Too Many Servers?

[5th Earth]

I know, this sounds like sacrelige--more servers is always better, right? We want LFS to be popular!

...But 90% of the servers are empty. Lots of servers is okay, but if the player base isn't there, it just spreads people thin and no one ever sees anyone else online. People are always complaining about how few servers have people in them, how they join an empty server and race for 3 hours without seeing a single other player... Clearly there's a problem.

Basically, my theory is that if we had fewer servers, the average server would have more people in it. Simple. I know having lots of servers around the world is good, because it ensures players around the world can all get good connections, but I see lots of "server teams" that run 3, 4, or more servers, all from the same location, and these servers are the ones that seem to be empty the most. I know you have nothing but good intentions, but we just don't need you.

Currently it seems like we usually have around 375 public S2 servers online at any given time. Assuming 15 player limits on average, that's 5625 players that can be supported. Our typical daily peak player load is only around the 600 mark--even if players spread themselves as widely as possible, that's only 1 or 2 people per server. Even with the all-time peak, around 1,000 racers, the average is less than 3 racers per server, and less than 1/5 the total capacity. In addition, the nighttime low of 100-200 players means there are actually more servers than players--even in the widest spread, the majority of servers are completely empty.

So, if you run multiple servers--consider shutting some of them down. I don't want to tell the individual servers to shut down, but if you're running more than one, I'd personally ask that you cut back to just 1 or 2. It may actually be better for the community in the long run.

[Lola Popeye]

it wont be as big of a problem if all the servers are running different cars/configs. Which helps give more variety for people, but i do agree theres alot of empty servers around.

[Rumiko]

Scawen already encouraged people not to use all-cars servers, but many people use them anyway. Seems like they are not interested in racing and just want to play around with some cars (which is OK, considering they payed for this game, so they are free to do as they like).

[ColeusRattus]

I agree, it's not only the number of servers that cause a problem, but also the lack of proper server configurations.

We have tons of GTR/FO8-Servers. Which is fine, as both are quite popular.

But then we have tons of servers with no car restrictions. And these are usually empty, as they will not allow proper racing. So, these servers could be reconfiguired to only support certain classes (even if it is MRT only, it won't get less visitors than "none") or should be shut down.

EDIT:if you own a server and want to drive with different cars, you could always change the allowed cars, if you are admin...

[Blackout]

There is lots of servers which doesnt allow players change the track and its on default Blackwood and thats annoying if car allowed are what you rarely find like FZ50, or roadcars in general. And theres massive amount of empty servers which has Blackwood and all cars, thats stypid. Why couldnt first joining player change the cars allowed? Or option to servers make preset car combos to choose. That would prevent silly combos made by first joining player, it could be free selection too. But I doubt that servers which arent taken care now would even use that option. But it would ne nice, you could make the race you want.

[Vain]

I think the situation is quite okay. In fact, I wouldn't change anything.
When I want to play I search for an empty server with the car class I want to race, set up the track I want to race on and start racing. After 5 minutes people begin to join and 15 minutes later we have a nice group of players.
I never join nearly full servers. These usually only attract those die-hard "I want to take you over NOW because I was momentarily 0.3km/h faster than you!"-drivers. At least that is my experience.
Also it's much easier to drive with three other drivers than with 19 other drivers in turn 1.

Vain

[Bob Smith]

I wouldn't say too many servers is a problem really, you can just filter out the empty servers, and if you can't find what you want, you can join and empty one. But then it isn't empty anymore, and will appear when other people have filtered out empty servers. Basically, we just need more people online, and for people to be more experimental. Reversed tracks, remember those? Treaded tyres? There are miracles waiting to happen.

[XCNuse]

ya but still its a waste

i mean last night i forgot to turn the empty filter back on... 300 servers were running.. 20 of which had people in them.. now honestly people .. common, whats the point

and that doesnt even include private servers!

[cannonfodder]

If you look at the population history http://www.lfsworld.net/?win=hosts&whichTab=licensed_history&t=182 you can see that since the first month or two after the release of S2 alpha, the max/min number of online racers has been slowly but fairly steadily decreasing(it's more apparent with the minimum numbers). Meanwhile the number of available servers has increased at about the same rate! So theoretically you have a smaller and smaller population getting more and more spread out.

From what I've seen on the server list though, people tend to congregate in a few "popular" servers. However, I do see a lot of all-car servers with groups of 2-5 tooling around. So maybe Scawen is right about that kind of server. I've never run a server myself, are all cars turned on by default? One thing I know about most people is that they're lazy, so maybe the default setting should be a class like TBO or GTR.

[speedfreak227]

i've had some INCREDIBLE races on all car servers in the past. i was using the mrt and some other guy was using the equivelant of a toyota supra street car. (don't rememebr the LFS name of it)

i think we were on blackwood. we had nearly identical lap times but he'd roast me on the strights and i'd roast him inthe corners.

speedfreak227

[Stregone]

If you look at the population history http://www.lfsworld.net/?win=hosts&whichTab=licensed_history&t=182 you can see that since the first month or two after the release of S2 alpha, the max/min number of online racers has been slowly but fairly steadily decreasing(it's more apparent with the minimum numbers). Meanwhile the number of available servers has increased at about the same rate! So theoretically you have a smaller and smaller population getting more and more spread out.

From what I've seen on the server list though, people tend to congregate in a few "popular" servers. However, I do see a lot of all-car servers with groups of 2-5 tooling around. So maybe Scawen is right about that kind of server. I've never run a server myself, are all cars turned on by default? One thing I know about most people is that they're lazy, so maybe the default setting should be a class like TBO or GTR.

People aren't getting spread out. You don't see many servers with only a couple people on it. For very long anyways, either more people join them or they move on and try a different server.

[felplacerad]

What if scawen changes the default server config from all cars to, lets say ... TBO, maybe the server admins will be more willing to look over the cars configuration.

just a shot at decreasing the allcars servers ...

[Racer Y]

hi. LOL i think the problem with so many empty servers, is because so many members are also server admins. Kinda like All chiefs and no braves.
And since this is a real giving community, people that have the means will usually provide a server to let the rest of us play on.

Someone said theat the number of online playrs has decreases since the initial release date of S-2...
Notice the amounts of bad driver/wrecker complaints also have decreased too?

I do notice that WHen i have the server locator only look for populated servers, some times I'll see three servers, when I switch it to include empty ones too, it increases to like almost 200. I don't think the servers that allow all cars are such a problem. In fact, it's a good way to learn different cars and how they interact and get set ups for a variety of cars from people.
No, the problem is having like 5 Aston National- GTR servers. I can understand
having two servers cause the track/cars are very popular.

Actually the more I think about it, it seems the problem is that only very few people play LFS in comparison to Counterstrike and the LFS members seem to be spread all over the planet, so only a relative few players are in the same time zones. If you want more life in the servers, you have to bring more life to it. That or get everyone to change their sleeping habits :)
LOL get everyone in North and South America to work jobs on the 2nd shift.

LOL Xcnuse would have to go to night school...

[geeman1]

I think empty servers is all about LFSs different nature compared to other online games. LFS is not about going to a server and having 15 minutes of fun. LFS is about training to a big race. In LFS you jsut can't go to a server and play for few minutes and still win. You have to train offline or play on the same server long. This why most of the LFS players don't play 5 lap races on a public server. This makes LFS servers empty.

[Cue-Ball]

I really don't see how "too many" servers could be a problem at all. I think Bob said it perfectly. People don't join empty servers. Once one person joins, it's not empty any longer.

I think Racer Y covered a good point too. There just aren't that many people who play LFS. There are generally under 1000 players online at any given time. One thousand players isn't much when you spread them all over the world and throughout the different time zones. I bet there aren't more than a couple dozen players from North America online during the times I play. In fact, I don't think I've ever played with more than 8 people online. ever. There just aren't enough players who are close enough to get a decent ping, who play at the same time as me, and who want to drive the same cars that I do.

You could shut down 9/10ths of the servers and it won't change the simple fact that relatively few people play this game. I guess that's one of the bad things about having such a niche hobby.

[Tweaker]

Only server I see and have played on that is using a correct configuration and car/track class is the DigiServ racing one. Admins are around too.

Servers like that are the most fun, and around this time of day people are playing in it. There are too many empty servers because (like what some here have mentioned):

-All cars are enabled
-Users cannot select their own track (restricted)
-Not enough people are playing anymore! Or at least that I see. :( (A patch would certaintly fill up the servers :really: )
-Oval FO8 combination, getting overused now.....
-You are in the North American timezone and we hardly get anybody playing at our times. Sadly, the interest isn't around for NA drivers, don't know why.
-The veteran drivers never play online as much anymore, or not at all!
-I remember more people playing S1, at least in our timezone, I cannot see why it has died off for S2 :(

:shrug:

[Hyperactive]

I see it that people want to race on tracks they know and with cars that they have been using for some time already.

I drive mostly the gtr-class cars and f08 and sometimes the RA and fz50 but that's it. Of course it would be interesting to have a race in FOX at FE black reversed, but I have no experience of this combo. And if there is one server hosting this combo, I'd need some 30+ laps to get in touch with it to be at least enough competitive and not just a moving obstacle. And by the time I look for this server I notice just that there isn't one alive anymore.

In LFS you need a lot of laps to be competitive and learning a new track isn't just a piece of a cake. So joining a server that has the maximum limit of players set to 6 and only 1 online...with some weird combo...no


I remember the first times in AS3 with the fzr - just pure frustration, hatred and anger to learn the car :). But now that I can actually drive the car/track combo it feels so great! To go through that again and then notice that there aren't any servers using that combo...makes me sad. Currently I am practising the Ky long with fzr and I can't get my tyres last for a lap (I can do more than 10 in AS3 with fzr using R2s). And I've done almost 100 laps offline in ky long :). So I don't even feel fast enough to join! Or should I start practising online then...hmm...


...And it is always a thrill to start at the back of the pack in a race when there are 20 people in front of me! And then drive slowly to get pass the 1st corner pileup unharmed :(

[Gunn]

Looking at the large number of private servers one could be forgiven for concluding that many racers prefer not to join public servers. I know quite a few racers who race almost exclusively on private servers. Until public servers become more organised and serious about conducting actual races I think there will be a certain proportion that will prefer to race privately with trusted friends. Everybody likes to have the ability to practice or play around online but many people are seeking a proper race. That means one class of car (or close, mixed classes), more than just the same old familiar tracks over and over again, and perhaps some races with a decent number of laps. I see so many servers with 3 lap races or 5 lap races and I think this discourages some racers. Once the inevitable 412 restarts have occurred, 3 laps is quite an anti-climax. :sleep1:

As Tweak has eluded to, the best servers are the ones that are up at the same time every day (or always up), are well set up for car choice and track variety, and manned by an admin regularly. More of these would serve the community well.

[J.B.]

Having the option of fixed setups, which would be easy, drivable setups, would encourage people more to use a greater variety of track/car combos. Maybe this would help to get people on the empty servers.

When I look for a race, I always look for a car track combo that I know well and have a setup for. If already having a setup wasn't an issue, the amount of servers I could choose from would be much higher and I wouldn't end up on the same combos all the time..

[Sunday Driver]

LfS has a luxury problem. Sure, it isn't compareable to the numbers of players of Half-Life, but I know some car racing games, where I would be happy if there were 5-10 drivers online at the same time and only one server running.

Nevertheless I would appreciate it, if there were 2-3 "arcarde style" servers with track rotation (but no car rotation) and short turn races (5-7 laps) running. Allowed should be all cars up to TBO class and maybe the LX4.

I think that would be real fun and would appeal to many newbies, in particular if they used to play arcarde racer the last past years.

[nism0]

It's good they have lots of servers, but what LFS really needs, is a FASTER server list.
It takes 2 minutes to get 350 servers on LFS, but I could get 9,000 servers on Counter Strike in that same time.
PLEASE DEVS :(

[Infiniti]

I find myself playing on demo servers at night here in the states when the s2 servers are all foriegn, i dont know alot of german or many of the other languages out there. But the demo servers, I can find some decent races sometimes, and it lets me drive the gtt which is one of my favorite non gtr class car! Maybe they could set limits too how many servers created, and/ or te devs could pay the extra buck and set up offical servers, make a US Official with tbo class and maybe one other class or two, then a german official, and so on. that way it will be balanced between official and public servers might help but there still is no way to control how many ppl are on at different times. :(

[Tweaker]

It's good they have lots of servers, but what LFS really needs, is a FASTER server list.
It takes 2 minutes to get 350 servers on LFS, but I could get 9,000 servers on Counter Strike in that same time.
PLEASE DEVS :(

Erm, you must have no filters enabled? Scanning the entire list is not required, it is best to set it to ones where people are playing and you will get about 15-70 filled servers (depending on what time of day you want to race) refreshed in about 10 secs.

Counterstrike/Steam can refresh servers quick indeed, but think about the resources and money they have to make that happen (ie powerful servers all over the world, content providers, etc). For all I know, the master server which gives us our server list is just a computer hosted at Scawen's house or something :D (I can't confirm this).

[Gunn]

Erm, you must have no filters enabled? Scanning the entire list is not required, it is best to set it to ones where people are playing and you will get about 15-70 filled servers (depending on what time of day you want to race) refreshed in about 10 secs.By scanning the entire list you can see all servers that are available, I always scan the whole list so I can decide the best place for me to race. Filters are fine if you are looking for a specific type of server but when you just want to see what's out there you need to see it all. Sorting by connection speed would be the handiest filter of all. Currently I have to wait for all of the European and American servers to refresh before I get anything local with a decent ping. I assume this is due to the geographical distance each server is from the Master server. If I could filter out all pings over 200 (75% of the server list) it would speed things up nicely.

[Racer Y]

By scanning the entire list you can see all servers that are available, I always scan the whole list so I can decide the best place for me to race. Filters are fine if you are looking for a specific type of server but when you just want to see what's out there you need to see it all. Sorting by connection speed would be the handiest filter of all. Currently I have to wait for all of the European and American servers to refresh before I get anything local with a decent ping. I assume this is due to the geographical distance each server is from the Master server. If I could filter out all pings over 200 (75% of the server list) it would speed things up nicely.

Gunn, You can probably get away with as high as 230... I've played on the optus servers and the Pacifica servers and sometimes they get that high of a ping, but there's really not any noticeable lag issues.
I don't filter the server list by car type. Besides, when I go online, I usually don't have any idea what car I wanna use. Well I prefer the RAC, but servers that offer that are few and far between.
LOL most of ther servers are GTR and for a change of pace you can join a GTR server. And when you get bored with that, there's always a GTR server to change things up with :)

[Gunn]

Gunn, You can probably get away with as high as 230... I've played on the optus servers and the Pacifica servers and sometimes they get that high of a ping, but there's really not any noticeable lag issues.
I don't filter the server list by car type. Besides, when I go online, I usually don't have any idea what car I wanna use. Well I prefer the RAC, but servers that offer that are few and far between.
LOL most of ther servers are GTR and for a change of pace you can join a GTR server. And when you get bored with that, there's always a GTR server to change things up with :)300 is playable in some cases and in S1 I even used to join a few mates at 400. But I grow tired of lag every time someone pits or joins so I am looking closer to home these days.

[Coopz]

Only 68 players online atm... man this game seems to have lost its fanbase?
I haven't played it for a few months, little dissapointed last night to only find 2 servers with a handful of players in them:(

[Gunn]

Only 68 players online atm... man this game seems to have lost its fanbase?
I haven't played it for a few months, little dissapointed last night to only find 2 servers with a handful of players in them:(That's funny, I played most of the night with several racers and was kept busy until 3 am.

[ajp71]

Seem to be a good number of servers whenever I go on in the evening, normally a few full servers and a server with over 10 racers for each car class every night and normally only 2 populated oval servers. With the smaller numbers and more oval servers I guess there isn't much variety at other times?

[Boris Lozac]

"All cars" servers are really not helping LFS! What is that?! Isn't it better to have only GTR's, or only XFG, XRG, XRGT, and so on.. I don't know why GTI is so unpopular online? I had some GREAT runs the other day, with 6, 7 people running GTI at Aston club or cadet, don't remember.. I would really like to see these ALL CARS servers turning into one class servers..

[Tweaker]

Only 68 players online atm... man this game seems to have lost its fanbase?
I haven't played it for a few months, little dissapointed last night to only find 2 servers with a handful of players in them:(
Yeah, the fanbase has dwindled down to a very small amount at our timezone mind you... The game 'explodes' of players online in European timezones, just look at the online graph. The lowest point of players is around North American times, then it slowly rises up with a few Aussies here and there... then the Europeans start to play... then back down it goes... it is just a never ending rollercoaster.

Seriously now, North America REALLY needs to get the ball rollin' on playing online and mentioning the game to people. I also think a lot more NA magazines and game review columns should focus on LFS. With no word about it over here, it is just the same ol' people playing online and getting bored. If I ever race online, it has to be either during lunch time/midday or very late in the evening past noon.

Also, if you see 1 person in a server (like 1/16 players), JOIN IT! Don't just join servers that have tons of people in it. People DO join servers that have a few people in them, then they start to grow. It is just a matter of patience and staying in the server while waiting for people to join up.

[StanleyCarter]

Sorting by connection speed would be the handiest filter of all.

couldn't agree more.

here in Malaysia we tend to lag at most of the servers, we get best pings from the nearby countries, namely Australia. but for most of the other european or US servers, I'd be lagging quite much.

It's painful when you can't even have a decent driving fun with your best buddies at Poland, or in the US. :shrug:

[speedfreak227]

couldn't agree more.

here in Malaysia we tend to lag at most of the servers, we get best pings from the nearby countries, namely Australia. but for most of the other european or US servers, I'd be lagging quite much.

It's painful when you can't even have a decent driving fun with your best buddies at Poland, or in the US. :shrug:

at least you've got Alex Yoong :)

[Tweaker]

Only 68 players online atm... man this game seems to have lost its fanbase?
I haven't played it for a few months, little dissapointed last night to only find 2 servers with a handful of players in them:(

And on a side note. Normally when we get patches for the game, the amount of players online kicks back up again. It takes about 2 months for our playing to die down (as we can see), because we don't have a patch. If we had a patch right now that fixes the main problems, everyone would be very happy and be playing online... something new to try. But as we see now... it doesn't look like a crucial fixer-upper patch is coming :( :Kick_Can_

I know we waited long enough before S2 was released... S1 started to get boring because there were no patches in that dead-period either. I'd start to get worried if we went on another month here without a patch... :faint:

[farcar]

Just a quick bitch about 2 Aussie servers that run in the evening here; Optusnet#1 and Optusnet#2. In the Aussie evenings, there aren't a huge ammount of populated servers as it is, let alone a variety.

Here is what they were running last night.

Optusnet#1 - BLGP Track - FOX
Optusnet#2 - BLGP Track - FOX/FO8
Each server was about 1/3 full when I was online.

I understand that FOX racing is popular, but there is absolutely no need to have both servers running virtually the same thing when they're less than half full. I'm sure there would have been at leat a dozen or so other racers online at the time who would have preferred something different.

I went and watched telly instead :(

[Rotary]

Mention something over here in the LFS section (http://arse.norbtech.com/phpBB/) as many of the blokes there have admin for the Optus Servers. I can see the frustration in that, however, currently the AAL is holding a FOX league so that could be part reason to the mostly FOX servers. Are their only two Optus servers? I forget been ages since I last looked.

[farcar]

Mention something over here in the LFS section (http://arse.norbtech.com/phpBB/) as many of the blokes there have admin for the Optus Servers. I can see the frustration in that, however, currently the AAL is holding a FOX league so that could be part reason to the mostly FOX servers. Are their only two Optus servers? I forget been ages since I last looked.

Thanks, I might do that.
I was only looking at populated servers, so there might be more than 2 overall. I'll check out the empty ones tonight to see if there's some variety there.

Cheers.

[Pablo.CZ]

"All cars" servers are really not helping LFS!
...
That's true! Sometimes I've only 1 hour for playing LFS and it took me over 1/2h to find server with TBO coz most of servers are "all cars" and I must find out what cars people have. And when I finally find adequate server, after 5 minutes join someone with FV8 (coz it's not restricted) and spoil race...
Result is that sometimes instead going online I hotlaping or doing something different than playing LFS.

[StanleyCarter]

at least you've got Alex Yoong :)

what does he has to do with server? or connection issue? or even LFS?

if only he plays LFS as well... lol

anyways, I usually find the most players online during the weekends, if I play LFS early morning, I'll be meeting up with players mostly from the US, during afternoon or early evening, some of the australian servers could be packed as well.

[Hooligan[UK]

Having the option of fixed setups, which would be easy, drivable setups, would encourage people more to use a greater variety of track/car combos. Maybe this would help to get people on the empty servers.

When I look for a race, I always look for a car track combo that I know well and have a setup for. If already having a setup wasn't an issue, the amount of servers I could choose from would be much higher and I wouldn't end up on the same combos all the time..

Good point,the game gets very samey and dare I say it boring,with the same cars/tracks all the time.I've gone from playing every night, to 1-2 times a week.

This would make quite a big change,but quite a ballsy one if the devs done it.

[DodgeRacer]

Only 68 players online atm... man this game seems to have lost its fanbase?
I haven't played it for a few months, little dissapointed last night to only find 2 servers with a handful of players in them:(

please remember that some people have to sleep at night, so there may not be as many people on during odd hours (primarily in N/A and europe

[spoop]

There needs to be "block all cars server" option. I play in north america but i have to join right after i get home from school to have a decent number of people online. More varied servers would be nice, I have driven some nice reverse tracks.

[Gunn]

Just a quick bitch about 2 Aussie servers that run in the evening here; Optusnet#1 and Optusnet#2. In the Aussie evenings, there aren't a huge ammount of populated servers as it is, let alone a variety.

Here is what they were running last night.

Optusnet#1 - BLGP Track - FOX
Optusnet#2 - BLGP Track - FOX/FO8
Each server was about 1/3 full when I was online.

I understand that FOX racing is popular, but there is absolutely no need to have both servers running virtually the same thing when they're less than half full. I'm sure there would have been at leat a dozen or so other racers online at the time who would have preferred something different.

I went and watched telly instead :(You could go to the Optus Games Forum and track down wabz, he is usually quite helpful and willing to listen to suggestions.

[B2B@300]

And on a side note. Normally when we get patches for the game, the amount of players online kicks back up again. It takes about 2 months for our playing to die down (as we can see), because we don't have a patch. If we had a patch right now that fixes the main problems, everyone would be very happy and be playing online... something new to try. But as we see now... it doesn't look like a crucial fixer-upper patch is coming :( :Kick_Can_

I know we waited long enough before S2 was released... S1 started to get boring because there were no patches in that dead-period either. I'd start to get worried if we went on another month here without a patch... :faint:

ROFL sounds like you've got a patch (drug) problem m8, seriously is there a rehab centre for lfs patch adicts in the USA :D

[Tweaker]

Well I fully support the fact that people play this game actively, and right now, it just seems like it is losing interest to some people. You'd hate to see people rarely playing your favorite online wouldn't you? Seriously, the only thing I see that can change all of this is to have a patch or something that gets people back online. :shrug: North America and Australia are the lowest points on the online graph, and I used to see more than we have now playing online.

Just remember when S2 was released, playing online / choosing a server was great, loads of people playing and it lasted for several weeks. It just feels like some things have changed with people's opinions or it is influence from other games.

[ColeusRattus]

There needs to be "block all cars server" option. I play in north america but i have to join right after i get home from school to have a decent number of people online. More varied servers would be nice, I have driven some nice reverse tracks.

IIRC you can "block" all car servers by filtering out servers with an exotic car you don't want to drive anyways. So usually filtering out the MRT5 (a pity somehow) will filter out all servers running it, including the "all cars" servers. and as this car is rarely mixed with other cars/classes, there are neraly no other servers locked out.
Then again, it often helps to filter out empty servers. Then the percentage of "all cars" servers is very small.

EDIT: And concerning the player-gaps in NA and AUS: Perhapswith the patch to support japanese, the pacific-gap will be somewhat filled. Hopefully.

[Racer Y]

You know there are a lot of things that are different playing now days as compared to last year. It was laid back, and it was fun. Everyone knew each other. There was rarely any massive restarting and very few instances of banning or kicking.
When the S-2 version came out all that went out the window. the moment the
Alpha version was released, Hordes of people familiar with Console type games
entered with their keyboards and mouses, ready to spin out and blame others at a moment's notice. Thankfully, most of those types have moved on to ruin
somebody else's day. But they did manage to cause some damage while they were here. Alot of people got put off by all the wrecking, the restarts, the insults and the general F*** You attitude that was happening.

Another thing to "factor" in. There really ain't a whole lot of people interested in racing games, much less hardcore sims to begin with. So I imagine a big chunk of the people that aren't around are playing... rFactor.
If those people like that game, then they're gone. If not, they'll get bored with it after playing their money's worth of it and start showing back up.
LOL we should vote to ban them on sight for ... Sedition.

Tweak, you keep going off about needing patches..... uh... a patch foooor....? I don't see where a patch that fixed a mispelling in Romanian
would really be such a big draw to the kids in Iowa.

Or are you talking about a patch like the one that the MRT came in?
Now THAT would do something. It would also bring back alot of those
"other" types too.

I would say that if the devs are serious about pushing this game. I mean REALLY pushing it, they ought to at least hire on a Marketing Consultant....
But when you look at the fact LFS is made for a Niche market and that
the overall method of purchase and delivery of the product is strictly
online only, that would really be just a waste of money.

What could be done though is the Devs breaking down and buying a full page ad (can you get a 1/2 page?) in PC Gamer. Yes, an ad. Not to wait for somebody to come along and review it. If enough interest is generated from the ad, then a review will eventually happen.

My advice for ad placement would be for March. That would be
about the time the average gamer is getting burnt out on whatever
they got for X-mas and looking for something else. And that's also the
time tax refund checks start appearing here in the US.

I dunno... just a thought :)

[Tweaker]

No a patch to fix the most common and obvious issues in the game......... specifically these issues:

-Raised nose/aero bug specifically
-Almost complete Aero loss while in a turn

Because of this, racing close to each other is just not fun or possible even.

-Car balancing
-Cars with very snappy oversteer (like the RA, everyone was dying to drive this car, until they drove it...)

Of course a patch with a new car or addition would get people playing... but that is far too much for ask for. I want the racing online to be more enjoyable with the race cars... which is why I have been racing on almost all road car servers nowadays.

But you see what I mean?

[farcar]

What could be done though is the Devs breaking down and buying a full page ad (can you get a 1/2 page?) in PC Gamer. Yes, an ad. Not to wait for somebody to come along and review it. If enough interest is generated from the ad, then a review will eventually happen.

My advice for ad placement would be for March. That would be
about the time the average gamer is getting burnt out on whatever
they got for X-mas and looking for something else. And that's also the
time tax refund checks start appearing here in the US.

I'd be more inclined to get the game reviewed more. From my powers of deduction, the game is good and should get good reviews. Good reviews are free advertising. I see game reviews as a solution to the no doubt prohibitive cost of advertising.

I'm not sure what the procedure if for getting IGN for example to review the game is, or if they've already been approached, or if the game has already been widely reviewed and I just haven't read them. Someone else might be able to answer that.

I do see a problem however in that the game is not 'finished'. Maybe a lot of reviewers are waiting until the fulll version of S3 is out before they review. They don't realise that the game is fully functional as is it is, and that future releases/patches are what many other developers would release as sequels. Although the S1 -S3 evolution is true guage on the game's development, perhaps it is not the best thing for marketing it.

Getting back on topic, I'd like to see more LFS reviews by journos to get the game some more exposure and help fill up the servers.

[Racer Y]

No a patch to fix the most common and obvious issues in the game......... specifically these issues:

-Raised nose/aero bug specifically
-Almost complete Aero loss while in a turn

Because of this, racing close to each other is just not fun or possible even.

-Car balancing
-Cars with very snappy oversteer (like the RA, everyone was dying to drive this car, until they drove it...)

Of course a patch with a new car or addition would get people playing... but that is far too much for ask for. I want the racing online to be more enjoyable with the race cars... which is why I have been racing on almost all road car servers nowadays.

But you see what I mean?


I don't see how a patch with those things would really impact the online dilema to be honest. Sure those are nice things, but......

I never noticed the Areo loss on corners.been too busy trying to notice not wrecking lol
And I don't really know what you mean by car balancing, unless you mean to
make the RB4 and the FXR more competitive with their respected counter parts.
Also, as far as the RAC goes. that car is just fine. it's the set ups that come with it in the game that need work. I got two "aftermarket" set ups
one for street, one for rally and that car is a blast to use. It's still
really hard to learn, but it can be done

You mentioned only going to road car servers. Yeah, the road cars rule :)
But you're going there for reasons other than the issues you want patched.
You're probably going there because A) it's fun and B) certain "elements" prefer to act up in the GTR servers, mostly leaving the TBO and LRF servers alone.

I would like to see a patch that brings down the nose on the F08 and forces realistic set ups on the oval, but I still don't see it really affecting anything
as far as getting decent server populations during our time zones.

[ColeusRattus]

I'd be more inclined to get the game reviewed more. From my powers of deduction, the game is good and should get good reviews. Good reviews are free advertising. I see game reviews as a solution to the no doubt prohibitive cost of advertising.

I'm not sure what the procedure if for getting IGN for example to review the game is, or if they've already been approached, or if the game has already been widely reviewed and I just haven't read them. Someone else might be able to answer that.

I do see a problem however in that the game is not 'finished'. Maybe a lot of reviewers are waiting until the fulll version of S3 is out before they review. They don't realise that the game is fully functional as is it is, and that future releases/patches are what many other developers would release as sequels. Although the S1 -S3 evolution is true guage on the game's development, perhaps it is not the best thing for marketing it.

Getting back on topic, I'd like to see more LFS reviews by journos to get the game some more exposure and help fill up the servers.


I too agree that reviews are the way to go, as advertising tends to be quite pricey. But as long as LsF calls itself "Alpha" noone will review it. Reviews are usually written about full versions, and, even though LsF is fully functional, it is not yet the final version of S2. Another thing are previews though...

So the best way to go for the devs IMHO is to hook up with IGN/Gamespy shortly before the release of "S2 Full" and offer them information about the features which have not been published before in any form (including forums and so on). Exclusive stories is T3H SeX0rZ for media.

Coming from the Red Orchestra community, they did another thing which boosted it's fame (allbeit the step was largely critisized in the community...): They made an agreement upon paying Gamespy subscribers could download the newest releases 24 hours before they would be available for the rest of us. Even though I doubt that many subscribers dled it within this 24h (or that many subscribed extra to dl the release earlier, for that matter), the fact that it was prominently (text and picture) on the fileplanet main page for at least this one single day sure resulted in hundreds, if not thousands, of downloads which else would not have been made.
Still, not anyone who is going to dl it will be a "welcome addition to the community" (enough wreckers on demo servers already) , or even stay with the game, but the community would grow nevertheless.

BTW, wasn't this topic about servers? :D

[tristancliffe]

It does happen - when a patch comes out online play increases for a month or so (especially for larger patches). It always used to happen in S1, and I can't see why it would be different in S2.

[Bob Smith]

The devs have said they won't actually advertise the game until S3. However once S2 is final I think it's a fair compeititor to other racing sims and should be reviewed by all that can review.

Rattus: an interesting idea, I can imagine some people getting annoyed, but when it's for greater good (I mean, if there are more people about, we'll have more fun, and in a month all would be forgotten anyway).

[Racer Y]

I too agree that reviews are the way to go, as advertising tends to be quite pricey. But as long as LsF calls itself "Alpha" noone will review it. Reviews are usually written about full versions, and, even though LsF is fully functional, it is not yet the final version of S2. Another thing are previews though...


BTW, wasn't this topic about servers? :D

yeah it was, but this is still related as it's a bull session to try and determine how to increase the gaming population :)

Uhhh... getting back to Advertising and reviews....
Well it takes money to make money, so advertising should be done at
sometime. I honestly think it can be done now - Right Now.
Have some sort a catchy phrase like,
"Sure it's only alpha. You couldn't handle the full version" with some hot chick in a racing outfit and screen shots of the game.


But anyways, it enough interest could be generated, then LFS WOULD get reviews whether it was alpha, beta, delta or gamma. Because if it
generates enough interest, people would buy the magazine to read the review
And the only way you're gonna get that interest sparked is with $$$

The downside to this is, if that was done and the interest (demand) for the game got going really strong, there would be a lot of pressure on the devs
to crank out more patches and updates, they'd have to shut the forum down due to all the threads and posts whining for S-3 and Lord knows what else.
Plus it's one thing to be able to deal with five poeple's problems in the course of a day... but what about fifty?

[Cue-Ball]

The only way I can see to increase the user base of LFS is to fix the physics problems that it currently has. The "slick tires", "soapy tracks", "driving in the rain" complaints are probably the #1 thing that drives new users of the sim away. Sure, this is a sim, not a game. But even knowing that, the tire physics are still lacking. It's a good thing that the LX6 and RAC aren't the demo cars or I never would have bought S2 because they are WAY too "slidey". The phyics in LFS are pretty darn good, especially for certain cars, but they still need some help. There is a finite number of sim racers and until LFS is on par with the "best of breed" sims out there, nobody is going to abandon GTR or NR2003 for LFS.

I've tried to get my friends to play LFS but when a 120hp car in LFS slides around more than a 600hp car in GTR, they aren't going to make the change. And these aren't NFSU loving arcade fanatics. These are sim guys who should really be the core of LFS's customer base. When someone who's been playing sims since the GPL days can't run a clean lap in the LX6, there's a problem.

[farcar]

When someone who's been playing sims since the GPL days can't run a clean lap in the LX6, there's a problem.

LFS cars more slippery than GPL? Are you kidding?

[Pablo.CZ]

Agree with Cue-Ball. LFS has very good physics, but it's true that some cars are too "slidey". Not only LX6 or RAC.. For example RB4 on asphalt goes to skid nearly in every curve. Another problem with braking, stock tyres can blow up after several very short wheel locks - didn't notice on my real car :)
Problem is that this bugs can discourage new sim racers from buying and even worse, these people can discourage many friends when they tell them that LFS isn't real and that GTR (for example) is better (which isn't true!).

[Cue-Ball]

LFS cars more slippery than GPL? Are you kidding?
No, I'm not kidding.

Take the LX6 versus an average GPL car, for example...

A 1967 Formula 1 car weighs about 1200 lbs, has about 400 bhp, and runs bias ply 60's era tires (though they are wider than the LX6).

The LX6 weighs 1196 lbs, has 190 bhp (about half as much as the formula 1 car), and runs modern road tires, which I'm sure any vintage racer will tell you handle better than racing slicks from almost 40 years ago.

I would expect the F1 car to be hard to handle. It's got 400 hp, weighs next to nothing, and has tires that border on dangerous. I would NOT expect the LX6 to be that difficult to handle. It's still light but has less than 200hp, only 130lb/ft of torque, well more than 50% rear weight distribution, and decent, modern tires. There is no way that a car with these specs should be as tail happy as it is. This is a car with only 130hp and If cars handled like this in real life they'd be outlawed because people would be spinning off the road left and right.

My point stands: The people I know who've tried LFS have all been turned off by the driving model. And these aren't people who go play Ridge Racer instead. These are guys who like racing sims, own high performance cars, and drive their cars at track days. Some of the cars in LFS aren't bad (FWD cars and cars with nice, wide slicks seem much better), but several of the current cars border on undriveable. They can be tamed, but they don't behave like a car would in real life. Personally, I think many of the cars feel very much like driving on a wet track. The rear end comes out easy and doesn't "snap" back in line like you would expect of a car on dry pavement.

Edit: Just to be clear, I really like LFS. I personally think it's the best sim I've ever played and I think the devs have done a GREAT job, especially considering the small size of the dev team and the "home brew" nature of the game. However; that doesn't change the fact that the physics aren't quite right yet, IMO.

[cynic64]

That's funny, I played most of the night with several racers and was kept busy until 3 am.

I've just "signed up" to LFS and what an awesome package !!

I agree with some of the previous posts, its a pain whne you log in and find so many empty servers. I must get my head around the filters and see if that helps. Time zones are a pain, but no way to change that problem.

Good to see a few fellow antipodeans on the forums, hope to see you on-line at some stage.