Suggestion, automatically download other players' car skins

[khtwo]

Because the skin in LFS is rather easy to make, now there are a lot of very
beautiful skins have been developed. However, it's not easy to show those
skins unless other players download the skins first. LFS is well known for
its real. Painting our lovely cars and show them to others is also a very
interesting thing in real world. So I suggest developers add this function into
LFS and make it more enjoyable.
For technique details, maybe it can be done like this. When a player enter
into the game or change to a non-standard skin in garage, it uploads the skin
to the server. Then the server can distribute the new skin to other players.
To avoid lag, server may control the transfer rate during the competition or,
more simple, only dustribute the new skins in the seconds just before the
next restart.
Thank you all developers for taking us a so good game.

[kel64]

This is already done if I am understanding you right? On LFS World, open up 'My Online Car Skins' and follow that. Any skin you upload and then use in game is automatically downloaded.

Oops, should have said, you must be S2 licensed :)

[Chaos]

that's already there... but only for S2 licensed racers...

[khtwo]

I see. That's great. So it's a limited function only for S2 license.
I have other questions.
1. If I have a S2 license, and I upload my skin. Will those demo license players
automatically download my skin?
2. If I play LFS in a LAN, will other players be able to see my skin?
Thanks for replying so quickly.

[Chaos]

1. No, this feature works only on S2 servers...
2. The feature only works online, howevrt if on a LAN, it's easy for everybody to put all their skins into one folder and then everybody downloads that folder into the skins_x...

[khtwo]

1. No, this feature works only on S2 servers...

Hey, why not let demo licensed players download skins? Painting may spend
money because the car owner want to show it out. But watching the skin
should be free because that's what the car owner has paid. :D

[Huru-aito]

Demo users have fun for free, no need to add features like that IMO :) It would only cause more traffic for the LFSW server..

Buy the license, it's worth it!

[Chaos]

Buy the license, it's worth it!
For me, the best 24 pounds spent for entertainment in my life ...

[khtwo]

For sure, I will buy the license. LFS is good. For only 2 days, I begin to love it.
But I have several friends who have only demo license. It's impossible to send
all of them my skin and ask them to install it. :)
And considering the way it works, it's possible to download those skins from
a web server rather than LFSW servers. So it might avoid influencing the traffic
of the LFSW server.

[Gunn]

The Live For Speed demo is probably the best example of a demonstration version that you will find available for any game. If any more features are included it would likely work to prevent some demo racers from buying a license. The unlicensed racer in Live For Speed is extremely well catered-for already in my opinion. I want demo racers to crave S2 features, that is a good thing for them to be missing out on things they want. They have already tried the most awesome race sim demo the next logical step involves buying a license and joining the greater community.

[al heeley]

But I have several friends who have only demo license. It's impossible to send all of them my skin and ask them to install it.
Of course it isn't! When we only had the S1 version, we all ended up with megabytes of othe peoples skins on our hard drives; those from friends and teammates and skins we admired.
Maybe get your friends to see your full s2 then they will also want to buy their own licence!

[khtwo]

Of course it isn't! When we only had the S1 version, we all ended up with megabytes of othe peoples skins on our hard drives; those from friends and teammates and skins we admired.
Maybe get your friends to see your full s2 then they will also want to buy their own licence!

I admit that LFS is a very good game and I love it very much. But I'm not sure
if everybody loves it just like you and me. Someone may just want to play for
several days, maybe they will love it, maybe they will not. However, I think
being able to show the skin to everybody (include S2 licensed players and
demo players) should be a great interest for every player.
As I said before, being able to show skin off and being able to see others' skin
are different things. I think limiting demo players on preventing them seeing
others' skins is not wise. This mechanism actually limits the function of S2
licensed players. Think about it from another point of view.

[khtwo]

The Live For Speed demo is probably the best example of a demonstration version that you will find available for any game. If any more features are included it would likely work to prevent some demo racers from buying a license. The unlicensed racer in Live For Speed is extremely well catered-for already in my opinion. I want demo racers to crave S2 features, that is a good thing for them to be missing out on things they want. They have already tried the most awesome race sim demo the next logical step involves buying a license and joining the greater community.

Some addons. :) Guess who is more excited, the player who is able to see other
skins, or the player who is able to show his own skins to everybody? We see a
lot of great skins and car pictures from internet every day. What everybody
want to do is showing his own style on the net in the game. Know what I mean?
:D

[Chaos]

As I said before, being able to show skin off and being able to see others' skin
are different things. I think limiting demo players on preventing them seeing
others' skins is not wise. This mechanism actually limits the function of S2
licensed players. Think about it from another point of view.
Well for 3 years since the first demo, everybody had to put his skin somewhere for others to download and we had to live with that... I see no reason why demo racers should not...

[khtwo]

Well for 3 years since the first demo, everybody had to put his skin somewhere for others to download and we had to live with that... I see no reason why demo racers should not...

For sure you are a LFS lover, and you have experienced the pain of "putting
skin somewhere for others to download". Why do we S2 licensed players
need to experience this pain like before when we want to show skins to demo
players? Furthermore, demo players normally are not LFS lovers, they
don't care if it needs to download others' skins.

[Beandip]

Demo racers pay nothing; they aren't owed anything. That's right. There's no requirement that LFS even offer a demo, or anything else (including this forum), for free. The devs have done so simply to attract new paying customers. And other services, such as LFSW, are provided to make sure the customers stick around for future releases, while spreading the word in the meantime.

I'm not a marketing expert (yet), but providing a service that costs money (hosting on LFSW, etc.) to non-paying customers simply so that they will have a better time without paying sounds stupid. Sure, the demo racers may attract more new demo racers, but would any of them ultimately pay who would not have paid anyway? This particular extra feature of S2 would no longer be included with the price, thus, essentially, raising the price of every other feature.

As long as the demo provides a tantalizing glimpse at what is in store with the real version, it is doing its job. The fact that one can see skins with the demo client should be good enough, no?

[RAYfighter]

I'm very surprised after reading all these replies. I perfectly understand what is he saying. khtwo is S2 licenced after few days of trying the demo (date of posts he had just 1st 2 days of an experience) - that is an answer to those who seem to be too excited about their full licence.
If S2 licenced racer comes on Demo server, wearing his LFSW skin, demo players immediatelly see his licence status since they already well know these few stock skins available. And he got such a cool skin, everybody here is talking about (because everybody would see it automatically). "Hey, can you see my new skin?" - asks demo player "You have to be S2 licenced to be able to upload skins at LFSWorld" replies licenced guy. "Ah I see... how much it is again? 24 pounds?" , "For me, the best 24 pounds spent for entertainment in my life ..." (thanks Chaos :thumb: )

Do you FINALLY understand it guys? How can it be preventing demo players from byuing the licence? My english really sucks, but what khtwo is saying sounds crystal clear to me.
:thumb:

[khtwo]

Thanks, RAYfighter! Clear and interesting expression. (Y)

Players expecting the game developers provide a better game is normal,
no matter if they are demo players or paid players. Please don't say something
like "demo players own nothing". At least, they legally own the demo version.
Please don't look down on demo players. Everybody was a demo player.
And sometimes the voice of demo players weights more than it of paid
players. The voice of "it's worth to buy it" from a demo player, or it from
a paid player, which one do you think sounds more beautiful to the game
provider?

Providing this service may increase some cost, but the cost is not that
much by applying some techniques, for example, allowing S2 licensed
players put their skins on any website and the program download skins
directly from that website. Furthermore, it acts as a free advertisement
on demo servers, and can attract more demo players to upgrade to full
licensed players. Why would a marketing expert avoid this?

[al heeley]

Valid points, but there's also the other side of the argument, that once having paid for the game, there may be not that much extra more added that people wonder if it was worth paying for. There has to be a reasonable and significant difference between the 'free' features and the paid ones for people to have justified the purchase value.

[khtwo]

Valid points, but there's also the other side of the argument, that once having paid for the game, there may be not that much extra more added that people wonder if it was worth paying for. There has to be a reasonable and significant difference between the 'free' features and the paid ones for people to have justified the purchase value.

And my suggestion will add the purchase value.

[al heeley]

I'm confused. Your suggestion was answered by post 3 in this thread. The function for sharing skins is already there, for s2 full players. How can adding this function to the demo increase the purchase value?

Apologies if I have misunderstood you.

[TagForce]

I'm confused. Your suggestion was answered by post 3 in this thread. The function for sharing skins is already there, for s2 full players. How can adding this function to the demo increase the purchase value?


Because demo players can then see all the great looking skins done by registered users, and get a glimpse of what they can do when they buy the product.
And it's not the sharing function... It's only the auto-download function. Demo users would be unable to UPLOAD skins, but would be able to DOWNLOAD them.
Now they see a couple of default skins in the demo and a load of white ones. Seeing the S2 Licensed skins being downloaded may actually push them enough to buy it.

[andylec]

And when a demo player then finds a skin he likes that's hosted on LFSW he can race on demo servers and others will see 'his' skin. As they'll be getting these skins automatically saved in their skins_x folder they won't even have to take much effort to find one. Granted they'd be restricted to skins that a registered S2 racer has already uploaded and not skins of their own design, but there's already a great choice of skins that demo players could use and get at least some of the benefit of the autodownload themselves.

Worth adding another feature to the demo? Only the devs can decide that.

[al heeley]

Seeing the S2 Licensed skins being downloaded may actually push them enough to buy it.
Agreed, but this is a purchasing incentive, it adds no value to the purchase.
If you were to add another car or two, and maybe BL and FE, then maybe some would never move from the demo to the full game as they'd be perfectly happy with the limited demo. D'ya see what I'm getting at?

[Beandip]

Players expecting the game developers provide a better game is normal,
no matter if they are demo players or paid players. Please don't say something
like "demo players own nothing". At least, they legally own the demo version.


By quoting "demo players own nothing," I presume you were referring to my post, since I don't see anything else very similar to that posted by anyone else. But read my post again. I said that demo players aren't owed anything. There is a difference.

You can expect whatever you want, but this isn't a communist regime. This is an international market. To get something, you must provide something of benefit (without this, there is no legal contract). Purchasing S2 is obvious: In return for paying 24 pounds, you get a license for the game. (Note: You DO NOT get to own the game. You get to own a license for one primary copy of it. The developers still own the intellectual property and the copyright.)

That said, demo players also do not own the demo. The demo is still the property the developers; they simply distribute licenses for the use of the software for free. The benefit you provide in return is the chance that you will pay to purchase the full version. It's advertising. It's not a contract. There are no legal obligations.

[khtwo]

For abuse other players' skins of demo players, devs can prevent it by
disallowing demo players save the skins to disk.

The purchase value is that you can show skins to everybody without have to
ask every demo player to download it. Considering the user group, the demo
player group is absolutely bigger than licensed player group. What now S2
license can do is give you the ability to show skins in a smaller group.

To: Beandip
Sorry for misunderstanding your meaning. It's true that demo players aren't
owed anything. But why would game devs provide good demo versions to
demo players? Attract them to buy it, for sure. In other words, the devs
are responsible to the market, and demo players are the potential market.
So it's not that simple by just saying "they aren't owed anything".

To answer whether demo players own the demo version game, one can just
think if the LFS devs can force those demo players to delete the copies of
the demo game from their harddisk.

[tailing]

Sorry but I don't agree that demo users should be allowed to automatically download skins from lfsw. I paid to be able to use this feature and in doing so have partially covered the bandwidth costs incurred by the developers. It's just not necessary.

[khtwo]

Hey, I'm speaking from a point of view of a S2 licensed user. Considering the
group of licensed players and demo players, absolutely the demo players
group is much bigger. What now S2 licensed users can do is just show
skins in a smaller group but can not do it in a bigger group. It's the benefit
of S2 players but not the demo players. To make it clearer, try to ask yourself
if you really want to prevent demo players from downloading your own skins? I
think most S2 licensed players will answer no. That's the starting point.

Paying for something good does not necessarily mean that demo version can
not have those things. Last year, we still have to pay for the features of
current S2 demo version. And think about the success of CS, it's the pleasure
of operating on net attract so many players.

For the bandwidth cost, only devs can decide if it's worth or not to spend
higher cost to catch more registrations.

[tailing]

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, I just don't see much reason to cater any further to demo users. I'm sure they make some pretty darn good skins themselves, I also think it's going to be a fairly rare situation where S2 licensed drivers are on demo servers. You might then say this negates the bandwidth issue but it also means there's not much point doing it in the first place.
The other important point to consider is if you log on to a demo server it's not connected to lfs world in the same way as S1 or S2 servers. No stats are logged and racers aren't logged either afaik, whether you own S2 or not your just another demo racer as far as lfsw, the server and other demo racers are concerned.

Anyway I'm sure the devs have seen your suggestion, if they feel there's some merit to it I'm sure they'll at least consider it :)

[Fiiu]

I was wondering, after reading all these messages, who would buy a game just to get/see the skins? Who will play the demo just because there would be these cool skins? How about the game itself, are demo racers really interested in the game? They, who like the game, will buy it for sure. If there were skins or just plain colored cars. The game, not the eye-candy. Right?

[RAYfighter]

By quoting "demo players own nothing," I presume you were referring to my post, since I don't see anything else very similar to that posted by anyone else. But read my post again. I said that demo players aren't owed anything. There is a difference.

You can expect whatever you want, but this isn't a communist regime. This is an international market. To get something, you must provide something of benefit (without this, there is no legal contract). Purchasing S2 is obvious: In return for paying 24 pounds, you get a license for the game. (Note: You DO NOT get to own the game. You get to own a license for one primary copy of it. The developers still own the intellectual property and the copyright.)

That said, demo players also do not own the demo. The demo is still the property the developers; they simply distribute licenses for the use of the software for free. The benefit you provide in return is the chance that you will pay to purchase the full version. It's advertising. It's not a contract. There are no legal obligations.


LOL what an explanation. So!?

Ok ok i'm quiet, maybe some yungsters find something new in that post... :smileypul

[Gunn]

This conversation has gone around more times than an FO8 at the Kyoto Ring.