow it as long as the overtaking car gives back the position when the track is clear again.


Blue Flag: Drivers that are a lap down or receive the blue flag. Will need to move off the race line for the car behind. The lead car should not have lost any time. When passing. avoid erratic movements.
Moving off the line has never been a good idea. Makes for lapped drivers crossing the track from side to side. Just use common sense!


When being overtaken, a driver must give racing room to the attacking car in order to account for lag, brake lockups, understeer, over steer.

So if Im being attacked I must give room to the overtaking car just so his crap line causing lag doesnt cause trouble? The attacking car should be the one being careful, not the defending one! :)


Chatting
Practise: Chatting is allowed.
Qualifying: Chatting is allowed but should be kept to a minimum.
Race: Chatting is not allowed. unless very important.


I vote for no chatting at all in race. Chat = DT.

My 2c.

[Michel 4AGE]

So to get this clear:

During qualy I'm allowed to bump draft behind my team mate to get a higher topspeed and thus a higher qualy position ?

:really:

[Storm_Cloud]

Yellow flag:

Almost impossible to police a no overtaking rule. However, how about if someone causes a further accident in a yellow flag zone, especially if they hit someone who has slowed down to avoid an accident gets a penalty?

[Greboth]

I would go for no restarts at all. People is way more careful when knowing there is not a 2nd chance.

There has to be some circumstance where the race will be re-started. Last season we were racing fox at FE gold and the lag was horrible and about 90% of the field got taken out at T1 due to it. The race re-started on a different server.

[P1lot]

Cutting Inside of Corner
2wheels in grass: could possibly be given a penalties if there is a time advantage and is used consistently
I'm surprised because this is more onerous than the hotlap system. There are several places where it is normal for everyone to get a couple of wheels dirty, every chicane probably.

The hlvc checks for 2 wheels on track all the time - track includes curbs, fake grass stuff, rumble strips etc.

[anttt69]

So if Im being attacked I must give room to the overtaking car just so his crap line causing lag doesnt cause trouble? The attacking car should be the one being careful, not the defending one! :)


Yes I agree, the overtaker must be the one who takes care to make a fair racing pass on the overtakee. Track position must be respected. You cannot expect someone who is being pressured for position to leave extra space, it is up to the driver behind to overtake cleanly.

[anttt69]

You must cross finish line to receive points

Racing Conduct
Drivers must overtake in a safe and respectful manner. Drivers should have at least a half-car overlap on another car before committing to an overtaking maneuver.

When being overtaken, a driver must give racing room to the attacking car in order to account for lag, brake lockups, understeer, over steer.



I'm no fan of the hard line approach to DSC's. What if you;ve been driving for a hour, only 10laps from the finish & your connection drops through no fault of your own?? To receive no points at all would seem quite harsh imo.

Passing: Half a car overlap at what point?? The standard rule is @ point of turn in. Can we clarify this?

As for a driver being overtaken giving room: "You cannot expect someone who is being pressured for position to leave extra space, it is up to the driver behind to overtake cleanly."

[Kaw]

So to get this clear:

During qualy I'm allowed to bump draft behind my team mate to get a higher topspeed and thus a higher qualy position ?

:really:

Yes of course it is.

What do you think yourself ?

[PaulC2K]

Bump-Drafting should be outlawed, IMO at least, its just not racing and while it may be used in Nascar or similar, really it just doesnt happen, its not pleasent to watch and seeing it being abused to me is disappointing, but how do you enforce it?

2 wheels off the race track is racing, few series would punish for pushing the car in such a manner, however consistantly putting all 4 wheels on the grass and showing no real intention to do otherwise should result in punishment.

Disconnections, as i just mentioned in the scoring thread, maybe 50% of last place points should be awarded, its a deterrent to people deciding to leave during the race because they'd get half the points (or less) they would get if they stayed put, and anyone unlucky enough to be disconnected receives a minor consolation that doesnt punish the teams scoring too heavily.

Also agree completely with the comments about overtaking, both drivers should drive with caution, however the attacking driver is the one making the move, and it should be his responsibility to do so cleanly, obviously if the defending driver acts unfairly/unsportingly resulting in an incident then obviously its the defending drivers responsibility, they cant use this rule as an excuse to act unfairly and blame the attacker for not keeping it clean.


Last one, Submitting a complaint, i think that when a complaint is lodged against a driver, they should have the right to be informed of this and the opportunity to put their side of the story across. Agree that it should be kept out of public discussion, however i dont feel it is fair to be under review and have no right to defend yourself when the circumstances require it. If you view the incident, and consider it to be nonsense then you dont need to call the other driver in, however if your considering punishment the other party should have the ability to pass comment too.
I say this because if you pass an incident off as being no more than a racing accident/incident and the same thing happens again, with the other party feeling differently to how you felt about being on the receiving end of the same thing, then for one person to request punishment for something you've passed as being part and parcel of racing, it doesnt strike me as being fair. Nothing to do with payback, just different peoples interpretations and experience of an incident, each party should have a voice.

[Kaw]

Of course it should, it was just to point out that common sense can be used.

Just because LFS tweak or something Isnt named in the rule set doesnt mean that you can power your way down bl1r straight with 1000 mph.:tilt:

[PaulC2K]

As you dont make it clear what 'of course it should' is in reference, ive no idea what your commenting on.

Kaw, if you want to use LFSTweak, you have my permission!
Good look getting into the server though ;)

[lococost]

Kaw was replying on the bumpdrafting issue.

Imo Michel's comment is valid.
Anyway bumpdrafting isn't just for nascar, I know it used to be quiete common in the citroen saxo cup, if you have the patience watch the linky below for some catherham bumdrafting action, vid has that LFS reality feel to it. (right click-save as-takes a while)

http://supervroum.noalia.net/chameau/spy/bestofcaterham2005.wmv

[Arrow.]

Rules have been updated in above thread

Qualifying
In Qualifying any form of contact is not allowed, eg Bumpdrafting

When overtaking and defending, a driver must give racing room to the attacking car in order to account for lag, brake lockups, understeer, over steer.

[PaulC2K]

Kaw was replying on the bumpdrafting issue.

Imo Michel's comment is valid.
Anyway bumpdrafting isn't just for nascar, I know it used to be quiete common in the citroen saxo cup, if you have the patience watch the linky below for some catherham bumdrafting action, vid has that LFS reality feel to it. (right click-save as-takes a while)

http://supervroum.noalia.net/chameau/spy/bestofcaterham2005.wmv

Hmm, thats quite cool, i'd never have thought that they'd get away with being able to do that, not in an against the rules way, but in a driver safety and physically being able to do it kinda way. Shame the video is a bit choppy for footage rather than whole laps or something, but nice eitherway.