No flying tyres

[Lotesdelere]

These 'soft' tyres barriers placed in some critical chicanes (Aston, Westhill) are so annoying because the tyres are flying around and rolling all over the track when someone hit them. I haven't seen such thing on a race track since the 50's.
One hour ago my car literally lifted off like a plane on one of these tyres and thus ruined my race.

Keep the 'soft' barriers but please, no flying/rolling tyres anymore :)

[Adampell]

Tyres are used at race tracks because they are "soft". You hit them, it will soften the impact.

Its realism....why would you want no tyres walls ect?

[geeman1]

Yes, the tyres should be tied down so that they wont fly on impact (or atleast you would need to hit them harder to make them fly)

+1

[Blackout]

Tyres are used at race tracks because they are "soft". You hit them, it will soften the impact.

Its realism....why would you want no tyres walls ect?

Placing them like some of the barriers in LFS would be dangerous on a real track. In LFS the tire barriers placed on chicanes are there to prevent cutting (not to slow you down when crashing) because you don't damage your car enough going trough crass or sand, so we need obstacles before proper damage model is finished.

[Lotesdelere]

You hit them, it will soften the impact.
Yes but they should be hold by some kind of net, so it'll keep the softness but the tyres won't fly and roll all over the track.

[mrodgers]

He wants them tethered down so they don't fly out into the track, not get rid of tires all together.

Someone out ahead of you cuts the Aston chicane short and tags the outside tire of the barrier, you had better watch out following shortly because that tire is now spinning out in the middle of the track. This would not happen in real racing (for the most part....)

[MAGGOT]

This reminds me of the incident at Road Atlanta in the 90's; It ended in a car snapped in half, a career-ending injury, and a large lawsuit IIRC. Not a good situation at all. The tires should be tethered down or some other form of softbarrier should be used. The AI should also not plow through the Blackwood barrier lap after lap. God that's annoying...

+1.

[Breizh]

Wouldn't tires tethered to the ground, or a wall, and/or themselves make for even worse hazards, with the present collision model?
We'd have even worse lawsuits ! :tilt:

[RMachucaA]

This reminds me of the incident at Road Atlanta in the 90's; It ended in a car snapped in half, a career-ending injury, and a large lawsuit IIRC. Not a good situation at all. The tires should be tethered down or some other form of softbarrier should be used. The AI should also not plow through the Blackwood barrier lap after lap. God that's annoying...

+1.

Jeremy Dale's career was ended in that incident, it was an imsa race and he t-boned another prototype car when it bounced off the tyres, bringing on the track tyres and the car.

Anyways, -1 for me.

They are there for a very valid reason, and when accidents happen, well, its an accident. I'd much rather have the tyres there behaving the way they behave, then to have people cutting every corner.

If anything, they could be changed to the ky style bumps that will damage your suspension.

[XCNuse]

i dont remember that incident (although i bet i was there, i was at seriously every race at road atlanta through the early 90s)

my dad however said that usually tire barriers are just ...now i dont remember, but they aren't strung together, but they are all connected, so that when they are hit they just fall over, what i do remember him saying about them though is people were told never to stick their faces near the holes or their arms or legs in them because snakes would often live in them after water built up :)

[Hankstar]

Yep, this gets my back up on occasion as well. At Aston, yes, but especially at the first chicane at FE Green. On lap 1, just like anywhere else, the whole gaggle tries to squeeze through that turn at once and it only takes one person to knock those tyres onto the track and ruin the race for everyone behind. I've seen people do it on purpose too, the punks :D

Anyway, it's a "yes" from me, please tether the tyre barriers :nod:

[r4ptor]

-1 from me too.

I've had races ending this way, but I prefer such randomness rather that a static track.

[Hankstar]

-1?

So you disagree with tethering tyres so they don't bounce onto the track and ruin other peoples' races? The OP wants to keep tyres, but keep them tied down or tied to a wall (as in RL) so they absorb impact but remain where they are and don't become a track hazard. I think this is a good suggestion which would both improve races and better reflect reality.

I'm unsure how having "randomness" such as tyres bouncing across the track during a race you're trying to win (or at least finish in one piece) is a good thing. This isn't Mario Kart!

I'm also unsure what is meant by "static track". If it means that barriers stay more or less where they are after impact, as opposed to covering the track with debris, then let's have more static.

[mrodgers]

I'm guessing by "static track" it is assuming the tires are like a solid object that doesn't move when you hit them. Yes, the tires should still move, should still absorb impact, but should not be flying all over the track creating a hazard to everyone else racing.

Unfortunately, the tire barriers in LFS are not for impact absorption. They are there to prevent people from cutting the corners and cheating.

[Breizh]

What would the difference be, between static tire barricades then and red & white barricades now?

[RMachucaA]

I was just racing on asclub with the foxes, was battling for 3rd place working my way up, someone nudged one of the tyres on the fast chicane ahead of me, and it came out onto the track surprising me, i avoided hitting it... but it tagged me on the RR just hard enough to make me spin.

I Loved the experience, its what keeps LFS fresh day in and day out, never the same race twice.

[r4ptor]

-1?

So you disagree with tethering tyres so they don't bounce onto the track and ruin other peoples' races?

Yes, -1
And no, I'm not saying we should have more debris (wings etc. from crashed cars would by good though but thats OT :razz:).

[Yaamboo]

I haven't seen such thing on a race track since the 50's.
Here's a pic from Spa in 2002 (I suppose):
http://www.fisc-racing.com/press.html

They are still used on lower race classes. I have no problem with them atm ;)

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i1039/103907_9mg.jpg <- this one is from Surfers Paradise (V8 Supercars)

[deggis]

If anything, they could be changed to the ky style bumps that will damage your suspension.
With soft enough setup those bumps there do nothing to prevent cutting... but at least those doesn't cause havok for cars coming behind you. Feels weird how low priority this whole collision detection seems to have on devs' to do list... regarding that it has so huge effect on online play, everytime you touch a tyre or other car there's chance of getting a free flight ticket to moon.

[Gunn]

+1 for tethered tyre stacks.

[BurnOut69]

+1

More views on the matter can be found in this thread:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=18967

[SpaceMarineITA]

-1
it's realistic that if u crash on tyres they move on.

Do you prefer Rfactor "plastic" tyres?

[Osco]

-1 from me..

[mcintyrej]

Why not have the Option to have teathered tires? Add them as an object on the list. This wouldn't really affect anyone who doesn't want them. As they don't have to use them.

+1 from me anyway.

[T-6 TURBO]

super -1 for me .Tied down tires = more damage......net behind tire would slow down car if it also hit the net.No tires = ppll cutting the corner... why not just be happy and keep it there. I personally like dodging tires when they run wild:thumb:

[amp88]

Just watching the 1996 Italian GP and was reminded of this thread. Hakkinen clips the untethered tyres and sends 2 of them rolling out onto the track. Luckily avoided by all drivers but a dangerous hazard nonetheless. I reckon they should be removed from LFS entirely, unless they're only placed for safety, to contain a car that goes off the track (though that might end up in more chaos with our current collision model/detection).

[Zachary Zoomy]

-1. but how about once the tire is hit it doesn't come back. that corner will be without tires. I'd like LFS to have a black flag no cutting rule for this.

[geeman1]

I'd like LFS to have a black flag no cutting rule for this.Automatic black flags don't work. You might accidently cut the track. Black flag is a quite drastic measure, therefore it shouldn't be automatically given.

[Woz]

I think tie them down so they move a bit when hit but that is it. Any car that hits them would then be stopped.

At present you have the situation that once the tyres are "taken out" from an impact it leave the path open for people to cut corners which is then what happens.

Making it that hitting them normally stopped you and caused damage from teh impact would make people drive more as they would IRL. The more risks that your race is over when you off the better, the new "no car reset" in the test patch is great and adds loads of "risk" to the race.

[frokki]

Feels weird how low priority this whole collision detection seems to have on devs' to do list... regarding that it has so huge effect on online play, everytime you touch a tyre or other car there's chance of getting a free flight ticket to moon.I think the collision system just balances things - there are also loads of crashes that you leave in perfectly fine condition, but if the damage model was complete, your car would be totally undriveable :)

[sweetreid]

-1

There is no safety! They are hazards that you need to deal with. Tires aren't used as safety stacks very often in the game, those should be tied down. Ones that are stopping cutting at chicanes are working well.

The ky bumps should have a moat(no water) around them. A depression before the speed bump would ruin the suspension much more. Or maybe just bigger bumps.

[col]

...Feels weird how low priority this whole collision detection seems to have on devs' to do list... regarding that it has so huge effect on online play, everytime you touch a tyre or other car there's chance of getting a free flight ticket to moon.

Thats interesting... when did Scawen explain that collision detection was low priority? I must have missed that... [/sarcasm]

Do you have any idea how complex a comprehensive collision detection/response system is for this kind of game?
And of course, even if it was easy to do, it wouldn't be released until the next 'incompatible' patch

[Dajmin]

I don't want to sound like a fanboy here, but I'll try to explain why I think it's being done this way.

Firstly, you need to get the global physics sorted. That means completely ignoring all other cars so that your car drives the way it should.

Secondly, you need to get the netcode ready for handling however many people you intend on allowing per race.

If you worked the collisions before either of these, you'd then have to alter them every time one of the others changed, which would mean relearning every car on every track.

I'd imagine collisions will be on the list once the code is set up to counter the lag from 47 people :)

[originalau]

Ok, some more from V8 Supercars, all the piles are tethered together but the piles are seperate.

Also only 1 moving tire in this clip :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwBMTnLi9pk

[Eldanor]

what i do remember him saying about them though is people were told never to stick their faces near the holes or their arms or legs in them because snakes would often live in them after water built up :)

ROLF, Breaking news: "Driver gets attacked by some snakes after he crashed his car in a tyre barrier"

Now on topic: In the tracks I've seen tyres are tied together for them not to spread in the track, but they are still soft if you crash them (Not like the concrete filled ISI tyrewalls). So +1 from me. The thing is a better collision detection is needed at high speeds for this to work well.

[Julppu]

... i do remember him saying about them though is people were told never to stick their faces near the holes or their arms or legs in them because snakes would often live in them after water built up :)

Now there's an idea for true improvement..

[Eldanor]

Now there's an idea for true improvement..

Yes!, we want tyre snakes modelling in LFS in Patch X! :razz:

[amp88]

Ok, some more from V8 Supercars, all the piles are tethered together but the piles are seperate.

Also only 1 moving tire in this clip :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwBMTnLi9pk

Awww, they just cut off Sheene's legendary "That's what they call a control tyre!" line.

[geeman1]

Yes!, we want tyre snakes modelling in LFS in Patch X! :razz:http://www.tvguide.com/images/pgimg/samuel-l-jackson1.jpg

[Venus]

Actually... I wouldn't mind seeing them go.. and replace the apex with a stick, and if you hit the stick, or go inside of it, you get a black flag for cutting... that stops cutting, and keeps to real racing rules... I agree in a real race they would be tied down securely, so they wouldn't come loose for safety... that should be mimicked in lfs.

V

[Nathan_French_14]

-1 from me. I like them the way they are. They can provide a laugh too. For example, i was on CLC the other week. I was in my FZ5 trying to pass about 4 Uf1's, but they kept on blocking me, so as we passed the pits coming upto T1, i cut the corner but misjudged it, resulting with me plowing into the tyres. Anyway, it sent the tyres screaming across the track, which then hit all the UF1's making them spin off track. Wish i had a replay, but it was funny :)

Frenchy

[ManwithanF1]

These 'soft' tyres barriers placed in some critical chicanes (Aston, Westhill) are so annoying because the tyres are flying around and rolling all over the track when someone hit them. I haven't seen such thing on a race track since the 50's.
One hour ago my car literally lifted off like a plane on one of these tyres and thus ruined my race.

Keep the 'soft' barriers but please, no flying/rolling tyres anymore :)

:really:Sorry, but I am going to have to disagree completely. First of all, as others have said, tire walls are used on nearly EVERY race track these days as a safety measure. The walls are excellent at absorbing impact. Also, flying and rolling tyres are REALISTIC. Why would you not want realism in a simulation game? I think the tyre-wall physics are excellent and act very realistically. By the way, if you hit one of these tyres and crash, then tough luck. Debris on the racetrack is all part of racing. You should do your best to avoid it. After all, everytime someone wrecks in real life there is debris which can cut your tires, or cause damage. You're lucky that LFS doesn't also include this aspect in the game!

Have a nice day!

[r4ptor]

Actually... I wouldn't mind seeing them go.. and replace the apex with a stick, and if you hit the stick, or go inside of it, you get a black flag for cutting... that stops cutting, and keeps to real racing rules...

It would be fair to get a black flag because you accidentally cut - forinstance because another car pushed you?

I would instead like to have the current cut detection thingy from HL mode (but should only detect at turns/chicanes) to be available in multiplayer, but something that shows up in statistics as numbers - then organizers could have a look at that driver who made XX amount of cuts, to see if there was anything specious about it.. or just add in the rule that after X amount of cuts, you start getting time penalty.

[frokki]

Yes!, we want tyre snakes modelling in LFS in Patch X! :razz:http://xs215.xs.to/xs215/07211/tyre_snake.jpg
Please forgive me, it's my first time ever with GIMP.
EDIT: Well, actually my avatar was the first. This is second. :p