Project KAM (Keyboard and Mouse)

[Lola Popeye]

Dear Members of the LFS Community,

There was a post on this forum recently, calling for banning of non-wheel devices. I think that has upset many of the keyboarders and mousers that exist within the community. So that got me thinking, instead of banning them, I am now going to do the opposite! I think its time to encourage Keyboard and Mouse drivers, no I’m not saying trash your wheel and use keyboard, what I mean is help out these players without a wheel and teach them how-to play and enjoy LFS with whatever controls they have.

With that in mind, my team, SCCabCo has decide that we, with the help of everybody in the Keyboard/Mouse community will create a comprehensive guide that will help Keyboarders/Mousers drive faster and as a consequence have more fun. Now I am not saying that miracles are going to happen, and Ks/Mouse players will top the hotlap charts, but I DO believe that these of us without a wheel can keep up with the majority of wheel users and have enjoyable close racing. How this will work is there will be a forum where all the keyboarders and mousers can gather and discuss tips, and share sets. Information from the forums will then be compiled into a neat little guide, and be regularly updated as new information comes in.

Now, many of you are probably asking ‘Just get a wheel you loser!’ or ‘Why are you guys doing this?’.

Answering the first question, there are many many reasons why some of us play with Keyboard/Mouse. Some of us simply can’t afford to buy a wheel, others might have a wheel, but still opt to use keyboard because it is much more convenient. For example, I don’t have 1-2 hour LFS sessions, when I have free time, I load up LFS and have a quick race or 2, I just don’t have the time to setup a wheel. Some people might not have the room to set-up a wheel, and for some students who sneaks in a game of LFS between ‘Study’, it is quite hard to make a wheel disappear quickly.

Why are we doing this? To put it simply, we just want to help out. Plus we believe helping Keyboarder’s and Mouser’s alike will ultimately support the growth of LFS. Let me explain, the Demo servers are the first impressions a player gets of the game, and whether he will ever buy S2 might be decided right then and there. Now if you visit some of the demo servers, it is not uncommon to see 30-50% of drivers using keyboard, and then you goto S2 and what do you find? There might be 1 Keyboard player per server sometimes, and usually none. Now where did that 30-50% go? A few might of bought S2 and then a wheel, but more likely than not, they got so frustrated with the game because they simply can’t drive well and gave up ‘it’s just too hard’. But if we can help just 100 of these players, and have them go on to buy S2, that’s 100 more players to the LFS community, and more money that goes into the development of our beloved game. We also believe this COULD help reduce the number of wreckers, I know it’s a stretch, but it’s a longshot, maybe if they learn how-to drive forward well, they’ll stay that way.

The SCCC team behind this is Myself, GianniC (GC), YnoT and Tukko, and we have received the thumbs up from legendary Keyboarders such as Orion, and current mouse superstar PartyBoyU.

I am hoping for a positive response from the community!

This project is still in its very early stages, but feel free to signup to the forums and start chatting it up.

Site: http://kam.sccabco.com (http://kam.sccabco.com/)
Forums: http://www.sccabco.com/phpBB2/index.php?c=3

And as we say - Keyboard Power! and/or Mouse Power!


[SCCC] Chensta Ex-Keyboarder, Current Mouser

[MorroW]

I'm also ex-keyboarder and in demo times you are that guy who help
me about setting my controls. This really help me.

Later you made little guide and as you now, this not help one or 2 driver...
there are many drivers who read that and thats one part of their developing driving skills.

I really hope that project goes well and soon we all can read very good guide book :)


Best wishes,
MorroW :)

[the_angry_angel]

I completely agree with everything you've said Chensta :)

Keep up the good work, and good luck :Handshake

[The Very End]

Yea! Great work and good luck.
Many players plays with keyboard so that would be good.

I remember old days, then the keyboard drivers could do the same speed as wheel users. I am ex-keyboard driver, but I remember on S1 to get a 1.27.XX lap one time, and I have seen other done it too.

But after the release of S2 everything has changed, keyboard drivers can never be even near to get those laps as wheel drivers, this muhc because the devs simply did the helping more slowly, easier, but slower :\

So I hope they can do something with this, and I will encourage every man with keyboard to use it with a good smile, and ignore people that says, god damn , buy a wheel n00b ^^

Good prosject, wish you all good luck.

[Mogar]

Well, I think that keyboard is not the way to go on lfs.. Even on the days of assisted steering on keyboard I quit this kind of controller because I was not satisfied with the reactions sometimes when I went through the curbs. Then I discovered that my setups had very big issues that would make them undriveable on other controller methods.

I don't support bringing back the old system, and it's not related with the fact that I use a wheel today. I think that it was unfair with some mouse drivers, and the old kb system don't make you to use actual driving techniques.

But mouse is a very competitive way. I've played lfs with mouse for a long period on S1 days, and could even fight for some world records using that. My teammate Carlos uses mouse and he is a very fast driver.


The advantage of mouse over keyboard is that mouse lets you to use actual driving techniques, so most part of the problem is to know actual driving techniques. Other part of the problem (imo) is to have a fast computer in order to get a fast visual feedback of the virtual wheel as a feedback of the mouse position.


Imo, the best view for mouse drivers is the cockpit view, because the virtual wheel is much more precise than that curved bar that you get on other views as a feedback of the mouse position. Since the virtual wheel is more precise and is nearer from the viewing point, I think that it should always be used.



As any other controller, mouse takes time to master. My FPS game days helped me a lot on having a precise mouse control, so I took about 1 and 1/2 week to be on par with my keyboard laps (on the assisted steering days). Actually I took much more time to be able to be fast with my wheel than I got to be fast with mouse.


And everyone can afford a good quality mouse, so I don't think that it's an excuse. Also every computer have a mouse, so it can't be used as an excuse too.

[96 GTS]

and for some students who sneaks in a game of LFS between ‘Study’, it is quite hard to make a wheel disappear quickly.
Who me??? I've never played LFS during class.... yeah, that's it. :D I'm a dedicated wheel user at home, but I still love all our KAM friends, I think they're just as entitled to this wonderful sim as anyone else. Of course, I'm very sympathetic, I've had to suffer with a 1.0GHz PIII, 256MB RAM, 32MB videocard, and a non-ffb joystick or mouse for a very long time. I will say that LFS is more fun with a wheel and a nice system, but I don't think we should exclude anyone. Just my $0.02

[nikimere]

nice work!! :D

[HASTA]

As a keyboarder and an owner of a logitech wingman, i'm saying again and again: for some people keyboard is much more FUNNIER than a wheel!!! Especially when playing BL1 XFG. They always said that this is a sim-racing game. Yes i know it, and that's why i play LFS. I don't care about the controller of the game, i care about the garage.

People ask all the time why are some racers are so fast with mouse and keyboard, is this a bug or not? The answer of this question is that they play too much (when i say too much, it is more than 3 hours a day) and they are talented. LFS Developers make LFS harder and harder for keyboarders in every new patch but we are still alive and we will survive!

[Zero7]

As a full-time mouse player I fully agree with all your suggestions (simply don't have the room for a wheel at the moment). I'd be happy to share suggestions/take suggestion from other kb/mouse players.

Get the thumbs up from me!

[GianniC]

As a keyboarder and an owner of a logitech wingman, i'm saying again and again: for some people keyboard is much more FUNNIER than a wheel!!! Especially when playing BL1 XFG. They always said that this is a sim-racing game. Yes i know it, and that's why i play LFS. I don't care about the controller of the game, i care about the garage.

People ask all the time why are some racers are so fast with mouse and and keyboard, is this a bug or not? The answer of this question is that they play too much (when i say too much, it is more than 3 hours a day) and they are talented. LFS Developers make LFS harder and harder for keyboarders in every new patch but we are still alive and we will survive!

AMEN

Therefor SCCC has decided to start Project KAM ! We hope to see a lot of reaction from you and who knows this is the start of a real KAM community inside LFS.

[smack]

hey, good luck with project kam, i kno i sneak in between study and lfs, that why i play in window mode lol,

[vpr01]

while im not in total disagreement of the idea, i dont think its a good thing to encourage more keyboard and mouse users...

more of a selfish point really, since i found keyb/mouse incredibly dull to use racing. i will stick by saying "What's the point? Get a wheel!"

[Lola Popeye]

So are you suggesting, instead of of encouraging Keyboard and Mouse users, we should just tell em to get a wheel, and if they cant (which is probably, hence why their using Ks/Mouse inthe first place) they should just leave LFS?

[kevin_vikkerman]

If you can't afford a wheel like me, and using mouse myself. I want to enjoy this sim as much as possible. It's not my fault that i cannot afford a wheel. While many people think keyboards and/or mousers are slow and lame, i myself think i'm pretty fast and drive pretty clean.

[xaotik]

while im not in total disagreement of the idea, i dont think its a good thing to encourage more keyboard and mouse users...

more of a selfish point really, since i found keyb/mouse incredibly dull to use racing. i will stick by saying "What's the point? Get a wheel!"

I don't quite follow your logic but you're saying that because you don't like to use a kb/mouse you wouldn't like someone else to? Well okay, I guess that's a valid point of sorts IF, and I stress the IF - let me stress that IF a little more - the project's goal was evangelizing the use of kb/mouse for playing LFS, which it is not. It's just helping out people who already are using different controllers to enjoy the game more.

Good luck on the guides - I already used and appreciated your first kb guide, Chensta.

[vpr01]

like i said, quite a selfish point. I just dont see how someone can get any enjoyment from a racing game with keyb/mouse!

[kevin_vikkerman]

I can get just as much as enjoyment from driving with mouse then other people with wheels, im just as addicted to S2 as them :D

[Zero7]

like i said, quite a selfish point. I just dont see how someone can get any enjoyment from a racing game with keyb/mouse!

That's very harsh. I get an immense amount of enjoyment out of racing games, it's just that LFS does mouse control very well.

I've introduced two people to LFS and they both find it fantastic and they don't have a wheel.

OK, granted I'm sure that having a wheel immerses you in the experience that much more, but you can't assume that players with kb and mouse don't get any enjoyment out of racing games.

[smack]

am a ks user and i have a wheel too, to be honest i dont really see any difference in enjoyment, using either one feels the same

[jmkz]

that's because you forgot to turn on FF ;p

[vpr01]

that's because you forgot to turn on FF ;p
clearly :D

[smack]

nope its on, and am not sayin that keyboard is better than wheel, am jus sayin that u could get enjoyment from ks too,

besides this kam project is not to encourage more keyboard or mouse users, but to help those who have no choice but to use em.

[jmkz]

I'm not talking about the enjoyment, I'm replying to this statement :p

using either one feels the same

[smack]

well Duh!!! wheel has a better feel that ks, its a wheel after all. i was talkin about enjoyment.

[jmkz]

please don't get upset, was just joking, sorry if it offended :) , notice all the smileys in my posts please

[smack]

lol, am not upset, dont worry, not offended, i dont visit the forum often, so i dunno how to use the smileys

[QuickSilver]

yay finnaly some reconition lol ive been using KB since about S1B, after patch E i gave up lfs for about 2 months time because i was so frustrated with the new system with no KB help, but i finnnaly got back into it and learned to drift again. drifting in s2 is not nearly big as it was in S1 and i think its because of the new physics and the tire wear etc. i dont grip much but if i do i use AWD or RWD front wheel is just too hard for me with the ol' KB. i have a logitech nasscar wheel for ps2 sitting around and reacently ordered a ps2 to usb adapter for it so i can finnaly try a wheel. im looking forward to posting on the KB forum you have and hope i can be of help to the KB comunity.

[Gunn]

I don't think there is even an issue worth considering here really. One person calls for a ban on keyboards and mouse? Where is this? Obviously it is not big news or worth even worrying about. I believe the proportion wheel users who detest the use of anything else is really quite small, most people are understanding or couldn't care less anyway.

Firstly let's get one thing straight. LFS is being developed for use with an analogue Wheel and Pedal set. You would expect no less from one of the only true race sims to ever be made. If you think there are a lot of purists in LFS well that is natural, to anyone who has been craving a true race sim that works well online this is their holy grail. So firstly, wheel will always be best and people who keep saying so are only speaking the truth, despite it sometimes sounding elitest or prejudiced towards others. Wheel users actually want you to join them, if you can. So wheel rules, and so it should.

Fortunately we can use other methods to control cars in LFS and apart from an analouge joystick (works quite well) the mouse is your next wisest choice. While I respect good keyboard racers, I marvel at the time they spend perfecting their technique to battle the digital on/off restrictions of keyboard control. Your mouse is there in front of you offering the promise of smooth steering control and more variety in car setups. If your mouse is too sensitive or too dull, try changing the mouse options in Windows Control Panel until you find a good setting for your style.

Gamepads may offer some small advantages over Keyboard control but even if they have analogue joysticks the range is often too small to be a great benefit.

Keyboard control is indeed difficult. While some automatic aid is still available, the response now when you press a key resembles more closely the real actions required to pilot the car. The result is usally a rather intricate symphony of tapping and pressing of keys that would make Mozart stare in wonder if he were only here to see it.
There can be no doubt that keyboard control does indeed take skill to be effective. There can be no doubt that mouse users really do have to control the car in a similar manner to wheel users and their skill is probably transferable from one controller to the other.
There can be no doubt that a force feeback analogue wheel and pedal set will change LFS for you forever, will change sim racing for you forever. Those who keep harping about the joy of having a wheel are often saying so because they feel like non-wheel users are missing out on the magic of LFS.

For most wheel users though we couldn't give a rat's bum what other people use as long as they race cleanly and competitively. By encouraging people to use other devices and not a force-feedback wheel is really holding them back from a great experience. Down with the revolution! :hyper:

*I support your actions to help others learn to use their chosen controller, I am sure most wheel users would also.

[Tweaker]

:iagree:

A wheel is a well spent investment for any sim. The pain and anguish of having limited control ability with keyboard or other digital controller is just too much to worry about.

When I first got into sims, I bought a wheel right away. It wasn't a force feedback wheel at the time, but it was something that had pedals, which seemed mandatory for the games I played (still is for current sims). Once my friends saw how much fun I was having, they ALL went out and bought themselves wheels, and we had large network races against each other -- where the fun was at. Then came along one friend who decided to buy a force feedback wheel and we were hooked even more... the control preference evolved in all of us and we got ourselves some nice wheels. I lucked out on buying the red MOMO wheel, and can say that is was worth it, even if it costed me more than the average FF wheel. Everyone knows you gotta have force feedback, tells you more about your driving performance than you ever thought possible without FF.

Now, whenever I have friends having an interest in this game, they start out asking why it is so hard with keyboard or mouse. I tell them this is no NFS game that they are all used to, and if I have my PC or wheel handy, I'll show them how it feels. They either go out and buy a wheel, or ask if they can play on my computer when I am not using it :).

I do give all my support to those who don't choose a wheel to drive, possibly if they cannot afford one, or if they don't want to even buy one.... that is still quite a tough setup you got for a racing simulation :). If you don't ever decide to switch, well good luck with any sort of project or ideas you have to make this difficult and slow control type feel successful, pretty soon the urge to buy a wheel will come to you :D

[Lola Popeye]

thx for the replies guys, like i said earlier, this project isnt about getting more people to mouse/keyboard drivers, but merely helping out these who are already using it, and doesnt have a choice. Hopefully they will one day be able to get a wheel, but at least for now they can enjoy competitive racing with Ks and Mouse

[thd]

So are you suggesting, instead of of encouraging Keyboard and Mouse users, we should just tell em to get a wheel, and if they cant (which is probably, hence why their using Ks/Mouse inthe first place) they should just leave LFS?

I think the reason most people don't have a wheel to begin with, is that they simply haven't needed one before... it's not like wheels are normal options when you buy a new computer. It's specialized equipment for special use :)

[RacingSimFan]

Helping k/b and mouse users out is a great idea but nevertheless you should also encourage them to buy a wheel if their situation allows for it because k/b and mouse can be very limiting as to the full spectrum of this game.

Many CRC guys are noting that it seems like the CRC has a love affair with the XFR. Primarily thats because it is FWD and therefore much more k/b-friendly. A bunch of my online buddies are k/b'ers and can't drive cars like the FO8 (on anything but the oval) while some of us can. We have lots of fun racing the FO8 on courses like AS National but many of the guys we know and trust can't join us.

We love them and enjoy racing with them but wish they would get wheels so that certain cars aren't a problem.

[PistonHead]

I applaud your efforts - keep up the good work helping the LFS community :D I've got big respect for the KB guys who invest a lot of their time to become competitive also :D

For the record though i would urge anyone who is a regular on LFS, and can afford a wheel to get one as soon as possible! You owe it to yourself to get the best experience from your favourite racing sim !!! You Won't regret it :)

[HASTA]

In the first days of S2's new lfsworld there was a difference between the controllers at the world records list page. After some days this difference dissapeared. Why did this difference dissapeared? It was a good challenge between mousers and keyboarders. Now we have to open 744 charts to see the records.

[Honey]

In the first days of S2's new lfsworld there was a difference between the controllers at the world records list page. After some days this difference dissapeared. Why did this difference dissapeared? It was a good challenge between mousers and keyboarders. Now we have to open 744 charts to see the records.

because with mouse i was beating also wheel records, so devs tought that mouse is faster than wheel... :D

seriously: the bad thing was that it allowed poor wheelers to go up into the hotlap chart, by doing harder hotlaps with mouse instead...anyway, i think that it would be good to add view filters ;)

[Lola Popeye]

because with mouse i was beating also wheel records, so devs tought that mouse is faster than wheel... :D


since when did you learn to drive? :) but yea, on the WR page it will be nice like before where you can click Wheel, Ks,Kn or Mouse and see an overview of all the records for each controller for that track on just one page :D

[DieselRO]

I played S1 2 years ago with keyboard of course... i let it go after about few weeks...

now i'm playing again with keyboard but i can only race the XF GTi propperly because i can floor the throttle all the way in most of the corners. The RWD's are a nightmare ... i can't get more than 3 laps in a row without spinning out (using Bob Smith's easy race setup)

the steering is fine with the keyboard (i'm using the no-help... the assited one just keeps helping me in the wrong direction) i'm having a lot of trouble with the pedals... or lack of ;)

anyway: toninght i'm gonna give the mouse a try... again :)

[Goldee]

hey people ! i'm ok with chensta , why keyboarders guys can't be fast like people who play with wheel , we need more help for WR :p plz scawen

[PLAYLIFE]

now i'm playing again with keyboard but i can only race the XF GTi propperly because i can floor the throttle all the way in most of the corners. The RWD's are a nightmare ... i can't get more than 3 laps in a row without spinning out (using Bob Smith's easy race setup)


I can drive the FOX in all tracks and FO8 on some with Ks.

The secret is to
1) having an understeery car (much-much more back wing than front a la 1 at front and 16 at the back)
2) moving the 1st gear ratio button to left (by very much ) and 2nd and 3rd gear just by a tincy bit to left...

You ownt have super fast laptimes but you won't spin out either. Finishing in top3-4 if perfectly manageable, sometimes even wins, as many people crash out driving a wheel

[P5YcHoM4N]

I'm probably the only one. But for some reason I'm faster using my mouse then I am my wheel :pillepall

But the best tip I can give is use a mouse, and learn morse code. And in RWD cars, take the corner one gear higher then you need too, which helps prevent spinouts :thumb:

[Honey]

I'm probably the only one. But for some reason I'm faster using my mouse then I am my wheel :pillepall

But the best tip I can give is use a mouse, and learn morse code. And in RWD cars, take the corner one gear higher then you need too, which helps prevent spinouts :thumb:

same here :)

probably we need a good wheel with force feedback, but it's a shame that mouse and keyboard racers are so penalised...

it is true that with much practise, mouse can be fast as wheel but only for hotlapping, because in race with mouse your tires will die much faster, so again a fast mouse racer is penalised...

what i would like from scawen to implement is throttle/brake with mouse wheel or make the mouse wheel to control the percentage of throttel/brake to apply when the throttle or brake button is pressed.

actually i'm developing a tool to achieve this, but with the first model i implemented it's worse because of windows timing that are so unaccurate, so i will reimplement it with real axis, but i'm so lazy and also i think that if scawen do not want to implement such thing into lfs, he will also not be happy for me to make this tool available.

PS two days ago i took for the first time the f08 on blackwood, i spent a lot time to make a fast and good setup and i could make 1.04.50, but a slight mistake while "tapping" throttle during corners and i started to drift, if i do it right, my tires are dead after 2 laps, i think it will be not unfair to give mouse a smoother way to control trhottle/brakes...
...to be honest, i must say i know there is a way to use the up/down axes of mouse as throttle/brake but it's really impossible to use it: in the best case you cannot "full throttle" because it requires too much movement and if you lift the mouse to adjust, you crash! ...it's a real pain i tried for long time but i was never able to make a lap without crashing... :(

i really hope Scawen will implement the throttle/brake with mouse wheel... :shy:

[GianniC]

In the first days of S2's new lfsworld there was a difference between the controllers at the world records list page. After some days this difference dissapeared. Why did this difference dissapeared? It was a good challenge between mousers and keyboarders. Now we have to open 744 charts to see the records.

>> http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=122 <<

I won't ever bother defending KB against Wheel, it has no use. Everyone keeps saying, no mather what I say, 'get a wheel'. Now I will keep driving KB :) Burn the wheels :nod:

Perhaps if the KB community was larger and there was more (specialiased) setup making (=more testing) KB would be faster. And, if the KB / KAM community would work more together and 'form a bigger front' by meetings, shearing info,... We would get stronger vs Wheel users.

But hey..if everyone keeps telling "get a wheel"..nobody is left to use and test KB unless a few of us..which automaticly gives KB another push backwards. :(

(do some people now get why I hate the "get a wheel" phrase ?)

[GianniC]

Finishing in top3-4 if perfectly manageable, sometimes even wins, as many people crash out driving a wheel

Hey, grab up your motiviation, it's not cause you drive with KB or M that you can't have to go for the win _as much_ as you can! I'm not driving for 4th place ;)

[three_jump]

I respect all mouse and keyboard drivers, started myself with the good old keyboard and loved it :lovies3d:.
No_one ;) forces you to buy a wheel or use it in LFS, it's just that this game is a car racing simulator and I've never seen any racing car with a keyboard :scratchch.

Keep it up with your keyboards, and don't forget the fun when you're playing in the wheeled world ;)

3j

[robt]

A bunch of my online buddies are k/b'ers and can't drive cars like the FO8

well pickaxe, im keyboard and im pretty nifty round FEgreen reverse in it, 1:01 isnt exactly slow.........i hope :Looking_a

[VTcommodore]

to solve everything just get a wheel

[Lola Popeye]

try reading some of the posts on this thread on why dat isnt an option.

[VTcommodore]

but its always an option

[Lola Popeye]

me being an billionaire is always an option too, i can go stick up mr gates and take all his money, NOW if thats actually feasible is another thing right?

[VTcommodore]

wheels arnt expensive i picked up my new MOMO racing force for 130 bucks last month dude

[Fragmatic]

wheels arnt expensive i picked up my new MOMO racing force for 130 bucks last month dude

Maybe people have more important things to spend 130 bucks on, such as rent, bills, food, etc.

[VTcommodore]

and fuel yes its so high in OZ atm aghh yeh but its like less then a days work for me

[kernelpanic]

Chensta, this sounds like a pretty good idea.

To the community, remember that LFS 0.1 started out as a mouse sim, and the mouse support in this game has evolved to the point where it can rival FPS precision. In fact, I have always wondered why racing game developers eschew mouse as input and instead only offer KB or wheel. I mean, the mouse is used extensively in FPS, RTS, RPG games. Why not racing? I can't even name any other PC racing games that have ever offered mouse steering. Are developers this monolithic? Well, I have used both mouse and wheel in LFS and here's my take:

Wheel (Driving Force Pro):
Good:
+ Analog pedal input (instead of digital on/off)
+ Precise steering control
+ FF improves experience (though not necessarily laptimes)
Bad:
- Very hard to countersteer (especially if you don't have a sturdy desk like I do)
- Also, I bought the DFP for the 900 degrees feature, but it's basically useless, because it takes ages to go lock to lock, or to countersteer. Essentially any wheel setting above 180 to 270 degrees is pretty useless, unless the wheel is *really* loose (glides fast), which the Logitic FF wheels aren't (they are clunky).
- Forces a fixed driving position (my backsides sweats a lot)
- Probably the No. 1 reason not to use wheel: You have to mount/dismount every time of use, if you don't have a permanent table setup.

Mouse:
Good:
+ No setup required
+ Easy to master if you come from the FPS/RTS universe like Quake3, WC3 (like me)
+ Actually, surprisingly precise (the key is to turn down lock-to-lock steering value in setups)
+ *Extremely* quick countersteer. Basically, you will not loose the tail end (even in GTRs or Formulas) ever because you couldn't countersteer fast enough (which happened often when I used wheel)
+ Free ($0), assuming every computer comes with a mouse.
Bad:
- Wrist pain after long LFS sessions
- Digital (on/off) throttle (this can be partially mitigated by setting "button control rate" to a low value, like 2.0)
- Sometimes, mouse skips due to unclean surfaces.


I think somebody mentioned this before (BobSmith?), but it is pretty important to have cockpit view with wheel on, so that you can receive visual feedback to your mouse inputs, unlike wheel where you may want to turn off the virtual wheel because it turns at a different rate as your RL one.

Mouse control is the a major reason keeping me coming back to LFS these days. If any other driving games offer mouse control, I would jump aboard to try them out. For example, why doesn't the NFS series offer mouse as an *additional* control option? Beats me.

Based on my online races, mouse is competitive. I don't race much anymore, but my last AS National XRR mouse PB is 1:45.3x. I have raced a handful of mousers in FXRs that hit the 1:44.xx mark in AS National.

My current mouse setup:

Button control rate: 2.0
X-axis: Mouse steering
Throttle: Right mouse button
Brake: Left mouse button
Downshift: Z
Clutch: X
Upshift: C
Auto clutch: On
Auto Upshift lift: On
Auto Downshift blip: On
View: Cockpit view, wheel on, driver on
View angle: 106 degrees

Have fun. :)

-KernelPanic

[Ardent]

anyway, i think that it would be good to add view filters ;)

uhm, there are filters for controllers and countries if I remember correctly.

I myself wouldn't even bother playing a racing game with keyboard. Yes, it requires more skill, so does eating soup with a shovel, but it does not make sense.

[PLAYLIFE]

I myself wouldn't even bother playing a racing game with keyboard. Yes, it requires more skill, so does eating soup with a shovel, but it does not make sense.

What if you have a shovel and food. Buying a spoon requires money, which you don't have. You are hungry. You don't eat at all?

[GianniC]

Chensta, this sounds like a pretty good idea.

.....................

-KernelPanic

Thanks for your reaction -finally something really more on topic :nod: - perhaps we use it for our KAM-guide (still under constrction..bit lack of time due exams and all..but patience will be rewarded..one day ;) )