Formula 1

[XCNuse]

surely an S3 thing hopefully, but i really want to see an F1 type car in LFS before its done. Especially with the option to have the additional spoilers that attach to the side pods for extra downforce

kinda makes since to have an F1 if we have 3 other formulas :)

[nikimere]

F1!? pfft...

I'd much prefere to see a Champ Car or an Indy Car. Much more of a drivers car than an F1 car.

[al heeley]

Well I have to say the worst set of races I come across are FO8 races, where people want all the power but can't control it well. 10 restarts per 10 lap race leaves me bored. F1 would be much worse than FO8 races, I reckon.

[XCNuse]

ya but when you get to F1.. i mean im sure some people that cant handle it would give up on it

keep in mind.. F1 does have traction control (ish) in it

[Bob Smith]

Yeah, but LFS doesn't. How do you keep managing to come up with bad ideas XCNuse?

I'm sure something akin to Formula One will be in LFS at some point. I mean if you want, whenever we get LFSTweak for S2, just give the FO8 twice the power, that'll get you most of the way there. Assuming we tweak downforce settings, give it a load more as well. Now you're nearly there.

Of course it'll be hard to know what settings we'll be restricted to adjusting on just the demo cars. Less than before I'd imagine, but as long as we can do something with the new cars, I'm happy. :)

Getting a bit off topic now but I can't wait to try and re-create the 6500hp dragster I made, see if I can actually pull away without blowing the tyres. :D

[XCNuse]

:p cause i made all my good ideas when i first joined LFS lol

still have some good ones if you look back in RSC.. many of which have been brought up by multiple people too so..

plus how is an F1 a bad idea?

[sil3ntwar]

Not necessarily and F1 car but a car with F1 speeds. A single seater that could reach 350+ would be awesome.

[ajp71]

Historic F1 cars are a must, thinking 80s and before

[al heeley]

ya but when you get to F1.. i mean im sure some people that cant handle it would give up on it
Yeah right, like the wrecking n00bs that give up on the FO8 you mean.......not. They don't give up, they just keep ruining other peoples races.

[XCNuse]

what are you trying to prove al? that just because some people ONLINE cant handle a car that it shouldnt be put in the game???? that makes absolutely no sense what so ever

[Bob Smith]

Just that there are issues to be solved before we go about making things more chaotic.

[Rob76]

One concern I have with F1 cars in online racing is that the amazing acceleration, braking and direction change causes problems even with small amounts of lag.

I've seen this in rF, where due to lag and the prediction used to best guess the competitor's behaviour, you see absurdly quick direction change, artificially reduced braking distances and floating cars (mostly on downhill sections). This seems to be where the 'real' rate of direction change was too quick for the predictive methods to cope with.

Also close racing was impossible on road courses due to the lag when the guy in front brakes. For a split second the car in front appears to be still accelerating and then it suddenly stops dead. Definitely a problem if the guy in front brakes earlier than expected, either because of them being a novice, braking for other cars themselves or just slight differences in driving style.

The netcode in LFS may be better (it's better in most other areas ;)) but I can still see it being a problem with cars with the performance of an F1 car. Even with the F08 I've only had good racing on the ovals where it's all about drafting. On the road courses it's had limited appeal for practice laps, but I've never got to the point where I've had a good race against other racers.

I'd much rather see F1-style cars from an era before the insane levels of downforce. Something with reasonable power but the grip and brakes are not too much for the netcode to handle.

[cannonfodder]

Historic F1 cars are a must, I'm thinking 1967 and before
;)

[XCNuse]

http://www.atspeedimages.com/winehist2002/1975_vels-parnelli_vpj104_f1.jpg

or one like my dads :) :
http://www.atspeedimages.com/winehist2002/1980_mclaren_m30.jpg

.. id rather go for the parnelli :D

[al heeley]

I have nothing to prove, XCN, but I'm continually disappointed by the chaotic driving of a lot of people in FO8 cars, who clearly cannot handle them, and just ruin other people's races.
If F1 cars are introduced, can you really see this improving?
To be honest, your reasoning about people not handling it 'deciding to give up' is the most ridiculous argument ever for justifying why LFS should have even more powerful cars. The best races are still UF1's!

[Takumi_Project.d]

I have nothing to prove, XCN, but I'm continually disappointed by the chaotic driving of a lot of people in FO8 cars, who clearly cannot handle them, and just ruin other people's races.
If F1 cars are introduced, can you really see this improving?
To be honest, your reasoning about people not handling it 'deciding to give up' is the most ridiculous argument ever for justifying why LFS should have even more powerful cars. The best races are still UF1's!

agreed 100% on all counts!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing wrong with F1 if you have a field of talented F1 drivers. but all it takes is for 1 newbie to ruin the whole thing.

in most cases faster cars = less closer races

more opportunity for people to stuff up, lose control and take out other people, or simple end up in the sand trap voting to restart.

Now, where's the keys to my UF1 :D

[XCNuse]

still... what about the people that dont race online?

lfs isnt just online you know;therefore, i dont see why things that happen online should have an impact on the offline experience

plus.. no one said you had to go on certain servers?

LFS is to be a real racing simulator is it not? .. of course.. so shouldnt it have cars for all types of racing? .. of course!

[Takumi_Project.d]

still... what about the people that dont race online?

lfs isnt just online you know;therefore, i dont see why things that happen online should have an impact on the offline experience

plus.. no one said you had to go on certain servers?

i really hope you are joking ;)

if LFS is aiming to be the definitive offline experience i think the AI should be looked at first :thumb: it can't even handle the F08

[XCNuse]

S2 isnt done

and LFS for sure isnt done at all its still got several years

common guys honestly.. your judging lfs by its online experience.. you cant do that, you judge it by gameplay

[Doorman]

Well I have to say the worst set of races I come across are FO8 races, where people want all the power but can't control it well. 10 restarts per 10 lap race leaves me bored. F1 would be much worse than FO8 races, I reckon.

Jeez! I gotta admire your persistance. !0 restarts? If it runs to 3 restarts I'm outta there!

[Blackout]

S2 isnt done

and LFS for sure isnt done at all its still got several years

common guys honestly.. your judging lfs by its online experience.. you cant do that, you judge it by gameplay

Well there you go, you answered to your own suggestion, LFS has many years ahead and stuff to come. Online experience? This is Online Racing simulator, so why all happening online should not affect to your experience? Thing is thou that there isnt even V8 servers with road courses, only V8 oval madness, which tends to be litle boring. And litle offtopic, but servers could stop hosting all the cars...

[Tweaker]

I thought the FO8 would be really fun to race online... but I have found that to be extremely fast, you need to be a skilled driver... thus making the competition very uneven. I see a lot of road course FO8 races that end up to be very scattered and/or not even a close race. If you get lucky, join a server full of people that know what they are doing and race close.... that'll be the day!!!

And even more so, like Al has been explaining, there is no point to even TRY to have a good race with the FO8 because amateur or noob drivers are always crashing at the start and calling for a restart... restart... restart. No fun in that.

Formula 1 would make the FO8 obsolete and twice as desirable to drive, they would never give up on it. I personally wouldn't like to see an F1 car released by the devs... I am way more satisfied with saloon cars, rally cars (We should be shouting to have this!!!! way more fun!!!), go-karts, etc....

I haven't raced the FO8 for a long time... last time I raced it was like a few weeks after S2's release. All it is now is just stupid FO8 oval servers with bogus setups -- I don't want to go there. The FOX is more fun though, and THAT is where I draw the line in my open wheel racing, can't get any better than that probably :).

[Qurpiz]

I wouldn't be to happy about F1 either. Rally Pack and go-karts instead, please.

Edit: and, of course, tracks for go-karts.

[DeXteRrBDN]

To have a good race with FO8 or similar cars, you have to participate into a league.

I have never had a good FO8 race into a public server. My best races were allways in a league, where people train theirselves and the day of the race, nobody is crashing at the first lap.

So I want a F1 car too, maybe I will not have good races on public servers, but In leagues, I will.

[tailing]

I would have thought come S3 something like a F1 car would be only natural. I can't see any real reason not to include one at some point, in S1 we had the LX6, in S2 we've got the FO8, in S3 it'll be something else.

[XCNuse]

I would have thought come S3 something like a F1 car would be only natural. I can't see any real reason not to include one at some point, in S1 we had the LX6, in S2 we've got the FO8, in S3 it'll be something else.
.. thats what im hoping

but apparently some people .. apparently.. never (or did) like the idea of having an F1 car

F1's have traction control and stability and whatnot you know, we wouldnt be sliding around as much like we do in the FV8's

also by S3 im sure the amount of grip cars have will be correct so there will be sliping in the end anyway

@Tweak
i do have to agree with you with making the fv8 obsolete, but look at how it is now? the past month i've only seen 1 MRT server (yesterday) with only 3 people... im sure that at one point in time people will slowly go back
i raced the MRT the other day by myself, and i really miss the thing; wish people would race it more! (just needs some downforce :D)
oh and one last thing; it looks like oval servers go obsolete during weekends.. or they have in general, because i see very few now (as compared to when S2 came out)

[ajp71]

I think it could be done, I have had the odd good race in the FO8, but only when everyone is pushing to the same degree. To drive the FO8 you need to be:

A. Careful on the throttle (all to obvious)
B. Push it hard enough to get the aero working

[Scottie]

wait til 2008 and the F08 will be an F1 car...

[al heeley]

MRT was great in S1, such fun. In S2a, I can't stop the thing from sliding, though I'm no expert and have not played with setups much - just raced a few of the old favourites round South City, I can barely do a lap without losing it, it was never that slippery in S1.

[XCNuse]

.. why would the fv8 become an F1 car? the fv8 is an F3000

when i mean F1, im talking several hundred HP, 22k RPM, and 10 or 12 cylinders

[DodgeRacer]

They are cutting the balls off the F1 cars and making them run like 2Lish V8's..

other than the fact they rev to 20k rpm that is pretty simular to the F08, but F1 cars definatly make more downforce..

[al heeley]

when i mean F1, im talking several hundred HP, 22k RPM, and 10 or 12 cylinders
What are they now? 680 - 730 BHP?

[XCNuse]

found a neat website here; toyota's F1 has 900+ it says ! wow!!

@dodge.. when did you hear that??? :sorry: noo
if its gonna be that then.. i want an F1 from nowadays

heres a neat website with alot of info on this years F1 cars
http://www.motorsm.com/motorsport/auto/F1/2005_cars.asp

[tristancliffe]

F1's currently about 900 - 1000hp (1000 for Honda Suzuka race special apparently)... ev to about 19k rpm

The 'new' V8's are currently revving to about 22k, and producing about 750hp I think...

[Chris_Kerry]

Didn't have S1, but we at tsr. in a private server ran in the MRT's round Blackwood. Wow that was fun! :thumb:

I can't believe people have abandoned this car.

<thinks>

Oh yes I can, theres that other great single seater called the FOX.

F1 car's, you have to be kidding. Imagine people who can't even start in the Fo8's and FOX's in an f1 car. Mayhem!

[al heeley]

F1 car's, you have to be kidding. Imagine people who can't even start in the Fo8's and FOX's in an f1 car. Mayhem!
...Which brings us right back to the start of this post again, I agree totally with you, unless S3 has all the driving aids that EA F1c has, and sanitises the entire driving sim experience by providing a car with so many stability aids that us mere mortals are able keep on the track. Now where would the fun be?

[AndyC]

Didn't have S1, but we at tsr. in a private server ran in the MRT's round Blackwood. Wow that was fun! :thumb:

I can't believe people have abandoned this car.

<thinks>

Oh yes I can, theres that other great single seater called the FOX.

F1 car's, you have to be kidding. Imagine people who can't even start in the Fo8's and FOX's in an f1 car. Mayhem!

All i use to do in S1 was race the LX6 and mrt5 around blackwood, some of the best races i had. I was pretty quick to and i loved them.

Nowhere seems to have these servers up anymore

[DodgeRacer]

found a neat website here; toyota's F1 has 900+ it says ! wow!!

@dodge.. when did you hear that??? :sorry: noo
if its gonna be that then.. i want an F1 from nowadays

heres a neat website with alot of info on this years F1 cars
http://www.motorsm.com/motorsport/auto/F1/2005_cars.asp
Next year mate :( I have video around somewhere of the cosworth V8 if you'd like to see/hear it, sounds very odd


from 2006 season, Formula 1 will use 2.5 litre V8 engine compared to 3 litre V10 used in 2005.

[DodgeRacer]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/popups/video.asp?ar=216402

merry christmas :P

[XCNuse]

sounds the same to me.. but thats over computer and whatnot, so its hard to tell..
owell.. thats kinda odd though, i wonder if they were going all out or not, cause it sure did take a while to get up to 20k :S

@chris and al and all of you whom agree with them
... would you prefer to not have an FV8 and no FOX but the other cars instead? in a way thats what you are saying, lets get rid of the high HP cars and get some slower cars .. i mean.. we all want diversity, and by limiting it to that.. its kinda ruining the game
plus, as mentioned before LFS is meant to simulate all types of racing.. so why should F1 be left out?
in a way, its similar to antidrifters.. they dont drive the track right so lets get rid of them.....
well.. what would you do when someone kicks you out of your house because you believe a way.. or in a deep way of looking at this.. nazism.. if you dont believe this or do this.. then you arent welcome
(not trying to be mean, just proving a point of what it sounds like stereotypically)

[DodgeRacer]

I'm sure they were just feathering it in, but that is about 5k rpm more than the current engines run and it has a much less raspy sound to it to me...sounds like a turbine haha

[skiingman]

I love how the idle is 9k....


I also love how current F1 cars sound like they will explode at any moment when the traction control is working overtime and the foot is to the floor in a increasing radius turn out of a slow corner. Some driver/car combos feather the throttle there, others just mash it and let traction contol do its work. The sound is like nothing I've ever heard from an internal combustion engine.

Watching it on TV just doesn't do it justice...the mics are all in front of the exhaust. Its mindblowing in person. I'm going to try and hit both the Canadian and US GP this year...didn't last summer, but I guess I'm glad I missed the US GP lol.

[XCNuse]

yep that was a sad story.. hey atleast they got to go see the formula atlantic race in oregon! lol
was mad though when i saw what people were doing.. water bottles and whatnot on the track.. thats scary

[Chris_Kerry]

sounds the same to me.. but thats over computer and whatnot, so its hard to tell..
owell.. thats kinda odd though, i wonder if they were going all out or not, cause it sure did take a while to get up to 20k :S

@chris and al and all of you whom agree with them
... would you prefer to not have an FV8 and no FOX but the other cars instead? in a way thats what you are saying, lets get rid of the high HP cars and get some slower cars .. i mean.. we all want diversity, and by limiting it to that.. its kinda ruining the game
plus, as mentioned before LFS is meant to simulate all types of racing.. so why should F1 be left out?
in a way, its similar to antidrifters.. they dont drive the track right so lets get rid of them.....
well.. what would you do when someone kicks you out of your house because you believe a way.. or in a deep way of looking at this.. nazism.. if you dont believe this or do this.. then you arent welcome
(not trying to be mean, just proving a point of what it sounds like stereotypically)

My Favourite car is the FOX, so why on earth would I have the viewpoint that I want these types of cars out of the game.

You're so called assumptions are well off the mark, and being quite frank with you, your reasoning behind why you think there should be F1 cars in the game is quite ridiculous. Mate go on a F08 Oval server and see how people can't harness the power.

Okay add driver aids, but isn't LFS trying to be a pure driving simulator without these, focusing on driver talent rather than how well technology makes up for your lack of skill.

In my honest opinion f1 is poor at the moment, and there are many purely dedicated f1 games out there that it will be very hard for the developers to compete in this market.

LFS if you ask me, doesn't need more cars or tracks, it needs things like weather, altering track conditions and an improved tyre and damage model. I'd rather see these than including f1 cars that's for sure! :nod:

[al heeley]

Well at least the Fo8 ring servers are contributing to the community by keeping some of the other tracks freed up for decent racing :up:
Don't try getting too deep with us, XCN, it doesn't work very well!;D

[XCNuse]

lol i didnt want that to get too deep lol i just couldnt come up with a better example :p

@chris; i know.. i used to race oval races all the time, but not nearly as much since its boring me now...... and i really dont have many problems, the only times i have problems is when my FPS drops like mad at start and spin out, but you have to admit, its not nearly as bad as it was when S2 first came out

lol and dont worry chris.. your reason why there shouldnt be an F1 is just as bad

[Chris_Kerry]

lol i didnt want that to get too deep lol i just couldnt come up with a better example :p

@chris; i know.. i used to race oval races all the time, but not nearly as much since its boring me now...... and i really dont have many problems, the only times i have problems is when my FPS drops like mad at start and spin out, but you have to admit, its not nearly as bad as it was when S2 first came out

lol and dont worry chris.. your reason why there shouldnt be an F1 is just as bad

I'm struggling understand why my argument is just as bad?

Don't you agree we need to have altering track conditions etc etc?

[XCNuse]

yes i do agree

but just because you cant handle it doesnt mean you cant have it? (i mean that may be the same reason why the LX8 got taken out, but also because the XFGTR had no competitor really)

with as many helping "things" these guys run in F1 i dont think it would much of a problem (or atleast not as much compared to F3000) i mean watch some races of F3000 guys, they arent nearly as stuck to the road as the F1 guys are, rarely will you see an F1 guy "spin out" and if they do, its usually because the tires are dirty or something
i mean.. the F1 guys arent driving those huuge machines by themselves, its to dangerous (atleast im sure thats a reason why they all have TC)

[tristancliffe]

The reason they have TC is because the FIA admitted it can't actually govern who does and doesn't have it. Therefore they just made it legal.

The reason it started in the first place was to take some of the work load off the driver (which makes them more consistent, less tired, and safer). It is also, in a modern F1 car, generally quicker (especially in low-grip conditions, and mainly over a race distance rather than one lap) quicker.

I disagree with it, but thats the price of progress.

[al heeley]

A real F1 car, in the hands of a young untrained amateur, is a deadly thing. If LFS is to remain true to its reality core, then by definition, an LFS F1 car sim will be beyond the ability of many people, to control and race safely and competitively.

[RacingSimFan]

Me and a couple of my teammates have been running FO8's on Aston National.

It takes lots of skill but it becomes a lot of fun to drive this car on the other tracks (ie. not KY Oval). If we can get enough serious and skilled racers we might be able to start a league with it.

It just takes practice.

[JeffR]

There are some players that mostly play offline, and for them something like an F1 would be nice. I found the formula car in rFactor to be fun, and F1C99-02 has been around a long time.

Regarding the F3000 class, it's no longer a supported FIA event. F3 and F2 classes are considered the replacement.

[RacingSimFan]

Regarding the F3000 class, it's no longer a supported FIA event. F3 and F2 classes are considered the replacement.

No, F3000 is still running, it's just called GP2 now and has a different format.

The FO8 could also be compared to the new A1GP cars, although it is not nearly as radical looking as they are. (airbox/wings!!!)

[XCNuse]

hah wow.. i keep hearing about A1 GP and when you said radical looking i decided to check them out to see how radical looking they are, and i have to admit.. they are VERY neat looking
http://www.formule2.com/data/media/11/dmc0424no18.jpg

very futuristic and smoothed out F3000/formula nippon
they almost look like they have some IRL in them

looking at some of the stats on these things.. they can pull 3.5G's .. amazing stuff, but i guess we wont see those in LFS as its basically has the same makeup as the FV8 (engine and such wise)

[Scottie]

A real F1 car, in the hands of a young untrained amateur, is a deadly thing. If LFS is to remain true to its reality core, then by definition, an LFS F1 car sim will be beyond the ability of many people, to control and race safely and competitively.

Unless I'm very much mistaken... that's the reason why we don't have the LX8 GTR yes?



sorry... a fan... ;)

[XCNuse]

no one is really sure why we dont have hte LX8, but im pretty sure we will get it back, the devs just wanted something to be matched up with the XFGTR, instead of another car by itself so.. lets wait for S2 full and hope we get the LX8 back ;)

[vpr01]

A real F1 car, in the hands of a young untrained amateur, is a deadly thing. If LFS is to remain true to its reality core, then by definition, an LFS F1 car sim will be beyond the ability of many people, to control and race safely and competitively.

This is an awful argument against implementing F1 cars into the game. However true this is, you cant deny the good racers and people that want faster and more powerful cars their right to have them cos some noobs cant get to grips with it.

This is where the Kick and Ban voting comes in very handy.

I like the idea of F1 cars in the game, and hope that the devs decide to implement them, with some decent sounds, unlike all current cars :(

And with regard to the A1GP cars, the FV8 is pretty much the same car. Just not as fast, good, or neat looking. And A1 is pretty awesome to watch... I was at Brands Hatch to see the inaugural A1GP.

[tristancliffe]

A1GP = Yawn. Second rate drivers (mostly) in ugly cars, with passing aids. Sounds like real fun to me (not).

I want F1 cars in LFS!!!! but only if noobs can't get them. Perhaps if you needed 20000 LFSWorld (online) credits to use (assuming LFSW isn't prone to hacking). As long as it's made VERY clear that the F1 car is NOT available to people until they have played a LOT, then no-one can complain.

Oh and the 20000 figure was just a quick figure. 10000 might be more appropriate. But I guess the amound could be varied in S3 Alpha.

[speedfreak227]

i think they SHOULD ad an f1 style car but i'd probably never use it online. i can't even handle the f08 at racing speeds.

but i'd LOVE to watch a race full of guys who know how to handle 900 hp in a 600kg car!!!!!


speedfreak227

[Roos VR6 mkII]

I have nothing to prove, XCN, but I'm continually disappointed by the chaotic driving of a lot of people in FO8 cars, who clearly cannot handle them, and just ruin other people's races.
If F1 cars are introduced, can you really see this improving?
To be honest, your reasoning about people not handling it 'deciding to give up' is the most ridiculous argument ever for justifying why LFS should have even more powerful cars. The best races are still UF1's!

I kinda agree with you. The thing is that the FO8 is a tempting car to try out when you are a noob. And is posibly the most dificult car to race. So there you have it. It takes time to master. Once we all were noobs you know.

[jmkz]

including a F1 car would just add more DEPTH to the game, as you can have yourself a F1 racing simulator as well as a road car racing sim.

I remember my first time with F08, trying to control the power was a thrill all on its own,

I would never think of joining an online race if I did not at least be able to lap the track with the chosen car in a decent amount of time without crashing, pratice offline and than go online to find races. F08/F1 races are possible, but as said by others, they require more skill than FOX, GTR and all the others thrown together; knowning that real F1 racers have the "best trained body" in the sports world, you'll know that racing such a car, even in a sim, will be far from easy.

it's the challenge of being able to pull it off which attracks people (well most), and just because some people in online public races like to crash does not mean the F1 has no place LFS

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah, I don't get the whole "F08 is too hard to handle to be allowed online." mentality.

Should we lose all the cars in the game except the XR GT? No lag problems, fewer unskilled (or unpracticed) driver problems. It's a golden world in the one car sim.

Sure, I see a lot of races online with people struggling to keep the F08 wheels down. You know what? Great! That's what they should be doing if it interests them. Pass out setups and get in the fray.

We have spectator mode in LFS. With it I have recieved and given excellent training. I have decided whether or not to stay on a server and race.

I have had so many excellent F08 races online there is no point in trying to count them.

Can you say "leagues"?

[Leprekaun]

I think an F1 car would be very nice, but I think for the sake of those who can't handle the power, there should be some proper TC.

[Colin_Chapman]

I Want F1 Cars, and from the era of highest levels of Ground Effect XD (70s, 80s)

Ehm, a noob question: Does LFS simulates Ground Effect?¿?¿?¿?

[ColeusRattus]

I Want F1 Cars, and from the era of highest levels of Ground Effect XD (70s, 80s)

Ehm, a noob question: Does LFS simulates Ground Effect?¿?¿?¿?

Just look at the average Kyoto Oval setup, then you'll se that the Ground-Effect is not (yet) simulated...