Development Path of LFS [Archive]

George Kuyumji

29th March 2007, 22:44

spankmeyer

29th March 2007, 22:51

Just an easy way of identifying version. There's no "alphabet countdown to S2" as far as I know.

EDIT: What the hell I'm doing still awake?

nikimere

29th March 2007, 22:57

will we have reached S2 beta when were at Patch Z?
Nope it doesn't have to....
They could release S2 Alpha 2.1

Markz

29th March 2007, 23:01

Lautsprecher[NOR]

29th March 2007, 23:04

Trust me, we'll be waiting for new versions of LFS for many years to come. No need to stress.

JTbo

29th March 2007, 23:08

Patch V8, Patch V9 and so on until everything is added and works that were going to be in patch W and then patch VXX is becoming patch W that is again stable and not test patch, there is so many numbers that are needed to get it stable offical patch.

Amount of patches before beta depend from how well all features are getting into program, how much work test patches do and amount of threads that bring up questions like 'when will S2 final or S3 will come?' do have direct relation to how many versions are needed, every thread causes 10 new versions to be before moving on :D

There really is no information how many letters there will be and I honestly believe that situation lives a bit depending how much work was needed to make all patches, features are dropped and some perhaps added that are affecting to amount of test patches needed, but surely there are other factors that I could guess and be even right on some, but I don't like to talk from those too much, better if man himself likes to speak from them, he speaks but if not then not :tilt:

Becky Rose

29th March 2007, 23:22

I do get the impression that Scawen only has a couple more hurdles before S2 is considered finished. He's been cleaning up on the little things, which usually is a project closer. There aren't that many gaping holes left now, in terms of promised features for S2. Of course some of the holes remaining are fairly large: The AI for instance; and aero physics. So we're not going to see a final version just yet, but I do get the feeling that the last few months have brought us considerably closer to it.

thisnameistaken

29th March 2007, 23:29

All you need is patience. Hell, I'm trying to find enough patience to wait until I can get my damn license!

I'm pretty sure any long-time LFSer will tell you that to wait for a new LFS version you'll need patience..

lol waiting for a new version of Live For Speed to come out is the ultimate test of patience.

There's something odd about writing four sentences and ending three of them with the word "patience". No offense, but it does make you sound a little bit deranged!

I do get the impression that Scawen only has a couple more hurdles before S2 is considered finished. He's been cleaning up on the little things, which usually is a project closer.

Nah, it's just that he's avoiding putting out an incompatible patch. We've had a few periods of "little thing" activity but they've all been followed (ultimately) by an incompatible patch (hurrah!), and then more "little things"... That just seems to be the way Scawen prefers to work.

Gimpster

29th March 2007, 23:43

Right now we are at version S2 0.6v8 Scawen generaly will change the last number with every little change(Compatable). He generaly will change the preceeding leter when all of the bugs are worked out with the latest added features so when all the bugs are worked out with the version S20.6vXX we will get a new base version of S2 0.6w.

Now when he releases the first version of the multiplayer patch it will likely be either 0.6w1 or 0.6x. I do not remember of if incriments the leter on a feature add. When the version goes final we will probaly be at verison 0.7.

Having been here for over 4 years I can agree with what everyone has said. Patience is a virtue you have to have in spades if you are a fan of this sim. The funny part is after 4 years of new things my favorite car is still the XRT.

JTbo

29th March 2007, 23:52

Also patience is what makes you winning in proper races :thumb:

Hyperactive

30th March 2007, 00:13

I don't care even if the patch Ö8 (the last one in proper alphabets) wouldn't be final S2 version. All I'm interested is that some of the (imho higher priority) things are done by then. Diffs must get fixed before S2 final. Imho, aero can wait until we get more cars that really need the fix (=prototypes). Cars and tracks are basically quite fine but there are some issues which should get fixed there too. Rewindable replays have been wanted for years. Suspensions and car settings might need a tweak, a fix and new feature or two. That's the essentials for me.

False starts would be the ultimate gift as more aggressive engine damage. The damage modelling needs some fixing but nothing major. 20 cars is still enough imho. Sadle I'm afraid that this would require too much modifications to the net code so it may need to wait until the net code gets a rebuild for more slots and better packet handling etc...

That being said I would see no harm if the development continued like this after S2 final. An incompatible patch every year and small steps towards S3 instead of (few) years of waiting...

poirqc

30th March 2007, 00:20

I hate(love) your sig hyperactive!

I had to get it out!

Gimpster

30th March 2007, 00:36

In the test patch forum scawen mentioned he was going to try and up the racer and spector limits on servers for the Next Multiplayer incompatable. False starts are also on the may-be list if I remember correctly.

OT:
The things I am looking for before S2 Final are:

Propper Diffs
Propper Transmission/Clutch
More Fully Developed Damage
More Optimised & Brand Difference Tires
Aero Fixes (Undertray aftected by closeness to ground and relitive attitude)
Final LX and UFR Models
Final GTR Interiors
Class Ballance (I still maintain weight/power ratio and tire size and shape need to be equal)
AI
Flags & Penalties
Turning off Road Surface Smoothing (kill the splines and let us drive on a not glass smooth surface)

KurtG85

30th March 2007, 05:48

I bet you Scawen could make alot of money by putting a live webcam on his computer which people could subscribe to in order to watch him program.

In the meantime, for instruction in the art of patience refer to this video.
http://klaydoe.imeem.com/video/e3nsu2RM/patience/

[RCG]Boosted

30th March 2007, 06:00

I bet you Scawen could make alot of money by putting a live webcam on his computer which people could subscribe to in order to watch him program.

haha, i guess about the same that the devs got from lfs!! :D

KurtG85

30th March 2007, 06:28

Users on demo- 350
Users on S2- 35
Users on Scawens Private 24hr program cam (currently sleeping) - 2300

TypeRCivic

30th March 2007, 07:00

;375559']Trust me, we'll be waiting for new versions of LFS for many years to come. No need to stress.

No need to stress......you say that like you have all the time in the world to wait for a newer versions or even S3. Well I dont know about the rest of you guys but why waste the time in waiting for something thats in it's BETA version and when they do in fact decide to release s3 will it be up to standards? Honestly it takes 2 years or so to complete a version or what not and to think s2 is no where near complication what does that tell you for s3? When I look at the Suggestion thread and see a good or shall I say excellent ideal does it come into effect? It's been said before why are we paying so much for something thats in it's beta version and we get nothing but unlocks for futher " BETA " unlocks. I love the game alot but lets come to reality people....... I dont feel like waiting years for final versions and I know what people are going to tell me, " Dont wait then" and the sad thing is I want to play a cool version of lfs before I die. If I were the owners or what ever I'd put LFS up for sale and have some other "Company" finish the game and what not. I do beleive this is one of a kind game, nothing else like it. I'd like to see this game blow up in sales and advertisement but in the end it's probally rough trying to stay on top of shit and meet dead lines and fix bugs and glitches. I'm sure alot of people would dispute this theroy but why get your self worked up over nothing. Well thats my theroy about all of this "When the next beta version will be out" problem. I've never ment to affend anyone what so ever. Please no need for the negative comments.

Gunn

30th March 2007, 07:07

Honestly it takes 2 years or so to complete a version or what not and to think s2 is no where near complication what does that tell you for s3?It doesn't tell us anything at all about S3. LFS isn't divided into three equal sections of development. Different things have been developed throughout the whole evolution of LFS. Even Scawen couldn't tell you how long it will take.

KurtG85

30th March 2007, 07:15

richo

30th March 2007, 07:43

You know this reminds me so much of my kids asking when dinner is ready, when its done and theres sweet f.a that will change that.

Its ready when its ready and thats about that, this endless speculation gets kind of dull.I would love to see new stuff in the sim i really would and we will get it when we get it:)

kaynd

30th March 2007, 07:44

I love the way lfs is being developed and I appreciate that I bought a product that is getting better and better for free…

Any other large company would have stopped the evolution now considering it is finished… Just to make you buy the new version of the game…

TypeRCivic

30th March 2007, 07:54

There are many games that have been in development limbo for years and years and years. The only difference is you dont get to try them out before they are released as a finished product. So, like you suggested, here is the solution: stop playing LFS until it is finalized. Then judge it then and see if it stacks up to the competition. Maybe it wont, maybe it will blow them away. Who knows? At the moment it is better than the competition in the areas I value so thats probably why people play it.

:wow: Do yah think so? GTR-2 is much better in may aspects but lets not get on that subject as it's been broughten up before and all hell breaks loose. Go back to your first sentence. Your correct about that but you never hear of the game until it's about to be released, Like FORZA MOTOR SPORTS 2 is a very good example but there again it's comparing a multi-million dollar corporation who have developed the game vs. Live For Speed's developer's and what staff they do have. Have the DEVES got anything to look fordward to? You tell me. Does anyone know what's going to be in the game later to come? Probally not. I'd like to know myself.

AndroidXP

30th March 2007, 08:39

If you really have to ask these questions, then maybe Live for Speed is not the right game for you.

chunkyracer

30th March 2007, 09:21

I really think that in the end it all comes down to the way you look at the game. I like LFS the way it is now... I enjoy playing LFS more than other simulator I tried... So is it hard for me to wait for the new things to come? Obviously not.
Besides, the way LFS is developed is different than any other game. You either understand this or not, because I don´t really think it will change. And test patches are a good example of this... Scawen releases a test patch and there are 5 racers among the thousands that play LFS that have a problem with it: their problem gets looked at and most times solved in the same day or the day after. In what game do you have this kind of approach towards the people that buy the game? None! In other games you buy it, you play it and if you have problems with it you can only "hope" that it will get fixed someday... So you have to decide you either live with the problem or stop playing. Simple as that!

fragile_dog

30th March 2007, 09:23

Meh I'm not bothered by the waiting, we've still got a damn good game, with great multiplayer racing. Instead of waiting I just go race :/

Gentlefoot

30th March 2007, 11:37

Meh I'm not bothered by the waiting, we've still got a damn good game, with great multiplayer racing. Instead of waiting I just go race :/

My thoughts exactly. I don't care if we never get S3. I've already got the best driving game I've ever played so I'm happy anyway.

Niels Heusinkveld

30th March 2007, 11:45

Turning off Road Surface Smoothing (kill the splines and let us drive on a not glass smooth surface)

That would be a step back! Why do sim programers seem to think that driving on "concrete slabs" is a good thing? Bumps are important in a race sim but imo its 5x better to NOT use bumps and use a smooth SPline road than driving on the polygons.

What happened to "If something's worth doing its worth doing properly"? Driving the polygons is much much further removed from a real road surface than splined smoothness. :( :(

Becky Rose

30th March 2007, 11:50

@niels - surely it depends on what he replaces it with? You've made the assumption that it would be "driving on the polygons".

With LFS' current polygon density on the tracks I can understand your reservation - although the LOD system is good so arguably new tracks could theoretically allow this - but I would rather wait to see what Scawen actually delivers before mocking it...

Niels Heusinkveld

30th March 2007, 14:43

True Becky, I'm a little scared as too many games tend to go 'hmm need bumps.. hmm polygons!'.. I hope Scawen comes up with a better system. "turning it off" as was said made me believe that the remaining surface would be polygons..

GeForz

30th March 2007, 15:01

George Kuyumji

30th March 2007, 17:50

If you really have to ask these questions, then maybe Live for Speed is not the right game for you.

You do not mean me and my original question about the planned LFS development?

I'm not critisizing or questioning the way LFS is developed, I just asked what the development Path is. It's just a normal question.

For me LFS S1 was a good Sim already by itself, LFS S2 improved so much of S1 its like a whole second Product, so its like "LFS 2" for me.
Nobody bashed Geoff Crammond when he created GP2 as a follower of GP1, and LFS S2 is like the following Sim to LFS S1 to me so I have no problem here.

S2 Alpha Patch 0,5 V6 or whatever it is called were we are now, is already a more finished Sim with more content and features than alot of other "finished" Sims.

Dupson

30th March 2007, 19:17

So, as far as I know, LFS S1 was released in July 2003. S2 Alpha was released in June 2005. At the moment we have LFS S2 Alpha Patch V6.

We progressed from Patch S2 Alpha Vers. 0,5 ? "W" some weeks before, so the letters give a little indication of the progress. I'm wondering will we have reached S2 beta when were at Patch Z? Or do the letters of the Patches stand for something else?

Do not turn this into a LFS Development is right/wrong discussion, I'm just asking to know how the development path looks like

good question , actually remember that after you run out of letters you can make some combos with numbers like "LFS S2 A1 ALPHA !!" after this you re free to start a new alphabet counting like "LFS S2 A1 A ALPHA" then "LFS S2 A1 B ALPHA"

AndroidXP

30th March 2007, 19:41

You do not mean me and my original question about the planned LFS development?Nope, I meant TypeRCivic :)

Racer Y

31st March 2007, 03:35

uh... this thread does have me a little curious about the development path (?)

I mean when S-3 does come out, will that be it? or will there be additional patches as required like what's going on right now?

What i'm asking is will S-3 be released as complete as can be or like S-3 alpha or beta or something?

not that it really matters, just curious

KurtG85

31st March 2007, 03:46

:wow: Do yah think so? GTR-2 is much better in may aspects but lets not get on that subject as it's been broughten up before and all hell breaks loose. Go back to your first sentence. Your correct about that but you never hear of the game until it's about to be released, Like FORZA MOTOR SPORTS 2 is a very good example but there again it's comparing a multi-million dollar corporation who have developed the game vs. Live For Speed's developer's and what staff they do have. Have the DEVES got anything to look fordward to? You tell me. Does anyone know what's going to be in the game later to come? Probally not. I'd like to know myself.

No offense meant to you man, but this post has no substance that leads to further discussion, not to mention it violates the original poster's request. You want it to come out faster, I really dont think your in danger of dieing before you see the finished product like you suggested, and theres simply nothing you can do personally to speed up the dev process so you (and all the rest of us) just need to accept it for what it is. You can make it as bad or as good a situation as you want it in your mind but it is what it is.

George Kuyumji

31st March 2007, 16:37

ah :)

joen

31st March 2007, 16:42

I mean when S-3 does come out, will that be it? or will there be additional patches as required like what's going on right now?

After S3, LFS is considered to be finished, but I assume that when a serious issue comes up there will be fixes. But no further development as far as features are concerned. There's a possibility that LFS will be made moddable so that new content can be inserted into the sim by third party groups, but no decision has been made on that.

What i'm asking is will S-3 be released as complete as can be or like S-3 alpha or beta or something?

After S2 development on S3 will start, meaning a series of S3 alpha versions, followed by one or a couple of beta versions, and a final after that.

The above is based solely on common belief and on what I have read about it, and none of it is a 100% certainty.