Momo Red, Black or DFP? [Archive]

Rtsbasic

1st October 2005, 16:05

I know this is a topic that has been gone over and over, but if you had a choice of a Momo red, black or DFP wheel, which one would you pick? Its to replace my MS Sidewinder non-FF. I've read a lot about the pedals failing on all of them, which is a pain because my sidewinder ones have never given me a problem.

Overall I think the momo red looks really nice and solid, but I really like the sound of 900 degrees rotation, and having a sequential shifter. So I'm really torn.

Thanks.

Revzalot

1st October 2005, 16:10

I'm happy with my DFP due to the 900* and tons of useable buttons on the wheel. I don't need to reach the keyboard while I'm racing. The DFP rocks!

Hummer

1st October 2005, 16:14

I vote for MOMO Red

inCogNito

1st October 2005, 16:22

i would take the red momo.

then sell it on ebay for 200€, buy a new DFP for 80€ and spend the 120€ on something else :)

Rtsbasic

1st October 2005, 16:24

Thanks for the replies so far..leaning towards the DFP I think..which wheel would be more reliable out of the mono red or DFP? I race daily and my driving isn't brilliant so it'll get lots of abuse.

inCogNito

1st October 2005, 16:24

Regarding the DFP and its huge rotation: Presumably there's some hardware stop or something that stops the wheel at 900 degrees, but when you select a lower range (say, 720, 270, 540), what is it that stops the wheel from turning further? Is it just the motor?

There is a really strong feedback that stops you. And by really strong i mean really strong ;)

Gabkicks

1st October 2005, 18:06

driving force pro pwns all untill that $700 speed 7 wheel comes out.

Ryanry64

1st October 2005, 18:29

Just recently swapped from a black momo to a DFP, prefer the DFP I think.

Black momo has served me well though, just is very bulky compared to the DFP, has fewer buttons.. Nice wheel shape though

Rtsbasic

1st October 2005, 18:39

DFP it is. Helps that its cheaper than the Momo red, and I don't like the sound of the black one.

Thanks for your help :)

Rtsbasic

7th October 2005, 10:41

My DFP turned up in the mail today :) Nice unit, although its very very different to drive than my old non-FF sidewinder.

Can anyone recommend some good settings for the forcefeedback stuff? I've been having a play with them but can't get it feeling nice without getting very twitchy.

OPK

7th October 2005, 10:47

Don´t choose the 900° mode, you will be too slow ;)

Seperate pedals on, Force effects on and 100%, everything else off in the controller setting by Logitech.

ColeusRattus

7th October 2005, 10:55

Don´t choose the 900° mode, you will be too slow ;)

Seperate pedals on, Force effects on and 100%, everything else off in the controller setting by Logitech.

Yupp... 720° are sufficient, as this is how far the wheels turn ingame ;)

Rtsbasic

7th October 2005, 11:24

ColeusRattus

7th October 2005, 11:48

OK I was just using 540, I'll try 720 now.

What settings ingame should I use? In the logitech panel I've turned everything to 0 except effects which is on 100%, seperate pedals enabled (I never knew that could make so much difference to FWD's..).

Exactly my settings.

And ingame in the steering settings, there is something like "wheel compensation" (Dunno for sure, as I don'thave it installed at work...) you have to set to 1. This way, the wheel ingame will always be synchronous to your dfp. The FF-"barrier" still is at 720 though, but I don't notice that while racing, as I rarely use full lock. (and if, theres no prob with "overlocking" a few degrees)

Rtsbasic

7th October 2005, 12:01

OK Thanks guys, starting to get the hang of it a bit now :) What do you use for FF strength ingame?

Also, is there a way to use the shift paddles and the shift stick? So I can use either pending on if I'm on a corner or straight bit.

Mogar

13th February 2006, 00:03

Now it's me that am thinking about a new wheel.

I had 2 MS ffb wheels, but the first stopped working due to an electronics fault (actually it works for some minutes, than the communication with the pc starts to fail, until it simply acts as disconnected), and the second has already got worn.

Now I'm thinking on buying a DFP or a black Momo.

One thing that I don't like about the MS wheels is that the pedal response is a bit slow (like the communication rate is not enough). And for me, I give 90% of importance to precision of the wheel and pedals.

DFP has lots of buttons and 900 degrees rotation (that may be useful for something someday), but the black momo is highly rated for it's precision (the red momo as some says is the king, but pretty impossible to buy one from here).

So, how DFP compares with black Momo regarding precision and fast responses ? And do DFP have any issue with other simulators for PC (since I'm not willing to buy a wheel just for LFS) ?

Gabkicks

13th February 2006, 01:35

many of your questions have been answered many times before.:scratchch

The wheel is actually more precise than the momo and its worked well with all the games i've tried. Live For speed, GPL, GTL, GTR, RBR, Racer... NFS, :shrug:

deggis

13th February 2006, 04:24

DFP works just as black MOMO works. If it doesn't work in some non-sim game which has bad overall wheel support that kind of game probably sucks anyway. :)

Compared to black MOMO, DFP looks worse (the stupid GT4 logo?) and the wheel is slightly smaller. Shift paddles are also crappy (too small) in DFP. At least so they say. And the annoying "SCREEEEEECH" sound which FF motor produces when fastly steering is also a bit louder but it's annoying in black MOMO too. :) You just need to think do you want 900-degree steering.

Mogar

13th February 2006, 15:28

well, I actually don't care much about the 900º rotation, but the DFP have more buttons than the Momo black, that looks interesting.

but I would trade the extra buttons and 900º rotation easily for more precision and faster controller response, as well a better feedback. IMO the MS ff wheel lacks a faster response and precision on the pedals, but the wheel itself has a very good precision and fast answers.

about the noises, every FF wheel make noises, so I'm quite used to it.

Bramski

13th February 2006, 15:46

I have a dfp and I couldn't really pick out any faults in it other than the pedals are a bit sucky but all the other entry level setups have crap pedals too so it's not on it's own. I thought the shifter buttons would be too small and awkward at first, but to be honest I rarely find myself in a jam when reaching for the gears as most of the driving in games like LFS and rF etc is precision driving so you're already lined up and in gear for a clean entry anyways.

I sometimes struggle with the shifters when trying to drift or Rally cross in LFS sometimes but you should be using the gearstick for that type of driving anyway so it's not really an issue.

Another thing with the DFP is the build quality, it looks a bit toyish on the surface but it's supposedly quite solid with metal bearing and fittings inside similar to the momo red, the black momo has plastic fittings and can often lead to play in the wheel, dead spots and crunching noises after it's seen a bit of use.

wes.brook

13th February 2006, 17:02

My £0.02 :)

I have not tried the DFP or MOMO Red myself, but I've recently purchased a MOMO Racing (Black) and I am very impressed. I moved from the Formula Force GP and there is a big difference is quality.

FFB and general control of the MOMO Racing is excellent. 6 buttons I find are enough, no problems there. Stick shift and paddles are great :thumb:

Well designed and feels great; recommended.

deggis

13th February 2006, 22:18

The shift stick is actually pretty good after you get used to the weird placing. Altough it feels like a toy. I use the stick in Richard Burns Rally, altough the cars simulated in RBR has shift flaps so it's kinda stupid but gives more immersion. :) The biggest problem with the stick is that hands have a lot more to do... the stick felt actually so good in RBR that didn't want to put that knob to my FFShifter (which is currently in the closet, got to find a another knob).

Mogar

15th February 2006, 00:26

I've said this before but...

I got the DFP because the Momo didn't have enough buttons. I use 400 degrees of rotation and that's quite nice to have, but I wish the stupid shift paddles didn't suck so much. The other day I downshifted twice from 6th gear in the MRT and found myself in 1st. I managed to do the same thing on the same corner a few laps later.

The wheel is sort-of notchy-feeling, but I imagine all wheels at this price are much the same. Other than that (and the stupid paddles) I don't have any complaints about it.

That happenes a lot with my MS wheel, the way that I prevented it was pressing the paddle exactly in the middle. When it started to give too much problems, I changed the switch (could find one exactly like the original as replacement on a electronics store).

How are the possible rotation configurations for DFP ? Can I use 240 degrees ? It look like pretty dumb using lower rotation, but I believe that driving the FO8 with 900 degrees of rotation, even with wheel turn compensation in 1.0, is probably impossible.

Hyperactive

15th February 2006, 01:22

I would like to hear some thoughts from people who have changed from Microsoft wheel (FF or non FF) to a logitech wheel since I'm thinking about updating to FF era :) The wiring seems to be the same in MS pedals and in Logitech pedals so it might be possible to avoid those pedal troubles and use my old MS pedals...? (I can change the pots in my pedals to the logitech ones, if needed)

deggis

15th February 2006, 02:19

sgt.flippy

15th February 2006, 20:43

I use the DFP on full 900° and in contrary to what someone said before, it doesn't make me slower. It's just you have get the hang of it. I do have a question tho. Someone said when you use a non 900° mode, you get a hard force feedback to stop you from turning further. On my wheel that only happens if it's on 200° (I get the "soft" stop) but in any other mode, I just feel a little nudge, and I can steer over the limit I set. Is this my wheel, or is it normal? I'm not really using other modes, but I would like to know this.

SatCP

7th March 2006, 07:41

That's normal. The 'hard lock' is only available in 200 degrees mode. It's the one you can hear clicking loudly when switching between 200 degrees and 200+ degrees. It's not a force feedback effect though, it's a hardware stop that has only 2 positions: 200 degrees lock, 900 degrees lock.

For any other setting, the steering wheel will use it's force feedback to simulate the turning ends. So yes, you can easily turn beyond these limits since the power of the force feedback is limited, but turning further doesn't affect your in-game turning circle. It would have been nice if they'd allowed hard locks in a lot more positions, but that would probably have made the wheel more expensive. Money they better use for a better set of pedals :)

Btw, you use the full 900° rotation mode. That's a bit pointless as it makes you have to steer a lot more than the cars do in reality. Streetcars (also the ones in LFS) have a full turning circle of 720°, racing cars (like the GTR class in LFS) 540° and open wheel racers even less (I believe 270°, but I'm not sure - I never drive these cars).

nmanley

7th March 2006, 12:21

I have both the DFP and the Momo Red. There are things I like about both, Buttons on DFP and overall feel and the peddles of the Red. I use the Red only in online races as I'm partial to paddle shifting and Red is way better there. The wheel shape and feel is nicer on the Red also. In my opinion, anyone that uses over 360 deg of rotation is just over working their shoulders and arms on most cars in LFS.
Yes, there is a Force motor stop on the DFP that is very noticable.

Zero7

7th March 2006, 14:08

Gabkicks

7th March 2006, 14:30

just get the dfp. :p. its much more fun and immersive to have to steer as much as you should have to. like with the GTRs i use 540 degrees lock so its a more realistic experience than 200 or 270

deggis

7th March 2006, 16:09

I'm toying with the idea of getting a wheel and like many people am tied between getting the DFP or Momo. However it seems that most people still favour the DFP over the Momo, but it also seems that some people don't use all the buttons on the DFP.

So I'm wondering is it really worth getting the DFP and go for the Momo with (arguably) a better grip and pedals and a better looking gear stick (IMO). The 900 degrees turning on the DFP sounds attractive, but again not many actually use it. Oh, decisions, decisions decisions!!!
Throw a coin. :)

just get the dfp. :p. its much more fun and immersive to have to steer as much as you should have to. like with the GTRs i use 540 degrees lock so its a more realistic experience than 200 or 270
Yeah, I keep asking why would I use my FFShifter because I'm definately not faster with it. The ideal situation would be that everyone had 720 degree wheel, shifter and clutch. Some certain aspects in sims can't progress (like clutch emulation) before that happens.

Vain

7th March 2006, 16:15

Yeah, I keep asking why would I use my FFShifter because I'm definately not faster with it.I use an FFShifter. Even in event-races. Perhaps I could be faster without, and perhaps I'd have less stress if the fifth gear didn't like to pop out because the FFmotor gets too warm after an hour, but I like the fact that I need to place my shifts right. I need to shift after a corner because I have to leave the steering wheel to one hand for a considerable amount of time. I like the fact that I sometimes do a bad shift and lose time because I didn't pay enough attention (...and even lose some hp because of engine damage, if I'm unlucky).

It's all about immersion.
(please read that twice, once for FFShifters, once for wheels)

Vain

Zero7

7th March 2006, 16:21

just get the dfp. :p. its much more fun and immersive to have to steer as much as you should have to. like with the GTRs i use 540 degrees lock so its a more realistic experience than 200 or 270

Yeah, I am leaning more towards the DFP. Just researching the intarweb thingy :)

Throw a coin. :)

Do you know what, why not, I might just give that a go ;)