Wheels required while other devices banned

[Revzalot]

I think wheels should be required to play LFS while other input devices should be banned such as the mouse, trackball, etc. This is an auto racing simulation after all and someone should program LFS to not allow the user to race with a mouse in MULTIPLAYER mode. *Flame suit on*

[L(Oo)ney]

:rolleyes:

[Michel 4AGE]

Partly agree
But then , I've used mouse myself too for 1 yr

*me runs out of thread*

[B2B@300]

*Flame suit on*

LOL Your going to need it :razz:

Seriously though it wouldnt be effective, even now windows cant tell the difference between a wheel and a gamepad :tilt: so it would only be a matter of time before someone figured out a way to get a mouse to register as a wheel :D

[Gabkicks]

yeah, i played lfs for a few months before i bought a driving force. then a year later got the driving force pro. so i have pity for the non wheel users. :)

[Revzalot]

Come on guys. Why did you buy LFS in the place? Because you wanted to experience the closest thing being into a race car right. Do you see race cars equiped with a mouse? No. 'nuff said.

[kel64]

Come on guys. Why did you buy LFS in the place? Because you wanted to experience the closest thing being into a race car right. Do you see race cars equiped with a mouse? No. 'nuff said.

Many people start playing the game before they own a wheel, as before they had no need. Certainly was the case for me.

[Hummer]

Come on guys. Why did you buy LFS in the place? Because you wanted to experience the closest thing being into a race car right. Do you see race cars equiped with a mouse? No. 'nuff said.
Wrong. Some ppl just tried it with mouse/keyboard, and soon they got addicted. And after a few days, they bought a wheel.

[L(Oo)ney]

I think a motion simulator should be required to play LFS. If you dont have a motion simulator, you shouldnt be allowed to play LFS.

This is an auto racing simulation after all and someone should program LFS to not allow the user to race without a motion simulator. *flame suit on*

[Hummer]

yeah, and I don't want to see racers without their helmets anymore!

[L(Oo)ney]

yeah, and I don't want to see racers without their helmets anymore!

Yep, full race equipment will also be required.

That means, flame proof suit, flame proof gloves and shoes, and flame proof underwair. Race spec helmet, aswell as a neck brace.

If you dont have these, tough, you're not allowed to race, because its not realistic.

[SparkyDave]

no sim socks no racing !! :D

seems a silly thread to me ! ;)

SD.

[nosliw]

no sim socks no racing !! :D

seems a silly thread to me ! ;)

SD.

I have to agree :nod:

[Blackout]

I have never played LFS with mouse or kb it must be horrible. But it would be really bad to ban those devices, remember that guy who plays LFS with his mouth? Would be terrible to ban someone bacause he/she cant use wheel.

You have lost for kber in a race havent you Revzalot? :razz:

[mrbogeyman]

believe me, wheels can be just as bad as KB! or should i say MOMO pedals! aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! :irked::irked::irked::irked: shoddy logitech....never again.....

[dUmAsS]

who cares what people use to race?

why nto just let people get on with the racing and make it as open to as many people as possible, that way scawen, eric and victor get more money.

or do you want them living on the streets ;)

[avih]

mouse is as good (or better) than wheel on some cars. more accurate and more direct response. the only issue is digital gas/break. i've used mouse too when i 1st tried lfs. then, few months later i got a wheel.

bad racers should be banned. mouse and kb should stay imo.

[Blackout]

believe me, wheels can be just as bad as KB! or should i say MOMO pedals! aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! :irked::irked::irked::irked: shoddy logitech....never again.....

Fixed them with tape, have been working very smoothly since then...*knocks wood*

[Revzalot]

Maybe I was too overboard on my statement up top. I guess the question is does the server admin have the power to control all the driving aids such as disallow all the aids except auto clutch for his/her server?

[Forbin]

I think wheels should be required to play LFS while other input devices should be banned such as the mouse, trackball, etc. This is an auto racing simulation after all and someone should program LFS to not allow the user to race with a mouse in MULTIPLAYER mode. *Flame suit on*
Got your ass handed to you by a mouser, didn't you...

Twat...

:feedtroll

[Revzalot]

Got your ass handed to you by a mouser, didn't you...

Twat...

:feedtroll
Actually got my ass rammed. Where you been?

[snewham]

I used keyboard for half a year and I was as clean and as fast as most wheel racers. As long as someone is fast ad clean then it shouldn't be a problem. The problem arises when u get a keyboard driver trying to race the lx6 around south city... :(

[Tweaker]

Let people use what they want... or else you get servers that are very seperated and not everyone will be playing together... leaves people out, and could have fewer people playing online. The more people playing, the better, regardless of their control type.

I could care less if a keyboarder uses the FO8 with the keyboard. If the player is terrible at driving with those controls, oh well, do your best to avoid him, that's not too hard. The best thing to do is to find out the easy way, and not the hard way. In other words, don't expect the grid to be a great start every time... so check the connections list before a restart, look at what controls people are using, and you know who to look out for.

I sometimes use mouse occasionally -- when I wan't to just casually drive without setting up my wheel.

[Forbin]

Actually got my ass rammed. Where you been?
Shit happens. Get over it.

Plenty of n00bs out there with wheels, too.

[xapexcivicx]

If you really are concerned how people view this as a sim...Then suggest a "Best Played with Wheel" screen. Not a flame war.

[GP4Flo]

Alex Zanardi doesn't use pedals either, would you ban him from racing because of his "input method"?

[Vendetta]

"Best Played with Wheel" screen.


Their already is.


This is an incredibly stupid idea to remove mouse and keyboard.

[Cargo]

I know where this comes from :)

And really, there was that one fella on there *cough*palad..*cough* who supposedly has a wheel and he counldn't keep it on the track or away from other people either.

I've played with a joystick since DOS/NFS1 and finally broke down crying and begging for a split-axis wheel. It is what it is. Avoid the Noid(s).

[DeadWolfBones]

What about a server-side option to only allow certain controllers?

[lucky]

I think that full (real life) international racing license, medical check and a proper personal insurance should be required for people wnting to drive the race cars (i.e. the ones on slicks).

This is an auto racing simulation after all and someone should program LFS to not allow the user to race without a license, medical check and perosnal insurance. *flame suit on*

:pillepall

[Bob Smith]

We'll have people complaining soon that Linux users get an unfair advantage by having a more stable system, and that LFS should be made explicitly Windows only. Then the Linux crew will come along and mouth off, and stop LFS from working on Windows. So then only Mac gamers will be able to play the game, which will suck, because by definition there aren't any (Pong isn't a game, it's torture).

[skiingman]

Come on guys. Why did you buy LFS in the place? Because you wanted to experience the closest thing being into a race car right. Do you see race cars equiped with a mouse? No. 'nuff said.

I own a wheel. I also live in a teensy dorm room and play LFS on a damn laptop. No room for a wheel here.

(6 seconds faster than you on WE Int'l with FV8...mouse and all. 4 seconds faster SO Town FOX...with mouse.)

Maybe you got rammed in the ass because you were in the damn way.

[Lola Popeye]

Ive been KB and Mouse racer since the S1 days, and I am able to keep up with the best of em with GTI's (used to anyway ;) ), and i can have great races with other cars, so its stupid to ban KB and Mouse. Everyday i meet mouse users and keyboard players who own a wheel, but cant be bothered set it up. Now if you just wanna give the server Admin the 'option' to ban them, then ofcourse alot of them r gonna go for it thinking 'it'll give cleaner races on my server'. Sorry, thats just no LFS

[Gimpster]

I think wheels should be required to play LFS while other input devices should be banned such as the mouse, trackball, etc. This is an auto racing simulation after all and someone should program LFS to not allow the user to race with a mouse in MULTIPLAYER mode. *Flame suit on*

Simple answer:

The fact that LFS is a very real simulation when using a wheel but still very drivable with other control methods means LFS can and will attract a wider range of users, drawing in more users, which just gives us more people to race with and the developers more money to keep developing this sim we have all come to enjoy.

Wheel only means we loose many users and such a loss would kill LFS, plain and simple. Personaly I would like to see it stay around for awhile, wouldn't you?

See you didn't even need your flame suite.

[J.B.]

I think wheels should be required to play LFS while other input devices should be banned such as the mouse, trackball, etc. This is an auto racing simulation after all and someone should program LFS to not allow the user to race with a mouse in MULTIPLAYER mode. *Flame suit on*

You forgot to mention a reason. Will the expirience be more immersive to you when you know that your opponents are all using a wheel? I know the idea sounds silly but it is the only one I could come up with.

[Woz]

The change in the old KB control system caused massive fights in the community, can you imagine the chaos wheel only would cause.

For me I would NEVER have started playing LFS if it was wheel only as I didn't have a wheel when I found LFS. That said I ordered a wheel in double quick time shortly after finding LFS :)

[(HUN)ultiMate]

A lot of racers with kb and mouse have bought S2(like me). If only wheel would be allowed, they are forced to spend ~50€(or more) on a wheel in order to play, but if they can't afford one, they wasted 24£. That's silly :pillepall

[vpr01]

i can understand people without a wheel when they try the game, but to get any kind of enjoyment out of it you do really need a wheel. so it would seem logical to try it before you buy it, and when u do buy it, save some up for a wheel too.

you guys are going off in a slight tangent, making slightly absurd comparisons to forcing people to use wheels. its more about their enjoyment of the game than it is making a fair playing field!

[Takumi_Project.d]

Wish some wheel users would stop looking down their noses at others.

Is any other controller better than a wheel? No.
Is any other controller able to get you faster laptimes than a wheel? No.

Wheel users have the advantage. I suggest if you can't win against a racer who uses a mouse or a keyboard, you need practise.

People have their reasons for not being able to buy wheels, be it money reasons, space reasons or even physical disability. Why should you excluse these people? Netkar does it, and i believe it's quite sad indeed.

Take a good, long hard look at yourself. You own a wheel, you have the best controller. Everyone else is at a disadvantage. Deal with it.

[Takumi_Project.d]

i can understand people without a wheel when they try the game, but to get any kind of enjoyment out of it you do really need a wheel. so it would seem logical to try it before you buy it, and when u do buy it, save some up for a wheel too.

It's your opinion. Sure a wheel may yield more enjoyment, but not everyone can buy and sometimes even use a wheel.

I am not disabled but i recall a handicapped guy on the forum telling us how he used a mouse and device he pressed with his tongue to brake.

What are you gonna tell him?

[PLAYLIFE]

This makes me really angry. It is not a problem of keyboard user if u got rammed. It is the problem in the user itself whether he drives wheel, mouse or whatever... I drive keyboard and I usually finish in top 4! My laptimes are slow compared to other racers (2-3 sec slower), but others loose out because they crash and spin all the time... and this is a real problem - people crashing/spinning into you and reversing into the racing line after a spin!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tailing]

but to get any kind of enjoyment out of it you do really need a wheel.

Why do you say this? It's quite obvious that many many people get a great deal of enjoyment out of playing LFS without owning a wheel. Good on them and thanks to the devs for having the foresight to allow anyone with a PC to play LFS.

[XCNuse]

sounds like a bad idea imo, that is, if you mean this should be an option for public servers
once again, you segregate the people that have money with the people that dont .. or just dont want to buy a wheel

either way, at first it may sound like a good idea, but what good is it really? the people with the wheels are usually the worst drivers quite honestly, i know cause when i hit N ingame and see everyone is using a wheel.. they are all over the place... while of course the WR holder uses a mouse..... lol i mean common, if your comfortable with what your using, why take it away from them? its not really a matter of real or not, rather what you are used to

[Nighty]

I use a Playstation style joypad because disability prevents me from using a wheel & pedals, so I'll be off then shall I.:really:

[LRB_Aly]

I see myself as a hardcore sim fan (or freak :)). I used wheels since the good old Indycar Racing and Grand Prix 2 days. Lots of people i know also fought i was crazy to buy the red Momo force that in time wasn't the cheapest one. I also drive a lot of Karting in rl. But hey thats just me, and i think that all kind of driving inputs has to be allowed. There are lot of poeple that are faster with mouse ore keyboard then, well they practiced and earned it. If someone really wants to drive only against wheel users then drive in a league, like the ESL's leagues. They have rules to just drive with wheel. Although it wouldn't bother me if there where also mouse and keyboard users. You can't say that all the mouse/keyboards drivers are slow or are wreckers cause that definitly don't apply. There are the ones that drive alot and there the ones that drive perhaps once a week, no matter what input they have. And personally i would rather drive against a full grid of keyboard/mouse drivers that drive clean and perhaps fast than against 5 wheel wreckers.

[L(Oo)ney]

I use a Playstation style joypad because disability prevents me from using a wheel & pedals, so I'll be off then shall I.:really:

I use a PS2 pad now aswell, because the the pedals for the wheel i bought, no longer work.

Until someone makes a decent wheel/pedal set, for less then £100, that doesnt break, then i wont be buying another wheel. And no, im not willing to buy a frex/other high end system, as their price's take the p!ss.

You should remove me from the game i've played for three years, just because i cannot use my wheel anymore because he pedals are crap and no longer work.

[B2B@300]

Why stop at a wheel? :tilt:

I don't think you should be able to play LFS unless you have a three monitor surround vision setup with a 6 speaker surrond sound system all housed in a $35,000.00 state of the art motion simulator

:really:

[Racer Y]

I dunno... Wheels, Mouse K/board even tha ps2 controller is ok by me. But I draw the line with Xbox controllers. Just who do those people think they are anyways?

LOL my daughter has one a those dance pads for the Playstation....wonder
what THAT would be like to use?

[B2B@300]

I dunno... Wheels, Mouse K/board even tha ps2 controller is ok by me. But I draw the line with Xbox controllers. Just who do those people think they are anyways?

:D Dont mock my xbox controller!

[Vain]

Dont mock my xbox controller!What do we have to fear? That it brakes our hands in revenge? :D

Vain

[Mc21]

I think a motion simulator should be required to play LFS. If you dont have a motion simulator, you shouldnt be allowed to play LFS.

This is an auto racing simulation after all and someone should program LFS to not allow the user to race without a motion simulator. *flame suit on*

Buy everyone 1 on this forum then.

[XCNuse]

LOL my daughter has one a those dance pads for the Playstation....wonder
what THAT would be like to use?

a Dance Dance Revolution pad :) i love that game, its good when its cold outside and you want to get some excercising in :)
i played GT4 once using one lol it was quite hard :p
had to use hands and feet though lol 2 legs were good enough for gas, brake, and turning :D

[L(Oo)ney]

Buy everyone 1 on this forum then.

Sure, no problem. Im a millionaire, didn't you know? :D

Pm me your bank detail's, and i'll transfer the funds into your account. :nod:

[Lola Popeye]

Sure, no problem. Im a millionaire, didn't you know? :D

Pm me your bank detail's, and i'll transfer the funds into your account. :nod:

Im sure u'll need his pin details too, so u can check if the transactions went thru....you know just incase.

[kevin_vikkerman]

I can keep up with any wheeler with my mouse with FOX. And im 1 sec off WR on BL GP. Having a mouse or k/b doesnt make you slow or noobish.....

[vpr01]

Why do you say this? It's quite obvious that many many people get a great deal of enjoyment out of playing LFS without owning a wheel. Good on them and thanks to the devs for having the foresight to allow anyone with a PC to play LFS.

i say it cos its true. before i got a wheel, i found racing games boring and missing something. i cant stand digital controls on games that need analogue for starters (racing genre a pure example), and keyboard users will be utterly useless in the more powerful cars.

ever since i got my wheel, ive rediscovered my love for racing games. keyboard just sucks, specially for sims. if you really cant afford a wheel, and still enjoy games like LFS, then fair enough. i just couldnt stand playing with the keyboard.

[RBSteve]

All these arguments about input devices makes me wonder why some people seem to be so interested in what everyone else is doing.

I drive sims because it gives me a kick to drive. To pretend, if you will, to drive fast cars in ways and surroundings I do not get to experience in real life. And obviously MY driving experience is not in any way affected by whatever input device someone else use.

Personally I can't fathom why anyone would WANT to drive a reasonably realistic racing game with anything other than a wheel and pedals, but that's their problem. People can drive by manipulating potentiometers with their teeth for all I care.

As far as unfair advantages goes, well, IF those who complain can beat all other wheel drivers yet get their butts kicked by keyboard drivers, then we can have a talk about fairness. Until then I would recommend everyone to worry more about their own driving experience and less about what other people do.

[jtr99]

As a serious player, I never drive in LFS unless I have heated the room up to about 50 degrees C, got a burning pot of oil going in the corner for the smell, and then asked a friend to stand behind me with a baseball bat ready to whack the side of my helmet whenever I hit a wall. Now that's realism.

[Fonnybone]

Another PSX fan here. Best controller ever. For those who care to actually
know the truth, it's analog, and not digital.

Since everyone has gone around it a few times, i might as well too :p
The fact that cars use wheels and pedal is not from divine intervention.
If cars started out using joysticks, we might still be using a joystick
today and you'd ridicule people who use those, eh, 'wheels'. There isn't
much holding this argument together. Ignorance brings prejudice.

[Ramses]

Another PSX fan here. Best controller ever. For those who care to actually
know the truth, it's analog, and not digital.

Since everyone has gone around it a few times, i might as well too :p
The fact that cars use wheels and pedal is not from divine intervention.
If cars started out using joysticks, we might still be using a joystick
today and you'd ridicule people who use those, eh, 'wheels'. There isn't
much holding this argument together. Ignorance brings prejudice.

Hold on a minute...

I agree that the steeringwheel wasn't chosen by merit but it did turn out to be the best solution. Joysticks and various fantastic devices have been tested but none does the job any better then the good old wheel and for obvious reasons.
- Wheels can give the driver support without false input. When you get thrown about in the cockpit you don't end up accidentaly steering into a ditch. Try using your mouse or joystick in a baja1000 race (IRL) and you'll know what I mean. A good motion simulator could render stick or mouse pritty much useless. I've been driving a forktruck with a joystick (for operating the column) for a year and the manual advised not to hold the stick while driving. I've tried it, unloaded of course, and a not anticipated bump would shift the column sideways, enough to topple a load with high CoG.
- Joys don't have seperate axis (duh) so you can accidentaly give steering input while accelerating or braking and vise versa. Wheels don't have that problem but the same goes for mouse or joypad.
- Needless to say that wheels initially allowed for purely muscle driven control. Allthough powersteering is widely used these days, the wheel is still directly connected to the front wheels giving us control regardless wether powersteering is in working order. That would not be the case with joystick, keyboard or any of the 'alternatives'.

We can use those controlers because we are not doing the real thing so I would have to agree that wheel & pedals is The Way to Go for a serious racingsim.

Nevertheless, games are for fun so I don't mind getting beaten by keyboard or mouse users. It hurts but I'm getting used to it :D

[MyBoss]

Come on guys. Why did you buy LFS in the place? Because you wanted to experience the closest thing being into a race car right. Do you see race cars equiped with a mouse? No. 'nuff said.


I can garantue that LFS will lose allot of potentional buyers if the team decided to make it wheel only. If it was wheel only, I wouldn't have bought S2, nor S1.

[RacingSimFan]

I don't think LFS should exclude non-wheel users.

But so long as this game does not have any assists such as Traction Control and Anti-lock Brakes, racers without analog throttle and brake input are going to suffer a lack of control in most of the cars in this game.

I believe that is the root of this whole debate.

It's not about branding certain devices 'good' or 'evil'.

It's about whether the inherent lack of car control that comes with non-analog input devices poses enough of a risk that some form of limit should be imposed by server admins on their particular server.

I know a lot of keyboard racers and can vouch for their skill and courtesy so I'm not going to alienate them by any means.

But I do believe that the original poster's question is legitimate if worded a little differently.

Please see this thread I started in the Suggestions forum that I believe is a solution amicable to all:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2362

[Gentlefoot]

Thing is, I may have never played the game had keyboard etc been banned. And never known how good it was. Now I've seen it I've bought a wheel. All I need now is a PC that can keep up with the frame rate. Always good to increase the number of people joining the game I reckon.

[Racer Y]

I can garantue that LFS will lose allot of potentional buyers if the team decided to make it wheel only. If it was wheel only, I wouldn't have bought S2, nor S1.

Yeah, You, me and about 3/4 of the people that play it.
Up until the day I stumbled across the demo, I thought only an IDIOT would
buy something as ridiculous as a wheel. You know, something only
a loser wannabe type could ever even want to own. LOL that was
about 2 1/2 years ago.... I've had this "goofy toy" for about 2 years now :)

THere really isn't enough people online at any given moment for anyone to be too concerned with what they play with.
Heck it's so bad now, I'd be happy to play with 3 other people in a 400 ping server, with them all using Key boards and being on dial up.


Off topic: Y'all think when the weather cools off more and rFactor loses it's "new" factor, things will get better?

[Vain]

1. Yes, the LFS community needs growth, restriction on input type restricts growth. Thus it's not an option.
It's that simple.
2. I must be more lucky than you, Racer Y. Just an hour ago I only needed 10 minutes to start a 5-driver race with my favorite car/track-combo.
And that's realy not "main time".
Anyway, the further LFS goes the more attention it gets. So when we have some cool effects here and some physics-tuning there we'll also get more reviews in the media and also more players. Oh yeah, and once in a while creating a "What is your opinion on LFS"-topic in some game-related forum is also good :) .

Vain

[Chaos]

Well I guess the "problem" now is, that there are not many reviews in magazines, web, tv, because S2 is still alpha... I think (hope) we will see more reviews and thus more players when S2 full comes...

And on topic: banning other devices is not the way to go, imo all other control methods are harder than the wheel so there is no point banning them...

[Ramses]

THere really isn't enough people online at any given moment for anyone to be too concerned with what they play with.
Heck it's so bad now, I'd be happy to play with 3 other people in a 400 ping server, with them all using Key boards and being on dial up.

OFFTOPIC: That S****.

Here in Europe it's much better. At night I can choose between around 10 servers with players and a ping below 60. Living in The Americas apperantly isn't fun when you want to play LFS. It IS an online game afterall :(

[Rebeldevil]

I use a gamepad. I can't afford a decent wheel and I'm not going to waste my money on some cheap piece of garbage. Besides, it doesn't make things any harder for you, just for me.

And I don't know what you're talking about. I'm Stateside and I don't have any problem finding a server with good ping (I consider a good ping less than 150 ms) They're out there. Just look.