S2 price

[evan55]

I went on XE.com to see how much Canadian an S2 license was and it was almost $60, is this right?...thats a lot of money..

[Micaoct]

It's actaully not that much considering how much support you get, all the great features...plus the devs really do deserve it. You get ALOT of enjoyment out of it and you can play it as much as you want. It's a worthy investment in my opinion. :thumb:

[Breizh]

Yes it's ~55CAD.
No it's not a lot.

[Blas89]

So ? hehehe I won my license :D it didnt cost me a cent:D

[keithano]

Cmon, I can just tell u , it worths every penny

[X-Ter]

Yeah, £24 is equal to 332 Sweden Kronor (SEK) which is at least 40% less than the price of any other game or simulation. Just compare ot the price of GTL or GTR2. And LFS is worth every penny :nod:

[Xalies]

I went on XE.com to see how much Canadian an S2 license was and it was almost $60, is this right?...thats a lot of money..

and also you will never "lose" this no mater what, ... it's not a cd that can get scratched or the cd key isnt printed on a manual that you can misplace and never find and it doesnt take forever to install

all you need to do is download it , unzip and unlock

[Hankstar]

It's about $60 Australian as well. Lots of new, high profile titles for consoles and PC start at $80 here and just go up.
It's pretty good value imho :up:

[Davo]

Yep, it's actually cheaper than most games over here.

[MAGGOT]

$60CAD isn't expensive for a game, it's average. And, LFS kicks the teeth out of any other game out there.

[deggis]

and also you will never "lose" this no mater what, ... it's not a cd that can get scratched or the cd key isnt printed on a manual that you can misplace and never find and it doesnt take forever to install

all you need to do is download it , unzip and unlock
Most people probably thinks that when they buy something they should get the product in a physical form, when you buy LFS you get it in a digital form :)

[squidhead]

its 24 pounds here and it's a bit more expensive then Russian Licensed game copies we find in shops, and a lot more expensive then Russian pirated CDs we find in underground passages...BUT...I have never seen a game that would still be interesting and challenging after 2 years...
all other games (including GTR2, GTL, Chronicles of Riddick and such) cot me half the price and were uninstalled in a matter of 2-3 weeks...
this one - wasnt

[dropin_biking]

I'm Canadian too. I payed $60 for Need For Speed Underground 2 for PC when it came out. The PS2 games at walmart are over $60. Xbox games hit almost $80. Most new PC games from big names cost upwards of $70 with taxes. And they are all the same, play it, beat it, get bored of it. But with LFS, which is cheaper, you get a game that you won't lose, won't get bored of (Comunity keeps growing) and a game that you will never beat (I'd like to see you get every car/track combo record and hold them)
~Bryan~

[Racer Y]

Hi.
You know, I was gonna post on that thread from the banned troll about this but the thread quickly devolved into nonsense and got locked.
WHen you look at getting the licenses for LFS all at once, then yeah it's
gonna be expensive. That's getting the licenses all at once. And to you UK guys that think that getting both licenses at once is still a bargain price
compared to boxed games, you pay too much for boxed games and should really revolt against your government for ridiculuos taxes and tarrifs :)
That's it! Dress like Indians, sneak into London's waterfront, raid the docked freighters and dump every video game title you see into the harbor!
(Hey it worked in Boston)

The cost of living in the UK is a lot higher than most other places and I'm sure that the costs for whatever you have over there is going to be adjusted accordingly. I bet if the devs did this game from like Nebraska, they could sell it for less, but not much though. And they gotta eat and pay bills in the UK.

When I got S-1 it was only for I think $20 usd and S-2 was like 22 or 24 dollars. When it's broken up like that, then, I really think LFS is about the best bargain you can get in puchasing a video game. but added together
it starts to sound pretty expensive.

I won't go into how much content you get with these licenses as most people seem to get stuck on the overall price.
You could tell them to get the licenses in installments, but apparently not many are wanting to do that. And that sucks. S-1 is better than what it was two years ago and should keep a bunch of people happy as it is.
But everyone wants to get what they perceive to be the complete package
and complains about the total cost of that.

I honestly think S-3 will not pick up very many new people for that very reason. because then your looking at even more money to be spent for the
first time buyer and again, I doubt they'll go for the installment plan.
And that's not just Americans not buying lfs s-3, that's everyone. Even UKers.

The exchange rate between the dollar and the pound has always been about 2 to 1 for as long as I can remember. it fluctuates some here & there, but not all that much. even so, the cost of goods coming into the US from the UK has always been on the expensive side ( I think they're still pissed by the Indian thing in Boston)
So if you're an American, comparing the price of LFS to other British imports, you come out ahead especially since we don't have to pay excise tax, import fees or heck, even sales tax.


LOL Those people that think LFS is expensive now don't know the half of it.
I know I spent close to $300 on lfs by way of wheel & computer upgrades.
But that's ok the entertainment value from just having S-1 alone and using a mouse surpassed that cost. And when I plunk down that 12 pounds for S-3, I'll still be happy knowing i "spent too much $$$ on a @#%!! video game". :thumb:

[S14 DRIFT]

best £24 you can spend

[joen]

[sort of in response to Racer Y]

You make some valid points, and I'm a bit worried as well that when S3 comes out, it's price will be too steep for new players. Not that I think it won't be worth it, quite the contrary.
I think that over time LFS has picked up a lot of new players that consider LFS as basically "just another game", and compare it to other mainstream games. They don't (instantly) realise that LFS is not comparable to mainstream games in many ways. Ofcourse on a quality level, but also on a pricing level. They are not (yet) aware of the philosophy behind LFS development, the history of it, it's plans for the future, and the fact that this is an indie game. They are different from people that already have experience with other true sims and their position in the games market as a niche product. This certainly goes for people who don't frequent the forums and judge the game just by the demo and not the additional benefits of things like LFSWorld and community based addons/projects.
This is shown by people constantly asking for "real cars", "real tracks", neon's on cars, nos, the list is endless. In other words, stuff that for the majority belongs in mainstream games. Or people telling to Scawen to "hurry up" because otherwise other games/sims could catch up and LFS will be behind. While the devs don't want to compete with others, they just want to do this their way.

Talking about that troll you mentioned, he's a perfect example of the type of player I'm talking about. He said something along the lines of "LFS never going to hit the big time and get big sales". The fact is, we (and the devs) know that it isn't going to compete with mainstream games from the big companies. Simply because the majority of gamers want quick easy arcade games where bling bling graphics are defining the standards. LFS is made for a relatively small userbase who want realism first and foremost.

I guess the people who really get into LFS are the ones who felt "a spark" when they played it for the first time. People who really fell in love with the game. These people will simply want to buy LFS because they see it's true quality. I know that was how I felt when I got into the demo. I just had to have it, I never questioned if the price was worth it because I knew it was great. I would have bought it if it was double the price.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I truly feel LFS is a bargain for the people who are meant to play it, if that makes any sense :D No other game has kept me interested for such a long time, no other game has given me this many hours of fun. I would have had to buy a multitude of games to give me the same amount of fun. It's value for money is just way higher.

I mean, a (somewhat) comparable game would be nKpro. It's €36,- it has a lot of playability, compatibility and usability issues, it's got much less content, the content is less diverse...how can LFS be expensive?

If you're going to compare, at least compare it with other products like flight simulators, they're more expensive than most games too.

Anyway, I'm not totally ontopic and this is not a sales pitch, it's what I truly think of it.

[NoQuarter]

Superbly put, joen!

[Cue-Ball]

Let's not forget that some racing sim companies are starting to move to the pay-as-you-go plan where you have a yearly fee. If/when this happens on a large scale LFS will look like even more of a bargain. Which is more expensive, 36 British Pounds for the all you can eat LFS buffet or 50 American Dollars per year for the iRacing happy meal?

Sure, some people may hesitate or even decide not to buy LFS based on its somewhat high initial cost, but those of us who have spent good money on wheels, pedals, computers, video cards, fancy screens, etc. will still realize that LFS is a bargain.

[tristancliffe]

I'd pay double for LFS without thinking, and it would still be the best value game I've ever played.

S1 - £24 ($48)
S2 - £48 ($96)
S3 - £72 ($144)

In fact, I'd probably pay as much as £100 to have S3 (in total, so £33 per stage), and still be happy with it.

But of course I say that with hindsight, knowing that LFS has kept me coming back for more for nearly four years. To a new demo user just looking to have a piss about with an F1 car, and not really caring about the development process or the real-time solutions to everything, it might appear to be expensive - in which case I suspect LFS isn't for them in the first place.

[DFS_MadFred]

....

Couldn't agree more. :thumb:

The player that is right for this game will just feel it. And if you've felt it, the price is just right, no, a bargain when you look back at it.

Best 36 Euros I've spent in a long time for the ammount of fun I've had so far, ....now if I could only get good at it... the damn flightsimmer in me still thinks in too many dimensions... Gotta keep them wheels on the deck! :D

[Doorman]

I just did an inventory of the collection of games bought over the years. Oddly enough they all seem to have cost about £30-£35. There is over a grands worth of games taking up shelf space having been played through once, then forgotten. Apart from Half Life, which I've played several times and CS (free), LFS has taken up almost all of my gaming. If the devs packed up and went home right now and never did another stroke of work on it, LFS would be the BEST value for money....EVAH!

[Blackout]

There are people from China playing LFS. Can you imagine how expensive it's for them? I remember one Chinese guy here had on his sign that S2 is worth of 200 something meals over there.

[The Moose]

I have to agree with Doorman....i have a huge stack of games sat on my shelf gathering dust, that (nearly)all cost £30 +

All thats on my hard drive is LFS, nKPro and LockOn, all of which cost around £25 and are independent projects for a niche market and all will probably be still on my hard drive in several years time as they are added to and expanded.
If i include the LockOn addons i've spent a total of £100 on software that has/will give years of entertainment.
In comparison to any other entertainment medium, those three products are providing the best value for my £ by a long shot.

£100 for thousands of hours of entertainment....you cant beat that for value:thumb:

[pb32000]

I'd pay double for LFS without thinking, and it would still be the best value game I've ever played.

S1 - £24 ($48)
S2 - £48 ($96)
S3 - £72 ($144)

In fact, I'd probably pay as much as £100 to have S3 (in total, so £33 per stage), and still be happy with it.

Which is true for some people, but not 95% of the consumer market.
The way I see it, £12 every few years is GREAT value for this sim, but tbh when S3 is released, people will think twice about spending £36 on a PC sim. (Bearing in mind other sims are/will be availble for maybe around £25 on amazon etc).

[JamesK]

The exchange rate between the dollar and the pound has always been about 2 to 1 for as long as I can remember.Then you don't remember for long ... it only hit about $2 o £1 in January, not long ago it was $1.40 to £1. Sorry, but saying its expensive because of the exchange rate won't wash when console games cost $60 there anyway!

[AndroidXP]

The way I see it, £12 every few years is GREAT value for this sim, but tbh when S3 is released, people will think twice about spending £36 on a PC sim.I really hope Scawen finds a way to make S1/S2 licenses not completely useless by the time S3 comes around (like S1 is now).

[joen]

Which is true for some people, but not 95% of the consumer market.

Exactly one of the points I was trying to make clear :) LFS' potential userbase is not 100% of the games market. It appeals to a specific group in that market.

[hrtburnout]

When most popular mainstream games come out here, they start with a price of just a little under €70. I'm talking about games like Fifa, or the Need for Speed series. Two years of Fifa games = €120 to €140, depends on the shop. Two years of LFS : €36. And i only have to pay another €18 to get the latest version, instead of another €60/70.

LFS = Cheap

[Foropsico]

When most popular mainstream games come out here, they start with a price of just a little under €70. I'm talking about games like Fifa, or the Need for Speed series. Two years of Fifa games = €120 to €140, depends on the shop. Two years of LFS : €36. And i only have to pay another €18 to get the latest version, instead of another €60/70.

LFS = Cheap
But, man, S2 is not a complete game as each NFS series.
Maybe LFS is only for a little comunity which could buy a wheel and love sims very much. A comunity that is more worry about physics than other features.

[hrtburnout]

Could buy a wheel. Pfffft. You can buy it, you just need to learn how to spend money right ;)

[joen]

But, man, S2 is not a complete game as each NFS series.
You're now comparing S2 with a complete series of a game?
And considering an S2 license entitles one to the full product why wouldn't it be complete?


Maybe LFS is only for a little comunity which could buy a wheel and love sims very much. A comunity that is more worry about physics than other features.
It's not the only important aspect but it is the most important aspect. Which seems obvious to me, considering it aims to be a simulation and not a game.

It's comparable to buying a car. If you had to choose, would you buy a crappy car with all sorts of ricer bodykits, spoilers, 10000 watt speakers, 30 inch rims and a movie theatre inside, or would you buy a quality car with superb handling and clever engineering which is a blast to drive?

Price is not important, it's relative. Value for money should be the true measurement.

[Rooble]

But, man, S2 is not a complete game as each NFS series.
Maybe LFS is only for a little comunity which could buy a wheel and love sims very much. A comunity that is more worry about physics than other features.

How can you say S2 is not a complete game with a demo licence? As for NFS well perhaps if you played the earlier games you'll know they are boring too.

Great you can drive a Ferrari and get chased by crappy AI police but wheres the fun in that...:shrug:

[Foropsico]

How can you say S2 is not a complete game with a demo licence? As for NFS well perhaps if you played the earlier games you'll know they are boring too.


All the time this type of post attacking demo racers. S2 is not a finished game by definition. I have demo licence, so what? S2 is demo with more cars and tracks, that i can know without having S2. This answer are because i am not saying, buy LFS is the better game never exist, i could pay a millon dolars for it. Grow up.

[squidhead]

But, man, S2 is not a complete game as each NFS series.


I almost pissed my pants...
do you consider a game complete when it can be passed in 6 hours and some cars are not in career mode , and not moddable, and are only available in ugly bodykits for one singleplayer race of developers choice, which promised us copchases, and doesn allow to be the cop and bust ugly bodykitted streetracers, and furthermore doesnt allow us to take part in custom copchases but only in predefined car of their choice? (NFS:Carbon)

I state that a complete game is where what developers promised - is what you get...
by my measures LFS alpha is more of a complete product then NFS Full after some patches...

[wheel4hummer]

S2 is demo with more cars and tracks

With auto-skin downloading, and race results, etc. :nod:

[Davo]

Nice copycat, but mine are real :p

[Racer Y]

Then you don't remember for long ... it only hit about $2 o £1 in January, not long ago it was $1.40 to £1. Sorry, but saying its expensive because of the exchange rate won't wash when console games cost $60 there anyway!


No. it just seems that every time I have bothered to look at the exchange rates for some reason, it always seems to be at about 2 to 1 i know it changes a bit, but i dunno just dumb luck on my part that it's 2 to 1 when I look it up. Like 4 years from now, I'll need to know the rates and it will be about 2 to 1. 15 years ago(?) I looked it up and it was 2 to 1. When I was in the 4th grade the subject came up for some reason and the teacher said.... 2 to 1. now in between all those times the rates can be whatever, the next time I'll need it, it'll be 2 to 1. Does that make sense?

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

I don't see how the total cost is even relevant. I'm certain by that time, that the individual licenses will be supported through easier means than they are now. Scawen already moved that direction with slightly better S1 support. It'll just be like any other "series", but since the feature set will be complete at that point it's 3 equally finished stages with different content. It shouldn't be too hard to allow only licensed cars on licsensed tracks, even if others are driving cars that you didn't license but happen to be on a track that you did (S1 drivers could be on the track in S1 cars, but S2/3 cars could still be on the track - just not driven by the S1 holder).

In the end, you need to compare entire series' with the total cost of LFS and then it's in perspective.

[Cue-Ball]

With auto-skin downloading, and race results, etc. :nod:And all the other features of lfsworld like fuel usage, fastest laps, hotlap charts, most used cars and tracks, etc.

Nice copycat, but mine are real :pReal or fake...who cares? :D

[Zachary Zoomy]

I'd pay double for LFS without thinking, and it would still be the best value game I've ever played.

S1 - £24 ($48)
S2 - £48 ($96)
S3 - £72 ($144)

In fact, I'd probably pay as much as £100 to have S3 (in total, so £33 per stage), and still be happy with it.

But of course I say that with hindsight, knowing that LFS has kept me coming back for more for nearly four years. To a new demo user just looking to have a piss about with an F1 car, and not really caring about the development process or the real-time solutions to everything, it might appear to be expensive - in which case I suspect LFS isn't for them in the first place.
$144 for S3?!!?!?!

[keiran]

$144 for S3?!!?!?!

That's how much Tristan says he would pay for S3, not how much it's actually going to cost. Most likely it will just be another £12.

I'd easily have paid more for LFS, I've only bought two other racing games since and LFS is the only one that keeps me coming back.

[KMSpeed]

Isn't this getting a little (or A LOT) tiresome? :shrug:

1. People who are still in demo asking for more content cause they are bored of the same cars/tracks all the time and

2. People who OWN a PC and sometimes even a console, complaining that they cannot afford bying LFS.

The short answer to 1 is Buy S2, and the answer to 2 is that you are either lying or you have different priorities in your life so stop whining.

It's really really hard to convince someone that if you have a PC and an internet connection at your disposal you cannot also get 36 euros or whatever your currency is to buy LFS. :nod:

[undertech]

Very refreshing - it was about time someone posted this. Don't whine about luxuries you can't afford because you won't spend the effort to save towards it.

[S14 DRIFT]

Isn't this getting a little (or A LOT) tiresome? :shrug:

1. People who are still in demo asking for more content cause they are bored of the same cars/tracks all the time and

2. People who OWN a PC and sometimes even a console, complaining that they cannot afford bying LFS.

The short answer to 1 is Buy S2, and the answer to 2 is that you are either lying or you have different priorities in your life so stop whining.

It's really really hard to convince someone that if you have a PC and an internet connection at your disposal you cannot also get 36 euros or whatever your currency is to buy LFS. :nod:

Yeah thats a all too true point. :x

[mrodgers]

It's really really hard to convince someone that if you have a PC and an internet connection at your disposal you cannot also get 36 euros or whatever your currency is to buy LFS. :nod:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. This is an invalid arguement. You can get free internet (at least you can here in the US) and the PC is provided as a hand-me-down from Aunt Mae. There you go. Can't afford to pay for S2 because of no money and the arguement of PC and internet doesn't stick because they were given for free....

[spankmeyer]

You can get free internet (at least you can here in the US) and the PC is provided as a hand-me-down from Aunt Mae. There you go.

So in your scenario a person has been fortunate enough to get a PC and internet connection for free and STILL says the license is too expensive? :confused:

[joen]

Anyway, no matter if someone paid for their PC and connection or not, it's not like buying a car or a house or anything. I do understand it's harder to get the money together for some, but that's just the way it is. Exchange rates and different economic situations are responsible for that, and there's nothing we or the devs can do anything about.
What bothers me is that some people complain they're poor or that LFS is too expensive, but when you get into a discussion about it often is the case that they don't do crap to get themselves in the position to buy it. Get a job, a paperround, wash cars, do chores, save up their allowance, don't buy that hamburger, etc.
If you aren't able to do that or really can't afford it, well tough shit really. That's the way the world works. I can't afford everything I want either. Some things I will never be able to afford, and for some things I set money aside.

[jtr99]

Nice copycat, but mine are real :p

Wow. Nice jugs, Davo, I always assumed you were a guy.

[Foropsico]

Exchange rates and different economic situations are responsible for that, and there's nothing we or the devs can do anything about.
Thats true, but you do not know if the game costs are so hi that devs cant lower the price. I think that the question is: LFS is a game for all the game comunity, or is just for sim racing fans with wheel who would pay good money for this game.

What bothers me is that some people complain they're poor or that LFS is too expensive, but when you get into a discussion about it often is the case that they don't do crap to get themselves in the position to buy it. Get a job, a paperround, wash cars, do chores, save up their allowance, don't buy that hamburger, etc.
If you aren't able to do that or really can't afford it, well tough shit really. That's the way the world works. I can't afford everything I want either. Some things I will never be able to afford, and for some things I set money aside.
Maybe some people dont think that LFS is so important to get a job.
Any way, not many people used to buy software, hardware is necesary, software is crackeable. So, the price for software must be low.

[undertech]

Going back to the original post, he said that $60CDN is a lot of money.

A lot of money, for what? A piece of gum? Cleanly he doesn't think it is worth it. And that is fine. But it is pointless to discuss it. Well, maybe there would be a discussion if the price suddenly doubled one day, or people are forced to subscribe.
As far as I can tell, you can argue about it with about as much result as people arguing about drifting.

I really do think that a lot less people would balk at the price if LFS was sold in a shiny box, published by EA, and had half the content.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm already thoroughly enjoying the demo content, and any additional content provided by the cost of the S2 license would be icing on the cake. If I tired of the demo stuff already (about 2 weeks into it so far) I wouldn't expect S2 to make it any better, at least not for very long and certainly not worth paying $60 for. But no, the demo has me convinced that S2 is certainly worth it. For me.

[joen]

Thats true, but you do not know if the game costs are so hi that devs cant lower the price. I think that the question is: LFS is a game for all the game comunity, or is just for sim racing fans with wheel who would pay good money for this game.

Once again, it's not high compared to other games, especially not when compared to for instance a flight simulator. Besides, this is an indie game and the dev's source of income. Why would they need to lower the price? If they lower the price to for instance 20 pounds for S2, people would still complain.
LFS is years worth of work and dedication by the devs, and they want a fair price for their product.

And IT IS a fair price. You seem to think that the devs are getting ridiculously rich from LFS or something. If they wanted to make a lot of money to would work at a big software company like they used to do (well Scawen and Eric did).

LFS is aimed at sim racing fans, and not the mainstream market like I have tried to explain numerous times. And concerning the price, I don't know how much for instance X-Box games cost in Spain, but over here the prices are ridiculous. And those games are made by big companies with a market segment much much higher than LFS'.


Maybe some people dont think that LFS is so important to get a job.
Exactly one of my points. It's fine if you don't want to get a job to buy LFS, I have no problem with that. BUT then don't come complaining here about how you can't afford it and call it expensive! Get off your lazy ass or don't complain! Everything in life costs money and few of us are born rich. Besides, getting a job brings certain benefits anyway, not just being able to buy LFS.

Everything you want to have requires a certain investment, you have to ask yourself: do I want this enough to justify the money or effort I would have to spend on it? If one is not prepared to for instance get a job or do chores to get LFS, he or she simply doesn't want it enough. And that's fine, but I get sick of people putting the source of the "problem" with the product's price and not with their own lazy asses.


Any way, not many people used to buy software, hardware is necesary, software is crackeable. So, the price for software must be low.Ridiculous statement.
So, because I can steal a car, car prices must be low? :pillepall:

[Breizh]

LFS is for everyone with a mouse and keyboard, gamepad or wheels and/or pedals.

[undertech]

Any way, not many people used to buy software, hardware is necesary, software is crackeable. So, the price for software must be low.

The price is not set by thieves. It is set according to the projected market and required revenue, amongst other things. Even if LFS cost only $1, do you think enough people would buy it to support the developers? I don't think so. My mother (nor yours I bet) would not purchase LFS simply because she is not in the market. And the market for driving sims (especially without real cars/tracks/bling) is not that large. So, the price must be set carefully.

Do the math:
If the price is $1 and you sell 100,000 copies, you make $1*100,000 = $100,000
If the price is $50 and you sell 10,000 copies, you make $50*10,000 = $500,000

Nobody except for the devs knows how many S2 licenses have been sold or will be sold in the future. I am quite certain that the number is nowhere near what World of Warcraft sells (per months even) :P

[duke_toaster]

Do the math:
If the price is $1 and you sell 100,000 copies, you make $1*100,000 = $100,000
If the price is $50 and you sell 10,000 copies, you make $50*10,000 = $500,000

Nobody except for the devs knows how many S2 licenses have been sold or will be sold in the future. I am quite certain that the number is nowhere near what World of Warcraft sells (per months even) :P

It's on LFSW.

[undertech]

Hmm, I've tried looking all over LFSW but I could not find any total S2 #s, only those currently online. Maybe it's because I'm still demo?

[Jakg]

It's on LFSW.
no its not, its a stat the devs want to keep to themselves, remember Phlos raping 12 GB of bandwidth?

[keiran]

Scawen told us quite a while back their were something like 30 000 S2 licensed users if I remember correctly? If that's right then I'd imagine it's gone up a fair bit since then.

[Riders Motion]

56,68$ and no regret, expect that I can't play :(

[mrodgers]

So in your scenario a person has been fortunate enough to get a PC and internet connection for free and STILL says the license is too expensive? :confused:
I was only commenting on the common arguement that we see often that if you can afford a PC and internet connection, then you should be able to afford to pay for an LFS license. In no way do I argue that LFS is or is not expensive with what I wrote. Just wanted to state that it is very possible to have no money, yet still have a PC and internet.

I've had 8 PC's since 1995 and I've been on the internet since then. I've paid for only my first PC in 1995 and my current one last year. I've never paid for internet access since going online in 1996 until a few years ago when I moved away from the free access being a long distance phone call. I recently have seen that the free internet now has a local number for me, so I'm curious about it. But I do doubt I would be able to play LFS on it. My current 56k has proved flawless over the last 2 years I've been with LFS (except for heavily server mod usage as in the Caribbean Cruise servers). I'm even hesitant to eventually go broadband as I time out less than I see others time out on the servers (limiting to pretty much 15 others that is, which isn't hard in the US.)

[JamesK]

No. it just seems that every time I have bothered to look at the exchange rates for some reason, it always seems to be at about 2 to 1 i know it changes a bit, but i dunno just dumb luck on my part that it's 2 to 1 when I look it up. Like 4 years from now, I'll need to know the rates and it will be about 2 to 1. 15 years ago(?) I looked it up and it was 2 to 1. When I was in the 4th grade the subject came up for some reason and the teacher said.... 2 to 1. now in between all those times the rates can be whatever, the next time I'll need it, it'll be 2 to 1. Does that make sense?I import car parts from the US on a regular basis, its hit 2 to 1 before, but not for a good while (like before Clinton).

[Linsen]

LFS is remarkable value for the money, not doubt about that. Also each stage gets cheaper, because the price for S2 and S3 was set when S1 came out. So, compared to the costs of living, S2 was already cheaper than S1. S3 is probably at least 3 years away (I consider this a rather optimistic estimate). So by that time, costs of living will have gone up even more, but S3 will still be 12 gbp :tilt:.