which car for silver/gold server?

[goode400]

I've just got my silver license. Being a noob to this class, I would be interested to know why people have chosen the car they drive out of the three available.

Thanks.

[AndroidXP]

As far as I know, with a silver license you only have XRT or RB4.

[Dru]

FXO is available only to Gold Racers

So the Choice is from RB4 (4WD) and XRT (RWD)

IF you like RWD you go the XRT route i would imagine, if you don't (like me) you'll probably go in the RB4 direction.

[Bean0]

XRT, most points :)

I couldn't drive it at all really when I first became Silver licensed, but you get used to it.

Edit: There's the 'Silver and Up' server as well, where you can use the LX4 and LRF class cars. Not sure which are limited to Gold there though.

[Viper93]

If you like stability the RB4 is the way to go. You can get the RB to handle close to a RWD car but never exact. You will always have the issue of being slower down the straits though no matter what.

[AndroidXP]

And for gods sake, don't try to use the WR setups with the RB4. Sure, they're fast when driven correctly, but for normal drivers this just translates to "understeering pig".

[danowat]

Love the RB4, I can drive the XRT but I just don't find it as satisfying as the RB4, shame the XRT and FXO crucify the RB4 on any track with more than a 100m straight though............

[Viper93]

And for gods sake, don't try to use the WR setups with the RB4. Sure, they're fast when driven correctly, but for normal drivers this just translates to "understeering pig".


Odd for me they usually oversteer and smoke the tires =)

I put the cambers down to 1.5 or so and decrease the ARB's so the car will actually finish a race without having the tires falling off.

Love the RB4, I can drive the XRT but I just don't find it as satisfying as the RB4, shame the XRT and FXO crucify the RB4 on any track with more than a 100m straight though............


Yeah I hate that. THe speed difference actually gets less the longer the strait, its just that on the long straits the difference is there for longer =(

At aston Cadet in STCC the RB's were a good 5MPH slower down the frontstrait. Where at Blackwood it was down to 2-3 MPH difference for the front runners just before hitting the brakes off teh backstrait

[nihil]

XRT

When I'm up to speed with the FXOs then it means more points...

Actually, I have no idea why thats important to me, but I do find the XRT more satisfying to drive. The FXO just seems to be: get the line right, point and fire. Its way quicker in the corners because of this, but I get a real sense of satisfaction from just getting the lap right, consistently, in the XRT. Position and points then comes as a bonus on top of that.

BTW: I'm silver licenced and can select the FXO in the garage. I can also join... Racing it doesn't interest me so I haven't tried yet, but at what point in the process are you supposed to be prevented from using it without a gold licence?

[Viper93]

I hope soon the devs make the TBO class equal cars again, frustrating for both XRT's and RB's to try to keep up.

[Gentlefoot]

I'm with nihil. XRT is by far the most fun, you get most points and you look cool when you take some FXO scalps :)

[Jakg]

FXO, i need the practice for the STCC, as it is (imho) one of the best looking (and used to be) the best sounding car

[danowat]

FXO = desperation to win ;)

[Viper93]

FXO = desperation to win ;)

LOL :thumbsup::nod::thumb:

[Dru]

And for gods sake, don't try to use the WR setups with the RB4. Sure, they're fast when driven correctly, but for normal drivers this just translates to "understeering pig".


i did FE GREEN last night with a WR set and did what Viper suggested with respect to camber and arb's and found that the car was very forgiving :thumb:

[AndroidXP]

Granted, my experience came from a South City set, and it was horrible.

[Viper93]

Granted, my experience came from a South City set, and it was horrible.

The city sets for the RB4 on Inferno have massive understeer IIRC, while you get onto other sets there are massive oversteer issues. But at the end of the day it's all down to preference really and you as a driver feel comfortable and confident driving in, one driver that oversteers with one set can give it to another driver and that driver will have the car understeering worse than a snowplow in a foot of snow.

[Dru]

Granted, my experience came from a South City set, and it was horrible.

lol - i also went on SC first and used a WR set with reduced ARB and camber setting's - it worked like a charm (ok i was 5sec off WR) but still only did a few laps and there was little if any understeer to be found. :thumb:

[NetDemon01]

XRT is the most fun to use. Thanks to these STCC servers I finally learned to race with the XRT. It made me realize how boring the FXO really is. Driving the FXO makes winning a race easier, but I get much more joy seeing the fast XRT's whoop up on the FXOs :-P

[goode400]

Ok, I'll try the XRT then. Would some kind soul post a stable XRT set?

[thisnameistaken]

FXO, i need the practice for the STCC, as it is (imho) one of the best looking

It looks like a Vauxhall! Who gets excited looking at Vauxhalls? Nobody!

Ok, I'll try the XRT then. Would some kind soul post a stable XRT set?

Attached a couple of different ones that I remember using recently. The one labeled "SO4R" has a clutch pack diff and it's quite twitchy but sublime once you get the hang of it, the "SO5R" one has a locked diff and it understeers like a swine but it's easier to be fast.

[Jakg]

It looks like a Vauxhall! Who gets excited looking at Vauxhalls? Nobody!actually the VX220 was good, the Vauxhall Lotus Carlton was exciting simply because it bore a devil under the bonnet, and the Omega is pretty nice to look at.

Oh, and the Monaro (now VXR?) is pretty nice, too :D

I love the nose of the FXO, it's so agressive, and that + the old agressive roar it used to have were a great mix for me

[thisnameistaken]

actually the VX220 was good,

Looked a bit like a cut-price Lotus.

... Vauxhall Lotus Carlton ... the Omega ... the Monaro (now VXR?)

All look like the same (boring Vauxhall) car.

I love the nose of the FXO, it's so agressive, and that + the old agressive roar it used to have were a great mix for me

The engine used to sound nicer than most in LFS, I'll give you that. The front end doesn't look at all "aggressive" to me though - it's a bit bulbous with squinty headlights, looks like it's lost its glasses or something. I don't particularly like the look of the XRT either but at least it's fun to drive. :p

[Becky Rose]

I can confirm that the FXO is selectable to silver drivers, this will last for another 2 minutes...

It was a config file error when I rewrote the server software.

[zeugnimod]

I must admit, I changed from RB4 to FXO yesterday because half of the server was driving it and tbh, I dont regret it.

I just had several very good races and was even on the podium 3 times (yes, thats an achievement for me :tilt: ) and why not use the (now again existing) advantage of the Gold licence if you have it? :D

[three_jump]

Driving against the fxo can be a real pain, you can be 1 sec faster with the rb4 but you simply can't pass on a straight. The whole lap you are closing the gaps and eat dust on the straight again... kind of demotivating. And no, I refuse to drive the FXO :p

The fxo is just the uber car...

Dunno if that's possible, but what about force the fxo drivers to use more fuel, like 50% min? That way we could introduce some kind of simple weight system.?

[Becky Rose]

There is a balancing method in of sorts, FXO drivers have to do their own throttle blipping on downshift and throttle cutting (unless they use manual clutch) - but it isn't enough to redress all of their advantage.

Nothing else is possible to detect at the moment.

[MrSkill]

Give the FXO a passenger or better 4 passengers. :D

[Tukko]

Nothing else is possible to detect at the moment.

Ban FXO? :shy:

[danowat]

The much needed ballast option would help

[nihil]

I think its enough that FXO drivers don't receive as many points. You get a choice: win a few races or learn to drive (and then win a few races...) :)

[Linsen]

Just to chime in here:

I finally found time to get back to the STCC-servers, as I don't have to practice for OLFS atm, and I must say, the XRT is awesome fun. Just had a couple of races at SO classic reverse and the set I used was really nice, I guess, very controllable and fast (at least for me) -- so, XRT all the way! (never thought I would say that :tilt:)

(the only problem now is, that there are still tons of people on the STCC server who simply don't know how to join a race after a crash or don't care -- really annoying)

[SamH]

(the only problem now is, that there are still tons of people on the STCC server who simply don't know how to join a race after a crash or don't care -- really annoying)
We do want to know about these, so please don't hesitate to report. http://licence.ukct.net/report.asp

Racing on the Silver & Gold server is expected to be of a much higher standard than the Copper & Bronze servers. You guys worked hard for your Silver, Gold, Platinum and Titanium licences, and it should feel good when you've got to the next level.

Things like rejoining into traffic are definitely not what you should see on Silver and upwards, and it's specifically our intention to maintain standards for you guys to have good racing. We are really unlikely to ban people from the STCC altogether (except wreckers.. they can get lost), but we will make a determined effort to make sure that the people who race to a lesser standard race only on lesser servers (New & Bronze).

I reckon that by and large the racing on Silver and upwards is a lot better than it is on New & Bronze. If you find that it's not, we do need to know. Please send us reports.

[Linsen]

Yeah, I know, I should have saved the replays and reported them, but I could keep on racing and by the time the race was finished, I had almost forgotten about it and failed to save the replay. Also, I'm in general a little hesitant to denunciate people :shrug:. I know that it's for the greater good, though and I'll try to remember it next time. And I still had a lot of fun, of course :tilt:.

[Becky Rose]

Glad you enjoyed it, but remember with STCC we can do more than just banning people - we can make notes. It's the repeat offenders we want to be rid of :)

[Dru]

Glad you enjoyed it, but remember with STCC we can do more than just banning people - we can make notes. It's the repeat offenders we want to be rid of :)



a little off topic (but not too much i hope Becky) :thumb:

is there anyway that people who have been reported that you have made notes on can be displayed in either a script on the screen that comes up with your status bar or on the license page on the web site, so people who have been doing wrong actually know about it?

for instance you have the three strikes rules, if you have 3 incidents that the STCC review and find to be valid you then get removed from that level for 'retraining purposes'

i think the problem is, as i see it many people after a crash or rejoin do it 'get away with it' and then don't see it as being a problem.. if however you could somehow show users on screen that they have 1/3 warnings or 2/3 etc and for the reason 'dangerous behaviour track rejoining etc etc) then maybe the people doing wrong can actually learn from it?

people generally stop doing things if they are told about it so they can learn from it, if people are not told about what they are doing wrong, then they'll never learn and will continue to do it as they do not know/beleive that they are doing anything wrong

hope the above all makes sense, it's early and i haven't had my wake up coffee just yet :schwitz:


just a thought,


Dru

[Gentlefoot]

Driving against the fxo can be a real pain, you can be 1 sec faster with the rb4 but you simply can't pass on a straight. The whole lap you are closing the gaps and eat dust on the straight again... kind of demotivating. And no, I refuse to drive the FXO :p



So true. It's hard to pass the FXO in the XRT becuase a passing move of any quality usually starts from the exit of the previous corner when you start to get a run on your opponent. To get a run on an FXO in an XRT you need to carry a lot more corner speed or get on the gas much earlier, preferably both. :)

[Gentlefoot]

Glad you enjoyed it, but remember with STCC we can do more than just banning people - we can make notes. It's the repeat offenders we want to be rid of :)

Thats good to know because up until now I would never report anyone for anything other than deliberate wrecking but seeing as you keep notes on people I will start reporting those who tap pass, don't give room etc. OK if its accidental but drivers on silver and gold servers should have the skills to follow close without more than the slightest contact. Me and my R4R mates manage it every night so it can't be that hard.

[Becky Rose]

I wrestled long and hard over whether to put licence notes on the drivers licence lookup page, but what swung it was that it is possible to lookup other peoples licence notes, and I consider the notes to be personal information and therefor covered by the Data Protection Act.

What I would like to do is add a button that requests the licence notes to be emailed to your LFS World desktop messaging system, but atm I have not had time to research how to do that, so currently the only way to get your licence notes is to message me privately for them.

I will be introducing new systems though, in the future silver and higher servers will have an accident per lap factor as part of the access requirements, and some of the special servers I will be introducing will require reading of the web pages rules before they allow you to join the race although I wont be introducing that feature on the pure race servers.

[Gentlefoot]

I wrestled long and hard over whether to put licence notes on the drivers licence lookup page, but what swung it was that it is possible to lookup other peoples licence notes, and I consider the notes to be personal information and therefor covered by the Data Protection Act.

What I would like to do is add a button that requests the licence notes to be emailed to your LFS World desktop messaging system, but atm I have not had time to research how to do that, so currently the only way to get your licence notes is to message me privately for them.

I will be introducing new systems though, in the future silver and higher servers will have an accident per lap factor as part of the access requirements, and some of the special servers I will be introducing will require reading of the web pages rules before they allow you to join the race although I wont be introducing that feature on the pure race servers.


Where do I send a request for my licence notes Becky? You're LFS PM doesn't seem to work.

[Becky Rose]

STCC forums would be preffered, I contact me via my email address which is on the STCC contacts page as an anti-spam-harvest link :)

[Dru]

I wrestled long and hard over whether to put licence notes on the drivers licence lookup page, but what swung it was that it is possible to lookup other peoples licence notes, and I consider the notes to be personal information and therefor covered by the Data Protection Act.
.

Surely these are racing facts rather than 'personal information'? but ok if you have already investigated and come up with something different/better thats cool :thumb:

Good job for thinking at least one or two steps ahead of everyone else :D

[Becky Rose]

Surely these are racing facts rather than 'personal information'
It depends on if the admin says,
'driver contacted multiple cars heavily without depressing brakes into first turn.'
or
'driver is a total foxtrotting remeo, confronted said whiskey tango about his antics and told him what a foxtrotting papa of a bravo whiskey he was'.

:D

[Gentlefoot]

Its information about a person, not about a race so yes, it must be Personal Information and therefore falls under the remit of the DPA here in the UK.

Having said that, its not bank details or anything like that so the rules are fairly relaxed.

[Dru]

from wikipedia.....

The Data Protection Act (DPA) is a United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) Act of Parliament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_Parliament) that provides a legal basis and allowing for the privacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy) and protection of data (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_protection) of individuals in the UK.

great - that means you can do it for everyone who isn't from the UK :D :really:

[goode400]

Attached a couple of different ones that I remember using recently. The one labeled "SO4R" has a clutch pack diff and it's quite twitchy but sublime once you get the hang of it, the "SO5R" one has a locked diff and it understeers like a swine but it's easier to be fast.

Thanks for those....although from your discription, neither sound like particularly good 'beginners' sets. But perhaps it's better to start off with a good but tricky set and get used to it than an easy set which will have to be dumped later on in favour of a competetive one.

[Shotglass]

I wrestled long and hard over whether to put licence notes on the drivers licence lookup page, but what swung it was that it is possible to lookup other peoples licence notes, and I consider the notes to be personal information and therefor covered by the Data Protection Act.

how about a password server command that generates a password to look up some more information in your own licence info ?

[thisnameistaken]

Thanks for those....although from your discription, neither sound like particularly good 'beginners' sets. But perhaps it's better to start off with a good but tricky set and get used to it than an easy set which will have to be dumped later on in favour of a competetive one.

Well, you'd be better off getting used to the locked diff one out of the two, because most sets you'll find will use a locked diff. :( You could probably make it understeer less if you tried, I just didn't bother because there was only one guy consistently beating me that night and he was going to beat me even if I glued rockets to the back of my car.

[Linsen]

What I would like to do is add a button that requests the licence notes to be emailed to your LFS World desktop messaging system, but atm I have not had time to research how to do that, so currently the only way to get your licence notes is to message me privately for them.
Being able to request ones own license notes is all good, I guess, but I doubt it will achieve what Dru was pointing out. Thing is, if I -- or any other responsible racer (yes, I am, I swear :D) -- do something stupid, I know it the instance I do it. I might request my license notes in order to find out if I was reported, but I'll try to not let that happen again regardless of any notes. The not so responsible racer, however, will probably not request his license notes if he did something stupid (cause else, he'd be a responsible racer) and therefore will never know that he screwed up, unless he's presented his notes without requesting them.

Uh, long and winding explanation of a rather simple thought, it seems.

Well, anyway, I'll wait what you have in the pipeline, Becky.

[goode400]

There is a balancing method in of sorts, FXO drivers have to do their own throttle blipping on downshift and throttle cutting (unless they use manual clutch) - but it isn't enough to redress all of their advantage.

Nothing else is possible to detect at the moment.

Becky > Why do you allow dips and blips at all in any car? surely total realism is the goal.

[Becky Rose]

Becky > Why do you allow dips and blips at all in any car? surely total realism is the goal.
They would be if STCC3 servers every gained popularity, but they never did because of the fixed track which was necessary for our events. Anyway the new server lineup might give the opportunity for some more totally no-aids servers :)

The not so responsible racer, however, will probably not request his license notes
One of the many new features i'm coding at the moment will allow us to get their attention by a method other than the current short term ban method *evil grin*.

[SamH]

One of the many new features i'm coding at the moment will allow us to get their attention by a method other than the current short term ban method *evil grin*.
/me gives out an Igor-ish *guffaw* :D

[N I K I]

Why are points lowed? I used to get 250 points for win and records whit 10 more racers. Now I get like 110. The record is machine, I left FXOs for 5-10 secounds behind, and still there is 110 points. What happen? I'm driving whit XRT

[goode400]

It looks like a Vauxhall! Who gets excited looking at Vauxhalls? Nobody!



Attached a couple of different ones that I remember using recently. The one labeled "SO4R" has a clutch pack diff and it's quite twitchy but sublime once you get the hang of it, the "SO5R" one has a locked diff and it understeers like a swine but it's easier to be fast.

Thanks very much for that. I've been using the SO4R one for a while now. I use it on all tracks as I'm not sure how to mod it for different tracks so I'd probably spend a lot of time and end up messing it up. Are you still as happy with this set or have you made changes that make it better?

[Mykl]

I like the RB4. I chose it because my actual car is AWD, so I'm instantly comfortable with the car's inherent tendencies.

I like the at-the-limit understeer, and I like the "instantly stable" effect positive throttle input has on the car.

The only issue with the car is, like real world AWD cars, it has a tendency to eat up the front tires in a hurry if you're not careful. After 20 laps on a City sprint course they'll be bright red. But if you set up the car to oversteer while the tires are cool, close to neutral with a hint of oversteer when they're at optimum temp, then the understeer when the tires are overheated won't slow you down too much and may even allow you to be more abusive with the throttle later in the race.

[Viper93]

I like the RB4. I chose it because my actual car is AWD, so I'm instantly comfortable with the car's inherent tendencies.

I like the at-the-limit understeer, and I like the "instantly stable" effect positive throttle input has on the car.

The only issue with the car is, like real world AWD cars, it has a tendency to eat up the front tires in a hurry if you're not careful. After 20 laps on a City sprint course they'll be bright red. But if you set up the car to oversteer while the tires are cool, close to neutral with a hint of oversteer when they're at optimum temp, then the understeer when the tires are overheated won't slow you down too much and may even allow you to be more abusive with the throttle later in the race.

Or if your really good with setups you can get the rears to overheat before the fronts =) Now thats a challenge during a race =) ( I have only managed it once in an STCC event) Thank you Hannu =)

[Mykl]

Or if your really good with setups you can get the rears to overheat before the fronts =) Now thats a challenge during a race =) ( I have only managed it once in an STCC event) Thank you Hannu =)

I can definitely see how it's possible, especially if you're not in the habit of asking too much of the front tires pre-apex. The front and rear tires on my car wear at very close to the same rate because I'm in the habit of getting most of my braking done in a straight line, turning more sharply than a "momentum car", apexing late, and being on the throttle harder and longer to take advantage of the extra grip AWD provides.

The RB4 seems to be a fairly accurate representation of what a real world AWD car with a non active center diff is capable of.

[thisnameistaken]

Thanks very much for that. I've been using the SO4R one for a while now. I use it on all tracks as I'm not sure how to mod it for different tracks so I'd probably spend a lot of time and end up messing it up. Are you still as happy with this set or have you made changes that make it better?

It's too understeery with the default preload value in W10/17, so yeah I've been messing with it a bit since the new test patches, but I haven't come up with anything I really like yet. (Pssst! I don't really know what I'm doing!).

Just had a quick look, and I've got the power locking at 50%, coast at 60%, preload at 110Nm. I've also upped the rear ARB to 50, Front is at 55. Not sure what they used to be at but I know I messed with them (rightly or wrongly!)

[csurdongulos]

I found in the road cars since we have preload, a quite low coast setting should work better, give 35-40 a try. :)

[goode400]

It's too understeery with the default preload value in W10/17, so yeah I've been messing with it a bit since the new test patches, but I haven't come up with anything I really like yet. (Pssst! I don't really know what I'm doing!).

Just had a quick look, and I've got the power locking at 50%, coast at 60%, preload at 110Nm. I've also upped the rear ARB to 50, Front is at 55. Not sure what they used to be at but I know I messed with them (rightly or wrongly!)

Just had a 20 lap race with this set (not modified)and burst the front left tyre on final lap! (still got 3rd though!)