Online Races - a bid for more variety

[farcar]

I've noticed that LFS servers are dominated by races in the bigger faster cars. As much as I love the FO8, FZ50 et al, I'd love to see more servers hosting races for our smaller and more forgotten friends: The MRT5, XFR and even (gulp) the GTI.

Races in lower powered cars are often closer and more accessible to more racers than an F08 race at AS Historic, for example. Hopefully leading to larger fields and tighter racing.

One thing that might cause this great game's demise is accessibility (or lack thereof), and the current lean towards the extreme cars on the servers aint helping this a bit.

[danowat]

There always seem to be servers offering UF1 races, I have done these a few times and they offer very close, very fun racing.

On the other hand, I do agree with you on the variety thing, there are a number of tracks that I have never seen a server for........, but there are at least 4 servers offering GTR cars on Aston.

Dan.

[Dan Hot]

i often look for servers with either XFG or XRGs but there arent many - if any any times. i run a small 10 slot server for them myself sometimes but my connection ain't the best for this.

[Boris Lozac]

I also think that there should be more servers with some normal cars, like GTI, those Blackwood runs are so great with good comepetition!, i bet it's great on other tracks, and we can have 20 players, not 11 like in demo.. Also, MRT is so great, LX's i tried some offline and it's great, i bet it's even better online.. I dont' know why people like so much GTR cars, i find them very frustrating, and not intererestring to drive.. FOX on the other hand is great! and i am glad that it is popular online..

[tailing]

Going by the little flag next to your nick you're an aussie, I believe one of the optus servers is now permanently setup for the road going cars, LX4 down iirc.

The thing about people driving the faster cars is that many of us have driven the low powered cars to death through S1, slicks and downforce are the new things to play with and there are also many people who just don't like low powered cars.

I wouldn't mind seeing the dedi server setup to only allow either slick or road tyred cars, might reduce the number of servers with all cars and provide a bit more variety.

[farcar]

Going by the little flag next to your nick you're an aussie.
Spot on there digger, and yeah I've been on the Optus servers on occaision. When they're up and populated that is.

I wouldn't mind seeing the dedi server setup to only allow either slick or road tyred cars, might reduce the number of servers with all cars and provide a bit more variety.
That's a very good point about servers allowing all cars. It only takes one bloke to jump into an FO8 and everyone will follow. Then you might as well have a server that is FO8 only. Kinda pointless when you think about it.

[mrodgers]

This is brought up all the time, more servers with just the road cars, more variety in tracks, etc. If you made more servers with the road cars, then I think it would just make the GTR and other slick car servers fuller. These cars are the ones that are popular, therefore everyone will run them. Just because some people want more servers running the road cars, doesn't mean others will join. The faster cars are popular, therefore that's what they will run. I see plenty of servers running just the road cars myself, they are just empty. If anyone agrees with your opinion on the road cars, then if you join an empty server, then others should follow along shortly. If not, then you are of minority opinion. It's like saying here in the US that too many are driving Japanese cars so we should make more of the dealers switch to selling American cars. You can't get rid of all the Japanese manufacturer dealerships, so the ones that are left will just sell more cars each than they would if there were many dealerships.

My opinion, the new tracks were made for the race cars and most as myself are enjoying the new tracks with the new cars.

[the_angry_angel]

Solution - list only empty servers, enter, vote to end, change the settings, wait for racers. Play.

[--==Gogo==--]

Solution - list only empty servers, enter, vote to end, change the settings, wait for racers. Play.

Don't you need admin rights on the server to change the cars??

[farcar]

This is brought up all the time, more servers with just the road cars, more variety in tracks, etc. If you made more servers with the road cars, then I think it would just make the GTR and other slick car servers fuller. These cars are the ones that are popular, therefore everyone will run them. Just because some people want more servers running the road cars, doesn't mean others will join. The faster cars are popular, therefore that's what they will run. I see plenty of servers running just the road cars myself, they are just empty. If anyone agrees with your opinion on the road cars, then if you join an empty server, then others should follow along shortly. If not, then you are of minority opinion. It's like saying here in the US that too many are driving Japanese cars so we should make more of the dealers switch to selling American cars. You can't get rid of all the Japanese manufacturer dealerships, so the ones that are left will just sell more cars each than they would if there were many dealerships.

My opinion, the new tracks were made for the race cars and most as myself are enjoying the new tracks with the new cars.

Well, I think this is a little narrow minded. You obviously love your race cars and couldn't care less about the road cars in S2. Good for you.

However, some people (other than yourself) actually enjoy racing the road cars too. You said yourself "This is brought up all the time". My point was that there are limited opportunities at the moment.

I just had a look then, and (discarding servers allowing all cars) 12/14 available servers were allowing GT and open wheelers. Some where allowing road cars too, but my experience shows that nearly everyone opts for the fastest allowed cars. Who wants to race against an FO8 in a GTI?
These servers were on average around 1/3 full, so I wouldn't be too worried about a few more road car servers causing overload on other servers.
Of the 2 servers only allowing road cars, both were about 1/3 full and both playing the BL GP Track. One was GTI only, the other allowing XRTurbo, RBF and FXO. Not a lot of choice there eh?

I realise that the race cars are more popular, I love 'em too. However I think there are plenty of available servers to provide a good variety racing on a good variety of tracks, and if decent road car races were available, people would join them.

[Bob Smith]

I'm a bit torn, I love playing with the road cars but most important to me is practising for my league races, which are (currently) with the FOX and GTRs. So that's where I mainly put my hours in.

I've often joined empty servers and raced by myself for an hour or two, to have at most three or four people join - barely enough for a race. I also sometimes host a server myself if I can't find a good combo elsewhere, but I have similar success in terms of people joining in.

[Cue-Ball]

I also get tired of seeing nothing but F08s and GTR cars in the races. I run the Seattle server and generally have those cars disabled on the server. Last night we have between 3-8 people on the server all night running MRTs, FZ 50s, GTs, etc. We ran the cadet track at Aston, but spent most of our time on less used tracks like Westhill (and Westhill in the FZ 50 is a blast!).

I've also found that turning off the GTR cars is a great way to keep out less experienced drivers. For some reason it seems like newbies always want to jump right into the FZR and run full throttle. If the GTR cars aren't available, those type of people tend not to join the server.

[deggis]

I've noticed an interesting thing. Usually at night time (about 3:00-7:00 CET) there are very few full servers. Usually just two. The other one is a drift server and the other one (what a surprise) KV Oval & FO8. I think Japanese players are on the drift server and American oval fans on the other server? :)

[Rotary]

I've noticed that LFS servers are dominated by races in the bigger faster cars. As much as I love the FO8, FZ50 et al, I'd love to see more servers hosting races for our smaller and more forgotten friends: The MRT5, XFR and even (gulp) the GTI.

Races in lower powered cars are often closer and more accessible to more racers than an F08 race at AS Historic, for example. Hopefully leading to larger fields and tighter racing.

One thing that might cause this great game's demise is accessibility (or lack thereof), and the current lean towards the extreme cars on the servers aint helping this a bit.

Leagues have a big influence on what cars a server runs... well so I think. Most people tend to race on a server that allows them to practice for an upcoming league race.

I bet if next the AAL was a road car league there would be hardly any faster car servers and most people would be practicing the road cars :)

[Gunn]

I don't use the road cars any more at all. They have lost their appeal for me. You just can't push them the same way you can the FOX, the GTR cars and the FO8. I was looking forward to some semi-slicks or slicks for the road cars but alas it did not happen.
Our team had a race in the UF1s around cadet the other night and we were all bored well before lap 5. I guess the race cars spoil you a bit, but I just can't get enough of them.

I like seeing servers with only one car selectable. That way you are sure of a close fight on more or less equal terms. Although there are times when mixed classes can work together it isn't always good on a public server. A XFG vs a LX4 is never going to be a fair fight, for example, so you can't stop someone from ruining your XFG race with your friends, all they need to do is join with the LX4. While most servers try to cater to a broad spectrum of racers, I believe more success will be had if you specialise in one car or class only per server. If your server is always up at the same regular time and always set to the same regular class then people who like racing that class should begin to notice and show up regularly.

[Sunday Driver]

I agree that it isn't a good idea to allow all cars on a track. I always stay away from these servers. It would make no sense if I want to practise with a GTR or even worse with a GTI and some minutes later other drivers join in driving with Formula 1 cars. :tilt:

But a little bit variaty should be there in my opinon. Yesterday I hosted the "Sunday's Fun Server" with short 5 round races, allowing UF1, XFG, XRG, XRT and LX4, which should appeal to newbes knowing the demo cars and drivers who loves to drive or try out the Mini and Roadcars.

A very good driver who loves drifting around can be competive with the XRG to an unexperienced XRT driver. I had also an intersting race in my XRT against someone who liked to learn the LX4 Roadcar. The UF1 and XFG are perfect to learn a new track due to their good handling and braking abilities.

We were up to 5-6 drivers yesterday and I enjoyed it very much. Alas I have no oppotunity to run a 24/7 server. I'm sure such servers could be a success if some people even with different driving skills come together for having fun and forget for half an hour of winning and being the fastest is everything.

[bo-kristiansen]

That's a very good point about servers allowing all cars. It only takes one bloke to jump into an FO8 and everyone will follow. Then you might as well have a server that is FO8 only. Kinda pointless when you think about it.

agree. - I never join a server with all cars allowed.

[Honey]

it's really a shame that some cars and tracks are very rare... :(

i think one problem is that we have too many ranges of cars, i mean except fo8 and fox wich is reasonable, if it could be chaged or added some cars to have similar performance to lx's and mrt. also if uf1 could have similar performance to gti would be much better.

to me it's very important if could be reduced "classes" of cars making cars into each class almost equal in performance even with much different behaviour and in each class it should be present a fwd, a rwd and an awd. this is the key to more interesting races because it reduces the spread of racers, adds a lot of variety by having much different cars racing together and so avoids that some wonderful cars are forgotten.

about track variety i don't know what could be done but it's a shame that we have so many configurations (let's dont forget reversed configs) and everyone always plays the same...i've seen fern bay black only once since s2 came out!!! :(

[Sunday Driver]

A lot have to do with racers attitude. Today I made a server running on Green among others. 3 players left the server immediatly after they weren't on first position after the first 3 corners. Well they were involved in a crash, but something like that I've only seen on Midnight Club 2 servers. (I have never seen more childish behaviour in an online game like there.)

After 3 corners the race has just begun and there are many chances to come back If you try your best and don't give up. In particular on a track full of Newbes, even if it's a short run race. But with quitting the game, if you feel uncomfortable, you will never learn an unknown track.

[Honey]

yes it's true! many times when i see it's impossible to get an almost clean start (especially with fox) i leave all pass at start or i start from pits, i wait 20 seconds for the crash at first corner to be completed ( :) ) and i start my race, usually i finish in the first 3 positions...and i'm only an average racer...

what also many experienced racers lack is patience and learn how to prepare a pass and how to be passed...i only play lfs on weekends and everytime is a carnage, but once each 2 months i find a race where for few laps i can fight against a cool-clean racer and we pas each other like IRL without touch as if we were in REAL CARS...well after that the two of us are so happy that we forget all the carnage of all days...that "perfect race" each 2 months is why i keep playing LFS...the real spirit of races...to fight against all the odds and win, or simply find a good fight even for 8th position...that's what online races should always be, but it's so rare... :(

[DasKlee]

i do host in S1 mode from time to time, allowing all cars up to the LX4 with FE1/FE2, BL1/BL2, SO1/SO2 allowed - those were the tracks, i had the most fun in quick races

so if some of you want to race some road cars that won'T be ruined by the FO8 people joining, do check the S1 mode from time to time as well ;)

(not running at the moment though)

[Hoellsen]

You could also just do that in S2 mode and just disallow the FO8, ever thought of that? ;)

[Fragmatic]

I occasionally run a server called "Streetcar Shootout" with yup, you guessed it, just streetcars.

Makes for some great racing, especially around westhill.

[DasKlee]

You could also just do that in S2 mode and just disallow the FO8, ever thought of that? ;)

yes - and i did it before - but except for the UF1, all cars are S1 content

and if we use the fact. that you don'T have to buy S2 if you own S1 and still get the new features to promote LfS, then we should at least keep the S1 part of the game playable - which isn'T the case at the moment. the last 3 or 4 times i took a look at the S1 mode, there weren't any public servers available, just some eastern european private servers (russia and hungary)

that's why i think we shouldn't forget the S1 drivers - or we should get rid of the possibility to buy S1 licenses

the way it is right now, S1 is dead

[CHR20000]

...tryed to drive KY2 with RAC/FZ5/LX6 and WE1 with FXO recently, and it was quite a fun...


as long, the gtr cars dont get knobbly tires, go crossing with street cars.

[Gimpster]

I run the Seattle server and generally have those cars disabled on the server. Last night we have between 3-8 people on the server all night running MRTs, FZ 50s, GTs, etc. We ran the cadet track at Aston, but spent most of our time on less used tracks like Westhill (and Westhill in the FZ 50 is a blast!).


I think I found a new home.

A fellow Puget Sounder.

[Sunday Driver]

If you have installed the 0.5p patch you get advanced filter options in the server menue. Among Others you can choose a preseted filter combo called "TBO". Then you get a list about 15 servers. Most servers are empty, but if we want some racing with the demo cars, UF1, FXO, LX4 and the RB4 cars, we should start pouplating these servers. Or look at S1 servers if DasKlee is running his S1 server.

You might have to download and install the 0.5p patch in order to get these filter options, even if you installed the S2 a few days ago.

[B2B@300]

Hi peops, I feel the same so have done something about it :)
I've rented a server (US based) and have set it for road car racing.. Its currently set for XFG and XRG with tracks selectable by guests, its only a 10 slot server at the moment but should give lag free play for most countries around the world..
Its called RoadCarRacing .. hope to see you there sometime :)

[mr_x]

i was looking for a server running AS Cadet tonight with UF1 or GTI as i prefer the closeness of the racing on that track with the cars (and its usually the only combination i win in, but thats another story ;) ) to my complete suprise there was no servers running AS Cadet at all!

[Bob Smith]

I just hope people will turn up. I was running my server earlier today (not something I do often - MRNL #3 btw), with TBO cars around Westhill, not a single joiner in an hour, after which I got bored and went out (yes, outdoors).

[B2B@300]

not a single joiner in an hour, after which I got bored and went out (yes, outdoors).

LOL yes I go outdoors every now and again also :P
Have had it up for about 36 hrs so far and have only been able to be on it myself for about 3hrs on 2 occassions.. both times it was empty when i joined but within 5 - 10 minutes some others joined and we had some good times.. seems people are reluctent to join a server when theres only 1 other in there, but as soon as theres 2 or 3 everyone starts to join, anyway hopefully as more people notice its there it will be made use of..

[Sunday Driver]

As long as nobody or only 1 driver is playing on a certain server, it takes ages until someone else joins in. But as soon as their are 4-6 players, many others step in. Yesterday in the morning (CET) many people jumped on the same server until it crashed. But after the server was down, the 12-16 players didn't come together on another server again. :shrug:

When I'm joining a server as 1st player I'm able to select a certain track and add up to 2 AI drivers as pace maker if possible. (I hate it to drive alone.) But after the 3-4 drivers join in they start complaining about the AI. How can you remove AI as soon as there are enough human players?

[tailing]

There might be a quicker way but you can just end the race and then remove them from the racelist.

[ColeusRattus]

Can't you votekick them?

[Bob Smith]

Can't you votekick them?
LOL. If there were ever a driver cleanliness rating based on number of kicks, the AI might get their licensed removed :p.

[Sunday Driver]

No, unfortunatly you cant vote AI to kick. If there are more than 1 player on a server you also can't go back to the race menue in order to remove the AI from the race list, at least if you have no server rights.

I would like to search the forum about "AI" also in other questions, but it isn't accepted, because the term is with 2 letters too short. :tilt:

[B2B@300]

I would like to search the forum about "AI" also in other questions, but it isn't accepted, because the term is with 2 letters too short. :tilt:

Try more refined searches, such as "AI driver" or "AI car" inverted commas included when you search :)

[operator0]

Here's my observations. Back when S1 first came out, everyone was racing the TBO4 cars almost exclusively. Then the Christmas Developers Gift came out (about 6 months after the S1 release) with the release of the MRT. Nearly all the servers switched to the MRT. The MRT was then raced for six to nine months, almost exclusively. Then it switched back to the TBO cars for awhile. Then the GT/GTI cars and so on and so forth.

People will get tired of racing the open wheeled/GTR cars eventualy and you will see more servers switch to "other" cars. What we are seeing today is nothing new. As time passes you will see a better mix of populated servers if history is any indicator. Just be patient.

[Cue-Ball]

I'm one of the guys that prefers the road cars to the full-out race cars. The races are a lot closer, there seem to be fewer wrecks, and the cars are more "fun" to drive, instead of just being demanding.

I run a server during some weeknights and most weekends (USA - Seattle). This past weekend I setup my server with all road cars and some of the lesser used courses. I set it up to automatically change tracks/cars after 5 races had been completed.

The first track/car combo was Blackwood with the GT Turbo. Nobody joined. I raced 5 races against the AI (plus a bunch of extra laps, and some laps with ramps enabled) and nobody joined.

The second track/car combo I tried was the MRT on Aston. Again, I drove 5 races against 2 AI cars and nobody else joined.

The third track/car combo I tried was the FZ 50 on Westhill. I had about three people join. Of those three, one stuck around for about 4 races or so until I finally decided to go to bed. The other two stayed for a few races, then complained that the car was too heavy, it didn't stop quick enough, etc., etc.

So, despite posts like this it appears that people who want to drive road cars like me are in the minority. While I was racing alone all night, there were drift and F08 servers that were packed with people. <shrug>

Anyway, I plan to keep my server running mostly road cars with a few FOX and GTR races sprinkled throughout (no F08 though). Hopefully those races will attract some people who will be willing to stick around for the "slow car" races.

[farcar]

Maybe the fact that your changing tracks all the time is hurting??
I'd guess most people don't know every track in the came well enogh to race competitively there.
If I see a server with a track I don't know, I'll have a good 20 min offline practice before I join.
So, if the tracks were changing all the time, some people might be put off.

I also elive in the theory someone mentioned earlier about the 'snowball effect' with people joining a server. i.e. No-one will join if there are only 1 or 2 people racing, but if you can get 5 or 6 on it, the masses will arrive very quickly.

Good luck with your server and I hope more people join soon!

[B2B@300]

Hi Cu-Ball :) Im on nightshift here in Aus at the moment so if I see you in your server I'll join :) as I probably am online around the same time as your evening at the moment ...

P.s. I had a blast yesterday doing a 40 lap race, and found that you dont have to be that familar with a track in a 40 lapper cause most drive a little more cautiously at the start so you can ease into it :) there was only 4 of us that started the race (with no mid race join) but I still found it much more enjoyable than many shorter races :P there's nothing like the feeling of pitting your wit against other human drivers in longer battles - fuel and tyre wear become much more important factors and even if you drop behind at time you have ample opportunity to fight your way back - whish there was more of these longer adhoc races about too :P

[Cue-Ball]

Maybe the fact that your changing tracks all the time is hurting??Well, the only way someone would know the server was changing tracks would be for them to constantly watch the server's listing. There's no way to know that the server is changing tracks without monitoring it fairly closely. Plus, it's not like the tracks were switching every 5 minutes. I run each track for 5 races of 5 laps each (more for the shorter tracks). Figure 1:30 per lap on blackwood. Multiply by 5 laps. Multiply by 5 races. Then add 5 minutes for restarting time (1 minute between races) and you've got about 45 minutes on that track, minimum. That's assuming no big crashes, no restarts, etc. Every other time I've been on a server people run for about an hour and then beg for the track to be changed. I thought this would be a good pre-emptive maneuver. :shrug:


I'd guess most people don't know every track in the came well enogh to race competitively there.
I'd agree with you there, but I was running Blackwood and Aston. The first is the track that comes with the demo so EVERYONE knows it. The second is one of the most popular tracks. The only time people joined was on Westhill, which seems to be not popular at all compared to the others.

I also elive in the theory someone mentioned earlier about the 'snowball effect' with people joining a server. i.e. No-one will join if there are only 1 or 2 people racing, but if you can get 5 or 6 on it, the masses will arrive very quickly.
Yeah, I know how it is. I was hoping that having two AI in there would show 3 drivers on the track and would get people to join. But, that apparently doesn't work. Even when I had 6 people on Westhill (including two AI) the server never filled up.

Maybe the problem is that my server is in the US and there aren't that many non-oval drivers in the US? I dunno.

[Cue-Ball]

I had a blast yesterday doing a 40 lap race, and found that you dont have to be that familar with a track in a 40 lapper cause most drive a little more cautiously at the start so you can ease into it :) there was only 4 of us that started the race (with no mid race join) but I still found it much more enjoyable than many shorter races :P

Maybe I'll throw a couple of longer races into the mix as well. I would prefer to leave mid-race join turned on though. I think I saw you guys on last night but didn't want to wait half an hour for the race to end before I could join in. Even if I were 12 laps behind, I'd rather get in some practice and do something rather than sit and spectate until the current race is over.

Hope to see you online. :)

[Bob Smith]

Oh yeah, we're in the minority, and to make matters worse, we're probably all playing at different times. Add to that, that I find racing on my own gets boring quite quickly, so unless I'm prepared to wait I'll tend to not join empty servers. If there's a couple of people in though that's usually enough to tempt me.

[Sunday Driver]

Well, the only way someone would know the server was changing tracks would be for them to constantly watch the server's listing. There's no way to know that the server is changing tracks without monitoring it fairly closely.

Can't you call your server during setting up "Cue-Ball's Track Rotation" or something like that?

I think the track rotation is a good feature. Perhaps 3 races with 10 laps with 1 pit stop would be a good idea too + about 20-30 minutes qualifying by entering a new track. So if somone stumbels into a race, even if it's at lap 4-6 he is already well prepared for the next race if he roughly knows a track.

But there should be no car rotation. Only TBOs as group and no switching to complete different cars like FOX, MRT or GTs. If you're comming to a unknown track and you have also to change the car to one you can't handle, that's too much.

[farcar]

Yeah the servers allowing all cars are begining to grate on me.

I've been lapping the SO Town course offline in the GTI (yes, the GTI!) and found it to be a bucket of fun.
I found a server online using this course and allowing all cars. I joined, closing my eyes in hope that overyone one using road cars.

Everone was in a FOX or an FO8. Sigh.

If anyone runs a GTI server on SO Town when I'm online, I'll be there in a flash. The racing would be awesome.

[Bob Smith]

Perhaps we should all arrange a time to have a mass take over of one of the all cars server, the racing would be so close the FO8s would never be able to squeeze past. :D

[Cue-Ball]

Perhaps we should all arrange a time to have a mass take over of one of the all cars server, the racing would be so close the FO8s would never be able to squeeze past. :D

How many side-by-side UF1s does it take to completely block the banking at Kyoto? ;)

[REDROCKS]

I am willing to host a server for the slower cars. I like driving the XF GT1 car since it is similar to my daily driver/real world track car. I have a decent second computer and a good broadband connection, and if the server didn't have to draw the graphics I think it would work fine. However, I am new to LFS and would need some help getting it set up. I would also like to participate in, or maybe host, a league that races these street cars for the North American time zones (I am in Colorado.) I believe there will always be a need for a server/league for the slower cars in order to attract new drivers. One of the things I noticed immediately when going online was that I had no place to race online against other beginners.