Incompatible **TEST** Patch W9

[Scawen]

WARNING : THIS IS A TEST

Hello racers.

Here is a new test patch W9. It can play the hotlaps made by the old version, even though there is one physics change - clutch preload. It's also incompatible for various other reasons - it can allow up to 28 cars in a race, in S1 or S2 mode, there is a global class balancing system which is currently applied to the TBO and GTR classes, and there are various other multiplayer improvements.

There are a LOT of changes, so there will probably be some problems - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!! :D

You cannot connect to old W versions! The host must be W9 or later!

Changes in TEST PATCH W9 :

Car is no longer held at start line - false starts possible
Start lights time between red and green is changed each race
Implemented the canreset option while leaving hotlaps valid
Added preload setting to clutch pack differentials
Increased number of cars in race from 20 to 28
Increased number of connections from 24 to 48
Single player and demo races now up to 16 cars
Start and pit fuel loads range from 1% to 100%
New voluntary handicap system in pits (part of setup)
Remote car's handicap shown in F11 menu, tyres in F12 menu
Global handicaps for class balancing (set by master server)
Removed the need to pass a split after receiving admin penalty
Start grid remains when track or config changes (if possible)
More commands now work on AI drivers : /spec /pitlane /p_xxx
More commands work even if player joining e.g. /spec /laps
Grid reordering is now done on end race as well as restart
New /i command to send a message to a race control program
Added short track name to SPR, MPR and RAF file formats
More race tracking info added to InSim (see InSim.txt)
Admins can now see other admins in list of connections
Admins can now edit and /axsave layouts while online
Admin ban dialog now asks for a number of days to ban
Added text on screen showing the reason for a penalty
Race penalty can now be removed with /p_clear command
Send all players to their pits with /pit_all command
Autocross results table only shows best 12 results
Timeout for dead connection reduced to 12 seconds
Kick and ban votes are held open a little longer
Removed the option not to use HVS if available
SHIFT + S enters garage from game setup screen
SHIFT + O enters options from SP replay
Display option : Virtual steering gauge
Display option : Rotate small map

FIX : F12 now shows "Pit stop required : OK" correctly
FIX : Find user in S2 mode looking for racer on S1 host
FIX : Message "NETWORK FATAL : NOTSOCK" when joining a host
FIX : Autocross layout number of laps sometimes did not load

DOWNLOAD :

PATCH (Version W must already be installed) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_MP_TEST_W9.exe

ZIP VERSION (If you prefer a zip file) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_MP_TEST_W9.zip

DEDICATED HOST (for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_W9.zip

[Davo]

I've been hitting F5 forever. Thanks for this great patch, looking forward to 28 car pile ups in turn1 :)

[ORION]

lol seems like dave and belain were pretty wuick there ;)

[St4Lk3R]

Wooohoo :>

/me makes a copy of my LFS Directory, applies the patch and tests out the new fancy false starts system :)

[hrtburnout]

OMFG! Thank you devs! :bowdown:

[wheel4hummer]

OMG! W9? False starts! F'n awesome.... I don't care that it is incompatible! :D

[mcintyrej]

OH my, Scawen your a machine. Thanks alot bud!

[joen]

There are a LOT of changes, so there will probably be some problems - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!! :D

Weee!! I love getting into trouble :D

[rc10racer]

For some reason all i kept on getting when trying to join the server that Vic and scawen is on i kept on getting unexpected size packet all the time

[axus]

:D Much thanks for the clutch pack preload, can't wait for my LFS folder to copy so I can try it out. False starts is a fantastic addition! I'm wondering if you saw some people's suggestion to have the option to turn the brake into a clutch and vice versa with the use of a button, I'm not sure if it's possible with the script system but it would be a nice addition to help people who don't have a clutch pedal...

I see my LFS folder's copied over --> testing. :thumb:

[XenoWolf]

Looking through the list, something really stood out to me.

Autocross results table only shows best 12 results

That'll completely screw me up when I'm hosting stage rally events! The last few events I've hosted have had around or more than 12 drivers, and if this is implimented it'll mean that I won't be able to see the times that the slower drivers posted. I really, REALLY hope this doesn't get implimented into the next patch.

[FOGlegsy]

Is there a reason why i cant unlock W9? ive just changed game password again to check but to no avail, stuck here in demo mode :(

[hrtburnout]

Change to windowed mode, and see if any firewall messages pop up.

[FOGlegsy]

Is there a reason why i cant unlock W9? ive just changed game password again to check but to no avail, stuck here in demo mode :(


OK tried unlocking a fresh copy of W then unlocked that, applied W9 and now all is fine,

So it wouldnt unlock AFTER W9 was installed on my system:thumb:

[Davo]

Is there a reason why i cant unlock W9? ive just changed game password again to check but to no avail, stuck here in demo mode :(

You're not alone. I couldn't unlock it either after installing in top of a fresh W install. Kept getting an unkown command error. Ended up just copying my existing install and installing ontop of that. Didn't even have to unlock.

[germanpio]

Now we have false start you can think of a Formation Lap ;)

[amp88]

You can get a false start for moving before the countdown in quali too. Not sure if this is desired or not, but it surprised me.

[GP4Flo]

The admin should type in /pit_all anyway, that's way more realistic. :)

[XCNuse]

handicaps... what the!?! WOOHOOO!!!!

now can someone explain to me how preloads work lol i've never figured it out (wiki links or whatever would do fine also)

rofl you can lower hte UF1k to 24 bhp!!!! HAHAHAHA YES!

[Frankmd]

So, just 2 servers in patch W9, nobody wants to race? I need a replay with some decent amount of cars in the new patch version.

[r4ptor]

Meeeh! Bloddy awesome update!

[TiJay]

Sounds good, but a couple of questions about the balancing:

- How can the cars be handicapped? Is it realistic eg ballast/restrictor plates or some GT4-style catchup thing?

- If a player has a setup for a particular track and his car then has a handicap applied when he joins a server, won't this throw the player of as the car will react and perform differently, thus making a track-specific setup useless?

[FOGlegsy]

So, just 2 servers in patch W9, nobody wants to race? I need a replay with some decent amount of cars in the new patch version.
I see 29 servers

[XCNuse]

tijay, just go to car selection, get a car, and in info you can set intake restriction, and balasts (and position the balast)

[mr_x]

I've noticed 1 thing with the handicap weight thing.

with the FXO the weight can be shifted forward/back even if the handicap weight is set to 0 and it seems to have an effect on the car too.

[PLAYLIFE]

I'll give this a whirl in an hour.

I see the "no reset" option isn't here. God, I hope it makes it into the next version. I really like that LFS is becoming more hard core :)

[ImportFantasy]

Omg Scawen Thank You!

[Shotglass]

awesome

Global handicaps for class balancing (set by master server)

care to elaborate ?

[Frankmd]

I see 29 servers


Doh, had the filter on GTR... :shrug:

[TiJay]

XCNuse: Thanks- sorry, I should have tried the thing first! :thumb:

Shotglass: You can set intake restriction and ballast.

But my other point still stands, won't this disrupt a well-tuned track-specific setup and throw the driver off as the car will react differently to what they're used to with that setup?

[d6nn]

Omg Scawen Thank You!


double that

[Shotglass]

now can someone explain to me how preloads work lol i've never figured it out (wiki links or whatever would do fine also)

basically its just that the diff i locked to a certain degree when theres no torque going through it radially (ie from the wheels to the engine or other way round)

You can set intake restriction and ballast.

i know but which nerfs are applied globally ?

[tiagolapa]

XCNuse: Thanks- sorry, I should have tried the thing first! :thumb:

But my other point still stands, won't this disrupt a well-tuned track-specific setup and throw the driver off as the car will react differently to what they're used to with that setup?

In leagues it could be fun. You will know before you have to use extra weight in next race, so you must practice with that extra weigth in mind. In random servers i agree with you, it could be a problem to ajust setup fast:)

[Vykos69]

I've noticed 1 thing with the handicap weight thing.

with the FXO the weight can be shifted forward/back even if the handicap weight is set to 0 and it seems to have an effect on the car too.
Cause there is already a weight balance from overall balance system. And that you can move. ;)

[Scawen]

Is there a reason why i cant unlock W9? ive just changed game password again to check but to no avail, stuck here in demo mode :(It should work now, I forgot to enable W9 unlocking on the master server.
I've noticed 1 thing with the handicap weight thing.

with the FXO the weight can be shifted forward/back even if the handicap weight is set to 0 and it seems to have an effect on the car too.The FXO already has a compulsory handicap applied, even if you don't add any voluntary handicap.
And you can move that where you like between the front and rear wheels (as you can with a voluntary handicap).

Globally handicapped cars :

TBO class : FXO, XRT
GTR class : FZR, XRR

[Frankmd]

How 'false' should a false start be before you are forced to spectate? Driven a certain amount of meters or certain time before the green?

[Scawen]

I see the "no reset" option isn't here. God, I hope it makes it into the next version. I really like that LFS is becoming more hard core :)Default setting /canreset=no

It only works in multiplayer.

How 'false' should a false start be before you are forced to spectate? Driven a certain amount of meters or certain time before the green?You are forced to spectate if you drive more than about 4 metres before the green light.

For anyone who hasn't tried it yet - that is for extreme false starts, to stop wreckers. If you do a false start by mistake you get a drive through penalty.

[detail]

What about removing a class-balancing handicap if the car is the only allowed on a host?

[XCNuse]

well just for those curious how much effect the restrictions have,
with some random set...

a full tank, unrestriced UF1k with full male passengers will have a 0-60 time of:
12ish seconds
same thing, but with full restrictions, a UF1k will have a 0-60 time of:
46 secons ...... LOL!

[sinbad]

Are the global handicaps the same for every track? I ask because handicapping the XRT against the RB4 somewhere like Blackwood makes sense, but the handicap should work the other way somewhere like Aston Cadet.

[Shotglass]

Globally handicapped cars :

TBO class : FXO, XRT
GTR class : FZR, XRR

maybe i missed something but can the server override these global handicaps ?
also it would be nice if you could move the handicap weight laterally to make up for the driver sitting on one side of the car

[GieTe-R]

Falstart = Spectate :/ Its a little unreal thing.
I think its can be many better if Driver X who made a falstart got a extra time to his lap time ;) I mean 01:01:01 + hmm some time for a penalty.

00:00:00 Start
Falstart
01:01:01 Final time + 00:30:00 seconds penalty ;) its can be more realistic :)

[marcione]

@scawen

how to set the 20 spec slots ?

[CLRS530]

Falstart = Spectate :/ Its a little unreal thing.
I think its can be many better if Driver X who made a falstart got a extra time to his lap time ;) I mean 01:01:01 + hmm some time for a penalty.

00:00:00 Start
Falstart
01:01:01 Final time + 00:30:00 seconds penalty ;) its can be more realistic :)

Yes but this is a game and if someone will make damage and won´t race clean he has to be stopped.
Such a false start shouldn´t happen.

[kiss me]

hi scawen,

when changing the weight (with the slider) the weight doesnt get displayed correctly... it kind of flashes the current weight but keeps showing the normal weight(no additional weight) at the car specs... it changes next to the slider but not at the car info untill i release the slider...

just thought it should post this

[GieTe-R]

Yes but this is a game and if someone will make damage and won´t race clean he has to be stopped.
Such a false start shouldn´t happen.

Hmm.. sad but true ;) So maybe, if its possible? Driver X maked falstart, and if hit some car, then moved to spectate? Or get a bigger penalty? Hmm.. Or.. nvmd :D

[ORION]

For anyone who hasn't tried it yet - that is for extreme false starts, to stop wreckers. If you do a false start by mistake you get a drive through penalty.

I havent tested this yet, but does it also work when the wrecker is lagging for a short time, lets say by unplugging his network cable for a second?
So lets assume he unplugs the cable, then starts driving (not noticed by the server), plugs in the cable, and appears in another car. :x :D

[Vykos69]

Are the global handicaps the same for every track? I ask because handicapping the XRT against the RB4 somewhere like Blackwood makes sense, but the handicap should work the other way somewhere like Aston Cadet.

No. And I know, you'll figure out why, cause I know you as a smart guy ;)

[kiss me]

I havent tested this yet, but does it also work when the wrecker is lagging for a short time, lets say by unplugging his network cable for a second?
So lets assume he unplugs the cable, then starts driving (not noticed by the server), plugs in the cable, and appears in another car. :x :D
that would be one hell of a strange driver :p, allso wouldnt he be disconnected from the server cuz in windows it takes a couple of seconds time before internet reconnects after the cable is plugged in

[Smurfen]

WARNING: Noob question
what is Added preload setting to clutch pack differentials? :D

[three_jump]

hmm, I just got a false start just by standing in the grid and playing with the throttle, I didn't even had the hand near the shifter.

and the replay doesn't even show me the false start message...

see replay

[axus]

:) Loving the handling with the preload (driving LX4)! It requires you to be much smoother but it's very rewarding. :thumb:

[szyszek]

BUG REPORT

Watch attached replay: I'm standing at the start, I get sent to spectate for a falstart. Thing is I never let go of the clutch. (In the replay it doesn't actually say anything about the penalty. I guess it wasn't saved - it showed up at the time though).

[Renku]

There seems to be smth wrong somewhere. LiveForSpeed.ee server isn't listed on LFS World, but it is in game. The people who race there - Online Racer Stats get updated, but not the Online Race Results page, on LFS World.

[Lautsprecher[NOR]]

LFS just crashed when scrolling through the Setup-list. This happened online, Offline worked fine.
Also, adding 200 KG to the rear of the MRT is not recommended. The MRT spun off the screen, and kept on flying around :P

[kiss me]

BUG REPORT

Watch attached replay: I'm standing at the start, I get sent to spectate for a falstart. Thing is I never let go of the clutch. (In the replay it doesn't actually say anything about the penalty. I guess it wasn't saved - it showed up at the time though).
i dont see anything besides 'jeep' taking off early

[AndroidXP]

Awesome work Scawen! :thumbsup:

One minor thing I noticed, while you drag the handicap sliders, the shown car properties behave very "inconsistently". It's jumping back and forth between value-as-if-there-was-no-handicap and the ones with the current handicap applied. Just a minor thing, really.

[kiss me]

Awesome work Scawen! :thumbsup:

One minor thing I noticed, while you drag the handicap sliders, the shown car properties behave very "inconsistently". It's jumping back and forth between value-as-if-there-was-no-handicap and the ones with the current handicap applied. Just a minor thing, really.
thats what i said :p
glad i'm not alone, i do hope if scawen reacts to this i'll get qouted :D would be such an honour :)

[ORION]

that would be one hell of a strange driver :p, allso wouldnt he be disconnected from the server cuz in windows it takes a couple of seconds time before internet reconnects after the cable is plugged in

If the cable is unplugged for a short time, it works even in windows ;)

[kiss me]

If the cable is unplugged for a short time, it works even in windows ;)
ah well.. cant u understand??
ur talking to me, whilst there's no school??
i dont think on vacation... acctually i never think :p

[spiderbait90]

bug

Choose MRT - added mass = 200 added mass position = 0

The car will fly about.

[szyszek]

i dont see anything besides 'jeep' taking off early

Read my post carefully pls. I did say that the message of me getting sent to spectate because of a falstart somehow wasn't saved in the replay, hence it cannot be seen.

[geeman1]

;392038']Also, adding 200 KG to the rear of the MRT is not recommended. The MRT spun off the screen, and kept on flying around :PThat could be fixed by reducing the amount of handicap available for MRT, 200kg almost doubles it's weight, that's a bit extreme :p
PS. It does not matter which end you add the weight, result is the same: car goes flying.

[kiss me]

oh sorry..
it seems to be a bug cuz i aint seeing u leave early...
this is a test u know.. not meant to be bug free 'yet'

[detail]

On false-start, is it possible to replace force-spec with just a dq? Dissapearing cars in championships would be not a good sight.

[szyszek]

kiss_me: no problem :)

Detail : I think that even a DQ is too strong. IMO a 30 sec time penalty would be enough. But on the other hand I think it's a matter of setting up the server. Apparently on some servers the penalty is 30sec, on some it's spectate.

Oh, I didn't say this before: I absolutely love this patch!

[scipy]

not to rain on everyone's parade.. but the global ballast system needs to be modified.. u need to be able to remove all the weight from fzr and xrr, otherwise.. all the current setups we have, can be pretty much thrown away. it needs to be made a server-side feature, so a league that runs all 3 gtrs can enable it, and maybe even put different weights (80 fzr, 30 xrr) etc, depending on which cars are running.. i dont know if this is possible already, but i havent seen it in server options..

[Don]

On false-start, is it possible to replace force-spec with just a dq? Dissapearing cars in championships would be not a good sight.
the force-spec is there for a reason, as a "wrecker protection" - it sends you to spectate if you move more than 4 metres from your starting position. So, if you do accidently a jump start like 1 sec before the green lights, you shouldnt move more than 4meters

[Smurfen]

i try again:
Noob question:
what is: Added preload setting to clutch pack differentials? :D

[Frankmd]

On false-start, is it possible to replace force-spec with just a dq? Dissapearing cars in championships would be not a good sight.

I think people in championships will understand not to drive more then 4 meter after a jumpstart. Otherwise they are just stupid.

[kiss me]

basically its just that the diff i locked to a certain degree when theres no torque going through it radially (ie from the wheels to the engine or other way round)



i know but which nerfs are applied globally ?

good enuff smurfen? :p

[rc10racer]

@ scawen - this is the funnest bug i have ever seen

This is what i did (well jonesy_ to be picky) i set the voluntary added mass to 200kg and added weight to 0% (front & see picture to see what i did). Then pick the mrt and you see what happens (check spr).

Hope this helps in anyway :)

[marcione]

Edit

[detail]

@ Don & Frankmd: ok. IMO, anyway this should be a an option with force-spec as default.

[PLAYLIFE]

I think for normal servers the auto kick to spectate on too early race start must stay to protect against wreckers. Hopefully they will be kicked faster than they can hit anybody.

[rc10racer]

How come you can chance the weight from the front to the rear should this be disabled in HL mode of performance gain?

[Widdowmaker]

Excellent New Patch :thumb: Gonna be great for the leagues....

Have found the following small issues

1) With space reset enabled - it resets damage (changes tyres for fresh and clear all damage)- it should not do this - as you should have to pit to repair damage (this was in Multiplayer)

2) in F9 wheel view (in RB4)- the connections tab now covers the left hand rear wheel so I cant see the outer band temp -

3) False start issues but reported in other posts.

[geeman1]

1) With space reset enabled - it resets damage (changes tyres for fresh and clear all damage)- it should not do this - as you should have to pit to repair damageIt does that in Single Player, has been like that always.

[PLAYLIFE]

1) With space reset enabled - it resets damage (changes tyres for fresh and clear all damage)- it should not do this - as you should have to pit to repair damage


Is this in single player? Cos in single player its always been like this. In multiplayer it obviously should not be so.

EDIT: Apparently there is shorter connection from Finland to the UK than from Estonia.

[jegorchangai]

Is it possible for a admin to give a player IN GAME a FORCED penalty to performance(weight etc?)

[Smurfen]

good enuff smurfen? :p

didnt really get it but ok :D lol

[kiss me]

didnt really get it but ok :D lol
neither did i

[duke_toaster]

No bugs other than the rather amusing selection that have been said before. The BF1 on 50% intake restrictor is the ultimate sheep in wolf's clothing.

What would these global handicaps be? How many KG - and is this track dependant or not? It would be an idea if it was :)

[evosports]

It does that in Single Player, has been like that always.

he means in multiplayer :) coz i also noticed this

[franky500]

its deffinatly multiplayer. (i was there and tested myself). no matter how bad the damage. reset car = clean (multiplayer).

It would be nice if the server could choose balast / intake settings and also for the false start = spectate.. a little too sensitive i think.

Possible bug.. :

If you change track (as in go from BL1 to AS2 or something) and then leave the server without ever actually leaving the entry screen to load the track. you cannot get back into the server (and nobody else can join) untill the server is restarted or the race is joined and started.

[Woz]

How come you can chance the weight from the front to the rear should this be disabled in HL mode of performance gain?

No, you are only moving weight added to the car around. So being able to move this in hotlap mode is no different. You can change any other setting on the car in hotlap mode so why not this?

[Widdowmaker]

Space Resetting

Found that if you are on track with resettting enabled - that it will not allow you to reset - due to causing yellow flags - Thats the message I got anyway.

I thought I should raise the fact - that although in the first instance this seemed ideal - Rests are allowed anyway - but it should reset you off the track egde - rather than back on the track.

The scenario - Ive gone through the first chicane at blackwood - hit the barrier and rendered my car undrivable in the center of the exit to the chicane. Reset is enabled - but I cant reset because I will cause yellow flag. SO the next car piles straight into me as I cant move away from the racing line.

If resetting is enabled - why disable it on the racing line?

The above post is not a critisism, it may come across that way - but its asking the question rather than saying its wrong - cheers

[zockmachine]

bug

in multiplayer, e.g. the fzr car's weight is 1200kilos, but only after adding more than 100kiols extra weight it counts. so you only can add till 1300kilos.

-----

bug

after starting the qualication, you automatically get into spectate mode

[Moonclaw]

MRT moonflight happens with 200kg at 34% and 100% in garage, but not in game, before a hard turn anyway. 200kg at 32% sends it flying straight away.

[NotAnIllusion]

Awesome stuff, can't wait to try all these new features. Thank you very, very much for this patch! :thumbsup:

[orange_boy_uk]

Nice, tried it on a 28 server and wow racing got alot better :D

[al heeley]

i don't know if its my lack of familiarity with the more powerful rwd cars but I seem to get a huge amount of understeer under braking when entering a corner, far more than before. Maybe the new clutch settings need something dialled back out, or I have to learn to drive better...

[Scawen]

;392038']LFS just crashed when scrolling through the Setup-list. This happened online, Offline worked fine.If you can reproduce the setup list crash, please can you try to get the crash address? Normally you have to click in the windows message for more info (twice) and there is the crash address.

On false-start, is it possible to replace force-spec with just a dq? Dissapearing cars in championships would be not a good sight.In reality, anyone who starts so long before the green light, will immediately hit the brakes then start again when they see the green light. I've never seen a false starter in real life just carry on driving down the middle of the grid or whatever.

1) With space reset enabled - it resets damage (changes tyres for fresh and clear all damage)- it should not do this - as you should have to pit to repair damage (this was in Multiplayer)No, canreset should be "no" for all hosts except arcade hosts for beginners. This is supposed to be a purely "arcade" option, it fixes damage and takes you out of the gravel, that's good for example if you have LFS set up at a show and the public are using it. For sim racing, canreset should not be switched on at all. I'd prefer not to add a middle option.

--------

Bug reports : Thanks, I've noted them and will have a look in the next couple of days.

[Kid222]

Awesome stuff, can't wait to try all these new features. Thank you very, very much for this patch! :thumbsup:
+1, very nice, i love it!

[Widdowmaker]

quote=Scawen
No, canreset should be "no" for all hosts except arcade hosts for beginners. This is supposed to be a purely "arcade" option, it fixes damage and takes you out of the gravel, that's good for example if you have LFS set up at a show and the public are using it. For sim racing, canreset should not be switched on at all. I'd prefer not to add a middle option.


So in all essence then - Space reseting on normal online servers for day to day racing 5 lappers etc/club/league racing - is no longer an option. Thats cool. You roll it and stop on your roof - thats race over.

Fine by me.:thumb:

[amp88]

Hmmm, was just trying out the false start there and I got one in a race even though I don't think I was moving until the green light. Take a look at the screenshots/replay. Is this a false false start?

[hotmail]

OKEY I THINK THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM

when you are doing drag and you have a false start you can come in 0:04:7x sec to the finish.
lfsw think that you have drove a pb time, but you did it with a false start.
is there a way how we can save this.

i all ready see al the noobs starting with a false start.:x

srry for bad english, i think you can understand what i mean

reintjan

[GruntOfAction]

Oh great. When STCC updates to this now theres gonna be MORE people lol.

Gonna really screw up the clean drivers XDXD

Jking it sounds like fun though.

I'll wait till the offical patch comes out though *coughpatchXcough* :D

[Shotglass]

bug

in multiplayer, e.g. the fzr car's weight is 1200kilos, but only after adding more than 100kiols extra weight it counts. so you only can add till 1300kilos.

master server handicaps i guess
100 is the min handicap for the fzr or something like that

[Vykos69]

i don't know if its my lack of familiarity with the more powerful rwd cars but I seem to get a huge amount of understeer under braking when entering a corner, far more than before. Maybe the new clutch settings need something dialled back out, or I have to learn to drive better...
I bet on both of it :) Sure, braking and setups has to be tuned from locked diff to clutch pack ;)

[ajp71]

Is there anyway for a server to set its own restrictions (and to override the global restrictions?)? Maybe it's being saved for the proper patch?

[axus]

Just thought I'd post two setups that drive well with the preload settings. I really think that the FZR set has amazing grip (though admittedly, I've just set up the diff on it - the LX4 set is my own work). Have fun. :thumb:

[Lotsipxes]

I don't think the intake restriction is quite right at the moment. When you have a restrictor plate, the engine has about the same horsepower at low revs. But at high revs, the engine "run out of air" and looses horsepower.

I did a very unscientific test and it felt like the intake restriction was a linear scaling over the power band.

But maybe this will be implemented later.

[geeman1]

No, canreset should be "no" for all hosts except arcade hosts for beginners. This is supposed to be a purely "arcade" option, it fixes damage and takes you out of the gravel, that's good for example if you have LFS set up at a show and the public are using it. For sim racing, canreset should not be switched on at all. I'd prefer not to add a middle option.That's a good choice imho. No more moral dilemmas about resetting and that's just realism.

[Scawen]

Is there anyway for a server to set its own restrictions (and to override the global restrictions?)? Maybe it's being saved for the proper patch?No, the global restrictions are meant mainly as a correction for what we can't get exactly right during beta testing. Though at the moment it's more wrong than it should be in future - for example the FXO turbo is just so light it's unreasonable - it must have a carbon fibre body and also those wide wheels like a racing car - but it's supposed to be a road car - it's just not right. That's why it has to carry a lot of restriction now. After the physically incompatible patch, restrictions should be back to zero, until we find with time and setup development that one of the cars goes too fast, then we'll restrict it. It's not intended to be that every host has different settings. It's supposed to provide consistency, so that you can drive your XRT and win, not just have to go in the FXO for any chance of success like it has been until now.

[GruntOfAction]

When I extract the file to install it just puts abunch of languages in a folder and doesn't install ;(

[Jakg]

does it replace LFS.exe? if so, it's installed!

[Bob Smith]

Argh, damn. Every single time I've ever left home for a week to stay with my parents (where I can't play LFS), a new patch comes out. EVERY DAMN TIME!

The question: as infuriating as it is... should I start visiting them more often? :scratchch

/OT

[tikshow]

Argh, damn. Every single time I've ever left home for a week to stay with my parents (where I can't play LFS), a new patch comes out. EVERY DAMN TIME!

The question: as infuriating as it is... should I start visiting them more often? :scratchch

/OT
yes-yes-yes :D

[Blerpa]

No, the global restrictions are meant mainly as a correction for what we can't get exactly right during beta testing. Though at the moment it's more wrong than it should be in future - for example the FXO turbo is just so light it's unreasonable - it must have a carbon fibre body and also those wide wheels like a racing car - but it's supposed to be a road car - it's just not right. That's why it has to carry a lot of restriction now. After the physically incompatible patch, restrictions should be back to zero, until we find with time and setup development that one of the cars goes too fast, then we'll restrict it. It's not intended to be that every host has different settings. It's supposed to provide consistency, so that you can drive your XRT and win, not just have to go in the FXO for any chance of success like it has been until now.

That's all well and good, but in the old times when I and other people raced in GPL noone bothered if someone did choose a Lotus over a BRM.
Either we got the realistic conscious knowledge that Lotus and Eagle would be obviously quicker than the others and we were fine with it, because so it was in real racing back then in 1967 and today too, or quicker drivers went to choose by their own whim (without pressure by the other people) slower cars and saw it as a challenge.

Our last two seasons were won by a guy that did choose a Cooper once and then even a BRM... and battled with a full grid of Lotus, Eagle, Ferrari.
I often did choose a Brabham, and even if I knew I would be helpless with it against the others, there was a lot of fun nonetheless and it was the car I liked more to race.

Can we have at least the option left to be so that the cars will be UNbalanced?

Thanks for your time. :)

[XCNuse]

Hmmm, was just trying out the false start there and I got one in a race even though I don't think I was moving until the green light. Take a look at the screenshots/replay. Is this a false false start?
lol.. the light is green and you aren't moving .. so no its not a false start ;)

its a false start when you're moving when the lights are still red

[NotAnIllusion]

I'm really digging the clutch LSD preload, XRT is pure heaven and can be throw around a bit too :D I managed to match my normal sector times on several combos where I've previously used a locked diff setup. Great stuff!

[ATHome]

I'm feeling we are coming closer to something important :D

[SpaceMarineITA]

That's all well and good, but in the old times when I and other people raced in GPL noone bothered if someone did choose a Lotus over a BRM.
Either we got the realistic conscious knowledge that Lotus and Eagle would be obviously quicker than the others and we were fine with it, because so it was in real racing back then in 1967 and today too, or quicker drivers went to choose by their own whim (without pressure by the other people) slower cars and saw it as a challenge.

Our last two seasons were won by a guy that did choose a Cooper once and then even a BRM... and battled with a full grid of Lotus, Eagle, Ferrari.
I often did choose a Brabham, and even if I knew I would be helpless with it against the others, there was a lot of fun nonetheless and it was the car I liked more to race.

Can we have at least the option left to be so that the cars will be UNbalanced?

Thanks for your time. :)

I think that the situation which you have described is much different from the actual LFS one:

GPL is simulating an old f1 season:
simulating a season mean with all the goods and bads of each car.

LFS instead is creating and simulating completely fictional cars:
These are not meant to be identical, but at least balanced each other.
Atm FXO on longer tracks can be 3 / 4 seconds faster then RB4.
2 drivers with SIMILAR skill but different cars are realistically unable of compensating 4 seconds at lap eachother with skill difference. :)

Imho eh :D


However the amount of these limitations should be written in public somewhere (a page on liveforspeed.net, in game, on lfsworld), because if someone is developing a setup for a champ race in a, for example, 2 weeks time, and 2 days before the race you change the amount of ballast and restrictors to one car, at least he has the time for adapting his setup to the new values.

There should be an advice for each change some days before too (like 4/5 days before).

[indie]

Had a recorrent error when trying to join to an empty server, it kept saying this: "A race is starting"
The server was simracingportugal w9, after i reiniciated the server directly from the root server it go back to normal.
Wasn't able to reproduce this...

Anyway i was already on a few crowded server and seems smooth and i think i have better fps too.
Its great to race against a bigger grid :thumb:

edit: Afterall i did reproduced the error, same as i described above is happening again. This started again after another error. I gave some commands to the server, i did it while on garage where we pick the cars, and send, /cars xxx and nothing happened, after i send /track xxx and the screen blip and lfs crashed. afterwards it started showing the message "a race is starting" again. Went back to normal after i reinicated lfs this time.

[dawesdust_12]

I also had that issue when I set guestcars to 0 (to prevent people from starting while changing track) then I got disconnected, and couldn't go back in to be an admin and start the race, I now have the honour of clearing a 40 player server out in minutes :)

[Riders Motion]

Bah big dilemna: Trying W9 or wait for the official release ? I prefer to wait and get a big surprise ^^

[deggis]

False starts :thumb:

Because this patch is aimed at multiplayer stuff, is there any plans to do improve the visual car movement while online? I mean that "jerky" movement, well everyone probably knows what I mean. As far as I know currently there is no "precalculation" (or whatever that is) and that's why the other cars moves not-so-smoothly looking while online and in multiplayer replays. Improving this would make MP replays more enjoyable to watch, while playing that jerky movement doesn't really matter at all.

[r4ptor]

Bah big dilemna: Trying W9 or wait for the official release ? I prefer to wait and get a big surprise ^^

Only difference from this and the other patches we are used to, is that W9 is a "test test patch" - so you a going to have to wait for a very long if you looking for a "patch" (no "test" involved at all) :razz:

[Blerpa]

I think that the situation which you have described is much different from the actual LFS one:

GPL is simulating an old f1 season:
simulating a season mean with all the goods and bads of each car.

LFS instead is creating and simulating completely fictional cars:
These are not meant to be identical, but at least balanced each other.
Atm FXO on longer tracks can be 3 / 4 seconds faster then RB4.
2 drivers with SIMILAR skill but different cars are realistically unable of compensating 4 seconds at lap eachother with skill difference. :)

Imho eh :D


However the amount of these limitations should be written in public somewhere (a page on liveforspeed.net, in game, on lfsworld), because if someone is developing a setup for a champ race in a, for example, 2 weeks time, and 2 days before the race you change the amount of ballast and restrictors to one car, at least he has the time for adapting his setup to the new values.

There should be an advice for each change some days before too (like 4/5 days before).

Well, let's not get about the fictional cars (since everyone can see clues of which real car/s inspired every single LFS car) but in any case... Balancing car would be understandable in spec racing (well, duh!) but with DIFFERENT cars you CANNOT have a full balancing effect.
No real done racing series can achieve that.

Unless you take in account how latest regulations are ruining FIA GT and WTCC.

Yes, it's a game.
Still it is a simulation.

Honestly if I wanted a catch up/balancing option so that each car in each class would be doing the exact laptimes I would have played Need For Speed, not LFS.

I hope that's not were LFS is heading.

A worried paying member.

[amp88]

lol.. the light is green and you aren't moving .. so no its not a false start ;)

its a false start when you're moving when the lights are still red

Yes, I know the definition of a false start, I'm just wondering if this is an error/bug in the detection of jump starts, as I was given a penalty for the start whereas I don't believe I was moving before the green.

[XenoWolf]

Yeah, the MRT definately mis-behaves whenever it gets a wheel off of the ground. It flips out when you try to tip it over or when you hit a barrier!

See replay:

[Motörhead V8]

i think i found a problem in the false starts system

if someone get a false start and go fast to the garage (shift+s) before the green light comes out, then leave the garage(go back to the grid) the DT penalty is gone


i don't how to describe it very good in english, so i'm going to attach a mpr replay that reproduces the bug

this is bad, someone who get a DT penalty due false start can get rid of the penalty before the race start

sorry for bad english

[indie]

I'm now sure that what i said before is a fact.
- changing tracks inside the garage causes the client to crash, admins doing it. afterwards the server starts displaying that "a race is starting" message.
One time only i restarted lfs i could join the server, those other times i had to close and open the server on rootserver.
-i used the new command /reinit and strangly the same message appeared after the server reloaded, i tracked it to another monitor on vnc client and i'm sure to have waited for it to load, done that some times and its duplicates the situation.
-and i dont really understand how i got that message the first time i reported this.

Edit: now i just changed the cars and track on entry screen, waited for it to change, left the server, refreshed the list and the evil message returned

[SpaceMarineITA]

Well, let's not get about the fictional cars (since everyone can see clues of which real car/s inspired every single LFS car) but in any case... Balancing car would be understandable in spec racing (well, duh!) but with DIFFERENT cars you CANNOT have a full balancing effect.
No real done racing series can achieve that.

Unless you take in account how latest regulations are ruining FIA GT and WTCC.

Yes, it's a game.
Still it is a simulation.

Honestly if I wanted a catch up/balancing option so that each car in each class would be doing the exact laptimes I would have played Need For Speed, not LFS.

I hope that's not were LFS is heading.

A worried paying member.

Keep attention :) :Here noone is speaking about exact laptimes.


But if from 3 - 4 seconds advantage only for FXO we can go down within a difference of 0.5 sec in the majority part of tracks (in certain AWD will go faster, in others FWD, in others RWD too), surely it will be a better situation that the actual ones.

FIA GT is ruined by ballasts to winners imho, not by balanced or unbalanced cars :)
And WTCC from a racer prespective too (not from a TV viewer prespective, WTCC is much less boring that F1 on that aspect :) )

[indie]

First topic says that max conns is 48, i guess this number is the same as maxguests. The thing is that when i write /maxguests 48 on config.txt, its shows the following error> out of bonds :maxguests

Or does the host itself counts? :scratchch

[dawesdust_12]

I think that in Scawens count, the host counts, because if you host a non-dedi, you can get 48 connections showing on the list, but with a dedi, you can only get 47.

[XCNuse]

Yes, I know the definition of a false start, I'm just wondering if this is an error/bug in the detection of jump starts, as I was given a penalty for the start whereas I don't believe I was moving before the green.
maybe it was lag then? not sure..

i bet that will be a problem though, i can see that happening

[WGooden]

I was really surprised after trying the diff preload. It really helps the cars behave more like they should on and off the throttle... and I think alot of people are just overlooking it because they don't know what it does.

[Hyperactive]

Yes, it's a game.
Still it is a simulation.

Honestly if I wanted a catch up/balancing option so that each car in each class would be doing the exact laptimes I would have played Need For Speed, not LFS.

I hope that's not were LFS is heading.

A worried paying member.

I can't think any reason whatsoever why the cars shouldn't be balanced. In GPL the differences weren't just about performance.

I think it is great that the RB4s and XRTs finally get a chance to fight against the FXO, or the FXR&XRR get a chance against FZR. It makes the races better, it makes the XRT and RB4 worth driving. I just did few races with the GTRs and it was awesome how the XRR&FXR were competitive against FZR, which used to be total overkill for the class. Supporting totally unbalanced system, like you liked it to be, just makes races more dull and less surprizing.
---

Few suggestions:
- stat for LFSworld for jump starts: total starts / jump starts
- with more people on the server, the "cant join/can't leave pits/can't X" - "player connecting etc." can be bigger problem than it is now ;)
- I noticed that it is possible to move little without getting any jump start. By doing this the "handbrake" is turned off and the car is free to roll up/downhill. Doesn't this give slightly better start because the "handbrake" is off instead of being on on normal start? Hard to test ;)
- reaction time shown on screen? (average reaction time lfsworld stat, although a bit problematic :))

Great stuff! :thumb:

[dawesdust_12]

I think reaction time would be a fun stat to see.

Also, does false starts work on the drag strip?

*off to test*

Also, the 100kg ballast I think makes the FZR seem easier to drive than it did before, and the RB4 is still my favourite TBO car, and atleast has a chance.

[Barn]

I was really surprised after trying the diff preload. It really helps the cars behave more like they should on and off the throttle... and I think alot of people are just overlooking it because they don't know what it does.

hmmz, i've just done 80 laps bl2 rally with xfg,trying different preload settings!

makes no difference what's so ever on xfg,got same lap times,as i do with locked diff,no matter what i set the preload to:shrug: :shrug:

[dawesdust_12]

I think you'd notice it more in a RWD car.

[Blowtus]

Fantastic sounding patch, thank you!
28 racers, false starts, pre-load... woohoo :D

[detail]

Scawen, a request from a Russian host admin: in connections list, please, make kick/ban buttons visible for admins even when /vote=no. Also in demo ban by IP is necessary.

[nesrulz]

Thanks for W9! :wow:
:headbang:

[SchneeFee]

Falsstarts!
28 Players!
48 Connections!

:woohoo:

[LFSn00b]

I love the false start system. Please keep it, and the restrictions.

So i had fun with 15 AIs in the track, oh boy what a crash. :D

[zockmachine]

i think the start lights are still shown almost at the same time each race... there should be a period of maybe 1-3 seconds until the green lights appear

[Not Sure]

False starts :thumb:

Because this patch is aimed at multiplayer stuff, is there any plans to do improve the visual car movement while online? I mean that "jerky" movement, well everyone probably knows what I mean. As far as I know currently there is no "precalculation" (or whatever that is) and that's why the other cars moves not-so-smoothly looking while online and in multiplayer replays. Improving this would make MP replays more enjoyable to watch, while playing that jerky movement doesn't really matter at all.

while playing the jerky movement causes cars to go flying into walls on light contact. i would like to see some kind of smoothing here

great patch, i like the added realism!

[sil3ntwar]

Could someone explain how pre load works in LFS?

[danowat]

WOW what a patch :)

[Raimyz666]

OMG :thumbsup: I LOVE that:

" Car is no longer held at start line - false starts possible " :nod:

Thats Really Great :thumb:

[keiran]

Scawen, a request from a Russian host admin: in connections list, please, make kick/ban buttons visible for admins even when /vote=no. Also in demo ban by IP is necessary.

Banning players on the demo is already by IP as far as I know...


Honestly if I wanted a catch up/balancing option so that each car in each class would be doing the exact laptimes I would have played Need For Speed, not LFS.

I hope that's not were LFS is heading.

A worried paying member.

Can't understand why you've put `catch up option` in the equation as it's nothing like that. Catch up is when the cars behind the leaders get extra performance to what the leader has.

The idea of balancing isn't to bring each car in class to the exact same laptimes but to make each one closer. Thus at different tracks a certain car might have the advantage over the other etc. If you wanted to get all the cars the same laptimes they'd have to be balanced for every combo.

The reason for this is to stop the one always dominating car in every class.

[Vykos69]

i think the start lights are still shown almost at the same time each race... there should be a period of maybe 1-3 seconds until the green lights appear

or even more. 2-5 or 2-7 seconds, so it's more obvious.

[Hoellsen]

Honestly if I wanted a catch up/balancing option so that each car in each class would be doing the exact laptimes

Rest assured that is not what is intended. Be aware that in GPL you have 7 different cars, iirc, which are over the board somewhat close. Of course the Cooper can't really stand up to the Lotus, but the Eagle and Ferrari are much closer to the Lotus than the Cooper or BRM. Also, in GPL you can make use of car characteristics on different tracks. Lotus vs. Eagle on Monza or Spa is a close match, in Monaco that is a different story. There you would maybe choose the Brabham.

Now, in LFS we have a totally different situation. In TBO and GTR one car is dominating on each track AND there is only three cars in the classes. So the variation is much less than in GPL.

A perfect situation imho would be if the three different cars in a class would be balanced in a way that there is a decent medium car which can compete on most tracks, but does not dominate and the two other cars are better on tracks suiting their characteristics. So you could look at a championship's schedule, decide which tracks are your strength and which car you can drive the best and make your choice accordingly instead of being forced to choose the one dominant car.

Also, with the massive difference between the cars and the little choice, league administrators cannot assign cars to different strength drivers as in GPL since there is too little variation. Balancing is needed. It would be good for the game as long as it will not lead to spec racing, which I am sure it will not.

[Chaos]

a big THANK YOU fot the patch Scawen! its really great ;)

or even more. 2-5 or 2-7 seconds, so it's more obvious.
2 - 5 is according to FIA rules...

[wark]

The voluntary air restriction is great. :thumbsup:

One thing though, the MRT5 is already intake-restricted. Should this now be somehow indicated? Or can it be that it is an "involuntary" air restriction?

The Formula SAE\sR rules require the use of a 20 mm intake restrictor.

What I'm getting at, since the extra restriction is now adjustable: in LFS the MRT5 is at 64 horsepower with 0% restriction, when in actuality it (the real MRT5) has 64 horsepower @ >0% restriction.

I 'suggest' that it should either be able to go no lower than "x%" restriction, or that it should be able to go to 0%, while the default setups remain @ x% restriction.

Only problem is I'm not sure what "x" is, however I distinctly remember reading (and I'm sure you could ask them to make sure) that the MRT5 had upwards of 80 horsepower unrestricted.

[kiss me]

again, people this is a test patch! this shouldnt be bug free :D
i'm sure scawen is working on the improvements but just needed some testers :)

[tomylee]

Great patch :thumb:

I found a little bug. I was racing with XFR and with F12 it did say that I need 1% per lap. I did put in 6% and after doing 5 laps just after crossing the finish line I did have 0.3% fuel (but it still said that I need 1% per lap). This was not just a one time thing, it is allways.

Please do this soon:
An option to preset different controler options (for G25)!!!!!!!!

[Jakg]

LFS rounds, it from the "exact figure" which could be 1.04999999999999999999%, and after 5 laps those 0.49999 add up to about 0.296666 odd, which would round to 0.3%

imo LFS should always round UP to make sure this doesn't happen

[tomylee]

If so it really shoud round up.
But the versions before it never did that, I did have this the first time with the W9.

[joen]

using screamy big bold text isn't likely to get what you want, it comes across really pushy.

[Jakg]

If so it really shoud round up.
But the versions before it never did that, I did have this the first time with the W9.what? LFS has ALWAYS done this afaik

[tomylee]

using screamy big bold text isn't likely to get what you want, it comes across really pushy.
I know but it is really important more then graphic changes of SO or the GTRs :tilt:

[tomylee]

what? LFS has ALWAYS done this afaik
thats strange. I never had a problem with my fuel, mostly I did have what I was expecting to have at the end or even more....

[joen]

I know but it is really important more then graphic changes of SO or the GTRs :tilt:

Well, that's a personal opinion, you can't speak for anybody than yourself. I am really looking forward to the interior updates, so I would like to see those sooner. Besides that, graphical updates are more Eric's work, so him working on graphic updates won't slow down any work Scawen has to do on for instance controller options.
My point being, let the devs decide what they'll be working on first. They know what has to be done.

[tomylee]

Some input what user like to see won't hurt and I guess that the most of the G25 users would love to see that option cause it's a damn work to change the shifting.

[narcis]

Great patch, thanks for that! :).

A little idea: for leagues it would be fantastic that we could know if an HLVC lap has been done with voluntary restriction (in this moment I don' know if the restrictions are available in HLVC mode, but this idea thinks so).
It can be very useful for the inscriptions in a league for example, in order to know if an HLVC is "valid" inside the rules of this league.

So, the idea is to add new data values in the HLVC times script: the voluntary restrictions (x Kg of weight and % of air restriction).

Sorry for my english and I hope you can understand what I mean with this proposition :P.

[Christofire]

LFS rounds, it from the "exact figure" which could be 1.04999999999999999999%, and after 5 laps those 0.49999 add up to about 0.296666 odd, which would round to 0.3%

imo LFS should always round UP to make sure this doesn't happen

I don't think it should.

Getting the right amount of fuel is a bit of an art, and it's all part of the setup process. If you're finding that the fuel runs out a bit too soon, put more in!

LFS should round appropriately, not err on the side of caution and distort the figures because you can't be bothered to to put the setup time in. :thumb:

[Scottie]

a big THANK YOU fot the patch Scawen! its really great ;)


2 - 5 is according to FIA rules...


Yup, i'd like to see a larger and more unpredictable pause

[Breizh]

I don't mean to add clutter to the thread, but -

Narcis, can't you look at the handicaps used in an .spr with F11?

[Dalek0220]

*kisses feet* OMFG! THIS IS BRILL! KEEP THIS UP OR I WILL EXTERMINATE YOU!!!

[ZolArT]

Banning players on the demo is already by IP as far as I know....

WHAT??? HOW??????????????

[tomylee]

I don't mean to add clutter to the thread, but -

Narcis, can't you look at the handicaps used in an .spr with F11?
yes

BTW: since the W patch (I think) I have allways a kinda metal clank in the back. Whats that?

[Bladerunner]

Some input what user like to see won't hurt and I guess that the most of the G25 users would love to see that option cause it's a damn work to change the shifting.


I can help there!

go to top of page, hit 'search' and voila! http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=382898#post382898


If its too much work, then either set up a script, or do like I have done...set up two profiles in LFS...exactly the same apart from the name...change it to Tomylee1 and Tomylee2 for example, set one up for shifter and the other for paddles...where's the hard work??


btw, W9 rox so far..I can s=actually drive the FZ5 now without spinning every 2 seconds :)

[Scawen]

Honestly if I wanted a catch up/balancing option so that each car in each class would be doing the exact laptimes I would have played Need For Speed, not LFS.

I hope that's not were LFS is heading.

A worried paying member.
Don't be worried. As some others have answered already, it's not about that kind of laptime balancing. It's impossible to balance exactly a FWD, RWD and a AWD car. You can see we aren't trying to do something like that, and that's why the balancing is global and not track specific. The problem was that the FXO was seconds ahead on every track - so if you liked RWD you would lose to an FXO, guaranteed, no matter where you raced! And that's not how we wanted it. Now one car or another has strengths and weaknesses at different tracks.

Scawen, a request from a Russian host admin: in connections list, please, make kick/ban buttons visible for admins even when /vote=no. Also in demo ban by IP is necessary.Kick and ban buttons request is good, and noted. Demo bans are already by IP - they can change player name any time and don't have a user name, so IP is the only way.

Please do this soon:
An option to preset different controler options (for G25)!!!!!!!!
No need to shout, it's annoying and usually makes me delay things, even if they were at the top of my list - though in this case it is not, because that is already done. Anyway if you would read about the script system in your commands.txt, you would find that you can make a script to assign controls howveer you want. So you could make a script C1.lfs and C2.lfs, then run them by typing //C1.lfs or /run C1.lfs ... so it's already done, just do some research.

[Breizh]

Metal clank in the back of what? The gear shift sound?

There's way too much clutter in this thread.

[GeForz]

Please do this soon:
An option to preset different controler options (for G25)!!!!!!!!

I'll send you my config over PM ;)

[tomylee]

Sorry for that. I didn't see that even that I was searching for it and others had the same problem. But it's a several week's ago, maybe cause of that :shrug:

btw, ehen you say big letters is shouting, it's you interpretation :smileypul :nod:


I'll send you my config over PM
thx mate :)

[tomylee]

Metal clank in the back of what? The gear shift sound?

There's way too much clutter in this thread.
I don't know from what. It's when you accelerate. It's not loud but you still can hear it. I don't know how to explain it. Maybe someone noticed it and knows what it is.

Edit:
It's just fore these cars: GTR class and the XFR.

[RSchumacher]

man this patch is absolutely amazing ! 28 racers makes the races much cooler, and I have no fps-loss at all. Great, thanks for the great patch, keep on it.

[Mike85]

But Scawen why should we make a script for different controls? Not everyone here is a programmer. He wanted it from the menu of the game, not in the script. IMO.

Anyways, good progress, congratulations, it seems you put in quite alot of stuff.

[(-Mark-)]

Well, this has got my to start up LFS xD

[tomylee]

But Scawen why should we make a script for different controls? Not everyone here is a programmer. He wanted it from the menu of the game, not in the script. IMO.

Anyways, good progress, congratulations, it seems you put in quite alot of stuff.
to set up the script is quit easy, thats OK

there are just too many thinks you can do over backdoors in LFS that it is hard to keep up to date. to know all possibilities is like a full time job :schwitz:

[PLAYLIFE]

man this patch is absolutely amazing ! 28 racers makes the races much cooler, and I have no fps-loss at all. Great, thanks for the great patch, keep on it.

In single player my FPS drops significantly with additional cars. Luckily, my new system components are arriving next week.


So I'm thinking, wouldn't it be better to allow also 28 racers in Single player. So if your system doesn't cut it, you use less AI cars. But for those of us who have just spent quite a lot of money to get a better system we should also be able to utilize it at maximum (please make more AI cars available in Single player). :)

[AndroidXP]

Sorry for being OT, I just want to answer the "what does preload do" questions to my best knowledge.

A clutch pack differential tries to equalize the torque acting on both wheels to a certain percentage. For example, if the left wheel is on the ground and the right one in the air, then an open diff would just spin the one in the air, thus providing 100% torque to the freely spinning wheel (E: Actually this is wrong, as soon as a wheel spins it doesn't apply any torque). A locked diff would always provide a 50/50 split and a clutch pack is inbetween.

Lets say we have an input torque of 400Nm - left wheel on ground, right in the air. Torque applied to wheels as follows:

Locked diff - L: 200Nm R: 200Nm
Open diff - L: 0Nm R: 400Nm (E: Actually not 400, but almost 0Nm)
Clutch pack diff @ 50% - L: 100Nm R: 300Nm
Clutch pack diff @ 75% - L: 150Nm R: 250Nm
Now, in order for the clutch pack LSD to provide a percentage of locking, the amount of pressure on the clutch plates in the differential must be proportional to the input torque, which means the plates have to be pressed together harder the higher the input torque is. In reality this is defined/archived by the ramp angles used in the differential - the steeper the angle the more the clutch plates are pressed together when torque is applied. You also have two ramp angles to play with, one for each direction of torque (power/coast lock).

If we understand this, we can also see that when no input torque is applied, there is also no locking of the clutch pack diff, because 50% locking of 0Nm torque is still 0Nm. This is where preload comes into play. It provides a minimum amount of pressure on the clutch plates, so that even with no input torque, there's always a minimum amount of locking applied.

Another short example with a 50% locking clutch pack diff with 150Nm preload, gradually decreasing the input torque:

Input tq, resistance tq by clutch, left wheel, right wheel, real % of locking
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Input: 400Nm, Res: 200Nm, L: 100Nm, R: 300Nm, Lock: 50%
Input: 350Nm, Res: 175Nm, L: 88Nm, R: 262Nm, Lock: 50%
Input: 300Nm, Res: 150Nm, L: 75Nm, R: 225Nm, Lock: 50%
Input: 250Nm, Res: 150Nm, L: 75Nm, R: 175Nm, Lock: 60%
Input: 200Nm, Res: 150Nm, L: 75Nm, R: 125Nm, Lock: 75%
Input: 150Nm, Res: 150Nm, L: 75Nm, R: 75Nm, Lock: 100%
Input: 100Nm, Res: 100Nm, L: 50Nm, R: 50Nm, Lock: 100%
I hope I didn't make any errors, and that it's more clear for you guys now :)

E: Well, I did make errors, but apparently the general idea is still correct (at least no one pointed out any errors yet).

E2: Seems like the tables are wrong too. Better wait for someone who really understands all this stuff :D

[matze54564]

The small map stopped to rotate, thats absolutely great! I love it!

Reset cars in online-games should be complete disabled.
use the reset buttons will now repair the car also in online games, this option is not needed and should be removed.

[al heeley]

Android, thanks for the explanation, but what does it actually mean?
When you drive with very low preload compared to very high? Can it be explained in terms of how the car feels or handles?

[Barn]

wow,nice description,thankyou :)

[faster111]

why is there only showing w9 hosts? in the list of servers.

[Kid222]

The small map stopped to rotate, thats absolutely great! I love it!
It's optional, you can set rotating on in options.

[tomylee]

why is there only showing w9 hosts? in the list of servers.
cause you can't connect to older servers. it's incompatible

[faster111]

cause you can't connect to older servers. it's incompatible oh right thanks.

[matze54564]

It's optional, you can set rotating on in options.
but my suggestion was to stop the rotating, i found the setup option, thats right so. Without map turning is it more easy for me, because i know then that i´m in south or west and look fast at the right place in the small map. When the map is turning is this horrible for me.

[AndroidXP]

Android, thanks for the explanation, but what does it actually mean?Ha! Well, that's a good question, and I can't give a definite answer to it, only guesses.

Generally speaking, it prevents the diff from going fully open on the transition between power and coasting (throttle on/off). From a car handling point of view, well no preload is as if you're driving with patch W, so for the old car behaviour set it to 0Nm. With preload it should for example battle the behaviour of one wheel locking up easily under braking, and a few quick test laps with the XFR seem to confirm that. Previously using a clutch pack diff meant that it was very easy to lock up one wheel under heavy braking, causing flatspots all the time (I guess it also showed as sudden RPM drops you get with a LSD under braking). With a certain amount of preload set, this seems to be greatly reduced. However, using too much preload will probably be like you're driving a locked diff, throwing away any handling advantages of the clutch pack diff provides. Again, this is only a guess, real differences will show once we get some track time down :shrug:

but my suggestion was to stop the rotatingErr... before patch W9 the map NEVER rotated. The rotating is a new feature.

[Jonas8431]

Is still allowed just 16 drivers on SO Spring1?

[tomylee]

Err... before patch W9 the map NEVER rotated. The rotating is a new feature.:scratchch

[faster111]

Is still allowed just 16 drivers on SO Spring1? that be a bug then.

[Kid222]

Err... before patch W9 the map NEVER rotated. The rotating is a new feature.
Really? My minimap is rotating since i play LFS (10/2005)

[matze54564]

Err... before patch W9 the map NEVER rotated. The rotating is a new feature.
No, thats not true. The still standing map (only triangles rotate and move) is a new feature. Now can everybody set how he love it. Thats really great Somebody like the rotating, and somebody don´t like it.

[XsX!]

Really? My minimap is rotating since i play LFS (10/2005)

sorry, but i really doubt that.
btw, very nice addition on rotating map. everything seems to work fine for now. going to do other testing..:thumb:

[AndroidXP]

Haha, I just tested in an older version and... what the Christ, I never noticed that :D :doh:

[Kid222]

Haha, I just tested in an older version and... what the Christ, I never noticed that :D :doh:
Hehe :razz:

[matze54564]

thats great.

[Jakg]

that be a bug then.no, i think the devs used a little sense and realised it would be MAYHEM, plus the grid at SO3 would be MILES long with 28 cars, i doubt they'd even fit on the grid!

[faster111]

no, i think the devs used a little sense and realised it would be MAYHEM, plus the grid at SO3 would be MILES long with 28 cars, i doubt they'd even fit on the grid! yeah it would be mayhem can't wait for a full grid of 47 racers.

[St4Lk3R]

that be a bug then.

no. On SO Sprint 1 & 2, as well as on AS Cadet, the number of cars in race is restricted to 16 automatically because these tracks are simply too short for a higher amount of cars.

[keithano]

yeah it would be mayhem can't wait for a full grid of 47 racers.

48 connections, but maximum is 28 racers

[faster111]

48 connections, but maximum is 28 racers oh so 28 racers oh man thats so going be ace.

[jegorchangai]

yeah it would be mayhem can't wait for a full grid of 47 racers.
There is a max of 28 racers, the 47 number is with spectators added.

[rediske]

Really? My minimap is rotating since i play LFS (10/2005)

So is mine! And I checked down to LFS 0.04Q and it rotated since then :nod:

[garph]

Go read the update list at the start of this thread faster, slowly, cause you clearly haven't!

[Dunmer]

Hi,

I'm running test patch W9 and all of a sudden my LFS crashed.
I was just messing around and I don't think I did something extreme or special. I'm also not able to duplicate the crash, but I think this (see attachment) is what you are looking for, if not please let me know.

Dunmer

[Tege]

I hope I didn't make any errors, and that it's more clear for you guys now :)
You made one big one (typical mistake though). On open diff torque is the same for both wheel in all situations.

[AndroidXP]

:really: Please explain...

Anyhow, I hope at least the general gist is correct, as I just looked at a wikipedia article to figure out the workings of a clutch pack diff, so I can take a guess at what preload does. Correct usage of scientific terms isn't my strong point either :shy:. I'm also not sure if the clutch pack diff can ever *really* reach 100% locking, so the second example might be somewhat off. I think Ben, or someone equally knowledgeable, will correct it soon enough. :)

[russraine]

I've not tested the patch myself... however I feel the false start system is good, but, it should give the driver a drive through penalty rather than a spectate or disquali. Also, untested, but in F1 a driver has to drive through within 3 laps of getting the penalty, this too should be in LFS (if it isn't already).

Good work.

[AndroidXP]

Spectate and DQ are only applied if you move more than 4 metres before green light, in order to prevent wrecking. The usual action for false start is drive through + time penalty.

[joen]

I've not tested the patch myself... however I feel the false start system is good, but, it should give the driver a drive through penalty rather than a spectate or disquali. Also, untested, but in F1 a driver has to drive through within 3 laps of getting the penalty, this too should be in LFS (if it isn't already).

Good work.

The driver is only forced to spectate if it's an intentional false start. When you move within reasonal boundaries you receive a drivethrough.

edit: darn, late again.

[Warper]

No, the global restrictions are meant mainly as a correction for what we can't get exactly right during beta testing.



Sorry scawen to be a pettifogger but since when are we in beta phase? :)

Greets

[AndroidXP]

"Beta" testing of the patch.
Basically we're beta testing the test-patches, before they get released as official patch. However, releasing an official, beta-tested patch does not mean LFS itself is out of alpha stage ;)

[MillerM]

False starts are very nice...

Clutch preload is great!

It really does make the cars handle more like real cars. Transfers like throttle to brake or even throttle off/on don't upset the cars balance so much anymore!

After optimizing the cars setup the handling of LFS's cars should be even better. :thumb:

(Never would have dreamt all this would come so quick! Great work!)

[XsX!]

dunno if this is happening from some patches, but today i noticed that the string "Rubber Dark" in the config resets itself everytime i start the game. i used that to make the rubber lay a bit darker, to make the tracks more "used". Just asking if the reset is intentional.
Speaking of that, i was thinking if its possible to store the skidmarks layed down during a race to a saved buffer, and reuse that when you open the track another time.
Having lots of fun with false starts and no reset :)

[sinbad]

Ok, so handicaps are not going to be track specific. I see the logic behind it, good for people doing seasons on lots of circuits. The cars will, however, be genuinely balanced on a small number of tracks. Any track where the RB4 was competitive before will now be RB4 dominated. So it's not as much help for the majority of racers who just pick-up and play, same problem, different cars.

Still, FXO seems slower overall, which was the main objective in TBO I suppose.

[AndroidXP]

The only tracks where RB4 dominated anything were the rallycross ones, which is hardly a surprise. I can not recall any other track where the RB4 was a serious threat to the FXO. Anyhow, if there are some and you want balance there, you can still add extra weights to the RB4.

[a n d 1]

People! Why dont u get it that this is a testpatch forum and u should only post something if u found a bug or have a crash? This thread is just getting way to big.

my first cent and now the second...
I have a very strange bug and couldnt find a post about this (maybe because the thread is full of ****)!

So when i start a Qualification i start in the Pits, that is actually fine but I have a message (False Start - sent to Spec).

best regards

[sinbad]

The only tracks where RB4 dominated anything were the rallycross ones, which is hardly a surprise. I can not recall any other track where the RB4 was a serious threat to the FXO. Anyhow, if there are some and you want balance there, you can still add extra weights to the RB4.

I can add weight to my RB4, how do I add weight to yours? :)

Aston cadet springs to mind. If FXO is being slowed to make GTT competitive, and GTT being slowed to make RB4 competitive on a fairly average track like Aston GP or KYO Long, then the advantage RB4 has over GTT at the moment at AS1 (outright speed judged by Hotlap WRs) will grow significantly. (Surely?).
I'll wait and see how it plays out, just a thought.

[XCNuse]

I can add weight to my RB4, how do I add weight to yours? :)
can't yet, but i won't be surprised at all once scawen sets the ability for servers to automatically limit cars after winning a last race

and the cool thing about this (doing it automatically), times can be compared, and say if someone got a 1:00.00 laptime, and the second place man got 1:20.00 for a laptime, LFS can calculate how much ballasts or intake limiting should be placed on the winning car, so that the next race the 'winner' can do at best a 1:15.00 or something like such

what i do NOT want scawen to forget though, is that if he does figure out a way to do this, is that at the beginning of the next race, a pop up should come up saying " 'blah' weight has been added, and 'blah' intake restriction "
or something like that

[axus]

I was just on an international server with a full grid and 40+ connected (ping 340ms from here, and I'm on a 384kbps line) and I must say, a big thumbs up! Whatever's been done has gone a long way into reducing jitter! I've just got two more suggestions to reduce it further (maybe, assuming they're feasible and they've not already been done, :p) - perhaps, rather than just sending a value for the position of the steering wheel, include a rate of rotation in the packet, this might help smooth out jitter due to violent wheel movements. Also, would it be feasible to store an approximated brake point for each corner (maybe for each driver in the field too, if necessary) and attempt to reduce the jump caused by a driver stepping on the brakes in a laggy situation? If it would help deal with such issues, I could maybe save a few replays from servers at these pings? :)

[felplacerad]

This was probably a one off, but I'll post it here any way:

Fired up W9 for the first time and joined a crowded server just to have a look. Connected fine, and was able to watch the final lap of the race (downloading skins at the time, obviously) but was suddenly disconnected from the server:

> FLP/m FEL : JOOS - COL SET CAR WHL ENG RES
Initial synchronisation failed

A player is disconnecting

I've seen the "A player is disconnecting" message before, but only when connecting. This time I recieved the message after being disconnected from a server.

[MARSH2a]

Is it possible to copy the current W installation and upgrade one copy to W9 so I can use either?

[garph]

Is it possible to copy the current W installation and upgrade one copy to W9 so I can use either?
Yes, that's what I've done.

[KMSpeed]

Don't be worried. As some others have answered already, it's not about that kind of laptime balancing. It's impossible to balance exactly a FWD, RWD and a AWD car. You can see we aren't trying to do something like that, and that's why the balancing is global and not track specific. The problem was that the FXO was seconds ahead on every track - so if you liked RWD you would lose to an FXO, guaranteed, no matter where you raced! And that's not how we wanted it. Now one car or another has strengths and weaknesses at different tracks.


These are Scawen's thoughts about balancing and I totally agree with him.
Dynamically or track specific changed handicaps is a wrong idea imo

[Urban_Eagle1]

I like the sound of this new patch but, it seems it has bugs in it from what ive read, and i have a question about the false start thingy. If its a down/up hill start, and ur using a keyboard, would once ur on the grid u get a false start or do you start in N, and just stand still like u do in the pits and then once the lights go out turn green u drop it into first? just my question, and i think somewhere i read, that u can only go into V9 servers with this patch, no backwards compatabilitys is that right? Anyway thank you in advance.

[duke_toaster]

I like the sound of this new patch but, it seems it has bugs in it from what ive read, and i have a question about the false start thingy. If its a down/up hill start, and ur using a keyboard, would once ur on the grid u get a false start or do you start in N, and just stand still like u do in the pits and then once the lights go out turn green u drop it into first? just my question, and i think somewhere i read, that u can only go into V9 servers with this patch, no backwards compatabilitys is that right? Anyway thank you in advance.

You start of with Neutral engaged.

Keep the throttle wide open and stick it in to first when the lights go green or stick it in first, depress the clutch and stomp on the loud pedal (let go of the clutch when the lights go green). Your choice.

Or, to be really uncompetitive in a turbo car, put it in first and only use the throttle when the lights go green :D

W9 isn't backwards compatible due to the clutch changes and other 1337 features. Copy your LFS install and patch the copy :)

[joen]

I like the sound of this new patch but, it seems it has bugs in it from what ive read
You could just make a copy of your LFS folder, and install the patch on that one. That way you can always check out the new stuff while keeping your other install "safe" That's what I always do anyway :)

[matze54564]

@ the server 500 Servers W9 was some cars sent to spectate without starting to early. my car was really standing absolutely still and i got during parking at start-position a start failure-penalty (was sent to spectate)
This happened 3 times. Then was i banned there, i think because i was spamming the glitch 4 times.

[ATC Quicksilver]

I've found no bugs so far, its great fun with a full server and the jump starts rock. I put my handbrake on to make sure my car doesn't roll because I have autoclutch.

Anyway the servers are full of people who can't drive atm, hopefully when the main patch is out they will return to their drift servers and stop ruining the races. :thumb:

[matze54564]

I've found no bugs so far

I will be really thankful if somebody from 500servers.com can remove me from the ban-list of

"500 Servers W9"
best regards

[U4IK ST8]

You could just make a copy of your LFS folder, and install the patch on that one. That way you can always check out the new stuff while keeping your other install "safe" That's what I always do anyway :)
That's what I have just done. I wasn't to sure about installing it but I asked a couple of questions in the STCC thread and I decided to copy the whole LFS folder and upgrade the copy.:D

Had a quick race on a W9 server(500Servers) and it looks like LFS is getting more realistic with every patch that comes out. I was waiting to be sent to spectate for false start but never was. No problems so far for me.:D

Great work.:nod: :thumbsup:

[JasonJ]

Just posting a recording of 7 people getting spectated on the start line for false start. You can see them respawn and get auto-spectated many times. The chat filled up with heaps of false start messages, although the false-start messages do not get saved on the replay. Sorry I didnt know this.

You can see full grid at the beginning of the replay. Then as as the lights change etc, you can see the cars disappearing and re-appearing from false starts. They dont appear to be taking off the line, or is it possible I lagged and did not see them move? They must have been clicking re-join to do all this re-spawning. As the lights go green you can see 7 cars missing. I got spectated and accused of false-start on the chat. I know I didn't do a false start. Most rejoined after waitning the 12 seconds in the pit.
28567 2.25MB replay

Server was called 500 Servers W9 (AS2 config). There were like 45 connected and a full grid. The rest of the time I did not notice any problems. It was ace fun. This is the same server mentioned in the last 4-5 posts. Some were not there when this one mass-false-start happened in the trouble free 1 & 1/2 hours I was there. I dont think the server was to blame - just the fact there was like nearly 50 people there might have made something go boo boo.

So smooth :thumb: still 60fps into T1 on my old 9800proRadeon - Amazing

[axus]

I don't recall exactly but I think there was some rule in Formula 1 with regards to the car having to move only 0.1s after the green lights because anything less than that would mean that you were expecting green rather than reacting to it... is this how it has been implemented in LFS or is it if you move after green?

[ATC Quicksilver]

It might be that your rolling forward a tiny amount without knowing, to be safe I apply the handbrake until the lights come on

[franky500]

i think that the Glitch has something to do with the accelerator. as in if you are in neutral and then accelorate it thinks your car is moving...

@Matze. the ban comes off tomorrow. it was put on because you would not listen to the requests to stop annoying me with questions about CLC stuff and the short bit of spam you did... but this thread is not the place for this discussion so please do not reply about the ban here.

[axus]

It might be that your rolling forward a tiny amount without knowing, to be safe I apply the handbrake until the lights come on

The handbrake is applied automatically until you shift into 1st anyway.

[ATC Quicksilver]

Ah I didn't know that, thats good then...i do it anyway because i am paranoid lol :D

[Ondrejko]

Single player and demo races now up to 16 cars

does it mean 16 cars in race + 1 spectator?
should i set 17 connections in setup.cfg?

[Zachary Zoomy]

jesus when did this patch comeout? it looks great! how does it play offline and online? is it worth downloading? and should I replace my Patch W with this one?

[St4Lk3R]

jesus when did this patch comeout? it looks great! how does it play offline and online? is it worth downloading? and should I replace my Patch W with this one?

You should not, because most leagues still run patch W and W9 is incompatible to W. Instead, create a copy of your LFS folder and install patch W9 into that copy. It is absolutely worth downloading it, plays great online and offline, multiplayer is much smoother again. Go get it :)

[KMSpeed]

please read the first post :shrug:

It's multiplayer incompatible with W, so just create a copy of your LFS folder and apply the patch there. Then you can have two independent LFS installations to do your testing.

[marcoschaefer]

joining in a standing grid during the start process will effect in a false start, like the quali thing.

[AndroidXP]

i think that the Glitch has something to do with the accelerator. as in if you are in neutral and then accelorate it thinks your car is moving...Can't confirm that, I made a point in staying in neutral and standing on the brake before lights come on, but I still got booted off for a false start, together with about 5-10 other people on a 22 car grid. :shrug:

[IcYX]

wtf????
I get new tyres when i reset my car...bug ??

[Becky Rose]

Thank you Scawen, some interesting things are in this one - and some more work for me :D

Has anyone been able to try out South City Sprint yet with more than 16 cars to see if it works?

[AndroidXP]

wtf????
I get new tyres when i reset my car...bug ??
No, please read the thread - Scawen has already answered that.

[geeman1]

Can't confirm that, I made a point in staying in neutral and standing on the brake before lights come on, but I still got booted off for a false start, together with about 5-10 other people on a 22 car grid. :shrug:I got booted for being in 1st, clutched and revving the engine. Normally you won't get booted for that. The bug is just random (atleast it seems like it).

[GeForz]

wtf????
I get new tyres when i reset my car...bug ??

No, it's not. If resetting is enabled you will be repaired and get new tires like in singleplayer now. Resetting should not be enabled on "real racing servers" because it's an arcade option ;)

[U4IK ST8]

Anyone else notice that the graphic for the rear left tire temperature is covered by the connection bars in the bottom left corner?(see attachment)

[keiran]

wtf????
I get new tyres when i reset my car...bug ??

No, it's a arcade feature. If reset is on you get a repaired car and new tyres like in single player. The servers I've been on have had reset disabled.

[XtremePsionic]

Scawen, I want to kiss you :D

JUST KIDDING, but I love false starts :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: