Ky Oval round

[BenjiMC]

Well i have a little protest from a team running the FXR regarding this round, the problem being that they are in an FXR and it's WAY too slow :shrug:

Now my reconing on this is because it CLEARLY states in the rules you will run the same car ALL season, i dont think any changes should be made. but a pole is best so here it is.

Should this round be changed to allow for all teams to use the XRR or FZR or FXR? or should it be left alone?

[funnybone2]

i say all GTR,s but hey im ont part of them :schwitz:

[LFSn00b]

I say FXR, because it's the best car to the oval.


But is it allowed to drive one race of the league? If so, i want to drive this, because i have possibilities in this :p

[th84]

Just make the other's drive with a passenger! :)

[James Montgomery]

Just make the other's drive with a passenger! :)


What a good idea, add weight as a penalty otherwise it would be very un-fair.

I like this guy lol.

[Fischfix]

in fact the fxr is the slowest gtr on this track when it comes to a tracklength where all cars have to pit in.

i am not sure on the length of the race becuase i can't find the schedule but if it will be about 110 laps the XRR will be the fastest car because the FZR will have to pit in at least once and the xrr AND fxr don't have to pit in. so even a slower fzr will lose against a fast FXR.

if its short enough so nobody has to pit in, FZR wins allthough fast XRR can keep up if they draft well or bumpdraft.

the weight thing (with passengers) may be also a possibility, however i am not sure how much the influence is.

why not making something like what they do in the stcc. give them a point advantage that equals out the class in some sort.


one more aspect: at the beginning of the league it was clear that the fxr is slower on some and faster on other tracks. so if you chose that car you are aware of that fact. why equal it out now. some drivers might have taken the FZR because of the fact they will be ahead at least at the oval track...

[Lepletier]

in fact the fxr is the slowest gtr on this track when it comes to a tracklength where all cars have to pit in.

i am not sure on the length of the race becuase i can't find the schedule but if it will be about 110 laps the XRR will be the fastest car because the FZR will have to pit in at least once and the xrr AND fxr don't have to pit in. so even a slower fzr will lose against a fast FXR.

if its short enough so nobody has to pit in, FZR wins allthough fast XRR can keep up if they draft well or bumpdraft.

the weight thing (with passengers) may be also a possibility, however i am not sure how much the influence is.

why not making something like what they do in the stcc. give them a point advantage that equals out the class in some sort.


one more aspect: at the beginning of the league it was clear that the fxr is slower on some and faster on other tracks. so if you chose that car you are aware of that fact. why equal it out now. some drivers might have taken the FZR because of the fact they will be ahead at least at the oval track...

Agreed 101%.

[r4ptor]

I voted for FZR - we already have a majority of FZR drivers, so I don't see the point in choosing another car.

I wouldn't mind "leave it alone" option, but we all know that non-FZR driver already are doomed.. no matter what setup they come up with... but yeah, they should have know.. but then again.. oval racing? meh :P

[beefyman666]

I chose to leave it as is.

For those talking about adding a passenger, where are they going to sit? :scratchch

[racer hero]

This isnt a pole....this is war. lol joke

[battle]

well the rules clearly state that you have to drive the same car you choose the first race for the whole duration of the season but whoever, i wouldn't complain if everyone could use a FZR on OVAL only:) it's more fair that way

[Leifde]

I say use whatever car they want for the oval. :)

[siLc]

I voted for XRR, beacause everybody always race with FZR or FXR. XRR is fun too guys.

[Lepletier]

I voted for XRR, beacause everybody always race with FZR or FXR. XRR is fun too guys.

yeah, i love the XRR... but no one uses ;/

[S14 DRIFT]

I think that tests should be done for lap times for each of the cars, then give time bonus/penalties accordingly to balance out the classes

[racer hero]

yeh I think that would work....but id rather just all fzr!!!!!!

[Leifde]

No, I do not want to be restricted to a different car than I chose. My understanding with the league was that you chose one of the 3 cars it wasn't restricted. Kinda takes away from the whole idea of GT racing too, only having one car.

[racer hero]

I think it should be that you have a chouse to change. Not that you have to change.

[Leifde]

Yes, I think that is a good compromise, let people choose a different car for this race if they want. If not they can stick with their original car. :)

[BenjiMC]

Yes, I think that is a good compromise, let people choose a different car for this race if they want. If not they can stick with their original car. :)

i think that'll be the choice for the round

[racer hero]

nevermind.

[MZWiZard]

Well, I think people should and probably have considered car choice before signing up. While we can discuss for ages if the FXR is easier and faster on some tracks, I think that we should stick to the rules.

After all, IRL you dont see teams all the suddan drive BMW's in the middle of a season, if they signed a contract and drive Toyota... :smileypul

[BenjiMC]

I'm guessing the new patch will be finalised by this round so, with the restrictor plate and weight penalties on patch W9 thats how i will adjust the cars on this event.

[Rooble]

I'm guessing the new patch will be finalised by this round so, with the restrictor plate and weight penalties on patch W9 thats how i will adjust the cars on this event.

We could just remove oval from the league and replace it? :D

[srdsprinter]

We could just remove oval from the league and replace it? :D
hmmm...

[racer hero]

So we are all using the FZR for the oval race then correct?

[BenjiMC]

incorrect, you will all be using the car you signed up with

[racer hero]

Ok and what will be the weight penalties? 0 40 80?

[BenjiMC]

nothing will be changed.

[srdsprinter]

Oval should definately be an interesting challenge, if not a change of pace.

After this Saturday's round, would you consider setting up a few (shorter) practice race events between the rounds, Ben?

Some official practice races could really break up the monotony of a month off while oval test and tuning.

[DeadWolfBones]

I like the ambiguity of both admins being named Ben. :D

That sounds like a pretty good idea. Would probably also encourage more extensive pre-race testing for those teams that are on the slothful side.

[srdsprinter]

Just to float an early season 2 idea: non-mandatory shorter weekly(?) test races between rounds. As you said, to encourage practicing/attendance, and *perhaps* attendance record could be used for something like a points tiebreaker.

[DeadWolfBones]

I'd also like to float the idea of not having an oval race next season. I don't really feel that it fits the format of the series, though I appreciate the effort to draw in drivers other than the ones we'd normally get.

[BenjiMC]

I agree with both of your points there. Maybe we could have 1 test race before each round at the halfway point of each month?

[Who Cares]

nothing will be changed.

A very good finishing statement.... :thumb:

Stick to the rules and leave it at that...

[alland44]

I saw one person mention bumperdrafting.

If that`s allowed, I will certainly not participate.

I can tell you, if anybody touches my rear, I will brake 100%.
Bumperdraft is not racing :(

So can we be told - Is bumperdraft"cheating" allowed ?

BTW - I like the oval, but it is misplaced in this series. Fzr beats the Fxr with nearly a second in the hotlaps WR.

Left on the steering wheel, pedal to the metal, and even a noob could beat the fastest fxr.

But we Fxr drivers can have our own race, then I would look forward to this oval race, if bumpercheating is not allowed :)

[alland44]

73 votes ??
Can my cat also vote ??????????????






(If i had a cat :) )

[DeadWolfBones]

Bumpdrafting is a big part of oval racing and I certainly don't think it will be banned for the oval round.

However, I personally would never bump draft with anyone I didn't know would be ok with it, and I would expect that no one else would either. I'll do it with teammates, or people I've had previous experience doing it with, but not with a stranger.

There's of course also the consideration that bumpdrafting = damage, probably for both cars, which probably means much time lost under green flag pitstops, etc. I wouldn't personally do it until after the last set of pitstops, but I won't vote to keep others from doing it if they so choose.

[DeadWolfBones]

I would also support using oval round-only weight penalties to balance the cars in laptimes, btw.

[Droemel]

I would also support using oval round-only weight penalties to balance the cars in laptimes, btw.
A weight-penalty for the FZR will not be necessary I think.
The FZR has to do more pitstops than the FXR or the XRR because of the bigger fuel-usage.

But in case of a penalty for the FZR the air-restrictor would be the better option on the oval imho.

[alland44]

Bumpdrafting is a big part of oval racing and I certainly don't think it will be banned for the oval round.

However, I personally would never bump draft with anyone I didn't know would be ok with it, and I would expect that no one else would either. I'll do it with teammates, or people I've had previous experience doing it with, but not with a stranger.

There's of course also the consideration that bumpdrafting = damage, probably for both cars, which probably means much time lost under green flag pitstops, etc. I wouldn't personally do it until after the last set of pitstops, but I won't vote to keep others from doing it if they so choose.

How can pushing another car, be allowed !?

[BenjiMC]

It is allowed because it isn't hitting your opponent, it's is taging them and holding a close position, similar to a set of trains. Hence the reason DWB mentioned he would do it with teammates only or people he has previously done it with.

Regarding the handicaps. Prior to this season all teams knew that the oval round was on the calender and also when the global class balancing system was introduced and adjusted all teams had 2 chances to change their cars. So as i said there should not be any changes to the cars to balance them for this round as there has not been for any other round.

[Richard Torp]

I dont like bumdrafting no matter what track and league it`s allowed in... So no dba cars for the Ky round.. :tilt:

Have a nice race.. :thumb:

[Fischfix]

is it possible to sing up for this oval round only? sounds like a good preparation for the kyoto 360 event.

[nmanley]

I'd also like to float the idea of not having an oval race next season. I don't really feel that it fits the format of the series, though I appreciate the effort to draw in drivers other than the ones we'd normally get.

AGREED!!!!
Who came up with this STUPID idea anyway? :scratchch

[BenjiMC]

meh...

@fishfix, yes it is possible to enter for the oval round only. However it would be preffered if it was a signing for the remaining race also.

[alland44]

meh...

@fishfix, yes it is possible to enter for the oval round only. However it would be preffered if it was a signing for the remaining race also.


Can my cat join ?

This is redicoulos, rediculus, rediculous - YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN :)

My cat is good at "pushing things around" at the floor, if I had a cat :)

Fun aside.

I really love the oval. I will drive any car there - Even the Uf1000.
I also have participated in bumperraces, the xfg, several times. That was fun, very funny indeed.

But in serious races ??????

No thank you.

When you are done "pushing" - Call us, for some serious CLEAN racing :)

[srdsprinter]

Come on now people. Yes it is an event on the oval. Gasp and shudder. If people can't deal with this, how can you deal with South City, or Fern Bay?

It is a challenge. It's different. There is quite a fight for points in the IGTC championship standings still to be decided. The oval round is part of that championship, and it has been so from the begining of the season.

For those not chosing to participate, that is fine! I hope to see you all at the final round, and best of luck!

For those who are, I'm sure this will be a new challenge for all of us. Good luck as well!

[alland44]

Come on now people. Yes it is an event on the oval. Gasp and shudder. If people can't deal with this, how can you deal with South City, or Fern Bay?

It is a challenge. It's different. There is quite a fight for points in the IGTC championship standings still to be decided. The oval round is part of that championship, and it has been so from the begining of the season.

For those not chosing to participate, that is fine! I hope to see you all at the final round, and best of luck!

For those who are, I'm sure this will be a new challenge for all of us. Good luck as well!

I can guarantee, tha Team dba would participate, if it was "mano et mano" and not "teamo pushes teamo".

We on Team dba will not degrade racing, to push each other around on the tracks. Team dba will join every serious race there are, if we are "free to race" on the specified racing dates.

We want to race ! Not play around :)

EDIT :
Rihard owns Team dba, and I`m the team leader - Now you now :

[BenjiMC]

I consider it as an example of your commitment to the league. "I dont like the combo so i wont race" is not a very good attitude to have to wards a serious league. You can race or not but i will take it onboard when Season two sign-ups open.

Edit: Watch any NASCAR race on the oval rounds you will see bump drafting is a very real part of racing.

[alland44]

I consider it as an example of your commitment to the league. "I dont like the combo so i wont race" is not a very good attitude to have to wards a serious league. You can race or not but i will take it onboard when Season two sign-ups open.

It`s not serious to push each other around the track.
NEVER !

Man to man, and we will join the race. Team against team, pushing each other around the track, you race without us :)

It`s a free world, and we choose serious racing - OK !??

[BenjiMC]

I agree, but i would also like to see you try and govern it.

[DeadWolfBones]

I'm fine with your bias against bumpdrafting, but the fact of the matter is that it happens in real life oval racing and it happens in LFS oval racing.

Furthermore, it hasn't been banned (and has in fact been used) in other races during the IGTC season, though of course not as extensively as it might be used in the oval round.

As I said before, it will be counterproductive to bumpdraft with those who aren't ok with the idea, and also counterproductive to bumpdraft when there are still pitstops remaining. It not only produces damage to both the bumper and the bumpee, but also greatly increases the risk of a spin, etc. I imagine that it'll be used in select circumstances if at all.

If you really can't deal with this, alright, we'll see you in the next round. :)

[Nobo]

I can guarantee, tha Team dba would participate, if it was "mano et mano" and not "teamo pushes teamo".

We on Team dba will not degrade racing, to push each other around on the tracks. Team dba will join every serious race there are, if we are "free to race" on the specified racing dates.

We want to race ! Not play around :)

EDIT :
Rihard owns Team dba, and I`m the team leader - Now you now :

I've been following the discussion for some time now. Sounds for me you had a bad day and put your anger down here. Why not just pull out for the race and shut up if you dont like something, instead you put down the organisation and the league here, again and again, you have layed down your point, why picking and picking on it???
If its possible with lfs physics to bump then hell yea do it if people like. But i havent seen anyone here posting he wants really planning to bump through the race.
Its still the same serious racing with bump allowed then without, simply because LFS Physics allows it, but there is still some damage and spinning risk, maybe because of little lag or inproper bump, so the one who said here he will not puch someone who doesnt want it is right and that should be the way everyone should handle it. In ESCC Race at Aston GP you could see that even the top notch players in LFS use bumperdrafting to avoid that someone can catch them on the long Start/Finish straight and i would call the racing serious there from drivers like Mooney, Sracer...

[alland44]

I've been following the discussion for some time now. Sounds for me you had a bad day and put your anger down here. Why not just pull out for the race and shut up if you dont like something, instead you put down the organisation and the league here, again and again, you have layed down your point, why picking and picking on it???
If its possible with lfs physics to bump then hell yea do it if people like. But i havent seen anyone here posting he wants really planning to bump through the race.
Its still the same serious racing with bump allowed then without, simply because LFS Physics allows it, but there is still some damage and spinning risk, maybe because of little lag or inproper bump, so the one who said here he will not puch someone who doesnt want it is right and that should be the way everyone should handle it. In ESCC Race at Aston GP you could see that even the top notch players in LFS use bumperdrafting to avoid that someone can catch them on the long Start/Finish straight and i would call the racing serious there from drivers like Mooney, Sracer...

It seems that you have the bad day, my friend :)

[KSheppard]

I'm not into Nascar so the oval realy dosen't get me going. I'll make a quick set and balance it but I really dont need to spend hours learning the track (i can turn left pretty good i think:D) I'll take advantage and learn Aston North which I've really not done much on

However it's in the series I signed up for and it will be a different experience. Honestly I think it will be a very interesting race and one where strategy will be much more fun :thumb:

BUT I will NOT be a very happy racer if I get bumpdrafted and spun.

Realistically though each team only has one car on the track at a time and I get the impression that bumpdrafting in the LFS community is generally seen as unsportsmanlike and we've got some of the topest drivers competing. (guys i'm not afraid to battle door to door with through corner after corner) I would actually be surprised if it's a tactic that gets used.

[Richard Torp]

I consider it as an example of your commitment to the league. "I dont like the combo so i wont race" is not a very good attitude to have to wards a serious league. You can race or not but i will take it onboard when Season two sign-ups open.

Edit: Watch any NASCAR race on the oval rounds you will see bump drafting is a very real part of racing.

I and dba accept your rules, You know my standpoint.
We like the combo, but we dont like the bumpdrafting, thats the case - case closed from our side.

If you dont allow us to join season 2, it`s ok with us..:) It`s your league and your rules..

And it`s an oval track, but the cars are not NASCAR`s.. :razz: it`s Sportcars..:D

And to your information i can tell you that i had only done one league since march 2003 in LFS, were bumpdrafting was allowed and that was the Irish Championship 2007. We had the same opinion on that there and we made a gentleman rule there, so everybody could have fun.. :)

Furthermore i din`t see anything in your rules that stated that bumpdrafting were allowed..:scratchch Maybe it was there at some point and i didn`t pay enough attention to it. But IF i had seen it, i would not had signed up in this league knowing about the bumdrafting.. :)

But case closed and as i wrote i accept your rules - so have fun... :thumb:

[DeadWolfBones]

I and dba accept your rules, You know my standpoint.
We like the combo, but we dont like the bumpdrafting, thats the case - case closed from our side.

If you dont allow us to join season 2, it`s ok with us..:) It`s your league and your rules..

dba has been a solid team for the IGTC all season and I honestly think there's very little chance you won't be asked back for next season. We appreciate your participation so far, and we understand that you have a difference of opinion here--no big deal. We simply ask that you don't degrade the decisions of the admins over a simple difference of opinion. :)

And it`s an oval track, but the cars are not NASCAR`s.. :razz: it`s Sportcars..:D

And to your information i can tell you that i had only done one league since march 2003 in LFS, were bumpdrafting was allowed and that was the Irish Championship 2007. We had the same opinion on that there and we made a gentleman rule there, so everybody could have fun.. :)

I can conversely tell you that I've never been in a league where bumpdrafting was banned. Anecdotal evidence FTW, it seems. :D

Furthermore i din`t see anything in your rules that stated that bumpdrafting were allowed..:scratchch Maybe it was there at some point and i didn`t pay enough attention to it. But IF i had seen it, i would not had signed up in this league knowing about the bumdrafting.. :)

There's also nothing in the rules about it being disallowed, as we had considered it to be a non-issue. It's standard operating procedure on the oval, and used fairly regularly (in my league experience at least) when trying to make a pass on long road course straightaways. Frankly I'm a little shocked by your vehement opposition to it, especially given that most in this thread have said they won't do it with you unless you want them to. Are you more worried about those who choose to do it outpacing you, or about negative consequences from poorly executed bumpdrafting?

But case closed and as i wrote i accept your rules - so have fun... :thumb:

Great, no problem here, then. We'll see you at AS North! :thumbsup:

[Richard Torp]

"Are you more worried about those who choose to do it outpacing you, or about negative consequences from poorly executed bumpdrafting?"


I don`t wanna be hit by another car, thats the case. It doesn`t matter if it called bumpdrafting or not.. :thumb: Touching a car in front of me is a no go or be touched from behind..


I would love to be passed on a oval, with a clean and fair pass..and that`s without bumpdrafting...but for sure a drafting pass.

It seems that a lot mores does bumpdrafting these days in LFS, but as i told i have never been in a league were you did it, apart from the Irish. I don`t see bumpdrafting in real racing in Denmark. If you hit another car in front of you, you will get penalized..
I`m confident that we can find racers who doesn`t like bumpdrafting so (infact a lot of Scandinavians has same opinion on this as we do) we can do prober racing with in LFS, for the future..:) After 4,5 years in LFS i`m sure i can do another 4,5 year without touching people..so the future is bright after all....:D

I didn`t try to get into disscussion about your decission, I know it could look like Allan did, but thats solved now with my latest posts.. :)

[Lotesdelere]

Suggestion for the Oval round:

Because of the length of the track, the speed involved and the LFS queue slowness maybe you should allow the incoming driver to join the server one lap before the team car is on its in-lap ?

[BenjiMC]

I agree with that suggestion. Makes a lotta sence to do it that way since every lap is around 39 seconds. Thanks for that one :thumb:

[Celmo]

In the rules stand: "13) Drivers must remain between the pit exit lines when exiting the pits, under all circumstances. Failure to abide by this rule will result in a DT if caught by the marshals, or a one (1) lap penalty in the final standings if protested after the race." There stand nothing about the pit entry. Can we cross the pitline when we drive in the pits? If this is allowed we can start the pit entry after T3.

[KSheppard]

ya...maybe for us non-nascar familiar drivers a little pic or two of exactly where the pit in/out lanes are. on pit exit I gotta go all the way around the left hander till the striaght right? :shrug:

[LFSn00b]

the pitlane starts from the yellow line after the fast turn, aka T2, and end after T1(still follow the yellow line)

[KSheppard]

that's what I thought :thumb:

[DeadWolfBones]

In all likelihood we will have a layout with cones or those vertical poles to delineate where pit lane begins/where you should exit the track. This is pretty common practice for pit entry for oval events. If we go this route we'll have the layout available for practice no later than a week before the event.

[BenjiMC]

I had already prepped one before i started the season that i have changed about a week ago now. I'll make a new thread wiht it so you can practice on it. :thumb: