CoT addition?

[lizardfolk]

Will there be a CoT (car of tomorrow, (the new sports car like Nascar)) or atleast a stock car addition in Live for Speed. I know most people here probably dont like stock car, but for those of use who live in the American continents (American, Canada, Mexico). It'd be a nice addition.

It'll even be great to have a stock car league.

[March Hare]

1. Buy license

2. select car XRR

3. select track KY Oval

There is your nascar.

[ejgardner]

1. Buy license

2. select car XRR

3. select track KY Oval

There is your nascar.

that doesn't come close to a nascar car or a stock car in general...

[djgizmo68]

Closest well get..

[lizardfolk]

Wow that's like retro nascar LOL.

Well I wish there'd be more oval tracks. :(

[George Kuyumji]

We have some really great tracks in LFS, but KY Oval is a sad excuse for an Oval Track.

[Bob Smith]

It's got 3 banked left turns. That pretty much sums up an oval track IMO. What else do you want to add character (apart from right turns :p)?

[thisnameistaken]

Even though I'll never understand the appeal of oval racing, I'll +1 your rubbish stock car to show what a benevolent chap I can be when I'm under quite heavy sedation.

+1

But only if we get the LX8 too. :nod:

[funnybone2]

what about LX55 :razz: 5.5liter 55cylinder engine :D :nod:

[TomShanK]

I believe that CoT should not...but rather the NORMAL nascar...

Billions of People watch NASCAR...NASCAR makes up i believe 65% of Racing's Viewers...

Something similar to NASCAR should be introduced....

and to the guy that said something about the XRR...the XRR is NOTHING like NASCAR...NASCAR's dont have RICE wing's on the back. and Kyoto is an extremely sorry excuse for an oval...it has 6 turns, rather than 4...all these 1:00.00+ tracks...maybe you should put something like BRISTOL in...a half-mile oval...33 degrees of banking...

[thisnameistaken]

Billions of People watch NASCAR...NASCAR makes up i believe 65% of Racing's Viewers...

Billions?

NASCAR has a bigger worldwide audience than F1?

[Bob Smith]

65% of American viewers I can believe. LFS is International, however, and US racers are in the minority. The devs plan is to simulate all forms of racing, they've added an oval, I'm sure at some point we'll get a car worth driving around it. Would be pointless not to.

[dawesdust_12]

Also, I never knew Kyoto had 6 turns... Where have I been driving?

[lizardfolk]

Ok for those of you who think all nascar ovals are all the same......all i have to say is wow.....wow....and WOW.

But of course this is expected, most road course wringers are so ignorant to ovals that they tend to just view then as circles and nothing else.

Look at Atlanta, Talladega, Pocono, and Bristol......race a few laps and come back and tell me that they are the same -_-.

Ovals look boring. However the excitement is not in the track itself, but the competition from other cars. How is this different from road courses? In a road course the cars spread out really quickly and in the end you normally race against 3,4 mabey 5 cars within 2 seconds of each other.

In Ovals and Nascar, you race against 10 cars going 3-4 wide on an oval all within 2 seconds of each other constantly. Just being in that giant pack is fun as hell. (In Talladega, the cars never break off so the pack is usually 43 cars within 5 sec of each other).

Funny story, I was racing in a Nascar league and there was one race where I was in an entire pack the entire race. In the end I said to my team manager, "HEY I FINISHED WITHIN 3 SECONDS OF THE LEADER." My manager said, "ya, but u finished 24th -_-" LOL.

[lizardfolk]

I believe that CoT should not...but rather the NORMAL nascar...

Billions of People watch NASCAR...NASCAR makes up i believe 65% of Racing's Viewers...

Something similar to NASCAR should be introduced....

and to the guy that said something about the XRR...the XRR is NOTHING like NASCAR...NASCAR's dont have RICE wing's on the back. and Kyoto is an extremely sorry excuse for an oval...it has 6 turns, rather than 4...all these 1:00.00+ tracks...maybe you should put something like BRISTOL in...a half-mile oval...33 degrees of banking...

There is no such thing as a "normal" nascar. Normal nascar is now CoT. Nascar is STOCK CAR RACING. So it should be rephrased into "add stock car racing".

Remember Nascar is not the only stock car racing, it's just the biggest and the most popular.

Dont forget Cascar (canada), Corona Series (mexico), ARCA, USAR, and Australian Stock Car racing. They are all stock car racing but not all of them are Nascar.

Nascar=Nextel Cup, Busch Cup, Craftsmen Truck Series, Cascar, Corona Series. Nascar is only a form of stock car racing.

[djgizmo68]

I would like a more stock car orientated car, rather the GTR Cars we have now.

Rather a XRS (XF Stock), 4 Liter V8, 400 Horses, which imo, could be a suitable cover for a stock car

[lizardfolk]

FYI guys, stock car racing also have some time on the road courses (nascar: Watkins Glen, Infinion)

Why not the CoT? The CoT looks so cool: http://www.wcoy.com/car-of-tomorrow.jpg

If u want traditional stock car racing, then it's best if u'd model the USAR cars.

[Woz]

Yep, I think LFS needs a Stockcar and a short oval to kickstart LFS in the US, KY Oval is a bit long.

[dawesdust_12]

The Car of Tomorrow looks like a FZR with a smaller wing.

[djgizmo68]

Yep, I think LFS needs a Stockcar and a short oval to kickstart LFS in the US, KY Oval is a bit long.
Something like Bristal :)

[joen]

Why not the CoT? The CoT looks so cool: http://www.wcoy.com/car-of-tomorrow.jpg

Matter of taste I guess. I think it's hideous.

[Bob Smith]

Matter of taste I guess. I think it's hideous.
Agree with you there.

Woz - shorter oval = actually braking = actually interesting :thumb:

Ovals look boring. However the excitement is not in the track itself, but the competition from other cars. How is this different from road courses? In a road course the cars spread out really quickly and in the end you normally race against 3,4 mabey 5 cars within 2 seconds of each other.

In Ovals and Nascar, you race against 10 cars going 3-4 wide on an oval all within 2 seconds of each other constantly. Just being in that giant pack is fun as hell. (In Talladega, the cars never break off so the pack is usually 43 cars within 5 sec of each other).
While I can agree the cars are closer, everything is relative. Just because they're closer doesn't make it easier to overtake, if anything that's a lot harder to achieve than in traditional circuit racing (correct me if I'm wrong there, I've only seen the occasional oval race, and probably never from start to finish). Rallying and hill climbing is IMO the most interesting racing to watch, and the cars are never together. And it's not because of the crashes either, it just looks so graceful and controlled, and you get a real feeling for speed going over bumpy ground down a track not twice as wide as the car (well, in places).

Sound is an interesting point, stock cars sound great with their V8s, but the engine note is so similar with little change in rpm and rare use of gear changes. A probably unjust comparison would be playing a Metallica track vs the middle 30 seconds on infinite loop. There's nothing like seeing a prototype appear from behind a rise, see the brakes glow orange as the car slows into Arnage, hearing the driver slowly feed the power through 1st and 2nd coming out of a chicane, struggling for traction, before howling off through the woods. Or hearing all the gears used as the car flys out of Tertre Rouge and eats up the Mulsanne Straight. Ahhh, heaven. I miss Le Mans.

[dawesdust_12]

I can imagine though that said short oval would be hell without some more smoothness packets available, like being able to set smoothness to 10...

[Woz]

Woz - shorter oval = actually braking = actually interesting :thumb:

The sort of track I am thinking is the sort where they claim there are 4 corners but infact is two short straights coupled with a 180deg corner. Yep, something where brakes matter.

That coupled with the of flintstone tech of Nascars (live rear) and its good fun. Trouble with ovals in LFS is not many understand how to race them so you get pile ups too often as people forget they are in a pack.

[mrodgers]

The sort of track I am thinking is the sort where they claim there are 4 corners but infact is two short straights coupled with a 180deg corner. Yep, something where brakes matter.

That coupled with the of flintstone tech of Nascars (live rear) and its good fun. Trouble with ovals in LFS is not many understand how to race them so you get pile ups too often as people forget they are in a pack.
Point #1, you want Martinsville, the shortest of the Nascar tracks. 0.49 miles with ~1500 foot straights. IMO, it is the best track in Nascar, and a blast to drive in NR2003.

As for oval in LFS, it's not only that people don't understand how to race on an oval, but the aero physics is lacking. Perhaps it's because of car design, but with stockcars, you don't continuously slingshot past each other back and forth through the whole race. Both cars get an advantage during the draft. A line of 5 or 6 cars on a track like Kyoto (which essentially would drive much like Daytona) would pull away from a pack of cars running side by side. Even with the fact that the side by side cars are drafting the cars in front and behind. The front car should be getting a push from the cushion of air between them when in drafting. The way it is in LFS may be ok with open wheel cars, but the continuous slingshotting shouldn't happen with something that has a flatter front end (ie, a car with a bumper).

[PMD9409]

Even though Martinsville would be nice, I dont like the fact it is mainly only one groove. A more fun short track IMO would be Irwindale because it has the variable banking. So, the top line is the line most run and does help out the tires, but the lower line is where the ppl behind try to pass. And since the track is wide it calls for some good racing.

It also has an open in-field section with a smaller oval in the middle. The smaller oval could be used for things such as banger leagues, and also for figure 8 races. Another thing, you know those pesky drifters like Irwindale :P . So I think Irwindale would be more suitable for lfs because it could be used for more than just the one oval.

Sorry for bringing this thread even more off topic from the OP.

[lizardfolk]

Something like Bristal :)

Bristol, Martinsville, and Myrtle Beach.....all u guys need to see :)

As for Rally, rally is mainly a time trial then a race. Ovals, rally, and road course are all very different from each other. I personally find rally boring. But in the end, it really matters on your taste. If any one of those three racing discipline would be boring, then all three would not have the following it has now

Point #1, you want Martinsville, the shortest of the Nascar tracks. 0.49 miles with ~1500 foot straights. IMO, it is the best track in Nascar, and a blast to drive in NR2003.

As for oval in LFS, it's not only that people don't understand how to race on an oval, but the aero physics is lacking. Perhaps it's because of car design, but with stockcars, you don't continuously slingshot past each other back and forth through the whole race. Both cars get an advantage during the draft. A line of 5 or 6 cars on a track like Kyoto (which essentially would drive much like Daytona) would pull away from a pack of cars running side by side. Even with the fact that the side by side cars are drafting the cars in front and behind. The front car should be getting a push from the cushion of air between them when in drafting. The way it is in LFS may be ok with open wheel cars, but the continuous slingshotting shouldn't happen with something that has a flatter front end (ie, a car with a bumper).

This i agree. Oval racing will be effective and fun if there's a good aero system. (Nascar 2003, Nascar Sim, RFactor CoT).

[Woz]

Point #1, you want Martinsville, the shortest of the Nascar tracks. 0.49 miles with ~1500 foot straights. IMO, it is the best track in Nascar, and a blast to drive in NR2003.

Yep, sounds the right sort of thing. Something you have to work to drive and no space to rest.

As for oval in LFS, it's not only that people don't understand how to race on an oval, but the aero physics is lacking. Perhaps it's because of car design, but with stockcars, you don't continuously slingshot past each other back and forth through the whole race. Both cars get an advantage during the draft. A line of 5 or 6 cars on a track like Kyoto (which essentially would drive much like Daytona) would pull away from a pack of cars running side by side. Even with the fact that the side by side cars are drafting the cars in front and behind. The front car should be getting a push from the cushion of air between them when in drafting. The way it is in LFS may be ok with open wheel cars, but the continuous slingshotting shouldn't happen with something that has a flatter front end (ie, a car with a bumper).

True, you need to team up with others if you geet behind and need to chase. Would bee good to get that effect in LFS.

I am sure others have said that some stockcar related setup option that are also missing on the cars in LFS.

[lizardfolk]

Yep, sounds the right sort of thing. Something you have to work to drive and no space to rest.

That's where a tracks like Talladega would be great. Me after a tally race::schwitz:

[mrodgers]

I am sure others have said that some stockcar related setup option that are also missing on the cars in LFS.
Yup, me on multiple occasions every time a discussion on stockcar/Nascar for LFS comes up. You need staggar, tires on one side being larger than the other. The biggest thing I don't like with driving the KY oval is my steering wheel pointing straight as I drive down the straights, LOL. In stockcars, they use staggar to help with turning in the corners, thus you are actually holding the wheel off center while driving down the straight.

Staggar, better or different aero physics, and weight bias are the 3 main things needed for stockcar racing in LFS. (those and more and better ovals :D )

Sheesh, I'm heading to bed.... Good night all....

[George Kuyumji]

Aston is Great.
Westhill is Great.
Blackwood is Great.
Fern Bay is Great.
South City is Great.

But the Oval track in LFS is so bad it's not even funny anymore!!!

Anyone who knows a little about this type of Racing, knows about tracks like Atlanta, Texas, Miami, Indianapolis, Dover, knows that the LFS Oval Track has a rubbish layout! No Oval Track in the World does look close to the Kyoto Oval.

We need a decent Oval Track, and a NASCAR Stockcar type of car!!!! *Rant Over* Thank you :)

[lizardfolk]

Aston is Great.
Westhill is Great.
Blackwood is Great.
Fern Bay is Great.
South City is Great.

But the Oval track in LFS is so bad it's not even funny anymore!!!

Anyone who knows a little about this type of Racing, knows about tracks like Atlanta, Texas, Miami, Indianapolis, Dover, knows that the LFS Oval Track has a rubbish layout! No Oval Track in the World does look close to the Kyoto Oval.

We need a decent Oval Track, and a NASCAR Stockcar type of car!!!! *Rant Over* Thank you :)

Dont forget Bristol. Boy, racing's exciting in Bristol, love to have that here in LsF (RFactor has it why cant LsF?)

[George Kuyumji]

Live Speed For? :rolleyes2

[lizardfolk]

If you guys want the traditional Stock Car model, then Nascar is not good. Better off with the USAR. The USAR cars are more fragile but they are more a long the line of traditional stock cars

[EvilVendingMachine]

Anyone who knows a little about this type of Racing, knows about tracks like Atlanta, Texas, Miami, Indianapolis, Dover, knows that the LFS Oval Track has a rubbish layout! No Oval Track in the World does look close to the Kyoto Oval.
Actually, it has a very similar shape to pheonix, it's just alot bigger.
Anyway, i would love to see an accurate replication of Darlington in LFS.
That would shut the oval haters in LFS up. :) Ovals take no skill to drive. lol

[lizardfolk]

Actually, it has a very similar shape to pheonix, it's just alot bigger.
Anyway, i would love to see an accurate replication of Darlington in LFS.
That would shut the oval haters in LFS up. :) Ovals take no skill to drive. lol

OMG the lady in black LOL. So many ppl would hit the wall on that track :P

[EeekiE]

It's not that they take no skill, it's that they take less skill :tilt: :D

Although I don't know if skill is the right word. Perhaps strain. On car and driver.

[lizardfolk]

It's not that they take no skill, it's that they take less skill :tilt: :D

Although I don't know if skill is the right word. Perhaps strain. On car and driver.

I wouldn't say less skill, i'd say a different kind of skill. I rarely see road courses have a field of over 20. Where in ovals it's usually 40+.

Oval tracks aren't hard by itself, but in a field with that magnitude it'll take skill to do good. Besides road course ppl have been known to struggle in ovals and vise versa. (hideo fukuyama and christian fittipaldi).

it's like comparing rally to road courses, totally different skill, totally different kind of discipline.

No matter what you may think, just remember this: NO professional racing is easy.

[EeekiE]

Of course, but then you get people trying to claim events like Drag are just as challenging as any circuit based event. They all have their challenges, but they're not all equal. I personally fail to see how 5 seconds is a race. That's just the start of a race. Most races start from a stop with an aggressive take off to gain the crucial first places :razz:

I also don't think amount of cars makes it much harder? It's just more cars. Le Mans has it's fair share of entries, and they all seem to go around in pretty tight packs for the first few hours.

I guess when someone loves something they just want to preach it to the world as the best thing ever. Must be human nature or something.

[lizardfolk]

Drag is hard on the mechanic, but not the driver.

I may be wrong but I do not think that you constantly go 3-4 wide with 10 cars within .5 second of you in Le Mans. Although it's a pack, it's normally at most side by side.

With ovals that's a daily think :)

I also didn't say it's the best thing ever. I like F1 and GT almost as much as nascar. I just hate ppl claiming that ovals are a walk in the park and any idiot off the street can do well on an oval. (that really piss me off).

[Motordirex]

We have some really great tracks in LFS, but KY Oval is a sad excuse for an Oval Track.

Good. Ovals are lame and theres no fun in them. Michael Schumacher had to stop himself from bashing NASCAR drivers at the Race of Champions a few years back. "They think they are going fast, but..." he said. Laughed my ass off.

[lizardfolk]

Good. Ovals are lame and theres no fun in them. Michael Schumacher had to stop himself from bashing NASCAR drivers at the Race of Champions a few years back. "They think they are going fast, but..." he said. Laughed my ass off.

So that's the reason why great road course drivers like Hideo Fukuyama, Christian Fittipaldi and Juan Pablo Montoya (he did so bad this week end) had struggle in ovals -_-.

Many road course drivers gave up their seat for ovals. Ricky Charmichael, Juan Pablo Montoya, even Paul Tracy like the ovals. (and they all struggled as well)

Not to mention that Sebastian Bourdais said the greatest competition he ever got in racing was from Nascar champ Mark Martin in the IROC (oval series).

[George Kuyumji]

Good. Ovals are lame and theres no fun in them. Michael Schumacher had to stop himself from bashing NASCAR drivers at the Race of Champions a few years back. "They think they are going fast, but..." he said. Laughed my ass off.

The ignorance is amazing.

Racing in an Oval needs alot of skill, thats why F1 drivers struggle there.

If you think you know Oval Racing from LFS, you have no idea, because LFS doesnt have a proper Oval Track.

Going 330 km/h centimeters next to each other, drifting towards a wall at the edge of the Grip limit, sometimes with three cars next to each other is very challenging, thats why Montoya needs to learn alot before he will be good in it.

And Montoya is a Champ Car Champion and won the Indy 500.

Like I said, the ignorance towards Oval Racing is amazing, especially in Europe were alot of people just dont know much about it. And most of the time you cannot explain or reason with these people. They are just like drunken Soccer Fans who try to tell a F1 follower that racing an F1 car is easy.

[lizardfolk]

The ignorance is amazing.

Racing in an Oval needs alot of skill, thats why F1 drivers struggle there.

If you think you know Oval Racing from LFS, you have no idea, because LFS doesnt have a proper Oval Track.

Going 330 km/h centimeters next to each other, drifting towards a wall at the edge of the Grip limit, sometimes with three cars next to each other is very challenging, thats why Montoya needs to learn alot before he will be good in it.

And Montoya is a Champ Car Champion and won the Indy 500.

Like I said, the ignorance towards Oval Racing is amazing, especially in Europe were alot of people just dont know much about it. And most of the time you cannot explain or reason with these people. They are just like drunken Soccer Fans who try to tell a F1 follower that racing an F1 car is easy.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! I though I'd be a outcast here. :) The division between ovals and road courses fans are greatly defined and unessecary. Both provide great racing.

[lizardfolk]

Expectation for Montoya in the Nascar series are sky high and they shouldn't be. He's already having great difficulty with California and Bristol but hey he's doing better then Fittipaldi and Fukuyama.

The oval pit stops is what he has the most trouble. He's not use to 30-43 cars all jammed in pit road (he even ran into someone in Cali)

[EeekiE]

Just because a guy is good at flying a plane doesn't mean he's automatically going to be good at flying a kyte.

[EvilVendingMachine]

Just because a guy is good at flying a plane doesn't mean he's automatically going to be good at flying a kyte.
ooo, I think this thread just became deep and meaningfull. :razz:
Sarcasm aside, I see a good number of road course lovers who bash oval racing,
yet i rarely see any oval lovers bash road course racing.
Hmm, something to think about.

[lizardfolk]

ooo, I think this thread just became deep and meaningfull. :razz:
Sarcasm aside, I see a good number of road course lovers who bash oval racing,
yet i rarely see any oval lovers bash road course racing.
Hmm, something to think about.

Omg you have not been to the Cot forums for RFactor LOL.

But it's mainly because the ovals "appear" easy. "After all, how hard is it to drive in circles?"

But of course also I know people who say that all forms of racing are lame and easy. "there's no point, it's the faster car that wins. it's boring."

[George Kuyumji]

ooo, I think this thread just became deep and meaningfull. :razz:
Sarcasm aside, I see a good number of road course lovers who bash oval racing,
yet i rarely see any oval lovers bash road course racing.
Hmm, something to think about.

Thats mainly because most Oval Racing Fans are dedicated Motorsport Fans who know how to enjoy different types of Motorsport. While most Road Racing Fans just dont know much about Oval Racing.

You cannot explain to a Soccer Fan that Racing F1 is exciting and difficult if he doesnt want to know about it, same goes to Road Racing Fans who bash Oval Racing, most of them just dont know about Oval Racing and if there ignorant they start bashing something they have no clue about. The funny thing is, some of them think there smart saying Oval Racing is easy, while they are totally close minded and cannot think out of the box = :hide:

[EeekiE]

Thats mainly because most Oval Racing Fans are dedicated Motorsport Fans who know how to enjoy different types of Motorsport. While most Road Racing Fans just dont know much about Oval Racing.

That's just been pulled out of your rectum right there. I'm sure I could find plenty of people from both sides, that fit both descriptions. Most of the NASCAR fans I've met on generic international car forums like Streetfire or even eBaums have been FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from all-round motorsport fans. Take a look.

[George Kuyumji]

That's just been pulled out of your rectum right there. I'm sure I could find plenty of people from both sides, that fit both descriptions. Most of the NASCAR fans I've met on generic international car forums like Streetfire or even eBaums have been FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from all-round motorsport fans. Take a look.

Well of course you can find people from both sides that fit both descriptions :rolleyes:

But most NASCAR Fans do also follow Road Racing, even NASCAR itself has Road Racing, while alot (that doesnt mean all or close to all) Road Racing Fans especially in Europe do not follow Oval Racing, infact alot of them are F1-only watchers.

[EeekiE]

Yes but, alot (that doesnt mean all or close to all) of Oval Fans especially in America do not follow anything but Oval Racing, infact alot of them are Oval-only watchers.

It works exactly both ways. No-one is hard done by.

[boosterfire]

The CoT definitely looks like a big ... American car... who really likes to drink petrol... a lot. I really don't see why they call something that does 8 miles to the gallon the car of tomorrow. :shy:

[lizardfolk]

who says they are all from america? You got to remember stock car racing is popular in Canada (cascar), mexico (corona series) and australia too. Therefore ovals are popular there.

[George Kuyumji]

Yes but, alot (that doesnt mean all or close to all) of Oval Fans especially in America do not follow anything but Oval Racing, infact alot of them are Oval-only watchers.

It works exactly both ways. No-one is hard done by.

NASCAR is Racing on Road Courses, IndyCar is Racing on Road Courses and also Champ Car is Racing on Road courses.

Despite of that your missing the point. The question was about bashing other types of Motorsports.

[EeekiE]

What point? You said most oval fans respect other forms of motorsport, while fans of others don't and just bash Oval out of ignorance.
I'm saying I've met more die-hard Oval fans on none race sim forums who are just as ignorant to other forms of motorsport and claim Oval is the most demanding. The same goes for drag, and the same will go, as you say to die-hard F1 fans etc etc. It's the same with everything. Oval fans are no exception.
I've had a guy try to explain to me Drag is the most extreme form of racing as they have the most HP and they reach the highest speeds. When I mention that other forms of racing also demand you learn lines, braking points, fuel mangement etc they've gone on to tell me how important the burn out is before a run, and how it must be just right. :razz: You get it everywhere, against any sport. Oval isn't the only one targetted.

[boosterfire]

who says they are all from america? You got to remember stock car racing is popular in Canada (cascar), mexico (corona series) and australia too. Therefore ovals are popular there.

Last time I checked, Cascar has never been really popular in Canada. In fact, Nascar is probably more popular than Cascar here; Cascar just looks too much like the crappy series made out of Nascar's product. If you list sports in USA, Nascar will probably come 2nd or something, in the top 5 for sure. Cascar in Canada? Probably after Fishing :)

[dawesdust_12]

Cascar = lower than Soccer(football for crazy brits) in canada.

[March Hare]

On thing that you have to admit about nascar and indy. The leader changes during racing. Not during pitting as it does in f1.

Tried to watch f1 after a three year pause because Schumacher left but it was the same old poo. Räikkönen led from start to finish. boooooooooooring

So what if he is a fin like me? Still boring. Ok I believe it takes a lot of skill to drive that fast around a track but for all I care they could drive the whole race behind the pacecar. It would propably be just as exiting.

[/rant]

[lizardfolk]

On thing that you have to admit about nascar and indy. The leader changes during racing. Not during pitting as it does in f1.

Tried to watch f1 after a three year pause because Schumacher left but it was the same old poo. Räikkönen led from start to finish. boooooooooooring

So what if he is a fin like me? Still boring. Ok I believe it takes a lot of skill to drive that fast around a track but for all I care they could drive the whole race behind the pacecar. It would propably be just as exiting.

[/rant]

that's not always true with nascar although it is usually true with F1 (2005 season?)

I was also told by someone that stock car racing has a big fan base in Canada. Oh, well.

BTW Cascar fire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojp58qigt1o :D

[Woz]

On thing that you have to admit about nascar and indy. The leader changes during racing. Not during pitting as it does in f1.

Tried to watch f1 after a three year pause because Schumacher left but it was the same old poo. Räikkönen led from start to finish. boooooooooooring

So what if he is a fin like me? Still boring. Ok I believe it takes a lot of skill to drive that fast around a track but for all I care they could drive the whole race behind the pacecar. It would propably be just as exiting.

[/rant]

Yep, F1 has been like that for years now. The cars are just too good and too fast to allow racing, its really a hotlap sport. It takes huge skill to drive an F1 fast and as mach as I hate the shoe maker I can't deny he is one of the best. That said it's just so boring to watch.

When I moved to NZ I found the Aussie V8's, finally a motor sport worth watching :thumb:

Paint swapping action where people overtake. The cars are big lumbering tanks with massive blocks that need to run 5 deg camber on the front wheels so they can turn a corner. Run these monsters for 1000Km round the mental track that is Bathurst and you get the perfect race :)

[George Kuyumji]

What point? You said most oval fans respect other forms of motorsport, while fans of others don't and just bash Oval out of ignorance.
I'm saying I've met more die-hard Oval fans on none race sim forums who are just as ignorant to other forms of motorsport and claim Oval is the most demanding. The same goes for drag, and the same will go, as you say to die-hard F1 fans etc etc. It's the same with everything. Oval fans are no exception.
I've had a guy try to explain to me Drag is the most extreme form of racing as they have the most HP and they reach the highest speeds. When I mention that other forms of racing also demand you learn lines, braking points, fuel mangement etc they've gone on to tell me how important the burn out is before a run, and how it must be just right. :razz: You get it everywhere, against any sport. Oval isn't the only one targetted.

I know Hundreds of NASCAR Fans Online for years, and I have NEVER EVER seen a Oval Fan bashing Road Racing. But I have seen countless times some foolish Road Racing Fans thinking Oval Racing doesnt demand any skill, is easy, boring and just bash it altogether.
Thats why the question was raised.

[EvilVendingMachine]

I know Hundreds of NASCAR Fans Online for years, and I have NEVER EVER seen a Oval Fan bashing Road Racing. But I have seen countless times some foolish Road Racing Fans thinking Oval Racing doesnt demand any skill, is easy, boring and just bash it altogether.
Thats why the question was raised.
Same here (which is why I raised the question in the first place) but I guess I'm lucky and don't go on the boards with ignorant oval racing fans.

Also, I never said that oval lovers never bash road racing, i just said that I rarely see it. That is just my personal observation and, admittedly, a little ignorant on my part.

[Crashgate3]

Racing in an Oval needs alot of skill, thats why F1 drivers struggle there.

*coughNigelMansellcough*

[Cue-Ball]

[quote=lizardfolk;372560]Drag is hard on the mechanic, but not the driver./quote]You obviously have never raced anything in the 11 second or less range. Drag racing is a LOT harder than people who haven't done it seem to think. You don't just mash the gas and steer in a straight line. There are a ton of nuances that can seriously affect performance or send you into the wall (or the other lane). Drag racing is something that PC sims have never modeled well because they do not take into account changing track conditions, different traction for each tire, different traction out of the groove, etc.

Drag racing is not as physically demanding as road racing, since you're not strapped in a 130* car for two hours straight. But it still takes a ton of skill (unless you're racing your mom's Honda) and you can lose the whole race in the blink of an eye. One mistake and your race is over. There is no chance to come back for a win and no way to make up the lost time.

[Cue-Ball]

I know Hundreds of NASCAR Fans Online for years, and I have NEVER EVER seen a Oval Fan bashing Road Racing. But I have seen countless times some foolish Road Racing Fans thinking Oval Racing doesnt demand any skill, is easy, boring and just bash it altogether.
Thats why the question was raised.I don't think that most road race fans really believe that oval racing doesn't take skill. It obviously does. But that doesn't mean it isn't boring to some people.

Making a perfect banzai tree takes a lot of skill, but you won't catch me watching it on TV.

[George Kuyumji]

Yes Nigel the Lion Mansell won the F1 Championship AND the CART Championship. He also managed to win 3 Oval Races which was an amazing archivement.

Montoya is also a CART Champion and also a Indy 500 Winner, he has yet to come close to win a NASCAR Cup Race, but he is doing good so far.

[EeekiE]

Yes but you seem to be suggesting the reason is that NASCAR is more challenging than F1 when you mention all the ex-F1 drivers that have moved into it. How many NASCAR drivers have moved into F1 and been successfull?

[PMD9409]

Ok, so if Nascar is considered more "challenging", i just think more competitive, then why would nascar drivers switch over to F1? Doesn't make sense, who would want to switch to a less competitive type of racing?

[EvilVendingMachine]

Yes but you seem to be suggesting the reason is that NASCAR is more challenging than F1 when you mention all the ex-F1 drivers that have moved into it. How many NASCAR drivers have moved into F1 and been successfull?
Well, no oval driver has moved into F1(to my knowledge), so there is no way to tell if they would be successfull. Jeff Gordon took a spin in an
F1 car a couple of years ago and was running competitive laps fairly quickly. If any oval driver has moved to F1, please tell me about it.
I would be very interested.

[lizardfolk]

More compedative? EXACTLY. It's not just Nascar alone but all stock car racing.

In road course racing it is INCREDIBLY easy to fall behind, and once that happens you really do not race against very much people.

In nascar or stock car racing, it's an oval. You almost always see or racing against a ton of people. (superspeedways are not included) No matter how slow you are going. This is the fun in oval.

[lizardfolk]

Well, no oval driver has moved into F1(to my knowledge), so there is no way to tell if they would be successfull. Jeff Gordon took a spin in an
F1 car a couple of years ago and was running competitive laps fairly quickly. If any oval driver has moved to F1, please tell me about it.
I would be very interested.

Not in F1, but I've know people in Nascar that moved to road courses before. I can name a few right now. Tony Steward (but he likes ovals the best because of the competition), Boris Said and Robby Gordon.

And yes Jeff Gordon was running quite well in F1 when he first tried it. That surprised me greatly. But of course, Gordon isen't doing too well in Nascar right now and he wants to win a few more champions before going into F1.

[mrodgers]

Not in F1, but I've know people in Nascar that moved to road courses before. I can name a few right now. Tony Steward (but he likes ovals the best because of the competition), Boris Said and Robby Gordon.

And yes Jeff Gordon was running quite well in F1 when he first tried it. That surprised me greatly. But of course, Gordon isen't doing too well in Nascar right now and he wants to win a few more champions before going into F1.
Please lizardfolk, you are starting to make yourself look bad here....

Tony Stewart (2nd time correction here on your spelling of his name :D ) comes FROM running sprint cars and Indy cars. THEN he got into Nascar. Boris Said comes FROM road course racing, THEN he got into Nascar. And finally, Robby Gordon came FROM Baja racing and, did he do Indycar? I think. THEN he got into Nascar.

Jeff Gordon was NOT running quite well in F1, because he has never run in F1. He had driven an F1 car on the track, but had never run in F1 racing.

[lizardfolk]

Please lizardfolk, you are starting to make yourself look bad here....

Tony Stewart (2nd time correction here on your spelling of his name :D ) comes FROM running sprint cars and Indy cars. THEN he got into Nascar. Boris Said comes FROM road course racing, THEN he got into Nascar. And finally, Robby Gordon came FROM Baja racing and, did he do Indycar? I think. THEN he got into Nascar.

Jeff Gordon was NOT running quite well in F1, because he has never run in F1. He had driven an F1 car on the track, but had never run in F1 racing.

LOL ok sorry my bad :( I'm slightly drunk now dont pay attention to anything i say today.....in fact i think i'll go to sleep.

BTW when i said he ran well i was talking about the laptimes :)

[wark]

but for those of use who live in the American continents (American, Canada, Mexico). It'd be a nice addition.

LIES! don't listen to him! :schwitz:

[dawesdust_12]

I'd rather have a bus in LFS, and yes, I am being serious, that would be some ****ing hilarious racing.

[Zachary Zoomy]

I'd rather have a bus in LFS, and yes, I am being serious, that would be some ****ing hilarious racing.

i think the uf1 is as slow as a bus. I know I'll go make a bus skin for the uf1!

[JJ72]

Well, no oval driver has moved into F1(to my knowledge), so there is no way to tell if they would be successfull. Jeff Gordon took a spin in an
F1 car a couple of years ago and was running competitive laps fairly quickly. If any oval driver has moved to F1, please tell me about it.
I would be very interested.

Well that's because most of them cannot make it into F1.

Micheal Andretti, the indy500 winner, raced in F1 in 1993, only scored 7 points in his 13 race season( while his team mate senna, in the same car, won 5 races, took second place in the world championship) before he quit and returned to america.

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

This is quite a good thread actually.

WTH is Cascar? :shrug: :D :tilt:

I don't think anyone can deny that all forms of motorsport have their challenges, and they are diverse challenges for different forms. Motocross for example always tilts my chicken; those guys are amazing! Even drag as Cueball pointed out is a lot more involved than it appears. I once saw a 9.x second car that could not put one decent run together. One of them was laying rubber all the way down the track because his suspension setup was poop. His competitor's car got the front of the car about 15 inches off the ground on every launch and ran 9s, whilst all Mr Smoke was able to do was light em up no matter what he did.

I guess this is just another endless debate :shrug:

At least this isn't as nasty as the other ones :razz:

I don't want a bus until the collision physics are complete :D

[lizardfolk]

Well that's because most of them cannot make it into F1.

Micheal Andretti, the indy500 winner, raced in F1 in 1993, only scored 7 points in his 13 race season( while his team mate senna, in the same car, won 5 races, took second place in the world championship) before he quit and returned to america.

Ah i feel much better after that few hour nap :)

It goes both ways. I have yet to see a F1 driver, do well in Nascar. Montoya so far is comming the closest (15th in points, not bad not bad at all) and he might win a race in the near future. However, his team needs to work on his CoT races. He could barely keep up with even Kenny Wallace at Bristol LOL.

Cascar: Canadian association for stock car auto racing. From what I've been told by the ppl here, Cascar is not popular what so ever.

There's millions of stock car racing, just Nascar, ARCA, and USAR are the most popular ones. (And they all are coincidentally in the USA)

[JJ72]

Mansell did well in the Champcar oval rounds, so that counts? it's not nascar but it's still oval.

I for one think it's rather slim chance for circuit racers to enter the oval scene cos it's still very strictly an american sport, most accomplised drivers won't like to go there, they will rather race sports car or GT. Be it a factor of the generalization towards oval racing or the cause of it.

For the other way though, Oval racers ain't always interested in F1 since F1 isn't that popular in the states, and where Nascar is a much bigger sport.

[EeekiE]

Please can you explain to me how it being easier to gain places makes it more competitive? I was under the impression, mainly due to the English language, that competition increases when your competitors are more competitive; not less. If one guy is massively ahead it's because he's massively better, thus making the competition harder.

I've nothing against people loving NASCAR although it does nothing for me. But there seems to be a growing trend lately with NASCAR fans on international car forums of a kind of pro-active paranoid defence of their beloved sport. To the point of trying to make it out to be the pinnacle of motorsport, instead of just accepting it for what it is and enjoying it no matter what.

[W1LLSD4D]

...
Micheal Andretti, the indy500 winner, ...


Err when?

[Gentlefoot]

For me the only car type that would be of any significant difference to what we already have in LFS would be prototypes. Imagine hacking round Aston National in an Audi R8 equivalent.

These cars have major grunt and top end speed and would be a buzz to drive on high speed circuits. Aston Historic would be perfect for these cars.

[EvilVendingMachine]

A few things i have remembered-
I beleive Montoya actually raced CART before going to F1, or maybe it Champcar, or maybe this was before the two series split, I don't know.

Cascar was actually bought by Nascar not too long ago.
And finally, Robby Gordon came FROM Baja racing and, did he do Indycar? I think. THEN he got into Nascar.



Yes, Robby Gordon did race Indy cars. (I remember him bitching a few years back about Danika Patrick being so light and it being an unfair advantage.)

[duke_toaster]

Cascar was actually bought by Nascar not too long ago.

CASCAR Super Series is becoming the NASCAR Canadian Tyre Series - NASCAR are also starting a Mexican series as well. Rumour has it that for 2008 or 2009 they will change over to the Busch series regulations.

I think CASCAR run a silly A1GP style season, but I'm not sure.

The sooner Canadian Tyre Series and Corona Mexico change to Busch rulebooks. Corona Mexico uses the previous Mexican series' rules, and Canadian Tyre Series uses the old CASCAR cars.

The CaTS (Note the "a" to not get confused with the trucks) probably will act as a support event at Pocono unless the Trucks or Busch race at NASCAR's most interesting track. The only problem is that 500 miles is too much for Pocono and maybe 400 miles would be more appropriate, it's very shallow and very odd.

[srdsprinter]

Actually, Nextel Cup Stock Cars (NASCAR's top class) is quite a bit different to anything we have in LFS:

Weight. ~3400+lbs ~1550kg Heavy.
Tires. The tires are much narrower than the GTR class.
Power. V8 with ~800hp. Powerband 5500-9000+RPM
Downforce. Very little.
Solid Rear Axle. 4-Speed manual.

Around Kyoto, a cup car would really be tricky, able to get some huge speed 200+ mph, but would really take a lot of skill and patience to get through the turns. It would be a real handful to go side-by-side esp round the start-finish area. Definatly requiring braking in the turns.

Driving them around a road course would really require a lot of skill/patience. So much power with so little tire/downforce would really be very tricky & frustrating to 'n00bs'. The really aren't particularly rewarding cars to drive as far as I can tell.

Do I want one in LFS.... Not particularly.

There are NASCAR games already out there.
Oval racing around kyoto would Not be easy, therefore unpopular.
A talladega track would provide good Cup racing, but a total waste for everything else in LFS.
Short-track might be fun, but the thrill would wear off quick, too much wrecking for casual online.

There are Many things I'd like in LFS before NASCAR (more AI racers).

[PMD9409]

Please can you explain to me how it being easier to gain places makes it more competitive? I was under the impression, mainly due to the English language, that competition increases when your competitors are more competitive; not less. If one guy is massively ahead it's because he's massively better, thus making the competition harder.


Well if that was true, then F1 would be considered competitive. IMO, a motorsport is competitive when more than just 5 cars are fast. In F1, after the start of the race you can tell that about 3 to 5 cars have a chance to win. In Nascar, even if there is only 25 laps to go, there is still about 10 to 15 cars that are fast [I know there is only like 5 to 10, but something could happen(pit strategy) that changes the whole race]. So I think Nascar is more competitive because they have many more cars that have a chance to win.

[srdsprinter]

Well if that was true, then F1 would be considered competitive. IMO, a motorsport is competitive when more than just 5 cars are fast. In F1, after the start of the race you can tell that about 3 to 5 cars have a chance to win. In Nascar, even if there is only 25 laps to go, there is still about 10 to 15 cars that are fast [I know there is only like 5 to 10, but something could happen(pit strategy) that changes the whole race]. So I think Nascar is more competitive because they have many more cars that have a chance to win.

Yeah, because they have 43 entrants every weekend, mainly 3 and 4 car teams. You let all the F1 teams have 4 cars and 40+ entries, there will be the same number of competative cars as NASCAR.

[EeekiE]

I was looking at it in a Darwin sense, in that, if you fall behind in skill/tech you're out of the race.

[lizardfolk]

Yeah, because they have 43 entrants every weekend, mainly 3 and 4 car teams. You let all the F1 teams have 4 cars and 40+ entries, there will be the same number of competative cars as NASCAR.

Not really. Not all teams have 4 cars, only a few. Most teams just have 1 or 2. Lots of teams are stuggling with just 1 or 2 cars in the field. Only the big or compedative teams like Childress, DEI, Hendrick and Roush has 3-4 cars.

Furnature Row Racing has only 1 car, Front Row Motorsports has only 1 car, BAM Racing has only 1 car, Ganassi has 2 cars, and Red Bull has 2 cars, Petty Enterprise has only 2 cars.
And dont forget the independent teams like Faith Motorsports, Ash Racing, and Shelmerdine Racing with only, once again, 1 car.

And they dont have 43 entries, they have around 49-55 each race. Just the top 43 make it into the race. Dont compare nascar to F1, nascar has millions of teams.

Dont forget in Nascar, ALL THE CARS, are a factor. It's an oval not a road course so the field wont be so spread out. Lapped cars will make a huge difference in the out come of a race (especially since they restart double file).

In a road course, after a few minutes the field will be so spread out that you'll end up racing only a few people. In nascar, you almost always race in a pack because the field is so bunched up.

[EeekiE]

Not really. Not all teams have 4 cars, only a few. Most teams just have 1 or 2. Lots of teams are stuggling with just 1 or 2 cars in the field. Only the big or compedative teams like Childress, DEI, Hendrick and Roush has 3-4 cars.

Furnature Row Racing has only 1 car, Front Row Motorsports has only 1 car, BAM Racing has only 1 car, Ganassi has 2 cars, and Red Bull has 2 cars, Petty Enterprise has only 2 cars.
And dont forget the independent teams like Faith Motorsports, Ash Racing, and Shelmerdine Racing with only, once again, 1 car.

And they dont have 43 entries, they have around 49-55 each race. Just the top 43 make it into the race. Dont compare nascar to F1, nascar has millions of teams.

Dont forget in Nascar, ALL THE CARS, are a factor. It's an oval not a road course so the field wont be so spread out. Lapped cars will make a huge difference in the out come of a race (especially since they restart double file).

In a road course, after a few minutes the field will be so spread out that you'll end up racing only a few people. In nascar, you almost always race in a pack because the field is so bunched up.

Yeah but you're assuming everyone wants to see cars all bunched up. I for one don't. I like the how circuit races end up being loads of personal 1v1 battles. I like how circuits are that demanding it carves up the pack.
The fact NASCAR is easy enough for them all to group hug ISN'T a bonus in my eyes, it's a negative.

[lizardfolk]

Yeah but you're assuming everyone wants to see cars all bunched up. I for one don't. I like the how circuit races end up being loads of personal 1v1 battles. I like how circuits are that demanding it carves up the pack.
The fact NASCAR is easy enough for them all to group hug ISN'T a bonus in my eyes, it's a negative.

Here's where there's a difference in taste and probably the ultimate reason for a division between road courses and oval fans.

I love racing in a pack. It's incredibly fun and the race could be won by anyone.

You'll get 1vs1 battles in ovals but it doesnt happen as often as a road course. Where ovals are fun is going 3-4 wide with 20 cars within 2 seconds of you and trying still to beat everyone to the finish.

Of course what is fun and what is not really depends on your racing taste.

[lizardfolk]

I've nothing against people loving NASCAR although it does nothing for me. But there seems to be a growing trend lately with NASCAR fans on international car forums of a kind of pro-active paranoid defence of their beloved sport. To the point of trying to make it out to be the pinnacle of motorsport, instead of just accepting it for what it is and enjoying it no matter what.

Replying to your previous post Eeekie:

Your probably refering to me. However, I never said ovals is the best kind of racing there is. I love road courses as much as the next guy, however I'd prefer ovals over road courses. (for reasons i explained in my previous post)

I was probably too hostile when I came here and I apologize for that. However, since this is mainly international forum, I expected everyone who's not a nascar fan (which I assumed that everyone here isen't a nascar or oval fan) to bash on ovals.

There's been countless of time where I've been banned just because I prefer ovals more than road courses. Oval fans may be a little "paranoid", but there's a cause for it.

[EeekiE]

I've no problems with that like I said, but for a while the thread went off on a tangent trying to show how more challenging than anything else, when it isn't; but that's OK. It's like you can be a fan of running, but be utterly disinterested in triathlon, because swimming and cycling don't entertain you as much as the running. That doesn't mean running is easy, but it doesn't mean just running is harder than triathlon. Where more and different skills are required. But perhaps the running side of moving about is what really gets you going and you live for, that's cool.

Atleast we're reasoning rather than resorting to insults or that shockwave flash insult you've been dying to use because you saw it used somewhere else :D

[EvilVendingMachine]

Not really. Not all teams have 4 cars, only a few. Most teams just have 1 or 2. Lots of teams are stuggling with just 1 or 2 cars in the field. Only the big or competitive teams like Childress, DEI, Hendrick and Roush has 3-4 cars.


You drunk again? lol anyway, you seem to be exgagerating a little. At most Nascar
races, the battles are 2 to 5 car battles. The cars still get spread out, just not as
much as in road course racing.

[lizardfolk]

You drunk again? lol anyway, you seem to be exgagerating a little. At most Nascar
races, the battles are 2 to 5 car battles. The cars still get spread out, just not as
much as in road course racing.

I've been drinking a bit but not to the point where i'm drunk (i think :D)

I really depends on the track. In Pheonix the racing is usually single file. But in Daytona and Talladega (and all short tracks) it's exactly like how I descibed it.

I may have exaggerated a little, but of course i've been watching USAR (short track series) more than nascar recently.:thumb:

[srdsprinter]

And they dont have 43 entries, they have around 49-55 each race. Just the top 43 make it into the race. Dont compare nascar to F1, nascar has millions of teams.

Dont forget in Nascar, ALL THE CARS, are a factor. It's an oval not a road course so the field wont be so spread out. Lapped cars will make a huge difference in the out come of a race (especially since they restart double file).


Nascar doesn't have Millions of teams, stop being rediculous.

Last time I checked, NASCAR and F1 are both forms of Motorsports, so Why can't I compare them? Montoya has done both, so can he compare them?

Like I said, each Nextel Cup race has 43 entrants. And No, its not the top 43 of the ~50 qualifiers that make the race. After last weekend, the top 35 in points are gaurenteed spots, then past championship provisionals, then the rest of the 43 spots are determined by speed.

There is no "Nascar". NASCAR stands for the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing.

All cars don't matter in NASCAR. In the Busch Series, Truck Series, and other regional circuits, many many cars don't finish the race, and not because of crashes. Lesser funded teams in Busch will qualify, race a couple of laps, then pull off with "handling issues" just to collect the last place money. The Truck series usually only has 25-35 trucks per race, many without major sponsorship. And I suppose all the cars that DNF for mechanical and crashes really impact the remaining cars.

Actually NASCAR competes on road courses across the country and beyond. Did you miss Montoya taking the Busch racers to school in Mexico City, Mexico?

Lapped cars impact the races, sometimes. Superspeedways, not really. Road courses, infrequently. Californa and Michigan, maybe. 1.5 mile ovals, every now and then. Short tracks, sure, but they're not taking leaders out every race. Double file restarts are only with more than 10 laps to go.

Stop the overexagerating.

[EeekiE]

And F1 isn't the biggest Motorsport in my neck of the woods by a long way anyway. Biggest thing at the moment seems to be the Superbikes, followed by WRC and BTCC.

[lizardfolk]

Nascar doesn't have Millions of teams, stop being rediculous.

There is no "Nascar". NASCAR stands for the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing.

Ya ok I'm exaggerating. But did you even read my previous post??? That's EXACTLY what I've said. It's easier to refer to Nascar, but of you want to be technical then I'll say Stock Car Racing from now on.

All cars don't matter in NASCAR. In the Busch Series, Truck Series, and other regional circuits, many many cars don't finish the race, and not because of crashes. Lesser funded teams in Busch will qualify, race a couple of laps, then pull off with "handling issues" just to collect the last place money. The Truck series usually only has 25-35 trucks per race, many without major sponsorship. And I suppose all the cars that DNF for mechanical and crashes really impact the remaining cars.

Actually NASCAR competes on road courses across the country and beyond. Did you miss Montoya taking the Busch racers to school in Mexico City, Mexico?

Lapped cars impact the races, sometimes. Superspeedways, not really. Road courses, infrequently. Californa and Michigan, maybe. 1.5 mile ovals, every now and then. Short tracks, sure, but they're not taking leaders out every race. Double file restarts are only with more than 10 laps to go.


You did not see the race where 7 laps down car Kevin Lepage ruined the win for Jimmie Johnson. Johnson was cool about it, but it pissed a lot of people fans. This happens quite often where leaders will sometimes sometimes get bogged down in lap traffic. Sometimes the victim is the lapped car itself. Expecially in short tracks. I agree, in superspeedways (except talladega) the cars are greatly spread out. In 1.5 miles not as much but there's still large empty spots on the track. Still a lot bunched up then a road course.

Road courses in nascar happen only 2 races. At Infinion, and Watkins Glen. That's it. 2 out of 35 races is really nothing special. (This is Nextel only, I dont watch Busch so I dont know their schedual, but I believe they add another road course: Mexico City)

The mexican nascar series (Corona series) will probably have more road courses.

[srdsprinter]

You did not see the race where 7 laps down car Kevin Lepage ruined the win for Jimmie Johnson.

Yes I did.


Road courses in nascar happen only 2 races.

Again, WRONG! (Not really a sentance either btw.)



At Infinion, and Watkins Glen. That's it. 2 out of 35 races is really nothing special. (This is Nextel only, I dont watch Busch so I dont know their schedual, but I believe they add another road course: Mexico City)


2 Nextel Cup races, yes. But How does 2 out of 35 = 'really nothing special'? Isn't that a little backwards?

[EvilVendingMachine]

All cars don't matter in NASCAR. In the Busch Series, Truck Series, and other regional circuits, many many cars don't finish the race, and not because of crashes. Lesser funded teams in Busch will qualify, race a couple of laps, then pull off with "handling issues" just to collect the last place money. The Truck series usually only has 25-35 trucks per race, many without major sponsorship. And I suppose all the cars that DNF for mechanical and crashes really impact the remaining cars.

Actually NASCAR competes on road courses across the country and beyond. Did you miss Montoya taking the Busch racers to school in Mexico City, Mexico?

The truck series almost always has a full field of 36 trucks, and less cars DNF than you would make seem.(Excluding Talladega:) )

Montoya did have newer tires at the end of the Mexico race, though he was one of the fastest cars all day.

[srdsprinter]

Actually, I Just looked at the past 6 Truck races, 3 this year, and the last 3 from 06.

Only Half of the past 6 have had full 36 starters, and only 1 this year. So no, not "almost all" races are full.

Plus I did a little game of how many trucks did less than 10 laps.
2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, including one who didn't even start. Notice a pattern?

[EvilVendingMachine]

Actually, I Just looked at the past 6 Truck races, 3 this year, and the last 3 from 06.

Only Half of the past 6 have had full 36 starters, and only 1 this year. So no, not "almost all" races are full.

Plus I did a little game of how many trucks did less than 10 laps.
2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, including one who didn't even start. Notice a pattern?
I also looked at the races you quoted, and there was no truck who didn't even start.
You might be refering to Mike Wallace, who was wrecked during the second lap of this years Daytona race.

And, of the 9 trucks that didn't run 10 laps, i counted 5 or 6 that had legitamite problems.

And i never said all races were full, i said almost all. and if you look at 2006, almost all were full. Actually, all but 1.:)

[battle]

I'm from europe, netherlands. I watch NASCAR, i watch WRC, i watch F1 and i watch A1GP. All of them i find very exciting forms of motorsports. Every branch of motorsports has there own excitiment.

NASCAR:
The close racing and constantly fighting and struggling to hang on. ( what i find very awesome )

WRC:
Excitiment from going so fast through such small areas. ( i would kill myself there for sure:razz: )

F1:
It's the best enginering and driver skill what makes it happen there. You can guess who is gonna win the race usually before it even starts. But this shows who is faster and more stable on the track. Less fighting but once a 1on1 battle starts it's really exciting to look at. These cars blow through corners.

A1GP:
All cars have the same enginering so all that it comes down to is driver skill. ( they can use there own setups and stuff but still ) It's always a suprise who is gonna win this just like NASCAR. Well currently germany is winning allot but that just proves germany is the best out there due to the same kinda enginering.

I think LFS should appeal to ALL people. If you like road courses fine. Just don't touch oval then. If you like oval courses and oval cars fine. Just don't touch road courses then. I don't think it will hurt road course racers to have a extra track+car. It only improves the game and attracts more racers. Soon they will also wanna try the rest of the game. Why shouldn't it be possible to combine both those things in LFS? I think it would be great to get such a addition to this game. I would definitly drive NASCAR in this game also. At least better then driving around a 'not so very good' good oval track with a F1 car... it isn't made for it.

My regards,

Tom

[lizardfolk]

I'm from europe, netherlands. I watch NASCAR, i watch WRC, i watch F1 and i watch A1GP. All of them i find very exciting forms of motorsports. Every branch of motorsports has there own excitiment.

NASCAR:
The close racing and constantly fighting and struggling to hang on. ( what i find very awesome )

WRC:
Excitiment from going so fast through such small areas. ( i would kill myself there for sure:razz: )

F1:
It's the best enginering and driver skill what makes it happen there. You can guess who is gonna win the race usually before it even starts. But this shows who is faster and more stable on the track. Less fighting but once a 1on1 battle starts it's really exciting to look at. These cars blow through corners.

A1GP:
All cars have the same enginering so all that it comes down to is driver skill. ( they can use there own setups and stuff but still ) It's always a suprise who is gonna win this just like NASCAR. Well currently germany is winning allot but that just proves germany is the best out there due to the same kinda enginering.

I think LFS should appeal to ALL people. If you like road courses fine. Just don't touch oval then. If you like oval courses and oval cars fine. Just don't touch road courses then. I don't think it will hurt road course racers to have a extra track+car. It only improves the game and attracts more racers. Soon they will also wanna try the rest of the game. Why shouldn't it be possible to combine both those things in LFS? I think it would be great to get such a addition to this game. I would definitly drive NASCAR in this game also. At least better then driving around a 'not so very good' good oval track with a F1 car... it isn't made for it.

My regards,

Tom

I agree, i believe the option should be atleast available

[wark]

http://www.bustedtees.com/bt/images/BT-boringnascar-gallery-6.jpg :razz: