Your opinion about Patch V sounds? [Archive]

Greboth

22nd December 2006, 22:56

The LX6 sounds great. I've not followed the technicalities and I'll take everyone's word that its a step in the right direction, but... the XFG for instance sounds awful. I feel really disconnected while driving it. Why are the sounds so muffled on some cars? Thicker carpets in the footwells?

As i said in the post above i really like that in the road cars the sounds are muffled. If you think when you are in a car in real life then the engine noise is muffled by the sound deadening, carpets etc which if the road cars in lfs are excatly that road cars used on a track then the sound would be muffled. If you take out the gtr's for example the sounds are louder, you can hear the gear change clunks (clunk is a the technical term :D ) and engine more clearly.

Edit: Also i think everyone was used to the old sound so in a couple of weeks alot of people will be used to the new sounds and thent he old sounds will be weird.

Hyperactive

22nd December 2006, 23:09

A step to the right direction. Still sounds bad, just different than it used to. I'm using the U30 sounds simply because I'm used to them. Some of the cars sound strange, odd and funny instead of engine. I'm not really sure what kind of animals were used this time...

I really really hope that Scawen works more with the sounds for the next patch.

Still :thumb: for the hard work.

Blowtus

22nd December 2006, 23:12

a vague step in the right direction. sound is still shoddy. gear clicks and whine is the only substantial improvement imho.

Tweaker

22nd December 2006, 23:29

Not a big difference in my opinion.

Many cars sound 'ok', some are just completely awful. Most people have said they don't like the muffling, but I can live with it, and am not bugged by it anymore. It is just the SOUND of the cars that are terrible to begin with. The FZR lacks so much for what it should truly sound like, and a lot of other cars are very poorly done. It just needs more time. I am sure they will get better and better :)

JTbo

22nd December 2006, 23:35

I voted for Definitely an improvement, a step to right direction.

TagForce

22nd December 2006, 23:36

a vague step in the right direction. sound is still shoddy. gear clicks and whine is the only substantial improvement imho.

Yes, but when I look at the big picture, then it doesn't actually sound half bad. The stuff you hear in LFS is maybe a fifth of the stuff that you hear in a real car driven at high speeds and near the limit. You can hear the suspension working, bodywork cracking, stones hitting, engine hopping, etc, etc. All that isn't modeled in LFS at the moment. If you add all those noises to the sounds we have, it's actually bloody well done.

Only point of criticism I have with the engine sounds at the moment is that they are dampened (muffled, if you wish) wrongly, although it's better than the first sound update was. In a real car, as the revs go up, the sound changes, and when frequencies change, so do the dampening capabilities of certain substances on that sound. In a real car, the bass sound we have now would get dampened out way more at the higher revs, while the higher frequency ranges would get amplified because they pass metals more easily. This is what gives an engine it's roar when it goes into high revs, or scream if it revs really high. Although there's definitely more roar in the bigger engines now, it's not quite there yet.

Still a huge improvement over the originals.

nihil

22nd December 2006, 23:37

If you think when you are in a car in real life then the engine noise is muffled by the sound deadening, carpets etc

Yeah, I realise that, but I'm not in a real car and the sound is one of those things that gives me feedback in the absence of 'real' feel. Maybe if I get some headphones it'd improve, but this 'smudgy' sound is just annoying... Besides I don't 'cruise' in LFS - I'd like the option to rip those useless carpets out of my XFG and save a bit of weight! :)

Edit: Also i think everyone was used to the old sound so in a couple of weeks alot of people will be used to the new sounds and thent he old sounds will be weird.

Possibly - but the 'old' sounds are only a week or two old to me! :)

r4ptor

22nd December 2006, 23:45

Although I DO like the technical aspect of the new sounds, I don't like the the practical aspect of it.. I bet I will get tired faster because of the dull sounds, and have to spend quiet some time to get adjusted to them, as they are currently slowing me down :(

I don't use FFB and tire sounds are dimmed - so my reaction times are affected.. *whine*

StanleyCarter

23rd December 2006, 00:04

I think the sounds are great, they provided me with greater feedback then ever, and wow does the LX6 sounded awesome!

I voted for the 2nd option, it's definitely going at the right direction.

Gabkicks

23rd December 2006, 00:08

deffinatly going in the right direction :)
still, the suzuki swift jwrc car sounds more powerfull than the XRR. :p so... there is obviously room for improvement.

DodgeRacer

23rd December 2006, 00:09

Definatly in the right direction, the race cars just need way more raspyness though, its like the explosions have merged into a steady stream rather than pistsons firing...they actually sound like a rotary engine

Boris Lozac

23rd December 2006, 00:12

Have anyone else noticed those sounds when you go near another car, that ratatatatatatata sound? It sounds so great!

Dethred

23rd December 2006, 00:24

I would have said slightly better but after several patches, and its on S2, the sounds should be better than Netkar namie, Racer, and other FREE games.

The gear whine sounds like the turbo but continually increases its pitch. I just asked my brother to listen to the sounds from outside my room and he could barely tell they were from a car.

For the love of God, if there is not going to be any feel in a FF steering wheel when the car is bouncy, please make sounds for the rumble strips. Also, if this is the best that can be done with the sounds, which are a critical part of the simulation experience, please change to the traditional sound sampling. There is no point in making all of us wait years to hear decent sounds while having to deal with these synthetic failures.

troy

23rd December 2006, 00:25

voted also for the step into the right direction
try the RAC for example that thing sounds like hell of a beast now ^^
on some other cars i noticed myself switching outside now and then
just to hear those great sounds this thing produces outside of my car

like somebody earlier stated maybe a "open windows" (the cars windows) button
should be implemented that way we would have a realistic option to get rid of the muffling

also the bf1 and fo8 are definatly not there yet they should sound a bit more rough and loud

Jonas8431

23rd December 2006, 00:25

I like all ones :thumb:

check this out, that sound is the most real of the world... LOL, its a pit stop of F1 car CLICK HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl9KvwEDkYU&mode=related&search=) :D

Maelstrom

23rd December 2006, 00:57

Globally it's better but there's still a lot of work to do.
The BF1's sound is awful!

XCNuse

23rd December 2006, 01:28

are you kidding? it sounds more like an F1 now than it ever has

BrandonAGr

23rd December 2006, 02:00

I think the bf1 sounds much better, but the fzr/fxr cars remind me of a jet engine

Blowtus

23rd December 2006, 02:05

Yes, but when I look at the big picture, then it doesn't actually sound half bad. The stuff you hear in LFS is maybe a fifth of the stuff that you hear in a real car driven at high speeds and near the limit.

I disagree. Decent engine sounds alone add massively to the immersion - I'd suggest they're about 80% of the sound that's important. CSR adds so much to my playing experience, still.

DeKo

23rd December 2006, 02:08

the BF1 is an amazing sound, its just a bit muffled.

any sound improvements are good, building up a good base to get decent sounds. I cant really comment on all of them, i havent actually listened intently to them, its just more of a "hmm thats different, cool" and then forget about it and concentrate on getting that PB. plus i usually listen to music while racing

NONo443

23rd December 2006, 03:28

Boris Lozac

23rd December 2006, 04:09

I just played around with the other cars, and i gotta say, that the cars gain more character now, not the other way around. There is really a noticable difference beatween cars.. They were all angry bees before, but now they certainly have that engine character.
The one's i especially liked are LX4, LX6, RA(it is awesome), FXR, FOX, XFR...
I didn't like the XRT and FZ5, especially that whine in the XRT.. it was to electrical and artificial...
BUT, it is a definatelly, and i mean a definatelly step in the right direction!

r4ptor

23rd December 2006, 05:19

I disagree. Decent engine sounds alone add massively to the immersion - I'd suggest they're about 80% of the sound that's important. CSR adds so much to my playing experience, still.

I second that.

Pinto_PT

23rd December 2006, 05:31

XCNuse

23rd December 2006, 05:35

last time i checked.. my car is much quieter inside than it is outside

Ball Bearing Turbo

23rd December 2006, 06:27

last time i checked.. my car is much quieter inside than it is outside:nod:
Strange, so is mine.. Perhaps it's universal :scratchch

BrandonAGr

23rd December 2006, 06:40

last time i checked.. my car is much quieter inside than it is outside

I always have the windows down, so it's actually louder inside my car than it is outside(with the wind noise added in)

joen

23rd December 2006, 07:13

Definitely a good step in the right direction.
Scawen had already said some time ago that the development of the sound engine is very complex and it will take a lot of time to get it where he wants it to be. So what has been done in a relatively short time is quite impressive.
What's most important is that now there's a good base to start improving from.
Most of the cars have really improved imo, for example the FOX and the LX's. The FXR is ok but should be more brutal I think. The same goes for the FZR.
The BF1 lacks the most, but that's probably the most difficult car since it pretty much has the most distinctive sound.
I think the most important thing is trying to make them sound less synthetic.
I didn't like the new sounds at all when they were first introduced in U32 because they all sounded the same, but within a couple of more test patches this has improved big time.

pie

23rd December 2006, 07:24

TagForce

23rd December 2006, 08:27

:nod:
Strange, so is mine.. Perhaps it's universal :scratchch

Nope, mine isn't. But then, I have no insulation whatsoever in my car.
Of course, the sound inside is a much deeper drone, much like LFS has, and completely unlike the sound you hear on the outside.

Anathema

23rd December 2006, 08:36

The BF1 sounds like a vacuum cleaner...:(

ORION

23rd December 2006, 09:02

Imo the sounds are not really better compared to the U patch, but different. I guess they are more realistic, but sounding a bit "flat" / without punch.

oDii

23rd December 2006, 09:27

Definately a step in the right direction, and quite enjoyable to drive something that sounds like a boyracer mobile... now to get the sounds to a GTR2 level! :)

My one complaint would be the turbocharged four bangers that do sound good and like turbocharged fours; except they have somewhat of a boxer signature about them (think Subaru WRX) with the throbbing.

AndRand

23rd December 2006, 10:45

well, after an evening with new patch my opinion has changed a bit. Still I think some cars sound better now (FXR XFR), some worse. I mentioned it in patch V thread - I think they lack of lowmid analogue distortion a bit making it beefie and fiddling with the equalizer would make big difference as engine's sounds are too midtonish.

But there are 2 things that bother me - first I think all the transmission lacks of inertia - it gives a lot of input but imho it is too nervous, there are masses revolving and they cant ract so quickly to every slip on the curb.

Second thing - more important is this is the step in direction of crossroads I think. New gearwhine sounds feel samplish and so the overall sound - so it is either way of getting all synthesized (hoping to have great feedback not compromising quality) or go in sample direction (having rich sound in some frequencies but feeling sooo plastic in not the proper ones).

It is not Svewen's idea to have open source sounds so everybody could download hiquality sounds like hires textures, I think (in spite of Eric's job on lows, which is truly demanding, is ireally impressive). And most of us here want to have LFS as good as possible out of the box certainly. Maybe it is an idea to invite/contract a sound specialist?:duck:

VALE 46

23rd December 2006, 11:11

I think most of the cars sound better, but the BF1 is just terrible, it sounds so weak and pathetic its unbelievable. Just listen to the clip comparing the BF1, and a clip from the Alonso in helmet cam on you tube. I also want to point out that in the real life clip, there is less volume difference between when the car is accelerating and when its not, in LFS the car volume goes really quite when you are braking and the gear shift sounds seem totally wrong.

GianniC

23rd December 2006, 11:18

No big difference, some cars are better, some worse. - +1

There is an improvement but just to compare the sounds from LFS to other "sims" I downloaded a demo of GPL and borrowed a copy of GTR 2.
Then I must say: devs, great work and keep going but please, keep working on the sound... this job isn't done and can not be removed from the checklist!

I don't know much of all that technical stuff, which was in the test patchforum even stranger to me then Latin (as mather of speaking) but I do hear a difference between LFS and (for example) GTR. I much more prefer LFS, I think everyone can second that I'm a hardcore LFS player trying to promote it as much as I can with friends, ... but something is still missing in the sounds. Use a (e.g) a 5.1 soundblaster system with several boxes, extra subwoofer and set the volume on a "very reasonable" level, or just try a small headphone: I think nobody here can say in complete honesty that the sound you hear is realistic and worthy enough for LFS.

Don't want to spoil the Xmas fun or the release of Patch V, which is very good work (all those fixes!) but as I said: don't remove the sound from the checklist: it is one of the main elements which makes a sim realistic, and we need (more) improvement on that in LFS.

joen

23rd December 2006, 11:23

Don't worry about the sounds staying like this forever. The sounds are final for Patch V but they're not finished.

SchneeFee

23rd December 2006, 11:45

I like them all very much except the Sauber Engine.

Theafro

23rd December 2006, 11:54

All we need now is Load-based gear whine, and Induction noise. thanks Scavier :D

Slaughterofthesoul

23rd December 2006, 12:08

Na the new sounds sound like some super train sim game. No joy in this new version:(

alland44

23rd December 2006, 13:18

I disagree. Decent engine sounds alone add massively to the immersion - I'd suggest they're about 80% of the sound that's important. CSR adds so much to my playing experience, still.

If sound is 80% - Then do this little test.

Blindfold yourself, and take the car around So Classic, for three laps :)

Then you come back, and telle us the new percentage :)

Breizh

23rd December 2006, 13:18

4eyeJoe, that vette's engine sounded real to you because you're using a button instead of an axis for the gas pedal.

lococost

23rd December 2006, 13:25

I think the sounds are too clean. For example, most engine sounds are so loud, the human ear will register it with a distortion-like effect.
Specially sitting in the car would blow your ears and can never have such a nice and clean sound.

I've made a quick F1 engine-sound test using some simple 'soft clipping' wich IMHO sounds way better already.

Judge for yourselves:

http://www.e-phonic.com/mp3/original.mp3
http://www.e-phonic.com/mp3/processed.mp3

This should be easy to implement... you can get the C++ sourcecode for this effect from me! :)

Cheers,
PJ
:thumb:

I totally agree, had the same suggestion before patch V but felt like I was being ridiculed because of making that suggestion...

That processed sample actually sounds a bit like the real deal.

I had some opinions from people who mostly play RF. They were negative, things like: 'sounds like you're driving with 2 tin cans on your ears' 'F1 sounds like a vacuum cleaner'.

I've allways been supportive of LFS, its still the best racing sim, but this sound issue is really getting to me.

alland44

23rd December 2006, 13:26

Don't want to spoil the Xmas fun or the release of Patch V, which is very good work (all those fixes!) but as I said: don't remove the sound from the checklist: it is one of the main elements which makes a sim realistic, and we need (more) improvement on that in LFS.

How many people, know the sounds the racers really hears, wearing a helmet, inside a racecar !?

I know how it sounds from the outside, when cars is passing the crowd.
Do you know how it should sound, inside a racecar Gianni C ??

Vain

23rd December 2006, 13:41

@alland44: Yes, there are quite a lot people here who know how a racecar sounds when you drive it, because we drove a racecar as a driver. But still: LFS really sucks. There is no other term to describe it. LFS's diffs suck, LFS's aero sucks, LFS's sound sucks, LFS's damage system sucks. But it's the best sim we have. No other sim comes close.

Ontopic: I'm using an equalizer to get rid of that strange dampened feel to the sounds. That works pretty well and now I like it a lot. Still far away from reality, but a tiny bit closer than the old sounds.
(I especially like the FZ 50. Nice sound. :tilt: )

Vain

Blowtus

23rd December 2006, 13:45

How many people, know the sounds the racers really hears, wearing a helmet, inside a racecar !?

I know how it sounds from the outside, when cars is passing the crowd.
Do you know how it should sound, inside a racecar Gianni C ??

Pretty sure you can add Scawen to the list of those who don't know, based on what he's said in the past.

Helmets muffle sound, but they don't substantially change the character of it.

KiDCoDEa

23rd December 2006, 13:49

sinbad

23rd December 2006, 13:54

How many people, know the sounds the racers really hears, wearing a helmet, inside a racecar !?

I know how it sounds from the outside, when cars is passing the crowd.
Do you know how it should sound, inside a racecar Gianni C ??

So people who say it's good know what they're talking about, but people who say it's not so good don't know what they're talking about? I've seen a fair bit of that kind of attitude on these forums in the past.

It's like if I were to post this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvVa3WOUst0 , and state that the BF1 sounds NOTHING like that. No doubt someone with no more actual close-up experience would come along and tell me "That's not a sauber-bmw engine, that microphone could be crap, that's low quality recording, blah blah blah, the BF1 sounds perfect".

BF1 and FO8 sounds are awful, that's my opinion. Value it as little as you want, but don't tell me I can't have a negative opinion because I don't drive an F1 car, whereas you can because, unlike me, you like the sounds (I'm assuming you don't drive an F1 car btw).

KiDCoDEa

23rd December 2006, 14:14

How many people, know the sounds the racers really hears, wearing a helmet

how many people are gonna keep repeating sounds in lfs , try to simulate what u hear when wearing a helmet? sound in lfs are helmet-free.
u want helmet sensation? wear one irl.

jamesgp2viper

23rd December 2006, 14:37

If the engine exhaust sounds had overdrive distortion applied to them, they would sound almost perfect IMO.

deggis

23rd December 2006, 14:53

Also, if this is the best that can be done with the sounds, which are a critical part of the simulation experience, please change to the traditional sound sampling. There is no point in making all of us wait years to hear decent sounds while having to deal with these synthetic failures.
Why does the best game have the worst sounds? I tried the GT Legends Demo, and drove the Vette. That sounded real. LFS sounds like a 1980s arcade game. I am very disapointed. I drive the Fox the most and it sounds like crap. Sorry to be so negative but, LFS, get REAL. :(
You both, look at my signature.

In my opinion this is a step in the right direction but not that big difference. It's not drastically different. If it sounded like Todd's sound engine (http://www.performancesimulations.com/files/EngineSimAudioComparison.wmv) it would be a great improvement. It still "sounds like LFS", it's just slightly different. LX6 and FOX sounds good tho. I'm still curious why make these small additions now with the restrictions of a compatible patch if Scawen is planning to really "remake" the sound in the future.

For these "patch V sounds suck" threads you can only blame the one who decided to put "sound improvements" with capital letters on the front page. That just gives completely wrong picture for players that haven't been playing LFS for months.

RichardTowler

23rd December 2006, 14:57

Breizh

23rd December 2006, 15:08

Yeah, Scawen's been deaf for the last weeks to his friends and family and/or self-conscience :razz:

The sound mechanics development for patch V just happened at the "wrong time".

Flycantbird

23rd December 2006, 15:51

I think this poll would be interesting

PATCH V was intended to provide:

* The most incredible sound package ever available for any game

* The solution to all the woes of LFS sounds.

* A number of minor fixes and some minor sound enhancements

* Don't care, Mom says I'm precious and I can have anything I
want, whenever I want it.

Hyperactive

23rd December 2006, 15:56

I think the mechincal side behind the sound update is promising, and some of the cars are slightly improved (the porsche) but I cannot understand how anyone in there right mind would release the BF1 sounding as it does, unless they are deaf of course.
I was actually quite shocked when I heard the BF1 in the U31 (?) for the first time. I was just mouth open, staring into emptyness. Those U31 sounds should have never been published.

The strangest thing for is that before the latest patch people were saying that the sound is bad but it at least has those slight nyances and stuff what is so peculiar for those engine. Now the sounds are completely different (still as bad imho) and people are saying the same thing. Lots of potential, great step to right direction...

GianniC

23rd December 2006, 16:05

So people who say it's good know what they're talking about, but people who say it's not so good don't know what they're talking about? I've seen a fair bit of that kind of attitude on these forums in the past.

As Sinbad nicely stated in his reaction on what Alland44 said, beside being in a kart with a helmet on I have not a single clue how e.g a F1 or any other racing car sounds in real life. I do know what I hear in LFS and I do can compare that with what I've seen on tv, ... And based upon those things I conclude that the sound of the LFS cars aren't what they are supposed to be. Of course, as you also can notice here: many people have a different and own opionion of 'how it should be'. There is a concensus needed for that, there will always be people who like the final LFS S2 sounds and people who don't.

But as a general LFS lover and racer I just express my "worries" about the sound as it is atm, isn't that what I'm supposed to do as a loyal player ??!
I really dislike it that I can't contribute more due to a lack of technical knowledge but I want to let those people who know the 'know how' and technical terms see that a different opinion then "ye good work devs, very good" is also present. And hoping on that way, that those people go start working and bring us sounds who might help the devs or give them an idea of what we expect as community, real life racers, racing audience, ... from the devs and what we expect our beloved sim to look/sound like.

All I can say more is: community now it's time to work some in these hollidays and let the devs rest, come up with e.g an united collection of how we want the sound to be from every single LFS car. After the hollidays the devs have something to work with: ok the XFG, the community has said this is how a "real XFG" would sound like and how it should be ingame, ..... With that way of working it will demand time and very good organisation (specially from the community side), but like that we will get what we want ànd how it would sound in a racing simulation !

Breizh

23rd December 2006, 16:20

Now the sounds are completely different (still as bad imho) and people are saying the same thing. Lots of potential, great step to right direction...
To be fair, the next revision of the sounds will have to be an undeniable improvement in every reasonable aspect (aesthetics, functionality, accuracy...), no less.

The cars don't have to sound like particular real cars, except the replicas, MRT, RAC, BF1. They only have to actually sound like what they are, i.e. the LX6 like an inline 6 with relatively little plumbing, not like a liter motorbike v-twin.

The final version of this sound engine revision should be the only intermediate version of the sounds before S3, right? It's surely worth the short wait.

VIP

23rd December 2006, 16:42

All I can say more is: community now it's time to work some in these hollidays and let the devs rest, come up with e.g an united collection of how we want the sound to be from every single LFS car. After the hollidays the devs have something to work with: ok the XFG, the community has said this is how a "real XFG" would sound like and how it should be ingame, ..... With that way of working it will demand time and very good organisation (specially from the community side), but like that we will get what we want ànd how it would sound in a racing simulation !

That's a very good idea, in my opinion.

And here's a suggestion of an engine sound for the F-3 car in the game (onboard, Macau 2006):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6XmNYKIrS8

deggis

23rd December 2006, 17:02

That's a very good idea, in my opinion.

And here's a suggestion of an engine sound for the F-3 car in the game (onboard, Macau 2006):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6XmNYKIrS8

I wouldn't want to FOX to sound like that... because the vid has very crappy sound quality :)

M@xB00st

23rd December 2006, 17:19

Hi all,

first of all...thx for patch v :thumb:

Unfortunately this patch made things worse for me.

1. My controls have gone, I mean I have constant throttle and FF doesn't work anymore. I tried to change it over the menu but couldn't fix it. :really:

2. sounds aren't right...in-game sounds are like my pc hung up.

Did anybody experience problems like that? :(

Could anybody help...racer in problems!!!!

greets
Max

Ramses

23rd December 2006, 17:24

I'm not really happy with them.

I'm getting more and more convinced there is some hardware issue involved though. I speak people on line that like it and I have spoken people that, like me, can't stand the sound for a second. It's simply unbearable and I can't believe this is the sound the more positive posters have spoken about.

It's hard to explain. It sounds like those old gaming halls you used to have in the 80's with their gambling machines and pinball machines. It's the modulations that seems to be the problem mostly. Driving away from a standstill sounds awkward. Blipping the trottle sounds like Space Invaders.

Guess AC'97 isn't the right way to go. Going back to the !Live again. See if that helps.

Bob Smith

23rd December 2006, 17:51

I think people will calm down a bit once they become more accustomed to the new engine sounds. There is more detail than before, most cars sound better (IMO) and only a few are worse. They sound more like engines than before though, which is definately good.

There's no point saying "Patch V sounds are crap". No more so than any other patch, so it's not really valid criticism. I suspect the sounds may have had more work if it wasn't so close to xmas, I suspect Scawen wanted to give us a bit of a gift, and also wants a break to relax with his family.

So let's be happy and see if patch W brings further improvements. :)

pasibrzuch

23rd December 2006, 17:53

Lol
Lol
?
I can't understand it, but "Quote yourself 2006 Award" goes to you omg, I can not breath :D:thumb:

Anyway, after test patches I was scary a bit. But now, new sounds are going towards "That's it!"

Gearbox whine still sounds like sopranos are cut off.
And there is lack of...something; when you kick the gas, gearbox in lfs is whining in chillout, while in some real gtrs', there's "weeweeweeweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" sound. Not what it is exactly. :shrug:

Hallen

23rd December 2006, 18:13

Personally, I like the new sounds better for the most part. I think they are lacking at the top end on most cars, but there is only so much you can do with speakers and sound generation.

I do have one comment, and maybe it was said before, but I just wanted to comment.

I think the biggest difference (other than the basic tones) between what we hear in the game and what we hear in the car is the environment.

The way I look at it, the sounds we hear are as if you were driving down the road and there was nothing there but the engine, or nothing there but the transmission, or the exhaust. You then take all those sounds and pipe them to your ears at the same time. You end up with a decent mix, but you are still hearing individual sounds.

In a real car of any type, the whole car, and especially the cabin on a tin top, act like a resonance chamber. Yes, the different structures within the car will muffle sounds, but they will also transmit vibrations throughout the car and what we end up hearing is different from what was originally produced. We end up hearing different sounds, but we also hear mixed sounds and tones that can't really be traced back to just one source. Just try to isolate a noise in your own car some time. What is generating that sound? It is very hard to tell sometimes, especially when you have a squeak or rattle or clunk. You might be able to tell it is coming from the back of the car, but maybe not. It is like a giant mixing chamber that alters sounds enough as to make it more of a symphony than a group of single instruments.
Put the exact same engine, exhaust, transmission, differential, wheels, tires and the same level of sound proofing into two different cars, lets say a XRG and XFG (in the real world) and the cars will sound different while you are in the car. The engine might sound exactly the same as a single component, but the end result in the car will be different.

I think that the team is on the right track for the sounds. More work will be done in the future. What we hear now is great, it is so much more communicative than other sims. It will get better and better as we move forward.

jenek

23rd December 2006, 18:57

Why is DumpValve gone? The old lovely pshhhhhh. Is it an improvment?

I like the other changes though.

JTbo

23rd December 2006, 19:37

Why is DumpValve gone? The old lovely pshhhhhh. Is it an improvment?

I like the other changes though.

Actually it is not, I thought that was, also I thought that turbo whine was gone, but it is not, for me reason was that I play sounds quite low volume and I had put some more bass from my stereo to compensate low bass of headphones. When I set volume to much louder I could hear much more different sounds from lfs and when I adjusted bass to 0 there was all turbo sounds too.

jayhawk

23rd December 2006, 19:46

I think this is a big improvement. Example is the UF1000, of all things. It sounds EXACTLY like a little turd of an engine would sound like, the way it revs up and down.

Suggestion to the people who said the new sounds suck: put on some high quality headphones, get the sound to a comfortable level, turn off the s***ty rave music you listen to whilst driving, and just immerse yourself with the sounds of any particular car. You hear all sorts of things that patch U never had. I think this is phenomonal.

NONo443

23rd December 2006, 21:10

[just a lfs noob's perspective] I think it is a step in the right direction, but I also feel that a good amount of the cars also lost some of their character thanks to the muffled sounds. I hate to sound like a ricer, but if we could have an option to muffle some of the sounds or not, I think that would be great.
[/noob perspective].

On second thought, my opinion has changed now that i've played the new patch, more than last night, and reading this thread a bit. I now am used to the sound being a bit more different than what it was, and feel that if it had more "distortion" (as someone in here mentioned that we do hear things in a distorted kind of way), it would be perfect.

George Kuyumji

23rd December 2006, 21:32

Some people should recognise that listening to a F1 car or any other Race car on TV or a Video sounds nothing like you do hear it as a spectator or as a driver. And its not just about the volume.

axus

23rd December 2006, 21:32

I think the mechincal side behind the sound update is promising, and some of the cars are slightly improved (the porsche) but I cannot understand how anyone in there right mind would release the BF1 sounding as it does, unless they are deaf of course.

Yeah, I found it fairly terrible too. I'm actually running the U35 .eng file for it as I find it a liiiiittle bit better but still not quite acceptable. I've attached that as well as a backup of the V .eng. I'm fairly sure that once Scawen has had his break he's going to continue in making all the cars sound as good as the Raceabout before continuing with other incompatible work. (Disclaimer: Don't take my words for fact. I'm just guessing. Doing so may have adverse effects on your health.) Leaving us with these slightly half baked sounds for a few months won't be that nice. :schwitz:I do find the new sounds much much much more informative though - they used to go flat on high revs before and the engine sound settled to a drone. The extra information, even in the fairly annoying sounding (IMO) LX4 (sadly my favourite car too... :shrug:) played a good part in me coping with wind much better in a league race earlier today. I could actually hear whether I had tail wind or head wind in the engine sound, so I also agree on the remark on these sounds showing promise for the future. :)

anbiddulph

23rd December 2006, 21:43

all the GTR cars are not loud and powerfull-sounding:(

XCNuse

23rd December 2006, 21:47

all the GTR cars are not loud
turning up the volume a notch or so for me solves that problem :)
no joke lol

VALE 46

23rd December 2006, 22:44

axus

23rd December 2006, 22:59

^ Yes, but in real life if an F1 car drives past you, thats the only thing you can hear, even when you try and speak nothing comes out 'cos its so loud. I bet in LFS you can still hear the road cars clearly even with a GTR car or the F1 sitting next to it revving like crazy ...

Yeah, but do you really want to adjust your volume every time you race? Because, obviously you want to be immersed etc. so you'll run LFS louder than anything around you, and that way you'll go deaf every time a BF1 drives past while you drive something else. Its a computer simulation flaw, and LFS probably has the best solution to the problem at the moment. :shrug:

drift_apprentice

23rd December 2006, 23:21

Apart from muffled sounds, ESPECIALLY tyre scrubbing sounds, everything else is very well done!!!

Please make the sounds more clear, like in patch U. Thanks!

tailing

24th December 2006, 02:20

I haven't played LFS for about six months now but was curious about what had been done to the sounds with the new patch. At first I was like 'wow, I can really see why a lot of people have always hated the sounds' but I think the LFS sounds always grow on me because they are informative in a way that samples can never be.
I think the road cars have had the most improvement and sound the most realistic at this point. The in-car muffling is as it should be and it seems as if the exhaust has had a bit of a tweak. The different road cars sound more unique now and closer to what the different configurations produce in the real world. Contrary to most people it seems I quite like the LX4 and the FOX, they remind me a lot of high revving four bangers with a big exhaust.
There are some times when the sounds are very convincing to me but others when it really does sound bad and like old 80's arcade games as some have mentioned. Every now and then watching the BF1 lap around City Town from the track cameras it would sound remarkably like the real thing due to the right combination of revs, echo etc. where other times it would almost sound laughable. This at least says to me that things are on the right track and with all the factors in the right place the synthesised engine can produce realistic sound.

All up I'd say a definate improvement and I look forward to more improvement in this area. I think atm it's still the most major area in need of improvement to raise the standard of LFS as a whole.

btw, imo anyone expecting a revolution in the sound engine just because the main page says 'sound improvements' obviously knows very little about LFS, it's sound engine and it's development.

MoonForce

24th December 2006, 02:56

patch v, i expected more than what it consists of (maybe cuz i had every testpatch, and every lil step since u)

i expected sum new graphics, more content, maybe a new car lol, like that Q -> S/T/U :( so what, maybe next time :D

i dont understand moaning bout the patch v sounds...

we saw a birth, the birth of the new sound sys. every born thing has to start living, has to grow and gettin older :) it learns to crouch, then to walk, ... one day it will be grown up and we are able to be with it all the time. :D

i personally liked f.ex. rac sound in q more than in v, but do i really? i maybe just like the roughness of q/u but v has more details. i first also moaned bout the sounds, but they are better than first feeling gives ya.

lets celeb xmas with our friends and family, n-joy autoupdater (wow lol sum more polygons per car or just driver/helmet would have make me happier) and the birth of the new soundsystem :D days will pass, patches will come, and we have the power to determine how the sounds will sound like in next patches :)

anyway, its all folks, merry xmas to all of you and a happy new year... cya :nod: :thumb:

Blowtus

24th December 2006, 04:57

Why are people saying this is a 'new' sound system? I don't recall seeing that mentioned anywhere from Scawen?? Isn't it just the old one with a few bits added / modified?

JTbo

24th December 2006, 05:04

Why are people saying this is a 'new' sound system? I don't recall seeing that mentioned anywhere from Scawen?? Isn't it just the old one with a few bits added / modified?

It can be ofcourse that you are not 'in', ie. you have been left outside from good stuff, fresh news and better people :D

Dethred

24th December 2006, 06:29

Rfactor: Sounds better
NFS (anything after 2): Sounds better
Netkar Namie: Sounds better
Netkar Pro: sounds better
Gran Turismo (1-4) sounds better.

Leonidae

24th December 2006, 07:00

it really is a step to right direction, but somehow, no matter how I change my sound setups, the BOV hiss is gone. Turbo car without BOV hiss is like an FF without understeer.:irked:

hanzime

24th December 2006, 09:29

some sounds in the good direction Other, like the BF1, are TERRIBLE !!!!!

My lawnmoyer makes a nicer sound !!!! It is like driving with model plane ..SOUND is REALLY BAD !!!!
for the rest of the patch .. Nice improvement..
To bad rewind is still noty an option in the replays

greetings Hanzi

MataGyula

24th December 2006, 09:37

C'mon guys, this is not the concert yet, it's just the band tuning their instruments :)
(i want to say that we'll get better sounds, just be patient x)

HugeF1

24th December 2006, 12:07

lol, nice analogy. The sounds are DEFINATELY a step in the right direction. A lot deeper and have a lot more "grunt" The gearbox whine is great, but some engines aren't quite there (F1 car). But I have every faith that it'll be sorted

axus

24th December 2006, 12:14

Nah, they're still busy making their instruments. ;)

blaze-WrX

24th December 2006, 12:38

but do the FXO,RB4 and the XRT have to sound alike?:shrug: ...FXO had that nice rumble when shifting into second after peeling out from first....i mean the BF1 and the LX6 sound a lot better...but ill miss that FXO :(

P.S:really: where is the dumpvalve sound?

Alles

24th December 2006, 12:39

sounds are ok, tho the old lx6 sound just rocked. I noticed one thing that all the sounds are not agressive enough.

Unomi

24th December 2006, 12:56

A big improvement from the old patch, but I find that the Engine sounds drown everything else out, I'm running everything on minimum volume and the Engine sounds are way too loud.

southamptonfc

24th December 2006, 13:18

the bf1 gear change is nice but the engine sound needs to be much rougher, the v8's are not harmonic at all, they just roar.

BWX232

24th December 2006, 20:49

Steep in the right direction but the muffled sounds give me a freaking headache. Just because in real life it is quieter inside of a car does not mean the inside of a car there is a pocket of the universe where no treble can exist. The sounds are not good enough to try to mimic reality where the inside of a car is more muffled than the outside of the car.. they just sound muffled and it is tiresome trying to make out the tire scrubbing and all the other high pitched noises that are canceled out by the overwhelmingly loud mid-bass peak that still exists even after U35 (the version that was the absolute worse of the test patches).. U36 sounds and beyond are better, but still have major flaws.

Overall it is getting better, you can especially hear that when you set your view to just barely OUTSIDE the car.. but sadly only chase view drivers will get to hear the good sounds. The rest of us who use the proper cockpit view are forced to listen to hugely sub-par sounds where almost all the treble is muffled out of the overall sounds.

I can see huge potential in these new sounds though, I just hope the end user is given more control to tune the sounds to match their own hearing/ speakers/sound subsystem in their PC. As it is LFS is still actually painful to listen to for any amount of time when driving in the cockpit view.

deggis

24th December 2006, 22:27

Rfactor: Sounds better
NFS (anything after 2): Sounds better
Netkar Namie: Sounds better
Netkar Pro: sounds better
Gran Turismo (1-4) sounds better.
LFS with CSR: sounds better

alland44

24th December 2006, 22:42

I saw somebody suggest an equalizer, so everyone could adjust the sound the way the feel.

I think this is a good idea.

Maby there could be a little more to this "sound editor" than an EQ, so one could adjust the ecco, and so on :)

I know I allready can do that, by "tuning" my soundcard, but then you have to shot it off, if you want to listen to music :)

And I Didn`t know, that the sound was "without helmet" - I read it here, som place, and believed it :) So if the sound is no helmet, i miss some treble in the sound :)

CSU1

24th December 2006, 23:17

I dunno if someone has mentioned how the FO8 sounds..Lmao!1! When I was is the track editor earlyer today someone connected and began to drive fo8 around, and from a distance it sounds like some kind of hyped up gremlin laughing his ass off going 150 mph! lol it's fu**ing funny sound, a bit like the real thing...you know the funny giggle sound that you hear sometimes on the 'suped' up road cars..v funny sound:)

XenoWolf

25th December 2006, 01:18

I love the hiss and pop when you hit the rev limiters... definately a cool detail.

ATC Quicksilver

25th December 2006, 03:45

Its a small step towards fire breathing beasts popping and crackling while shifting down for turn 1 at Aston Club with squeeling brakes and clunking gears. Compared to the previous sounds this is a step in the right direction, the next objective should be to make the engines scream rather than sing.

Dethred

25th December 2006, 04:48

LFS with CSR: sounds better

Thats why most of the sound packs are taken from other games? Its a great program, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather play a game that doesn't need heavy modding to be remotely enjoyable.

spdracer22

25th December 2006, 05:49

I think the sounds are getting better. No, it doesn't sound like I'm sitting in a real car, but it's getting better. You have to remember that these sounds are generated, not sampled. Most other games have sampled sounds. They drive a real car around at different rpms and record the sound, then replay them similar to CSR.

Also, you have to consider the gaming environment. If you have a really loud computer, crappy speakers, etc, the game is going to sound crappy. If you have a dead-quiet pc, a well setup room, and a good sound card and speakers that have been tuned to the room, the game is going to sound like what the devs want it to.

Things are better, and they'll keep getting better. The game is still at version 0.5, not 10.5...if not the most realistic looking or sounding, it's definitely the best driving. Look at what the devs have done so far, and just think what it'll be like 2 years from now...

Blowtus

25th December 2006, 09:48

Thats why most of the sound packs are taken from other games? Its a great program, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather play a game that doesn't need heavy modding to be remotely enjoyable.

Having the generated sounds with a sample overlay seems like one of the best / easiest ways of achieving both a good 'useability' and a good sound, to me.

deggis

25th December 2006, 12:50

Thats why most of the sound packs are taken from other games? Its a great program, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather play a game that doesn't need heavy modding to be remotely enjoyable.
And that's why you mentioned rFactor too... or do you then play it without any mods at all? :)

I bet most of the (popular) rFactor mods has also sounds stolen from several games. Who cares if they are stolen or not because they are free mods. And actually DaveWS's sound pack for CSR has mostly sounds recorded from onboard videos.

I see CSR as some kind of "quick fix" to make the game more enjoyable until further sound improvements. Of course it doesn't change how the game comes out of the box but that's why mods are called modifications.

Previously you said LFS should change to sampled sound system. May I suggest you to listen this: EngineSimAudioComparison.wmv (http://www.performancesimulations.com/files/EngineSimAudioComparison.wmv). It's a synthetised sound engine made by Todd Wasson. Best prove so far that synthetised can also sound like a real engine. Of course this has nothing to do with LFS but it shows what's possible to do with generated sound.

Go-carter

25th December 2006, 13:25

Though, one hilarious thing! Try starting your egnine!:D (probably the most fake engine-start i've heard, but fun!)

AndRand

25th December 2006, 13:45

Having the generated sounds with a sample overlay seems like one of the best / easiest ways of achieving both a good 'useability' and a good sound, to me.
:really:
imho sampled sounds can destroy all work on synthesized 'cos now with addition of gearwhine (which I hear as sampled) the mix sounds like sampled :( .

btw: I mentioned that in previous post, now transmission sounds too nervous 'cause inertia of complex is not simulated and sound is now on 100Hz sampling - well, tyres sound awesome on every curb now but maybe transmission due to inertia doesnt need that much of frequency? :scratchch

Fonnybone

25th December 2006, 14:26

I also voted it's a step in the right direction.

I must admit, when i first heard the RB4 i was shocked. I just couldn't get over the 'sounds in a can'. After trying most cars
and playing for a while, they did grow on me and didn't bother me as much. In fact, i loooove the FZ5 sound now. Raawwwrrrr.

The sounds are still as informative, and some new sounds even ADD information we didn't have before.

The only issue that still bothers me is that digital resonance we hear. There is still that very machine sounding tone that has
always plagued LFS sounds and makes you know after 2 seconds, this is an LFS car. Apart from that, thumbs way up :thumb: .

Trep_JDM

25th December 2006, 14:37

I'm very happy that we have new car sounds in the game
but i'm disappointed , because the BOV is not very loud . But we can ear the sound of the westgate :)

continue your good work ! :) you're on the good way !

Madman_CZ

25th December 2006, 15:01

Over last last few days I have been playing lfs version 0.04Q and S1 and when you go from playing those to the latest patch V version, ohhhhhhhhhhh boy, man such an improvement its unbelivable.

I urge everyone to play earlier version of lfs and the come back to V and see what you think.

I also think all this negativity and unsureness about the new sounds is around because everyone was so use to the older ones. It will take time to get use to and eventually it will grow on people.

mad

Trep_JDM

25th December 2006, 15:05

I also think all this negativity and unsureness about the new sounds is around because everyone was so use to the older ones. It will take time to get use to and eventually it will grow on people.

Yeah you're right
the people are not used to use the new sounds .

The new sounds are more realistic than the older ! great improvement

Sticky-Micky

25th December 2006, 16:39

how is the "dumpvalve" sound made now?

there is no sample that i can see?

geeman1

25th December 2006, 17:10

how is the "dumpvalve" sound made now?
there is no sample that i can see?No sample anymore, it is generated on the fly.

JTbo

26th December 2006, 00:32

I have to agree with those that are saying engine sounds like 1000-1500rpm less than rpm gauge shows, have been testing this now some time.

Took xr gt as it is close to my own car and did test runs, 3000-6000 range is surely missing that 1000rpm, but I think lower range is better.

Hatemaker

26th December 2006, 00:59

I love the way most of the cars sound now, but... I never hear my dumpvalve now? Maybe it's just me though...

Batterypark

26th December 2006, 01:07

C'mon guys, this is not the concert yet, it's just the band tuning their instruments :)

And they all sound like foghorns :D

Shotglass

26th December 2006, 16:57

thanks for demonstrating in files, what i have been saying all along. U could even go for harsher amounts, but thats good enuff.

i doesnt sound better because clipping is realistic ... the reason why it sounds better is because it introduces noise which lfs completely lacks in its engine sounds atm
but limitation noise isnt the correct form of noise to get the desired effect

KiDCoDEa

26th December 2006, 17:17

i doesnt sound better because clipping is realistic ... the reason why it sounds better is because it introduces noise which lfs completely lacks in its engine sounds atm
but limitation noise isnt the correct form of noise to get the desired effect

thanks for awesome valuable input man. next time we need input on sound i'll either msg phil spector or you.
the reason it sounds better is you.
you are the chosen one.
check latest time issue.

arco

26th December 2006, 17:55

Get something like this sound into LFS, and I would be in heaven. :lovies:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6021196065589597987

JTbo

26th December 2006, 18:43

Get something like this sound into LFS, and I would be in heaven. :lovies:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6021196065589597987

I would not like it as so terrible sound quality is not what I would like, half of engine sound disappears under disortion of sound recorded. But that engine makes nice sound, without disortion it certainly would be nice, that was 9-10k rpm I think? That is around where LX6 shoud sing too according to rpm gauge, but sound is not enough high currently.

BWX232

26th December 2006, 20:14

Definitely an improvement, but these muffled sounds give me headache- need more deep bass and treble, and more adjustment!
-->that's what I would vote for- none of the options listed fit.

-------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------

Wow, they are better than in real life!
--- No - far from it..

Definitely an improvement, a step to right direction.
-- Yes, but doesn't express the urgent need for improvement and sound leveling..

No big difference, some cars are better, some worse.
doesn't explain why

I prefer the old version, these muffled sounds give me headache!
Definitely do not want to go back to old sounds.. but these new ones DEFINITELY give me a headache.. not figuratively- but LITERALLY :-(

OMG, I started to like S1 sounds...
No, patch V sounds are FAR better... and seem to have infinitely more POTENTIAL.. but need adjustment and leveling.. full spectrum use.. or SOMETHING.

Vilante 11

26th December 2006, 20:35

I find it hard to be too critical as I don't know how the system works and its limitations etc.

I think they are sounding better as we go along and I'm willing to wait till they are improved further.

This is what is great about LFS. It's constantly evolving, we are always getting surprises and presents from the devs to improve what is already a great game.

There has to be a balance, we love this game for a reason and if the devs go changing everything willy nilly then it may become a game we don't love.

Eveyone here whinges too much IMO.

Thanks for the patch guys, enjoy the holidays and we look forward to what you have in store for us in the future, in the mean time I'm off for a few laps :)

detail

26th December 2006, 22:03

I was locked beyond a proxy for some days, and now, after unlocking, I've heard the new sounds.

Well, I see clearly that the new system has bigger potential, but currently the sounds need urgent improvement. I guess they've been released so because of Christmas pressure from the community.

GTR and some other cars sound poorly. The transmission is a cool feature, the sound "cone", that defines the volume depending on your position relative to the car, is also cool. But the engines are weak, like trombones, but not like engines. It seems that they produce a narrow band of frequencies, narrower than before. GTR and FO8 sound really badly: in chase-cam view transmission noise is louder.

The engines themselves sound like muted, like a car out there in the yard through a triple glass packet. In real life, a very loud sound makes a lot of echo and is heard farther. (Remember pit-lane interviews or just night ambient footage from Le Mans).

BF1 sounds exactly like an electric coffee-grinder. RAC, RB4 need improvements.

BuddhaBing

26th December 2006, 23:41

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6021196065589597987

What a fantastic video. I love Best Motoring. The only problem with videos like this one are that they drive home just how far racing simulations have to progress before they come anywhere near reality. Even the most sophisticated racing simulation on the market today is a toy in comparison.

JTbo

27th December 2006, 00:08

What a fantastic video. I love Best Motoring. The only problem with videos like this one are that they drive home just how far racing simulations have to progress before they come anywhere near reality. Even the most sophisticated racing simulation on the market today is a toy in comparison.

You are very right there, talking about realism is not much meaning still, as sims are so far from true realism, mostly fun and anjoyable, but when compared to real thing well, lot has been improved from 80's but still more has to be done.

mrbogeyman

27th December 2006, 00:51

I voted that the sounds were an improvement. They still need alot of tweaking though.

I have to agree that the transmission noise is overwhelming. It now seems to be the predominant sound in almost all of the cars.

It is beggining to bug me :shy: :shrug:

Has anyone found a way to remove it? It's not in the Sound folder anyway.

I would be quite happy to keep it, if only I could turn it down and make the engine the predominant sound again.

Effects volume sliders please Scawen :D

edit: That video of the old Skyline was excellent. To my ears there was nothing but a screaming 4cylinder and wind noise.

JTbo

27th December 2006, 01:36

edit: That video of the old Skyline was excellent. To my ears there was nothing but a screaming 4cylinder and wind noise.

That engine has actually 6 cylinders, look exhaust manifold, 3x2-barrel sidedraft carbs bolted there too and should you hear it too or perhaps recording quality was not best and it had bit disortion too? :D

r4ptor

27th December 2006, 05:06

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6021196065589597987

Beautiful.. simply beeeaaatful!

"I feel like the young Gan-san again"... indeed, whatever he is reffering to.. I'm all for it! :P

bo-kristiansen

27th December 2006, 05:49

Get something like this sound into LFS, and I would be in heaven. :lovies:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6021196065589597987

Thats awesome :thumb:
- I looouuve that kind of cars.

thx for the link

SchneeFee

27th December 2006, 08:01

Now that Patch V is out for a couple of days, and still theres no fix for it: I am getting scared that the BF1 sound is gona stay like it is for the next couple of month!
Sorry, but are you serious?
I mean, almost any car was improved (some more, some less) but the BF1 just sounds sh*t!!! We (our small Community) are having a BF1 Race in 2 Weeks and so we are all practicing a lot - and most of them refuse to update to Patch V just bcos the BF1 sound so bad.

Ok, if it cant be done better rigth now can we please have the old BF1 Version "U" Sound back? Pleeaase.:shy:

edit: voted for "Definitely an improvement, a step to right direction."

Gentlefoot

27th December 2006, 09:47

Well I've tried a few cars with the new sound. I have been driving the MRT a lot lately for the OWRL MRT Cup and I think it sounded better before the patch. It now sounds a lot like a hoover.

The FZR sounded a bit better though. I thought the BF1 was an improvement too.

What everyone needs to remember is when you are sitting in a car / on a bike the exhasust is behind you. Now I know that my GSXR with race can screams and howls and is very loud. I know this becuase everytime I open it up EVERYONE looks round. But to me, sitting in front of the exhaust, it just sounds like a standard bike. I can hear the induction from the K&N under the tank more than the zorst.

From my experience of driving proper race prepped cars the main noises you notice are things like the metallic banging of solid top mounts and hard polypropelene bushes. Eveything vibrates and it results in a cocophany of metallic noise. We don't get any of that in LFS.

I voted that this patch is not much different. Yes I think the new sound engine has more potential but as yet we have not reeped the benefits.

SchneeFee

27th December 2006, 11:02

I thought the BF1 was an improvement too.

maybe from a pure technical point of view it was improved, but it sounds crap. I want the BF1 U sound back!!!:irked:

Gentlefoot

27th December 2006, 11:51

maybe from a pure technical point of view it was improved, but it sounds crap. I want the BF1 U sound back!!!:irked:

I apologise. I must consider peoples reactions before expressing personal opinion. I now know that internet forums are not the appropriate place.

In future, if I have an opinion that differs from anyone elses I will keep it to myself. Sorry to have offended you.

SchneeFee

27th December 2006, 12:00

Scawen

27th December 2006, 12:07

Now that Patch V is out for a couple of days, and still theres no fix for it: I am getting scared that the BF1 sound is gona stay like it is for the next couple of month!
Sorry, but are you serious?Are you serious? Did you think I was going to continue working on Christmas day? Hahaha :D

I'm having a break, that's required after working very hard for a long time.

Also, there is no occasion on which I stated, suggested, hinted or implied that the sounds are finished. I have never said anything like that at all. The only thing I've said is that they still need work.

But I'm having a break, I said that as well.

None of this needed saying, because it's obvious. It's just that I'm already starting to read people who are getting very worried that the sounds are now here to stay and will never be improved again. I really have absolutely no idea why they have made up such a silly idea as that. I would prefer not to have to come here and state such obvious things.

garph

27th December 2006, 12:13

It's because people don't read the whole thread and don't read the other threads about the patch....

...LFS is updated more than any game I have, we have what we have so just be patient and wait for whatever is next.

Speed Soro

27th December 2006, 12:22

A late merry christmas and a happy new year for you, your family, and your team Scawen. You deserve it and take a rest for recharge your batteries.

2007 promises. If the sound is not that must yet, the right direction is taken.

SchneeFee

27th December 2006, 13:35

scawen: did u think i wanted u to work on xmas day :scratchch.

Your goal has always been to get a stable version so u can focus on the way to S2 final (as far as i understood). No doubt Version V is stable, and i welcome every improvement/fix that has come with it...but the BF1 sound..:schwitz:

After the Testpatches in which the sounds changed sometimes and also got better (even the bf1) i expected an acceptable sound for every car, and we got acceptable sound for every car -> except the bf1. The old sound provided a better feeling for the power and speed of this fast car - so maybe - after your brake we can get the old one back? :D

I never thought the sound will stay like this forever, but now that Patch V is out, there ll be a couple of month that we have to live with the current sound, and that was the reason for my post.

@graph: u r right, i am not reading every thread there is.

Gentlefoot

27th December 2006, 14:09

Maybe you can explain why you "think" the BF1 was improved rather than being feed up. I mean: did your try it? (more than high reving in the pits, bcos idle sounds nice). Maybe it sounds different at your system, bcos otherwise i just cant imagine how "anybody" can call the new BF1 sound an improvement.

No mate, I didn't try it at all. I just thought I'd write that I thought it had improved even though I never tried it.

Ofcourse I tried it you eeedgut!

Scawen

27th December 2006, 14:10

Well it's just a "wait and see" thing. I'm fully aware that the BF1 sound is weak. But it wasn't possible to make it sound good within the limits of the current system. There is experimentation that needs to be done. And the nature of experimentation is that I don't know what the results will be, so I can't estimate how long it will be until there are some better sounds available for you.

All I can say is (as I've said at least twice already) there's more to be done. I am not deaf so I can hear as well as anyone else that the BF1 doesn't sound like a F1 car. I'd also like to point out that it will never really sound like an F1 car - as anyone who has heard one live will tell you... when I heard the first one go past in the grandstand of a F1 race, everyone I could see was instantly in a panic trying to get their earplugs in before the next car came past - and if they couldn't get the earplugs in, then they just had to cover their ears for the next car then try again with the earplugs before the third car. It's that painful (or at least it was at that time... I don't know if they are quieter nowadays).

Speakers and headphones just don't make that kind of noise. Now that is NOT an "excuse" for the current BF1 sound. There are ways to make it better and that's what the experimentation is about. Next question : "are all the other cars acceptable". No, of course they will be improved as well. :) Sorry but all you can do is wait and see. I'll be experimenting and I'll be seeing what comes out as well - what and when that will be, I don't know.

I'm pleased to know from this poll that around 70% of people think they are an improvement. So they should be - they are done a much better way than in the old system. And that's encouraging. And it's nice to know that V is better than U in nearly all ways. So just stay calm a bit - the V sounds are better than they were in U - they're moving in the right direction so it's time for you to relax a bit - not get worried. :)

harlen

27th December 2006, 14:13

Hating the new muffled sounds...

XCNuse

27th December 2006, 14:15

All I can say is (as I've said at least twice already) there's more to be done. I am not deaf so I can hear as well as anyone else
wait until your baby gets to you :x lol well its good to know this information thanks scawen very informing :nod: (lol you know im messin with you)

im kind of curious though (dont want to take you away from your family but this is just a small question about what you said in this last post), when you say the sounds aren't capable of being made in the current system, is that the reason for the clicking sounds? (because of limitations)?
or am i just.. not even near the ballpark lol

@harlen, i like them.. yes i like hearing the outside, but that would sound weird if your on the inside of the car

a major problem i've come up with (well not a problem, but what needs to be improved) is the sound cars make on driveby, and how the exhaust is too quiet right now

Speed Soro

27th December 2006, 15:50

I don't know, but LFS cars sound as LFS cars, and this patch V is enough for a while.

I guess you got the way, so let the time goes. Ideas come and go, and time is important to take them best.

For now I thing it is enough.

I hope Scawen take time to improve aero physics and Eric do new tracks.

That is the most important thing for now I presume. The sounds can be better, they will be improved, but for now is enough. Lets take care of others things... after the restless is done :)

Shotglass

27th December 2006, 17:58

maybe from a pure technical point of view it was improved, but it sounds crap. I want the BF1 U sound back!!!:irked:

try to get a hold of the u34 (was that the one ?) bf1 engine file and youll be set until scawen works on the sounds again
maybe somebody whos still got all older testpatches (i havent due to the auto updater) could post a repository of all older engine file versions ... im sure theres a engine note for every car that will please each of you until patch w

SchneeFee

27th December 2006, 18:06

thx, thats what i am up to anyway. Back to Patch U.:shrug:
edit: i do have a backup.

Shotglass

27th December 2006, 18:10

thx, thats what i am up to anyway. Back to Patch U.:shrug:
edit: i do have a backup.

going back to u woul be a bit extreme ... there was a u3x version with a rather nice sounding bf1

SchneeFee

27th December 2006, 19:24

U34=u :)

deggis

27th December 2006, 19:26

here's is some old engine file for BF1, I don't know from which U3x it is... I think ajp71 posted this here few days ago.

pie

27th December 2006, 19:41

The sounds can be better, they will be improved, but for now is enough.

Sorry but i cant agree... i bet you arn't a BF1 driver!
I'm currently not driving BF1 as much as before because of the sound... so for me this is the most important thing :D

Scawen, i trust in you... i know you can make it sound better.
I just hope you can do something with my idea (soft clipping).
Please feel free to contact me about it...

Cheers and keep it up!

SchneeFee

27th December 2006, 20:11

thx :thumb:

BWX232

28th December 2006, 07:09

I have an idea that I'm not sure has been mentioned or discussed before.

I noticed than when you go by a wall or something and hear the "echo" or reverb or whatever it is, that the sound is instantly more rich and full, and sounds quite a bit better overall.

Maybe in the tiptops it would be cool if the LFS sound system calculated and made a reverb affect for the inside of the car? Most race cars are stripped out inside and have lots of metal surfaces that the sound could bounce off of... It might sound pretty cool.

pie

28th December 2006, 08:36

Most race cars are stripped out inside and have lots of metal surfaces that the sound could bounce off of... It might sound pretty cool.

I think that would be way to CPU intensive to calculate in realtime.

If Scawen is ever going to reconsider the whole sound engine, i'd vote for a sample based (wav) engine. Just like most other games do... it isn't for nothing that virtually all games use this technique. It probably would be lighter on CPU too then calculating the sound in realtime.

Just take a look at the "Car Sound Remixer" mod for LFS and download the v2 soundpack... some cars sound really good!

Cheers!

Misko

28th December 2006, 08:46

here's is some old engine file for BF1, I don't know from which U3x it is... I think ajp71 posted this here few days ago.Thats from U35 and I also like it best. Problem with it is lot of clipping when wind kicks in and with lots of cars in sight, so we have to lower car sound volume to something like 4-5 and even wind a little bit.

kaynd

28th December 2006, 10:52

The overall sound engine seems to be a step a step to right direction but the result isn’t that good… :(

Is there any way to separate the sources of the sound?

eg. engine sound from the hood , muffler sound from the back of the car

Its annoying that the sound seems to appear in the upper middle of my head (when wearing headset)

Sorry if it has been mentioned many times before:(

BWX232

28th December 2006, 11:19

I think that would be way to CPU intensive to calculate in realtime.

With Today's CPU's? I doubt it. I'm getting 200 FPS with all settings maxed out- I doubt one more sound reverb affect is going to crush my PC (or anyone else's). I mean it doesn't slow down when you go under a bridge and you hear that echo-reverb affect.

Anyway.. I hope it is something that they at least experiment with on their own and see what happens. Maybe it will add some life to the in-car sounds?

Kaizaka

28th December 2006, 11:37

I've liked all the sounds so far really except from the XFG. I've tried out majority of the cars too(except the RB4,FOX and F08).

Its definetaly a step in the right direction. The BF1 I actually like how high pitched it sounds. For some reason it makes me feel more like im in the car rather than behind this cheap tacky mouse/wheel(whichever im using). Although I do have my volume on fairly high so that may just explain it.

Good work so far team, just a small hop, skip and jump to go I feel until the sounds are :thumb::thumb::thumb:

TagForce

28th December 2006, 12:18

With Today's CPU's? I doubt it. I'm getting 200 FPS with all settings maxed out- I doubt one more sound reverb affect is going to crush my PC (or anyone else's). I mean it doesn't slow down when you go under a bridge and you hear that echo-reverb affect.

Anyway.. I hope it is something that they at least experiment with on their own and see what happens. Maybe it will add some life to the in-car sounds?

It may have a completely different and far worse effect though. It may produce lag in the audio latency of the mixing drivers, causing constant clicking and hopping in the sound playback. Of course this depends on the driver model used by LFS. I suspect the old Vista sound playback problems were also caused by this phenomenon, but I can't be sure.

I still want these effects, though.

pie

28th December 2006, 12:52

@BWX232

Well, you have a point... CPU's are fast nowadays (mine will be upgraded big-time today!)
But making a *good* reverb effect is still quite CPU intensive. The current effect implemented is rather delay than reverb wich is a much simpler effect to create.
Don't forget that with audio programming, every line of the algorithm code will need to be calculated 44100 times every second!

I don't think reverb will make it sound much better. It does not change the actual engine sound. I think a sample (wav) based engine sound will give the best possible results.

Ok, nuff said...

BWX232

28th December 2006, 15:44

Well sounds bounce around inside a real car.. so.. they might try to simulate that and just see what happens.

imthebestracerthereis

28th December 2006, 16:05

imo, patch V sounds like when I step on my cat :p on accident

Chris758

28th December 2006, 18:01

They seem to be much more realistic than before.

ORION

29th December 2006, 19:18

just wanted to say here that the new sounds are amazingly good on my notebook's speakers (however)... much much much better than with my headset... :)
(I guess because the notebook speakers have almost no bass)

The turbo is really annoying in most cockpit views, though

Nighthawk

30th December 2006, 03:37

Great Work! :thumb:

Sounds good for me! ;)

...and the best is! it still becomes better! (in future!) :tilt: :trampolin

seinfeld

30th December 2006, 04:17

I like all ones :thumb:

check this out, that sound is the most real of the world... LOL, its a pit stop of F1 car CLICK HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl9KvwEDkYU&mode=related&search=) :D

if someone can make a better sound with their nose where the hell is lfs going seriously :pillepall

KMSpeed

30th December 2006, 04:27

I voted the "I prefer the old version, these muffled sounds give me headache! "

But the rest improvements of the V patch are very nice and definatelly many steps forward.

mr.spock

30th December 2006, 04:28

I agree with PIE - the BF1 sounds are truly awful. F1 engines do not sound like coffee grinders. I actually have to turn the sound down to near zero because it detracts from the game.

I too agree that Scawen is a god, and will have this sorted soon :)

I do start to feel that there may have to be a total rethink of the sound engine though to get this right. I hope I'm wrong !

seinfeld

30th December 2006, 04:31

KMSpeed

30th December 2006, 06:29

Can someone plz give me the link that explains why we made this transition to the sound sustem (the technical reason)?

There are so many threads about the "sound" matter that I can't it find via the search option. :shy:
But i remember that there was a relevant thread or group of posts.

SkyNet

30th December 2006, 07:01

I'd realy like the "use old sounds" to be available in the options. Patch V is ok becouse of all the fixes, but i pesonally don't like the new sounds.

Cue-Ball

30th December 2006, 07:29

Can someone plz give me the link that explains why we made this transition to the sound sustem (the technical reason)?I can't give you a specific link, but if you look in the test patch section you'll find plenty of info. Part of the reason for the change was a fix for Vista (the old sound engine doesn't work properly on that crappy OS). Another part of the change was so that Scawen could add new things like transmission and rear end noise as well as fiddling with the sounds a bit as he works towards more realism. I'm sure that before too long we'll get more changes to the engine noise, changes to the tranny and rear end noise, undercarriage noise, etc. Scawen has said repeatedly that Patch V is just a short pit stop on the road towards a much fuller and more realistic sound system.

KMSpeed

30th December 2006, 07:41

Thx a lot Cue-Ball. :thumb:

Vilante 11

30th December 2006, 08:06

If Scawen is ever going to reconsider the whole sound engine, i'd vote for a sample based (wav) engine. Just like most other games do... it isn't for nothing that virtually all games use this technique. It probably would be lighter on CPU too then calculating the sound in realtime.

I would be very concerned that changing the system to a sample based system would ruin the great feel you get from the system as it is now!

I'd rather have mediocre sounds that communicate what the car is doing than brilliant sounds that don't help your driving any day!!

seinfeld

30th December 2006, 09:06

too heavy on the cpu FFS, at present a p2 can run this game, the average person has now a sempron 2 ghz cpu, lets beef this baby (game)up
graphics sound wise its so 80's now

lalathegreat

30th December 2006, 09:15

i voted i perffered the older sounds. i really didn't feel it was a step in the right direction.

lfs sound has always been generated on the fly from in game numbers.
lfs it seemed to use:

RPM
Engine size (liter)
engine type
Throttle position
cynlinders
amount of power gernerated

am sure he used a filter to generate the mufler sound.

with that sound engine the way sounds sound is fantastic but how the sound sounds is not so good compared to some sampled sounds... actually quite a few.

1.3d sound

2.use of EAX extensions
thease extensions would work wonders on lfs, if u have a good understandment of how sound works you know the improvements that can be made. Eg when something moves further away from you the higher frequencies get drowned out; frequecies get drowned out moving through air yadaydda all this can be simmulated on sound cards today

3. i see a substancial improvement if lfs used a little more varaibles

RPM
Engine size (liter)
stroke
bore
engine type
Throttle position
cynlinders
compresion
valves
number of valves per cylinder
camshafts
exhaust diameter
turbo size

also it could be just me but lfs seems to lack dynamic range when it comes to loadness cars just don't seem alive at 9000rpm(xrt)

Blowtus

30th December 2006, 10:24

I would be very concerned that changing the system to a sample based system would ruin the great feel you get from the system as it is now!

I'd rather have mediocre sounds that communicate what the car is doing than brilliant sounds that don't help your driving any day!!

A sample overlay from CSR has only made me faster, if anything... :D

alland44

30th December 2006, 11:12

Cue-Ball

30th December 2006, 16:39

1.3d sound

2.use of EAX extensions
thease extensions would work wonders on lfs, if u have a good understandment of how sound works you know the improvements that can be made. Eg when something moves further away from you the higher frequencies get drowned out; frequecies get drowned out moving through air yadaydda all this can be simmulated on sound cards today

3. i see a substancial improvement if lfs used a little more varaibles

While I agree with you on these points, the sad fact is that wishing for them doesn't do any good. 3D sound, EAX support, more varied sounds, more accurate sounds, etc. all have to be programmed by someone. In the case of LFS that someone is Scawen. As much as we all want better sound we also want about eleventy billion other things as well. There's only 24 hours in a day and we can't expect everything all at once. The new sounds have been very controversial and Scawen knows that they still need work. I fully expect that after his holiday break the sounds will be the first thing he works on since there have been so many comments about them. However; I definitely wouldn't expect to see 3D sound or EAX support in S2. That would require an entire rewrite of the sound code and while it would definitely be nice to have, it's certainly not a necessity. Better engine, transmission, and ambient sounds can go a long, long way towards satisfying everyone. Heck, GTR2 doesn't have 3D sound, 5.1 support, etc. and everyone raves about how great it sounds (even though it's not nearly as communicative as LFS).

Vilante 11

30th December 2006, 19:12

A sample overlay from CSR has only made me faster, if anything... :D

Jeebus, you're too bloody fast as is :D

lalathegreat

30th December 2006, 23:27

While I agree with you on these points, the sad fact is that wishing for them doesn't do any good. 3D sound, EAX support, more varied sounds, more accurate sounds, etc. all have to be programmed by someone. In the case of LFS that someone is Scawen. As much as we all want better sound we also want about eleventy billion other things as well. There's only 24 hours in a day and we can't expect everything all at once. The new sounds have been very controversial and Scawen knows that they still need work. I fully expect that after his holiday break the sounds will be the first thing he works on since there have been so many comments about them. However; I definitely wouldn't expect to see 3D sound or EAX support in S2. That would require an entire rewrite of the sound code and while it would definitely be nice to have, it's certainly not a necessity. Better engine, transmission, and ambient sounds can go a long, long way towards satisfying everyone. Heck, GTR2 doesn't have 3D sound, 5.1 support, etc. and everyone raves about how great it sounds (even though it's not nearly as communicative as LFS).

for me the 3d sound should be priotiy though, i don't know why a game like gtr dosent have it but gtr dosent set any standards:). i have dosne some 3d sound demos before using open al and directx audio and they arent insanely hard to do. although a game like LFS am sure it isnt going to be a walk in the park.

for those who are clueless on this its basically all u have to do is have a listener and some sources both have (x,y,z) cordinates, feeding those parameters into an api which then sends it off to the soundcard to do all the comlicated reverberations and multichannel stuff. he dosent have to rewrite anything just write some a little more (that is prob an understament though)

still there only one programmer. and that buts a damper on situation there gonna be comprimises here and there