TEST Patch U35 (obsolete) [Archive]

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Scawen

20th December 2006, 19:54

Hello Racers! Here is a new Test Patch U35! :)

There are a lot of changes since version U - all listed below in this post. Important changes include :

New Script System
Car Sound Improvements
Automatic Update System
Windows Vista Compatibility
S2 racers can now see S1 hosts
S1 users can use the skin downloading system
Many fixes and improvements in all areas

WARNING : your controls will not be correctly assigned due to the new way the controls are stored in a special file in the data\misc folder. There is a default file included for the Red Momo and the Microsoft FF Wheel so they should be reasonably set up if you have one of those. We will be providing default files for many wheels. We will make a special announcement when we need help supporting more wheels.

NOTE about H-shifters : Since U11, you cannot use an H shifter on a single seater car. If you have a shifter, LFS automatically sets to sequential when you select a single seater. There are two separate versions of these three settings (one for sequential and one for shifter) : AutoClutch, GCCut, GCBlip. That's because a lot of people may wish to use auto clutch with their paddle shift and manual clutch with their shifter.

NOTE about controls : There is a new script system you can read about below. When you select a car with a road / sequential or paddle shifter, LFS will run the file data\script\road.lfs (etc). Some people may want to use the /button command in their scripts, to assign unused buttons. For example when you drive a formula car, you have a spare horn button and you might want to use that for pit speed limiter.

Changes in TEST PATCH U35 :

Sound :

Improved car engine and other sounds, added gear whine etc.
One extra car sound is now played (now 5 including your own car)
Sound now plays at low speed, if replay at 0.5 or 0.25 speed
Skid / scrape sounds are now bounded to reasonable level
Now generated at 100 Hz resolution - same as physics
Engine can now be heard from a greater distance
Improved wind volume at low and high speeds

FIX : Corrected volume of interface sounds
FIX : Small clicks audible a few times per lap
FIX : Removed crackling of sounds related to echoes
FIX : Bug in camera position height part of sound calculation
FIX : No music when watching MP Replay with music in replays ON
FIX : Looping music buffer while selecting a track - now silent
FIX : Nasty sound clicks when cars got nearer and further away

Multiplayer :

Improved multiplayer synchronisation checking (OOS)
SHIFT+S when spectating now goes directly to garage
Garage when not in race now shows spectate and join buttons
Clicking join with no car selected goes to select car screen
Can't join race / leave pits for 12 seconds after green light
One extra car in high resolution physics (car in front at start)
Discount immediate pit stops from the "must pit" rule (cheating)

FIX : Rare crash in blue flags calculation
FIX : LFS online hosts would hang if run for 50 days
FIX : Stuck in entry screen if host has run for 25 days
FIX : Rare problem causing your car to vanish on other computers
FIX : Spectate after autocross run caused "Unknown finisher" message
FIX : A player in pits could be forced to spectate at end of race
FIX : Qualifying countdown was too short if less than 4 in race
FIX : Mandatory pit stop is now not allowed to be on final lap
FIX : RCM now has priority over race finished messages

2D Display :

Misc Option : Show time instead of FPS in-game
New path draw for game setup screen and in-game
Realistic speedometer based on drive shaft speed
Hold CTRL+SHIFT to show time instead of frame rate
User messages no longer obscure the frame rate display
Not recording message is now only displayed for 8 seconds
Messages now visible but dimmed in ESCAPE and OPTIONS screens
FOV adjust keys (5/6) now show the FOV in a temporary message
Virtual start lights are now displayed on the right by default
Small map is now never shown on the left if right is selected
Message history (H) is now hidden at race restart or SHIFT+F
Option to show small map on left or right of screen
Removed text "LEFT pit lane" and "ENTERED pit lane"
Central text now visible in SHIFT+F mode (option)
Temporary messages now visible even if fps is off
Real mirrors are now invisible if set to virtual
Added UP and DOWN buttons to options screen
Messages are now hidden in the ESCAPE menu

Interface :

Easier to get to desired FOV using 5 and 6 zoom keys
Text entry box is smaller and blocks driving view less
Button control rate option now visible in wheel/js mode
Improved instant gear shift mode selection function SHIFT+G
New general purpose save and load dialogs with rename / delete
List of games screen allows sorting hosts by clicking column title
Improved replay selection screen, added delete, rename and info
Keys Y/N (yes/no) now work on the replay skins download screen
Option to switch off acceleration view shifts in custom views
Mirror mode for driver and custom views (now in view options)
Added "all" to clocks mode options (off, real, virtual, all)
New track selection screen allows track browsing before load
Graphics options changed around to be intuitive / consistent
New graphics option : Draw sky (replaces screen clear type)
Controls screen now shows the function assigned to a button
Scroll bar added if more than 7 players in list of players
Skip intro option is now very fast (avoids loading track)
Skip intro option renamed to : Load track when starting
FIX : Button opacity option affected the colour sliders
Game setup screen : ENTER key - joins race / sets ready
Game setup screen : now shows local and UTC (GMT) time
Game setup screen : Can now use /spec(tate) X command
Cleaner replay start - avoiding flashing entry screen
Start New Game / Join Specific Game : Added ENTER key
Misc Option : 12 hour or 24 hour format selectable
Car picture can now select the car (not just text)
Some improvements to graphics options and layout
Close window button (X) does a quick clean exit
New /exit command also does a quick clean exit
Added ALT+F1 to F12 as programmable text keys
Key ALT+F4 is programmed to /exit by default
Added rename function for car setups

FIX : LOD values were rounding to one decimal place
FIX : Clutch pedal was not shown in controls setup screen
FIX : Mip bias setting was wrongly affecting in-game text
FIX : Clickable buttons in connection list at start of race
FIX : Changes were lost when selecting in car / custom views
FIX : Could not view user names in replay if MP mode was Demo
FIX : Arrow keys work in wheel mode even if assigned to KB steer
FIX : Messages were unblocked by sending any command to the host
FIX : Black screen bug changing between full screen and windowed
FIX : Move speed slider didn't work in high view if following car
FIX : Channel screen brought up a background while in game

Views :

Improved position of road car internal mirrors
Internal mirror offset limit increased to 400 mm
Separate mirror offset for custom and internal views
Single seater car shadows now visible in custom views
Cameta roll function added to SHIFT+U free camera mode
Custom view mode selection now separate for main and look
Buttons in view options to set custom view to eye or centre
BF1 / FO8 show virtual clocks if wheel draw is switched off
Maximum value reached marker added to virtual pedals
TV camera, CTRL + arrow keys change zoom and roll
Draw driver / wheel option added to custom views
Custom views are now stored in data\views folder
Custom view settings now separate for all cars

FIX : Excessive acceleration view shift in fast cars
FIX : Formula dash live settings now work in custom view
FIX : Mirror option ALL did not show a mirror in wheels view

Controllers :

Axis, button and key assignments stored in .con files
Sequential shift automatically used for single seaters
Separate shift help settings for sequential and shifter
All steering wheels default to separate throttle / brake
Non-wheel game controllers default to combined thr / brk
Controls setup screen now shows the currently pressed buttons
Wheel turn minimum reduced to 90 degrees (for sticks / pads)
CTRL+F1 to F12 text keys are all now assignable to buttons
Car's steering wheel turns now shown in steering settings

Windows Vista Support :

FIX : Sound now works correctly in Windows Vista
FIX : Unlocking is now possible in Windows Vista

Misc :

Added file docs\Commands.txt - listing ALL commands
Updated... docs\Autocross.txt - for new functions

Option : minimum time between gearshifts (debounce)
S1 users can now use the automatic skin download system
Automatic update system gives info, downloads, installs patch
FF Steps now defaults to 256 (this gives higher resolution FF)
Layouts do not set the number of laps unless a start pos exists
S2 users can see and join S1 hosts in List of Games screen
When first run, LFS defaults to desktop screen resolution
Restricted areas and route checkers added to autocross
Welcome / Tracks filename length increased to 31 chars
New car data output files (press letter O in garage)
Gearshift debounced (can't shift twice within 50 ms)

InSim : MCI packets are now available in arenas
InSim : IS_RES qualify packets sent even if not in table

FIX : Outguage reported remote cars fuel load
FIX : Driver's body optimisation was too sensitive
FIX : Selecting drag strip often resulted in 3 lap race
FIX : OutGauge now works on remote cars / MPR / external
FIX : Reverse driving in hotlapping mode now invalidates HLVC
FIX : Starting LFS with /join command needlessly loaded last track
FIX : Corrected positions of translator names on credits screen
FIX : A few wrong vertices on driver necks and marshall helmet
FIX : Mirrors and clocks sometimes corrupted after minimising
FIX : Small map sometimes went off screen or overlapped text
FIX : Unlock was lost after hibernation on some computers
FIX : CTRL+F keys did not work during replays

New file associations system :

SPR / MPR / SET / LYT files can now be opened directly
In Windows, right click and set them to open with LFS

Double clicking a SET or LYT file copies it to its folder
Double clicking a SPR or MPR file copies and runs the replay

New LFS script system :

- Place text file of commands xxx.lfs in script folder
- Then script xxx.lfs can be run by typing /run xxx
- Note : CAR.lfs is run when you select CAR e.g. XFG, BF1
- Note : autoexec.lfs is run when LFS reaches entry screen

New text commands added (see Commands.txt in docs folder) :

/fov [degrees] - field of view
/ff [0-200] - force feedback strength
/axis [axis] [function] - e.g. /axis 2 throttle
/invert [0/1] [function] - e.g. /invert 1 brake
/button [function] - e.g. /button 5 shift_up
/key [key] [function] - e.g. /key Q handbrake
/head_tilt [degrees] - 1g head tilt
/lateral_shift [m] - 1g lateral shift
/forward_shift [m] - 1g forward shift
/vertical_shift [m] - 1g vertical shift
/say [message] - same as typing a chat message
/echo [text] - show text only on local screen
/spec [name] - same as spectate [name]
/ctrlf [num] [text] - change text e.g. /ctrlf 1 hello
/altf [num] [text] - change text e.g. /altf 1 /view=driver
/wheel_turn [degrees] - specify turn angle of controller
/press [key] - simulate key press
/ctrl [key] - ctrl + key
/shift [key] - shift + key
/alt [key] - alt + key
/autoclutch [0-1] - turn autoclutch off / on
/gccut [0-1] - throttle cut on upshift
/gcblip [0-1] - throttle blip on downshift
/axlaps [num] - set autocross number of laps
/view [fol/heli/cam/driver/custom] - select view

IN A SCRIPT : //comment - this line is ignored
IN CHAT BOX : //xxx - short for /run xxx

/hrun X : admin can run script X on host
/exec E C : run program E with command line C

/shifter [auto/sequential/shifter] - shift mode (like SHIFT+G)
/hidetext [no/yes] - hide text (like SHIFT+F)

INSTALLATION :

[B]Warning : If you have edited any scripts, don't overwrite them! Back up your script folder before install!

1) Move or save the patch into your main LFS folder
2) Double click the patch to extract it to that folder
3) When you see "Confirm File Replace" select "Yes to All"
3) Now you can start LFS in the normal way

DOWNLOAD :

TEST PATCH U35 :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_TEST_U_TO_U35.exe

DEDICATED HOST U35 (for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_U35.zip

Speed Soro

20th December 2006, 20:06

1st post lol

your post will be deleted, hope.

Scawen, I don't know if you had time to see, or to consider my sugestion about loudness increase as engine rotation and/or car velocity grows.

If so, what are your considerations about this and if you have any counterpoint to this idea, or if it has been implemented yet, could you express your opinion, please?

It is important for us to know if we are helping or not, and if the ideas and the discussion is under a objective line.

Scawen

20th December 2006, 20:15

I've removed the spam posts and the posts about unlocking.

If you had a version older than U30, then you may need to unlock when you install U35.

But if you have run out unlocks, then don't ask here - this is not the place to ask technical support requests.

Scawen

20th December 2006, 20:20

your post will be deleted, hope.

Scawen, I don't know if you had time to see, or to consider my sugestion about loudness increase as engine rotation and/or car velocity grows.

If so, what are your considerations about this and if you have any counterpoint to this idea, or if it has been implemented yet, could you express your opinion, please?I did see it. Actually the volume does increase as velocity grows. I don't think I'll be changing this aspect as I think it is reasonably balanced already. If you have a particular car that is too loud when idling or too quiet when on the throttle, I will look at it.

It is important for us to know if we are helping or not, and if the ideas and the discussion is under a objective line.You are helping. Only, I cannot reply to every post, or I would spend all day replying and never programming. I do read every post though and consider everything that people say and every bug they report and every suggestion they make as long as it is related to the test patch.

But please everyone, no suggestions, just report serious issues. Patch and Full Version V final build is schedules for tomorrow, so I'm really not implementing new features now.

Thanks! :)

Speed Soro

20th December 2006, 20:33

Thanks Scawen

:)

and it is serious, and I had said before, I got a worm when I dl patch u34 from England server. I was using Kapersky and it alerted the intruder after LFS dl the patch.

It is good to verify if proceeds or not.

Krane

20th December 2006, 20:37

I was about to post the following problem about sound distortion, but found out after testing and tweaking that lowering the master volume and wave volume in Windows Play Control fixes the distortion.

Which leads me to the actual problem/bug in LFS, the total volume is too loud? (For my soundcard/usual volume settings anyway)
It's supported by the users of Team Speak saying they can't hear others speaking.

I have a problem with BF1, on the default (I think) car volume of 8.0 I get get alot of distortion above 15k rpm and it gets worse as speed increases, but it's very noticeable even under 100kph on 1st gear. I have to lower the car volume to lowest setting of 2.0 to get rid of the distortion. But even then I still get it if drive very close to a wall. When doing that distortion goes so bad that the earpiece on the wall side goes nearly silent. Distortion goes away instantly when I let go off the gas.

Same thing happens on eg Soutch City tracks when there's alot of cars nearby such as as at race start. When I lower the car volume to 2.0, distortion is barely noticeable.

LFS U35
AMD Athlon XP 1800+
384 DDR
Creative SB Live! 1024 connected to some Grundig stereo connected to Koss Sparkplugs. Driver e:\windows\system32\drivers\emu10k1m.sys (5.12.01.3300 built by: WinDDK, 277,25 KB (283*904 bytes), 7.10.2005 0:06)
XP SP2

No other sound related problems.

Red Runner

20th December 2006, 20:48

wsinda

20th December 2006, 20:51

I got a worm when I dl patch u34 from England server. I was using Kapersky and it alerted the intruder after LFS dl the patch.Speed Soro, this may be a false alert. The auto-update means that there is a program on your PC (lfs.exe) that downloads another program (patch.exe) to your harddisk and then runs it (= installs the patch). That looks a lot like a worm.

You'd better check with Kaspersky if it can give a false alert on this kind of program. Otherwise, try to find the details about Kasperky's alert, and post them here or send them to the devs.

Primoz

20th December 2006, 20:51

The sounds are getting there. Only 1 compalint. Would it be possible to make the GTRs sound more feorcious? At the moment they sound like a little tiny bit beefed up road cars with gear whine. GTRs probably don't have much sound isolation left so you can hear that monster of the engine in front (or at the back) of you.

GP4Flo

20th December 2006, 20:54

- The BF1 still has sound clipping at high speeds. Try Aston GP reversed and you will hear it in 7th gear at the backstraight. It's even worse at South City (e.g. classic), there the clipping already starts in 5th gear.
- Did you change the BF1's shifting sound? I like the one from U34 more.
- With window while connecting activated, LFS still switches back to full screen when restarting after an auto update. This can cause problems with firewalls or virus scanners taking the focus away from LFS (this has already been reported in the old thread).

Ball Bearing Turbo

20th December 2006, 20:58

doesn't respond to throttle input in a dynamic enough way? It seems to just be a speed dependant whistle, but actual gearbox whine changes greatly when you lift the throttle, it doesn't just change pitch.
Well, it's pretty dynamic now - more so than anything else I've played. Hop a wheel and it bounces with the wheel rotation, since it's actually tied to the physics. Maybe it should be different on decel than accel, but since it's the same gears - just torque being applied in the other direction, I don't understand why :shrug:

;291613'] the engine sound sucks , it is so unrealistick , it sounds even not like car engine sound ........
:rolleyes: If you can seriously take the RAC out for a spin and NOT conclude that it sounds amazingly like a real car; then I would strongly suggest that you invest in a crate of Qtips and begin work immediately.

and also FZ50 sound is a bit "muted".. other than that great job IN truth, real Porches (at least post 80s) sound quite like the FZ50's cockpit sound. Although the one I rode in had a bit more snarl around 4500+ RPM, it still basically sounds like that TBH. They're quieter than you would think inside, quite classy cars.

its a turbo so bigger the better, but your trade off is poor drivability and loss of low end torque but massive gain up high
Actually, the reason a larger exhaust is desirable on a turbocharged vehicle is because it will increase the pressure differential between the inlet (engine) side of the turbocharger's turbine housing and the outlet side. This increases potential for the expansion of hot gasses, which in turn dumps more energy into the turbine, thus the turbocharger "spools" faster and boost comes on much quicker. This of course creates much MORE low end torque. The higher end of the powerband is not affect a whole lot, since the most significant exhaust gas bottleneck was the turbocharger's turbine even before the new exhaust was fitted. Turbocharged vehicle exhaust systems are a whole different beast, although in some ways simpler than NA vehicles.

'd love it now if we had a little more going on on throttle lift. You mean like backfires? :D Alas I'm sure this will be in an incomp patch since Scawen will want to use math / fuel / air / manifold volume / temperature blah blah.. You know - the right way!

Yisc[NL]

20th December 2006, 21:04

I really love all the work the dev-team puts into this great game.
Please allow me to ask for a small favour. I thought that in some of the test-patches cars that are 1 or more laps behind you, had a different color on the map. I was just playing U35 and had some great races which were disturbed by letting cars pass me, with 1 or more laps behind. I thought I was racing them, since they colored orange (which I love as a dutchman anyway :D). Maybe this can be changed in the final V-version. I hope so, makes racing so much easier if you know who you are really racing.

I forgot something. Is it possible to completely shutdown chat- and systemmessages?
It's ignoring to see that people joined/leaved/pitting ect.
I have my map on the leftside of the screen and those messages (even when blocking messages) keep scrolling over the map.

Mike85

20th December 2006, 21:23

About the sound: the turbo car in the demo gets anoying with the turbo hiss sound. (When the turbo works). It gives me headaches. I think its too high frequency or its a too special frequency. Like brown noise or something:)

Id say mister Scawen you should put on headphones and drive the XRT turbo and listen when the turbo kicks in. The noise is not tolerable I think. Id say under extreme curcomstances, you should revert to previous sound and deal with it in other patches. I dont know.

Thats my 5 cents, anyway keep up the good work. This talking with developers is very exciting:)

Ball Bearing Turbo

20th December 2006, 21:46

Again - listen to a real turbocharged car (with no intake helmholtz resonanting nonsense BS) and tell me you think the same. A real turbocharged car would likely annoy the crap out of you as well... impellers spinning at 130,000+ RPM make quite a high-pitched sound! :shrug:

Shotglass

20th December 2006, 21:48

nice improvements but imho the xrt still is too muffeled
feels like im driving some other car

if i may ill repost this question to see if im ill or if it is an issue for others as well:

FIX : Excessive acceleration view shift in fast cars

im not entirely sure but i think it might cause some issues for me
with that fix the cockpit vibrates a lot more which causes motion sickness especially noticeable on the rac with that bar directly in your view
anybody else whos got that problem ?

This may be a problem with my sound setup and has not to be related to LFS!

I'm having real problems with interferences here, meaning that the sound gets really loud at some revs.
For example LX4:
1000-8100 rpm: normal sound
8100-8200 rpm: really loud
> 8200 rpm: normal sound again

Really loud means
a) Teamspeak with voice activation triggers
b) I get headaches while racing

I think, I read something about a "stereo effect" before cleaning up here and can imagine that this is related.

Does anyone else feel the same problems?
I did a quick test with lowering the center volume, lowering subwoofer volume and turning / moving the speakers a bit around, but nothing really helped. All I achieved was moving the inteference range a little(!) bit around, e.g. 8000-8100 rpm instead of 8100-8200 rpm.

Greetz
Red Runner

does the sound get a lot quieter if you move your head a bit ?

Pablo.CZ

20th December 2006, 21:53

"Other cars sound volume increased by 10%"

Is it possible to increase this volume by 50+% or add slider to audio options? And make other cars sounds audible from larger distance? IRL GTRs are very noisy and audible from hundreds of metres.
I raced FOX against group of GTRs and other cars are all the time silent and audible only from very small distance.

This will add atmosphere to the game (race).

Hurts2bStock

20th December 2006, 22:03

I'm now waiting for the "partridge in a pear tree" Scawen, cause your making me belive that Christmas realy does have 12 days. :D

I've been testing on low end but decent headphones and my high end stereo, and the experience its very positive.:thumb: , it's almost hard to test now because I keep finding my self just slipping away into the game, rather than staying objective :nod:

lococost

20th December 2006, 22:06

I noticed the GTRs still have the same repetetive gearwhine, at constant high speed, its like a sample that repeats itself every second, its very annoying.
I could live with the sound in general, altough ofcourse, its still too clean and still has too little high frequenties, but for the GTRs i'ld always have to go back to preU32, its really that awefull.

traxxion

20th December 2006, 22:07

Dont know if this was intended, but I think it's a bug.

I found a table with downloaded skins in the "Misc" menu, while I was scrolling through it for the translations. I had accidentally joined a server about 10 minutes before that and quit immediately, so i don't think the downloads were finished yet. (screenshot attached)
Edit: when I closed and restarted LFS the list was gone :)

Great job on the U35 sounds by the way, a lot better than the U32 ones! BMW F1 still is nothing like an F1 car though. UF GTR sound is the best so far!

And the gear whine is too much like a starting jet engine, should be more like an almost annoying sound to make it more real in my opinion :)

spoonsports

20th December 2006, 22:13

This may be a problem with my sound setup and has not to be related to LFS!

I'm having real problems with interferences here, meaning that the sound gets really loud at some revs.
For example LX4:
1000-8100 rpm: normal sound
8100-8200 rpm: really loud
> 8200 rpm: normal sound again

Really loud means
a) Teamspeak with voice activation triggers
b) I get headaches while racing

I think, I read something about a "stereo effect" before cleaning up here and can imagine that this is related.

Does anyone else feel the same problems?
I did a quick test with lowering the center volume, lowering subwoofer volume and turning / moving the speakers a bit around, but nothing really helped. All I achieved was moving the inteference range a little(!) bit around, e.g. 8000-8100 rpm instead of 8100-8200 rpm.

Greetz
Red Runner

that is probably from reverberation. I get the same effect too. I think it hits a certain note where the volume increases alot. You can also get this in a car too. Driving my mates integra with a modified exhaust, this occurs at around 3000rpm. Additionally, about the patch, everything sounds much better. Much more meatier. However the FZR i believe still sounds a bit too weak for a GTR car. In U30 it sounded very sharp, almost machine gun like. I mean you can hear each cylinder firing with tremendous force. Finally, good to now hear tyre squeal at a higher volume than before =]. Much better feedback from the car now. I haven't had time to test everything but these are what i noticed.

Horci

20th December 2006, 22:16

Much better than the previous verisons was :thumb:, but still cant race with it :(
The sounds dont feel bad when I try them in AU, or fust for fun, hit the racetrack.

During the race I cant hear the tires, the skid sound is at max, engine is about 25%.
And still all sounds are dull :(

Falcon140

20th December 2006, 22:31

bf1 sounds horrible

SlamDunk

20th December 2006, 22:42

MoonForce

20th December 2006, 22:43

bf1 sounds horrible

thats what i call constructive critic...

bbman

20th December 2006, 22:48

I've got a (slight) bug: If you fast forward through your replay, finish and then go back to normal speed again, the finishing applause is played even if your finish was several minutes ago and you changed your car in the meantime...

Linsen

20th December 2006, 23:28

Another report of BF1 sound clipping like mad. Lowering the car engine volume helps for in-car view but not for TV-cam view (when several cars are passing by), even if I lowered engine volume and reduced WAV and the master volume from Windows by 50%.

I haven't tried other cars.

I'm having the same problem with BF1. It's happening all the time in TV-cam view and often enough in in-car view. Master volume and WAV are set to 50% and in-game controls to standard (except for tires which are set to 1.0). Apart from that the BF1-sound is pretty much spot on now, imho.

[RCG]Boosted

20th December 2006, 23:57

i like the sound of the LX6 thats the sound i want to have :shy:
really gives a great feeling that "ROAAAR" :D
but still this problem, its sounds like theres no treble at all.
and i need to increase my volume for lil cars and decrease it for bigger ones because the difference is very big. imo the skid sounds are still not loud enough :/
anyway, good work the LX6 is a good example!

Boris Lozac

21st December 2006, 00:32

Scawen, is there any chance to have the sounds again when LFS is minimised?

(SaM)

21st December 2006, 00:42

To almost everyone:

But please everyone, no suggestions, just report serious issues. Patch and Full Version V final build is schedules for tomorrow, so I'm really not implementing new features now.

Thanks! :)

Flycantbird

21st December 2006, 00:49

I think the BF1 is getting quite a bit better, actually. All the open wheel cars are working well ( with my system, my ears ).

Great feedback through the sounds, it at least feels to me like I"m better able to judge throttle position when getting off and on the gas to work through turns.

U36 introduces the semi-truck horns( for scooting slower mrts out of the way), and people tooting air horns after a race ?

Seriously, though, I've used the patch(es) for 3 days, and have had no glitches with audio or video, no odd things happening on-line, etc.

Boris Lozac

21st December 2006, 02:44

To almost everyone:

No, didn't mean now, or in patch V, but just a question, wheather or not it will be possible in future.. :)

(SaM)

21st December 2006, 02:49

No, didn't mean now, or in patch V, but just a question, wheather or not it will be possible in future.. :)

Wasn't talking to you, ;-)
Anyway, less off-topic, more serious posts please.

joeynuggetz

21st December 2006, 02:58

Not sure if its me or if I'm noticing more pop ups with U35. I mean the fences at South City appear to be drawing only a few meters in front of me. Do I have a LOD setting that has gone out of whack?

Impreza WRX

21st December 2006, 04:15

geezer45

21st December 2006, 04:17

LFS updater is a good feature, but I'd like an additional EXE which has a sole purpose of checking/installing updates. It just seems like a lot of dicking around starting up LFS, downloading the patch, being thrown out of LFS, then waiting for LFS to restart. Or maybe I'm just lazy ;).

An independent 'LFS Updater' EXE would not require much RAM at all to run, so users wouldn't have to wait at the loading screen twice just to install a patch. This EXE would complement the existing system, not replace it.

Also, because I'm quite busy at the moment with my 'real' work, I will currently only play LFS when I know there is an update. Being able to quickly check when I turn on my computer in the morning will let me know if I can get straight into my work or whether I will become a slave to LFS for an hour :razz:

+1 or -1 ?

(SaM)

21st December 2006, 04:42

filur

21st December 2006, 04:53

A separate "patching exe file" could be distributed by the current update system, it could be designed as a launcher, notifying you if there is an update (and performing the updates), launching the game if there isn't one. In my opinion this is a slightly better design, avoiding the restart for players who want tracks loaded as LFS starts, alerting and updating for players who don't race online very often and keeping the update code separated from LFS itself.

That said, the current system is very good.

Ball Bearing Turbo

21st December 2006, 04:59

While we are on the subject of sounds, the turbocharger sound needs some help. Right now, it sounds like an oscilliscope sound, but in real life you hear what sounds like a jet engine revving up. We need the air whooshing sound of an intake to go along with the oscilliscoping to actually get that turbo sound!

BTW great job so far on the engine sounds! The cars all sound more race ready now!

:sadbanana

Have you downloaded the patch? :really:

I've said the same thing for eons - and he DID it. Note that the turbine sound is no longer the (single) sine wave it used to be, it has a few frequencies much more like a real impeller... AND, the air rushing sound has been added :tilt: . It's already far better than it was - progress has been made! :nod:

geezer45

21st December 2006, 05:04

I disagree, a separate patching .exe file would need a separate download as well. Even if LFS notifies you there's a new patch, it would take 8x as much time to look it up, download it, run it and open LFS again.
Now it's just one click in LFS you just sit back and let it do all the stuff needed.
Sorry, I should make myself more clear. I meant that the .exe doesn't just notify you if there's a patch, it actually gives you the option to download the patch. So basically this would allow you to download and install the patch before even opening LFS.

The way I see it, you open the .exe and it connects to the master server solely to work out if a new patch is available. If there is no new patch, you will be informed that you're using the latest version. If there is a patch, you will have the option to automatically download and install it. Then, depending on your settings, you will either click on the 'Start LFS' button or LFS will launch automatically. The .exe will close before the actual game .exe opens. There would also be an 'Exit' and 'Start LFS' button on the screen most of the time (all the time except for when the patch is downloading).

Does that explain it better?

Edit: Thought I should mention this again - this updater .exe would complement the current updating system. They would co-exist.

Dethred

21st December 2006, 05:28

Engine sounds have gotten a lot better. Not all the way there, but closer. Turbo sound is still bad.

Here's a 2.5L V6 (MX6) turbocharged. This car makes only a slight bit more than the in-game XR GT.

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/MX-6+turbo/0/98984b53-8e3b-4dac-8167-9847002c95c2.htm

Ball Bearing Turbo

21st December 2006, 05:50

Great video, you can really hear that that turbocharger sucks ;)

Peptis

21st December 2006, 05:56

It just plays the left pipe a tiny bit louder in your left ear and the right pipe a bit louder in your right ear. This is good because with headphones on, the sound doesn't seem to be coming from a point in the middle of your head.

I have not been able to solve this problem with single pipe engines though which only have one sound source. The separation methods I tried gave bad results, like I wanted to turn my head sideways, etc. So they are a bit too "mono".

But it works nicely in the V and flat engines, giving a "fuller" sound.

I'm an engineer and I do work in signal processing, but have limited experience in sound processing. However, that said, I have a few comments:

1. You are getting a fuller sound since you are effectively adding a simple form of reverberation. Depending on the frequencies present in the engine sound and the delay that you add you can actually work out what kinds of effects you are introducing in the frequency domain. I'm guessing that it will be low pass in nature, but you could be introducing a null (like a notch filter) in the sound if the separation is large enough.

2. Have you tried using a smaller delay (equivalent to the separation of the left and right ears) for the single exhaust case? This could be a simple hack/fix and would give you a similar effect as you're experiencing, just more subtle.

You may already do some of this already, but if you really want a more realistic sound model then you'll have to (in no particular order):

1. Model reverberation from the cabin.

2. Model reverberation from the driver's head, chest and pinna. This is usually done with a head related transfer function (HRTF). You will probably get the most pronounced improvement in sound localisation using this technique as our brains are accustomed to receiving such information.

3. Model the position of the driver's ears in real time. This can provide a great deal of immersiveness as the sound that the driver hears changes as his head moves via the g-forces that he/she experiences. Just like stereo vision, such movement can give better sound localisation in 3D space.

I'm just trying to be quick in this post, PM me if you'd like more detailed info.

(SaM)

21st December 2006, 06:57

Gentlemen, start your engines! For those that haven't noticed, a starting engine sound has now been added. Try it out by shutting down the engine with I and restarting it. :smileypul

StanleyCarter

21st December 2006, 07:13

squidhead

21st December 2006, 08:18

nice job! I especially like the autoupdate feature, and the sound of the gearbox in the road going cars while in reverse.
but since new sounds have been introduced - I cant hear the turbos, is there a cure for this? :(

frokki

21st December 2006, 08:23

I once again apologize for offtopic, but I'd really like to address special thanks for Scawen, the amount work you have done recently is really making me smile even though I havent touched (and unfortunately won't) LFS in weeks!

Keep up the good work! :thumb:

AndreABG

21st December 2006, 08:41

after downloading and installing a patch over the auto-update the game crashes when choosing "show server list". This only happens once, when in "windowed mode while connecting" and the FireWall wants authorization for changed LfS.exe

I don't know the english in-game-terms marked with "", but I hope you know what I mean

squidhead

21st December 2006, 09:06

AndreABG

21st December 2006, 09:20

yes that the firewall asks is normal, but not that LfS and the hole System freezes!

danowat

21st December 2006, 09:25

Make sure you turn off "window when connecting", I think it can sometimes cause problems with certain systems.

GeForz

21st December 2006, 09:36

Horci

21st December 2006, 09:45

Gentlemen, start your engines! For those that haven't noticed, a starting engine sound has now been added. Try it out by shutting down the engine with I and restarting it. :smileypul

Great addition, but works a little bit weird. When you start the engine, the ingnition sound "plays" which is about 1,5 - 2 secs long. But, right after you pressed the ingnition button, you get an engine sound too.
So, you get an ingnition sound, an engine sound, and 1000RPM at same time :)

Needs a little tweaking :D

nmag

21st December 2006, 09:51

Woz

21st December 2006, 10:29

I was on an Auto X server with about 3 people. We found that if two people select join at the same time they end up in the same space overlayed. After that its hard for people to join when its your turn.

Not sure if this is linked with the relax in connect/disconnect and oos errors etc

Winkel

21st December 2006, 10:43

Doh, after 5mins of playing i get a headache :schwitz: new sounds are horrible for me :really: cars sound like in GeneRally(with Funny sound theme), but there`s too much low frequencies(that play in sattelites, not in subwoofer :pillepall) in FZR at 9k rpm i get this horrible sound.

I would like sounds like this: http://www.rsc7.at/Videos/VW_11.mpg http://www.vw1303s.at/VW_3.mpg

In the attachment i put comparison of LFS GTI and GeneRally sounds ;]

The previous sounds(from U30) were much better :thumb:

P.S. after playing first time the U35 patch, shutting down LFS and starting it again my gearbox changed to H, not sequential :pillepall it happened only once.

AE86drifter

21st December 2006, 10:53

Scawen

21st December 2006, 11:08

I have problems with the U35, why when I play LFS, I always get Warning : Shadow Error?

It happens everytime I want to play. Here's the preview :

Shadow Error Problems (http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9959/shadowerrorgn6.jpg)This normally happens when you run out of texture memory. Are you using excessively high resolution texture packs, or too high a screen resolution or high res screen plus antialising, or not using compressed skins? All these things add up and then LFS doesn't work any more.

AE86drifter

21st December 2006, 11:10

This normally happens when you run out of texture memory. Are you using excessively high resolution texture packs, or too high a screen resolution or high res screen plus antialising, or not using compressed skins? All these things add up and then LFS doesn't work any more.

Okay Scawen, will check it out.:)

wabbit

21st December 2006, 11:13

well done Scawen this patch is great, all those little changes/features all add up. The sounds on the cars i tested were a huge and greatly thanked improvement. :thumb:

Niels Heusinkveld

21st December 2006, 11:51

I'm not too fond of the new sounds being labeled as an improvement! I've done some spectrum analysis (basically makes it visible how 'loud' frequencies are in a sound clip) and a high revs sliding Fz50 sees the loudness drop very quickly until about 1600hz, after which the descent in loudness continues but at this point we're at -70Db (peak in this clip is about -18).. And if the majority of the sound is ~ -20dB, you barely hear some high frequencies that are at -70db!

I don't have high quality in car sound recordings but just threw in some in car videos, captured the sound and did the same..

Nurburgring Ring Mini, high revs and sliding:
Slight bass tendency, but then constant sound pressure until dropping at 11khz

Subaru Imprezza:
Drops at 3.5khz (grunty engine, poor quality video as well)

Ruf CTR ring video:
Drops after 13Khz despite old VRC rip

The Mini and RUF videos have slightly higher quality sound but one thing is clear; by no means would near absence of sound frequencies higher than ~2khz mean 'improved'! Providing of course my sound card and LFS are 'ok' and I'm not experiencing a random bug.

I would say the last physics patch, though labeled as a big improvement, was more a 'change'. For the better, yes, but when I read 'big improvement' I tend to think 'core changes'. Same with the sound; it has changed but subjectively and semi objectively not improved.

Negative, yes.. but thats my opinion on U35..

filur

21st December 2006, 11:56

In the attachment i put comparison of LFS GTI and GeneRally sounds ;]
I think you've managed to slightly improve the LFS sound with to some added distortion. :)

Just "open the window" a bit and it should sound something like this (without the using-a-mic-to-record-speakers @ 8khz effect)

axus

21st December 2006, 12:06

Niels Heusinkveld

21st December 2006, 12:07

I didn't mention that I haven't tried any other 'unofficial' patch so I went straight to u35.

AndroidXP

21st December 2006, 12:11

Well, try U32 once, then come back thankful for U35 sounds :p

Breizh

21st December 2006, 12:13

The sound mechanics need to be in place before the sound aesthetics are tweaked.

Hyperactive

21st December 2006, 12:21

So after 5 days of testing and many thumbs up since U33, and people saying that the sound is much better than U, now that V's about to come out today (at latest tomorrow maybe), 20 people go "woah, wait, wait, I think this is worse than U"?! :( :schwitz:
Many thumbs up? What I've seen and heard when I have asked opinions about the sounds is that more people dislike them instead of giving "thumbs up". I won't tell my own honest opinion because it seems to be trolling.

The latest physics update was a major update. The latest sound update wasn't - Imho, of course.

Madman_CZ

21st December 2006, 12:26

@axus

I have just done some laps in the lx6 as i was practising for the LXCC race on saturday. Have been playing for about an hour and a half but I just cant find the taste for these sounds as they are at this moment. I do like all of the extra detail that Scawen has implemented into the sounds as it does add immersion but the roariness of the engines just isnt there at the moment.

To me it still feels like i am playing lfs and having the speakers give out the sound in the next room. It doesnt feel like the sound is coming from the engine that i am riding with.

I do agree that since u33 there has been a massive improvement with the sounds and they sound a lot better and I am sure that with every patch they will probably improve but I am not sure I will download the V patch.

@Filur: what you have done there with the distorsion is actually quite good, sounds a lot better.

Watch this video of a v8 caterham (http://media.putfile.com/Caterham-V8)

its a v8 but the lx6 should sound as roary

Keep up the good work though Scawen, its definitevly evolving.

And Merry Christmas to you!

mad

EDIT: I have just done some laps around WeshillReversed in the BF1 and found that I get a large ammounts of sound distortion when i go under the bridges. It only happens with the BF1 as i have tested it with other cars.

My system volume is at 50%

I tested it with the car volume in lfs, it isnt as bad when set to 5 but anything from 6.5-10 I get large ammounts of distortion when passing under the bridges in the BF1. I normally have the car volume set to 7 and everything else at 5.

Anyone esle find the same problem?

Gunn

21st December 2006, 12:39

Just remember that it isn't just a bunch of changed sounds, the whole way of creating the sounds is new, so there are two hills to climb. Patience grasshopper.

Winkel

21st December 2006, 13:19

30-36s of the "LFS_sound_FZR" shows the rpm sound that i don`t like in fzr ... i get a headache because of it :shrug:

These 2 files were recorded using "what u hear" from SB Live ... for me the engine sounds are sth like mono and are too silent as for RACING cars ... this type of sound you can have in a limo ;) where everything is faced with silencing mats (is my english bad? :D) to reduce the noises. Sports car should roar :thumb:i really loved the FZR engine sound from U patches :]

I already gave you links to the VW Beetle racing sound :D compare it to the new LFS sounds, the VW is really loud roaring :D

Even a normal civic vtec sounds better than LFS ;] http://youtube.com/watch?v=DZVi1D_bGtw

or other cars
http://youtube.com/watch?v=K-hEf4wo3M0
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bH34OCPh7CY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iQdG11aJ7r8 (to 1st minute)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MwlpwdjSSqY

O_O look at this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XMNqFCPlw2A :bike: (that`s nice)

Linsen

21st December 2006, 13:31

EDIT: I have just done some laps around WeshillReversed in the BF1 and found that I get a large ammounts of sound distortion when i go under the bridges. It only happens with the BF1 as i have tested it with other cars.

My system volume is at 50%

I tested it with the car volume in lfs, it isnt as bad when set to 5 but anything from 6.5-10 I get large ammounts of distortion when passing under the bridges in the BF1. I normally have the car volume set to 7 and everything else at 5.

Anyone esle find the same problem?

Well, probably yes, as said on page one of this thread, only we called it "clipping". I'm no sound-expert and I had to look up "clipping", but whatever it's called, it's very unpleasent and can't be considered normal. Maybe you could double check if we're talking about the same thing by listening to a full field of BF1s from TV-cam view? "Clipping" or "distortion" gets very bad on the fast straights when the windnoise gets louder.

Gunn

21st December 2006, 13:32

3

Even a normal civic vtec sounds better than LFS ;] Oh puh-lease. Even drowning puppies sound better than VTEC.

I think the engine sounds need a little less awww and a little more waaa. It is improving.

Goop

21st December 2006, 13:36

hi,

I haven't seen this reported yet, apologies if it's a duplicate.

Joined a high-ping (300ish) server with heaps of connections... oops. The track was changed, and the race started while I was sorting a setup. The server was fine before the track change, as was my connection, but it lagged up badly after that.

Recorded in replay:
*textures gone
*wrong way message with cars going right way
*cars (locally) bouncing over obstacles that evidently weren't there

I guess some OOS error, tho I haven't seen anything like that before. The replay shows all the textures gone, but when it was 'live', opponent's cars were bouncing around all over the place, as if they'd spawned beneath the track :shrug:

U35, and it might be worth mentioning that I've had to default temporarily to onboard gfx (unrelated :) )

[edit: also, turns out that my ISP "are currently investigating a fault on an international transmission circuit which is causing low-grade packet loss to some destinations."]

MagicFr

21st December 2006, 13:41

Stop putting video with so badly sound recording. It is just USELESS. Those microphone fully distord sound & dont get the bass.
We know LFS sounds is not good yet, but what the point linking videos with CRAP sound recording, on car we DONT have on LFS, or dont reflect what devs wants in LFS ( i.e. Roadcars != Riced car with illegal exhaust ).

XCNuse

21st December 2006, 13:45

your missing the point magic, bass or no bass it gets the point across what engines should be seemingly around in the ballpark area to start off with

also, what type of exhausts are illegal? besides straight pipe/mufflerless

and thanks to the videos i just remembered what LFS is seriously lacking in sounds; tire.. just normal tires going down the road sound, that sound of stickyness and whirring

noise_is_life

21st December 2006, 13:49

I skimmed the posts and didn't see this, but the BF1 is clipping when I look left or right (i.e. I can see the road through the car), I've been driving BF1 a lot lately and didn't notice it before U35, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there.

I'm using the standard in car view.

I get the popping/distortion in low gears too, but others have mentioned that.

Hyperactive

21st December 2006, 13:50

Legal or illegal for track use or road use? Again I'm ranting about the car types and level of tuning/race prepping... :x. At least it will be clearer what kind of cars the XRT, FZ5 and UF1 are when the new cockpits are released. :)

xaotik

21st December 2006, 14:08

tire.. just normal tires going down the road sound, that sound of stickyness and whirring

You mean the general rumbling noise made from rolling? Perhaps tweaking the "road.wav" (used to be "road.raw") sample could adjust that?

Which also brings me to mention that the road.wav is audible earlier than the engine sound is at a distance.

EDIT
Attached is a sample of the BF1 coming from the chicane and passing the camera which is stationary at the bridge. You can start hearing "road.wav" as soon as the car is at the chicane, then you hear the engine noise as it crests the "hill".

MoonForce

21st December 2006, 14:08

after sum days of playin the new sounds (U32-35), i must say i am kinda pleased for now, they are an improve so far (we all know they need more work to be really good).

i just want to say i would prefer a more hard exhaust simulation in sound for the future, i mean most of that cars are (really) racecars that should sound like RACE cars :) in RL its always chillin my neck when sitting in a race car and someone overtakes me (that CAN happen) and i listen his powerexhaust next to me, makes me more adrenalin than a loooong highspeedcorner :)

so dont forget big bad mufflers in future :)

ps: i am not a rF fan but that vid makes me wanna race that car :)
rF - RS200 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLBv5JGDq1s) rF - RS200 Cockpit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LUh1vD-4sQ)

i want that sound on FXO WRC :) just in lfs s3 style :D cheers

tiagolapa

21st December 2006, 14:09

I think you've managed to slightly improve the LFS sound with to some added distortion. :)

Just "open the window" a bit and it should sound something like this (without the using-a-mic-to-record-speakers @ 8khz effect)

That sounds pretty cool :nod:

fujiwara

21st December 2006, 14:45

That sounds pretty cool :nod:

That's what i was about to say.
The GTI sounds a way lot better.

BWX232

21st December 2006, 14:54

Tested U35
Sounds are still terribly muffled inside the car .. Overall the sound is much better, but inside the car you can't hear squat when it comes to tire scrubbing and road noise and stuff like that. All the higher pitched sounds are just *missing* or so low they might as well not be there at all. If you turn your speakers up loud enough to hear the higher pitched stuff, the speakers are making more noise than a REAL CAR.. and the tweeters aren't even working.

It Isn't just a little off, it's off so far that the most of the good sounds that you want to hear are completely inaudible. This whole "muffled sound inside the car for realism" only will work when the sounds are perfect to begin with.. Sorry but they are far from it. It sounds like you are listening to a video game with ear plugs on with very loud speakers.

What most of the cars sound like are a loud vacuum cleaner or hair dryer at different speeds.. there is a very nasty mid-range/mid-bass spike in the overall tone that just sounds bad. Taking out all the treble doesn't make it sound more realistic, it just makes it sound dead.

Just to make it *tolerable* inside the cockpit I had to use an insane curve like shown below. Inside the cockpit it actually sounds pretty good with the EQ set like this..
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9236/lfssoundjq9.jpg

Then the problem is of course replays and cameras outside the car are way too loud and screechy sounding with the equalizer set like this.. and you can hear all the pops and clicks that are usually muffled.

That's the only way to do make it *bearable* so you can play LFS for more than 5 minutes at a time if driving in cockpit mode without getting a massive headache though..

It is amazing to me that anyone could hear what it sounds like inside the cockpit of the XF GTI for example, and then just leave it like that. It MUST sound different on different sound cards. That;s the only thing that makes any sense at all. It needs *huge changes* to sound anywhere near acceptable, even tolerable without crazy EQ adjustments..

The strange thing is, you can tell a lot of work has gone into the sounds, and form the outside things are sounding great!! It's only in the cockpit view that people are being punished with this horrible muffled-droning-monotonous sound. Please at least give us a choice, let us equalize these cockpit sounds to match our hardware. The sliders as they are don't even begin to let you fix this downright painful sound. Yet the chase cam racers with game-pads get treated to all the scrubbing and road noise you could want. Frustrating. :(

p1u

21st December 2006, 15:03

I must say I am pretty happy now for the sound improvements :O
Sounds are not yet perfect, but I am happy that they are making em better :p

BWX232

21st December 2006, 15:21

Yeah they do sound pretty nice... just not inside the cockpit.

thisnameistaken

21st December 2006, 15:26

30-36s of the "LFS_sound_FZR" shows the rpm sound that i don`t like in fzr ... i get a headache because of it :shrug:

Maybe Scawen's sick of everybody racing AS3/GTR too. Think of it as a sign.

Glenn67

21st December 2006, 15:30

It is amazing to me that anyone could hear what it sounds like inside the cockpit of the XF GTI for example, and then just leave it like that.

Well I just was racing with the XF GTi for about 2 hours with U35 :tilt: it sounds not that bad to me :shrug: but I do agrea it is still pretty hard to hear what the tyres are doing :shy: (although a lot better) I was doing 15 lap races and normally do 1335x - 1338x with the inside edge of the tyres getting to around 55 - 56 deg with the U35 patch I can still get these lap times easily enough but am finding it harder to be consistent as I can't hear the tyres as well as before and they are overheating towards the end of the races as a consequnce :x .

The sound of the tyres has definately imrpoved though :) but if that is how patch V comes out I'll be editing the tyre sound files to be a little louder :shy:

As a side note, it is not just different hardware that effects how we all compare sounds it's also our ears :scratchch we will not all be equal in that department :shrug: for example I know I have above average ability at hearing the higher frequency ranges than most... but the mid range frequencies have been damaged from years of using power tools :p so what we each hear will be quite different :)

Scawen

21st December 2006, 15:31

With window while connecting activated, LFS still switches back to full screen when restarting after an auto update. This can cause problems with firewalls or virus scanners taking the focus away from LFS (this has already been reported in the old thread).OK, I think the simple solution is for the restarter program to ask you if you want to restart LFS.

So I've made it ask that question after it has done the unzipping. If you say no, it just exits and you can restart LFS whenever you like.

Please could anyone who wants to test it, put this restarter program (from the attached zip file) into your LFS folder (overwrite the existing one) so it will get a test when I put up U36 a bit later today.

alliennas

21st December 2006, 15:39

Scawen, I've requested extra unlock, sorry for disturbing you even here :shy:

GP4Flo

21st December 2006, 15:54

OK, I think the simple solution is for the restarter program to ask you if you want to restart LFS.
I'll test it, although I think that the problem could be solved without the restarter asking you. It's nice that the whole update process is so fast now without any dialog boxes and it wouldn't be good to make it more complicated.

My suggestion:

Add a line like "Autorestart 0" to the cfg.txt, with basically the same function like "Start Windowed 0". When there is an update available and window while connecting is on, LFS could set the line to 1 and LFS will be restarted in windowed mode instead of full screen. After the auto restart the line goes back to 0, so it will only start windowed once.

Scawen

21st December 2006, 15:57

Scawen, I've requested extra unlock, sorry for disturbing you even here :shy:Hi. I'm not responding to unlock requests here.

That is technical support - it's a different person. I'm too busy programming.

Breizh

21st December 2006, 16:00

So, the sounds should improve, but without the actual time and work that separates the present state of the game from the future improved states?

If it were possible to do both all the framework, and the final polishing, before Scawen and co. want to call it a year, it would be done.
It's not like the U30 sounds were realistic, nor like it will spoil appreciation of the fine tuned sounds when they do come out.

There'll be plenty of opportunities to give feedback and suggestions when the car sounds aesthetics are the focus.. right now it isn't the objective.
All the fuss in the world won't change that..

birder

21st December 2006, 16:14

I am a FZR fan so i have tried and tried the new sounds but still dislike it and the other GTR's.

I have uet to find anyone on Conedodgers who has a good word for them.

I keep trying to try tp expalin what they sound like but could not come up with anything,

Washing Machine, Poorly tuned radio, but then my wife shouted are you using the vacuum cleaner.

I have to agree with her in a test the FZR is now almost the same as my wifes Dyson.

Please give the GTR's some balls like race cars rather than a road car.

CrazyICE

21st December 2006, 16:15

I'll test it as well scawen and the idea by Flo (autorestart "0" blabla) is very good :)
agree too...
nice idea :D

axus

21st December 2006, 16:17

I'll agree that the GTRs are a sore spot with the sound updates. :shy: Virtually every other car has gotten better.

KiDCoDEa

21st December 2006, 16:19

i dont want requesters in autoupdate process, if possible. thanks.

Scawen

21st December 2006, 16:29

U36 update is online. Click list of games to get it.

I've reduced the clipping issues (which were serious as the BF1 went totally silent under the bridge due to excessive clipping) and tried to get rid of some low frequency drone in some cars, and reduce the muffled effect and increase some high frequencies in all the cars.

Also the new translator names have been added.

I hope most people think it's an improvement / doesn't give them headaches or whatever. If it's acceptable for now then U36 is a final test, and will be the same as Patch V.

Dajmin

21st December 2006, 16:29

The whole "AutoPatch Restart | Yes / No" thing should be on the options screen.

Edit:
I'm starting to wonder if Scawen is just some kind of programming machine. He doesn't seem to sleep and has given us 4 patches this week. Surely he cannot be a mere human! ;)

KiDCoDEa

21st December 2006, 16:33

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LUh1vD-4sQ is much closer to real life than lfs output. and i dont see anyone complaining OMG ITS CLIPPING.

I think you've managed to slightly improve the LFS sound with to some added distortion. :)

Just "open the window" a bit and it should sound something like this (without the using-a-mic-to-record-speakers @ 8khz effect)

Very good example, thanks. dats what i've been saying all along to a (...); posted this somewhere else but i'll paste here also (about complains on clipping bla bla):

so it should be, as far as my knowledge goes.
i am getting very tired of this clipping complex.
its all a matter of generated range being greater than the displayable audio range. dbwise, im not even talking freqwise.
if u wanted the absolute highest generated sound in lfs not to clip (lets say a 20 car pile up at same time all revving at max revs, pilling up against some SO rail all at same time and screeching tyres all at once), then the normal idle sound of a solo car in blackwood or the change gear would be generated at such a low sound u couldnt possibly hear it on ya speakers, even if u maxxed them.
the order of magnitude would be too greatly different.
any normalization/volume compression technique, i am against. sux. doesnt happen irl so it shouldn't happen in lfs.
what u should do is make the softest and quieter sound generated from lfs be barely heard in a normal volume system (100% windows sound of coz), and work the scale from there.
no compression plz, and if it clips, it clips. clipping is part of almost ALL racing vids we see. when u see (hear) someone chatting in pitbox, an then enter lemans proto and go around lemans with 700hp screaming u cant possibly ask for the recording method and the displaying medium to capture and rerender that 100% accurately as irl.
just let it clip, your ears will clip it also anyway.
work the scale (spectrum) of generated plethora of sounds but nevermind the big crash clips etc.
lowering bf1 wind is not accurate. if anything it should be even louder. both engine scream and wind turbulence should make anything else impossible to hear. yet in lfs u can still hear the skid of the slipangle at +300kmh
as if each sound/sample generated/played by lfs has its own db scale in reference to overall db spectrum. as if they werent all together in the same world. making the end result sound very abnormal and unreal. very ethereal. incredibly synth in the bad meaning of the word. defying immersion instead of helping it. as u know a blank space is filled by our imagination, but if a dreadful drawing is there , our imagination cant fill it with beauty. get my drift?
anything magical u wanna introduce me to, be my guest. im all ears.

DanneDA

21st December 2006, 16:34

Tested upgrade to U36 w/ your altered restart exe and got a problem when LFS was restarted.
LFS was went to fullscreen, but wasn't focused. I had to use Alt+Tab to get LFS to regain focus to be able to do anything in LFS.

Edit: What's up with the Username/Password popup for "Private" at http://www.liveforspeed.net, shown here on the forum?

tristancliffe

21st December 2006, 16:38

Edit: What's up with the Username/Password popup for "Private" at http://www.liveforspeed.net, shown here on the forum? I just got that too - very odd.

Cr45h

21st December 2006, 16:40

Hm... I just have test U35 patch in demo server (XFG on Blackwood GP), and I noticed a change in velocity...

Maybe for this update:

"Realistic speedometer based on drive shaft speed"

Ex: Now I made the corner after the long straight at 112 113 and before this patch I made it at about 108 109. But the final time is always the same... So what I have noticed this change. Is normally? And the car seems to be more stable and easy to drive.

Is it possible?

(P.S: Sorry for english not perfect...)

tristancliffe

21st December 2006, 16:41

It's a change in the speedo - it now works like a real speedo and takes the speed from the differential rather than the velocity vector of the whole car, and also takes into account wheel slip (which is always present when moving).

marcione

21st December 2006, 16:44

new restart exe works fine here :nod:

Winkel

21st December 2006, 16:46

Yay, now I don`t get headache in FZR :thumb: and i even better hear the engine sounds, but still i feel like in a muffler :scratchch hope it changes in some version, so it`ll be loud and roary :D

Pakalulu

21st December 2006, 16:52

Just went from U35 to U36, with the altered restart.exe.
After updating LFS shuts down. A question pops up 'do you want to restart LFS'. After clicking 'yes', LFS restarts in full screen, same like it always does and has focus.

The new sounds are a great effort imo.
:thumb:

Ger Roady

21st December 2006, 16:56

Edit: What's up with the Username/Password popup for "Private" at http://www.liveforspeed.net, shown here on the forum?

It seems to be only in the test patch forum :shrug:

mrodgers

21st December 2006, 16:57

Yay, now I don`t get headache in FZR :thumb: and i even better hear the engine sounds, but still i feel like in a muffler :scratchch hope it changes in some version, so it`ll be loud and roary :D
Glad to hear this. I just tried U35 last night and really like everything from my brief test drives in all the cars. FZR is my favorite and I wasn't pleased with it running last night. I wasn't going to comment as there has been plenty of "vacuum cleaner" and "headache" comments already. Can't wait till tonight now to check the FZR in U36.

Autoupdate: Just wanted to comment here about autoupdate. As everyone else knows I'm on dialup and wanted to say patch 33, 34, and 35 (all at once, 3.x mb) went VERY smooth and quick with the dialup last night. Even from the US to the UK. Nice job.

Belain

21st December 2006, 16:59

Scawen

21st December 2006, 17:02

now the only thing i'd like to see is a slider in the options for something like "Main Volume".
Since the new patch i set up my own kind of volume settings...but sometimes i just want it louder or more quiet because of ventrilo in the background so like a General / Main Volume setting would be great so i dont have to set the volume settings all by their own again :-/Just so you know - the "car volume" does affect all car volumes. It affects wind and skids as well. not just the engine.

The skid / wind / echo are all "boost" sliders (though not all translations say that). So they are only relative.

So, my point is, if you don't have music playing in LFS then you would only need to move the car and interface volume sliders.

birder

21st December 2006, 17:07

I just got that too - very odd.

Me too,

Plus the FZR sound in U36 is even worse, at 5000 to 6000rpm is starts to make an engine sound then it goes away to just the vacuum cleaner.

DanneDA

21st December 2006, 17:08

I still think the BF1 is a little off...

This is a video of a Renault V8:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7393939630149644203
And a Cosworth at 20k rpm:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=199407968723223473

Compare that to the attached .wma (in the .zip file), it becomes clear that the BF1 is lacking some of the sound of a F1 V8.

I wish LFS could have some of these sounds, if possible. Not in patch V but maybe in patch W or X (or whatever they'll be named later).

Belain

21st December 2006, 17:15

Just so you know - the "car volume" does affect all car volumes. It affects wind and skids as well. not just the engine.

The skid / wind / echo are all "boost" sliders (though not all translations say that). So they are only relative.

So, my point is, if you don't have music playing in LFS then you would only need to move the car and interface volume sliders.
alright then thank u very much...i think i was just to stupid to find that out myself :pillepall

keep up the good work!

birder

21st December 2006, 17:16

Since U36 i am getting hanging going from single player, garage and other screens. The revolving car stops and everything hangs for about 10 seconds.

Also had a strange message when closing down.

"Connect 2 Closing" then "Connect 1 Closing"

I have also checked other car sounds and most have a Band of high sound at about 2/3 throttle with low volume after.

MoonForce

21st December 2006, 17:18

hi, is the master server offline?

couz since 18:10 i cant join s2 multiplayer

edit: restart system solved it (i guess)

axus

21st December 2006, 17:27

:( All cars bar the FZR sound worse over here. I felt completely unimmersed. With U35 I could close my eyes and think "yeah, that sounds like a car on a track, pretty much." Now, when I do the same, I've no idea what's going on. I can't even put my finger on what's not right. If these are patch V sounds, I'll just go back to U35 I guess... :shrug:

EDIT: I can't understand how and why people got headaches with U35, I think its down to sound equipment more than LFS and their equipment being unable to play the frequencies needed by LFS. So now I think there's a gap between 100 and 200Hz, making the sound unbearable on more high end equipment.

noise_is_life

21st December 2006, 17:30

I just realized that what I was interpreting as distortion or popping in the BF1 is actually traction control which has a different/louder/harsher sound now.

Ger Roady

21st December 2006, 17:39

The new sounds are a great effort imo.
:thumb:

Me too,

Plus the FZR sound in U36 is even worse, at 5000 to 6000rpm is starts to make an engine sound then it goes away to just the vacuum cleaner.

:( All cars bar the FZR sound worse over here. I felt completely unimmersed. With U35 I could close my eyes and think "yeah, that sounds like a car on a track, pretty much." Now, when I do the same, I've no idea what's going on. I can't even put my finger on what's not right. If these are patch V sounds, I'll just go back to U35 I guess... :shrug:

I hear absolut no changes :really:

woolfen

21st December 2006, 17:40

how i cam found an activ key
the prog said wait 1 month for that
arghhhhhh !!!

geeman1

21st December 2006, 17:41

:( All cars bar the FZR sound worse over here. I felt completely unimmersed. With U35 I could close my eyes and think "yeah, that sounds like a car on a track, pretty much." Now, when I do the same, I've no idea what's going on. I can't even put my finger on what's not right. If these are patch V sounds, I'll just go back to U35 I guess... :shrug:
Yeah. The sounds are somehow tamer and quieter. Probably because of the clipping "problem" some people had. :shrug:

Winkel

21st December 2006, 17:42

All cars except formulas and FZR give me headache at about 6800-7000RPM, where i hear the peak 'bass' sound. Only the FZR is correct for me :thumb: because it is improved now... if all cars sounds were improved like the FZR was, it`ll be good[for my health ;) no headaches :P]

Anyone else having the same problem? :schwitz:

lococost

21st December 2006, 17:43

U36 update is online. Click list of games to get it.

get rid of some low frequency drone in some cars, and reduce the muffled effect and increase some high frequencies in all the cars.
.

Plz Scawen, this going in the right direction, but we need more of this, really let yourself go, the low frequenties now sound like an open intake, sausage filter kind of thing which is good, I like the higher frequenties, but plz amplify them more, the GTRs, LXes have no sound proofing, higher freqenties will resonate against all the sheet metal, the resonation will give more amplitude at specific frequenties, its all about making the sound less clean and as kidcodea indicates, screw all the clipping issues, we need clipping, if you go to a race with a full grid of LXes the same thing will happen to your ears, its natural.

I'm still having problems with the gearwhine repeating itself on the FXR FZR and XRR. I have a very decent senheiser headset so its not that. This really should be resolved.

AndroidXP

21st December 2006, 17:43

:( All cars bar the FZR sound worse over here. I felt completely unimmersed. With U35 I could close my eyes and think "yeah, that sounds like a car on a track, pretty much." Now, when I do the same, I've no idea what's going on. I can't even put my finger on what's not right. If these are patch V sounds, I'll just go back to U35 I guess... :shrug:Haven't done much testing, but from the first impressions I have to agree with this. U36 sounds worse than U35, IMO. (But not much.)

Flycantbird

21st December 2006, 17:46

Just did the U36 autoupdate - everything is fine, but I wasn't asked if I wanted to restart LFS - it behaved just as the previous patches, went through the install and came back to LFS.

No problems, everything works fine. The slight increase in higher frequencies ( if that's what has occured) is better.

No clipping with the BF1.

Thanks to Scawen for excessive output over the last week !
Enjoy your well deserved Holiday break.

tiagolapa

21st December 2006, 17:46

how i cam found an activ key
the prog said wait 1 month for that
arghhhhhh !!!

Your solution for that problem is not in this thread :shrug:

I can notice the small improvements. Autoupdate is working fine.
The more i play, the more i can see news sounds are great and are clearly the way to go forward. Great simulated sound. Not perfect, but time will tell.

To dev: Release patch V and enjoy you vacation. You deserve it.

Happy Christmas to all :thumb:

Meanie

21st December 2006, 17:47

What i would like to know is if Patch V will be a compatible patch with U30.
If yes, it's all good, i"ll keep using it till the sound gets where i think it's better.

If not... :x

ps: i've read all THIS thread and saw nothing abou it...

axus

21st December 2006, 17:52

What i would like to know is if Patch V will be a compatible patch with U30.

Yes, it will be compatible. As far as I know. :)

I think not all the work from U35 -> U36 is a complete step backwards btw. The clipping issue being resolved is obviously good and the new FZR sound file (assuming something's changed on the sound file) is probably better. :shy:

(SB Live!, Sennheiser HD-595 running straight from the sound card)

f1r3b4ll

21st December 2006, 17:53

My framerate is now locked at 64fps when I have Vsync on and it should be locking at 70fps - It has only been doing this since U35...

Resolution = 1280x800 @ 70hz

spankmeyer

21st December 2006, 18:01

Honestly! I'm digging these very much, thank you sir! The terrible boomyness is finally gone! Keep those audio sliders cranked to the max, baby! :thumb:

My game audio setup equals:
Audigy2 -> Logitech Z-2200 THX certified (or Sennheiser HD280 Pro) -> my ears -> brain says: "Sounds pretty good!"

EDIT: Had no auto-updater problems going from U33 to U36.

Dr Dink

21st December 2006, 18:03

after downloading the automatic updates after U32 I get this error message.....

lfs_restart.exe has caused an error and has had to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

Anyway to stop this or fix it?

Marius[PX]

21st December 2006, 18:04

sound is a bit better , bet still sux :x :x

sinbad

21st December 2006, 18:08

Haven't done much testing, but from the first impressions I have to agree with this. U36 sounds worse than U35, IMO. (But not much.)

Agree wholeheartedly. BF1 particularly sounds bad (imo). I thought it sounded ok in one the previous versions, more so from outside than onboard, but I'm starting to lose track (definitely wasn't U32 though).

Omen

21st December 2006, 18:09

I think the FZR must be more roary (like the FXR and XRR) and the TC of the BF1 makes some strange noises.

Will patch V be the final sound improvement patch or will be there more sound patches after patch V?

Someone know how to make the pitspotter sound lower, because its very loud since the new sound patch and i dont want to put the lfs sound at maximum?

Victor

21st December 2006, 18:09

screw all the clipping issues, we need clipping, if you go to a race with a full grid of LXes the same thing will happen to your ears, its natural.
if that's natural in your ears, you should go see a doc :D

Clipping definately is NOT a natural fenomenon. It's a mostly digital thing.

You ears compress loud sounds, but they do not clip.

Jakg

21st December 2006, 18:09

LX6 - teh smex, thank you!

SlamDunk

21st December 2006, 18:17

With U35 I could close my eyes and think "yeah, that sounds like a car on a track, pretty much." Now, when I do the same, I've no idea what's going on. I can't even put my finger on what's not right. If these are patch V sounds, I'll just go back to U35 I guess... :shrug:
I'm one of the few who had clipping problems and I agree with you. The sound of BF1 now feels kind of tame. It was great in U35.

Flycantbird

21st December 2006, 18:27

I suspect that some of what occurs in the cockpit is a result of phase cancellation - is this possible ? If for example, if you are driving an open cockpit car, your head is splitting the wind ( that which is reaching the center of your visor), and sending basically the same audio data to both sides of your head, more or less simultaneously.

If that is the case there would be random moments of phase cancellation, I suspect.

Anyway, I kind of interpreted the previous patch sound deviations as this, and wasn't particularly bothered by it.

(not saying it wasn't clipping, just it didn't bother me).

axus

21st December 2006, 18:32

The U -> U35 archive should work to go back from U36 to U35, correct?

I'd also like to add that I'm getting some weird resonance-like sound, cycling every thousand rpm or so (the cycle seems to be longer in a higher gear) with U36. Its not loud at all and hardly audiable but still there if you listen. This is pretty much in every car. :(

I think I can hear Scawen's roar of frustration with these patches and feedback from here... its so inconsistent.

lococost

21st December 2006, 18:33

if that's natural in your ears, you should go see a doc :D

Clipping definately is NOT a natural fenomenon. It's a mostly digital thing.

You ears compress loud sounds, but they do not clip.

I'm sure you've been to an F1 race, to make the example even more obvious, the sound is not compressed when the full grid leaves the starting line, your ears just cant handle it, if that sound would just be compressed, as in the amplitude would be somehow lowered, it would sound as clear as... well as lfs... But somehow I dont think anyone experiences an F1 race like that.

Could be all wrong here, maybe the LFS sound is great and i should really see a doctor.

If you ever been to I love techno, a large indoor techno event, you might have experienced the same thing...
Yeah, sorry, I really should see a doctor shouldnt I :D

EsCoRt RaLLy

21st December 2006, 18:37

After i installed this patch the messages saying "You entered pitlane." and "Exited Pitlane." is not shown anymore. Anyone knows how to get them back? Kinda annoying to guess when i can turn pitlimiter off. I also had to unlock LFS again, is it supposed to be like that? Otherwise a great patch! :thumb:

AndroidXP

21st December 2006, 18:38

1) You can't get them back
2) Read the release notes before installing a patch ;)

mrodgers

21st December 2006, 18:41

I suspect that some of what occurs in the cockpit is a result of phase cancellation - is this possible ? If for example, if you are driving an open cockpit car, your head is splitting the wind ( that which is reaching the center of your visor), and sending basically the same audio data to both sides of your head, more or less simultaneously.

That isn't phase cancellation. Phase cancellation is when, for example, you wire up your speakers opposite to one another. Ie, you wire left + to + and - to -, then the right + to - and - to +. That is phase cancellation.

spankmeyer

21st December 2006, 18:46

Well... yes... that's an extreme example of phase cancellation. But phase shifts and phase cancellation are happening all the time around us. Actually every physical soundwave moving through the air into your big floppy ears is phase shifted or cancelled to some degree.

By nature, everything is EQd.

Flycantbird

21st December 2006, 18:53

Doh, spankmeyer beat me to it. Regardless of everything else, I think it's time to release patch V and move forward. Just spent a lot of time reading through some of the 'spinoff' topics in here, and now have even more respect for Scawen and company, not just for their vision, but for their
amazingly thick skin and ability to express themselves ( sometimes over and over) in eloquent terms.

For what it's worth, I love LFS and I love the journey.

That isn't phase cancellation. Phase cancellation is when, for example, you wire up your speakers opposite to one another. Ie, you wire left + to + and - to -, then the right + to - and - to +. That is phase cancellation.

That is an example of phase cancellation, however audio phase cancellation occurs when a single acoustical source is picked up by two different microphones ( or ears in this case).

The difference in distance from the source and the microphone will cause the phase to be different, and when the two signals are combined, some phase cancellation occurs, and the quality and tonality of the sound is affected. How they are affected depends on the composition of the sound in question, but at some points, the wave forms enhance certain frequencies, at other points, they can cancel certain frequencies.

jamvib

21st December 2006, 19:09

I'm not really understood what you mean there. Anyway Noise cancellation is an effect of "Destructive interference" between sound waves, and happens to occur at a phase difference of 180º (maximum cancellation). The source of this difference can be several things (distance between sound sources, wave travelling with different speeds, i.e. different matter, etc) all related to the wave path.

Anyway and coming back to the topic. The Sounds have definitely improved from last patch.
With U34-U35 and the BF1 at seven gear and maximum RPM in the Blackwood's straight I had experienced the sound very distorted. Now that has been solved, and the sound is smashing.

Regarding Xmas breaks, have the best of luck with the latest Travel Chaos.

axus

21st December 2006, 19:13

I'm not really understood what you mean there. Anyway Noise cancellation is an effect of "Destructive interference" between sound waves, and happens to occur at a phase difference of 180º (maximum cancellation). The source of this difference can be several things (distance between sound sources, wave travelling with different speeds, i.e. different matter, etc) all related to the wave path.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_superposition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_difference#Phase_difference

Basic wave stuff :)

Ball Bearing Turbo

21st December 2006, 19:15

This is the first time I write on the forums, although I am a very old (offline)racer on LFS.

I believe that the gear whine noise should still be heard when we press the clutch and the car is still moving with a selected gear. It should stop only we select neutral. When we have a gear selected and we press the clutch the gears in the gearbox still rotate fast, at the speed of the wheels, so they still make noise.
:thumb:

Welcome to the Forums!

This is correct behaviour because under those conditions, there is no torque being transferred through the gears. In a manual all gears are enmeshed all the time, even in N. Selecting a gear engages one of the ratios which are otherwise able to rotate independantly of the input shaft. Perhaps in the GTRs, a tiny bit of whine should be present even when not under load just beacuse the cars are thin as metal. In this case, even in N with the clutch out you should hear a tiny bit of whine. Clutch IN while stationary in N you could then hear the shafts slowly come to a halt due to their own friction. In LFS as it is, try level off the throttle just barely maintain speed, even slightly decelerate if there is a lot of aerodynamic resistance - you shoul dhear the whine cease because the load is neutral at that point. If you then either let off completely or try to accel, you should hear whine. Again, this is correct behaviour.

Edit: Perhaps only Differential noise could be still heard, but for trans whine, what I said applies. Not sure how noisy differentials really are TBH, someone could enlighten me.

Vain

21st December 2006, 19:31

I was testing sound-equalizing in U35 via DirectX-software when U36 came out, so I had a good comparison.
And my opinion is that the FZ 50 has taken a huge leap in the right direction. It might be the very first time I have heard the hint of a functional engine in LFS! (There was a very slight roaring of an engine beneath that excessive mid-bandwith sound we already knew.)
It was pretty amazing, actually. :tilt:
I liked the direction most other cars have taken too, and I'd appreciate it a lot if future patches would continue to do so.

Please consider spending one complete week of the new year only comparing real in-car footage to LFS cars until you get the dimensions of all involved sound-components right for each car.

Vain

nesrulz

21st December 2006, 19:36

New lfs_restart.exe work fine here... :)

Zero7

21st December 2006, 19:38

I've just updated from U34 to U35 then U35 to U36 using the auto update feature, which seemed to go ok (both files downloaded and extracted when LFS had closed).

Started a Single Player game on KY1, chose the FZR with a setup - Inferno Valky1239 set, clicked Start and then LFS locked (car stopped spinning) and I couldn't CTRL+ALT+DEL. Had to power off and restart.

Restarted OK, and loaded LFS ok after that. Unfortunately I don't have a crash dump file (unless you know where it's located?).

chunkyracer

21st December 2006, 19:39

To dev: Release patch V and enjoy you vacation. You deserve it.

Happy Christmas to all :thumb:

I must agree with Tiago. I think is time to release what you think are the best sounds and let it go for a while. It´s the same of making a song: when you get stuck it's better to leave it for some time. When you listen to it again you´ll see it in a very different way and it´s easier to know what to do to make it better... So, have a merry christmas, enjoy your vacation and we all gonna be around the next year racing, and trying to help you make LFS even better than it already is!:thumb:

wheel4hummer

21st December 2006, 19:46

Sound in U35 is better than the rest of the test patches. Obviosly room for improvement though.

alliennas

21st December 2006, 19:46

I must agree with Tiago. I think is time to release what you think are the best sounds and let it go for a while. It´s the same of making a song: when you get stuck it's better to leave it for some time. When you listen to it again you´ll see it in a very different way and it´s easier to know what to do to make it better... So, have a merry christmas, enjoy your vacation and we all gonna be around the next year racing, and trying to help you make LFS even better than it already is!:thumb:

you agree with Tiago, I agree with you :)

mrfell

21st December 2006, 19:48

WOW, the FOX has suddenly grown a massive set of BOLLOCKS!!!
The best sounding car there is so far!!!!!
Puts the F08 in the shade ATM.

Fantastic work

Andrew

MillerM

21st December 2006, 19:57

Indeed.. FOX is great!

Overal there is a massive improvement in sound every testpatch since U32! U36 is the best ever! Only I did prefer the slightly more dampened sound on the FZ5, it seemed more like a road-going porsche.

Anyway great work. Happy holidays! :)

NeonMuffler

21st December 2006, 19:59

it aint working for me:(

when i chose the driver i used as always, it says that it cant open the file:S

uttoro

21st December 2006, 20:00

Hi!

I'm kinda happy with the gearwhine sounds.But is it correct?

In the racecars that use straight cut gears(and maybe the LX6), its naturally, that you hear the gearwhine.

But why can we hear gearwhine in UF1, XFG, XGR? If its possible to hear gearwhine in XGR, then where is the gearwhine in XRT?

If XRT gears ar stronger than XRG, and XRG's gears are more stressed, so that's why it produces more noise, then LX4 gearwhine shouldn't be louder than LX6?

I don't know how LFS sound engine works, but it seems, that every car generates gearwhine, and in some cars gearwhine volume is turned down.

About the redline sounds: BF1 behaves like a real car at redline. Let's check the road cars; UF1, XFG.... at redline, the rpm stays at a certain value, popcorn sounds. In real car: at redline, the rpm falls back suddenly, and reaches redline again, the rpm falls suddenly, and reaches redline again,....

Am I wrong?

There is no point hurrying a patch, if these questions aren't answered. We can wait.

sinbad

21st December 2006, 20:05

WOW, the FOX has suddenly grown a massive set of BOLLOCKS!!!
The best sounding car there is so far!!!!!
Puts the F08 in the shade ATM.

Fantastic work

Andrew

Yep FOX is good, it makes FO8 and BF1 sound like kazoos. Really need to prevent the over-rev on flat-shifting in those cars too, it just sounds so weird and wouldn't it be impossible in real-life?

Ball Bearing Turbo

21st December 2006, 20:12

Really need to prevent the over-rev on flat-shifting in those cars too, it just sounds so weird and wouldn't it be impossible in real-life?

Why?

LFS does not incorporate true sequential transmissions at this point...

biggie

21st December 2006, 20:12

Gentlemen, start your engines! For those that haven't noticed, a starting engine sound has now been added. Try it out by shutting down the engine with I and restarting it. :smileypul

I've played a little with the sound SaM posted and I think I've managed to somewhat improve it. I've basically bumped up the mids&highs (> 1.5 KHz) a lot to get rid of the "in-helmet" feeling. Then I've added more deep bass (80-160 Hz), while making the midbass (200-400 Hz) frequencies a little quieter in comparison to the other parts of the spectrum. The ~400 Hz frequencies (400 Hz = telephone tone) seemed way too loud to my ears before.

I've attached two proper sound samples and also a screenshot of the EQ settings for "lfs_sound8". This might help Scawen when making possible sound tweaks.
"lfs_sound3" is the result of playing a bit more with various filters. While that sound is obviously very much distorted, I thought it had a very nice flavour to it during the full throttle phase :D
It consists of two layers of the engine sound (1 of the layers tweaked with a very odd filter) with a slight offset of ~1 millisecond.
This would surely be too complicated to reproduce from within LFS, but I thought someone else might enjoy hearing it.

Please note that I've tested these sounds on a fairly high-end system (Sennheiser HD650s + good sound cards), so I can't say how well the sounds work on lesser systems.

csimpok

21st December 2006, 20:18

Wow, sound 7 and rather sound 3 sounds great.

lambchop44

21st December 2006, 20:20

That sounds awesome!!! I love #3! LOVE IT!!!

sinbad

21st December 2006, 20:26

Why?

LFS does not incorporate true sequential transmissions at this point...

F1 cars and GP2 cars with sequential shifters allow flat-shifting, and it cuts the throttle for you, so perhaps that's why.

Ball Bearing Turbo

21st December 2006, 20:32

Bladerunner

21st December 2006, 20:35

.....so I can't say how well the sounds work on lesser systems.

I have a bog-standard AC97 onboard card and cheap Argos headphones....
and #3 sounds awesome!! :)

(btw...I am registered hearing-impaired :D)

XCNuse

21st December 2006, 20:37

just got back yesterday and installed patch, thanks scawen, the clicking 'bug' has been fixed ;)

sinbad

21st December 2006, 20:41

Yeah that was my point... you can turn on "throttle cut on upshift" for sequential "mode" in LFS at the moment. But until sequential transmissions are made (it's on the list) we're stuck with that.

EDIT: wow, biggie, #3 sounds really cool.

Sorry, what was your point? Basically you've just said that it's possible in LFS, and I knew that already.

Don't have to tell me what's on "the list", but even something as simple as forcing throttle cut and sequential shifting for those two cars isn't beyond the realms of possibility, and since this is a sound-focused thread I thought I'd mention it.
If you're happy with the way the cars "toot" everytime they shift, then perhaps your standards/expectations a bit lower than mine, just seems a shame to go to all this trouble and still have them scream like that whenever people change gear :)

Tube

21st December 2006, 20:43

if you can make it sound like biggie's sound #3, it'll be a step into the right direction.

biggie

21st December 2006, 20:53

Madman_CZ

21st December 2006, 20:56

Hello, u36 i thought improved the majority of cars. It just goes to show how everyone has different opinions of whats sounds correct. At this rate Scawen will be adjusting the sounds all the time and someone will always find something wrong with them.

I was wondering though whether anyone knew where i could get hold of u30,u31,u32,u33,u34,u35 test patches? I would like to do more comparing and a few tests for my own pleasure.

If anyone has links could you please pm me.. cheers

Nice work Scawen

mad

marcione

21st December 2006, 21:01

[X] i vote for #3 ;-)

Esrever

21st December 2006, 21:03

I was wondering though whether anyone knew where i could get hold of u30,u31,u32,u33,u34,u35 test patches?

I've got :
LFS_U32_TO_U33.exe
LFS_U33_TO_U34.exe
LFS_U34_TO_U35.exe
LFS_U35_TO_U36.exe

The rest you can download from the LFS site.

I don't know if Scawen would let me post these?

except for u31, I don't think it was public?

Lampost22

21st December 2006, 21:09

[X] i vote for #3 ;-)

[X] !!! :D :thumb:

f1r3b4ll

21st December 2006, 21:12

Wahhhhhh the sounds

heres an idea, mute all the audio from LFS and make your own using just your mouth...
works a treat
BRmmmmmmmmmmmm brrrmmmmmmm neeeoooowwwnnnn neeoooowwnnn

csimpok

21st December 2006, 21:15

No love for #8 or #7 so far? I think these sound pretty decent too and should be "fairly easy" to implement.

About #3: if I had known before that everyone digs it so much, I'd have noted exactly how I did it. Unfortunately I can't seem to reproduce it anymore (originating from the base sound) :x

Sound 7 and 8 has kind of "jet" feeling because of the gearwhine which makes them quite similar to the actual sounds in U36 patch. But in Sound 3 the engine sound (which is quite good there) dominates therefore it sounds like a car :)
So maybe conclusion is that gearwhine in current version is a bit exaggerated.

KiDCoDEa

21st December 2006, 21:29

Clipping definately is NOT a natural fenomenon. It's a mostly digital thing.

You ears compress loud sounds, but they do not clip.

he didnt say it was a natural phenomenon. he and i said it would happen irl also. not everything that happens irl is natural. ill skip the fag joke here.
what currently compresses (and abnormally at that) is lfs. so scared it is of clipping. thats part of why it sounds tiny. bee scale tiny.
as far as clipping being a digital phenomenon... maybe this will help reconsider
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)

(SaM)

21st December 2006, 22:04

Here's the correct Wiki link. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio))

xaotik

21st December 2006, 22:18

he and i said it would happen irl also. not everything that happens irl is natural.

If in IRL you mean on a TV broadcast or an incar video then yes, very likely you would have clipping, although nowadays it seems that limiters are usually applied.

what currently compresses (and abnormally at that) is lfs. so scared it is of clipping. thats part of why it sounds tiny. bee scale tiny.

Actually no. Compression would actually have the opposite effect of what you describe - it would make the volume seem louder without causing clipping. Using compression as a limiter is generally a good idea, getting it to properly compress the sound and give priority to certain frequencies is a different story.

Clipping is just distortion, unecessary and very annoying in the digital medium. If you want loud sound that will cause your ears to bleed and your neighbors to scream then just get a bigger soundsystem and crank it up. Personally I wouldn't want to listen to distortion when playing on large speakers - it would just be loud distortion while it should be loud sound. Causing clipping on purpose to make it "sound loud" when played at lower volume is surely not the way to go.

Ball Bearing Turbo

21st December 2006, 22:41

Sorry, what was your point? Basically you've just said that it's possible in LFS, and I knew that already.

My point was that it's a transmission simulation limitation in the current version of LFS, NOT a sound limitation. For what it does, the sound is correct. It's what is happening mechanically that is wrong. As stated, if you hate it, then use the option that you said yourself you knew is already there.

jamesgp2viper

21st December 2006, 22:52

If in IRL you mean on a TV broadcast or an incar video then yes, very likely you would have clipping, although nowadays it seems that limiters are usually applied.

Actually no. Compression would actually have the opposite effect of what you describe - it would make the volume seem louder without causing clipping. Using compression as a limiter is generally a good idea, getting it to properly compress the sound and give priority to certain frequencies is a different story.

Clipping is just distortion, unecessary and very annoying in the digital medium. If you want loud sound that will cause your ears to bleed and your neighbors to scream then just get a bigger soundsystem and crank it up. Personally I wouldn't want to listen to distortion when playing on large speakers - it would just be loud distortion while it should be loud sound. Causing clipping on purpose to make it "sound loud" when played at lower volume is surely not the way to go.

Totally agree.

I would like LFS to have some kind of compression to prevent clipping. However it is something that would take a lot of time to implement correctly and it's not that important issue.

I must also say, I'm very impressed with how the sound engine has been improved so much in just a few days. It's really come such a long way and I think I can honestly say LFS has the best sounds of any racing sim now. A week or two ago I would have said it had the worst! :D

GFresh

21st December 2006, 22:59

Is anyone else loving the sound of the LX4 as much as me? Sure its still a little muffled, but i've literally been smashing it round AS Cadet rev for the last hour or so and i'm loving it :thumb:

wheel4hummer

21st December 2006, 23:04

Yes, it actually screams when it is revving at 7000rpm it sounds SO SWEET! In addition, the FZ5 actually sounds like a Porsche!

Boris Lozac

21st December 2006, 23:10

Is anyone else loving the sound of the LX4 as much as me? Sure its still a little muffled, but i've literally been smashing it round AS Cadet rev for the last hour or so and i'm loving it :thumb:

Yep, it sounds great, i practice with it these days for our upcoming OPS race, and it sounds absolutely great! Also drove the XFR yesterday, and it's awesome too!
But also those sounds when you go near another car, i have to say it again, it's amazing! so immersive!
Way to go Scawen! :thumb:

Ball Bearing Turbo

21st December 2006, 23:23

I must inquire - Why do the FXO / FXR not sound like flat fours very much anymore? :scratchch

Used to be instantly recognizable; now not so much..... When testing the FXR I actually though I selected the wrong car!

BWX232

21st December 2006, 23:33

U36 is SO MUCH BETTER... that really bad droning sound is diminished quite a bit.

I started testing and noticed something.. something I already knew... but when you hear it, the difference is amazing.

I was testing the UF -
When inside the car revving the engine in neutral:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7146/insideufhe3.jpg

It sounds better than it did, but still lacks a whole lot of upper range sound because of the fact that it is actually simulating the inside of a car.. The engine sounds kind of flat.. kind of electronic even.. A little synthetic sounding.

Now, (I am in the "custom view")- I move just to the outside of the car and do the exact same thing, rev the car a little.. even drive it around the track...

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2122/outufjn2.jpg

What do I hear now? I hear a living breathing engine.. I can hear all the valves slapping against springs, the rotating cams- etc, etc.. It just sounds like an engine to me. All the upper range sound is still hard to hear, but it is audible and it blends in with those lower pitched sounds- and magically it sounds like an engine instead of something synthetic and electronically generated. Along with that I can hear the tires on the road, the slightest "scrubbing" of the tires, etc.. I STILL think it could use less mid-bass and more deep bass overall to fill out my subwoofer better, but still, to me it sounds better that when you are inside the car.

Maybe there could be an option to "fake" what it sounds like outside the car while you are inside it? Or maybe just don't cut out the engine sounds quite as much (or have an option to set it like that)?

It seems like all that thin metal on a car like that would resonate the engine sounds more than dampen them anyway. When you can hear it, that engine sound really sounds cool, you can almost see the engine in your head because it sounds so realistic, but as soon as your POV moves behind the firewall.. it all goes away. At least on my sound card/speakers. EDIT_ THIS SI WITH A FLATTENED OUT EQ.. not the crazy curve I had before.

Try it with the UF.. It's quite a big difference when you poke your head out the window. I can see where these sounds are going though, what an improvement from just 2 days ago.

Ger Roady

21st December 2006, 23:44

Ok., now it shoud stop for the rest of the year. Give this man and his family a break.Scaven : Release what ever you think you should release and give us also a break :D pleeeeeeease .

Rtsbasic

22nd December 2006, 00:04

The newest patch sounds are very promising..based on the demo cars anyway, out of unlocks :( But based on them, I think the CSR mod might have a lot less users shortly.

XCNuse

22nd December 2006, 00:07

screw CSR, the new sounds are fantastic, now i need to get my new speakers, my C577 isn't worthy of bass anymore lol
http://techshop.earthlink.net/images/I183426.jpg

instead im getting these:
http://img.clubic.com/photo/00146115.jpg

...maybe i'll use all of them hmmm

Boris Lozac

22nd December 2006, 00:07

The newest patch sounds are very promising..based on the demo cars anyway, out of unlocks :( But based on them, I think the CSR mod might have a lot less users shortly.

I stoped using CSR :) It's a great mod, but it gave me headaches when mixed with LFS sounds... and with these new sounds Scawen created, there is no more need for CSR.. :nod:

nesrulz

22nd December 2006, 00:19

I stoped using CSR :) It's a great mod, but it gave me headaches when mixed with LFS sounds... and with these new sounds Scawen created, there is no more need for CSR.. :nod:

Yeah! :lfs: (www.liveforspeed.net)

SladiVadi

22nd December 2006, 00:22

I updated to U36and there was no dialogue asking for restart (a progress bar was new).

Also why is the "Download now" button there? When I click on it I am asked to choose a mirror and then I don't need the button either.

I like the new sounds. :D

jamvib

22nd December 2006, 00:30

Some people have asked that question before... including myself the first time, but I think if you omit that button from the interface people would come to the forum asking "where is the xxx button to download? there are some http addresses but no button or whatsover to download ..." So for me it works as an "informative" button that I've only pressed the first time. Correct me if im wrong...

axus

22nd December 2006, 00:36

The restart_lfs thing is only updated AFTER the patch, so you will only notice it next patch.

StanleyCarter

22nd December 2006, 00:52

Seems like U36 is sounding great from most of the post so far, I just downloaded at the last second before I've gone to work (LFS still on!), can't wait till I get home tonight to test it out!

Shotglass

22nd December 2006, 00:55

he didnt say it was a natural phenomenon. he and i said it would happen irl also. not everything that happens irl is natural. ill skip the fag joke here.
what currently compresses (and abnormally at that) is lfs. so scared it is of clipping. thats part of why it sounds tiny. bee scale tiny.
as far as clipping being a digital phenomenon... maybe this will help reconsider
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)

ears dont clip if you overstress ears you dont end up hearing limitation noise you end up not hearing anything at all in the long run ... no audio equipment i know of gets anywhere near the dynamic range ears can handle

SladiVadi

22nd December 2006, 01:04

Blowtus

22nd December 2006, 01:12

Sounds seem definately improved. Gearwhine and gearshift are great additions.
I think the volume of the other cars is too low - startline with the fo8 or similar should be a cacophony of noise, currently the other cars are only just audible.
the lx4 has a muffled sound that is annoying to my ears. The engine noises still severely lack the 'character' of a normal engine at high revs.
I'll still be using csr at this point.

Boris Lozac

22nd December 2006, 01:21

The engine noises still severely lack the 'character' of a normal engine at high revs.
I'll still be using csr at this point.

Engines definatelly has to scream more at high revs, that's for sure, but it is great for now, i am totally satisfied and impressed...

George Kuyumji

22nd December 2006, 01:38

This Test Patch Offensive is going very good Scawen. No Problems at all, the Sound is overall alot better and I do think the tyres Sound volume is better than before, I think it was too loud before. I would also like to think that Wind noises are supposed to be louder.

I dont know if this can be added in the short term of the Test Patch Paths, but seeing as the function already exists it might not be too much of coding added an uneducated guess would say. I'm talking about the Zoom function in the Replay Mode when viewing in TV view, with the CTRL + Arrow keys it is possible to zoom, but the amount of zooming out is very small.
It would be nice to see the Track aswell in the Replay Mode, and not the car in a total view, so I would like to Zoom out more than it is currently possible with the CTRL-Arrow Keys command. Perhaps this could be added to the Test Patches along the way

Flycantbird

22nd December 2006, 01:39

no audio equipment i know of gets anywhere near the dynamic range ears can handle

Not sure what you mean, Shotglass. The range of a human's hearing is from somewhere around 7 Hz to 20 Khz, which is a fairly small frequency range. For example, dogs can hear up to 40K or 50Khz ( they heard you downloading the new engine whine patch:) ).
I believe bats might be double that.

(SaM)

22nd December 2006, 01:41

Scawen, a slight problem I have with U35 is when I switch cameras from incar to external, I get a loud click during the switch.
Apparently a result from different wave phases.

Ball Bearing Turbo

22nd December 2006, 01:49

Not sure what you mean, Shotglass. The range of a human's hearing is from somewhere around 7 Hz to 20 Khz, which is a fairly small frequency range. For example, dogs can hear up to 40K or 50Khz ( they heard you downloading the new engine whine patch:) ).
I believe bats might be double that.

Dynamic range is not frequency range. He means the "range of volumes"...

Although I would argue about the low end you quoted, (7Hz), since most literature describes 20Hz... I definitely know I / we can perceive sounds much lower; although it doesn't sound like a tone - more like flapping air :D .. Most adults also cannot hear up to 20,000 very well at all.

XCNuse

22nd December 2006, 01:50

i get clicks when there are alot of AI's (i guess it could be alot of any car) just about 5 or more cars, all flooring the gas when viewing from outside

also, this is more of a suggestion of sound, but i think the GTR class cars sound too similar (which, the GTRs were what i tested with the AIs with the clicking problem)

Flycantbird

22nd December 2006, 01:58

Dynamic range is not frequency range. He means the "range of volumes"...

Although I would argue about the low end you quoted, (7Hz), since most literature describes 20Hz... I definitely know I / we can perceive sounds much lower; although it doesn't sound like a tone - more like flapping air :D .. Most adults also cannot hear up to 20,000 very well at all.

Part 1, I stand corrected

Part 2, Yea, I have heard reports of 7 hz being the lowest demonstrated human frequency detected. Though I never hear them, I make many sounds lower than 20 hz during the course of the day however, with my subsonic weaponry. lol.

I doubt that I've heard up to 20K since I was 3 years old. Definatly not since I was 10, when I discoved that ROCK MUSIC should be played FAR TOO LOUDLY.

wheel4hummer

22nd December 2006, 02:02

My speakers cannot even play a frequency greater then like 15kHz. All I get above that is clicking.

Flycantbird

22nd December 2006, 02:05

Google 'blown tweeter'
lol.

KiDCoDEa

22nd December 2006, 02:42

xaotik u didnt understand what i said :)
a compressor is a scaler.
nothing more to add though.

Ball Bearing Turbo

22nd December 2006, 02:51

I doubt that I've heard up to 20K since I was 3 years old. Definatly not since I was 10, when I discoved that ROCK MUSIC should be played FAR TOO LOUDLY.
:headbang:

Hehe,

Yeah 20K is pretty ideal - for a newborn :pillepall :thumb:

ON TOPIC:

Does anyone else have a problem with Calibration Lock going off everytime you exit LFS? I have to do the "Press Pedals, Turn Wheel Left/ Right" drill everytime I start LFS, and Calib Lock is always off when I check - even when I turn it on and exit LFS and restart....

Ball Bearing Turbo

22nd December 2006, 03:33

Ok, just had a large go around with U36. In general, I think it's pretty good. I like a lot, and think it far better than U30.

I only have one small thing, since it's 4am in LFS time - if it's not too late, I think the air sound in the GTRs (FXR, XRR especially) could do with some amplifying. Sorry, I know I said it before, but it's just that these are paper thin cars with tiny engines and massive turbochargers... It needs to be louder. It's almost perfect soundwise in the FXR, it just needs to be louder. It takes a LOT of air to make 500HP from 2L, and with no sound deadening you I'm certain it would be terribly obvious just how much air is being consumed. The FXR is quite inspiring in this department as is, it just needs more - and the XRR is in need. Give it at least 25%, maybe a little more - seriously. Sorry to mention it again.

And thanks Scawen for your patience and amazing work this last week. If I was you.... I would've strangled a lot of people this week. Kudos for (at least visibly :D) keeping your cool and doing such great work. Thanks again, LFS is truly a better experience because of this week. :thumb:

Scawen

22nd December 2006, 04:03

OK, I had to stay up late to sort out a few more engines, I knew some of them could be improved within the current system.

So click this link if you'd like to test 10 engine sounds. It was 8 which actually have a changed sound but I just added your request for the GTR Turbo air intakes, BBT.

Please back up your engine folder first so you can compare the new and old versions. If they are liked by most people when I get up then they can go in patch and version V. You can reload an engine by pitting in and out (or entry screen and back - any car reload) you don't need to restart LFS.

EDIT : (link removed) The updated sounds for U36 were liked by most people. I have now made some minor adjustments and fixed the gearwhine looping click, so there's a slightly better version here :

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=293306#post293306

Ball Bearing Turbo

22nd December 2006, 04:07

WOW, Thanks SO much Scawen.. I don't even know how to pronounce your name (being from Canada, but ... ) THANKS! I just came back here to by chance because I just went to run LFS again (addict) and I got "Could not initialize graphics" on a small dialogue box, and it would not run :( I will now download the test that you just did, and reboot ( assuming that will fix my error ) and report back within 30 minutes. Thanks again :D :D :D

Edit: WTF, LFS did run... just in a minimized window... Oh well, whatever testing engines now!

SladiVadi

22nd December 2006, 04:19

I tested RAC and RB4 and I don't like the nasal sound of the newest zip-file.

The muffling of the RB4 in U36 was comparable to a real car I think (though I never really heard a flat engine).

I guess the RAC should have the new roar (but without the nasal tone). Maybe that's how the engine sounds like and a proper exhaust simulation will improve things (that's how I understand the current sounds).

Ball Bearing Turbo

22nd December 2006, 04:40

The RB4 is not a flat engine :really:

I just had a go in the FXR, then the XRR, then the FXR, then the XRR... etc :D

I really, REALLY like it now. At first I was thinking that the XRR could use a bit more, but I did my testing on WE1R which is fast obviously. So I slowed down and fooled around at low speeds, in both cars. Now I think it's perfect ( the air intake sound on the turbo GTRs ). I would suspect you used the same "factor" in both cars for this sound, but the engine note of the XRR is a bit more powerful and has higher frequencies which makes the intake noise seem quieter. But I truly think it's bang on in terms of relation the the engines and other sounds now. Thanks again for addressing this; off to test the other cars now :D

E: Heh, for once being on the wrong side of the planet pays off :D

Boris Lozac

22nd December 2006, 04:57

I just tested with LX4, recorded the same lap with fraps with U36 and these new test sounds, and it is definately better now!! It is more vroarrrrrr than vooooooooo as it was before.. and it screams more on higher revs now!!! Deffinately a better LX4 now!! :thumb: Great work Scawen, great work, hope these new sounds end up in Patch V...

JTbo

22nd December 2006, 05:06

X-Ter

22nd December 2006, 05:09

I must say these sounds are the best yet. Thankyou :thumb:

JTbo

22nd December 2006, 05:28

Ball Bearing Turbo

22nd December 2006, 05:29

Ok, I tested all the new cars. Numerous times!

The think the RB4 and RAC are quite mean sounding now, I like it! The FXO appears to have some of it's "flatness" back, and sounds pretty well rounded now. Improvement overall I would say. I like what the fellow described as "nasal" sounds in the RB4 and RAC, I think it's pretty accurate TBH. Any more aggression from those two cars would be OTT for a road car ;). FXO might be a tad mild, but I think it's not far off for what it is right now.

The LX4 isn't a LOT different, but just enough to notice and sounds less monotonous, and less "boomy". This is good.

The LX6 is really nice NOW, Anton, if you still don't like it... somethings wrong with your fancyass headphones bud! (hehe) It has a real snarl, lets you know when you're out of breath, and has a nifty intake "whine" off the throttle.. Kind of says "Cmon, get back on it wimp, I'll show you what I've got".... LX6 is much better than U36, and slightly better than U35 now.

FZR is still mild but sounds better than U36. Too much air intake sound for an NA car IMO. I realize it takes X amount of air to burn X amount of fuel to make X amount of power (basically.....), and it has as much power as the two 4 cyl turbo cars... However, something doesn't work out with that. Perhaps think of it that the turbo GTRs are taking in 3 times the air per ~1.7/3 displacement compared to the FZR's NA flat 6.... almost 3 total atmospheres 14.7+24LBS, compared to one total atmosphere for the FZR 14.7lbs... Geez, that math is messing with my head... too much wine perhaps... Hmm, the XRR and FXR have an IDENTICAL power curve :really: And I see, the FZR revs 30% more, and has 80% more displacement. Makes sense, however the FZR should be noisier mechanically up high IMO. I shouldn't be able to hear the air sucking in over the roar of an 7000-8500RPM NA engine... Other than that, nothing at all to whine about. Sounds great to me!

:D :D :D

Have a great Christmas- by the time I get up I suspect patch V will be out...

JasonJ

22nd December 2006, 05:30

Some reason I'm not getting any turbo sounds, now woosh no whiiiii from turbine, nothing, just engine combustion sounds, gear change sounds and gearbox whine.

This did come with these latest changes in sounds, U35 I guess it was that I installed, updated to U36 and now tested with new engine sounds.

How it is with others?
Very strange all this. I noticed no turbo/blowoff valve noises in U35. I was about to post it as a bug... then I saw U36 was up. Woot woot. Then the BOV/Turbo came back in U36. Not tried the new zip engines as of yet. (At work atm)

It shows some great foresight this new engine model I think. Seems to be easier to tweak and improve on than pre u30. We've had many changes to engine sounds in just a few short days. It can only get vastly better from here now that the foundation has been laid. Awesome stuff.

JTbo

22nd December 2006, 05:36

Very strange all this. I noticed no turbo/blowoff valve noises in U35. I was about to post it as a bug... then I saw U36 was up. Woot woot. Then the BOV/Turbo came back in U36. Not tried the new zip engines as of yet. (At work atm)

It shows some great foresight this new engine model I think. Seems to be easier to tweak and improve on than pre u30. We've had many changes to engine sounds in just a few short days. It can only get vastly better from here now that the foundation has been laid. Awesome stuff.

Hmm, this bothers me now, I did update to U36 now and those sounds did not came back. I used lfsforum.net link from ingame update menu.

Something must be then not right here. I try updated sounds now to test if those do help to situation.

edit: Tested updated sounds and still no turbo sounds.

What do you need to know?

System:
WinXP SP2
A64 3200+
1GB ram
MSI K8N Neo Platinum mb with integrated realtek alc850 audio chip, driver version 5.10.0.5780
Ati Radeon x850 xt (agp) Catalyst something, moment, version 6.6

Well I guess those are not problem, but you never know.

Ball Bearing Turbo

22nd December 2006, 05:47

Are you using headphones JTbo?

GAS-Hugo

22nd December 2006, 05:48

I would say it´s a huge step forward with sounds in lfs.
I like U36 - the ZIP-content is a tick better...
... tested rac, fzr and fox.

FZR-Sound is very well now.

Good work. :thumb:

JTbo

22nd December 2006, 05:55

Are you using headphones JTbo?

Yes, Sony MDR-CD280, connected trough stereo system so that I can hear all :P

Here (http://www.janiervast.com/lfs/replays/sounds.spr) is replay as I build boost there just is no any turbo sound that I could hear, does it work on your system?

I captured video with fraps that does amplify audio so much that it starts to break, now there can be heard a bit of turbo sound when turbo spools down, but very quiet it is, completely impossible to hear when playing.
mp3 file here (http://www.janiervast.com/lfs/replays/sounds.mp3)

(SaM)

22nd December 2006, 06:04

Yes, Sony MDR-CD280, connected trough stereo system so that I can hear all :P

Here (http://www.janiervast.com/lfs/replays/sounds.spr) is replay as I build boost there just is no any turbo sound that I could hear, does it work on your system?

Definately works on mine, didnt even need to turn the volume up on my speakers. I hear all turbo sounds.

JTbo

22nd December 2006, 06:23

Definately works on mine, didnt even need to turn the volume up on my speakers. I hear all turbo sounds.

I had to put volume quite loud and treble setting to max from stereo to get some of it.

I made now mp3 file (http://www.janiervast.com/lfs/replays/sounds_normal.mp3) that is playing same level as my game audio when I play in media player with mediaplayer's volume set to max.

Maybe I'm loosing my hearing or something?

Ball Bearing Turbo

22nd December 2006, 06:35

JTbo

22nd December 2006, 06:37

JTbo...

:D

I can hear it fine in your replay, and your insanely loud MP3, and the last MP3.... I'm not trying to be flippant, but in truth if you can't hear that then you might indeed be losing your upper range of hearing :razz:... I don't know what to say; I think it sounds fine my friend :)

Ehhh, you saying me gettin old? LOL, maybe that is the case, but nice to get verification :schwitz:

Luckily can still hear all those nice sounds in real car with real turbo :thumb:

Edit: Ok Scawen you can go now to bed, sorry to keep you awake ;)

Ball Bearing Turbo

22nd December 2006, 06:46

Ehhh, you saying me gettin old? LOL, maybe that is the case, but nice to get verification :schwitz:

Uhhh... Well uh.... Er, YOU said it not me !:D

joeynuggetz

22nd December 2006, 06:49

I like the way the RAC sounds. Haven't tried U36 yet.

MaximUK

22nd December 2006, 06:52

Does anyone else have a problem with Calibration Lock going off everytime you exit LFS? I have to do the "Press Pedals, Turn Wheel Left/ Right" drill everytime I start LFS, and Calib Lock is always off when I check - even when I turn it on and exit LFS and restart....

Yes, I have been noticing this. First press of the brake peddal locks it all up if you forget.

Maxim

JTbo

22nd December 2006, 07:05

Uhhh... Well uh.... Er, YOU said it not me !:D

True :D

I just cranked up sound now, does the trick even my ears hurt. Anyway sound has improved a lot, specially this latest sound update is incredible, can't stop driving that RAC now it sounds great too. Should test other cars too, but I kind of trust what BBT tells about sound :D

I think I have got that calibration lock loss since I got dfp, more than one year.

woolfen

22nd December 2006, 07:43

OK, I had to stay up late to sort out a few more engines, I knew some of them could be improved within the current system.

So click this link if you'd like to test 10 engine sounds. It was 8 which actually have a changed sound but I just added your request for the GTR Turbo air intakes, BBT.

Please back up your engine folder first so you can compare the new and old versions. If they are liked by most people when I get up then they can go in patch and version V. You can reload an engine by pitting in and out (or entry screen and back - any car reload) you don't need to restart LFS.

www.liveforspeed.co.uk/eng_updates_for_U36.zip (http://www.liveforspeed.co.uk/eng_updates_for_U36.zip)

Sounds for : XRR FXR FZR FO8 RAC FXO XRT RB4 LX6 LX4

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thank you Scawen for your fabulous job !!!

mery christmass to you and all lfs drivers

best regard
woolfen

danowat

22nd December 2006, 07:51

Had a quick scan, can't see these mentioned, so here goes. edit.....This is with U36

1) Gear whine has some terrible looping, about 1 sec intervals, in the FZR, not sure about others, and I haven't tested the 8 sounds in a zip on the previous page.

2) On exiting LFS after an online game I get, screen hang with "Closing 1 connect", and then LFS.exe has caused a problem blah blah.

GP4Flo

22nd December 2006, 08:10

LFS.exe has caused a problem blah blah.
Crash address?

danowat

22nd December 2006, 08:15

Unfortunatly, I didn't look, yes, yes, I know, kinda pointless metioning it without the crash address :(

axus

22nd December 2006, 08:18

:clapclap:

Wow, just had a quick poke, and I think the sound is AMAZING on the LX6 now. :thumb: (I think I might have to use some EQ for my system but that's another matter.) The LX4 is also astonishing!

Looking at the time of that post, I'm struggling to understand why you aren't on the list of nominees for sim personality of 2006 from AutoSimSport. ;)

My brother also had a go - I've never seen him drive the LX6 so well, so you're definitely doing something right! I would give more of a test but I'm off to go karting! :D Now release V and have a more-than-well-deserved rest!

BuddhaBing

22nd December 2006, 08:49

I've only had a chance to try the new engine updates for the RB4, LX6 and XRT so far and all three are excellent. It's a pure delight to listen to the engine note when blipping on downshifts or when breathing the throttle on long sweepers. These are definitely keepers.

Blackout

22nd December 2006, 08:55

Sounds better than U36 I think :)

filur

22nd December 2006, 08:56

These be samples:

http://thenz.org/soundcomparison.rar

Overall the new ones seem slightly improved.

Mr.Ferret

22nd December 2006, 08:59

Hhhmm BF1 sounded far better in U35 than U36 imo it sounds more synthetic now. Mrt sounds a bit better though in U36 lol

Hhhmm bit vague aren't i?

On another note when the sounds are finally finished (yeah yeah i know just hear me out) will the BF1 sound like it does on TV or in Real Life after attending the Aus GP this year i can tell ya those F1's sound NOTHING like they do on TV

hotmail

22nd December 2006, 09:11

can't open my name, i alwas drive with tat name but i can't open it after patch u36 i get the view , srry that it is dutch.

reintjan

CrazyICE

22nd December 2006, 09:30

can't open my name, i alwas drive with tat name but i can't open it after patch u36 i get the view , srry that it is dutch.

reintjan
switch ingame to english :D and post again :D
or is LFS now unuseable?

btw...just listened to the comparison some posts posted before...
the new patched sounds are really nice now...

love all...
imho also the FZR sounds nice...
me is satisfied :D (sometimes you think you stand behinde a rocket, but it's ok)

Scawen

22nd December 2006, 09:42

1) Gear whine has some terrible looping, about 1 sec intervals, in the FZR, not sure about others, and I haven't tested the 8 sounds in a zip on the previous page.Yes, you and some others mentioned it, thanks, there was a "tick tick tick" and I've now chosen a better loop now so it's the same but loops better.

Rtsbasic

22nd December 2006, 10:17

The newest sounds - from this thread, are the best yet. Loving in particular the RB4, FZ5 & LX4/6. Two weeks ago I wouldn't have thought LFS's synth engine could produce results like these.

alliennas

22nd December 2006, 10:24

well, when I read all tread, every poast, I think that You (Scawen) are now free to publish "V" patch with no problems. Wasn't able to test all cars, only XRT XFG and XRG (out of unlocks) but these 3 cars that I mentioned sounds really good. Keep up the good work, and have a good holiday break :thumb::nod:

Glenn67

22nd December 2006, 10:30

:thumb: I really love how the sounds are coming along :D could sit in the pits listening to the engines all day especially the LX6 :razz:

One thing bothers me though :shrug: if I ignore the RPM dial and just listen to the engine sound, I get the impression its half the RPM of what it actually shows if I compare to RL. E.g. 6,000 RPM is what I'd expect 3,000 RPM on my car to sound like, am I missing something obvious or do others get the same impression :schwitz:

Just thinking about an engine and its sounds... on the compression stroke it fires making a noise in a sealed chamber then once the power stroke is over the valves open to let the burnt gases out and resonating sound from the explosion moments before creating the impression of a second exlposion, thus making a 3,000 RPM four stroke sound more aggressive than what we would initially expect :shrug: Only explanation I could think of :p :D

Anyway all the sounds sound great to me, its just they sound half the RPM of what they show... 3,000 RPM sounds like idle speed :x I've sat beside a race breed V8 idling at 2,000RPM and it doesn't sound like my car idling at 1,000 RPM, in contrast it made the ground shake with its awsome power :nod:

Peter Oey

22nd December 2006, 10:44

DanneDA

22nd December 2006, 10:46

birder

22nd December 2006, 11:05

The new sounds are great. Good work Scawen!

I think we could have confusion here because of the sounds in different driving positions.

I still think the old U28 FZR sounds were much better than U36 however i do like the gear click (Louder please)

DanneDA says the sounds are great and he drives a FZR normally when on ConeDodgers the same as me, but he drives in "custom view" sitting on the bonnet.

I have tried that and the sound is much better than the one when in the more normal drivers seat view that most of us use.

Its difficult to compare notes if we all use different driving positions and are so hearing different sounds.

As i want LFS to be a sim, and so as close to the real thing as possible i only driver in the drivers view even though i can get faster times in other views, using then makes me feel like i am cheating.

In the drivers view the engine is just to perfectly smooth like a road car, race cars with that amount of power are just not like that. Race engines used on circuits have a smaller power band than a road car and when outside of that power band sound as rough as hell. The current FZR sound from U36 sound pack gets rid of the boom but it still need balls and downright noise. Perhaps using the current outside engine sound inside would help a pit as a stop gap.

I would ask DanneDA to try the sounds inside the car and see what he thinks so we are all singing from the same hymm sheet, so to speak.

Scawen

22nd December 2006, 11:06

The new sounds are great. Good work Scawen!

If it is possible at this point to implent this, it would be very nice:
When in custom view for tin-tops (w/ draw car) the map is the ligher version, and this is causing some trouble for me because the map is in the sky most of the time for me. Would it be possible to use the dark version for this view? Using an option in the menu perhaps?

And a question:
For future test patches, will the updater work for these or will it only pick up normal updates?Thanks.

No, I can't change the map colour now - I understand your point but it really needs an option. It's too complicated for now. Anyway I've built the final V exe already, and I'm putting together the versions. I will only change anything now if there is a crash or some serious bug! :)

The updater may be used for future test patches, if so then you would have to add a small config file, that would put you into "test patch mode". That is supported already (using a special mechanism that allows data-only updates). So... it can be done. At the moment it's not the easiest way for me to make a small patch, too many files in too many places, but I hope to automate some of that to make it easier.

AndroidXP

22nd December 2006, 11:09

Anyway I've built the final V exe already, and I'm putting together the versions. I will only change anything now if there is a crash or some serious bug! :)Go Go Gadget-o-V!

Scawen

22nd December 2006, 11:16

Hello. Here is the final edit for the V engine sounds. Final as in, final for V, not final for ever. I had to resave them all with a better looping gear sound without a click in it. Also made minor adjustments to road cars gear whine volume, and reduced / lowered the intake noise on the FZR.

I'm just posting them here in case anyone finds a major error in one of them, while I'm getting the V versions together.

Download (please make sure you have auto-updated to version U36 first) :

www.liveforspeed.co.uk/eng_final_for_U36_V.zip