Drift Tracks needed!!

[drift_apprentice]

If only there are at least 1 track purely designed for drifting... U sure can drift on current tracks, but they r not designed for drifting, what i mean is their layout is for grip racing.

A good drift track need few doglegs(mid speed chicanes) so u can link the drifts together. Also hi speed sweepers and hairpins. Corners should not be too far apart from each other. If u look at the drift section on Tsukuba or Sugo or any race tracks that offered a section for drifting, u will c what i mean -> corners that r close to each other, especially chicanes! The track width is not too narrow too, so u can do some hi speed drifts without easily hitting the walls.

[Gunn]

All of the tracks in LFS have suitable sections that can be linked quite easily already.

[masternick]

tho i would like to see a drift track based from a real one like nikko i know it's never going to happen:(

[tristancliffe]

The good drifters can manage. If you can't, just learn or try harder...

[Gabkicks]

yeah we've got some nice tracks and an autox :) i would like some mountain tarmac roads but oh well. :)

[xapexcivicx]

If only there are at least 1 track purely designed for drifting... U sure can drift on current tracks, but they r not designed for drifting, what i mean is their layout is for grip racing.

A good drift track need few doglegs(mid speed chicanes) so u can link the drifts together. Also hi speed sweepers and hairpins. Corners should not be too far apart from each other. If u look at the drift section on Tsukuba or Sugo or any race tracks that offered a section for drifting, u will c what i mean -> corners that r close to each other, especially chicanes! The track width is not too narrow too, so u can do some hi speed drifts without easily hitting the walls.
We have mid speed chiacnes.
We can link drifts together
High speed sweepers and hairpins? Yeah, got em.
Corners far apart? Nope. Fern bay club, have fun.
High speed drifts without hitting walls? South City? What?

Check. :shrug:

[boosterfire]

I think that a racing simulator is mainly "racing" and secondly "drifting". There's a good reason for this. I respect drifters, but I must say that drifting is kinda... not logical. You see... when you race a car, and I mean race, the goal is to keep it straight, you know... like not make smoke and turn everywhere... apparently it makes you faster. Drifter is like... all what you must not do with a car to be fast, which is why it's under "racing". LFS developpers have of goal to make the game feel the most realistic. Unfortunatly, it's not quite realistic now, which is why drifting is so easy.

p.s. Drifters usally hate me. Rednecks too...

EDIT: oh and by the way... I don't think you need a specific drifting track. People that do drift in RL drift on normal tracks or car parks, stuff like that. Still... you can ask Eric (not sure he will answer)... ask him if he wants to do one. Maybe he'll do so they can get more people in, which would be good indeed.

[Blowtus]

where's the 'most definately not' option? I don't vote in biased polls :)

[axus]

...Aston Cadet... Aston National (long straights, fair enough)... South City Sprint 2... Fern Bay Club (not very wide, but still managable)... what more do you need?

[speedfreak227]

i don't drift and it doesn't interest me at all, but i think it would be good to have a track with nice corners for the drifters.

i think it was the original need for speed undergraound that had drifting events. it was kinda fun to do.

if it improves the member base then i say go for it.:thumbsup:

speedfreak227

[[FuLLocK]JoK3R]

being a "LFS" drifter myself i dont really think we need "Drift Tracks", the tracks are fine as they are. Just look at things like D1GP, most of the awsome battles are done on race tracks. you want a drift track fernbay is as close as i think it should get :thumb:

[ajp71]

I think one dedicated drift track wouldn't go a miss as otherwise there's a risk we'll see new tracks with horrible flat slow linked constant radius harpins due to the pressure on the Devs to accomodate drifters (like they're playing around putting drift corners into Snetterton).

[hrtburnout]

JoK3R']You want a drift track Fernbay is as close as i think it should get :thumb:

Yup, I think FE Gold Reverse is the best one, or maybe Black reverse :)

[NaBUru38]

It's been already posted that Corsica-like loops or tarmac-rallycross circuits would be a cool addition, IMO there should be more track variety.

As the LFS Wiki says, currennt rallycross tracks' speed averages go between 90km/h and 105km/h with the FZ 50, while the slowest tarmac track (South City Sprint 2) gets 115km/h. There is room for slower tarmac tracks.

Besides, these slow tracks are something like mid-size straight and tight corner (e.g. Blackwood RallyX). There could be tracks with slightly faster corners and shorter straights, and even better with "corner combos" (chicanes, double corners...).

[ajp71]

It's been already posted that Corsica-like loops or tarmac-rallycross circuits would be a cool addition, IMO there should be more track variety.

As the LFS Wiki says, currennt rallycross tracks' speed averages go between 90km/h and 105km/h with the FZ 50, while the slowest tarmac track (South City Sprint 2) gets 115km/h. There is room for slower tarmac tracks.


Hate to point it out but you'd get more variety if you bought LFS. When you actually drive the FZ on South City you'll soon find it's a pretty slow tight track, make them any slower of tighter and they'll have no chance to have any sort of flow.

[i_dOnT_KnOw]

i think that, every track is a good drift track, you cant like them if you dont learn them first. but it would be good if there is some tracks that are "only" desinged for drifting:thumb:

[frokki]

geez, bro!
1. Theres that auto-x shit 4 slo'-ass d-axn (for example, check drift challenge topic from layout section, i've had lots of fun drifting it!)
2. Please try to write proper english?
3. As many fellows have said already, most of the tracks are suitable to drift.

[deggis]

LFS is not a drifting simulation. Altough with the current physics some people think so...

[Hankstar]

I always thought RL drifting was done on particular sections of tracks anyway, not purpose-built drifting tracks...

Perhaps a tool where you could set seperate start and finish lines on a particular track would be useful to drifters who didn't want to use a whole circuit. Is there a tool like that in existence already? Forgive my noobishness if there is, I only play this game, I don't have the skills or patience to use or make addons :)

[Forbin]

where's the 'most definately not' option? I don't vote in biased polls :)
Agreed.

[XCNuse]

either way.. how much fun would it be to race some of these cars on mountain runs? that would be bundles of fun

[deggis]

I always thought RL drifting was done on particular sections of tracks anyway, not purpose-built drifting tracks...

Perhaps a tool where you could set seperate start and finish lines on a particular track would be useful to drifters who didn't want to use a whole circuit. Is there a tool like that in existence already? Forgive my noobishness if there is, I only play this game, I don't have the skills or patience to use or make addons :)
The layout editor (Shift+U)? I think you cant set a start/finish line with it.

[Hankstar]

The layout editor (Shift+U)? I think you cant set a start/finish line with it.

Ah! There you go then :thumbsup:
One learns something every day if one has the courage to admit one's ignorance :D

[Psycho Evangelion]

tho i would like to see a drift track based from a real one like nikko i know it's never going to happen:(

iroha pass is no track, it's a public road.

[Psycho Evangelion]

either way.. how much fun would it be to race some of these cars on mountain runs? that would be bundles of fun

amazingly fun!

I'm seriously hoping it gets implemented, since I enjoy doing the same thing in real life.

[xapexcivicx]

Just overall, we could use some point to point races, which someone (I think Sam) has said is impossible due to LFS's engine.


Or maybe that was an open course.

[NaBUru38]

But it's possible to make monutain loops... like in CMR... (ok, ok, no arcade words)

What he may mean is that new start and finish lines could be added on current circuits. The Autocross rectangles are limted: they are compltetely flat, there could be more room (specially regarding loop width, because drifting tracks are relatively wide), there is no grass...

[XCNuse]

that was open course apex; not point to point runs

[Gunn]

(...drifting tracks are relatively wide), there is no grass...In Japan their are a few purpose-built drifting tracks that are narrow, tight and with plenty of grass. Otherwise they often use normal Japanese circuits which are also often narrow with lots of grass. I know in the US D1 contests they use a speedway or arena with walls and concrete for miles but perhaps that is due to a lack of more suitable facilities?

[xapexcivicx]

Gunn, there are more then plenty of suitable drift courses in the US. But they choose the Irwindale speedway (They do, right?) And I think Raceway park here in NJ, because it is a challenging track, with many twists and turns :)

[(SaM)]

No need for drift tracks, drifting on race tracks works perfect. The curvature of the turns are very suitable for drifting. If you like, the objects editor can add some extra features to any track like it's done in D1GP (extra barriers and cones)

[lilsh4d]

But why not? You dont have to play it if u dont want, so it doesnt matter. I say we need them : )

[Jakg]

But why not? You dont have to play it if u dont want, so it doesnt matter. I say we need them : )i say its downright stupid asking for drifting tracks when you have never even driven anything other than BL, most "drift tracks" are race tracks, and there are some great corners for it in S2

[Gabkicks]

yeah it is pretty noobish to ask for a drift track.:scratchch

[jspec]

Can you explain me what on earth a "Drift track" is?! I mean look at all of those Drift Championships, do they really have "Drifting tracks" to drift? All of the tracks are racing tracks, sometimes re-arranged with some objects (tire walls, barriers, etc...).

[Sil.Eighty.Style]

Gunn, there are more then plenty of suitable drift courses in the US. But they choose the Irwindale speedway (They do, right?) And I think Raceway park here in NJ, because it is a challenging track, with many twists and turns :)

Silly Apex, Raceway Park (englishtown) is for the kickass clubloose events. Come out to one maybe I'll go sometime too. And it's at the paddock, not on the track, so its sort of like autox with the local drivers (can you say matt petty, jr, colin, and brian) kicking it every month. Formula D NJ is at Wall Speedway. which is like an oval with a little pass through to make like a figure 8...

Back on topic, I think the tracks we have in LFS are, for the most part, a lot better than the tracks in real life. Sorry, but I'd much rather drift at Aston than at a track like Irwindale or Wall Speedway.

[Greboth]

Drift tracks are usually race tracks, as said maybe modified with cones, tyre walls etc but still race tracks. Another thing is drift events rarely use alot of corners, if you watch they use very few corners. So if you want that run BL1R and take chicane and follwing corner or FE black reversed double chicane and left hander - both sets of corners are easily linkable.
-1 from me, didnt vote though as theres no "i dont think its a good idea at all" option

[Gabkicks]

Can you explain me what on earth a "Drift track" is?! I mean look at all of those Drift Championships, do they really have "Drifting tracks" to drift? All of the tracks are racing tracks, sometimes re-arranged with some objects (tire walls, barriers, etc...).

yeah thats it. there are gymkahana tracks made specificly for drifting. but most of the time it is like you say.

[jtr99]

Does a drift track have a lot of mirrored windows nearby so you can park your car and do that thing with the reversed decals?

Just asking, honest.

[Obizzz]

I don't drift but I think it's always good to learn more car control. A drift track would offer training possibilites.

[MAGGOT]

I won't bother reading the posts from what.. 4 months ago? I'll just say this; LFS is a racing simulator. Drifting is not racing. Case closed.

[Spudster]

i don't drift and it doesn't interest me at all, but i think it would be good to have a track with nice corners for the drifters.

i think it was the original need for speed undergraound that had drifting events. it was kinda fun to do.

if it improves the member base then i say go for it.:thumbsup:

speedfreak227

Precisely, if its been in NFSU then you won't find it here. LFS is almost 100% crap clean.

[Gabkicks]

great... here comes the drift bashing from the ignorant people -_-

[Spudster]

great... here comes the drift bashing from the ignorant people -_-

not bashing drifting, bashing nfsu

EDIT: whilst trying to post this post i got laughed at by the forum:

[Marty502]

But why not? You dont have to play it if u dont want, so it doesnt matter. I say we need them : )

Get S2 first, then after knowing ALL the tracks and configs available it might be feasible to ask more.

Plus, most drifters have a field day on the tracks available already. :thumb:

[Gabkicks]

yeah, the demo users probably arent aware that in s2 you can put down cones, barriers and tires and different start finnish points on tracks as well as checkpoints.:thumb: plus we have the autocross and skidpat and parkinglot

[m374llic4]

I have been playing LFS for a long time. And for a good while everyone, it seems, has a thing against drifters, but why? Just because your not in to it? I am not in to rally racing, so why are there rally tracks? Just because I dont like them, they should not be included? Thats the dumbest thing I ever heard.

Saying Drifting isn't a real sport, or isn't a real style of racing is just ignorant. Just because its not what your used to does not mean its not real. LFS is indeed a racing simulator, Drifting is a style of racing, as is autocross, rally, grip, and any other type people like to play.

quit being "LFS RL sim grip" fanboys and let the people who purchase the game play it how they want to. Thats why you can host personal servers and load what ever track you want.

Give us a mountian run map or 2 and just leave it at that. Sure all the other tracks are great, you can drift just fine, theres plenty of good turns. So what, there are alot more tracks in real life then that, so what not be able to play some? If you dont like it, so what? who cares if you dont like it, dont join the server and stay in your regulars. It will make absolutely no difference to your playing experience at all, everything will remain the same, you can play just the same as you always have. But people will be able to stop spending all there time bitching on the forums and be able to play the tracks they want.

So please, quit being babys.

[dave4002000]

I have been playing LFS for a long time. And for a good while everyone, it seems, has a thing against drifters, but why? Just because your not in to it? I am not in to rally racing, so why are there rally tracks? Just because I dont like them, they should not be included? Thats the dumbest thing I ever heard.

Saying Drifting isn't a real sport, or isn't a real style of racing is just ignorant. Just because its not what your used to does not mean its not real. LFS is indeed a racing simulator, Drifting is a style of racing, as is autocross, rally, grip, and any other type people like to play.

quit being "LFS RL sim grip" fanboys and let the people who purchase the game play it how they want to. Thats why you can host personal servers and load what ever track you want.

Give us a mountian run map or 2 and just leave it at that. Sure all the other tracks are great, you can drift just fine, theres plenty of good turns. So what, there are alot more tracks in real life then that, so what not be able to play some? If you dont like it, so what? who cares if you dont like it, dont join the server and stay in your regulars. It will make absolutely no difference to your playing experience at all, everything will remain the same, you can play just the same as you always have. But people will be able to stop spending all there time bitching on the forums and be able to play the tracks they want.

So please, quit being babys.

Couldn't have said it better myself :thumb: :thumb:

[MAGGOT]

Saying Drifting isn't a real sport, or isn't a real style of racing is just ignorant.

Actually, you are the ignorant one. Drifting isn't racing. It is about the visual aspect, the skill aspect, and of course the showmanship. In racing, the first to the finish lines wins, barring disqualification. In drifting, you are given a score based on various criteria, therefore, it is not racing. Drifting is the automotive equivalent of figure skating. (If you take that as an insult, then you truly are ignorant.)
It is a legitimate form of motorsport, but it is not racing.

Now, I will go back to my argument; LFS is a racing simulator. As per my comments above, drifting is not racing and thus, special accomodations should not have to be given.

[Gabkicks]

yes i dont like seeing the words drifting and racing in the same thread. its sorta like comparing figureskating to speed skating.

except with drifting competitions its like two figureskaters trying to pull off the same move simultaneuosly while trying and trying to go faster than the other one if possible

[m374llic4]

Actually, you are the ignorant one. Drifting isn't racing. It is about the visual aspect, the skill aspect, and of course the showmanship. In racing, the first to the finish lines wins, barring disqualification. In drifting, you are given a score based on various criteria, therefore, it is not racing. Drifting is the automotive equivalent of figure skating. (If you take that as an insult, then you truly are ignorant.)
It is a legitimate form of motorsport, but it is not racing.

Now, I will go back to my argument; LFS is a racing simulator. As per my comments above, drifting is not racing and thus, special accomodations should not have to be given.

Ok, that being said, Running on a skid pad isnt racing either, so get rid of it? No. Its part of what we refer to as motorsports, (aka racing) not nessecaraly the dictionary definition of racing, but a sport or activity done with cars.

So is drifting.

This is seriously starting to get old now...the meaning and objective of my post remains. Take it as you will.

[wheel4hummer]

Drifting is the automotive equivalent of figure skating.

Drifting : Figure Skating :: Racing : Speed Skating

Running on a skid pad isnt racing either, so get rid of it?

Why do you think there is a skidpad? Because it aides you in making setups for racing. And, I do not see how you can make that comparison. No-one said anything about getting rid of drifting, just not adding special accomadations (sp?). Sorry to sound harsh. :nod:

[Hankstar]

OK, we've established drifitng is sport, but not racing so I won't go there :) But..

Since drift events these days are almost exclusively run on sections of existing tracks, asking for "drift tracks" is ridiculous because "drift tracks" don't exist. With all the tracks and configs available I think it's a bit OTT to ask for something that's so specific to such a minority sport. RL drifters have to make do with the tracks that are there. LFS has plenty of tracks and you can run them all in reverse. I don't really see the problem :shrug:

Asking for a mountain run or two is also unreasonable because LFS can't do point-to-point runs at this stage in its development. Therefore, rally stages (and hillclimbs and touge) will have to come later, if at all. I suspect Eric & Co. would much rather dedicate their time to making great race tracks for everyone and not cater for any special interest groups.

[Gabkicks]

i mentioned before that drift tracks do exist. there are tracks made specificly for drifting but they arent needed in lfs. we have tracks already with nice corners and we have the ability to put down cones and barriers and layouts and such... i already said this a few posts above

[george_tsiros]

grip racing?
as opposed to... drift racing?

Am i the only one who feels somewhat insulted by the term "grip racing" ?

[m374llic4]

Whats to be unsulted by? normal racing requires grip? i have played games where you pick your style of racing, drift or grip. whats the problem?

You guys are so narrowminded. Things have to be your way or not at all. This reminds me why I stopped visiting the forums in the first place. There is no room for compromise or reasonable accomodations.

I will just assume end this conversation and be on my way.

[imthebestracerthereis]

turn your car more sideways to drift... -nuff said :P

[Gabkicks]

lol i think grip or drift racing came from ridge racer. :D

a great game but its pretty much the exact opposite of LFS.

[Skyline_Drifter_]

OK, we've established drifitng is sport, but not racing so I won't go there :) But..

Since drift events these days are almost exclusively run on sections of existing tracks, asking for "drift tracks" is ridiculous because "drift tracks" don't exist. With all the tracks and configs available I think it's a bit OTT to ask for something that's so specific to such a minority sport. RL drifters have to make do with the tracks that are there. LFS has plenty of tracks and you can run them all in reverse. I don't really see the problem :shrug:

Asking for a mountain run or two is also unreasonable because LFS can't do point-to-point runs at this stage in its development. Therefore, rally stages (and hillclimbs and touge) will have to come later, if at all. I suspect Eric & Co. would much rather dedicate their time to making great race tracks for everyone and not cater for any special interest groups.


Sekia Hills and Ebisu Circuit are both made for Drift racing ;)

Oh, and, we're not technically pushing Eric to make mountain runs, we're just suggesting it.

[m374llic4]

Exactly. Its not like I want "dryft tyres!!11 and nawss!!!" Just a mountian run. How long would it possably take to map a course like that? Not long. I have made many maps for many other games, and its not a huge project that takes months and months.

[george_tsiros]

Whats to be unsulted by? normal racing requires grip? i have played games where you pick your style of racing, drift or grip. whats the problem?

You guys are so narrowminded. Things have to be your way or not at all. This reminds me why I stopped visiting the forums in the first place. There is no room for compromise or reasonable accomodations.

I will just assume end this conversation and be on my way.
Drifting is not racing. You can say it is a sport, but it is not racing. So it is meaningless to say "drift racing" and "grip racing". It is "drifting" and "racing". "Racing" is "you start here. these are the restrictions. get there. whoever gets there in the least time, is declared winner."

Don't be so open minded, man, your brains might fall out.

there is room for reasonable accomodations. for the love of all that is cruncy, we have city streets, dragstrips, club circuits... minis caterhams coupes hatchback prototypes openwheelers F1... A simulator so elaborate that takes into consideration the temperature of the tyre in 5 different positions and the phase of the moon.

... and you use this for drifting ?

Why use LFS if you want drifting? isn't NFS good enough for this?

[dave4002000]

i really wish the admins or the devs would lock these topics as soon as they came up. Every week there is a new discussion(well, high school type argument is more like it) about drifting. It's starting to get old. The same thing, over and over again. Some people demanding that LFS needs to cater to drifters and others flaming them for it. Then everyone thinks that they know everything there is to know about drifting and wants to tell the entire world. If you want to drift, that's fine...if you don't want to drift...that's fine. I really don't see the problem here.

Now, notice that i've kept this post nice and clean. I didn't insult anyone or anything. But i can almost guarantee you that i will get all kinds of people trying to flame me. Because that is what happens in these types of topics.

[Blowtus]

Why use LFS if you want drifting? isn't NFS good enough for this?


NFS does racing too, why bother with LFS? :shrug:

[wheel4hummer]

I started drifting. But, I figured something out. If I can slide my car at a greater angle sideways on purpose while drifting and recover, then when I am racing I can recover from accidental oversteer easier.

[m374llic4]

NFS does racing too, why bother with LFS? :shrug:

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

[Gabkicks]

NFS does racing too, why bother with LFS? :shrug::thumb:

[Hankstar]

Sekia Hills and Ebisu Circuit are both made for Drift racing ;)

Oh, and, we're not technically pushing Eric to make mountain runs, we're just suggesting it.

Well, how about that. And they say the web isn't educational :D But "drift racing" doesn't exist .. it's an oxymoron ;)

Just FYI, making mountain runs would require a substantial re-write of LFS code in order to allow point-to-point (as opposed to circuit) stages, so I wouldn't get my hopes up :shrug: I'd like to see rally stages one day though, so I suppose we want similar things there..

[Jamexing]

There's actually a simple way to make everyone happy. Just a a Monte Carlo WRC stage style circuit and problem solved for all people.

BTW, I refuse to vote because the choices aren't exactly neutral to all parties.

[m374llic4]

It doesnt have to be point to point. Make it a circut around the mountian up and down, doesnt have to be mt.everest. One side up one side down.

[Hankstar]

Then you'd just have a whole new circuit, which would be fine with me :D :up:

[george_tsiros]

NFS does racing too, why bother with LFS? :shrug:

NFS doesn't do "racing". Read my post again. driving dangerously in traffic and/or backroads is not called "racing". It is called "driving dangerously in traffic and/or backroads"

m3t4l1ca, gabbicks, so quick to give thumbs up, don't you have homework to do?

[Jamexing]

As explained by m374llic4, a Monte Carlo styled tight and twisty track is exactly what will satisfied both serious rally racers and drifters. As m374llic4 explianed, just make it a round the mountain track so that we still end up at the same point as ths start. Then we won't need this thread and everyone would be happy. :) :D

[Blowtus]

NFS doesn't do "racing". Read my post again. driving dangerously in traffic and/or backroads is not called "racing". It is called "driving dangerously in traffic and/or backroads"

So if it did 'racing' that would be all we'd need? The realistic physics of LFS wouldn't matter?
I think drifting is rather wankerish myself, but it's pretty easy to see that if you enjoy drifting it'd be more fun to do it realistically.

[m374llic4]

To be perfectly honest with you, touge is what I am more after, not D1 point style drifting. and yes, touge is racing. D1 style drifting is not. There is a winner in touge based on speed, but drifting is applied to help around the turns in order to keep speed up.

as for george_tsiros trying to be funny and all. I am 20, have a son and have a full time job. Good try being a dick. but no, it did not work. You just sound as stupid as everyone else who blames ideas they think are dumb on "12-y-o" noobs.

[anbiddulph]

why isnt there a no f***ing way choice in the poll?

[george_tsiros]

maybe you should have to do homework. or should have had. or something.

"dick" ?

thank you.

[Jamexing]

Drifting as seen in those drift 'races' are just artificially induced excess yaw motion. However driting is applied for serious racing, AKA to go FAST.:)

Driting is a necessity to go fast on slippery surfaces such as geavel and especially snow. Now THAT'S REAL DRIFTING.:) Not wasting precious rubber and other resources to be burnt off on tarmac and destroying our environment for noting.

Once LFS applies true gravel and snow, no one could complain of lack of REAL drifting. To sway around like an out of control moose is just silly. But to exit corners with perfectly executed 4-wheel-drifts to maximize exit speed and use of tire grip... Now that's drifting in my book.:)

[george_tsiros]

in those cases, drifting (ie powerdriving/powersliding not sure how its called) is only one of the techniques (left foot braking, flicking, handbrake, etcetcetc) used to go fast.

it can be used in tarmac too, but it is not so much drifting as a very very slight oversteer to take a corner faster than it is possible to take without losing traction at all.

[Matrixi]

I have a suggestions about the "point to point" necessarity about mountain tracks. They wouldn't actually have to be point to point tracks, make a cone at the top and bottom of the track which you would go around 180 degrees. That way you would be going uphill and downhill for so called "laps". I would seriously love LFS to have a proper touge. But sad to say that I'm 90% certain that we will never get one. You could go on saying that after S3 there will be mod tools released, but I can't think of any 3rd person to make a track with such detail and commitment as Eric. Who would want to drive on a badly modelled and textured mountain track made by an amateur modder? I wouldn't.

When LFS is getting closer to the point of final version (if that will ever come), it would be nice to see a voting where there are options about what kind of cars and tracks people would want to the so called LFS final. That way we wouldn't really even need modding tools to be released. Sure it would be a bit more work for the devs at that time, but it would be certain that there wouldn't be any low quality 3rd party addons out there.

I'm not talking about hundreds of addon cars and tracks, let's just say that there would be ~10-15 cars (pre-voted by the community) and 5-7 tracks (pre-voted by the community). From those there would be a final voting for let's say 5 cars and 2-4 tracks to be added to the LFS final by the devs. That way the majority of the community would get what they want, and LFS would still have its high quality gameplay remain intact.

I guess I got carried away in my post again. :shy:

[Jamexing]

My point exactly. It's all about relatively small and controlled drift angles to improve turn in and exit. :)

[Primoz]

Relatively small angles? Are you a speed drifter? Thought so.:pillepall

[jspec]

To be perfectly honest with you, touge is what I am more after, not D1 point style drifting. and yes, touge is racing. D1 style drifting is not. There is a winner in touge based on speed, but drifting is applied to help around the turns in order to keep speed up.

so you are saying that sliding your car is faster than taking a turn in a regular way, without over or understeer? oh come on...

plus touge is a different kind of racing, but it doesn't include drifting. and drifting on winding roads is not something like touge.


drifting is nice, and i try it sometimes. . . but LFS and the devs are more (imho) into real racing (grip racing, gripping, ya-da ya-da... ), so why on earth are you still arguing about this? :)

[george_tsiros]

what is a "speed drifter" ? is it supposed to be "bad" or "crazy" (:pillepall)? All i know is that some turns can be taken faster when slightly oversteering.

or are you going to call wrc drivers "speed drifters :pillepall" too?

[Jamexing]

Yep. Speed drifting is about maximizing use of the tire's grip, not going sideways just to impress your GF or judeges or whoever. Speed drifting is just a natural result of going as fast as your tires and chasis allows as dictated by physical laws. Try some WRC style driving on a gravel track and see what my true definition of drifting means. :)

BTW, Nuvolari was known to be extraordinarily fast at his time due to his mastery of 4-wheel drifting, whereby he'll turn in earlier than a purely grip-style driver would and exit much faster than everyone else. In his era of overpowered and undertired cars, it ws the fastest way to drive. If only I could find some video footage of his driving...

To go as fast as possible around a circuit requires maximum use of the tire's grip. Contrary to popular belief, static friction isn't the greatest. The greatest grip comes only when the tires are drifting slightly (a few degrees, tyre and surface dependant), just before they completely let go(sliding friction). That's why small angle drifts produce ultimate speed. If you stay completely within the non-drift envelop, you'll never squeeze every last bit out of the tires.

Showoff style-drifters, see the light and see what TRUE DRIFTING is all about!:) If Nuvolari was alive today, he would have puked at what a complete mockery drifiting has become today. Burning rear tires for the sake of entertaining todays increasingly ignorant and overpriviledged rich kids? What a waste.

[Obizzz]

Exactly. Its not like I want "dryft tyres!!11 and nawss!!!" Just a mountian run. How long would it possably take to map a course like that? Not long. I have made many maps for many other games, and its not a huge project that takes months and months.

I do track models for a living on a different racing sim and I'd say it's not a small task to just throw together a new track like that if it's going to be of the same quality as the rest of the LFS tracks.

I started drifting. But, I figured something out. If I can slide my car at a greater angle sideways on purpose while drifting and recover, then when I am racing I can recover from accidental oversteer easier.

I agree, drifting can be a nice way to learn more car control

[GTR_Yuni]

NFS does racing too, why bother with LFS? :shrug:
Because LFS is more 'real'...?

[MAGGOT]

To be perfectly honest with you, touge is what I am more after, not D1 point style drifting. and yes, touge is racing. D1 style drifting is not. There is a winner in touge based on speed, but drifting is applied to help around the turns in order to keep speed up.

Okay, why didn't somebody say "Touge" then? Touge and drifting are two different things. Touge is proper racing. The fact they drift is to maintain speed. Why does touge have to be done on a mountain? That style of racing has been used since the massive Auto Union of way back when. (30s?) Up until (and even after) F1 cars had wings, 4 wheel drifts were the only way to drive those tin cans wih wheels (God I love those things! :D). 4 wheel drifts are used in rallying as well, both tarmac and gravel/dirt/whatever. So, why do you need a mountain track to do this on?

Having said that, I would love a mountain track. I love rallying, so exciting to see a master throw the car down a twisty 'road' barely wide enough to walk down without hitting the trees, rocks, and fans at high speeds. Why has this phenomenon been labelled as 'Touge" now, though? Is it simply to put a japanese twist so that the ricer culture can embrace it? This is not a japanese form of racing. Anyways.. like I said, I would love a mountain course, would be a lot of fun, very challenging as well.


so you are saying that sliding your car is faster than taking a turn in a regular way, without over or understeer? oh come on...

It is, in some cases.

[MyBoss]

I would welcome a drift track.

Honestly, I don't drift. But a track like that would benefit those that don't drift either.
Drift tracks usually got allot of turns close to each other, a track like that could be fun with the UF1 :D

[Matrixi]

Okay, why didn't somebody say "Touge" then? Touge and drifting are two different things. Touge is proper racing. The fact they drift is to maintain speed. Why does touge have to be done on a mountain?
I'm sorry, but I have to get this straight, as you don't seem to know the actual meaning of the word "touge". The word "touge" actually means pass in japanese, as in Mountain Pass. You're right that the word has nothing to do with drifting, because people do both at touge, drift AND race.

Just had to clear this up. :thumb:

[george_tsiros]

people do both at touge, drift AND race.

Just had to clear this up. :thumb:

you didn't clear it up, really.

if, during racing, you "drift", in order to be fast, then the most accurate way of describing this is "racing", not "drifting AND racing".
you don't "drift AND race". it is not two distinct things.
When you trail brake, you don't say "trailbrake AND race", do you? of course not. Trailbraking is a technique used while racing. Like when wrc drivers pull the handbrake in order to get faster. You don't say "handbraking AND racing".

[Gabkicks]

well its common for people to show off if they are owning someone on the touge. like if i am a few car lengths ahead of someone then i might drift a few corners to show off to the crowd. infact its almost expected. also with leaves and gravel and dirt and such some turns are very slippery anyways so drifting doesnt take much effort.

[george_tsiros]

to cut a long story short:

we are not going to see a 'touge'-oriented mountain track in LFS. nor drifting-oriented. 'touge' is not official racing, it is borderline illegal 'street racing'. 'drifting', while it is a sport, it is not racing. If the realism of LFS allows us to 'drift race', as it is called, it is a welcome sideeffect. like crash-derbies.

we might (and would be pretty awesome) see a mountain road with lots of inclination changes and slippery surface. because these kinds of tracks exist in the real professional racing world.

[Matrixi]

you didn't clear it up, really.

if, during racing, you "drift", in order to be fast, then the most accurate way of describing this is "racing", not "drifting AND racing".
you don't "drift AND race". it is not two distinct things.
You should stop smoking whatever you're smoking and slap yourself in the face. You obviously completely missed my point, which was to explain mr. maggot what a touge is.

When you trail brake, you don't say "trailbrake AND race", do you? of course not. Trailbraking is a technique used while racing.
Trail braking is a racing technique like you said yourself, not a drifting technique. You use trailbraking WHILE you are racing. Get your head straight.

Like when wrc drivers pull the handbrake in order to get faster. You don't say "handbraking AND racing".
The WRC drivers are racing. When they pull the handbrake or do the so-called scandinavian flick, that is to get somewhere faster. Not to look good (=drift).


I think the differences between a true drift and basic sliding are a bit blurry to you. Therefore please try to give this a bit thought:

Drifting is the easiest thing in the world to explain. You go sideways before a corner while maintaining maximum possible angle and highest possible speed and exit after the corner (and possibly linking your drift to the next corner entry). Racing is racing, getting to the finishing point the fastest. There are people who like to drift with small angles that it's almost not drifting anymore, that is called speed-drifting. Limiting the amount of your drift.

If you're driving in a really tight touge for example, it might be a bit faster to let the tail out a bit after the apex instead of understeering the whole way, but that isn't drifting. That's power-over sliding.

Can we let it rest now?

[Gabkicks]

the great thing about the internet is people do not hesitate to show their ignorance. its good there are other people there to try point out the truth:thumb:

[george_tsiros]

You should stop smoking whatever you're smoking and slap yourself in the face.
:thumb:

the great thing about the internet is people missing the point altogether. its good there are other people there to try and show them that they're not going to see a drift track.

[Crazy Harry]

Sounds like an old ovaaaaal thread. ^^

I tried it out with a few friends. Drifting is huge fun with LFS. We build some tracks at AU_1 and drift like hell. Hope we´ll have a 24/7 drift server soon in FM. Actually I´m runnin´a test server. :D


LETS DRIFT :schwitz:

[XCNuse]

we are not going to see a 'touge'-oriented mountain track in LFS. nor drifting-oriented. 'touge' is not official racing ... it is not racing
--
we might (and would be pretty awesome) see a mountain road with lots of inclination changes and slippery surface. because these kinds of tracks exist in the real professional racing world.
..you must be on something if you change your mind that fast

touge may not be official.. but does that stop someone from winning a cup or money in an earthworm race? i would suppose not

also.. drifting can be a race.. here would you like me to show you the deffinition of the word race? a race doesnt mean you have to go around something faster than anyone else

here:

Sports.<LI type=a>A competition of speed, as in running or riding.
races A series of such competitions held at a specified time on a regular course
An extended competition in which participants struggle like runners to be the winnerunnoficial or not, a race is a race whether it is recorded or not

its like history; if its not in the books doesn't mean it never happened

[george_tsiros]

..you must be on something if you change your mind that fast
:thumb:

can you see the difference between:

a 'touge'/'drift' oriented track
vs.
a mountain track like the one in WRC.
?

"it is not racing" == "it is not the kind of racing that LFS tries to simulate."

i sense that there is a huge misunderstanding lurking here.

[TagForce]

"it is not racing" == "it is not the kind of racing that LFS tries to simulate."

i sense that there is a huge misunderstanding lurking here.

Yeah, the misunderstanding being that you (and loads of others) seem to know exactly what kind of racing LFS tries to simulate now and in the future...

On the official LFS site there's no mention whatsoever about the kind of racing being simulated. Just that it is a racing simulator. There was talk about a rally pack being released at some stage during development. However, there's no hint of rallying in the current release. So, who knows, maybe once there are more racing rules implemented, some subset of "drifting" rules will be added. Until S3 is finished we have no idea what will be added. The only thing that Victor said was that there will be no NOS implemented as it's about racing tuning, and not about pimp tuning.

[george_tsiros]

i know what i have read on the lfs site. it says "serious racing simulator". i have understood the way the developers view drifting. None of them (Scawen, Victor, Eric) have even mentioned drifting in any of their posts.that's all i need to know.

[george_tsiros]

enough of this mindless bickering. we want drift, we don't want drift, drift is racing no it isn't yes it is, no, yes, no, yes, you didn't understand, yes i did, no you didn't, i meant this, i meant that...

enough.

i do not care at all about drifting, as i don't care about X and Y. that is all i can say.

[Gabkicks]

meh you cared enough to post here. lol you dont care about drifters and people tht drift don't care about you.

[george_tsiros]

meh you cared enough to post here.sometimes i participate in discussions, not necessarily caring about the subject, but about the discussion itself.
lol you dont care about drifters and people tht drift don't care about you.
I feel that you don't care about this discussion at all, judging by the way you write.

[Gabkicks]

you are somehat correct. :) i am just waiting for K1 grand prix to come on in 1 hour

The reason lfs attracts so many drifters is because the game simulates rwd sportscars very well compared to other simulators. some people for some strange reason are bothered by this and are anti-drifting so they go into threads like this and try and start up a meaningless arguement. then others take the bait. :p

you can miss-interprit the developer's focus if it pleases you to be anti drifting.

[MAGGOT]

I'm sorry, but I have to get this straight, as you don't seem to know the actual meaning of the word "touge". The word "touge" actually means pass in japanese, as in Mountain Pass. You're right that the word has nothing to do with drifting, because people do both at touge, drift AND race.

Just had to clear this up. :thumb:

Well, like I said, is the name in place simply for the Japanese twist to attract today's ricer crowd? Touge isn't the style of racing, it is what people who don't know any better call it. If touge literally means 'pass,' then that makes the name itself pointless. "Hey, did you guys check out that wicked "Pass" track!?!?" :really:

[Crazy Harry]

Going from A to B or round a circuit is always racing. Would you say Rallye is not racing because of the lateral gs? BS! So drifting is racing, too. No one says that racing ONLY means getting from A to B in the fastest time. If you think so, dolphin style isn´t swimming because you can go faster with freestyle?

[MAGGOT]

Going from A to B or round a circuit is always racing. Would you say Rallye is not racing because of the lateral gs? BS! So drifting is racing, too. No one says that racing ONLY means getting from A to B in the fastest time. If you think so, dolphin style isn´t swimming because you can go faster with freestyle?

What? The drifting phenomenan sweeping the youth isn't racing. It is all about showmanship. You are given a score based on your performance, you don't beat someone by finishing faster than them, you beat someone by impressing judges. That[b] is not racing. "Touge" (still say we need a proper name to call this type of mountain racing.) is racing, drifting is not.

[b]No one says that racing ONLY means getting from A to B in the fastest time

Uhm, actually, yea.. Racing is about getting somewhere the quickest. That's why it's racing. Different forms have different speeds and rules of finishing first, but the first to finish is always the winner, unless they are disqualified. As I said, drifting is not about speed, it is about impressing judges. You don't win by navigating the course fastest, you win by getting a higher score. That is not racing.

[Gabkicks]

yeah lol just look up what the word race or racing means in the dictionary. Racing is more objective. as you say there is a time to beat. drifting is more subjective. its obvious what the perfect drift is for certain corners. and then the judges decide who got closest to the perfect drift.

there are different criteria for different drift events.

with rallying its about who can get the quickest from pt a to pt b.

[TagForce]

yeah lol just look up what the word race or racing means in the dictionary.

Race -
- an extended competition where the participants struggle like runners to be the winner (ie. the presidential race)

Racing -
- to move rapidly, or at top speed
- to compete (against) in a race

(but I doubt you meant these meanings)

[Gabkicks]

or did i?:scratchch

[Blowtus]

Going from A to B or round a circuit is always racing. Would you say Rallye is not racing because of the lateral gs? BS! So drifting is racing, too. No one says that racing ONLY means getting from A to B in the fastest time. If you think so, dolphin style isn´t swimming because you can go faster with freestyle?

No, that is just a class of racing. Like TBO's. Drifting = synchronised swimming :)

[Hankstar]

I think we should be more specific here, since we're talking about motorsport.

In terms of motorsport, racing is where the fastest driver - the driver that finishes the course or set number of laps first, or drives the furthest within the time limit (i.e. Le Mans 24hr) - wins. It's the same regardless of whether you race the clock, as in rally, or a field of cars on a circuit. Drivers are not given points for style, they are given points based on their finishing order.

BTW calling it "grip racing" isn't something I find offensive, it's just pointless. It simply states the bleeding obvious :D It's a tautology, like "cold snow", "wet mud" or "slow Camry".

In drifting events, the winner is the driver who scores the most points and it doesn't matter if he crosses the line first. Crossing the line first can work against you, as it means you probably weren't as stylin' as the guy you were competing against. It's skilled drivers, competing together on a racetrack, but it's not racing.

Both forms of motorsport are contests of skill, only one is a contest of speed.

[Gabkicks]

yeah thats mostly true but some drifting events put more inphasis on passing.

[Hankstar]

True, but generally speaking...

Anyway, if they don't drift but beat the other guy to the line, they don't win :)

[Jamexing]

Can't believe the amount of silly stuff thrown around here. For the good of all of the LFS community, please go to google and search fo Tazio Nuvolari and settle this anti drift madness for good. But seriously, this tryig to score points and impress who knows who is making a mockery of motorsports. Again showing it's better to be lucky than good.

Here's the website to enlighten you all about the great Flying Mantuan:

http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/nuvo_bio.htm

Better yet, read this:

http://www.forix.com/8w/nuvolari.html

Please read this little bit of history before anyone goes anti drifting again.

The true drifter isn't who wags his tail the most; it's he who's mastered complete control of his car and goes as fast as physics would allow him. It's a sad fact that this money worshipping and overcommercialized world of ours places winning at all cost above the good of any sport.

[Gabkicks]

yeah i wish we had some pre-downforce f1 type cars in lfs lol. if you listen to commentary from the 50s to 70's they often mention drifting through this or that corner. but they drift around corners for similar reasons to rally cars.

i dont think of the D1 competitons today as mockery of the sportbecause of the judging... its just all the sponsorship and commercialism that isnt so great :p. its good for the drivers to get payed for doing something they love. In the end its all about car control. With drifting its about getting as much angle as possible while having decent speed through corners... with racing its just about going as fast as possible.

[Blowtus]

Can't believe the amount of silly stuff thrown around here. For the good of all of the LFS community, please go to google and search fo Tazio Nuvolari and settle this anti drift madness for good. But seriously, this tryig to score points and impress who knows who is making a mockery of motorsports. Again showing it's better to be lucky than good.

Here's the website to enlighten you all about the great Flying Mantuan:

He was a race car driver, not a drifter!! If driving straight was faster for him he'd have done that, his aim was to win, not to look pretty.

[Jamexing]

I'm saying that his 4-wheel drifts are a natural result of trying to go faster than everyone else, not artificially induced as todays so-called drifters. :)

True, he has no intention to show off, unlike todays increasingly ignorant yet arrogant kids. I'm in university and you'll be stunned at the lack of fundamental understanding in almost everything the majority of the people(students and teachers included) here show. It's just a natural result of getting the most out of the relatively low grip cars of his time. And yes, he must be one of the greatest race drivers of all time.:)

[Blowtus]

What point are you trying to make though? Anyone can watch WRC and see that there are situations where driving outside the traction envelope is faster...

[Jamexing]

I'm saying don't judge drifting based on the overcommercialized sideways for the sake of sideways junk. Judge it as another form of vehicular behaviour. :)

WRC style drifting... Now that's REAL DRIFTING.

[Blowtus]

you don't understand. When people talking about 'drifting', they're referring specifically to the overcommercialised, sideways for the sake of sideways junk. They're not just talking about a bit of oversteer.

[Jamexing]

Which is such a trajedy, because the word drifting and its meaning were in existance well before this overcommercialized junk. When one forgets the origin and history of something, trajedy is the only possible result.

Back in Nuvolari's era, race drifting was exactly what he did as a result of his persuit of faster driving.

The meaning of the word drifting has been severely warped thanks againt to mindless pop culture. Just to be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, when I say drift, I mean it's original meaning(teathering at the edge of grip, the edge of control). That tire smoking tail wagging madness is more accurately called SLIDING in racing terms.

On the contrary Blowtus, I understand perfectly. :)

[zetecr]

...In the end its all about car control. With drifting its about getting as much angle as possible while having decent speed through corners... with racing its just about going as fast as possible.
After having voted emphatic YES, and having read through the posts in this thread, I'm surprised to find so much antipathy towards drifting among motorsports enthusiasts. As a seasoned simulation driver (anyone remember the original Papyrus Indy 500?) I've very much enjoyed circuit racing sims over the years, but since I came across drifting a year or so back, I've come to appreciate car control from another angle (no pun intended!) altogether. What some purists seem to fail to see or unwilling to accept is that "drifting", like any other skill, can be developed into a fine art.

Just to expand on Gabkicks' point, motorsport is not all about the stopwatch, nor is it about "showing-off". It is the sport of mastering car control, the art of sensing the car's grip, momentum and rotational inertia then applying the controls to make it do what you want. In racing, the stop watch is the only measure of these skills. In drifting, there simply happens to be additional criteria. I find it snobbish of circuit racers to deride the concept of drifting because of its origin (Japan) and/or relative administrative immaturity (after all, it IS relatively new!).

Getting back on the thread topic, I think those arguing for "drift circuits" could do well to define more clearly what they are looking for. I can see how circuit racing enthusiasts would cringe at the thought of development resources being spent on a convoluted track that they might find most unenjoyable. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, I for one simply would like broader choice of venues, and I see mountainous "public road" courses as being the one glaring omission in LFS at the moment. (I also would like to see real tracks, but I digress...)

I venture to say the poll would get much better support if the question was re-worded to read something like this:
"Do you want LFS to include public-road courses (whether A to B or closed) in the style of targa/WRC tarmac stages or touges that is built over steep mountainous terrain?" What do people think?

[Jamexing]

zetecr, you've really nailed it. :)

WRC fun NEVER gets OLD!

[Crazy Harry]

I tried and tried on my Test server... without drifting around the corners my times are SLOWER around the track. So with drifting I can pass the finish line quicker. So... it ... must ... be... RACING!!! CALL ME TAZIO! :D

[george_tsiros]

what was your goal? lap time? oversteer angle?

[Crazy Harry]

PB and Driftpoints (LFS-Lapper)

[Jamexing]

A faster lap time is always a faster laptime, unless the temporal mechanics at the region by which the laptime was achieved was somehow warped.:)

[Primoz]

WRC cars drift because they are usually slightly front heavy (engine, tranny, front diff). They do compensate this by putting the driver and co driver further back, but it doesn't help completely. So on loose surfaces (snow and gravel) they oversteer a bit (drift, powerslide, whatever) to compensate for the front heavyness and prevent the understeering from happening. That's all. Go play RBR and go through a gravel hairpin the normal, racing way and then go through it while oversteering. What's better?

EDIT: Or use the RB4 on FE RallyX track (the long one). There's a nice hairpin there.

[Jamexing]

Moot question. They are, strictly speaking, drifting anyway. The only way to completely avoid all sideways motion is to drive like a granny. Scandinavian flick ("feint drift") through the hairpins perfectly and you'll see why Scandinavians historically dominate snow stages. :)

On tarmac events, fastest is usually smooth and neutral, until you reach that ultra-tight switchback...

It's just a function of lateral grip. On gravel and snow surfaces where longitudinal grip exceeds lateral grip, controlled drifts (not all over the place tail wagging) are the fastest. On tarmac events where lateral grip is as good or better, smooth and neutral dominates until that 2-lane wide hairpin turns up. :) Now where's the handbrake...

Remember, WRC cars are practically aero-downforce free, especially on non-tarmac tracks. Significant downforce would wreck havoc with suspensions as downforce grows with the square of speed, causing supension compression, the last thing you'll need to survive that bump...

The reason High downforce cars don't drift is because of their reliance on aero-downforce. A few CFD tests with an F-1 style wing will quicky show that wings don't like yaw angles greater than 2 degrees.

[Hyperactive]

...
Remember, WRC cars are practically aero-downforce free, especially on non-tarmac tracks. Significant downforce would wreck havoc with suspensions as downforce grows with the square of speed, causing supension compression, the last thing you'll need to survive that bump...

...

This sounds wrong to me. The cars have their "wings" attached on all races, and they do add downforce to the car resulting in more grip. Was it Solberg or someone else who lost his rear wing and the car became a lot harder to drive. WRC does use aerodynamics even though they are not as important that they are in F1 :)

[Jamexing]

The rear wing was simply used to relieve excess oversteer at high speeds. since all WRC cars are front heavy anyway, they are usually set to oversteer quite a bit to aid turn in and exit.

The wing on Solberg's Subaru is chiefly to stabilize the rear. It's no surprise that he complains of the car being harder to drive without it, especially at the higher speed sections.

The downforce to weight ratio of WRC cars are no where close to 1 even at top speed. At attempt to attach chin spoilers would be futile, since they'll only survive until the next jump.

[Crazy Harry]

The rear wing was simply used to relieve excess oversteer at high speeds. since all WRC cars are front heavy anyway, they are usually set to oversteer quite a bit to aid turn in and exit.


Don´t really understand what the front/weight balance have to do with the drifting. IMHO a heavy back is more easy to force into drift. Look to a Renault Alpine A110 for example.

[Jamexing]

That's why Porsches are setup to understeer, since their pendulum like rears swng around a lot anyway. :)

Front heaviness causes understeer, as that massive front mass is reluctant to turn. To compensate, the car's suspension is set to cause oversteer. :)

[Crazy Harry]

Like the best driver of all time says: "As soon as the tail (Audi S1) starts to slide, it's safe to nail the throttle until you start catching flies with the side windows." :D

[m374llic4]

This is just turning in to a "my dick is bigger then yours" thread about peoples supposed knowledge on history and racing.

The fact is people want mountian circuts. End of story.

Lock thread.

[wheel4hummer]

I'm saying don't judge drifting based on the overcommercialized sideways for the sake of sideways junk.

But that is what drifting is! The definition of drifting to me is overseering the farthest you can, making the most smoke, and getting points. Every thing else, like WRC, is not drifting. That's just going fast.

[Jamexing]

Agreed, m374llic4:)

[Crazy Harry]

This is just turning in to a "my dick is bigger then yours" thread about peoples supposed knowledge on history and racing.

The fact is people want mountian circuts. End of story.

Lock thread.


It´s always good to read through a WHOLE thread before answering something stupid. See the threads name? It´s about drifting not about rallye stages. :pillepall

Crazy "LFSzilla" Harry =)

[m374llic4]

It´s always good to read through a WHOLE thread before answering something stupid. See the threads name? It´s about drifting not about rallye stages. :pillepall

Crazy "LFSzilla" Harry =)

I have read the whole thread. Which is exactly why I said what I did. If you had read it also, you would say the same thing. :pillepall

Anyways, I am going to go race.

[george_tsiros]

one can take corners oversteering for two reasons.

a) to show off
b) to take the corner faster

both are "drifting".

the first is "drifting", as in "a sport called drifting"
the second is "drifting", as in "a technique used in racing".

is it clear, this way?

[wheel4hummer]

one can take corners oversteering for two reasons.

a) to show off
b) to take the corner faster

both are "drifting".

the first is "drifting", as in "a sport called drifting"
the second is "drifting", as in "a technique used in racing".

is it clear, this way?

No, it really isnt. Only the first one is "drifting." The 2nd is just oversteering.

[tristancliffe]

There is just a terminology barrier.

I never ever ever drift whilst racing. I might get a bit of a slide (or a big slide), and I might vary my slip angle depending on circumstance, but I'll never drift. Drifting, for me, is all about 'look at me homies, I can make a car slide innit'. Drifters don't care about lap times or beating a clock. Racers do.

It really annoys me when I hold a slide around a corner and people say 'nice drift'. I WASN'T FECKING DRIFTING!!! I was trying to catch the person ahead/pull out a lead/beat a pb/qualify on pole. Not drift. If I was drifting I would slap lots of stickers on my car the wrong way round and speak in mumbles because I'm too shy and have tonnes of acne...

[MAGGOT]

No, it really isnt. Only the first one is "drifting." The 2nd is just oversteering.

No, it is still drifting. The term drifting was around long before the modern difting sport was.

[Captain Slow]

i dont drift. i ant drift. i probably never will drift. but other people like drifting so y not open up for them a bit. obviously there are more racers than drifters, so we will still gave more race tracks than drift tracks.

[tristancliffe]

No, it is still drifting. The term drifting was around long before the modern difting sport was.

The term gay was around long before it was attached to homosexuals. The point being that terms do change. Drifting is no longer the correct term to describe oversteer characteristics whilst racing - slides, slip etc do that. Drifting nowadays (to me) is purely and simply the showing off stylised driving.

[MAGGOT]

Gay still means happy, though. Just people associate it with homosexuality. (Or other random things. For instance "I'll use something other than gay Firefox")

In racing, a 4-wheel drift is still a drift. Just because people use the same word to describe something else doesn't mean it no longer means what it meant previously.

[Captain Slow]

gay Firefox

a fire fox, that should be a fox on fire. if a fox is on fire why would it be gay? hmm :scratchch



*goes to open a can of spam*

[Crazy Harry]

@MAGGOT and others: :thumb:

[m374llic4]

There is just a terminology barrier.

I never ever ever drift whilst racing. I might get a bit of a slide (or a big slide), and I might vary my slip angle depending on circumstance, but I'll never drift. Drifting, for me, is all about 'look at me homies, I can make a car slide innit'. Drifters don't care about lap times or beating a clock. Racers do.

It really annoys me when I hold a slide around a corner and people say 'nice drift'. I WASN'T FECKING DRIFTING!!! I was trying to catch the person ahead/pull out a lead/beat a pb/qualify on pole. Not drift. If I was drifting I would slap lots of stickers on my car the wrong way round and speak in mumbles because I'm too shy and have tonnes of acne...

I was wondering when Mr.Knowitall would chime in with something absolutely ridiculous and stereotypical as usual. <3 Now that I think about it, its not even stereotypical. Its just stupid and ignorant.

Who cares who drifts, who doesnt, what drifting is, what it isnt. Mountian circuts are wanted. THAT IS ALL.

[Gabkicks]

This is just turning in to a "my dick is bigger then yours" thread about peoples supposed knowledge on history and racing.

The fact is people want mountian circuts. End of story.

Lock thread.


wtf lol the thread was getting interesting than you come in and make very strange post.

[jtr99]

Feel the love.

[m374llic4]

wtf lol the thread was getting interesting than you come in and make very strange post.

Merely an observational analysis. : )

[george_tsiros]

so... if we try to explain in detail what we mean with the words we say, we are "splitting hairs".

if we do not try to explain in detail what we mean with the words we say, there will be misunderstandings.

:scratchch


Somehow, i don't think you thought your cunning plan all the way through.

[Gabkicks]

Merely an observational analysis. : )

sorry i am ill and i keep making bad posts.:hidesbehi

[MAGGOT]

Mountian circuts are wanted. THAT IS ALL.

By less than half of the people that have voted

[Tweaker]

I haven't read this whole thread but.... all I have to say is....

Why not get the best of 2 kinds of motorsports and make tarmac rally stage courses? You can drift on those. You can enjoy some 'rally' driving. And you can race on them I guess. Maybe even tarmac stadium event courses.

Specific drift courses are not really needed. I know there are quite a few actual tracks made for drifting exclusively, but you could always just use a track which can be used for normal racing that has lots and lots of flowing turns (and would need to be a small track with fewer straights).

But really, I think the title of this thread throws people off. Having tracks made only for drifters is what makes it seem unfair to some of us. If you make a track that is suitable for a wide range of driving/racing styles, then nobody will complain :).

[frokki]

If you make a track that is suitable for a wide range of driving/racing styles, then nobody will complain :).That's a good point!

The stadium course would also serve karts if we get them some day :nod:

[Matrixi]

IMHO the vote (and the name of the thread) isn't about whether we want mountain/touge tracks or not, it's about wanting drift tracks (such as Sekia Hills (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8474483708550316131)). If we had a vote about would we want a mountain/touge track to LFS, I could easily imagine the voting numbers being reversed. I voted 'Not really' to this poll. Why? Because we don't really need drift tracks (like in the video above). All the tracks we have now are perfectly suitable for drifting and most of them offer many very fun corners to link after another. Of course mountain tracks are great and as Mr. Tweak said, they would cater both sides of motorsports, drifting and racing. However I very much doubt we are ever getting one. :(

There is however one really simple thing that the devs could do that would make lots of drifters in to happy campers, and that is increasing the maximum steering lock of the road cars back to 45 degrees like in the good 'ol S1 days.

I know, I know.. I've heard the same old story: "It wouldn't be realistic because no real life stock road cars don't have over 36 degrees of lock" but then again, how realistic is it to have so much car setting options in the road cars? The decreased steering lock has bugged me ever since S2. There is really no reason to decrease it with all these detailed car settings, as none of the cars we drive in LFS are even close to their stock roadcar form of real life.

Think about it. Increasing the max lock back to 45 would be a win-win situation. Racers wouldn't even notice it (which means no bitching about LFS being aimed for drifters) because they hardly use high steering locks, while drifters would get a more enjoyable driving experience with higher drift angles and more realistic drift car behaviour. That is because the very first thing any serious real life drifter does is to modify his car to allow more steering angle. Getting 45 degrees of lock from the old AE86 Corolla for example is a breeze, couple new parts to the steering system and voila. It's no more unrealistic than having the amount of car settings we currently have in our road cars. :shrug:

[george_tsiros]

That is because the very first thing any serious real life drifter does is to modify his car

BZZZT! no car modifications. (of this kind at least). they won't allow "drift tyres". why would they allow greater steering angles? they removed it in the first place.

[m374llic4]

BZZZT! no car modifications. (of this kind at least). they won't allow "drift tyres". why would they allow greater steering angles? they removed it in the first place.

maybe because drift tires arent actually real, they are to some extent, but you dont go to the store and say "give me some drift tires". where as you buy tein tie rods and ends with the steering lock spacer you get increased angle. Which is a real thing. saying no modifications is stupid. The GTR's are full out mods to their slower counter parts.

[Gabkicks]

BZZZT! no car modifications. (of this kind at least). they won't allow "drift tyres". why would they allow greater steering angles? they removed it in the first place.

lol did you read his whole post?

[Matrixi]

BZZZT! no car modifications. (of this kind at least). they won't allow "drift tyres". why would they allow greater steering angles? they removed it in the first place.
It isn't any more of a car modification than the adjustable suspension units that we currently have. What kind of a stock roadcar has so many suspension, steering, transmission and differential change possibilities? I sure as hell would love to know, I'd buy one right away!

If you would bother doing some research before posting absolute nonsense, you would know that the reason why the road car steering angle was reduced by the devs in S2 was to make it more realistic stock road car like.

PS. Care to elaborate what the hell are "drift tyres"?

[george_tsiros]

"more realistic stock road car like."

that is why they removed it. if they wanted it, they would have kept it. that is enough reason to expect it remains removed. And considering that of all the crazy tweaking that can be done with the geometry, they limited *this* specific tweaking, it must mean they are rather picky about it.

p.s.: hell if i know, but it says in the suggestions log that they won't be seen in LFS.

[Blowtus]

all they did to the steering was set it to realistic levels - same as they have endevoured to do for the other settings. Not sure what makes you think it was some sort of specific 'anti drift' move...

[Matrixi]

that is why they removed it. if they wanted it, they would have kept it. that is enough reason to expect it remains removed. And considering that of all the crazy tweaking that can be done with the geometry, they limited *this* specific tweaking, it must mean they are rather picky about it.
Sigh. Knowing about the easyness of adding more steering lock to your car requires a bit interest and knowledge about drifting, which I'm guessing the devs didn't really care about at the time. I highly doubt that any racer would be interested in adding more steering lock to his car, because he won't need it unless he will make a mistake and starts to oversteer and has to countersteer to prevent spinning. The work of adding more steering lock is pretty worthless in the world of racing. It's just plain dumb saying that having more steering lock would be unrealistic, considering the currently unrealistic amount of settings we have available to tweak.

p.s.: hell if i know, but it says in the suggestions log that they won't be seen in LFS.
Of course they won't be seen in LFS, because they don't exist.

[george_tsiros]

It's just plain dumb saying that having more steering lock would be unrealistic, considering the currently unrealistic amount of settings we have available to tweak.

so... which direction should we go...

more realism?

less realism?

hm... :scratchch

well, greater lock angles are not unrealistic, per se, but they are not seen in the world of racing. this might surprise you, but i am indeed interested in drifting, i'm getting better at it, actually, but that wasn't the reason i know that the modification is easy.

[Matrixi]

so... which direction should we go...
more realism?
less realism?
hm... :scratchch
That decision is up to the devs in the end. I'm guessing that atleast by the time of S3, the current road cars are either stripped from their high tweakability options OR they will get more options to tweak at (such as separate high and low speed suspension damping, wheel track etc). I personally favour the later, more unrealistic option in this case. Tweaking the cars in LFS is fun, even if it may be unrealistic, it's fun.

well, greater lock angles are not unrealistic, per se, but they are not seen in the world of racing. this might surprise you, but i am indeed interested in drifting, i'm getting better at it, actually, but that wasn't the reason i know that the modification is easy.
I know high steering lock angles aren't usual in the world of racing, that's what I said in my previous post. :) As said before, LFS is a racing simulator and having more steering lock would be a win-win situation and do no harm to anyone. Or do you disagree?

[m374llic4]

I just cant wait till its finally finshed, and it can be up to us, with modification abilities and track editors. Then threads that get no where like this can stop, because i could just go make a mountian pass track, and a mod with increased steering angle. Soon enough I suppose.

[Jamexing]

Face it, curent levels of steering lock in S2 are far from unrealistic. At maximum lock, all road car based vehicles in LFS have turning circles pretty similiar to RL counterparts anyway. Just try the TBO class cars and none of them have turning circles that deviate wildly from what one could reasonably expect.

There is simply no good reason to change max lock angles currently available.

[XCNuse]

I just cant wait till its finally finshed, and it can be up to us, with modification abilities and track editors. Then threads that get no where like this can stop, because i could just go make a mountian pass track, and a mod with increased steering angle. Soon enough I suppose.
..dont ever count on it

[Jamexing]

The poll was about drift only tracks, not mountain passes. If this thread was about a mountain pass style track like the Japanses stages of the WRC, the poll results could be massively different.

A mountain pass style tarmac track is a MUCH better idea, since it satisfies pretty much everyone from drifters to circuit racers to serious rally drivers (like ME!:D ).

A little poll:

Would you guys like me to start a real poll on a mountain pass style track (not this drift only track madness)? If I get 3 agreements or more, I'll gladly start a new thread on mounain passes, NOT DRIFT ONLY. :)

[m374llic4]

I

[Blowtus]

you mean like this thread, Jamexing?
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=6970&highlight=mountain

[Jamexing]

Wow! With that kind of attitude, no wonder we're losing license sales. :(

Guys, it's better to welcome people then act like a bunch of jerks (I get too much of that in RL anyway). It generates a much more positive, welcoming and productive atmosphere. If I read that thread before I got my S2 license, I would have just forgotten about LFS because this community is overpopulated by jerks. :(

Downhill == wrong way? When would you guys learn that the earth is NOT FLAT? Seesh.

This is an improvement suggestions thread, not a "pick on the demo racer" thread.

[Crazy Harry]

Just want to say: I´m really happy with the Car Park. Millions of track combinations possible. :thumb:

[Fischfix]

but there should be a sand/graval/grass possibility for the carpark as well...

[zetecr]

Just want to say: I´m really happy with the Car Park. Millions of track combinations possible. :thumb:
Millions of FLAT tracks...

[Crazy Harry]

Millions of FLAT tracks...


That´s the only bad thing. :schwitz: