Incompatible TEST W17 - 32 Cars

[Scawen]

WARNING : THIS IS A TEST

Hello racers.

Here is a new test patch W17 allowing 32 cars in a race!
It can play hotlaps made by the old versions, even though there is one physics addition - clutch preload.
It's also incompatible for various other reasons :
- it can allow up to 32 cars in a race, in S1 or S2 mode.
- a global class balancing system which is currently applied to the TBO and GTR classes.
- various other multiplayer improvements.

W17 fixes some of the bugs in the W10 version - please read the list of changes below.

Changes in TEST PATCH W17 :

IMPROVEMENTS :

Max cars in multiplayer race increased to 32
InSim updated, allowing up to eight TCP connections
Small map colours : Options... Display... Interface
Removed the sound of a player pitting or spectating
Last loaded layout name visible after track changed
Start lights interval now between 1 and 4 seconds
Removed digital speedo option from view options
Qualifying session now starts from the pits
Added button to spectate from garage

FIXES :

Wrong screen message "x was banned" after an OOS disconnection
AI did not use correct car colours when added in game with /ai
Could start in reverse if changing down at end of last race
Show driver in garage allowed more penalty weight to be added

Changes in TEST PATCH W10 :

IMPROVEMENTS :

Immediate join at start of qualifying now starts from pit box
Connection bars are not drawn if they would obscure tyre info
Single player now allows up to 20 ai cars (powerful pc needed)
Small map cars more than one lap ahead are a different colour
Autocross : 28 results now stored - scroll with PgUp / PgDn
Added handicap mass and restriction to hotlap file header
Demo races limited to 12 cars (15 guests still allowed)
Better messages showing the reason for disconnection
Maximum added mass limited to around 20% of car mass
Admin can see kick and ban buttons even if /vote=no

FIXES :

Incorrect false start penalties while stationary at start
Displayed mass in garage flickered while moving handicap slider
False start penalty was given for an early start in qualifying
Corrected width of split time difference (in live position list)
Wrong "A race is starting" if track changed but no race started
Joining a waiting start grid sometimes produced a false start
Could quickly pit and return to grid to remove a false start
Skins used in race were not stored correctly in MP replays
Admins could not kick or ban using the list of connections
Could be given a pit penalty on a track with no pit lane
MRT would fly about if voluntary added mass was too high

Changes in TEST PATCH W9 :

Car is no longer held at start line - false starts possible
Start lights time between red and green is changed each race
Implemented the canreset option while leaving hotlaps valid
Added preload setting to clutch pack differentials
Increased number of cars in race from 20 to 28
Increased number of connections from 24 to 48
Single player and demo races now up to 16 cars
Start and pit fuel loads range from 1% to 100%
New voluntary handicap system in pits (part of setup)
Remote car's handicap shown in F11 menu, tyres in F12 menu
Global handicaps for class balancing (set by master server)
Removed the need to pass a split after receiving admin penalty
Start grid remains when track or config changes (if possible)
More commands now work on AI drivers : /spec /pitlane /p_xxx
More commands work even if player joining e.g. /spec /laps
Grid reordering is now done on end race as well as restart
New /i command to send a message to a race control program
Added short track name to SPR, MPR and RAF file formats
More race tracking info added to InSim (see InSim.txt)
Admins can now see other admins in list of connections
Admins can now edit and /axsave layouts while online
Admin ban dialog now asks for a number of days to ban
Added text on screen showing the reason for a penalty
Race penalty can now be removed with /p_clear command
Send all players to their pits with /pit_all command
Autocross results table only shows best 12 results
Timeout for dead connection reduced to 12 seconds
Kick and ban votes are held open a little longer
Removed the option not to use HVS if available
SHIFT + S enters garage from game setup screen
SHIFT + O enters options from SP replay
Display option : Virtual steering gauge
Display option : Rotate small map

FIX : F12 now shows "Pit stop required : OK" correctly
FIX : Find user in S2 mode looking for racer on S1 host
FIX : Message "NETWORK FATAL : NOTSOCK" when joining a host
FIX : Autocross layout number of laps sometimes did not load

DOWNLOAD :

PATCH (Version W must already be installed) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_TEST_W17.exe

ZIP VERSION (If you prefer a zip file) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_TEST_W17.zip

DEDICATED HOST (for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_W17.zip

[Blackout]

32?! omg :S

And quali fromg pits, yay!

With this pace I have to update my computer soon, dam you Scawen! :D

[duke_toaster]

32 sounds good, some older pc's might have issues tho. DLing :)

[Renku]

Nice, my W10 "saw" W16 server on the servers list, but not "that" W17 one. I think I can see more clrearly now :nod:.

[LFSn00b]

W17? I have missed 7 patches... :schwitz:

[MaximUK]

W17? I have missed 7 patches... :schwitz:

Don't worry W11 - W16 only dealt with changes to the Insim packet structure

Maxim

[Boris Lozac]

32 cars!!!?? Hell yeah! :thumb:

[Bob Smith]

32 cars on track? FE Club is gonna get manic. :D

Just to clarify, I'm assuming the "digital speedo option" is removing a duplicate or something, so the digital speedo is still actually possible? Will update this post once I've tested...

[duke_toaster]

W17? I have missed 7 patches... :schwitz:

I think they were InSim only.

Scawen, this is kinda off topic, a bit on topic ... it's on the line really (due to the minimap colouring). When a setup slider is right clicked on, a number can be typed in - maybe that could be done for the colour ones (I don't care if it's an AI or not, it's still a car).

[St4Lk3R]

32 cars on track? FE Club is gonna get manic. :D

Just to clarify, I'm assuming the "digital speedo option" is removing a duplicate or something, so the digital speedo is still actually possible? Will update this post once I've tested...

Of course it is still accessible. It was in fact duplicated - AFAIK also appeared in Player setup screen or something like that.

[geeman1]

zOMG!

[LFSn00b]

32 cars on track? FE Club is gonna get manic. :DNot to mention SO Sprint 2 :D

[AndroidXP]

The SO Sprint tracks still only allow 16 cars ;)

[banshee56]

W11-W16 were InSim changes.

EDIT: Wow....I'm....slow.

[Dj-Aeri]

The AI's can´t qualify :(

[RSchumacher]

Scawen ... I LOVE YOU !!!
These changes are in my opinion some of the most important in the last time ... I mean, 32 players is absolutely amazing, but starting the qualy is a very important step to the more realistic sim. Keep on it ;)

[duke_toaster]

but starting the qualy from pits and taking away the digital speedo are very important steps to a more realistic sim. Keep on it ;)

It starts from pits but the digital speedo is still there (some people use it and it's more realistic for a lot of cars).

[Paranoid Android]

Is the digital speedo really off? Can't test the patch from where I am...If it is can't say I really understand the move...

[KeiichiRX7]

anyone notice that if you make a new setup, you're suddenly on the "Brakes" tab?

[N I K I]

WOW 32 cars in race :thumb:, this is going to be so good for MoE and other Enduro leagues.... Thank you Scawen whit all my hart.

[Blackout]

Pit limiter isn't on when the quali starts (tested in singleplayer) like normally when you leave the pits.
That countdown text could be removed completely, starts from 1 with very slow second I think and doesn't really do anything :D


And no people, the digital speedo hasn't been removed, only the duplicate option to choose it.

[Scawen]

Digital speedo is still available in Display Options.
I had it available in View options as well for convenience, because there was a space there.
But after about 10 bug reports that it was in two places, I decided to remove it from View Options.

[duke_toaster]

Scawen, cars can move without penalty before the start of qualifying - if you're fast enough you could get to the pit exit on some tracks.

[glyphon]

its not off...i think the default setting is "off", but all this update does in regards to the digital speedo is remove one of the dupliate settings from the options screen.

in other words, in the previous test patches, the settings for digital speedo were available in two seperate areas of the options menu. this update just removed one of those. it is still possible to change between digital and analog speedometers.

[duke_toaster]

To kill two birds with one stone - this replay has both the early start for quali AND a new bug I have just clocked - FE Club with BF1, you can exceed the pit lane speed limit on your out lap with impunity.

[zockmachine]

great improvements scawen ! :)

little "objection":
for me, its still too less difference until the green lights appear. i tested it many times, and i nearly always got a period of 3 seconds until the green lights appear.

----Improvement Suggestion----
i think 1 second is too less, although it didnt happen to me yet... 2-5 seconds would be much better i think.

[Blackout]

I was in spectate and the guy had finished few laps behind I guess. I suppose that's not intentional to show the position 3 times?


edit. Or has this been like that always? :S

[s1m0n]

32 cars?! OMG!!!! Unbeliveable!
8 TCP conn's? WOW. This is the best thing that could happen! And qual starts from garage! Unbeliveable!
This is such a great news I'm going to get drunk and then try out W17!

[nesrulz]

Max cars in multiplayer race increased to 32
:woohoo:

[DEVIL 007]

I know Scawen you would like threw a hammer at me but untill there will be made some big optimalization to the 3d engine(not just LOD variables or similar thingy) to have some more FPS, having 32cars is very nice update but useless for most of the people because being at the end or almost at the end of the grid with 32cars you will have like 10-20 FPS with which is very hard to race from start and not causing any crashes.Just my opinion.

Otherway its very nice step forward.

[der butz]

works great until now. No hickups, a fair bit fps loss (xp3200+, 9800pro) , but no bugs here. Keep 'em coming, thanks a freaking lot!!!!!


greetz

der butz

[atledreier]

Downloading! :)

[BuddhaBing]

A question re: qualifying sessions starting from the pits. Given that there are a limited number of pit stalls/boxes on some track configs, there can be a situation where there are more players in a session than there are available pit boxes. What happens in this case? Are some players locked out of the qualifying session until a pit box becomes available? Do several players start from the same pit box (possible collision problem here)? Will more pit boxes be added to these track configs?

[DEVIL 007]

just got some OOS with W17 but was slow to note down the exact message:-(

[N I K I]

My pit spotter doesn't work now!

[duke_toaster]

A question re: qualifying sessions starting from the pits. Given that there are a limited number of pit stalls/boxes on some track configs, there can be a situation where there are more players in a session than there are available pit boxes. What happens in this case? Are some players locked out of the qualifying session until a pit box becomes available? Do several players start from the same pit box (possible collision problem here)? Will more pit boxes be added to these track configs?

They start from inside a garage, one issue is that there are inadequate garages. Maybe starting cars in the fast lane of the pit lane might work better, those that don't fit going in to garages.

[XsX!]

I know Scawen you would like threw a hammer at me but untill there will be made some big optimalization to the 3d engine(not just LOD variables or similar thingy) to have some more FPS, having 32cars is very nice update but useless for most of the people because being at the end or almost at the end of the grid with 32cars you will have like 10-20 FPS with which is very hard to race from start and not causing any crashes.Just my opinion.

Otherway its very nice step forward.

tried the game with lots of player now..
it runs very nicely here,
have you ever tried other games with so much player?
gtr, rtractor, and all the others stutter really badly on my machine with 10+ players.
and i will not talk of netkar..
The code is really really well optimized as is. no doubt it can be optimized more, but as is, i think is a really goooood job :nod:

[Boris Lozac]

The code is really really well optimized as is. no doubt it can be optimized more, but as is, i think is a really goooood job :nod:

I agree... you gotta dump those Ge Force 2 MX cards some day :shrug: ;)

[banshee56]

Hey Boris! :wave23d:

Hmmm...nice changes there Scawen. I wonder if my P4 2.6 & Radeon 9800 will do alright. :shrug:

[(SaM)]

Removed digital speedo option from view options

Ouch, that's a shame really, I grew kind of fond of that option. Though I prefer the digital Victoria's Secret anyway.

On a serious note, this sounds great! I have to wait a week or so though.. I don't think it's a good thing shoving all of this bandwidth (32 cars!) through my 240k wireless connection...

[corsair_bs]

Hi There!

As this is the first time I report a bug, i'm not quite sure, if it is not a feature ;-) ... let's see

After creating some serious damage to the tires and suspension by accidently hitting the curbs and pushing the revs to its limits (FXR, AS National in my case) I finally made it to the sand in last corner. By resetting the car (which was actually lying upside down) pushing SPACE I got totally fresh tires and the damage also disappeared...

I don't know, if this is intentional - it's nice for newbees, but *notfair* for experienced drivers...

By the way I want to propose a tiny improvement: Isn't it possible to not just change the color from light red to dark red, if some other racer is a lap or more behind. My propose is to show also the laps (i.e. '+1 Lap') between you and other driver forth or behind rather than just show the time gaps to drivers in the same lap as you are.

Keep on Racing

corsair_bs
www.autohochzwei.de (http://www.autohochzwei.de)

[felplacerad]

Hi There!

Hello!

Not a bug!

[ORION]

Removed digital speedo option from view optionsOuch, that's a shame really, I grew kind of fond of that option. Though I prefer the digital Victoria's Secret anyway.
Waahhh, I thought the digital speedo was removed completely.. luckily the setting it only moved to the display menu... phew! :schwitz:

[DEVIL 007]

regarding the damage and tires its a feature.
There are now to possibilities:
"arcade" - so everything is reseted
"simulation" - nothing is reseted as well when you flip the car its not reseted.

There was already suggestion to incluide the middle option as was before that only car position reset so you can still continue with damage

[ste_]

Whilst 32 players is pretty awesome, it does mean that it's harder to connect to such servers (more players (dis)connecting which stops you joining), it's harder to join from pits or spec mode (same deal) and also harder to get a majority vote to restart a race (more people to leave the race, so more can join and of course the voting gets cancelled when a new player joins). I wonder if anything can be done to improve matters here.

[Lotesdelere]

regarding the damage and tires its a feature.
There are now to possibilities:
"arcade" - so everything is reseted
"simulation" - nothing is reseted as well when you flip the car its not reseted.

There was already suggestion to incluide the middle option as was before that only car position reset so you can still continue with damage
And I still believe this mid option is needed because there are some people who don't bother with boring realistic stuff :P

[SpikeyMarcoD]

My pit spotter doesn't work now!

As do pretty much all addons. I use Beckys LFS companion and sadly this one also does not work anymore. Must be the new insim.

[corsair_bs]

Hmmm, this is kind of annoying to me... :-(

The main advantage of LFS was that it is NOT an arcade-like game, that allows you to hit obstacles without getting any damage and pushing some marvelous buttons that resets everything (i wish i had one of those in the real life, sometimes).

Will the arcade option be turned off by defaukt on multiplayer servers, then?

greets from germany,

corsair_bs

[funnybone2]

Ouch, that's a shame really, I grew kind of fond of that option. Though I prefer the digital Victoria's Secret anyway.

On a serious note, this sounds great! I have to wait a week or so though.. I don't think it's a good thing shoving all of this bandwidth (32 cars!) through my 240k wireless connection...
:D no wonder

[BrandonAGr]

regarding the damage and tires its a feature.
There are now to possibilities:
"arcade" - so everything is reseted
"simulation" - nothing is reseted as well when you flip the car its not reseted.

There was already suggestion to incluide the middle option as was before that only car position reset so you can still continue with damage

A middle option would really be appreciated, I was racing with the mrt and got stuck facing a wall, with no reverse I was forced to exit the race

[geeman1]

And I still believe this mid option is needed because there are some people who don't bother with boring realistic stuff :PThat is why there shouldn't me a mid-option. Sometimes you just have to force these kind of hardcore sim options.. LFS is a hardcore sim, so the only mode is the hardcore mode :) (or the totally stupid arcade mode :p)

No that I made a post about resetting I might as well continue on. There is still a way to get reseted if the canraset is set to off. That is when you fly out of the track, you get autoreseted back to the track. This could be also removed when the canreset is off. Make cars that fly off the track spectate or something.

[DANDAMAN05]

very nice scawen! holy cow patch X will be awesome! :D

[mcintyrej]

very nice scawen! holy cow patch X will be awesome! :D

Right on Brudda!

Brilliant patch Scawen, 32 players is just awesome on Mid-length tracks like FE Gold. Thanks!

[keiran]

Hmmm, this is kind of annoying to me... :-(

The main advantage of LFS was that it is NOT an arcade-like game, that allows you to hit obstacles without getting any damage and pushing some marvelous buttons that resets everything (i wish i had one of those in the real life, sometimes).

Will the arcade option be turned off by defaukt on multiplayer servers, then?

greets from germany,

corsair_bs

As far as I'm aware the arcade option is off by deafult. I think Scawen's thinking behind the idea is servers will hopefully all go down the `hardcore` route rather than just keep the same setting as there was before hand.

[Lotesdelere]

LFS is a hardcore sim, so the only mode is the hardcore mode :)
This is BS, maybe 20-25% of the licenced users are hardcore racing drivers.
Lot of people just want to have fun for an hour after a hard day at work or even only once a week and they just don't care about stupid options like pressing on a button to 'simulate' a clutch, as if it could be realistic.
If they can't reset they will simply leave the server and/or the game.

Because yes, still it's a video game.
You won't stop people from drifting if they want to do so, you won't stop people from playing cops and robbers or from cruising on some carribean coast.
It's up to the servers owners to decide what kind of options they want to use.

Not to mention that not everyone can afford a G25. Lot of people are using a mouse or even a keyboard and LFS is an expensive game in some countries and/or for some people.
It would even be a big mistake from Scawen to ignore this large part of the licenced users: the gamers. Nothing worst for any kind of industry to aim at one (group of) customer only. The more audience LFS will have, the best it will be for everyone.

Edit:
Bit OT for the test patch thread, sorry about that.
Remove/move this post if needed.
/Edit

[XsX!]

hi scawen, i've spotted a bug.
i was in a server with 25+ people, and i couldnt save the setups other people sent me."configuration saved" but after that, when in pit screen, the setup is lost.
tried many times, but same result, even deleted some sets, but no difference.

[axus]

Nice patch, thanks. :)

I know Scawen you would like threw a hammer at me but untill there will be made some big optimalization to the 3d engine(not just LOD variables or similar thingy) to have some more FPS, having 32cars is very nice update but useless for most of the people because being at the end or almost at the end of the grid with 32cars you will have like 10-20 FPS with which is very hard to race from start and not causing any crashes.Just my opinion.

I have to agree with this... :shrug:
I was just on a server, with 22 cars or so. With 5 on screen, my PC really struggled. I got in the order of 25-35 FPS. This is a 3.0GHz P4 64bit, 512MB RAM, 6600GT 128MB graphics card. Without AA and AF, at my LCD's native res (1280x1024), with LODs set to about mid way between the minimum and the maximum, compressed skins and even half size textures. I'm starting to think there's something wrong, but I've got the latest drivers, my graphics card can't be underpowered (500W PSU) and nothing apart from MSN was running in the background.

[DANDAMAN05]

hi scawen, i've spotted a bug.
i was in a server with 25+ people, and i couldnt save the setups other people sent me."configuration saved" but after that, when in pit screen, the setup is lost.
tried many times, but same result, even deleted some sets, but no difference.

you sure your in the right car?

[Little Dump]

Can I install this directly overtop of W10 or do I have to install W again?

[Scawen]

A question re: qualifying sessions starting from the pits. Given that there are a limited number of pit stalls/boxes on some track configs, there can be a situation where there are more players in a session than there are available pit boxes. What happens in this case? Are some players locked out of the qualifying session until a pit box becomes available? Do several players start from the same pit box (possible collision problem here)? Will more pit boxes be added to these track configs?There are as many pit starts as grid slots (32 in most places). If you find anywhere that is not the case, please report it, that would be a serious issue.

just got some OOS with W17 but was slow to note down the exact message:-(Was it a "JOOS" just when you connected (ok) or a real "OOS" after you had been there for a while (bad).

My pit spotter doesn't work now!All InSim packets have changed, so all InSim programs must be updated.

[Boris Lozac]

I have to agree with this... :shrug:
I was just on a server, with 22 cars or so. With 5 on screen, my PC really struggled. I got in the order of 25-35 FPS. This is a 3.0GHz P4 64bit, 512MB RAM, 6600GT 128MB graphics card. Without AA and AF, at my LCD's native res (1280x1024), with LODs set to about mid way between the minimum and the maximum, compressed skins and even half size textures. I'm starting to think there's something wrong, but I've got the latest drivers, my graphics card can't be underpowered (500W PSU) and nothing apart from MSN was running in the background.

Hm, can't seem to agree with this, i have a Atlhon XP(Barton) 2500+, 512 ddr and a Radeon 9550 128mb, and when starting with 20 + people from the back, FPS can go bellow 25, but never bellow 20, and after T1, it's on the 35, 40 with 8, 9, 10 cars ahead of/behind me, and when alone or in a batlle with someone, it's 50, 55, 60.. And i tend to have all the High res textures.. :shrug:
Haven't tried W9, nor W17, but one guy at our local forum, said he got 10+ more FPS with W9...

[XsX!]

you sure your in the right car?
err. yeah. it was for the other car.
less havana for me next time :razz:

[XCNuse]

I was just in frankys server and had a fair ammount of cars infront of me too,
FPS was around 40 (surprisingly), but I really think its about time the LOD system really needs to get a shakedown (although I'm guessing it was in Patch V). But as far as dynamic LOD goes, I think it may need to be boosted when servers start filling up (if they ever do).

[sinbad]

Nice patch, good move starting qual in the pits.

Don't really care about the 32 car grid, though. I'm just the not one of those that thinks bigger grids means better races (quite the opposite, in fact, I hope most servers don't run 32 just because they can).

I think we really need that "reverse top X places" option for public servers too.

[Renku]

... having 32cars is very nice update but useless for most of the people because being at the end or almost at the end of the grid with 32cars you will have like 10-20 FPS...

I was just on a server, with 22 cars or so. With 5 on screen, my PC really struggled. I got in the order of 25-35 FPS...

How much optimisation can there be (I dunno of course), do you want 32 cars on grid and MX 440 as VGA card? Nobody is forcing you to go 20+ server. I know my 9600XT will certainly choke, but I won't ask Scawen to stop developing LFS because of that (adding more racer slots in this case). In leagues like MoE, it would be understandable if there is a requirement: "participant's PC must be powerful enough to handle 32 cars on track (+ spectators).

[herki]

Argh! Just when I go visiting my parents and have no wheel :x

[BuddhaBing]

There are as many pit starts as grid slots (32 in most places). If you find anywhere that is not the case, please report it, that would be a serious issue.

SO Classic, Long and Town all appear to have 30 pit slots, assuming that there are no pit slots in the pit-lane itself.

I'm not sure how pit slots are counted in SO Sprint1 and Sprint2 but assuming that they correspond to the parking spots painted on the tarmac, they have 24 and 20 respectively.

It would be nice to find 32 players to test each of the track configs. Any volunteers?

[NeoArnold]

I HAVE A LITTLE QUESTION PLEASE, THIS VERSION IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE RECENT W, THEN THAT THIS NEW VERSION WHEN HAS READY, IT WILL BE THE NEW LFS S3? OR JUST ANOTHER MORE OF S2, EXAMPLE LFS S2_X??? :shrug:

MAYBE YOU MUST THINK ABOUT THE RAIN, OR THE GLASSES CRASHED, ETC. :thumb:

HOWEVER I LOVE LFS :D

PD. excuse my bad english

[faster111]

I HAVE A LITTLE QUESTION PLEASE, THIS VERSION IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE RECENT W, THEN THAT THIS NEW VERSION WHEN HAS READY, IT WILL BE THE NEW LFS S3? OR JUST ANOTHER MORE OF S2, EXAMPLE LFS S2_X??? :shrug:

MAYBE YOU MUST THINK ABOUT THE RAIN, OR THE GLASSES CRASHED, ETC. :thumb:

HOWEVER I LOVE LFS :D

PD. excuse my bad english read the 1st post again about patch x ect.

[ans7812]

how do i got back to the .5W version so i can race on the other servers?

[Little Dump]

Still wondering if its possible to install this patch directly over W10

[NeoArnold]

read the 1st post again about patch x ect.

where is that post?

could you please write me the link? thanks :thumb:

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

Still wondering if its possible to install this patch directly over W10 Yes.

[Boris Lozac]

Still wondering if its possible to install this patch directly over W10

Off course it is, how would you do it otherwise?
There should be some guide for these test patches, and it would be less spam in these threads..
MAKE ONE MORE LFS COPY, (copy your LFS folder elsewhere, on other partition for example) and play with test patches with that version, and leave the other one for official updates.. Isn't that so obvious? :really:

[BrandonAGr]

Hm, can't seem to agree with this, i have a Atlhon XP(Barton) 2500+, 512 ddr and a Radeon 9550 128mb, and when starting with 20 + people from the back, FPS can go bellow 25, but never bellow 20, and after T1, it's on the 35, 40 with 8, 9, 10 cars ahead of/behind me, and when alone or in a batlle with someone, it's 50, 55, 60.. And i tend to have all the High res textures.. :shrug:
Haven't tried W9, nor W17, but one guy at our local forum, said he got 10+ more FPS with W9...

An automatic LOD reduction when there are many cars are on screen would be a great feature, like I mentioned in another thread my comp will go from 92fps constantly to 30 when I can see all the cars on screen at once. I am not sure what part of my graphics card it is maxing with the cars to drop like that, are the car models that detailed?

[jayhawk]

I am going to make a prediction; I predict that the final, compatible patch will allow 24-28 cars on the grid, not 32. I am in the belief that Scawen would like feedback to see just how far this game can be pushed, then scale it back to a level for people with normal computers can use.

It seems logical and, I dunno, Scawenish. :shrug:

[GeForz]

SO Classic, Long and Town all appear to have 30 pit slots, assuming that there are no pit slots in the pit-lane itself.

I'm not sure how pit slots are counted in SO Sprint1 and Sprint2 but assuming that they correspond to the parking spots painted on the tarmac, they have 24 and 20 respectively.

It would be nice to find 32 players to test each of the track configs. Any volunteers?

You only need 11 Player and a sevrer configured to handle 3 cars per connection :)


Edit:
FE RallyX GReen fill it up with 20 AI's, type /pit_all and watch the last 2 cars :(

[George Kuyumji]

Awesome to drive with so many people at the same time :thumbsup:

I like the different relays and false starts, but I wish the Green Lights to be away, because on alot of tracks the start sign is simply the Red Lights going out, like that better. In F1 it is 5 pairs of red lights going on at the same time gaps but all go off after a different range of seconds.

[Cue-Ball]

An automatic LOD reduction when there are many cars are on screen would be a great featureLOD reduction is already in the game. It's just a matter of some machines being so slow that even with LOD reduced all the way, it's not enough.

[Cue-Ball]

You only need 11 Player and a sevrer configured to handle 3 cars per connection :)Not sure if that would work since AI can't pit.

[GeForz]

Not sure if that would work since AI can't pit.

/pit_all see above

[Boris Lozac]

I am going to make a prediction; I predict that the final, compatible patch will allow 24-28 cars on the grid, not 32. I am in the belief that Scawen would like feedback to see just how far this game can be pushed, then scale it back to a level for people with normal computers can use.

It seems logical and, I dunno, Scawenish. :shrug:

I don't think that would be the case (i hope not)..
I mean, i understand that some of you have really low end PC's, but the development can't be held back because of you guys :shrug:
As someone already said, no one is forcing you to go to 32 players server..
You could really shell out for a new graphics card at least..

[faster111]

I got a black screen when i got on the 500 server and i pitted when the race is finished come out of the pit screen next thing it crashed so i waited a couple of mins then i got black screen bug or what?

[faster111]

where is that post?

could you please write me the link? thanks :thumb:

can't find it i find it later.

[XCNuse]

I agree with Boris. Although many users will not have sufficient computers to run with 31 other people, think about leagues and endurance races where 32 runners will really come in handy.

Plus, servers with 32 people will most likely only need to have 32 users, I'm pretty sure majority of servers will remain in the limits of majority of users can handle. The reason I know this is because, how many servers have you seen completely full? Most likely not very many, especially when compared to the number of half filled servers.

[Blowtus]

Why on earth does it matter if some people can't handle 32 cars on screen? Choose a race or league not running that many.

It would be good to see the max cars a specific track will allow listed somewhere in the track selection screen.

[jayhawk]

I don't think that would be the case (i hope not)..
I mean, i understand that some of you have really low end PC's, but the development can't be held back because of you guys :shrug:
As someone already said, no one is forcing you to go to 32 players server..
You could really shell out for a new graphics card at least..

You tell me. By the way, my card is a Radeon 9600.
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2907/cpuzks9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Edit: and I dont give two stone if I can handle 32 cars...I know I can, but how about a large group of people who DONT read this forum? IIRC, Live For Speed's finest point is that you dont need a gamer computer to play.

[ATHome]

Everytime I tend to race online there is a new test patch out...

Maybe I should race more often :D

:thumb:

[Boris Lozac]

You tell me. By the way, my card is a Radeon 9600.


Edit: and I dont give two stone if I can handle 32 cars...I know I can, but how about a large group of people who DONT read this forum? IIRC, Live For Speed's finest point is that you dont need a gamer computer to play.

I didn't mean to offend you or anything, and you have better computer than i do anyway :)
It sounded like you don't wan't LFS to progress graphically, or in number of players on server, because many people can't handle it..
That means we should never get parts falling off, glass getting broken, better sounds, more detailed car models, detailed cockpits, etc??
People have to upgrade their computers SOME DAY, you can't expect that you can play 2007 PC game with Pentium 2, now, can you?
I haven't updated my PC in 3 years now, used to do it all the time for stupid FPS games, which bore me after a week...

[jayhawk]

I didn't mean to offend you or anything, and you have better computer than i do anyway :)
It sounded like you don't wan't LFS to progress graphically, or in number of players on server, because many people can't handle it..
That means we should never get parts falling off, glass getting broken, better sounds, more detailed car models, detailed cockpits, etc??
People have to upgrade their computers SOME DAY, you can't expect that you can play 2007 PC game with Pentium 2, now, can you?
I haven't updated my PC in 3 years now, used to do it all the time for stupid FPS games, which bore me after a week...

No offense taken! :) 28 players is good, 32 is better, and if anything, more entertaining in T1, but if there is a jump from 28 to 32 players in a short time, it may be too much graphically for alot (but not all!) players. I am all for improvements as you mentioned, but it just seems not like something Scawen or Scavier in general would do. W17 seems to me, to be a "throw it into the water and see if it floats" kind of patch.

If I am wrong, may I dine on crow. :)

[Fischfix]

how many cars are allowed on autocross (AU1) :really: ? can't you just raise it to 20 or 21?

[cannonfodder]

I think some of those with better systems are getting too defensive about the performance concerns.

No one in their right mind is going to ask that grid slots be reduced or that no new graphics features be introduced. However, it's still important to give the options for those who need it to alleviate load on their system. The current lowest detail LOD turns cars into blocky lego structures. If someone has to deal with that to get a playable 24 fps then so be it. However, I think they should have the option of dialing down their graphics that far if need be. It's not going to stop anyone else from using hi-res textures and 16xAA/AF.

Speaking as someone who has had to tweak a mid-range computer, I think the LOD reduction system is sometimes optimistic about what can be smoothly rendered. Perhaps some form of manual customization is due for the automatic LOD reduction? For example, setting a maximum car LOD level at all times. Or maybe a user defined max number of car polygons rendered, where if (# of cars rendered * #of polys per car) exceeds a certain number, all cars are dropped to a lower LOD. Or even a simple minimum FPS setting that the LOD reduction system tries to maintain.

[KMSpeed]

Btw, LFS is mainly CPU limited, not GPU limited.

Here's an older post I've made about this topic http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=342448#post342448

[joshdifabio]

People have mentioned the FPS issue caused by new, larger grids. At the moment there is a "Multiplayer Car Draw" setting, the purpose of which is self explanatory.

I think another option to limit the number of cars which can be drawn at the same time would be much more useful. If I only had 10 cars drawn at the same time, then I wouldn't get the game slowing down massively on the grid. However, I would no longer need a low draw distance and, on a long straight with a few cars spread out infront of me, I would be able to see those cars and not experience fps drops.

At the moment, if your PC can only cope with 10 cars on screen at once, you have to set a very low draw distance to avoid unplayable frame rates at the start. However, it can be quite frustrating to have cars flickering in and out of the draw distance when you only have one or two in sight, and it simply isn't necessary.

Sorry to bring up a suggestion in this thread, however, I think it would be a great help to a lot of people.

Edit: Well, I took a long time to write that post. Cannonfodder made a similar suggestion.

[Fischfix]

i think one of the best improvements which helps with frame rate is to reduce the quality of the mirrors. i think for most people and especially those with a slower computer do not need to see the bottom left champion sticker on the front pumper of the car two cars behind.

another great option would be as mentioned above an option where i can set like: maximum cars drawn. so there are only the XX closest cars drawn

[SpaceMarineITA]

Btw, LFS is mainly CPU limited, not GPU limited.

Here's an older post I've made about this topic http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=342448#post342448

I dont think so:
some months ago (during patch U times) i have overclocked my athlon 64 3200+ from 2.0 ghz to 2.4ghz.
I have an X800GTO2 16 pipeline

Fps improved maybe of 3 or 4 at sec, with +400mhz!


LFS is gpu limited imho, for the same reason why, with the same cars on track, when u have them all in front of you, your fps are lower then when you have them on the rear.

If lfs was cpu limited there should not be any difference between these situations.

[Tweaker]

Found a minor bug...

In cockpit view the minimap is usually one color... light grey in this case. If you use look left/right/behind it stays light grey. But in custom view, the map turns dark grey when using those keys. (also in external/chase cam, the map is dark grey)

Don't know if it should be like that, but just seemed odd :shrug: Also, strange... this somehow doesn't happen to some cars at random, it is weird. And, the map should turn dark grey no matter what if you are lapped traffic right? Well sometimes the cars would pit out and the map would be light grey for them (even after they pass the splits and do several laps to verify they are lapped down), but only dark grey if you used the look keys???

When I noticed this happening, I was on a server that was in progress and set to 10 laps, and nobody was finishing the race, they were just driving around. Finally they restarted the race, and now everyone's maps were dark grey, but as soon as someone pit in/out, the bug came back again. Like it has something to do with people pitting out of the garage when a race is in progress, then if it restarts, it still thinks the person really leading that new race should still have the old dark grey map. I dunno, I am really confused with these colors changing atm, lol!

(AS Cadet, all cars, online)

[axus]

How much optimisation can there be (I dunno of course), do you want 32 cars on grid and MX 440 as VGA card? Nobody is forcing you to go 20+ server. I know my 9600XT will certainly choke, but I won't ask Scawen to stop developing LFS because of that (adding more racer slots in this case). In leagues like MoE, it would be understandable if there is a requirement: "participant's PC must be powerful enough to handle 32 cars on track (+ spectators).

I don't want it on an MX 440, I should expect it on a graphics card that was pretty much top of the range 2 years ago (if I recall correctly), especially on fairly low settings bar the resolution. I'm not asking to go back to 30 cars or 20 cars just because my PC isn't good enough to handle more as there are certainly people with PCs that can handle it, I'm just saying that the car rendering time in LFS might need a bit of improvement (assuming it's possible) alongside this patch to make it more enjoyable. It's up to Scawen to decide the rest. :shrug:

[Alles]

I think another option to limit the number of cars which can be drawn at the same time would be much more useful. If I only had 10 cars drawn at the same time, then I wouldn't get the game slowing down massively on the grid.

i have to agree on that. some other games have that options like GTR or GTR2. I have abit more problems there so i just limite cars on screen to 10 and in mirrors to 5 for example. So making this feature would be most welcome :thumb:

[tristancliffe]

Whilst 32 players is pretty awesome, it does mean that it's harder to connect to such servers (more players (dis)connecting which stops you joining), it's harder to join from pits or spec mode (same deal) and also harder to get a majority vote to restart a race (more people to leave the race, so more can join and of course the voting gets cancelled when a new player joins). I wonder if anything can be done to improve matters here.

This issue needs to be brought up again. Perhaps W17+n can have some sort of queuing system built in? So if a Player is Leaving or Joining, the LFS just waits 5 seconds and tries again automatically. After a few tries (or if Cancel Join Request is clicked) then it gives up.

Otherwise it's becoming quite easy to get Too Many Clicks errors, which I've managed to avoid almost entirely in the past.

[narcis]

i think one of the best improvements which helps with frame rate is to reduce the quality of the mirrors. i think for most people and especially those with a slower computer do not need to see the bottom left champion sticker on the front pumper of the car two cars behind.

another great option would be as mentioned above an option where i can set like: maximum cars drawn. so there are only the XX closest cars drawn

I agree with you! :thumb:

[AndroidXP]

Define "quality" of mirrors. LOD used for the mirrors, or resolution? Resolution seemed to not affect fps at all, so I guess it's LOD you're talking about?

[XsX!]

there is already lod in the mirror, if you turn it down the cars appear as big colorful boxes.. what more than that?
and the multiplayer optimization code already makes cars disappear, and the near ones turn into boxes too..

[Tweaker]

In general, the mirrors hamper performance for slow systems, and yes the LOD and resolution is affecting it all. On a slow system, your only best option is to disable the Mirrors completely, and you'll notice at least a 10-20 FPS boost on a slow system. At the cost of having no mirrors of course.

The Multiplayer Car draw for the visibility of the cars is indeed a crude way of optimizing how many cars you want visible in front or behind your position, because you lose the ability to see the cars in long distances... or, if you want it really low, starting on a grid you wont see an accident ahead of you or cars that are really close... because the dynamic lod reduction removes cars even when the set distance is fairly far.

As much as I don't like saying this, I really think LFS could make use of really simple LOD models of the cars that look like boxes. This would be only on slower systems that need to make use of better LOD options, but it would help A LOT. The cars aren't always the reason for FPS drops though, I blame it on the tracks for being pretty detailed... even when you want the LOD levels down a bunch. The tracks cause a lot of FPS drops. Heck, even on my slow system, the last chicane on Aston National is really undriveable with the lowest possible graphics settings and no other cars present. The Simple Track option doesn't even do anything either, the track looks exactly the same (does anyone EVER notice a difference if you use this option???). :shrug:

This, plus the stutters from players pitting, is just a bad mix for anyone.

[Blowtus]

lfs already has such models Tweaker - when running 23 cars on the current compatible patch they appear.

[Tweaker]

I know there are such models, but they only appear under very extreme conditions. Why can't I see them when I want them too? Would help LOADS for FPS.

[GP4Flo]

You have to set the dynamic lod reduction to the highest value (1.0). This will make the cars look like boxes at the start, but increases the FPS quite a lot.

[Urban_Eagle1]

Wish the lights in the pit lane worked on the exit, so that you might get cars lining up before quli starts just for a bit of realism and possibly a blue light just for those rare times. lol but thats an improvment suggestions anyway.
This new patch is sexy, but i want it to be forced onto LFS players so we are all on the same level :) but anyway i like these new patchs cant wait till there all official.

BON JOVI FTW :P

[Ian.H]

[ snip ]

the stutters from players pitting, is just a bad mix for anyone.


This has always been and is still one of the biggest downfalls of the LFS netcode. I've had this since the first day I played S1 demo back in '04 and get this still today, which is why I much prefer a server with no midrace join enabled (not that people should be entering a track that has an ongoing race anyway).. but you always get retards who decide that as soon as they connect online, now's the time to start popping in and out of the pits to adjust their setup :really:

The other thing as mentioned, WTF does LFS act like a women with connections and only be able to do one thing at a time? Why can't someone connect and someone pit? It's friggin' ridiculous! and don't understand how complex physics maths can be achieved yet a simple threading or similar can't be done for this area of the game :shrug:

LFS netcode has always been good and shone way brighter than anything else IMO.. right now, rFactor has better netcode IMO.. why? because I can pit, join, quit and don't get lag when people pop in and out of the pits in rF, something I can't with LFS... oh and have also had perfectly smooth 40 car grids.

I think to summarise, LFS is now dated and needs a serious overhaul in many areas to bring it up to "today's standards".. it was once king in the online arena, but that title's slipped and only slipping further as the weeks tick away.

On a plus note, the cars feel better to drive these days.. but only when an LSD is used.. had a few _great_ races and battles last night.. something that I hadn't managed to do for a long time. FZ5 and LX6 in particular have actually become quite pleasant to drive and interesting to race :)

Just my £0.02 worth FWIW.



Regards,

Ian

[PLAYLIFE]

FZ5 and LX6 in particular have actually become quite pleasant to drive and interesting to race :)

I concur... + RAC has also become usable. The jump in driveability is like when the new tire fizics came out last April.

I don't know what clutch preload is, but I sure do like it.

[i_the_devil_i]

Hey there! =)
I've noticed some bug. well it shows up when playing replay recorded in W17 patch (also was on W9). All goes fine until someone goes to Pits. Then the OOS error appears. I've tried it only with single player replays, don't know what about multiplayer :shrug:

P.S. If I'm missing something, tell me pls. I read about some problems with replays in other patches, but no word of probs in W9 and W17

[Tweaker]

You have to set the dynamic lod reduction to the highest value (1.0). This will make the cars look like boxes at the start, but increases the FPS quite a lot.
I still don't think anyone is understanding this. Dynamic Lod Reduction (@ 1.0) won't make the cars look like boxes if I just have 6 or 8 cars around me. There has to be a whole lot more cars nearby for it to actually become effective. And if the cars are very close, they are in their true shape. That is the problem with big grid starts, where if you have tons of cars near you on the start (say Aston frontstraight where you 3-car wide caravans), FPS just drops hard. LOD doesn't really help though, because it is constantly changing from [performance -> quality -> performance], and never at one set amount of quality. That's not a very good way of optimizing graphics is it?

Anyways, this is all just another spinoff discussion regarding FPS and improvements.

I agree Ian :tilt:

[Shotglass]

This issue needs to be brought up again. Perhaps W17+n can have some sort of queuing system built in? So if a Player is Leaving or Joining, the LFS just waits 5 seconds and tries again automatically. After a few tries (or if Cancel Join Request is clicked) then it gives up.

Otherwise it's becoming quite easy to get Too Many Clicks errors, which I've managed to avoid almost entirely in the past.

there should rather be a complete change to how you join and disconnect
it should somehow be done in a way that doesnt influence any other connection to the server ie you wont get that annoying "cant pit" message and two drivers can connect at the same time (not sure if the later can be done)

As much as I don't like saying this, I really think LFS could make use of really simple LOD models of the cars that look like boxes.

or for starters low lod models that still look somewhat good (and dont constantly change like you posted yourself)

but for me the biggest problem is that lfs currently only seems to be able to reduce the lod on the cars
especially at the start im focusing on other cars and even on my fairly quick system they fade in and out of high lod constantly making the scene very uneven and nasty
why doesnt lfs reduce the track lod first before it starts to reduce the lod of the things youre actually looking at ie cars ?

[CSU1]

This issue needs to be brought up again. Perhaps W17+n can have some sort of queuing system built in? So if a Player is Leaving or Joining, the LFS just waits 5 seconds and tries again automatically. After a few tries (or if Cancel Join Request is clicked) then it gives up.

Otherwise it's becoming quite easy to get Too Many Clicks errors, which I've managed to avoid almost entirely in the past.


http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=23489 :shrug:

[DEVIL 007]

How much optimisation can there be (I dunno of course), do you want 32 cars on grid and MX 440 as VGA card? Nobody is forcing you to go 20+ server. I know my 9600XT will certainly choke, but I won't ask Scawen to stop developing LFS because of that (adding more racer slots in this case). In leagues like MoE, it would be understandable if there is a requirement: "participant's PC must be powerful enough to handle 32 cars on track (+ spectators).
Man,

I have 7900GT and no matter if I set AA from 2x to 8x I have still same FPS no matter how many cars is on the screen.Even when I set it to 16xAA then I have like 5 percent drop so LFS even cant use potential of my graphic card at all.Also doesnt matter if I change resolution.I also dont understand when setting LOD lower there is FPS boost but where I set AA higher there is no FPS drop.Doesnt make sense to me.

I think nice function for 3D engine would be INSTANCING for the car models so it is called thru API only once and not several times but LFS would need to upgradfe to DX9.I think this would give us some FPS boost with many cars.I see many possibilities but I think there is hardly any place to dig the performance just using DX8.DX9 should be more effective in using vertex shadding and other DX features.Probably DX8.1 over DX8 too.

I have A64 3200+ and since LFS cant use more then 1 core this might became quite a issue with 32 cars because there are not many people around who have so great PCs.Even when you have A64 X2 processor runnin at 2.6Ghz its still like since core A64 2.6Ghz so same performance.

LFS was always about that you dont have to have megamachine to run LFS fine.I am also for every progress with LFS which makes sense.32 cars field is nice addition but might cause some issues at start/T1.I know the best is to have 50FPS for smooth driving.I want progress but discussion is usefull too in some cases.

Just quickly looking at LFS unofficial benchmarks site:
average-mix-max.
1 falcon5 0.5W Core 2 Duo E6400 @3.333G 2048 Radeon X1950 XT (512) - - 143.161 89 207
2 Dizman 0.5W Opteron DC 2200 @3G 2048 Radeon X1950 XTX (512) - - 93.09 58 132

Thats with just few AIs.How many people have Intel Exxx runnning over 3GHz - just few people.


I dont know where else can Scawen dig mor performance but there should be done either optimization with LFS 3D engine or rest of the code otherwise adding more cars to be able to race with them is getting quite useless.Its fine during race but at start or T1 it might became a pain for people with less PC spec. then me and I dont have megame performance PC.

I wanted to become quite with such a responses and only help with testing and reporting bugs but you made me forced to answer.I would consider a bit discussion about this "issue".


EDIT:I have noticed with servers having many cars that when LFS shows message "player xxx connected" the connection bars get quite high for all copnnected people for like 1-2 sec (looks like small lag)and then its normal again.Tested on several W17 servers and it was always the same.I dont know the servers spec so it might be the slow connection they run on or maybe its something else - bug?

[Hyperactive]

there should rather be a complete change to how you join and disconnect
it should somehow be done in a way that doesnt influence any other connection to the server ie you wont get that annoying "cant pit" message and two drivers can connect at the same time (not sure if the later can be done)

I thini this is quite important for bigger servers. Even with 20 people on same server it can be quite a pain to get out/in. I have never managed to get in with first try if the server has many racers. And it will be very painful with full 32 racers. If nothing, at least there might be something to make the whole process of joining/leaving/pitting/spectating/changing options faster so that it would not happen so often that two actions happen at the same time.

The strange thing is that never had any join lag or pit-join-lag or stutter before V version. After that I have had these mysterious stutters which come from nowhere and usually destroy my race. The good thing is that those are extrememly rare. But very destructive.

If left untouched the collision detection and the inability to join/ leave/etc. at the same time will make the online experience a bit more struggle than it is now.

[RiGun]

If you think that because you have lots of cars around you your video card can't handdle them and that's why your FPS drop you might be right, only if you have a really old video card like a GF440, otherwise the main FPS drawback is from CPU and belive it or not it's from the sound engine, try to disable your sound card and then run LFS, you'll see that you get a lot more of FPS, this applies to the start grid when all the cars around you are making varous sounds killing your CPU.

Another way to test that is to watch a replay in 2x, that way LFS automatically disables sound, you'll see a sudden increase of FPS.

[Raimyz666]

W17? I have missed 7 patches... :schwitz:

I have missed all W new patches :chairfall

[gwendoline]

hmm sry to this but is W17 compatible with W10 hosts ? i need know before update:shy:

[theycallmeebryan]

First thing i saw when i fired up W17 using pitspotter....


InSim : first byte in packet does not match size


Im assuming this is due to the changes made in the Insim system??

[rediske]

Im assuming this is due to the changes made in the Insim system??

read: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=404558#post404558

[ESPAÑA[XTM]]

Hmm, If LFS is a sim, I would Know in what races there are 32 cars.. :shrug:

[AndreABG]

;405241']Hmm, If LFS is a sim, I would Know in what races there are 32 cars.. :shrug:

NASCAR has 43 or so ;)

[ESPAÑA[XTM]]

Someones less in oval?

[XRRoy]

;405252']Someones less in oval?

Fia GT, LMS, ALMS etc:)

[ACCAkut]

Carrera Cup and similar Clubman Cups have that many cars on the grid:thumb:

[Gunn]

32 at Bathurst

[Motörhead V8]

in our stock car we have 43 cars in a grid, none of the tracks are oval :tilt:

[gwendoline]

Insim packets changed again :
What is your real quest dear devs ?
You wanna ruin regularly all mods helping organisers to manage leagues in progress ?
Why you are not able to keep compatibility between each new change ?

[Lotesdelere]

i think one of the best improvements which helps with frame rate is to reduce the quality of the mirrors.
Resolution seemed to not affect fps at all, so I guess it's LOD you're talking about?
I have both U30 and W17 installed on the same HDD of the same computer. I've spent time to be sure both versions are using the same settings (also applied Scawen's LOD magical math formula).
Now in single player mode, AS National, on the starting grid W17 had about 10 FPS less than U30 but has about 15-20 FPS more on the back straight. Vsync is OFF in both LFS and the video drivers, no FPS limit applied in LFS.
So is it about LOD or hi res mirrors ? In all cases disabling all mirrors gives in a huge FPS boost, of course.
Maybe, for testing purposes, put back on the option to disable hi res mirrors ?


The cars aren't always the reason for FPS drops though, I blame it on the tracks for being pretty detailed... The tracks cause a lot of FPS drops. Heck, even on my slow system, the last chicane on Aston National is really undriveable with the lowest possible graphics settings and no other cars present.
Many players have complained about that since patch V. For a while we thought that the anti cheat tyres barrier we have added was the culprit one but removing it didn't help.


The other thing as mentioned, WTF does LFS act like a women with connections and only be able to do one thing at a time? Why can't someone connect and someone pit?
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=16019
I still believe that, with the current netcode, priority should be given to race events and not to players connecting or leaving.
Especially when the countdown for a new race has started it should never be stopped by a player connecting to the server, it sometimes takes ages to get enough votes to start a new race on populated servers.

[Krane]

Rant follows, those with thight schedules feel free to skip post.

Insim packets changed again :
What is your real quest dear devs ?
You wanna ruin regularly all mods helping organisers to manage leagues in progress ?
Why you are not able to keep compatibility between each new change ?

Important :
-----------
This is Live for Speed S2 ALPHA.

ALPHA means : LFS S2 is still in the testing and development stage.And from what I've read the Programmer Forum they all know it and many even welcomed the changes. If you have beef with how LFS is developed come back in $YEAR_LFS_IS_FINISHED and has been stamped as "final", then you have legitimate reason to whine&gripe if major functionality changes is brought with new patches.

[tomylee]

Nice patch, thanks. :)



I have to agree with this... :shrug:
I was just on a server, with 22 cars or so. With 5 on screen, my PC really struggled. I got in the order of 25-35 FPS. This is a 3.0GHz P4 64bit, 512MB RAM, 6600GT 128MB graphics card. Without AA and AF, at my LCD's native res (1280x1024), with LODs set to about mid way between the minimum and the maximum, compressed skins and even half size textures. I'm starting to think there's something wrong, but I've got the latest drivers, my graphics card can't be underpowered (500W PSU) and nothing apart from MSN was running in the background.
I think your problem is somewhere else. I have just a Notebook with a 64MB Ram graphic card and the CPU is a 1.6 MHz. It's true that during the start the FPS goes down to 20-30 but this was the same with 20 cars. Then I have no problems during the start with those 20-30 FPS. During the race it goes up to 60-80 FPS.

Great patch and awesome for the leagues with long tracks :thumb:

[duke_toaster]

Carrera Cup and similar Clubman Cups have that many cars on the grid:thumb:

BTCC has 30.

Le Mans has around 55.

[gwendoline]

@ Krane
I love devs'work since long time and all others changes and new inside last patch but i'm sorry but i'm human and each big change on insim system boring me a bit more each time and discourage me to attempt to made attractives events to gathered community around this game.
i think it possible to keep some compatibility.

[tikshow]

hmm sry to this but is W17 compatible with W10 hosts ? i need know before update:shy:
no! make a copy of your lfs folder

[Ramses]

This random green light doesn't seem to be working or at least not for all tracks. Tried KY1, FE6R and AS1.

You can start with your eyes closed. count 21-22-23-24 and off you go. We did many restarts but every start was exactly the same.

[gwendoline]

Thx Tikshow :thumb:

[11SuLLy11]

when this patch becomes official ,will i still have yo to download W9
thanks:tilt:

[gwendoline]

Insim do turn sacred by respect to gentil leagues organizers :bowdown:
Insim changes do turn more spaced please....dont touch pleaaaaaase or only in real necessary.
Remember devs leagues in progress build and increase this community....less leagues=less LFSfans

[joen]

when this patch becomes official ,will i still have yo to download W9
thanks

No, test patches are cumulative. The official patch will contain all fixes and features from the test patches.

[11SuLLy11]

Thanks :thumb:

[Shotglass]

I still believe that, with the current netcode, priority should be given to race events and not to players connecting or leaving.
Especially when the countdown for a new race has started it should never be stopped by a player connecting to the server, it sometimes takes ages to get enough votes to start a new race on populated servers.

yes but it shouldnt reset the timer/vote _period_
it should not stop players from connecting during the vote that would be a bad and crude workaround

[Cue-Ball]

Insim do turn sacred by respect to gentil leagues organizers :bowdown:
Insim changes do turn more spaced please....dont touch pleaaaaaase or only in real necessary.
Remember devs leagues in progress build and increase this community....less leagues=less LFSfansInSim was changed specifically to support programming for leagues and new InSim tools. The programmer forum is littered with requests for InSim changes, so Scawen listened to the requests and made the changes.

If YOU don't want to have to rewrite your tool, I can understand that. But virtually everyone else wanted these changes because they can now make their tools better and more efficient (and no more relays required!).

[gwendoline]

OK OK guys, sorry to my exceed attitude, i'm just angry...my programer was just finished lapper modifications to W9 and W10 compaatibility and now he do rmake the same. All his work is good to the trash before first use....plz understand my deseperation, he have a real life too and not enuf time to change this each days.

[AndroidXP]

Sorry, but it's really your own fault if you let your programmer write compatibility updates for a quickly developing TEST patch.

[gwendoline]

We'll preparing new lapper for futures leagues...we mind this insim system turn "official" soon no ?

[AndroidXP]

It will be official once patch X is released. Granted, I don't think it will dramatically change from now till then, but please don't come crying back if it does.

[Fischfix]

i am feeling it... the X is coming!

[faster111]

i am feeling it... the X is coming! Me to.

[lake10]

Im lost, i ve installed latest patch W17 and i only have 5 servers.
After that i ve installed W9 and its worst, i have 1 server.....

Wich one do i have to install to get all servers back?

[rc10racer]

Im lost, i ve installed latest patch W17 and i only have 5 servers.
After that i ve installed W9 and its worst, i have 1 server.....

Wich one do i have to install to get all servers back?

Roll back to patch W lake

[lake10]

Thats what i did Thanks dude ;)

[troy]

dear god did you read any of the text in the first post?
this is a TEST patch its not meant to be compatible to the latest version
install patch W over it again to get all servers and wait for patch X

[Fischfix]

Im lost, i ve installed latest patch W17 and i only have 5 servers.
After that i ve installed W9 and its worst, i have 1 server.....

Wich one do i have to install to get all servers back?

you have to use the version the most servers are using :)

[Alles]

what about u make copy of your LFS folder and install patch W in one and latest test patch in other? :) thats what i did

[Renku]

i am feeling it... the X is coming!
...not before Insim rewrite is completely done and tested, I think.

[geeman1]

what about u make copy of your LFS folder and install patch W in one and latest test patch in other? :) thats what i didI have W17 installed and just the W.exe in the same folder, seems to work or atleast with W10 it worked. It just gives an error about some translation string being too long.

[winchester]

Im lost, i ve installed latest patch W17 and i only have 5 servers.
After that i ve installed W9 and its worst, i have 1 server.....

Wich one do i have to install to get all servers back?
Try going back and d/l'ing the U TO U32 patch first.

[KMSpeed]

Scawen, may I suggest something here? At the first post of the test patch thread, below the red letters "Warning This Is a Test" I propose to add a small paragraph like this also:


How to install the Test Patch

To be on the safe side make a new copy of your current LFS folder and apply this patch there.
This way you can always have your original LFS folder intact in case you want to roll back to it, or to do some comparisons for bugs report.

[Renku]

What's the problem with different LFS versions. I have these (http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=29317&stc=1&d=1177619063) and all servers. I'm sure there are people who have more versions installed.

[ldriver]

Something strange happened , dont know if it s patch related but my new pb and the lap time i did didnt match , see picture below.:shrug:

[GP4Flo]

I have just joined a 47 player server and noticed some bugs when trying to join the race:
- My car joined right onto the track (qualy position) with the "Ready"-countdown, although the race was still under the way.
- Instead of "4/8" laps LFS displayed "4/1" (Edit: yes, like ussbeethoven it switched back to 9/8 after the race)

Edit: And another bug. All cars except your own disappear, this happend to all players on the server.

[ussbeethoven]

Same here (was also on the server), but in addition to his post LFS switched from 8/1 to 9/8 after the race was over.

[Viper29]

I can still "only" ;) race against 19 AIs. Is this correct or should I be able to race against 31?

[felplacerad]

20 cars is the current maximum on a single player grid.

[Hyperactive]

Improvement suggestion:

It would be better if the ai add menu wouldn't resize smaller when you add over 16 AI drivers. It could as well start a bit smaller so all the 20 AIs could fit without resizing. It is annoying because the button moves :)

Also while at it: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=23347
(add grid numbers). :tilt:

:schwitz: :D

[dawesdust_12]

I wish I could go /ai "20" which would add 20 AI's automatically.

[Gabkicks]

you guys are giving scawen quite alot to clean up... and so am I with this post:(

[birder]

@ Krane
I love devs'work since long time and all others changes and new inside last patch but i'm sorry but i'm human and each big change on insim system boring me a bit more each time and discourage me to attempt to made attractives events to gathered community around this game.
i think it possible to keep some compatibility.

I agree with you, We have had to put on hold the next season of the LFS: GTR League and development of our new system until the imsim changes are done.

Also we will now get a forum full of "this mod no longer works" post, but i also agree that the changes will be best in the long term.

[PLAYLIFE]

Improvement suggestion:

It would be better if the ai add menu wouldn't resize smaller when you add over 16 AI drivers. It could as well start a bit smaller so all the 20 AIs could fit without resizing. It is annoying because the button moves :)

Yes!

[ATHome]

Improvement suggestion:

It would be better if the ai add menu wouldn't resize smaller when you add over 16 AI drivers. It could as well start a bit smaller so all the 20 AIs could fit without resizing. It is annoying because the button moves :)

+1 :smileypul

[detail]

Can't wait till patch X. Yet I've seen more than 22 cars only at the [god blessed] oval track.

[lake10]

Thats what i did Thanks dude ;)

Thanks for answers, but when i said "Thats what i did, that mean that everything is fine now"

Thanks again ;)

I ve installed an older version (U32) then LFS did all upgrades to Patch W

[vari]

- Instead of "4/8" laps LFS displayed "4/1" (Edit: yes, like ussbeethoven it switched back to 9/8 after the race)

I changed it to 8 laps during the race when I realised the 1 lap problem. No idea where that came from.

[nRcToretto]

//BUGREPORT

I don't know if it was already mentioned, but I realized when a quali starts you now start from pits but the speed limiter in the cars that have one isn't activated ... I think thats from the former quali system where you started on track!! Maybe this should be fixed or was it intentionally?

//BUGREPORT

Btw: Nice work again Scawen ... keep rolling!!!

[Chaos]

I don't know if it was already mentioned, but I realized when a quali starts you now start from pits but the speed limiter in the cars that have one isn't activated ... I think thats from the former quali system where you started on track!! Maybe this should be fixed or was it intentionally?
i really don't see this as a bug... i can also imagine that you have to start your engine first, engage the pitlimiter (if desired) and off you go...

[Alles]

one very strange thing happened to me liek 3 times now. when i joined the race from pits or one time from spectate mode i had my gears on R instead on N, so i got false start not knowing that its on R and pressed throttle eh :shrug:.

[Tweaker]

one very strange thing happened to me liek 3 times now. when i joined the race from pits or one time from spectate mode i had my gears on R instead on N, so i got false start not knowing that its on R and pressed throttle eh :shrug:.
Are you sure you are using W17 version?

That is supposed to be fixed:
Could start in reverse if changing down at end of last race

[Alles]

Are you sure you are using W17 version?

That is supposed to be fixed:


hmm im not really sure anymore :\ it happened on the day W17 was out but im not really sure if its with W17, i forgot

[Vagner]

I play around with /pitlane and /pit_all command and noted this command clear all the info of laps in race making the race "unfinishable" (is correct?). Is not the same as SHIFT-S when you return to 1st lap.
In qualify is ok, the countdown stil running.

[-wes-]

On OLT Pro Racing at AS cadet last night the light sequence appeared to be stuck on 4 seconds( after last red comes on, same hold befor green).
Might just be that its not random enough( or the nature of randomness giving the same result many times).

It was predectable over 8 races.

[dadge]

i find that i can still time the lights from first red to green. usually results in an alonso (renault) style launch :D

[W1ldPort75]

Working 100% here :thumb:

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

i find that i can still time the lights from first red to green. usually results in an alonso (renault) style launch :D

Yep, I am finding this as well. Testing on the drag strip yesterday the intervals were for all intents and measurable without equipment purposes, indentical.

[STRAHD]

Dunno if anyone else has this problem but when I press find games in W17 it dosent connect to the server and the game just freezes.

[three_jump]

Could start in reverse if changing down at end of last race

sorry, but the bug is still there :(

[Cue-Ball]

Yep, I am finding this as well. Testing on the drag strip yesterday the intervals were for all intents and measurable without equipment purposes, indentical.Well, the lights on the drag strip really need to be handled differently, because they SHOULD be measurable and identical all the time. Different classes use different timings, but all drag racing sanctioning bodies use lights that are precisely timed to be exactly the same each time. In drag racing, you're SUPPOSED to try to time the lights.

I think we should have a spinoff thread which addresses the start lights. We need to look at the different race sanctioning groups and how each of them handles start lights. I think that most of them turn on the red lights, leave the reds lit for several seconds, then turn them off for "go", with no green lights being lit at all. Perhaps moving to such a system would make things better?

[shadow2kx]

Well, the lights on the drag strip really need to be handled differently, because they SHOULD be measurable and identical all the time. Different classes use different timings, but all drag racing sanctioning bodies use lights that are precisely timed to be exactly the same each time. In drag racing, you're SUPPOSED to try to time the lights.

I think we should have a spinoff thread which addresses the start lights. We need to look at the different race sanctioning groups and how each of them handles start lights. I think that most of them turn on the red lights, leave the reds lit for several seconds, then turn them off for "go", with no green lights being lit at all. Perhaps moving to such a system would make things better?

+1 Allright but maybe impossible for now ?


I just readed this: "Removed digital speedo option from view options"
Why the hell removing features which can been switched off (for these pro-reallifes users of lfs) ??????????


Anyway, 100% working patch, great job as usualy :)

[DeadWolfBones]

I just readed this: "Removed digital speedo option from view options"
Why the hell removing features which can been switched off (for these pro-reallifes users of lfs) ??????????


Anyway, 100% working patch, great job as usualy :)

He didn't remove the option entirely, just removed it from that menu because it's duplicated somewhere else in the menu system. There were several complaints about it in the last patch thread.

[gotspeed]

ONE REQUEST plz plz plz make the ai faster pro ai should be able to do close to a wr time i fired up oval with 20 odd ia and couldnt make one lap trying to miss all the wrecks and spiners what is so hard about making ai faster make them stay on the gass in the turns i can pass a whole field of ia if they dont take me out mak them faster

i use to play a game some time ago that you could teach ia maybe lfs can come up with something like this were ia learns from you

[XCNuse]

gotspeed, this is no place to make requests, they are what tend to close these threads down leaving scawen lost with bugs. If you have a suggestion, please put it in this section: http://www.lfsforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8

[gotspeed]

Dunno if anyone else has this problem but when I press find games in W17 it dosent connect to the server and the game just freezes.

start the game in windowd mode and you will get a firewall request

[mike11973]

All InSim packets have changed, so all InSim programs must be updated.

How and where do I go about updating these?

[Cue-Ball]

How and where do I go about updating these?Have you programmed a tool that uses InSim? If so, you should look at the programmer subforum. If not, you don't need to do anything.

[tikshow]

when we start qualy we don't have speedlimiter(automatic) in the pits! please repair it! thx!

[Kid222]

when we start qualy we don't have speedlimiter(automatic) in the pits! please repair it! thx!
Turn it on manually plsthx. ;)

[geeman1]

Turn it on manually plsthx. ;)Or drive off and get no penalty :razz:

[Fischfix]

i am not sure if this a bug or intended but i managed to get ai drivers on the autocross pad. they ref up but after the lights get green, they don't move and there is a msg: "Ai driver: no route" for every AI car.

i will now try to reproduce it and post a screenshot.

okay this is the way:

go to single player, select any track except autocross. Add some ai drivers. change track to autocross and start the race.

here is the screenshot:

[axus]

i find that i can still time the lights from first red to green. usually results in an alonso (renault) style launch :D

I think the only way to force people to *react* to start lights rather than *expect* them is to give anyone with a reaction of less than 0.1s after green a penalty. It's how it's done in real life after all (apart from on the drag strip as Cue-ball explained). :shrug:

EDIT: I can see the reluctance to add this might be because people would think "I started after green, howcome I got a penalty?"... perhaps the message should then be "Expecting green lights" rather than "False start" combined with a small text in the corner of the screen explaining "Moving less than 0.1s after green means that you expected green rather than reacting to it."

[Ian.H]

He didn't remove the option entirely, just removed it from that menu because it's duplicated somewhere else in the menu system. There were several complaints about it in the last patch thread.


Speaking of duplicates.. 'Gear Shift Mode' appears in both the 'Player' and 'Controls' screen :)



Regards,

Ian

[Cue-Ball]

I think the only way to force people to *react* to start lights rather than *expect* them is to give anyone with a reaction of less than 0.1s after green a penalty. It's how it's done in real life after all.I think that's a bad idea. If someone is willing to gamble a 30 second penalty for a .1 second advantage, that is their prerogative. However, the time it takes for the start lights to go out needs to be a little more random in order to stack those odds in favor of the house.

[Belain]

Well i dont have an idea if this is just because of W17 but i just noticed a repeatable bug!

whenever ure in the serverlist and join the meeting room, try to close LFS with ALT+F4 :)

it doesnt work, it comes up with: "Uknown Command" :)

so maybe it gets fixed :)

[racemania]

hi i got a crash when doing lessons in the test patch W17

heres the crash address: 0x000000000a8f2c20

it was with the LX4 and i was about to do a lap on southcity, as soon as i went to pull into the gates at the end of lap it crashed.

thanks racemania

[PLAYLIFE]

Well i dont have an idea if this is just because of W17 but i just noticed a repeatable bug!

whenever ure in the serverlist and join the meeting room, try to close LFS with ALT+F4 :)

it doesnt work, it comes up with: "Uknown Command" :)

so maybe it gets fixed :)

confirmed

It is present in 0.5W and also 0.5W17

[Macfox]

Scawen, is InSim likely to change again before X is out?

Several of the mod developers are holding off updates.

[CLRS530]

We write in the programmers forum part about the insim changes and maybe the time format changes before X (I think he is going to do it) but that should be the last change.
Thats what my knowledge is :-D

[AndreABG]

also on autocross with the BF1 (surely on the other cars too, but havent tried yet) the speedlimiter can't be activatet (theres no speedlimit on the track, but the car still got the limiter, even if its "programed" to infinite?)

[AndroidXP]

That's because the speed limiter is always set to the pit speed limit, which on future tracks (or after updates) might not always be 80km/h. Autocross tracks don't have pits, so there's no speed limit to adhere to.

[matze54564]

I have just joined a 47 player server and noticed some bugs when trying to join the race:
- My car joined right onto the track (qualy position) with the "Ready"-countdown, although the race was still under the way.
I was in the same server at the same time and me happened the same.

@Developers

Small Map
Thanks for the small map changes smallmapimage (http://home.mplo.de/changablesmallmapcolors.jpg) The blue one is my car! Thats really nice.
I love it really so how it now is. Maybe in future if developed bigger tracks should the small map only show a part of the track with my car in the center of the radar. But the north should then also always on top like since patch W10. A turning map i don´t like in a full small map and also not in a partially zoom small map.

Connection List Changes (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=22988)
The changes of the small map we have suggested all in a Patch-Release-Thread and now is it made. So i think why are suggestions in patch-test-threads not allowed? I think my suggested connection list changes are a very good add for Patch X.

Thanks for reading

[DEVIL 007]

BUG REPORT: textures/track drawing missing

I tried that with various cars and track config and always get the same bug.Doesnt matter matter if its with my car or there are just AI cars.

Pause game,pres ESC,go to pits(when own car used)/go to garage(when AI cars selected only), then press OK(when own car used)/join race(when AI cars used) and you will get missing track textures/track drawing.Also in the left upper corner you will see message "Not recording" .Not sure what should be recored. Its reproducable bug.

Also saw the same message "Not recording" with the previous bug reported with
OOS in replay in W16.

See attached images what bug you will get.

BUG REPORT 2: Race position list missing in 3840x1024(tripple screen?)
Scawen,I am not sure if you noticed that but here is small bug from Technical assistance thread.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=23511.

With W17 its only in multiplayer but not in Single player.
The below pictures are for the first bug.

[AndreABG]

well your first bug is caused by hardware/ software problems on your end I think

[Ian.H]

Don't think so.. I've had an abundance of these black sections too. I thought it was due to lag.. but it never used to be this way.. really annoying staring at a black screen when trying to spectate... and there's nothing wrong with my hardware or software here.



Regards,

Ian

[DEVIL 007]

well your first bug is caused by hardware/ software problems on your end I think
Try exactly the same with W17 on your end and report if you get it or not.""I think" doesnt help here.

For me it doesnt looks like an issue on my PC only because on my girlfriend PC it does the same with totally different hardware config(ATI card).

[bbman]

go to pits(when own car used)/go to garage(when AI cars selected only), then press OK [...] Also in the left upper corner you will see message "Not recording" .Not sure what should be recored.

Just to make that clear: When you pit in Singleplayer mode, the replay you recorded until then is invalid because you could have changed your setup (which makes it invalid due to the setup being saved with the replay)...

[DEVIL 007]

I dont record any replay.
I just start single player game,pres pause,pres ESC and do what I have described in my last post on previous page.You will get then bug with track drawing/textures missing.

[GeForz]

Try exactly the same with W17 on your end and report if you get it or not.""I think" doesnt help here.

For me it doesnt looks like an issue on my PC only because on my girlfriend PC it does the same with totally different hardware config(ATI card).

I could reproduce it, too. The important thing is, to pause lfs :)

[Shotglass]

iirc its always been like that and should disappear the moment you unpause it and move the car

[bbman]

I dont record any replay.

Oh yes, you do... Tell me what it says in your misc options then...

[Ian.H]

EDIT: Oops.. quotes mixed up.. now discussing a different point so my response is null&void :)

[Urban_Eagle1]

Hope they will make it soon, so that you have to download the patch, i want all these features but until things like servers actually appear in W+ its kinda pointless. All these features sound great, but until everyone runs off the same thing its iffy u know.

[AndreABG]

@DEVIL 007: can't reproduce this... I read something on the Notes to the Forceware beta drivers for 8xxx series: with AA turned on, all objects must be rendered each frame or they will disappear - it says some software only renders some Objects new, when they change - so in pause mode the missing things aren't re-rendered and therefor missing maybe. I don't know which cards are effected by this or if its only with the beta drivers or with all, but try to reproduce it with AA turned off

[kamo2000]

Lfs just crashed (W17):
I started training mode...went fine to the first f08 lesson at westhill and bah.
Check screnshot...addres is there.

[Fabri91]

If i'm not wrong, that happened to another player, search a couple of pages back in this thread.

[kamo2000]

Yup but his address was different i think..and in different lesson.

[racemania]

i cant get mine to reproduce havent completed all lessons.

it might just be one of those one off things that happen:shrug:

[Doorman]

An exploit came to our notice last night, one that we've not seen before. Although I've noticed that you can 'pit' when leaving the garage when joining midrace.

W17, 'Mustpit' enabled
What they do is pretend to accidently false start, telepit, which nullifys their penalty, leave the garage, drive into a pit space do their pitstop (no damage of course) and carry on. This all takes just a few seconds and the rest of the field have only gone a little way and of course they still have to pit. Keep an eye out for people that false start and telepit immediately.

Hope that makes sense.

[matze54564]

What they do is pretend to accidently false start, telepit, which nullifys their penalty, leave the garage.......
Thats True, and i think all players who use telepit should just sent to spectators and if the race not full should they get a 45 sec time penalty.
More about is written in here (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=23202)

[kamo2000]

Well i started that westhill training again and lfs crashed again..just when i entered box that i was supposed to stop...Than i lunched it again and result was the same...everytime i got different crash addres....

[ussbeethoven]

A strange bug appeared just 20min ago: on "OLT Pro Racing" every car except the own lagged resp. car position wasn't refreshed anymore, and the same happened again right after a server restart but chatting, setting new PBs and completing the race was still possible. I remember the same bug appeared before with W17.

[ussbeethoven]

Forgot first replay.

[vari]

A strange bug appeared just 20min ago: on "OLT Pro Racing" every car except the own lagged resp. car position wasn't refreshed anymore, and the same happened again right after a server restart but chatting, setting new PBs and completing the race was still possible. I remember the same bug appeared before with W17.

Yep, It's the third time I've seen it now. It's a Linux host by the way.

[DEVIL 007]

@DEVIL 007: can't reproduce this... I read something on the Notes to the Forceware beta drivers for 8xxx series: with AA turned on, all objects must be rendered each frame or they will disappear - it says some software only renders some Objects new, when they change - so in pause mode the missing things aren't re-rendered and therefor missing maybe. I don't know which cards are effected by this or if its only with the beta drivers or with all, but try to reproduce it with AA turned off
reproduced also without any AA turned on.
Sure it disappear when game is unpaused but for me its still drawing bug.

Also with the 32 players there should be note how fast connection you need when connection to 32 players server.

[[RF]-art555]

I don't know weather I should post it here or in the Xfire site, but you can't call Xfire in W17 version.

[Dutch-ALfa]

wont 32 players cause lag?
and when does official new patch comes... so every server will run on new one

[tristancliffe]

wont 32 players cause lag?
and when does official new patch comes... so every server will run on new one

Might do - depends on your connection and the servers'

When it's finished. Maybe this week. Maybe next. Maybe later. Maybe sooner.

[Scawen]

Scawen, is InSim likely to change again before X is out?

Several of the mod developers are holding off updates.Just some small changes will be made which I plan to release this week, even if I don't fix all the other known bugs reported here in this thread by that time. The small changes should be easy to adapt to, as long as the programmers bear that in mind it may be a good idea for them to get it working with W17, and just be read for the W18 changes. Or they can wait until the weekend.

Info about the small InSim changes : http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=409971#post409971

Hope they will make it soon, so that you have to download the patch, i want all these features but until things like servers actually appear in W+ its kinda pointless. All these features sound great, but until everyone runs off the same thing its iffy u know.Now you know why I try to keep all the incompatible changes to a smaller session like this, and most test patches are made to be compatible. :) Don't worry, I'm doing my best to get the incompatible changes finished and re-unite the divided community again. :)

An exploit came to our notice last night, one that we've not seen before. Although I've noticed that you can 'pit' when leaving the garage when joining midrace.

W17, 'Mustpit' enabled
What they do is pretend to accidently false start, telepit, which nullifys their penalty, leave the garage, drive into a pit space do their pitstop (no damage of course) and carry on. This all takes just a few seconds and the rest of the field have only gone a little way and of course they still have to pit. Keep an eye out for people that false start and telepit immediately.

Hope that makes sense.Are you sure they managed to finish the race without being disqualified? Although they pit, it's not supposed to qualify as a valid pit stop for the must pit rule. They should still be disqualified at the end of the race unless they pit again. I've just tested it again now and the first thing is : I could not join back into the pitlane until 12 seconds after the race started. Then when leaving my pit box I did a pit stop, and it did not remove my "Pit stop required : yes" in the F12 menu - it did not change to OK. Then I received a time penalty on my final lap. So... I could not reproduce gaining any advantage.

A strange bug appeared just 20min ago: on "OLT Pro Racing" every car except the own lagged resp. car position wasn't refreshed anymore, and the same happened again right after a server restart but chatting, setting new PBs and completing the race was still possible. I remember the same bug appeared before with W17.That sounds like the host stopped accepting UDP packets. I heard recently that this happened with a new version of Wine, and the problem was solved by reverting to an older version of Wine.

-art555;409982']I don't know weather I should post it here or in the Xfire site, but you can't call Xfire in W17 version.Which was the last version you used where it worked as expected? And how do you call Xfire? Using the run command? From a script or manually? I don't know anything about Xfire but I guess we need more info to be able to help you.

[danowat]

This may, or may not be appropriate, but as I am running the LFS4FREE event this weekend, it's important IMO.

I see that patch X will be out this week, how many demo players is it likely to support?.

Failing X appearing, how many does W17 support?

[Scawen]

It won't be out this week, my best guess is around 18th of May.

W17 and X demo mode support 16 connections, 12 cars on track.

[racemania]

This may, or may not be appropriate, but as I am running the LFS4FREE event this weekend, it's important IMO.

I see that patch X will be out this week, how many demo players is it likely to support?.

Failing X appearing, how many does W17 support?

scawen said :

Patch X release should be around Friday 11 May or a week later on Friday 18 May.


so patch x wont be this weekend just more insim updates:)


Edit: doh too late:slap:

[danowat]

It won't be out this week, my best guess is around 18th of May.

W17 and X demo mode support 16 connections, 12 cars on track.

Ok, many thanks Scawen

[seinfeld]

WOW the diff is exactly how it should be now, it handles fantastic, good work guys :thumb: :nod:

[vari]

Two crashes on same host at the same time, first one is mine and second is Shittie's. Nobody else was around at the time.

[[RF]-art555]

Which was the last version you used where it worked as expected? And how do you call Xfire? Using the run command? From a script or manually? I don't know anything about Xfire but I guess we need more info to be able to help you.
Xfire is a chat program that allows you to chat while playing games (not just LFS, but any other game). Ususally you call it with "Scroll Lock + X" during game. It was working properly in W version. It might be the Xfire that cause that problem and I'm sure they'll fix it with the patch for Xfire if its their fault.

Cheers

[Doorman]

Are you sure they managed to finish the race without being disqualified? Although they pit, it's not supposed to qualify as a valid pit stop for the must pit rule. They should still be disqualified at the end of the race unless they pit again. I've just tested it again now and the first thing is : I could not join back into the pitlane until 12 seconds after the race started. Then when leaving my pit box I did a pit stop, and it did not remove my "Pit stop required : yes" in the F12 menu - it did not change to OK. Then I received a time penalty on my final lap. So... I could not reproduce gaining any advantage.
Yes they finished without penalty. I and another tried to do this and it has to said it takes a fair bit of adroitness on the keyboard. Leaving the garage you have to spectate, join, leave garage, drive into pitspace. You've then completed a pitstop. I was pretty fumble fingered and still managed an advantage, albeit not a huge one. I think it's too obvious what's happening for it to catch on. :-)

[GeForz]

Ok I did some test about the pit problem.

I did the following: 1 Lap Multiplayer Race with 1 AI. As soon as the green light goes on i press shift+s to go to the pit menu and then I rejoin after the 12 seconds (I really think the Ok button in the put should display the countdown, too). Directly after exiting the pit i mae a short pit stop and continued driving.

The result was, that the AI got a 30 seconds penalty for "compulsatory pit stop too late" (well in 1 lap... ;)) and at the end a disqualification for not pitting. I however got the 30 seconds penalty for pitting too late and won the race crossing the line as second because i did a stop at the beginning but in the F12 menu there is still the red "yes". (see screenshot)

So my conclusion is:
- Add countdown to OK button in pit
- If you stop at the beginning you only get 30 seconds penalty for pitting too late but no disqualification for not pitting. => disable pitting x seconds after leaving pits
- automatic disable compulsatory pitting if race length is 1 lap (DRAG! ;))

[ESPAÑA[XTM]]

I don´t know is this is a bug but well..

I drive with mouse, so I need see mouse pointer in the screen to drive. Since patch W9, I can´t see the mouse pointer and de diference time at the same time. I´ve seen that in W17, too, when appear the last result and I´m driving, the mouse pointer dissapear and I must press N until see Conexion List to can see it again.

In resume, I would like can see the mouse pointer and the Diferrence with the other players at the same time and see too the mouse pointer when the finish positions appear.

I think that isn´t a suggestion beacuse in previous patchs worked it fine.. :shrug:

Thx

[seinfeld]

:thumbsup: scawen I cant get over the diff improvments, they are fantastic, and handle exactly like real life the clutch packs final dont lock up under hard breaking:schwitz: , thats ****ing unreal mate, the drifters will be creaming their pants soon, now all they need is longer lasting tyres and they will never bother you again :thumb:. I on the otehr hand will continue to bother you till this masterpeice comes together :nod: :smileypul

[matze54564]

;410334']Since patch W9, I can´t see the mouse pointer
Is this your missed mouse pointer?? (http://home.mplo.de/isthisamousepointer.jpg)
Another Mouse pointer beside the mouse pointer which is showing if you enable the connection list i cant find in older versions. Please learn me how you enable this always visible mouse pointer. I know only the red one you see in my screenshot, and this one is removable since W9 in Options> Display> Virtual steering gauge, default setting is [virtual steering gauge] = no.
PS: i don´t use any mouse pointer, i watch the wheel in cockpit-view and the pedal-bars down right. I use mouse steering and Mouse-Y for throttle and brake. And this visual Control is enough. The visual feedback of LFS is great, i love it really and it allows me to control the car like a real car without the feeling of the centrifugal forces which u can only have in a real car.

[ESPAÑA[XTM]]

This isn´t my mouse pointer. My mouse pointer is this: http://www.wpclipart.com/computer/mouse/.cache/mouse_pointer_wolfram_es_02.png..

In race, push N until conexion list, press F12 and if is necesary, N again.. And you will see Conexion list, the distances with the other driver and the mouse pointer..


**PS. I use the view of the tyres...

**PS2. My controls U=Trothle J=Brake Mouse direction right click for Lighs and Horn in the other :)

[matze54564]

;410479']In race, push N until conexion list, press F12 and if is necesary, N again.. And you will see Conexion list, the distances with the other driver and the mouse pointer..
Thanks for instructions, but i cant reproduce this. This is the wrong thread, i go in the technical assistance Forums and post this there. PS: My Arrow-Buttons are for Watch out, thats most important, but wanna buy a joystick just for watch out....