Stage Rallying: Obscurity, or lack of interest?

[XenoWolf]

A simple question. I've been trying to promote stage rallying on Live for Speed for about two months now, and at first there seemed to be a real interest for it. Now, as I see my entry lists getting shorter and shorter, I can't help but wonder where all of that momentum went!

Is there a general concensus for why most people seem disinterested in such events? I'm hoping it's just obscurity, and that proper promotion can help alleviate the problem. If it's not however, I have a bigger problem.

So, who has/hasn't heard of SimRS/LFS stage rallying?

If you have, what do you like/dislike about it?

If you haven't, does this sound like something you'd be interested in?

This is costing me real time, real money and real stress sometimes.. but I'm simply trying to add something new and different to the Live for Speed community. I appologise if I sound desperate, but I am in a way. I posted this here in the hopes to catch the opinions/thoughts of people who don't oft frequent the Leagues/Events forum.

Please, feel free to post any constructive critisism or questions, I'd much appreciate them!

[Batterypark]

You might've included a description or at least a link...

[Captain Slow]

if its basically a rallying league or series of events i think it would be fun, but im not a fan of organised avertised events because im a little wimp with no confidence in myself to do well. :shy:

[XCNuse]

i think its because LFS has a lack of interest when it comes to rallying, there was a supposed "rally pack" comming our way, but there is nothing soon about the "soon" that was said about it, so no one even knows if its actually being worked on or not or .. what

back in S1 i loved to rally, but right now its just not fun because dont have really any cars to rally properly

[Smurfen]

we need an WRC car and couple of stages :D

[LFSn00b]

We have a wrc car! FXR + Slickmod ;)

[XCNuse]

what kind of WRC car can only be raised to be 2 inches off the ground....?

[LFSn00b]

I dunno...^^

[XenoWolf]

You might've included a description or at least a link...

It was in my signature. :thumb:

http://www.simrs.com/

You can get a basic description of how it works in the 'About' or 'Rulebook' sections.

[XenoWolf]

if its basically a rallying league or series of events i think it would be fun, but im not a fan of organised avertised events because im a little wimp with no confidence in myself to do well. :shy:

It's not a 'league' per-se, atleast not yet. I'm simply trying to get some solid events organized before I concentrate on starting a league.

think its because LFS has a lack of interest when it comes to rallying, there was a supposed "rally pack" comming our way, but there is nothing soon about the "soon" that was said about it, so no one even knows if its actually being worked on or not or .. what

back in S1 i loved to rally, but right now its just not fun because dont have really any cars to rally properly

Interesting. When you say 'rally', do you mean rallycross or stage rallying? What I'm trying to get off the ground is much different than your typical rallycross.

[Kalev EST]

Constructive critisism eh? I´ll give it a try.... :p

- Use GMT as a timezone for start times. A lot of people(me included) get confused with timezones.
- Make the start times more European friendly because Europe has the most LFS players. I doubt anyone is interested in racing at 2am in the morning.
- Promote your league more. Get a subforum in the leagues section, go to team forums and post invitations, etc.

That´s about it for now. Personally I love rallycross. If there would be a league for rallycross I would definately join. About this stage rally thing... I don´t know, I haven´t tried it. I was going to last week but the race was too late for me and I forgot about today´s race. Maybe next time. Anyway good luck, keep at it.:)

[duke_toaster]

That´s about it for now. Personally I love rallycross. If there would be a league for rallycross I would definately join.

That is a shocking hole in LFS. Unfortunatly the RB4 people think "that tank thing from the STCC" and people think "z0mg d3m0 crax0r" when they hear XFG. FXO is like driving a GPL car on a lard covered ice rink, people think the UF1 does a micrometer a week, XRT is plain silly, XRG is equally silly - and LRF's are unsuited to RX.

And if it involves slickmod, people can't be arsed to DL an older version of LFS (Slickmod doesn't work in V).

[Kalev EST]

That is a shocking hole in LFS. Unfortunatly the RB4 people think "that tank thing from the STCC" and people think "z0mg d3m0 crax0r" when they hear XFG. FXO is like driving a GPL car on a lard covered ice rink, people think the UF1 does a micrometer a week, XRT is plain silly, XRG is equally silly - and LRF's are unsuited to RX.

And if it involves slickmod, people can't be arsed to DL an older version of LFS (Slickmod doesn't work in V).
I´m sorry. Your post is grammatically correct and I read it 5 times but I still don´t understand what you´re saying...:shy:

[XenoWolf]

- Use GMT as a timezone for start times. A lot of people(me included) get confused with timezones.

I'll begin using GMT/UTC from now on, I realize how confusing the time zone thing was. I'll also have a feature on my website (after a redesign) that'll be able to show the current GMT/UTC time.

- Make the start times more European friendly because Europe has the most LFS players. I doubt anyone is interested in racing at 2am in the morning.

I've been trying to do that by starting most of my events at 17:00 UTC. I may be able to start a few hours earlier, but that'll require me waking up earlier! :D

- Promote your league more. Get a subforum in the leagues section, go to team forums and post invitations, etc.

I asked in the one thread about a subforum to no avail, and I've began sending out invitations to teams this week.

Thanks for the response! :thumb:

[spookthehamster]

I think he was saying we need a rally car, but in a really long winded way.

[XenoWolf]

I think he was saying we need a rally car, but in a really long winded way.

To be honest, I think having a 'rally car' (read: WRC type car) would be complete overkill. Most of the stages I use are fairly short (unless I feel evil and decide to use Aston GP or something). For the first few events I had the FXR available, but nobody wanted to use it.

[Smurfen]

http://racing.webcindario.com/fotos/Lancia%20stratos%20rally%20car.jpg FTW!!!

[LFSn00b]

Hey by the way does anyone still have the U patch? I loved it more than the V patch... Sorry devs.:(

[JTbo]

I think there needs to be point to point rally tracks until rallying will be popular, as in current form it is not like WRC rallying, but rallycross or Jokkis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5emmcsjddFw) as we call one form of motorsport here.

[lococost]

Guys, Xeno is not talking about rallycross, which is going round a track together with other people for more laps, but rally as in you do track by track, 1 driver at a time, 1 lap per track. Sort of like normal stages in WRC but much more simplified. Some stages are on tarmac, some on rx tracks.


As for all the moaning for there not beeing a proper rallycar in LFS, the FZ5, RAC and LX4 are a blast to drive on the rallycross tracks.

[Sidewayzmaster]

I am interested in your server dude but I tried to get on today and i guess the event you were running required a password oh well i'll try later :)

[ajp71]

Never heard of it but I'm afraid to say that IMO LFS just isn't a sensible base for rallying atm, like rF it may have been ok if it weren't for the fact that RBR does it 10 times better out of the box.

I think there needs to be point to point rally tracks until rallying will be popular, as in current form it is not like WRC rallying, but rallycross or Jokkis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5emmcsjddFw) as we call one form of motorsport here.

That's what I originally hoped Flatout would be rather than an arcade game :shrug:

[Hankstar]

I'd rally in LFS if there were a WRC-style rally car (or two - coupe, 4WD, 400hp etc) and dirt (or dirt/tarmac) stages that were long & varied enough to justify such a car's existence (they wouldn't necessarily have to be point-to-point stages either as I know LFS can't do that atm, so circuits would be fine). I think a WRC rally car would be wasted in S2 as there just isn't enough dirt to use them properly :shrug: At the moment I get enough dirt action with the RallyX tracks and the smaller cars like the XFG, XRG and UF1. The RB4's fun and it looks the part, but could use an extra 50hp or so :)

[Gunn]

That is a shocking hole in LFS. Unfortunatly the RB4 people think "that tank thing from the STCC" and people think "z0mg d3m0 crax0r" when they hear XFG. FXO is like driving a GPL car on a lard covered ice rink, people think the UF1 does a micrometer a week, XRT is plain silly, XRG is equally silly - and LRF's are unsuited to RX.

And if it involves slickmod, people can't be arsed to DL an older version of LFS (Slickmod doesn't work in V).Oh, is that what people think? I think not.

[Batterypark]

And if it involves slickmod, people can't be arsed to DL an older version of LFS (Slickmod doesn't work in V).

From www.kegetys.net/lfs (http://www.kegetys.net/lfs)

22.12.2006
- Slickmod, smokemod & LFS5DOF updated for S2 v0.5V

[Theafro]

would be great, It'd be great if we could roam around the whole grounds of Blackwood etc. could be at least a couple of miles of stuff to be built.
for now fern bay is pretty cool and you can get some pretty long ish sections if you use the track wisely. sounds fun :)

[nihil]

Maybe a few screenshots might help... I saw your events advertised in the league section and looked at your website, but never got round to checking it out 'live'. Sounded interesting, but I wasn't sure if you were running point-to-point races, whether you'd made special layouts that took in grass and tarmac sections, whether you were using the rallycross stages, etc etc.

In short, it sounded like a great idea, but I wasn't sure how developed it was. I don't have much time at the moment, so it just got buried under the heading "great idea".

[Rubenz81]

Nihil : events simulate "point to point" with 1 lap race, 1 competitor per time.
Xenowolf for the last stage may use a "super special stage" layout where the track it's divided in two lanes by barrier with 2 competitors at time like the sss of real rally.
We actually use standard lfs tracks but it was proposed to use custom easy to remember layouts, but the only try was made by me and i have no skill in layout; so they suck:D
If someone is interested to make layouts i think it's welcome to do so!
But they have to be easy to remember so the organizer (Xenowolf) runs a lap before the stage so competitors while spectating can learn the track before the race; obviously they cant be too different from original track otherwise it will be a crash massfest!:D
Hope my english wasnt that bad, and if you like to try something new i really suggest to give it a try to this events!

[LFSn00b]

I've made some great point-to-point sprint tracks. They're awesome with FXR and slickmod :)

[Cue-Ball]

I would really love to do some rally racing, but not on the half dirt, half tarmac tracks we have now. There have been a lot of requests in the suggestions forum for a more WRC-like car and a very long, very curvy rally stage, dirt road type of track. Even if we never get the car, we really need the track to do stuff like this. If the autocross layouts worked on it we could even make custom start and finish lines so that no two races would be exactly the same. Just imagine a 12 mile course that goes up a mountain and down the back side where you can place the start and finish lines anywhere you like and run in either direction. The possibilities would be endless!

A similar paved version would be nice too. You could do downhill togue, hillclimb events, drifting, one on one battles, etc.

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

Just imagine a 12 mile course that goes up a mountain and down the back side where you can place the start and finish lines anywhere you like and run in either direction. The possibilities would be endless!

A similar paved version would be nice too. You could do downhill togue, hillclimb events, drifting, one on one battles, etc.

Great idea! Then LFS could "ship" with a couple of layouts. The 12 miles of course could have numerous branches / forks and then in the autocross editor you could place barries where you want and make a great many layouts. Seems quite doable!

The only thing with this event (which I have not heard of until now) is that it seems based too much on the flow of the track (have not seen, just what I picked up from this thread... Perhaps wrong...) Part of the intrigue of staging is that you need to learn the stage, so I might be more interested if the layouts went over curbs all the time and weird places and so forth.

[LFSn00b]

I want a paved and rallycross version of that 12 mile down/uphill.


And trees in the other sides of the road and possible to fall at some cliffs, would be more cooler :)

[XenoWolf]

The only thing with this event (which I have not heard of until now) is that it seems based too much on the flow of the track (have not seen, just what I picked up from this thread... Perhaps wrong...) Part of the intrigue of staging is that you need to learn the stage, so I might be more interested if the layouts went over curbs all the time and weird places and so forth.

As Rubenz touched on, I've tried not to use layouts due to the fact that I'd have a lot of DNFs.

If you want to think of it less as a stage rally, and more of a 'One Lap of Live for Speed'.. that's fine by me.

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

Heh, no that's not my point. If people were not familiar with the layouts, perhaps there would be more of a draw because most(?) people like challenges... If you're afraid of DNFs, that means you have to be careful - and read ahead. Nothing can be THAT surprizing since it says in the rules on the site that there is a run done by a non-competitor that everyone spectates. All I'm saying is that the unique pull of something like this may be better accomplished by making it slightly more radical. Others may disagree :shrug:

[detail]

I think the best way would be to make an area with 100 km of connected roads (LFS can handle 65*65 km area), so that there were a lot of combos. That would be enough for a rally of a national championship scale (150-200 km of specials).

According to my estimations, 1 km of track takes 2-2.5 MB disk space and 6-8 MB of RAM. Whatever config you load (AS1, AS2, etc), LFS keeps all the area (all the Aston, Blackwood and so on) in the RAM, and some memory is used for textures. So, 100 km will work OK on systems with 1GB RAM.

[jmracing1]

Guys, Xeno is not talking about rallycross, which is going round a track together with other people for more laps, but rally as in you do track by track, 1 driver at a time, 1 lap per track. Sort of like normal stages in WRC but much more simplified. Some stages are on tarmac, some on rx tracks.
Thx for making that clear once again:thumb: :schwitz:

Rallystages could be a fun event, but it needs much organisation cause LFS dont support it atm.

Rallycross is still working best when you drive it like we did in RXC imo, if the organisation around the system is good, it can work smooth and can be more fun than driving a single race 50 laps all cars on grid :schwitz:

The system: http://www.freewebs.com/rallyx/rules.htm#62935556

[XenoWolf]

What I'd really love to see is the ability to let end-users (us) build and use custom tracks. The only problem I could see with that is copywrite/trademark issues as people build tracks that need licencing.

[Rubenz81]

Well i was thinking...
With the current rules if we use custom layouts, the ones that starts last can spectate more time and have an advantage so...
Why dont start from the pit lane end 30 sec after each other; like after 1 min after the race start so we can also have false start (after replay analysys) so everyone can spectate only the organizer lap.
Like first start at 1.00 second at 1.30 third at 2.00...
With that one can learn the difficult passage of the track but cant learn perfectly all the track. A substitute for codriver?
Also starting from the pit lane end we dont have starting guys disturbing finishing guys and viceversa.
Hope that my English wasnt that bad!

[lateralGman]

Would be nice if we could do the RBR stuff here. Seems like the majority like the superfast F! out of the box cars since the BMW got here though. I like it all but have had some real good fun in the slow little pizza car on the rallycross track. A real WRC type car and track would be sweet though. Kinda like speed tv these days...no WRC around where did it go?:shrug:

[andy_bonjon]

Well i was thinking...
With the current rules if we use custom layouts, the ones that starts last can spectate more time and have an advantage so...
Why dont start from the pit lane end 30 sec after each other; like after 1 min after the race start so we can also have false start (after replay analysys) so everyone can spectate only the organizer lap.
Like first start at 1.00 second at 1.30 third at 2.00...
With that one can learn the difficult passage of the track but cant learn perfectly all the track. A substitute for codriver?
Also starting from the pit lane end we dont have starting guys disturbing finishing guys and viceversa.
Hope that my English wasnt that bad!

i had a similar thinking to you about the staggered starts after the first event that happened and it would work but would need more effort from the admin to calculate the results. Also even if your on track in your car waiting for the start there is nothing to stop you watching other ppeoples laps so the advantage for the latter starters would still be there.

[Fetzo]

i just like rallycross much more and i am not a hotlapper.

[Rubenz81]

Andy: youre right but still later starter will manage to spectate not too much (with 30 sec interval or even less, you dont have too much time expecially if you have to exit from box and go to the pit lane end) and with the risk to be late for start.
Of course it's not perfect but it's an improvement for me!
It will be not difficult for Xenowolf to calculate times as you have only to sum delayed start times to overall.
Sorry for my bad English!

[XenoWolf]

For those interested in seeing what stage rallying is like, the SimRS server is currently set at our SO5 (South City Town Course) rally stage! Just log in, join the server and run a lap to see how it all works.

Server name: [SimRS] Club Rally