LFS Lessons and early braking.

[z3r0c00l]

I would like to see a lesson in the LFS lessons section where you have to stay behind the car infront, close to, without touching, for a lap.

I think this would be a useful skill, and stop people tapping people if they try and brake early, either for tyre saving, or whatever reasons.

I also think the LFS lessons should be mandatory before it enables Online Multiplayer.

Naturally how far you've got would have to be recorded by LFSW, so when you re-install you don't have to do it all again.

Any opinions?

Dave

[frokki]

Any opinions?
:thumb:
Really good ideas - I'd like to see them both in LFS as soon as possible.

[Becky Rose]

There are two schools of thought, "public racing should be pick up and play out of the box", and "i'm sick to death of noobs in public racing".

Currently LFS is designed to cater to the first group, and to some extent the second group is starting to be catered for via the community driven race licensing system. So we are starting to get the best of both worlds.

There's no harm in revamping the tutorials, but I dont honestly think it would be good to force people through them before connecting online - lets not forget that single player in LFS is ruddy aweful, if there is a skills test involved before playing multiplayer then LFS could be a waste of £24 if people cannot access the only content worth having.

I like the idea of the lesson, I just dont think it should be mandatory.

I fall into the second group btw :) For the most part.

[frokki]

Making the current driving lessons mandatory would be a pain in the a** to newbies. But it's also a pain in the a** to try to race on a server when there's people who can't drive XRT on a straight line, not to mention cornering.

A compromise would be good, for example dividing all lessons into different levels and easier levels (mostly car controlling and understanding racecraft) would be mandatory.

[BurnOut69]

I also think that adding some (many) lessons regarding race craft would be a huge boost to all the new people to LFS.

Also, it would be a good idea to make it visible in LFSW that you completed successfully all lessons. Some kind of non-noob flag.

[sinbad]

I think it would be off putting if they were compulsory, because those tests are borrrring. And then on the other hand, I think if they were optional the only people that would do them would be the cautious and aware types that do not really pose any problem online anyway.

[Dajmin]

I'm in kind of a split mind regarding mandatory completion of the lessons.
Sure, it means players have at least been told the basics of racecraft. But at the same time, it doesn't guarantee they've learned anything from it. And right now progress is just marked by a text file, isn't it? Meaning anyone could edit how far they've got.

I would love to say I'd completed all of the lessons, but I got very frustrated with the first Rallycross overtaking lesson, because although I can drive cleanly and finish the lap first, the AI tends to ram into my sides on corners and causes a fail. I know I could probably pass by taking a strange line through the first couple of corners to let it screw itself over, but since I'm not that great at Rallycross anyway, I can't guarantee that would work :)

I guess you could make any lessons involving racing AI drivers non-mandatory so that their mistakes don't penalise you. I use the word "racing" there so that lessons like the OP could still be considered important.

[the_angry_angel]

Quite simply, if lessons became mandatory, I would walk away from LFS within minutes.

[Dajmin]

Why? Surely if you're good enough to already know everything the lessons teach, you'd fly through them in minutes?

[fragile_dog]

this game is an online racing sim. If i was forced to take a load of lessons before getting online i wouldn't be best pleased ;/

[BurnOut69]

I do not think they should be mandatory. However, the % of lessons completed with success (or specific ones), could be used to determine the 'level' of a single driver, lets say for example, to enter a league.

Its like wearing a Tool t-shirt. No one forces you to do so, but when you see someone wearing it, you know for sure he's got good music taste.

[Bob Smith]

I got the impression that some sort of racing license / experience system was going to be part of LFS by S2 final, and that would be tied in to the lessons.

[mrodgers]

Quite simply, if lessons became mandatory, I would walk away from LFS within minutes.
I'm with him and I've said so in all the threads started about mandatory lessons.

Simply put, you pay for the product, you have the right to use that product. You pay for an Online Simulator, you have the right to play an Online Simulator. Having the right to be on an idividually paid for server is something completely different, but you still have the right to be able to attempt to go online.

[Hyperactive]

It doesn't need to be a test. But some kind of basic information about flag rules, racing line, online behaviour and LFS should be included in some ways. And a way to force people to read and learn them. Tests are usually boring and can be quite repetitive for more experience people and can also be quite frustrating to less experienced people. The starting levels are quite different...
---
Simply put, you pay for the product, you have the right to use that product. You pay for an Online Simulator, you have the right to play an Online Simulator. Having the right to be on an idividually paid for server is something completely different, but you still have the right to be able to attempt to go online.
It can be seen that the limitations of the product are also features of the product. Part of the fun in gran turismos is the "getting better stuff". In LFS it could be translated as "getting better skills". I understand your point but imho it is bit far fetched :)

EDIT: "the right to be able to attempt to go online" sounds ridiculous when you are talking about a sim/game :) It has imho nothing to do with "rights"

[tristancliffe]

It depends on the test - if I need to do a million tests to drive the next car, including ones that take 5 minutes each - then I'll just wait until someone works out how to bypass it. If I can skip the training lessons and just do a single test for each car (which includes various skills, and racing other cars in one test) then I'd accept that.

Even better would be if the lesson status is saved on LFSW, so that a reinstall doesn't mean a retest.

[Bob Smith]

Even better would be if the lesson status is saved on LFSW, so that a reinstall doesn't mean a retest.

I'm sure I saw something on LFS World hinting at that, can't seem to find it now.

[Gunn]

I'm not interested in doing any mandatory driving tests whatsoever.

[anttt69]

I think they should make the tests compulsory before you go online & the tests should unlock faster cars as you progress. So if you pass the XFG test you can race the XFG on-line & so on.

Current racers would be exempt or maybe less than 1000miles LFSW could force the tests. Its just another challenge its not going to stop you playing the game or enjoy it any less. It would ensure that only noobs who know how to control the car they are driving would be allowed on a server.

It could also be a server option so that admins can reject or accept the unqualified.

[BurnOut69]

Or have some LFS official servers where new people can earn their ranks while not being forced to race stupid boring AI (even if they get 300% better it will still be AI).

Which, in essence, would be Becky's system built into LFS, to some extent.

[Dajmin]

I think the problem with any system is simply that it won't help the people who actually need it, while it will hold back those who don't.

I think what would be better is if people just recognised what they need to improve on and worked on it by watching other racers, rather than just trying to run hotlaps then complaining when people get in their way.
(And I already know my biggest problems are early braking and not using the width of the track. But I'm trying!)

[col]

Currently LFS is designed to cater to the first group, and to some extent the second group is starting to be catered for via the community driven race licensing system. So we are starting to get the best of both worlds.


It started to get better, but there's a long way to go :)
Last night I spectated a couple of races on the STCC silver/gold server. Big field, about 12 fxos and 2 xrts. I was watching a very fast and very experienced xrt racer. He went to (or near to) the front in each race due to the fast starting car. Then one by one, fxos cought up and passed. I would say that of the ones that cought an passed probably 80% of them tapped him wide in corner entry before passing - noone apologised, and none slowed and waited after the taps. This seems to be getting worse not better on the silver server, fxos often have a huge majority, and many of the drivers seem unwilling or unable to respond the different handling and performance of the xrts.

The problem with these incidents are that although they break the rules, they are not serious 'wrecking', and there are so many of them that it would be a full time job reporting them all - so they seem to have quickly become acceptable... people are starting to realise that most of the time they won't get reported...

These drivers would all pass any 'tests' easily, so that would be no help... it seems to be an attitude problem - a few are arrogant ****s who believe that if they are faster than another car for any reason, they have the right of way, and can do what they like to get past, but many just have no manners, so if they get it wrong at corner entry and tap they guy in front, instead of apologising and waiting, they just fire on through like it was a 'good pass'.
(I did it once last night myself in the heat of battle, and felt guilty later - an fxo tapped me and passed in a hairpin, then in the next turn - also a hairpin, I went in a bit too hot (not intentionally), and tapped him back - normally I would have apologised and waited, but I was angry after the previous turn so didn't...)

I think this is a big problem becuase IMO the only way to deal with it is to have a constant admin presence, and thats not practical without loadsamoney

Cynicism aside, your licencing system is great - it has brought a new lease of life to LFS for jaded old has-beens like me ;)

cheers

Col

[Becky Rose]

If my tiered servers have tought me anything it's that 80% of the LFS community do not know racing rules in regards to who has right of way on a corner, and fewer still realise that throwing a yellow flag means you must wait for the track to clear before rejoining it. The problem here isn't knowledge or common sense or tutorials, it is computer game mentality. Restricting users access to online content on that basis is just plain wrong, but...

That does not mean that there should not be a place for people who do understand and respect racing regulations to go.

Unfortunately, I think the devs are powerless to act - you pay your £24 and that means you have access to the games content, it would be wrong for them to then turn around and say person A's £24 is worth more than person B's £24.

That's why I have great faith in licensed racing, and in a few months im confident that we'll see more servers running it.

My last 'contraversial' in game chat resulting from racing? I had spun, I was stopped on the track sideways to the flow of the track, so I waited for the impending arrows on the mini-map to clear, of course, somebody ignored the yellow flag and argued it was my fault...

These kind of descrepancies will always occur in pickup racing, but with licensed racing you have a panel to appeal too and effective, non-terminal, action can be taken (banning would have been overkill - making the admins powerless to resolve such a dispute).

[z3r0c00l]

That's quite a debate that's turned up!

I didn't mean so much the current lessons in their entirety, but, making a certain set mandatory, such as "I can follow a car round the track going slightly slower than me without smashing into the back of it, and punting them out the race". One explaining rear wheel drive, front wheel drive, the correct procedure in turn one, you get the idea.

I know these are all part of the forum section, but a lot of racers never even get to the forum within the first few months of racing! I think at the very least a forced video, and a one lap check what you've learnt would be good for everyone. With the current AI, anyone who can't keep up with them doesn't really deserve to be on a public server anyway, they're simply going to get themselves a burning banana for ruining other peoples races, which causes friction between racers, and there's enough of that already.

I know everyone's got a right to the content, but, in terms of realism, they do not let 8 year olds drive DTM cars, for a reason, because they'll crash it very quickly, unless they get some practice, so force a little practice, only a few laps, away from races other people care about.

Seeing as they look the "coolest" the first thing any driver who's just forked out £24 is going to do is jump in the GTR cars, and if they're under 15, is jump on the conedodgers server, because it's got cool cars and lots of people, fire up RACE_S, and obliterate everyone, assuming they get off the line alright.

Just because I've paid £24, doesn't entitle me to shunt all and sundry off the track, wasting other peoples £24, on the premise that I don't know what I'm doing.

All you people who've said no, how long would it take you to beat the AI six times, one lap each, and watch a few quick videos?

I don't want to keep people off the servers, I just want to educate them. I've done all the training, and I'm still atleast a second off the pace most races, because the training is quick and easy, if I can beath the AI's, I'm sure everyone else can.

[Shotglass]

These kind of descrepancies will always occur in pickup racing, but with licensed racing you have a panel to appeal too and effective, non-terminal, action can be taken (banning would have been overkill - making the admins powerless to resolve such a dispute).

like what ? as youve siad it doesnt warrant a ban ... its too late for a kick and you cant fine them like youd do in real life (not that any f1 driver cares much about paying .000001% of his paycheck but still)

I didn't mean so much the current lessons in their entirety, but, making a certain set mandatory, such as "I can follow a car round the track going slightly slower than me without smashing into the back of it, and punting them out the race". One explaining rear wheel drive, front wheel drive, the correct procedure in turn one, you get the idea.

the idea is good in principle as long as people who know all this already can pass those tests within some 10 minutes and the result would be stored on lfsw for all eternity
maybe a multiple chioce test that you can skip to if you know all the information thats asked beforehand

With the current AI, anyone who can't keep up with them doesn't really deserve to be on a public server anyway

just because someone is slow as hell doesnt mean hell ruin anybodys race

[duke_toaster]

I would just remove the tutorials and stop these silly server licencing systems.

What I find utterly stupid, though, is on the STCC you need a licence obtained in the FXO to drive the RB4, when RB4 is most definatly easier to drive with 4WD :pillepall

[herki]

I'm sure I saw something on LFS World hinting at that, can't seem to find it now.

http://www.lfsworld.net/?win=racer_search
right side, search criteria, racer experience :tilt:

[nihil]

I know everyone's got a right to the content, but, in terms of realism, they do not let 8 year olds drive DTM cars, for a reason, because...


...that would be dangerous. Crashing an animated car is not even remotely dangerous.

Public servers should be public: money down, let's go racing, learn (or not) along the way.

The licensing system creates an alternative ladder, and organised leagues provide for a 'filtered' quality of racing (or should do...)

There's just no reason to make the lessons obligatory (the fact that seasoned LFS drivers have no racecraft is just wrong, but no tutorial is going to make them learn if they can't even be bothered to interpret the few rules and guidelines that exist anyway)

[Peptis]

Instead of trying to keep the new players off the servers perhaps we could try and help them get better. We'll build a much better community working together than trying to create some sort of tiered elitist structure.

Basically there are two types of people online: 1) The sorts who want to "play nice"; and 2) Those who only want to win/drive fast and don't care about whose race they wreck.

By helping out the first type of racer we can build a better community. Nothing that has been said in this thread will stop the second type of racer from being offensive, that is just how they are. Furthermore, they will surely be able to pass the licensing system (or lessons, or whatever) and will just continue to act in the same way.

[ajp71]

These kind of descrepancies will always occur in pickup racing, but with licensed racing you have a panel to appeal too and effective, non-terminal, action can be taken (banning would have been overkill - making the admins powerless to resolve such a dispute).

Not always the case N2003s system worked very well, creating full servers full of people running at similar speeds with a lot less wrecks in the higher servers because the rank system was heavily based on accidents as well as performance and infact many servers could specify to only discriminate on the accidents ratio.

[Woz]

If we get the much wanted hardcore mode then you should be required to complete the lessons to join a hardcore server and not for a normal server.

Just an extra thing to keep the noobs away from people that want a serious race :)

The lessons are SIMPLE and quick to complete. If the pass marks are stored online I can't see a problem with making them a requirement.

The other solution is to allow server admins to decide if they want tests as a requirement or not

[Linsen]

I'm strongly against the driving tests to become mandatory, they're dull and don't keep wreckers or reckless drivers away, imho. Personally I have taken a few tests when they were first introduced and soon stopped because I got so bored. If the devs however should really implement that sort of thing in the future, I guess we'll have to live with it and can only hope that they find a sensible solution. As it is now, I'm perfectly content with what we have, namely a whole bunch of freely accessible public servers and some STCC-servers. And I hope Becky's is right, when she expects more tiered servers in the future (are there any news, btw, or was that just a wild guess, Becky?).

[Peptis]

I still fail to see how a "skills test" will stop someone from acting offensively online. You're not going to stop offensive behaviour with a test. The idea is such a knee-jerk reaction with no basis in reality.

I would say that pretty much everyone knows that they shouldn't crash into other racers, some just don't care.

[Cue-Ball]

I also wouldn't want to be required to take mandatory driver training just to play the game. Even though many people think it wouldn't be much of a hassle, I still wouldn't be for the idea. A lot of the problems discussed here can be dealt with through education and a better standard of what's acceptable and what isn't.

I think a better solution might be replays or videos that cover the rules of racing. Videos are obviously more customizable but replays are much smaller in size and could be included in the LFS download. There could be multiple different demonstrations that cover each of the common problem areas such as passing, blue flag, yellow flag, black flag, pit speed limit, cold tire issues, etc.

I know that quite a bit can be done with replays using InSim, such as changing camera position, changing target car, etc. Perhaps something like this could be done with a few replay files and a number of scripts. I think that if something like this is done it really needs to be included with the game. There are far too many racers who try the game but never visit the forums or who won't have the patience or bandwidth to download 50MB videos just to learn the rules of racing.

[Gunn]

I think that lack of driving ability is a very small issue. Lack of racecraft is a very big issue. Teaching people how to slalom through cones won't help them understand overtaking or flag rules nor race etiquette.

Education is what is needed most, not training. I think that the lessons can provide a bit of both of these things but mandatory driving tests have no value for me at all. Besides, you'll have to drag me physically kicking and screaming to get me to drive a shopping trolley or FWD car. :weeping:

[ColeusRattus]

Quite interesting topic.

Why not combine the two points of view?

On the one hand, with a greatly reworked driving school (á la Richard Burns Rallye for example, with a demo run and a text and/or voice-over and a lot less repetitive lessons and most importantly, an evaluation afterwards), you could hand out licenses which are stored on LFS-World. To make things more interesting, there could even be different qualities of licenses, so there would be D, C, B and A licenses with "bronze", "silver" and "gold" status.
Server admins could freely adminster the license needed to join their server, so it could be C "gold" and B "silver + gold" and the whole of A. To think this a little further, there could even be car restrictions per server per license, so multiclassed racing with additional results per class would be possible.

On the other hand, as not to alienate the "we hate mandatory driving tests"-faction, the server admins could chose to not restrict the server access to certain licenses. Thus, anybody could join out of the box. Additionally, you could also acquire the licenses on these servers via a similar system to the STCC with the most obvious difference that this license wouldn't affect the choice of the car (which is only dependant on the server settings), but only the choice of the server.

Another thing where such a license system might come in handy: Sometimes when I race, there are hardly any races going on on public servers, the STCC is full and I don't know the passwords of private ones. So, server admins could additionally try to level out the skills on their server by allowing some licenses to join automatically and others,w ho don't obtain these licenses would need to enter a password to join.

But rereading it makes me think that it would be quite a lot of work to realise it...
BTW; IIRC there was a credit based unlock system in S1, wasn't it? I darkly remember trying out the demo and having to race in the XFR in order to optain the XRG and then the XRT...

[R3DMAN]

i just thought i would throw this idea in the pile, i havent read the whole of this topic so i appologise if its been mentioned.

it was regarding the idea of having the training passed before you can join a multiplayer game. well..

how about making it so when you create a server, public or private there is an option to tick 'Training' (or something along those lines) once this has been ticked the server only lets ppl join who have completed the training missions.

this would reduce the number of 'noobs' on them servers.

[duke_toaster]

I think they should make the tests compulsory before you go online & the tests should unlock faster cars as you progress. So if you pass the XFG test you can race the XFG on-line & so on.

Current racers would be exempt or maybe less than 1000miles LFSW could force the tests. Its just another challenge its not going to stop you playing the game or enjoy it any less. It would ensure that only noobs who know how to control the car they are driving would be allowed on a server.

It could also be a server option so that admins can reject or accept the unqualified.

Yes, if we have any form of mandatory tests all current licenced drivers should be grandfathered in having all cars available. And anyone with over 2000km should automatically get all cars available.

Even better, remove the tests with no replacement or have tests more pertaining to online play I.E. something like the avoidance in tourist trophy (3 sets of tyres, depending on a light go left or right, random each time) and a pit stop in each car.

[Bob Smith]

Yes, if we have any form of mandatory tests all current licenced drivers should be grandfathered in having all cars available. And anyone with over 2000km should automatically get all cars available.

I don't like the idea of that at all. The reason the points system was useless in 0.3 days was that you could unlock any car by just driving the GTi. I don't like the idea of unlocking cars in single player, but for multiplayer I think it would be beneficial if you have to prove you can at least get the car around the track.

[duke_toaster]

I don't like the idea of that at all. The reason the points system was useless in 0.3 days was that you could unlock any car by just driving the GTi. I don't like the idea of unlocking cars in single player, but for multiplayer I think it would be beneficial if you have to prove you can at least get the car around the track.

OK then, make the tests needed for each car.

Let a faster driver (20% more power due to the silly AI) through within 2 or 3 corners Complete a lap of a reasonable length for that car (FOX - AS National, GTR - AS North, MRT - SO Sprint 1) without leaving the track Make a legal pit stop, obeying blend lines

Bear in mind this would do **** all against wreckers - these would be effective against few but this would make sure what people are doing BUT it would cause more annoyance than it would be worth - keep it how it is I say.

[Moonclaw]

How about requiring a racing license that costs 1500 euros, like a real driver's license. On top of that only allow 720 degree force feedback wheels with three pedals and proper shifters. That would keep the wreckers off the track and leave the hardcore simmers in peaceful racing heaven.

[duke_toaster]

How about requiring a racing license that costs 1500 euros, like a real driver's license. On top of that only allow 720 degree force feedback wheels with three pedals and proper shifters. That would keep the wreckers off the track and leave the hardcore simmers in peaceful racing heaven.

Is this a f*cking joke or did you forget the smileys?

[zeugnimod]

Is this a f*cking joke or did you forget the smileys?

Sorry, but LOL.

Its obvious that he is dead serious, isnt it? :shrug:

Just as serious, as I am now.

[DieKolkrabe]

Interesting thread.

My take on it is that if the lessons are mandatory, people will either a) slog through them, be bored, and not go online due to fatigue due to LFS or b) bypass them, and go online.

In my view, the issue is not so much of racecraft and 'keeping noobs (How I hate that term) off servers', for that fragments the community, but of education. I have a solution. If we TEACH LFS drivers what the rules mean, on specially designated servers, (Sort of like an online LFS racing school), maybe tie it in with some sort of license system (possibly STCC), so that passing a test gets a mark, failing it gets a demerit, for instance, and if you have a certain number of demerits, say, 10, you are offered extra tuition to help with the weak areas and 10 merits means you are allowed on some servers. Also, there could be a centralised system for reports and complaints, with merits and de-merits done on a race-by-race basis. 'Ah' I hear you cry, 'What about the people who complete the tests then clear off?' My answer would be simple, Refresher courses and Rookie programs, again, on specially chosen servers, at random intervals.

Just my 0.02 Euro

Have a good day

DK

[duke_toaster]

Interesting thread.

My take on it is that if the lessons are mandatory, people will either a) slog through them, be bored, and not go online due to fatigue due to LFS or b) bypass them, and go online.

In my view, the issue is not so much of racecraft and 'keeping noobs (How I hate that term) off servers', for that fragments the community, but of education. I have a solution. If we TEACH LFS drivers what the rules mean, on specially designated servers, (Sort of like an online LFS racing school), maybe tie it in with some sort of license system (possibly STCC), so that passing a test gets a mark, failing it gets a demerit, for instance, and if you have a certain number of demerits, say, 10, you are offered extra tuition to help with the weak areas and 10 merits means you are allowed on some servers. Also, there could be a centralised system for reports and complaints, with merits and de-merits done on a race-by-race basis. 'Ah' I hear you cry, 'What about the people who complete the tests then clear off?' My answer would be simple, Refresher courses and Rookie programs, again, on specially chosen servers, at random intervals.

Just my 0.02 Euro

Have a good day

DK

+1

[i30i3i3y]

How about a multiple choice exam. 35 questions, 30 correct to pass then view some clips to test your hazard perception... oh wait..no, never mind.

Joking aside, I'm strongly against any sort of unlocking system. It's merely an annoyance, like others have said, I'll just wait for a 100% unlocked savegame or something.

Although, I do support allowing restriction of servers by PB times solely because I've seen it work so well in leagues.

[bbman]

Although, I do support allowing restriction of servers by PB times solely because I've seen it work so well in leagues.

I can assure you, it definately wouldn't work, it would just limit the access to the servers, like "complete all trainings to go online" (which you're against, hello double moral)... I've raced a few leagues, with different systems and believe me, leagues are completely different to public racing... In leagues, everybody has a common goal (finishing as far in front as possible), and everyone respects the other and is cautious not to crash, as it would result in penaltys (up to being banned from the league) and fewer points... Public racing doesn't have that...

[duke_toaster]

How about a multiple choice exam. 35 questions, 30 correct to pass then view some clips to test your hazard perception... oh wait..no, never mind.

Some form of theory test (like on one forum you have to do a small test to be able to post) would work actually.

[i30i3i3y]

I can assure you, it definately wouldn't work, it would just limit the access to the servers, like "complete all trainings to go online" (which you're against, hello double moral)...

It's not a 'double moral'. You'd still have unrestricted servers for any Tom, Dick or Harry to join. Only I'll be looking for servers operating an Intermediate restriction for close racing, while trying to improve enough to take on the WR contenders on Professional servers.

In leagues, everybody has a common goal (finishing as far in front as possible), and everyone respects the other and is cautious not to crash, as it would result in penaltys (up to being banned from the league) and fewer points...

In any race everyone 'should' have a common goal (finishing as far in front as possible), and everyone 'should' respect each other and 'should' be cautious not to crash, as it would result in penalties (up to being banned from the server)...

Public races may not have this at the moment, but they should.

Most servers are enforcing rules more actively nowadays, they're trying to bring league racing standards to the masses. Surely this is the way forward?

[bbman]

But you won't solve anything with restricting access through PB's... I've seen slower people behaving much much better than some "fast" guys who couldn't stand driving around you, only to get a .001 sec faster PB... In addition: Have you done every combo? No? Maybe you are satisfied with the combos you did until now, I personally like to try out new things...

[Neil777]

Reading some of the replies above I think I must be some kind of exception, I downloaded the demo and the first thing I did was go through the lessons. As soon as I'd finished them I bought the S2 licence and went through the remaining lessons, this was all in one day by the way.

[sinbad]

Reading some of the replies above I think I must be some kind of exception, I downloaded the demo and the first thing I did was go through the lessons. As soon as I'd finished them I bought the S2 licence and went through the remaining lessons, this was all in one day by the way.

I'd be willing to bet on you being an asset to any server without having to do those, though. They may have taught you something (just time in the cars is worthwhile, though you don't need any kind of lesson structure for that), but I believe that the type of person, like yourself, that is considerate of their actions, would not be any problem in any LFS server, regardless of if they have completed "Lesson 99G- Overtaking whilst typing" or not ;)

After all, there have been newbies coming to LFS for a long time, long before the lessons were invented. Some do a few silly things, but most (in my experience) do just fine, regardless of how well/fast they are actually driving. I just don't see a problem in need of solving, certainly not one that warrants restrictions placed on newbies playing experience in any way.

[bbman]

Reading some of the replies above I think I must be some kind of exception, I downloaded the demo and the first thing I did was go through the lessons. As soon as I'd finished them I bought the S2 licence and went through the remaining lessons, this was all in one day by the way.

Most of us have done all the lessons at least once and just lost it because of reinstalling LfS... Would you really want to do it all over and over again just to go online? I think not... And it's not like "you finish all the trainings, you go fast" either... When you did all the trainings, you still have only a slight grasp of the handling of those cars... Racing them, in a packed field, that is something completely different... THAT is the reason for those negative replies...

[zeugnimod]

Most of us have done all the lessons at least once and just lost it because of reinstalling LfS

Are you sure about that?

I would have said that only very few people have actually completed all the lessons.

I only did maybe 5 or 6 lessons and had enough of them after that and went to race online and have fun. I would imagine, many peope do the same.

[Linsen]

I'm pretty sure that people who have actually taken all the lessons are the exception. I mean, I think it's great when people new to LFS actually go through that trouble, but I sure wouldn't hold it against anyone if he didn't take the lessons. I'm not sure what I would have done if the tests had been there when I started to play LFS - I might have taken them, but it's also possible that I would have been very bored very quickly.

[Lateralus]

Its like wearing a Tool t-shirt. No one forces you to do so, but when you see someone wearing it, you know for sure he's got good music taste.

I agree with this guy.

[nihil]

I might have taken them, but it's also possible that I would have been very bored very quickly.

They're very tedious and repetitive - I guarantee you'd have done what I did: "oh... that looks interesting, let's have a go... oh, that's three cars done and it's not been in the least bit interesting... I hope it gets better than this..."

It doesn't and you never open that part of the program again.

BTW, @whoeveritwas.... PBs for single laps mean nothing... I'm as slow as drying oil paint, but still finish ok, because I can stay on the track for more than four laps in a row. I do most of my overtaking of faster drivers as they go searching for a quiet spot in the countryside for the nth time....

[CYA LTR]

The main reason I play LFS now is that it lay dormant for a year, then I picked it up and went 'hey, a game where I can just race without unlocking anything, without download 3000 interdependant mods and where I don
t have to read 10 howtos to get Nordschleife to work with my graphics car so I can start driving'.

So mandatory tests would have put me off.

That being said, doing the tests could unlock little easter eggs that people would want but which doesn't do anything other than being specific (say a set of wheel-skins, rims, helmet-skins etc. as you go along).

Also some more interesting tests could be made to make it a little more fun.

[RBSteve]

Instead of trying to keep the new players off the servers perhaps we could try and help them get better. We'll build a much better community working together than trying to create some sort of tiered elitist structure.

Right on.

Many years ago I flew an online flightsim alot (Aces High). They had a training area where experienced volunteers were appointed as instructors.
The instructors joined the game when they had time/wanted to and found someone to help. As a student you simply joined and waited for an instructor to offer help, then they'd take you for a ride, diagnosed what your problem was and helped you fix it.

Best and most efficient training I ever had in any online game, works for all experience levels. 15 minutes of personal, practical instruction is easily worth 15 hours of training lessons by yourself. Only problem is you have to find enough instructors, but people usually like to teach.

Then again you could argue this is how it works anyway if one joins a club or team. Of course, if the teams stop accepting newbies with restrictive licensing systems, then it doesn't.

Just a thought.

[RBSteve]

... Although, I do support allowing restriction of servers by PB times solely because I've seen it work so well in leagues.

I think that sort of restriction gets rid of some of the wrong people while not keeping the right ones out.

It is entirely possible to be fast, reckless and disrespectful.
It is equally possible to be a responsible, careful driver who do not cause trouble for others but just isn't very fast.

As a matter of fact I would count myself into the latter category.