auto gear ban? [Archive] - Live for Speed

tristancliffe

18th March 2007, 12:19

The good reason is because that is what Becky wants. Feel free to develop your own server management software and allow Auto-Gears. But as long as you use someone elses system then you have to abide by their rules.

If you don't want to use the STCC servers, or you do want to drive badly (auto-gears) then go somewhere else - there are plenty of servers around!

Becky Rose

18th March 2007, 13:21

Thats BS imo, is there a good reason for using a system like this, or is it just 'like it or lump it'?
There are several good reasons why auto gears is banned.

Firstly on it's inception it reduced wrecker activity by over 30% for this reason alone auto gears is not welcome on our servers.

STCC servers are aimed at serious sim-racers, not at gamers, and as such progressively remove gaming based driving aids as you gain ranks.

As for like it or lump it. I've changed driver aids before based on player request, but auto gears is one that I see no reason to change.

It's not BS. BS is an abbreviation for a swearword so you can foxtrot yourself, frankly.

CSU1

18th March 2007, 13:36

There are several good reasons why auto gears is banned.

Firstly on it's inception it reduced wrecker activity by over 30% for this reason alone auto gears is not welcome on our servers.

STCC servers are aimed at serious sim-racers, not at gamers, and as such progressively remove gaming based driving aids as you gain ranks.

As for like it or lump it. I've changed driver aids before based on player request, but auto gears is one that I see no reason to change.

It's not BS. BS is an abbreviation for a swearword so you can foxtrot yourself, frankly.

Yeah ok, I just feel sorry for people like Zachary Zoomy getting a ban for trying to learn. I KNOW, go off-line or somewhere else and learn is the usual advice you could say to drivers like Zachary Zoomy, but it's very hard to find good competative driving on a server as good as the one's you manage Becky. They run some of my fav combo's, I dont adhire to the larger cars in LFS so the combos there suit me fine and I race on both STCC 1a & STCC 1b every day....well allmost every day, I cant get my liscense though because I cant really drive too good:shy:

You have my upmost appology's Becky, I am sorry for using stupid foul language there:( I just feel sorry for Zachary Zoomy is all.

zeugnimod

18th March 2007, 13:43

Yeah ok, I just feel sorry for people like Zachary Zoomy getting a ban for trying to learn.

IMO, you shouldnt "learn" to drive with auto-gears. You should use manual gearing right from the beginning or you will have to change your driving again later, when you realized that you have to use manual gearing to be competitive.

I made that mistake, too. :tilt:

SamH

18th March 2007, 13:51

You have my upmost appology's Becky, I am sorry for using stupid foul language there:( I just feel sorry for Zachary Zoomy is all.
I guess the first lesson Zachary learned, and it will carry across ALL public servers, and not just the STCC.. don't even THINK about EATING while driving wheel-to-wheel with other people. Driving S2 is a different level of responsibility, and risking other drivers' races by eating while driving on LFS will win you no friends.

Viper93

18th March 2007, 14:56

I guess the first lesson Zachary learned, and it will carry across ALL public servers, and not just the STCC.. don't even THINK about EATING while driving wheel-to-wheel with other people. Driving S2 is a different level of responsibility, and risking other drivers' races by eating while driving on LFS will win you no friends.

Hehe well that is a way to put it =) Right though shouldn't really be eating and driving, just sit out a race or two.

Greboth

18th March 2007, 15:05

I didn't know it banned for auto gears although i got kicked out of race for using the throttle blip (i think) but never use auto gears so fine by me, cant beat full on h shifting, heel and toeing even if i am slower for it.
Not the end of the work being banned for 24 hours though, have a night off from racing lfs or race another server for one evening :)

Viper93

18th March 2007, 15:12

Hehe that was the idea behind the 24 hour ban I think =)

STCC from what I am gathering from it is trying to produce something thats as close to real life racing as you can get within LFS. The best way to do this atm is to prevent people from using driver aids.

BTW you don't have to heal-toe, just give a good blip of the throttle on downshift and the gear should slide in. Could do this for upshift aswell but it will take you some time for the gearing to mesh. This is how I drove semi in the states. Once I got rolling in 1st I didn't touch the clutch again until I was almost stopped at the stop sign or light =) talk about a workout, espcially when I romped through low range without skipping a shift =)

Crashgate3

18th March 2007, 18:24

Manual gears aren't that hard anyway - LFS is the first game I've ever played where I've made myself use them, and it only too an hour or two to pick it up.

That said I've not tried the 6 and 7 geared monsters competitively yet, so time will tell..:D

Jakg

18th March 2007, 19:03

Lemme re-iterate, it DOESNT ban you for auto-gears, it tells you not to use them, however if you try to get round it by enabling them mid-race then it will

Greboth

18th March 2007, 19:42

BTW you don't have to heal-toe, just give a good blip of the throttle on downshift and the gear should slide in.

I know you dont have to heel and toe, dont even have to use a h shifter but it makes it alot more . . . . . . :scratchch fun, exciting, intense.

Indiana Jim

18th March 2007, 19:55

The immaturity of some STCC supporters is overwhelming!

like it or lump it...go somewhere else...I don't think we have to be rude to others who ask a simple question. I support STCC and I try my best not to be rude. I think some of you could try the same. :nod:

When we reply with a rude answer to someone who has no clue about this game we only show that our maturity is at the level of an 8 year old and our Intelligence Quotient (IQ for short) is lower than my bowling score (which isn't very high). :ouch:

So, be nice to one another and kind to newbies, explaining them what you have already explained 1000 times, in a welcoming way. Don't give room for anyone to call you a trouble maker, but be eager to help in resolving issues, that you may receive an award for promoting the spirit of STCC.

This is the best advise I can give you for now.

Have a great day folks.

Jim

zeugnimod

18th March 2007, 20:22

You completely took these 2 quotes of their context.

If you read the full posts they arent rude and there is other information in them. :shrug:

Bean0

18th March 2007, 22:04

The immaturity of some STCC supporters is overwhelming!

I don't think we have to be rude to others who ask a simple question. I support STCC and I try my best not to be rude. I think some of you could try the same. :nod:

When we reply with a rude answer to someone who has no clue about this game we only show that our maturity is at the level of an 8 year old and our Intelligence Quotient (IQ for short) is lower than my bowling score (which isn't very high). :ouch:

So, be nice to one another and kind to newbies, explaining them what you have already explained 1000 times, in a welcoming way. Don't give room for anyone to call you a trouble maker, but be eager to help in resolving issues, that you may receive an award for promoting the spirit of STCC.

This is the best advise I can give you for now.

Have a great day folks.

Jim

Well I am sorry.

As you can see from the time of my post, it was 4am and I was watching the GP.

I couldn't be hassled with searching here for Becky previous explanations of why auto gears are not allowed, and just answered the questions asked.

I'll let people wait a few hours for a proper reply next time :x

SamH

18th March 2007, 22:21

it was 4am and I was watching the GP.
Me too! Worth staying up for! But we digress... :tilt:

JamesK

18th March 2007, 22:27

The immaturity of some STCC supporters is overwhelming!Its just tough love, man ;)

Becky Rose

19th March 2007, 07:19

The immaturity of some STCC supporters is overwhelming!
It is known to us that watching STCC movies instantly degrades the viewers frontal lobe and make them less empathic, more agressive, and reverts them to an earlier mental state. We have been covering this up for a while now, actually.

I think perhaps you mean "the immaturity of some people on internet forums is overwhelming".

Viper93

19th March 2007, 14:38

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It is known to us that watching STCC movies instantly degrades the viewers frontal lobe and make them less empathic, more agressive, and reverts them to an earlier mental state. We have been covering this up for a while now, actually.

I think perhaps you mean "the immaturity of some people on internet forums is overwhelming".

I think you should broaden that even more by saying in general there are many immature people out in the world, I would say today but I think its more along the lines of always has been. :nod::thumbsup:

As a whole it's good but there are always a few who like to spoil it for everyone in one shape or form.

Zachary Zoomy

19th March 2007, 23:10

i see. i don't usally drive with autogears. I had a minor controller failer and the clutch didn't work so instead of changeing the control file I tried auto gears for until the end of hte race.

Swiss_Tony

19th March 2007, 23:33

But you said initially that you changed to auto gears because you were eating ? So, which one is it :shrug:

mrodgers

20th March 2007, 02:03

The actual truth is...

Zachary Zoomy: Does anyone know if it bans you for autogears here? Or is it the higher servers?
NightHawk: I'm not sure, thought just higher servers, but don't know.
Zachary Zoomy: Well, lets find out.
Zachary Zoomy disconnected, never to return again that evening.

Don't quote me on the exact text....

:D

Zachary Zoomy

20th March 2007, 20:03

ok enough said. please close the thread. and yes i will not be eating and driving on any server ever again.

Dennisjr13

21st March 2007, 01:19

Heh, guess i will be taking a 24h break too :x. Forgot it wasn't allowed and started in manual on an autox track, then switched to auto as I usually use automatic on autocross courses as I can never find the right gear. I remember it wasn't allowed when I was kicked from the server :D

th84

21st March 2007, 02:14

ok enough said. please close the thread. and yes i will not be eating and driving on any server ever again.

Good idea.:thumb:

Gentlefoot

21st March 2007, 10:34

BTW you don't have to heal-toe, just give a good blip of the throttle on downshift and the gear should slide in. Could do this for upshift aswell but it will take you some time for the gearing to mesh.

How do you give a good blip on downshift without heel-toeing if you want to brake at the same time?

Why would you blip on upshift? You need the revs to drop to the next gear not rise.

Viper93

21st March 2007, 14:37

How do you give a good blip on downshift without heel-toeing if you want to brake at the same time?

Why would you blip on upshift? You need the revs to drop to the next gear not rise.

Haha yeah that was me misstyping again...

Simply not use the clutch and give a nice big blip on downshift. I don't know about racecar transmisions but semi transmissions handle this just find. I use the clutch on upshift and just blip with my right foot as I brake with my left, same as I did driving semi.

mikey_G

21st March 2007, 14:40

How do you give a good blip on downshift without heel-toeing if you want to brake at the same time?

I especially ripped this vid for people who don't heel and toe but still wanna blip the throttle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azpqTZ6WeJk

edit: Even Montoya does it in nascar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1VFgDisBtc

Viper93

21st March 2007, 14:44

I especially ripped this vid for people who don't heel and toe but still wanna blip the throttle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azpqTZ6WeJk

:thumb::nod: Glad to see pro drivers doing the same thing, I don't hear of many drivers not using the clutch, it can go horribly wrong if your not careful and tear the whole inside out of the transmission.

Gentlefoot

21st March 2007, 14:51

most cars don't have semi automatic gearboxes though. The cars used in STCC definately wouldn't have auto clutch.

mikey_G

21st March 2007, 14:51

:thumb::nod: Glad to see pro drivers doing the same thing, I don't hear of many drivers not using the clutch, it can go horribly wrong if your not careful and tear the whole inside out of the transmission.

Yeah, in v8 supercars they use a pretty strong transmission. By the way, with the endurance races in v8 supercars pretty much no one does clutchless shifting to make sure the transmission lasts for quite some hours.
Even Greg Murphy (the person in the video) heel and toes it then.

You can check my youtube username for more v8 supercars videos and footwork.
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=somestupidusername84

Viper93

21st March 2007, 15:06

most cars don't have semi automatic gearboxes though. The cars used in STCC definately wouldn't have auto clutch.

Well you don't NEED a semi-auto to do it, depends on how bullitprouf the transmission is that will allow the mating of the gears to happen under a little load.

Getting them out of gear is another matter, no chance of really getting it out of gear with full throttle, just let off quickly to release the pressure on the gears (IE coast, no engine braking) and pop it out of gear. Put gentle pressure on the next gear your going into until it slides in at the right RPM, ( key here is GENTLE, too much you will bend and break stuff, too little though and you will miss the gear)

It will cause more wear on the transmission than normal like shifter forks and you run the risk of chipping a gear but it can be done if your careful. Just have to have a transmission that doesnt use syncro's. I call them dog gear transmissions but I am from the backwoods in Wisconsin and I don't know the technical term =)

boyracer1981

21st March 2007, 15:40

i am disabled and cannot race without an auto box
i guess im screwed :shrug:

Becky Rose

21st March 2007, 15:43

No you are not screwed. We have a disability access scheme :D. eMail me from the link in the bottom right please: http://www.simtouringcarcup.com/contact.php

Gentlefoot

21st March 2007, 15:45

Well you don't NEED a semi-auto to do it, depends on how bullitprouf the transmission is that will allow the mating of the gears to happen under a little load.

Sure, you can change gear without a clutch even if the gearbox isn't sequential but there is absolutely no benefit to it when racing. The only time you might want to do this is if the clutch fails in your road car.

Viper93

21st March 2007, 16:23

Sure, you can change gear without a clutch even if the gearbox isn't sequential but there is absolutely no benefit to it when racing. The only time you might want to do this is if the clutch fails in your road car.

No probably isnt any real benefit, but for those that don't care for Heel-toe it works good =)

Gentlefoot

21st March 2007, 16:27

No probably isnt any real benefit, but for those that don't care for Heel-toe it works good =)

Actually yeah - good point lol. For those who can't heel toe there is a benefit to it you're right.

Silly me :)

I tell you what though. I wouldn't do it in my track prepared mkII Golf. Gearbox is likely to let go at any moment anyway without me banging it through the syncros everytime I change gear :)

Viper93

21st March 2007, 16:37

Actually yeah - good point lol. For those who can't heel toe there is a benefit to it you're right.

Silly me :)

I tell you what though. I wouldn't do it in my track prepared mkII Golf. Gearbox is likely to let go at any moment anyway without me banging it through the syncros everytime I change gear :)

Well if you want to put it that way sure =) Honestly that is the case though, I always find that in brake zones that are less than full brake or almost full brake I always find a way to tap the brake as I try to blip upsetting the car. I will have to learn it though for when my car gets here for when I do track-days.

Hehe yeah this method doesn't work with syncro's. There needs to be free movement and with Sycro's the gears are speeding up and slowing down at rates different than just the RPM(front 1/2 of transmission) and MPH (back 1/2 of transmission) giving you 2 more variables to work with, well 3 if you add in a quasi LSD like the one in my car that never really locks =)

Zachary Zoomy

22nd March 2007, 23:32

good points but this thread has gone far enough. mods: please close the thread!

zak_mull

30th March 2007, 18:45

Zachary, rules are rules, they are there to be obeyed, if youdont like rules that are set on servers and want to question on them then why bother going to them. It makes it more of a simulation and therefore more fun/interesting. It also makes it fair for everyone, and as becky said, 30% less chance of crashing, i agree, i used to use auto-shift but now i use manual and find it fun and get more out of the car and more stability out of it too

Fetzo

9th April 2007, 09:05

tbh i dont like these rules either, especially the forced throttle cut on 3. but there is no point to have an argument, because it is just not wanted by the admins :).

p.s. :
same goes for the blackwood layout. it doesn't punish the drive, who is cutting the chicane, it produces lots of flying tyres at the following drivers. yesterday, when i was starting from the back i had to evade (mostly unsuccessful) EVERY lap.

FOGlegsy

9th April 2007, 10:32

same as the major cutting that goes on around the fern bay club circuit,

The tyres are always spread across the track from the final chicane, people cutting left right and centre, ( we need some static objects)

Swiss_Tony

9th April 2007, 11:46

Oil drums filled with cement should do the job :)

mrodgers

9th April 2007, 11:55

( we need some static objects)
Not static, but the tires/barriers should be tethered in some way so that they do not fly out onto the track. I'm sure this is what you mean though.

Becky Rose

9th April 2007, 12:00

Tethered trackside tyres is a ruddy fantastic idea.

You know most tyre stacks that i've hit (and I know a few by first name) have had a restraining system of some form in them, but LFS deals with them as an individual tyre or stack of tyres.

I think you should put that into improvement suggestions right away :)

Fetzo

9th April 2007, 20:04

why not remove them, till the devs come up with a better idea? shortcutting in the blackwood chicane with a tbo isn't faster than staying on the track. it's slower and more dangerous. the original layout from the devs is definately better for a clean race. in your layout, the tyres are way too near at the track.

aahhh, i tried at again. i know, no discussion wanted :x.

Scorpio

16th April 2007, 15:11

Jakg

16th April 2007, 15:18

you enabled it mid race, which is what people often do after being told they cant join with auto gears (they join with manual and then change to auto-gears mid race)

But yes, you are a 747 :P

SamH

16th April 2007, 15:25

:(
i was banned also...
what a stupid rule ... cant beleave
i was drinking ... turned auto gear on an then ... "CHEAT Enablet" and was kicked :( for 24 hours OMG ...
if this is a cheat then am a Boeieng 747 :shrug:
The STCC's rules on driver aids are quite clear, and these days it's VERY difficult to get banned for 24hrs for trying to beat the system.

It seems that the STCC system, and your idea of what competitive and responsible racing is, are clearly totally incompatible.

Also, I suggest for the sake of other drivers around you, don't take a drink while you're driving. Wait til the end of the race. Not just on the STCC, but on any public server.

Iron

16th April 2007, 16:53

The STCC's rules on driver aids are quite clear

Um, where can i find these rules (i mean the driver aids)? I checked the rules section on simtouringcarcup.com, licence.ukct.net/default.asp, and on the STCC forums, but i didn't find anything about driver aids. Can you point me in the right direction please?

SamH

16th April 2007, 19:27

You're right, it seems. It's not written in the rules. At least, nowhere I can find. So, I owe [Scorpio] an apology. I'm genuinely sorry. :shy:

It's definitely in the rules, inasmuch as a warning is coded into the software, as you pass each split, telling you that auto gears are not permitted. So it's not something that many people can claim to be unaware of. If you finish the race, having ignored the warnings, then the software considers that you've determined to break the rules deliberately and will ban you for 24 hours.

What may have happened, in your [Scorpio's] case, is that you turned on auto gears in the very last sector of the race. The software has mistakenly assumed that you've received at least one warning during the race, and chosen to ignore it. I'll highlight the deficiencies in the system, and the absence of the driver aid restriction information, to Becky for her to address.

[edit] It's Scorpio I owe the apology to :p

Becky Rose

16th April 2007, 19:44

There are no deficiencies in the way the system is designed. I'm not saying it hasn't got a bug, although it has worked reliably for some time.

It does not warn you if you cross a split with illegal aids, well it does, but more importantly what it actually does is spectates you.

The only exception is if you turn the aid on between the last split sector and the finish line. Spectating you here, after registering a result, would have no effect on a race where you'd cheated. So it bans you for a day and announces what you did for others to see. This is it's design.

Driving aids are restricted on our servers, this is public knowledge although not specifically mentioned on the web site. There's are dozens of features not mentioned on the web site. This isn't an accident, there's simply too much to document that it would bore people to tears to read it and over complicate the site by fixing regulations on things that dont need regulations. More importantly, it would make change difficult when change (as the recent patch highlights) is a constant part of the STCC.

All of the features are detailed to you when it becomes important to you as a competitor. Take the admin messaging system as an example: You dont get it telling you that there is no message to you from an admin, it just messages you when there is something in your inbox.

Scorpio

16th April 2007, 19:47

i dont wanna brake the rule
i turned on auto gear couse one of my two arms was busy ... :)
and it doesnt make me faster
it makes me even slower ... so ... its not a cheat ...
let me be slower couse i want so ...
but no ... the system know better and it says that its cheat and it kicked from the server
i was so ANGRY ... for not letting me join again ... HOST REFUSED CONNECTION ... ??? somebody to refuse me ???????????
ARGHHHHHHHHH
where is my bazuka ? ...

i know ... that whatever im gonna say, you system defenders gonna say that auto gear is not allowed! and that it ...
i just wanna say from point of view of a simple user ...
that wasnt a cheat at all ...
better make the system more realistic ... for example 10 minutes ... couse i understant this stupid lesson which i even didnt know ... so im not gonna turn on again the auto gear ...

ps sorry for my english :)

Jakg

16th April 2007, 19:48

it seems that wreckers seem to use auto-gears exclusively, and this measure has helped stop them getting in!

The host refused connection is an automated 24 hour ban

Becky Rose

16th April 2007, 19:50

Incidents of wrecking went down by 70% overnight when we banned auto gears.

We know, from experience, that wreckers tend to stay wreckers and that on the whole people who dont care dont suddently start caring.

We also know that the vast majority of the 'casual' wreckers havn't bothered to learn how to use a gearbox.

SamH

16th April 2007, 19:55

While it is definitely widely known, I do think it should also be written. Auto gears is an important matter, on the STCC.

I've added the following to the Licence page:-
DRIVER AIDS
Important: Automatic Gears ARE NOT PERMITTED anywhere on the STCC system. Throttle Blip on Downshift and Throttle Cut on UpShift are also restricted on certain cars. If you receive a warning, or are prevented from entering a race because of a particular restriction on that car, ignoring the warning or circumventing the system may result in a temporary ban from the STCC system.

Becky Rose

16th April 2007, 19:57

Throttle and Braking help are also restricted 'at higher levels'.

SamH

16th April 2007, 20:07

Added. The page now says:-
DRIVER AIDS
Important: Automatic Gears ARE NOT PERMITTED anywhere on the STCC system. Throttle Blip on Downshift and Throttle Cut on UpShift are restricted on certain cars, and Throttle and Braking Help are also restricted for higher licences. If you receive a warning, or are prevented from entering a race because of a particular restriction on that car, ignoring the warning or circumventing the system may result in a temporary ban from the STCC system.

Iron

17th April 2007, 08:00

Ah, so it warns you when you try to join with an aid not allowed. I thought it would ban you right away or something, so I didn't try to join before figuring this out completely. :D That's why I asked this, but now I realize I don't need this. Though I need to get a little offline practice with TBO cars anyway, so I can't yet enjoy my silver license.

Mykl

20th April 2007, 22:24

At what level and on what cars is the throttle blip illegal?

I don't think it's fair to call auto-gears a "cheat" since I can go out and buy a car with an automatic gearbox and take it to the track if I wanted to. Also, the latest performance cars to hit the market with DSG/SMG/F1A style paddle shifters are equipped with automatic throttle blip functions, so I don't see how it's realistic to restrict this game feature. It's not even limited to expensive sports cars anymore, you can get an inexpensive Volkswagen GTi with this style gearbox.

I can shut up and color just like anybody else if this really is a "we run the show, deal with it or go elsewhere" type of decision. You do the work, you call the shots, and that's the bottom line. But please don't try to tell me or anybody else that this is all in the name of realism, because it's not realistic.

Becky Rose

20th April 2007, 23:15

Type $aids to find out what driver aids are allowed on which server with which car.

We welcome American racers but you guys do like your automatics! Anyway autogears is banned for a reason and it's nothing to do with realism or European motoring. It's banned because doing it reduced incidents of wrecking by 70% overnight: Most habitual wreckers use automatic gearbox.

As for throttle blipping, we have been using it as a balancing method on STCC2 to slow up the FXO in relation to the slower RB4/XRT's, and we use it in the league because those guys are meant to be the best and should do it themselves.

So are we really as nazi as your post above implies?

Mykl

20th April 2007, 23:32

No, sounds like good reasons... you'll have to forgive me. Sometimes with so many people speaking on your behalf it's really easy get the wrong impression. I've read other conversations on the subject and it seems as if some people are convinced that there are real world reasons for these decisions, that they're not purely gameplay balance decisions (as they are).

I'm sorry if my post was a bit edgy. I'm at work at the moment so I'm in "matter of fact" mode. :D

MorpheusZero

1st May 2007, 09:59

We welcome American racers but you guys do like your automatics!

Wow.

Low blow. Haha.

While this is true of America in general I'd say most of us who are enough of a driving enthusiast to play LFS prefer a manual box. I myself thoroughly enjoy the H-pattern shifter and probably will never buy a car without one. I double-clutch heel-toe my Maxima every day, as ridiculous as it may sound, and as for driving aids in LFS, they're all off (well, except auto-clutch, as I don't have a G25). Bring it on. :D

Why would one prefer an automatic in LFS anyway? Last time I tried it out it slowed me down considerably, waiting to downshift until I got on the throttle in the middle of a turn, and in the process jerking the car around. And why would the throttle cut on upshift be an aid? Flat-shifting (no-lift shifting) in theory is slightly quicker than lift-shifting, although I prefer the latter... is this somehow balanced in LFS or should I continue to cringe while listening to my engine jump in between shifts?

SKaREO

1st May 2007, 10:57

The way I drive, I can't use auto shifting. I need to hear the engine to know exactly how fast I'm going and when to shift. I rarely look at the gauges, I'm all about the sounds! Without manual shift I am just not as focused on my speed and control on the track. I can't corner properly without manual shifting, probably because I can't use my gears to slow down the car. I also can't exit corners properly or regain control of tyre spin without manual shift. In fact, I would lose control of the car with auto shifting turned on, it is the opposite of helpful to drivers like us. :shrug:

MorpheusZero

1st May 2007, 12:02

Becky Rose

1st May 2007, 12:21

If you wait for the shift light it's already too late. I sometimes run an outguage app that plays an annoying alarm when the shift light comes on to train myself to change up just before it :)

mcintyrej

1st May 2007, 19:58

If you wait for the shift light it's already too late. I sometimes run an outguage app that plays an annoying alarm when the shift light comes on to train myself to change up just before it :)

Any chance on us having that app? I've been looking for something like that.

Becky Rose

2nd May 2007, 06:31

Alas no, but not out of mallice, firstly it's built into an unfinished and unpresentable version of LFS Companion, but mostly because the new version of insim due out in patch X - any time now - will break the whole thing and stop it from working.

I'm sure now it's mentioned somebody will do it, failing that if I ever get time to drive this game again I might make an app myself.

pacmanrr

2nd May 2007, 20:34

Alas no, but not out of mallice, firstly it's built into an unfinished and unpresentable version of LFS Companion, but mostly because the new version of insim due out in patch X - any time now - will break the whole thing and stop it from working.
Becky, i´m fairly new to LFS but when I found LFS Companion and learn how to use it IT IS MY RACE COMPANION :thumb: :( with the new patch is going to become unusable ??:( could you make a sameasitisnownoenhancements version of LFS for patch X :tilt: :tilt:

PD I´m aware of the thread of LFSC but please :shrug:

SpikeyMarcoD

3rd May 2007, 04:49

I am also using it :shrug: Would be missed if i can't use it no more. I obviously dont know if it would take a long time to make it compatible.

Swiss_Tony

3rd May 2007, 12:31

I've often wondered if the shift light is actually that accurate. Particularly in the FOX. It seems to be a bit better in the TBOs but I still have a feeling of distrust about it and really just use it as a guide. I tend to think that the engine has more torque to offer for the given gear before changing up. I haven't completely made my mind up on this though as I'm sure the programming would ensure it's accuracy. I just find it hard to convince myself though :shrug:

SamH

3rd May 2007, 13:01

Swiss_Tony

3rd May 2007, 14:01

Maybe that's why I've been a bit wary about it. I've been treating it like a "red line" marker. I'm still a bit dubious though as sometimes it feels like I'm "short-shifting" if I pay too much attention to the thing. It may just be that my impression of where the torque is, is different to where it really is. Unfortunately, thats just a limitation of any sim as in a real car you can simply feel it and there's no question about it.

Maybe I should get one of those seats that kicks you in the back and damages your spine or something. Nah, that's a terrible idea. :)

Viper93

3rd May 2007, 14:09

TBH I wait until the light is on to shift. I may lose a tiny little bit of accel but it takes away the pain of trying to watch the rev counter to see when it's going to be just before the red light comes on.

IF I wasn't switching between so many cars and setups during a week/day I could listen to the revvs but frankly I don't have the time to put in the effort when I could be concentrating on where my next brake/turn point is...

MorpheusZero

3rd May 2007, 21:20

I think the way it's coded, the light comes on when the next gear offers more torque than the current gear. Even though the current gear has room for acceleration, the light shows that the next gear up has more effective torque to offer.

I'm not sure how realistic it is.. I don't know if real cars have this dynamic calculation.. I've always assumed it was just a "red line" marker. Since there's no engine damage to speak of at the moment, in LFS, a classic red line is a bit pointless.

Well if you mean "effective torque" as in torque at the drive wheels then that's technically the way I see it, but an easier way to say that would just be power. I always thought the shift light came on the instant of the "crossover" moment, or when the power in the next gear at that speed would be greater than the power in the current gear.