STCC boring for new fast drivers... [Archive]

Chaos

29th January 2007, 21:29

Pls guys do something about this... If a fast racer with little free time for LFS gets into STCC there is no motivation for him... I tried today... Got on STCC1a server, finished 2nd on the first race (this was a nice race btw, enjoyed it ;)) but from there on it was just boring... for fast guys like me, it's no problem after a few "learning" laps to do laps almost 1s faster than the rest of the field (meeting someone equally fast is just a big luck)... So when I want to have nice races, i would have to start from the end of the field, because hotlapping from 1st on the grid to the finish is no fun... and how else should i get points to advance to better licenses than by driving fast / winning? With just a few hours of LFS per week, this would be a very long boring run :shrug:

marzman

29th January 2007, 21:53

Chaos

29th January 2007, 22:03

i don't know, but i guess that getting at least the golden license (for the XRT) takes a lot of races...

AndroidXP

29th January 2007, 22:25

Meh, it doesn't take that long. A rough estimate of LFSW data shows I needed 49 races to get silver, which would already put you into better competition. Then 109 more races to finally reach platinum. :D

Just put in a marathon weekend, you should be able to easily get silver then. IIRC silver itself didn't last too long either and was rather quickly converted to gold. THAT however, stayed for quite a while.

SamH

29th January 2007, 22:38

The system is as it is because that's how it was designed. People who are fast climb onto the next server faster than those who are midfield, and they progress faster than those who are backmarker. I don't see any reason to change the way things work. It's worked perfectly well up until now.

If driving on your own at the front of the pack is boring, then perhaps you should do what many others do.. join the race at the back. There's a window of opportunity at the end of a race to change your racing name, which will place you at the back of the grid (that's one way.. there are others) and work your way through the field.

ZORER

29th January 2007, 22:58

what will happen when everybody reaches to the maximum licenses? any plans?

SamH

29th January 2007, 23:00

what will happen when everybody reaches to the maximum licenses? any plans?
Maybe? ;)

Greboth

29th January 2007, 23:16

Im not fast, like alien fast but in about 1 and a half hours yesterday i got 70% of the way to a silver licence. So if your that quick, as long as you win the race, set fastest lap etc then you should soon get off the new and bronze servers.

XenoWolf

30th January 2007, 05:11

marzman

30th January 2007, 07:46

I'm having a problem where I simply can't gain any points because there is never enough people on the server...

I finally, after much aggrivation won my first UF1 race the other day (not a big fan of the UF1..), and with only a handful of people on I gained a whopping 2%. I got my Bronze back when it was still XFG/XRG and there were plenty of people on. Now everyone is on Silver/Gold, and I'm stuck driving a car I hate (very) slowly clawing my way to Silver. Bleh.
I never have that kind of problems, but i think most racers are Europeans and are a sleep when you want to race. It seems a lot of silver racers still drive the first server (sometimes i even see STCC racers on it).

al heeley

30th January 2007, 07:50

I'm very slowly working my way thru silver but very often I go back on the bronze servers to race the XFG again as its fun. Not bothered about lack of points, just enjoying the racing. It's not about points for me, it's about the racing. Don't forget that!

frokki

30th January 2007, 08:53

what will happen when everybody reaches to the maximum licenses? any plans?i'd like to see all the points moved to /dev/null. :x

marzman

30th January 2007, 09:12

i'd like to see all the points moved to /dev/null. :x
Or it just stops then (and something new will come :) )

Worm

30th January 2007, 10:39

At the beginning, i think its ok to need silver license to play on the medium server. I totally agree. it isnt take a long time to have silver license.. and gold. If you are fast, its ok. But ...
To have platinum license, its take a very long time.... and sometimes i would like to play on platinum server with fast and fair racer but i cant :(
And i dont play only on STCC server so my license dont progress a lot :x
But anyway, that s the game ! And althoug its very boring i respect this.

garph

30th January 2007, 10:47

If it was about racing you wouldn't have a problem with starting from the back and fighting through the pack, with the extra speed you say you have that would be a lot of fun.

But it will still take you time to get to the silver/gold server which is obviously where you think you should be, there is no preferential treatment, you have to put in some work like everyone else.

I dunno why Becky left the forums (well I do kinda understand), but I'm pretty sure it was stuff like this. You've been given something, be grateful you have it even if you think you should be higher than you are.

Viper93

30th January 2007, 11:01

I guess if your bored in the bronze server and winning all the races within a day or two you will be into the silver/gold server where the racing is much better... and tougher. Follow the system and you will eventually find a challenge, the system isn't boring. It may be that your pace was just quicker than everyone elses on the bronze server. That will change though.

Chaos

30th January 2007, 11:24

hmm, nice suggestions, but there is one flaw... i really don't want to waste my racing time with x hrs of boring races just to get the golden license to drive the XRT... the maximum time i have for LFS in one week is about 6 hours... and as i participate in two leagues that leaves about 1 to 2 hours free, now count in some practice for the leagues and... i'm glad if i could get 45min for STCC... the only thing is that i want to drive the XRT, because i love this car... now to get there i have to get through to golden license, which in my case would take a month, maybe two... they say STCC is for professional racers, i consider myself pro (ask anyone who raced against me and see my lfsw stats, finished races and how many i finished on top 3 places), but i really don't want to waste my precious LFS time on racing boring fwd in front of the pack... what tears my heart apart is that i see a server with the TBO class and I can't race there :shrug:

Viper93

30th January 2007, 11:35

Well there is nothing anyone can do for you really then. Sorry =( You have to compete in the system like everyone else.

Chaos

30th January 2007, 11:44

which is what i would love to do, but don't have the time for it... so thank you for frustrating me seeing the TBO server but not being able to race there...:ashamed:

Bean0

30th January 2007, 11:46

Didn't the system get changed to give silver licensed racers the XRT/RB4 only, with the FXO available after attaining gold?

keiran

30th January 2007, 11:53

I don't consider myself `pro` but I do think I'm faster than the average driver and tbh didn't take me long to work my way to silver and now gold. I really can't understand your point, spectate till the race restarts and join at the back of the pack... Thats what I do if I'm running away with races and can make for some great racing.

The STCC doesn't have to make you a challenge, you can make it yourself ;)

Viper93

30th January 2007, 11:56

Didn't the system get changed to give silver licensed racers the XRT/RB4 only, with the FXO available after attaining gold?

Yes

Chaos

30th January 2007, 12:06

oh, i downloaded the "starter pack" and it said i need gold... if silver is enough for the XRT, then i just might give it a go...

Viper93

30th January 2007, 12:11

Yes that was changed last week =) It's worth a shot. Some of the best pick-up races can be found on the silver server =)

SamH

30th January 2007, 12:14

The STCC doesn't have to make you a challenge, you can make it yourself ;)
In a nutshell! :thumb:

The TBO servers can be regarded as Private servers, because to all intents and purposes they are. But instead of needing to be in the team or the league in order to get inside, you just need to prove yourself on the track. But you do have to do at LEAST that.

The licence page needed updating to reflect the changes in servers and car, but it's fixed now.

al heeley

30th January 2007, 12:51

there are plenty of LFS servers available that let you race the XRT. Your argument is nonsense, it has nothing to do with STCC. You may as well complain abaout any server choosing to run BF1 on Ky Oval or UF1's round As Cadet. Just choose one of the other servers to do your driving.:scratchch

BBO@BSR

30th January 2007, 13:04

there are plenty of LFS servers available that let you race the XRT. Your argument is nonsense, ...

Totally agree.
I also have not much time lately but it took me 38 races and 2 evenings to get my silver and around 53 races and 7 evenings to reach the gold status.

@Chaos
If you say you don't have time for it, then you can't race.
It's as simple as that.
but I would say if you are such a fast driver,
I'm sure you'll do it (reach the status you want) much quicker then the average guys.

Chaos

30th January 2007, 13:24

well since the system changed than i'll get over the XFG... i was "complaining" because the sight of racing the FXO was "scaring" me (fwd - power on bad wheels ;) )...

BBO> i didn't say i did not have time to race, what i said is that i don't want to waste the little time i have for LFS with some boring races just to be able to drive the XRT in distant future...

Al> yea, there are many, but how many are populated by +10 people?

but now that there is the possibility to drive the XRT with silver license, i'm ok with that, because i'll get my hands on a rwd car with the bronze license...

BBO@BSR

30th January 2007, 13:37

BBO> i didn't say i did not have time to race, what i said is that i don't want to waste the little time i have for LFS with some boring races just to be able to drive the XRT in distant future...

Well then I misunderstood that:
which is what i would love to do, but don't have the time for it... so thank you for frustrating me seeing the TBO server but not being able to race there...:ashamed:

:)

Anyway I still don't really understand your arguments.
Everyone (or the really fast guys) has to do the same "boring" things.
It takes some time, true but no one (fast or not) should get a special treatment nor should the system be changed for him.

So you got the self esteem to write here you are so fast bla bla evrytime 1st place etc.
Instead of complaining about the lack of motivation it gives you,
why not surprise everyone (the others) by doing the stages as fast as possible (boring or not).

The faster you are the less time you need for the "boring status stages" and you'll be quicker in Silver, Gold etc status.
Then you meet the other fast guys ealier and you got "not so boring" races anymore.
;-)

Chaos

30th January 2007, 14:17

Anyway I still don't really understand your arguments.
Everyone (or the really fast guys) has to do the same "boring" things.
It takes some time, true but no one (fast or not) should get a special treatment nor should the system be changed for him.

So you got the self esteem to write here you are so fast bla bla evrytime 1st place etc.
Instead of complaining about the lack of motivation it gives you,
why not surprise everyone (the others) by doing the stages as fast as possible (boring or not).

The faster you are the less time you need for the "boring status stages" and you'll be quicker in Silver, Gold etc status.
Then you meet the other fast guys ealier and you got "not so boring" races anymore.
;-)
time... i'm full-time employed, study a university, starting my own enterprise and i'm organising the 1. Czech LFS League... that is the main reason... i have very little time for actual racing in LFS and i don't want to waste it with boring races with cars i don't want to drive... and there are people racing cars I want to drive, but i can't join them... and as i understand the main reason for the licensing system is to prove that the driver is good and to keep unexperienced drivers off the "better" servers... and why could not someone get special treatment? you see that in your life on almost every step...

SamH

30th January 2007, 14:35

Just to put the cat among the pigeons, I've calculated that a genuinely outstanding, faster-than-the-rest driver can make it to Bronze in 3 races. Technically it's possible to do it in 2 races, but it's never been done.

Bean0

30th January 2007, 14:37

garph

30th January 2007, 14:41

time... i'm full-time employed, study a university, starting my own enterprise and i'm organising the 1. Czech LFS League... that is the main reason... i have very little time for actual racing in LFS and i don't want to waste it with boring races with cars i don't want to drive... and there are people racing cars I want to drive, but i can't join them... and as i understand the main reason for the licensing system is to prove that the driver is good and to keep unexperienced drivers off the "better" servers... and why could not someone get special treatment? you see that in your life on almost every step...
This is, unfortunately, your problem. It's nothing to do with the STCC program or how it's run. I'm sorry you don't have the time to race more and get what you want but I had to work for my gold so you should as well.

Another thing you see in life all the time is....tough shit!

Chaos

30th January 2007, 14:42

Is that by winning on a full server, setting server records each time ? has to be... i won 4 races yesterday with about 12 people on the server, 3 with fastest lap, one with 2nd best and i'm about half way to bronze...

Bean0

30th January 2007, 14:45

has to be... i won 4 races yesterday with about 12 people on the server, 3 with fastest lap, one with 2nd best and i'm about half way to bronze...

If you set a new record for that combo on that server there's a load of bonus points to be had. It will tell you if you do, but theres no way of checking the what the record stands at.

Jakg

30th January 2007, 15:54

last night, about 15 people racing on the bronze server, i won and set the fastest lap (not a server record, though) with ease - 80 points in the bag with an XRG

set a server record (like i know you can) and you could do it EASILY

dadge

30th January 2007, 16:21

this stcc license thing sounds like fun. i have been driving FWD cars in most of my lfs "career" and have been enjoying the RWD cars over the last few weeks. so i think i could have a blast in all of the servers. and did someone say rb4? (rubs hands)

BBO@BSR

30th January 2007, 16:27

time... i'm full-time employed, study a university, starting my own enterprise and i'm organising the 1. Czech LFS League... ...

That's good for you :thumb:
but it looks like you never learned this: You can't have it all.
It's called life.

and why could not someone get special treatment? you see that in your life on almost every step...
Tbh you should really think about your attitude.
Sorry to say that but I don't think you are THE special LFS driver and deserve more or better treatment then someone else.

And on the other side the whole idea of the STCC would be senseless.
If 1 driver would not be treated like the other, then the fun for all the others (and it looks like a lot of people next to you have fun doing it), would be taken away.

Jakg

30th January 2007, 16:40

just fyi, one particular group of drivers ARE given special treatment, namely the league drivers who, on request, can be given a platinum license so they can continue to partake in the events, however they are also made "License Exempt", and don't show up on the leader board.

I am one of the drivers that originally said i wouldn't take this offer, but unfortunately i didn't have time to get platinum before the event, yet here i am, a few days after the event with 200 points until platinum (which i would have earned), and when i get in i'm asking SamH to remove the points i've been given, and "un-exempt" me.

I would like to point out this is ONLY available to current STCC drivers, and not everyone has done this, some drivers like Horci or Bean0 have earned theirs, and we have drivers who've worked their nuts off to get a platinum to cover for a team mate who couldn't get to the STCC event.

I really don't see why anyone should be given points (hey, aren't i hypocritical?), but unless she did in this occasion we probably would have had only half the driver with a license good enough for them to join the race :p

PS - I do like the way that being given these points isn't greatly socially encouraged, with drivers "affectionately" being called "dirty cop-outs".

and yes, i WILL earn my platinum, just a few more races!

tristancliffe

30th January 2007, 16:53

SamH

30th January 2007, 17:00

Is that by winning on a full server, setting server records each time ?
Yepski :D

Dajmin

30th January 2007, 17:04

If you ask me, the problem is that eventually even crap drivers (like myself) will earn Platinum and Titanium, thereby making the whole points system null.

I was thinking about this a couple of days ago.

License status would be better defined by lap and overall times.
For instance, total race time divided by the number of laps, with a total taken of each track in the rotation. The top drivers would then automatically gain access to the better cars, while the slower ones would have a more even field to race on and something to strive for, rather than just grinding it out like it is now.
The reverse would also be possible on the higher ranks, where the lower percentages of finishers would be demoted and have to work on getting better. I don't even know if this idea would be possible, but it might be.

I have a whole idea swimming round my head, if the STCC folks want it, I can try to put it into words :)

BBO@BSR

30th January 2007, 17:05

just fyi, one particular group of drivers ARE given special treatment, namely the league drivers who, on request, can be given a platinum license so they can continue to partake in the events, ...
I know that (and it's understandable) but it has not really to do with earning the status thing for a normal driver.
It wouldn't make sense if the STCC league drivers can't take part in the league races just because the STCC entry system has changed and they have no license, wouldn't it. :)

SamH

30th January 2007, 17:05

I thought the first bits of the STCC were great - the XFG, the XRG were great races. The FXO is a bit of a boat, but I got through it to Gold in a day or two. But I've barely played since I earnt the right to drive the slower cars without driver aids, as it's just not fun being that far off the pace (maybe there are more Golders now, but I was in a group of no more than 30 Golds at the time, so competition was few and far between).

STCC was a thrill for a week, but now I don't even consider racing there for pleasure (although if I get time I'll pop in to see if it's changed).
It's all been switched. Now, you'll find lots of people driving XRT and RB4 and very few people in the FXO (or last time I went in and paid attention).

Entry into the Silver & Gold allows XRT and RB4. Once you get Gold, you can drive the FXO.. but if it's a Platinum licence you're after - and most people seem to be - then, along with everyone else, you're better off driving the slower 2 cars and accelerating your points bonuses.

2x points for FXO, 4x for RB4 and 5x points for the XRT.

SamH

30th January 2007, 17:14

If you ask me, the problem is that eventually even crap drivers (like myself) will earn Platinum and Titanium, thereby making the whole points system null.
The joy of this system is that the points are stored independently of any application running. The points database is the authority on the track, which means that once everyone's (or as near as makes no odds) on Platinum/Titanium, we can introduce an entirely new tier.

I, for one, don't want this to be the end of the story. New challenge, new prize, new car.. while ever it provides entertainment and something to strive for, and while ever people want to participate, I'm up for it. :)

Chaos

30th January 2007, 17:25

i didn't want points or anything, i just wanted to be able to race on the TBO server in the little time i have for fun races... SamH told me this was not possible, so I looked what the STCC was about... found out that i needed gold for the XRT (not true anymore)... ok, i'll give it a try... 5 races on STCC XFG/XRG server... 2nd and 4x 1st... fwd, boring races and the vision that i would have to go through this for a long time for the golden license made me start this thread... now i'm ok with it, because you only need to drive fwd with the beginers license...

BBO> I have learned this some years ago, when i could not finish my first uni, due to lack of time for learning... Was too busy with my first enterprise, which in the end turned up not that good...
and I will not comment the 2nd part of your post... i guess you don't know me and all the things i've done (and will do) in the LFS world...

Becky Rose

30th January 2007, 18:00

I would just like to make 1 point about the license system, the only way points are removed is by admin decision after reviewing a drivers actions either live or in replay.

The purpose of the system is to find clean drivers on the silver and above servers, particularly platinum where a "professional" standard of driving is expected.

It's not really about seperating the community between fast and slow, it's about providing a place for clean racing, and throwing people down or off if they cannot abide by that.

For this reason it is not my intention to introduce any system where a drivers license or access to servers decays except by admin review.

garph

30th January 2007, 18:02

I thought the first bits of the STCC were great - the XFG, the XRG were great races. The FXO is a bit of a boat, but I got through it to Gold in a day or two. But I've barely played since I earnt the right to drive the slower cars without driver aids, as it's just not fun being that far off the pace (maybe there are more Golders now, but I was in a group of no more than 30 Golds at the time, so competition was few and far between).

STCC was a thrill for a week, but now I don't even consider racing there for pleasure (although if I get time I'll pop in to see if it's changed).
I hate the FXO and couldn't wait to get out of it and into the XRT or RB4, even tho they are slower. The XRT is sooooo much fun and I feel like he-man when I get the manual throttle blipping right!

I'd say 75%, probably much more, drive either the RB4 or the XRT because they are more of a challenge to drive.

Funnybear

30th January 2007, 18:18

With you there. XRT is the only thing for me.

It's taken me ages to figure out the setup process for it and how to drive it but I won't race the FXO out of principle (Raced the XRG till I had my gold.) And the RB4 just doesn't float my boat.

I'm not sure why people are getting thier knickers in such a twist over this system. It's clear, concise and well admined. You don't pay for the privalage and it's not like anyone else has put in the hard craft to set up a rival system.

I don't feel I'm in a position to critsize if a: I havn't paid for it and B: I'm not willing to put in the work to give any moral standpoint. If I don't like it, I go do something else and absolutly nobody will miss me.

I certainly appreaciate the work you and your cronies put in Becky in al;l things LFS. Keep it up.

tristancliffe

30th January 2007, 18:22

I hate the FXO and couldn't wait to get out of it and into the XRT or RB4, even tho they are slower. The XRT is sooooo much fun and I feel like he-man when I get the manual throttle blipping right!

I'd say 75%, probably much more, drive either the RB4 or the XRT because they are more of a challenge to drive.

I agree - I'll never willingly touch an front wheel drive car or a four wheel drive car if there is a rear driver to hand, but I just got sick of being beaten by people who I considered to be slow, nooby drivers consistently because of a massive car advantage...

It's all been switched. Now, you'll find lots of people driving XRT and RB4 and very few people in the FXO (or last time I went in and paid attention).

Entry into the Silver & Gold allows XRT and RB4. Once you get Gold, you can drive the FXO.. but if it's a Platinum licence you're after - and most people seem to be - then, along with everyone else, you're better off driving the slower 2 cars and accelerating your points bonuses.

2x points for FXO, 4x for RB4 and 5x points for the XRT.

However, it seems my 'complaint' has been dealt with even before I thought of the complaint, so I may be eating my words (and hat). I'll try and poke my head in and see where it's at now, but it sounds rather more fun! :D

Funnybear

30th January 2007, 18:33

I didn't neccesarily begrudge the FXO for being faster, what I did have a problem with was the bully boy tactics of the drivers who can get away with barging and arse nerfing because of the FWD. Watching the STCC Round 5 today really iompressed me in that the FXO drivers where repectful of thier fellow racers. Sure everyone knows that the FXO is faster but if they can't get past then they can't get past.

I did notice that the last time I was on the FXO was definatly in the minority.

Christofire

30th January 2007, 18:57

One point as an aside, I wonder how far Chaos would've progressed his licence if he'd carried on without looking for a special handout... :scratchch

BBO@BSR

30th January 2007, 19:18

BBO>..and I will not comment the 2nd part of your post... i guess you don't know me and all the things i've done (and will do) in the LFS world...

Well I think you mean that 2nd part:
...
Tbh you should really think about your attitude.
Sorry to say that but I don't think you are THE special LFS driver and deserve more or better treatment then someone else...
It was just an answer to this (I found that argumentation really :pillepall, sry):
..why could not someone get special treatment? you see that in your life on almost every step...
For me this part of your post sounds like you think just because you see that in life everywhere, it's right. But I think it's not. If someone is thinking this way then he has a strange attitude for me and should think about it.

Anyway it's just my opinion and it was meant as a cause for thought.

But you are right I don't now you good enough nor have I heard enough about you but good that you do something for the LFS community like many many others do and did also (me including). I respect that. :thumb: (but that doesn't make someone special or should let someone think he is worth more then others or deserve a special treatment).

Chaos

30th January 2007, 21:48

One point as an aside, I wonder how far Chaos would've progressed his licence if he'd carried on without looking for a special handout... :scratchch
no progress... because i can't race at work, but writing is permitted ;)

BBO> i did not say special treatment is fine... i only tried if i could be specially treated ;) but it did not work... and who doesn't try, doesn't win :)

Hyperactive

31st January 2007, 10:02

BBO> i did not say special treatment is fine... i only tried if i could be specially treated ;) but it did not work... and who doesn't try, doesn't win :)

That is a one strange way of putting it.
"I think it is wrong to get special treatment. But could I get some?"