Sick Of PEOPLE OVER USING *BLUE FLAG*

[TypeRCivic]

I've been racing in CONEDOGERS with the FZR international and nothing bothers me more then PEOPLE OVER DOING BLUE FLAG. I'll be infront of someone with a blue flag on my screen and i'm fighting for my position and they say GHOSTRYDER BLUE FLAG....BLUE FLAG.... then as i approach a turn they rear end me and spin me out!!!!! IF they have the faster car they can get me on the straight away, why am i going to slow down and let tem pass when i'm intitled to fight for my position as long as it's clean, right? Well thats not how it goes. I have never intentionally bumped anyone or caused a wreck to keep my position.

[ayrton senna 87]

id fire u aswell!
u should give up your position man, maybe if the guy infront that u were battling with didnt they would fire him instead! or he would loose an equal amount of time moving over.

[Davo]

You're supposed to leave the racing and let them pass when it's an opportune and safe time, usually on a turn or straight. That's my understanding anyway. You're not battling for their position and they are much faster than you so let them pass and don't get in their way.

But yes people overdo blue flag because they thingk you should pull right off the track into the grass for them to pass because they're faster, whe in fact it's at the best opportunity not immediately.

[MyBoss]

I hate people that don't follow the blue flag rules.

[Hankstar]

Why does this keep coming up? The blue flag is one of the simplest racing situations to understand :shrug:

1) if you get a blue flag it's because you're being lapped (because you're slow or because you joined the race after the first lap), therefore you're NOT fighting for position and NOT entitled to battle the car behind you. Look at the trackmap - yellow triangles are cars in front of you, orange are the ones behind. Just because someone is behind you on the track it doesn't mean they're not ahead of you on the board. Don't battle or block a yellow triangle that's following you. You don't have to yield straight away or compromise your race speed too much, just move over and let the faster car through at a safe point on track. It's basic race etiquette.

2) Noone has any right to crash into you, even if you are holding them up and driving irresponsibly, regardless of what our illustrious Mr Senna thinks. However, I can understand peoples' frustration. There's a simple remedy though - obey the blue flag and you won't piss people off :shrug: Of course you still get idiots who think "BLUE FLAG" means "get out of my way IMMEDIATELY", which simply isn't the case. You'll always encounter fools online but if you race clean you'll always be able to defend you actions.

3) It shits me when people spam "BLUE FLAG" with their binds. The words "BLUE FLAG" appear on your screen when a car is approaching to lap you - I don't need my ****ing screen filled with some hotshot's spam bindage. I'll let you by when it's safe to do so and not before!

[jayhawk]

I've been racing in CONEDOGERS with the FZR international and nothing bothers me more then PEOPLE OVER DOING BLUE FLAG. I'll be infront of someone with a blue flag on my screen and i'm fighting for my position and they say GHOSTRYDER BLUE FLAG....BLUE FLAG.... then as i approach a turn they rear end me and spin me out!!!!! IF they have the faster car they can get me on the straight away, why am i going to slow down and let tem pass when i'm intitled to fight for my position as long as it's clean, right? Well thats not how it goes. I have never intentionally bumped anyone or caused a wreck to keep my position.

You are not entitled to anything when the words "blue flag" come up to your screen. You ARE entitled to not pull over until you get a safe, straight area, then you are to pull over and slow down, right away. Period!

Honestly, if you are not going to abide by those rules, sooner or later the people who run Cone Dodgers are going to get annoyed with you and ban you for a long, LONG time. You have to respect this rule, as others have to, also. You are not above or better than the servers or games rules. If you get sick of blue flags, practice 50 laps a night offline so that your laps are consistent. On and offline in the past 2 months I have put in nearly 1000 laps on that combo.

[Hankstar]

FYI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_regulations#Flags), from the wiki.

Pertinent bit from F1 regulations (you'll find similar rules in most other race competitions): "During a race, a light blue flag waved on the track warns the driver that he is about to be lapped by a faster car and must let it pass. A driver may incur penalties if he ignores three successive blue flags."

[tombarlin]

You should move over racing for position or not the trick is to do it so you lose as little time as possible i just tend to wait for next turn and brake late run wide and let them go

[Hankstar]

Exactly. Noone (noone who has a clue about RL racing, anyway) should expect you to park on the grass and let you whizz by. Any half-decent racer will do just what you described: let the faster guy pass at a safe point - it can be at a corner, down a straight, wherever. The slower driver has the right to go as fast as he can and go for the best result possible, but not to the disadvantage of a clearly faster driver who's about to lap him. Common sense, really.

edit: I should add that if you are being spammed with "BLUE FLAG" messages and you're not being lapped, you have the right to tell whoever's doing it to shove it where their mama never kissed 'em ;)

[TagForce]

Exactly. Noone (noone who has a clue about RL racing, anyway) should expect you to park on the grass and let you whizz by. Any half-decent racer will do just what you described: let the faster guy pass at a safe point - it can be at a corner, down a straight, wherever. The slower driver has the right to go as fast as he can and go for the best result possible, but not to the disadvantage of a clearly faster driver who's about to lap him. Common sense, really.

edit: I should add that if you are being spammed with "BLUE FLAG" messages and you're not being lapped, you have the right to tell whoever's doing it to shove it where their mama never kissed 'em ;)

When I'm being spammed with blue flag messages I'm not going to move over all the way and give them anywhere near a huge line past me. When I see the LFS BF message and one or two informative Blue Flag messages from the user I'll move over and slow down... If I get the LFS message and 15 "Blue Flag! Move ur az N00B!!!" messages from half a mile out, they just earned the right to attempt to overtake me. I won't fight them, but as long as they don't make a move, I'm not moving an inch. I hate when people go out of their way to annoy you with spam. There's a message in LFS that gives you the Blue Flag when you're supposed to get it. No need to fill my screen with your pathetic attempt at feeling superior.

[Hankstar]

Like I said, I'll yield when I need to but spammers can bite me :D

However, I rarely see the "BLUE FLAG M0OV PLZ" bind from others because I block messages as soon as I'm on the track - precisely because I don't want to see spam. If I do end up getting lapped though, LFS will tell me in plenty of time and if I join a race late I always check the trackmap to see if I'm going to be in anyone's way. Sometimes LFS gives me the blue flag message way too early but it's way more preferable to having my screen filled with crap :)

[Batterypark]

I'm sick of people overusing capital letters and exclamation marks. Bah.

[Glenn67]

The biggest problem we have online, which exasperates the blue flag syndrome, is the disparity between the fastest and slowest drivers and the shortness of pickup races.

I.e. yesterday in v8supercars at Philip Island several drivers were shown the bad sportsmanship flag and one received a drive through penalty for not yielding and they were less than a second off pace (and fighting for position) in a 32 lap race. In LFS we have 5 laps and people that are commonly 5 seconds a lap off pace with little track experience compared to the fastest guys, which is always going to cause controversy. :shrug:

I’m not the fastest, normally about 1 second off WR pace on car track combos I know, but if I get stuck behind a slower bunch of drivers I will endeavour to have a fair battle with them as best as possible making up whatever ground I can then go on from there in the next race. I never see one five lap race as the be all and end of all races, I look at it as a series of races and try to do well overall. And I know others faster than me that think the same, I look out for them and race them whenever I can :) , but then there is others that I avoid because of there mindset :x

I think some take pickup races a little too seriously, need to step back and look at themselves and remember that the person they are abusing on the other end of the net IS NOT a pro racing driver but is most likely a race enthusiast, and due to lack of any real life track time is most likely prone to errors of judgement in the heat of a battle, hey even the Pro’s get it wrong on occasion :scratchch .

We need to respect each other a bit more at times on the track I feel, although I find the vast majority do and that is what makes LFS such a great community :tilt: .
Hey if you want to race for sheep stations join a league or set up a private server and invite all the WR pace guys there, but don’t whinge every time someone has a lapse of judgement on a public server in a 5 lap pick up race :really: and better yet don't spam blue flag blue flag let me pass! :D

[robgo]

If you get a blue flag in a 15 minutes race it means that you started the race later or you pitted using the shift+s button. So in a short race like this i think the blue flag should be get out of the way immidiately, leaving the ideal line free and not making the leaders to slow down. Anyway, i have been racing there a lot, and if it weren't the case a race would mean waiting for lapped persons to move aside, since i meet lapped persons quite a lot. And the person who could pass them in a more fortunate way wins... However, most of the people let you pass immidiately on that server.:)

[Meanie]

Another really golden (just golden) thing that happens time from time is someone crashing into the race or joining a server while there's a race on and exiting the pits and entering the track just IN FRONT of the cars racing.

No, the guy can't wait goddamn 5 seconds to let them pass and then join, he has to join RIGHT BEFORE the guys racing pass by and then screw everybody 's Turn 1.

I really, really hate when that happens.
And that happens a lot. :(

[Glenn67]

If you get a blue flag in a 15 minutes race it means that you started the race later or you pitted using the shift+s button. So in a short race like this i think the blue flag should be get out of the way immidiately, leaving the ideal line free and not making the leaders to slow down.

Exactly :thumb: but that comes back to respect from both sides, if you are not in the race but just lapping respect means you would get out of the way entirely and immediately.

[ajp71]

My take on being lapped varies by what the faster driver does if he just approaches normally I'll let him by at a point that won't compromise my race too greatly and at a point where it is safe to do so, I'll take a wide line and he can make a pass if he wants to. It's still his pass and he is responsible if he takes me out (so long as I hold my line) this is normally what happens in RL racing.

The next situation are drivers miles back who are a spec in your mirror (Alonso/Massa Monza nonsense?) who claim that although you are running at the same speed as them you have to slow down, now I know it can be hard to get close to other cars due to the effects of dirty air but there is a limit to this effect so I will only consider slowing a tiny amount to let single seaters/GTRs by if they are close enough to get past if I feather the throttle slightly, that is the only time I'll ever slow down for a faster car.

If somebody decides to start spamming blue flag messages or uses the horn I will keep driving on the racing line, which FYI is perfectly acceptable IRL (F1 is an exception due difficulty of passing) I won't drive at all defensively and will hold my line until I get to a corner where I decide I will take a wide line and let the other guy through (this is actually very common IRL), if the faster car wants to go round the outside that is totally fine by me, but his risk.

The last kind of people are those who try to pass you in the middle of a chicane I will keep racing on a none defensive racing line and leave it up to them to make a clean pass. Even worse those who try and tap you (Aryton 87 style) I never yield to a driver who has blatantley tried to take me out and will go out of my way to ensure they have a hard time trying to get past me and with any luck I can ruin their race for a change, I never resort to forcing them off the track though (and I only do this to people who I frankly expect to do it to me after they've already tried to take me off, Phlos was by far the worst offender at this).

I really really hate this element of LFS, in fact it's the main reason why I've pretty much given up on racing on public servers. It's not a problem in the organised rFactor Caterham races which I do from either a lapping or being lapped point of view, I have never seen one horn toot or blue flag message just the flashing of headlights which puts the message across in a less agressive more realistic manner.

[Hankstar]

I don't slow down and let faster guys catch me artificially - they'll get me eventually - but once they're on me I'll give them enough room to pass at a good spot, usually approaching a corner or just after. I might lift a bit on a straight too to let them draft me, but once they're level I'll floor it again - no point in jeopardising my own result or lap times.

Like ajp, the guys who think a blue flag means "let me pass instantly" not "let me pass safely" get the same treatment as a decent driver: I'll let you go when it's safe. Can't really ask for more than that can you? If you want to get childish and bump a backmarker who's slowing you down or racing you and being an idiot, that really makes you no better than them imho. If you're that much quicker, wait for a safe spot and take them honourably. School them after the race! After all, they might not be an idiot - they might simply be ignorant of the rules or a rookie with little experience. Going around punting people off track will not endear you to anyone, but explaining the rules to them might actually help them to help you next time.

I know that doesn't always work but you encounter people who seem to want to remain stupid all the time, in all areas of life, so try not to let them get to you.

[ajp71]

Another really golden (just golden) thing that happens time from time is someone crashing into the race or joining a server while there's a race on and exiting the pits and entering the track just IN FRONT of the cars racing.


1) The first issue is normally caused by lack of common sense, if people firstly did not ignore blue flags and then were prepared to slow when cars start crashing in front of them (rather than hoping they can weave through flat out) a lot of accidents can be avoided, unfortunatley it only takes one pillock to not brake and take out a train of cars and ruin the races of everyone sensible enough to use some caution when trouble emerges ahead.

2) Something we have to live with I don't personally use the map because I hate it cluttering my screen so it can be genuinely difficult to see when the track is clear, other pit exits you can see and be able to stop (like BL), however on the blind ones exiting at speed is a lot safer than creeping out, just keeping well within the white line. At least part of the onus is on racing cars to not put themselves at risk if at all possible, you wouldn't question having to watch the pit exit IRL when the consequences are so much worse would you?

[wsinda]

IF they have the faster car they can get me on the straight away, why am i going to slow down and let tem pass when i'm intitled to fight for my position as long as it's clean, right?The difference between the slower and the faster drivers is often in corner entry and exit. When a fast guy is behind you and you are blocking his line, it's hard for him to get the extra speed through the corner so he can overtake you on the straight.

Then again...

wsinda voted to ban anyone who has "BLUE FLAG" as a keybind (press 1)

[sinbad]

95% or racers are excellent when it comes to obeying the blue flags, and 95% of racers know you can't really expect to not be impeded at all every single time. The problem is that 9 out of 10 times a blue flag is shown on a public server it is to someone who has left the pits long after the race has started. That's what annoys people as much as anything else (imo). Because they're not just lapped traffic that for some reason doesn't make it easy for you, they're random cars that have no place on the circuit in the first place.

If you join the race after it has started then you must make 10times the effort to not interrupt the race in progress.

[Fischfix]

there is a serious misunderstanding of blue flag on the servers. some people even start shouting BLUE FLAG when you didn't get any blue flag by lfs itself. THAT is anoying.

blue flag means, you are going to be lapped, don't block the car upcoming you. and the faster car should be wise enough to choose the safest spot to overtake, not the slower one! bearing in mind that it might have a reason why this car is slower. some of the faster drivers are not the wisest though... and think they can overtake a slow driver (who might not drive the ideal line) the same way they would overtake a driver who is at an equal pace as they are. this results in misunderstanding and crash.

sometimes it is even better for the faster car to back up a little. and wait one more corner...
you will overtake that guy anyway. and the car behind you has to pass that guy as well.

good drivers can time an overtaking of a lapped car to their advantage over the car behind them. you see this in formula 1 a lot of times. when people get stuck behind a blue flaged car right before a corner where the leading car managed to overtake that blue flagger before that corner.

so be patient.

and one more thing: people who think they can claim every inch of the track for themselfs can suck my hairy salty balls... (maybe too much detail...)

[Dajmin]

Yes, that "BLUE FLAG PULL OVER" spam is one of the more annoying things I can think of.

If (and when) I'm getting the blue flag message I will keep checking my mirrors to see when the car is within passing range. I normally move to only using maybe 75% throttle to let them past ASAP.
However, if we're at a chicane for example, there is nowhere to go that's not going to screw up everyone's lap, so I just try to get through that section as fast as possible.

On the other hand, if someone is spamming a "get out of my way" message to everyone they get close to, I will not do anything to let them pass. I won't block them, but I sure as hell will stick to my line.

Because I hate asshattery :)

[Meanie]

95% or racers are excellent when it comes to obeying the blue flags, and 95% of racers know you can't really expect to not be impeded at all every single time. The problem is that 9 out of 10 times a blue flag is shown on a public server it is to someone who has left the pits long after the race has started. That's what annoys people as much as anything else (imo). Because they're not just lapped traffic that for some reason doesn't make it easy for you, they're random cars that have no place on the circuit in the first place.

If you join the race after it has started then you must make 10times the effort to not interrupt the race in progress.

Yep, that's pretty much what i'm talking about.
When it comes to pub races it is the case 95% of the time, or even more.

The races are pretty short and cause of that even if there's some great disparity in times the slower ones are pretty much never in a position of being lapped by the faster ones.

BUT there's always (as i said) the great guys who either crashes or join the server when a race is underway (nothing "against" it, we all do it) AND then SCREW with peoples' race.

That really makes me deeply angry.

If you crash or didn't start the race with the others you're NO PART OF IT and therefore if you are going to use the track while others are racing (even when the race will be over in just a few minutes) PLEASE DO NOT screw my or others' race. Please. :(

By getting out of the pit (doesn't using the map is no excuse, if you don't use it then you don't join a race unerway and risk ruining others' race) just in front of the people racing or crashing/spinning outta the track and then returning to the track when there's people coming and so on.

Just don't. Please.
The race will be over in a few minutes and then you can join and race with us. But please don't act like that.

The sad part is that 99% of the people who do this kind of thing either do not read these forums or even if they do they probably won't enter in a thread like this or even, if they do, take it seriously.

It's just a utter lack of respect that makes me very sad/angry.
Well, i'm having kind of a bay day too so excuse me if i were a lil too harsh.

Cheers..

[birder]

I must say you are very lucky getting onto the ConeDodgers Server as its normally full and even luckier to stay on if you do not obey the blue flag.

Admin will warn you once, kick you once and then ban you for 12 hours, that is if the other drivers have not already banned you by voting.

At ConeDodgers we have the following in our rules which are as clear as we can make them.

Blue Flag
One or more competitors are about to lap you. You must hold your course and allow them to pass UNIMPEDED. You must make sure you change speed and leave room to be passed. DO NOT RACE A CAR THAT IS A LAP AHEAD.

Should you pass a slower car and then find you get a blue flag warning you can carry on but MUST NOT IMPEAD THEM IN ANY WAY.

In both the LFS: GTR League and on the ConeDodgers servers, not obeying the blue flag is considered unsporting and anyone doing so with have points deducted or may be forced to leave the server.

[axus]

:really: Wait, if you're being lapped, then you're not racing for position. "If the other guy has a faster car he'll overtake you on the straights"? No, not necessarily - he may be going faster in the corners and his advantage on the straights may be tiny. Whatever the case may be, if you're a back-marker you should slow the front runners as little as possible. I just don't get what you're complaining about. Its not as if you lose position if you let the guy through. :pillepall

[Dajmin]

I must say you are very lucky getting onto the ConeDodgers Server as its normally full and even luckier to stay on if you do not obey the blue flag.
There is a big difference between not wanting someone to spam the hell out of everyone and not obeying the flag. I'll obey the flag itself, but not some random pleb who thinks they rule the world because they're faster than someone.

[Fischfix]

i think he is complaining about the fact, faster drivers sometimes behave like they are stalin/hitler/napolen and think everyone who is in their way should dissolve and better never touch a wheel again...

and i think it is only in about 10% of the corners in lfs safe to let others pass. only on corners where "going wide" makes sense. waiting for the straight is most of the time safer and wiser...:thumb:

[aoun]

Well i havent read any posts yet, so my appoligizes if said..

But when blue flag, you dont just slow down heaps and assume the leader is going to pass.. you ease off, keep racing with a good ammount of speed until he has passed, you should not then pass him back unless he is 0.5 off each sector or more..

For your battle.. i guess its what position your in.. where in the turns or how many people in your battle.. :).

But i guess i hate it when people are farr back, and they start beeppping, pressuring you and hit F# and make you let through.. Backmarkers are racing too ya know and when the time is right, we are smart enough to let you through so theres no accidents.. but theres some who dont let you through which is plain stupid..

[birder]

There is a big difference between not wanting someone to spam the hell out of everyone and not obeying the flag. I'll obey the flag itself, but not some random pleb who thinks they rule the world because they're faster than someone.

ConeDodgers servers are filtter with LFSLapper and we consider spamming and swearing as un-sporting, if you spam LFSLapper is set to give you a Drive-through penalty automatically which normally gets the reaction of "This is Bullsh*t" or some other such comment, however it works as normally the person stops spamming.

Also as the server is so full we attract a number of drivers who use Shift+S several times in a race, using Shift+S is the main cause of Blue flag incidents.

On [CD]1 (AS3) we have had 5 people record 1:39.xx lap times, 100's in the 1:40's and over 1000 in the 1:41 range. The main problem is when 2 cars are of similar times yet one is a lap ahead, it is very difficult for a 1:42 driver to pass another 1:42 driver who has used Shift+S and a lap or more behind so the driver being lapped MUST obey the blue flag.

It is very difficult to "police" a full server, to stop spamming and stop all blue flag problems but one thing is clear on our servers is that using "/ban xxxxx 0" makes the problem go away for about 12 hours.

I will also say to anyone who will not obey the blue flag rule, please do not use our servers.

[Doorman]

Funnily enough, we have heard from a spammer defending his point of view. :scratchch So, they either don't read this forum, in which case we're preaching to the converted, or spammers are a figment of our collective imaginations.:shrug:

[R34GTR]

I obey the blue flag rule, but I refuse to jeperdise my track position just to let someone who's a bit faster than me past, so I wait until a straight and just ease off the gas, then draft them to keep my speed :p

I was on that server aswell, people do whore it out, I mean the big blue message is enough, but then they go flood the comment box with "BLUE FLAG MOVE".

It's one of racings unsolvable problems...unfortunately, and moaning and whinging isn't gonna solve it one bit.

[GianniC]

Sick of people overusing caps lock in title threads.

Just go a side and use your commen sence. Those people with Fx buttons preset at "blue flag make room", delete those Fx button it's useless. If we all do this there is no need for this stupid topic.

[nihil]

I haven't done any laps with my shiney new S2 licence yet - getting used to the new toys...

But on the demo servers, it really annoyed me to see faster drivers joining from the pitlane then expecting people in the race to get out of the way. Go away. You're behind me and going to stay there, even though I'm four seconds a lap slower.

If you're about to lap me though, I'll give you the space when appropriate, but if you can't take the pass, then you may be faster, but you're lacking in racecraft. Go away and practice against the ai - they never yield.

Why does anyone keep the chat on during a race? OK, maybe to say "sorry" in a gentlemanly manner once in a while, since we can't wave through the window, but that can all be said after the race. I always block chat and race in the expectation that others do too. So if I don't apologise it doesn't mean I don't love you anymore :)

[hardcoreobscure]

Go away. You're behind me and going to stay there, even though I'm four seconds a lap slower.

Im still unsure about this point, back when I could race online I used to frequent the AS National GTR servers, which were sometimes set to 20 laps, if they were half way through the race I would join to get some praccy.

I would never get in anyones way and be extra curtious as im not fighting for position, but if I came up to a driver very quickly who was obviously a lot slower than me, id tail them for a bit and pass when safe to do so. Now sometimes when this happened I would get spammed with "BLUE FALG MOVE OVER" and that did used to annoy me, afaik if you are consistantly faster and dont cause an accident its prefectly ok to cruise past :shrug:

is this right?

[TKKN]

Another really golden (just golden) thing that happens time from time is someone crashing into the race or joining a server while there's a race on and exiting the pits and entering the track just IN FRONT of the cars racing.

No, the guy can't wait goddamn 5 seconds to let them pass and then join, he has to join RIGHT BEFORE the guys racing pass by and then screw everybody 's Turn 1.

I really, really hate when that happens.
And that happens a lot. :(

Once I joined race and I see a bunch of people coming on the straight down to T1, so I wait and let them pass. But it's almost always the opposite when someone else joins. :x

Happy Racing :nod:

[zak_mull]

WEll i think people should do it once, then if the racing who is being lapped does not move then the host should notice and give warning's!

[Dajmin]

There is no need to do it at all. You can't exactly miss the huge BLUE FLAG written across your screen.

[BlakjeKaas]

You're supposed to leave the racing and let them pass when it's an opportune and safe time, usually on a turn or straight.
well, most of the times that's the whole track?

The guy with the blue-flag must not wait until the car is at his back before reacting on blue-flag...

[traxxion]

Sick of people overusing caps lock in title threads.
Word.

[510N3D]

The biggest problem we have online, which exasperates the blue flag syndrome, is the disparity between the fastest and slowest drivers and the shortness of pickup races.

I.e. yesterday in v8supercars at Philip Island several drivers were shown the bad sportsmanship flag and one received a drive through penalty for not yielding and they were less than a second off pace (and fighting for position) in a 32 lap race. In LFS we have 5 laps and people that are commonly 5 seconds a lap off pace with little track experience compared to the fastest guys, which is always going to cause controversy. :shrug:

I’m not the fastest, normally about 1 second off WR pace on car track combos I know, but if I get stuck behind a slower bunch of drivers I will endeavour to have a fair battle with them as best as possible making up whatever ground I can then go on from there in the next race. I never see one five lap race as the be all and end of all races, I look at it as a series of races and try to do well overall. And I know others faster than me that think the same, I look out for them and race them whenever I can :) , but then there is others that I avoid because of there mindset :x

I think some take pickup races a little too seriously, need to step back and look at themselves and remember that the person they are abusing on the other end of the net IS NOT a pro racing driver but is most likely a race enthusiast, and due to lack of any real life track time is most likely prone to errors of judgement in the heat of a battle, hey even the Pro’s get it wrong on occasion :scratchch .

We need to respect each other a bit more at times on the track I feel, although I find the vast majority do and that is what makes LFS such a great community :tilt: .
Hey if you want to race for sheep stations join a league or set up a private server and invite all the WR pace guys there, but don’t whinge every time someone has a lapse of judgement on a public server in a 5 lap pick up race :really: and better yet don't spam blue flag blue flag let me pass! :D

very nice post :thumb: I can only add one fact, some people likes to ignore the blue flag or the text in the middle of the screen showing BLUE FLAG, in that case i need a bind to remind em. If youre fighting on top with others and a backmarker is going around one-armed with a cup of coffee and watching tv as well you really need those binding to make the flag more offical.

If everyone is reading the chat, checking the map, mirrrors & flags, every race could be more then a pleasure and if you do this you show respect to everybody else. But as you said, we all have started once and had to learn all this stuff.

[f1r3b4ll]

The way i see it, blue flag means that you must not attempt to defend your line against a car who is ahead of you...
I will not slow down just to let them past and i dont expect anyone to do the same for me, if i or you are in the position to pass, then they will pass no problem.
And as for spamming it, god that annoys me - its distracting enough (but neccesary) having a huge BLUE FLAG across my screen. I do NOT need BLUE FLAG - GET OUT OF MY WAY spammed 80 times....

[mrodgers]

well, most of the times that's the whole track?

The guy with the blue-flag must not wait until the car is at his back before reacting on blue-flag...
If you don't wait until the car is "at your back", then what should you do? (In a normal lapping car situation, not midjoin or shift-S pit) There has been plenty of times that I have seen blue flag, but never saw the car behind me. I should just quit racing just because I am getting blue flagged? If I'm 3 seconds ahead of the leader and running the same laptime but am there due to a spin, or an accident that I slowed for, why should I immediately slow just because I am blue flagged? He is not catching me to actually hinder him, so I just continue keeping an eye out for him incase he does catch me.

There are many many different situations of blue flag in LFS that it all can't be sorted out with a definative rule on what you need to do. It is all relative to the particular situation.

[510N3D]

There is no need to do it at all. You can't exactly miss the huge BLUE FLAG written across your screen.

Some people can, trust me :) Some people are even searching for their eyeglasses while it is already on their nose :)

[f1r3b4ll]

very nice post :thumb: I can only add one fact, some people likes to ignore the blue flag or the text in the middle of the screen showing BLUE FLAG, in that case i need a bind to remind em. If youre fighting on top with others and a backmarker is going around one-armed with a cup of coffee and watching tv as well you really need those binding to make the flag more offical.

If everyone is reading the chat, checking the map, mirrrors & flags, every race could be more then a pleasure and if you do this you show respect to everybody else. But as you said, we all have started once and had to learn all this stuff.

I agree with that too, I've seen you driving competitively and you've never really spammed the whole blue flag thing (I should know should i :P) but again this comes down to the few silly people who need to spam it constantly.

[510N3D]

My favorite situation in context with blue flag:

People (backmarkers) are blocking and causing a crash, then they ask or even insult me why this happend or even better, they shift the blame on me !? :D :pillepall :shrug: :schwitz::smileypul

[Hallen]

I'll be infront of someone with a blue flag on my screen and i'm fighting for my position ...

Who are you fighting for position with? A guy in front of you on the same lap? If so, you are right, you are entitled to fight for you position.

But at the same time, you are not allowed to hold up the lapping driver behind you. If you think that you can fight with the car lapping you, then you really do need to understand the blue flag "rules" better. It is a bit like golf though, everybody has a slightly different interpretation of the rules and it is on the honor system mostly.

These are realistic situations that happen in real races. You can use it to your advantage. The guy you are fighting with has the same requirement you do. Get behind the lapping car once you let them by. Draft him and use him as a pick to get inside your competitor and take the position. :D
Of course this is assuming that have not joined mid-race or something like that.

[tomylee]

You guys don't understand what TypeRCivic is saying. He is fighting with somebody on the same lap and then comes a faster car. He has the right to fight the position and does not have to give way right away. The faster car can use on the next straight the draft to overtake him. The problem is that those guys are not patient enough to bring them in the corner in position to overtake after the corner. No, they push and pumb into the slower car (not all of course). The whole thing is called RACING and not HOTLAPING!!!
I give TypeRCivic right, there are guys who just can't stay cool and act cool.
I even had drivers who were lap's behind me and pushed me off track and saying I'm to slow and I should shut up. That's race spirit...........

[510N3D]

You guys don't understand what TypeRCivic is saying. He is fighting with somebody on the same lap and then comes a faster car. He has the right to fight the position and does not have to give way right away. The faster car can use on the next straight the draft to overtake him. The problem is that those guys are not patient enough to bring them in the corner in position to overtake after the corner. No, they push and pumb into the slower car (not all of course). The whole thing is called RACING and not HOTLAPING!!!
I give TypeRCivic right, there are guys who just can't stay cool and act cool.
I even had drivers who were lap's behind me and pushed me off track and saying I'm to slow and I should shut up. That's race spirit...........


Be sure we do understand, he is fighting for his position while he is getting blue flag, then the priority is to give room for the leading driver(s) which doent means he has to give up on his battle at all. If youre able to give room and also keep on fighting for youre position then youve got some skills and do it with race spirit :) Situations with idiots excluded in this case.

[evilgeek]

word to big bird(er)! :)

i think the conedodgers servers are very well run, and getting better all the time. i think one of the reasons you see such an emphasis in enforcing the blue flag rules in the chat screen is that the races there are very competative, and everyone wants a good clean race. it's very rare for anyone to actually be lapped in a 10 lap race, and the vast majority of blue flag warnings are a result of people joining mid-race. when there are 20 cars on track, with the top 10 finishing within 20 seconds of the leader, even the smallest disruption caused by a late joiner can ruin a very exciting race for several drivers (not just the one directly interfered with).

there are a ton of servers available online, and i would say that conedodgers is one of the best and most fun going, but if you are still learning how to handle the car in heavy traffic, it might not be the best place to practice, simply because it's so competetive.

but for those who insist on giving it a go, at least try to finish your races when you start them, even if you go off in T1. if you end up a minute or more behind the leaders, so what? you'll finish the race, get some experience, and you wont see any blue flags. but if you keep crashing and rejoining, you ruin everyone's fun, including your own.

my 3 cents...

[jtr99]

It's one of racings unsolvable problems...unfortunately, and moaning and whinging isn't gonna solve it one bit.

I don't know about unsolvable. How about limiting people to 1 chat binding message every 2 seconds, and no more than 10 per lap unless they've got admin status?

[nihil]

Im still unsure about this point, back when I could race online I used to frequent the AS National GTR servers, which were sometimes set to 20 laps, if they were half way through the race I would join to get some praccy.

I would never get in anyones way and be extra curtious as im not fighting for position, but if I came up to a driver very quickly who was obviously a lot slower than me, id tail them for a bit and pass when safe to do so. Now sometimes when this happened I would get spammed with "BLUE FALG MOVE OVER" and that did used to annoy me, afaik if you are consistantly faster and dont cause an accident its prefectly ok to cruise past :shrug:

is this right?

Absolutely right. If you can pass then no one has the right to get verbal. If someone managed an opportunistic pass and then continued at a slower speed than the overtaken car, then it might be different.

I was just saying that if you're behind me in the positions then I will give no quarter and hold my line until I'm tired of you filling my mirrors!

The guy with the blue-flag must not wait until the car is at his back before reacting on blue-flag...

This is nonsense - IRL you only get out of the way at the soonest safe opportunity. You cannot say absolutely that a slower car must get out of the way as soon as the blue flag is shown. If the traffic is busy, (eg. the slower car is itself involved in a passing manoevre) then the faster car may have to wait a bit until things settle.

I don't know about unsolvable.

Me either. Just turn the chatter off.

[avenger1]

well, you should not allow them to come close to you. just dont appear on the track where they are driving, its not that hard, just pit in/out if they approach or drive to the grass, thats it. :thumb: i have never had such situation when someone hits me in the back because i'm not letting him to pass.
JUST DON'T GIVE him a reason to spam and yell :nod:

[Flycantbird]

If you receive the blue flag, say coming out of T1 at Blackwood, and have made no effort to relinquish position to a faster car behind you by the time you reach the turn at the end of that long straight - you have little common sense, or racing sense.

Yes you might have to slow, as everyone is pretty fast on a straight, but there is no better place to let the pass occur, and you will definatly hold the person behind you up in the turn(s) ahead, and possibly end up causing both of you to crash.

On the other hand, same situation, but the slower car in front is battling another car directly in front of him for position, and I'm the faster car at the very back - I accept that there is a battle in front of me, and the only way I'm getting around is by some miracle / mistake , or incredible draft.
I can't expect them to stop their battle. It's going to be tricky to get by them, and I could lose a position because of this.

THATS racing. You can't always get around slower cars because you 'need' to. On the other hand, there is NO reason for a single slow car to hold up any faster car.

What is bewildering is the mid race joiners, who are several laps down and make no effort to relinquish a position, despite the fact that every other person on the track is well ahead, so it doesn't matter who's on their bumper, they are legitimately needing to get by.

I suspect that people not responding quickly ( or at all ) to Blue Flag messages have often not been in the position of being in front of a race for 90% of it, only to have it ruined by a slower driver with a blatant lack of common sense.

[GianniC]

Word.

Don't get your point... :shy:

[nihil]

well, you should not allow them to come close to you. just dont appear on the track where they are driving, its not that hard, just pit in/out if they approach or drive to the grass, thats it. :thumb: i have never had such situation when someone hits me in the back because i'm not letting him to pass.
JUST DON'T GIVE him a reason to spam and yell :nod:

LOL - Pit?! Drive to the grass?! You are joking? If a faster car can't pass me if I yield and go off line, then he has had his chance!

But then personally, I'd also ban track maps, and the magical pit crew that can fix a wreck in seconds. Crash and you join the spectators in the pitlane! Happy Christmas? Humbug!

LOL

[avenger1]

LOL - Pit?! Drive to the grass?! You are joking? If a faster car can't pass me if I yield and go off line, then he has had his chance!

But then personally, I'd also ban track maps, and the magical pit crew that can fix a wreck in seconds. Crash and you join the spectators in the pitlane! Happy Christmas? Humbug!

LOL


i have made a mistake, off course you should not pit in if you're on 8th lap, and your opponent - on 9th, i'm talking about people who just joined the server.
you probably think im stupid enough ;) to pit in everytime when someone comes nearby, we are talking about completely different things.
see you on the track :thumb:

[nihil]

i have made a mistake, off course you should not pit in or out if you're on 8th lap, and your opponent - on 9th, i'm talking about people who just joined the server :(

Ah, sorry... Fair 'nuff...

[bhs]

The only time I mind a blue flag is when the guy flagging me can't actually catch me. He's 100 yards behind me and not gaining but he wants me to throw my car into the gravel so he can get by. If you can't lap me, don't blue flag me.

[sgt.flippy]

Don't get your point... :shy:
It means you're right.

I don't yield for blue flag, only if I know for sure it's the leader of the race, otherwise, if he's little more back in the pack, I'll race him. As far as I'm concerned we both enjoy doing that, because I can immediately start racing, and for him the race ain't over yet.

[evilgeek]

It means you're right.

I don't yield for blue flag, only if I know for sure it's the leader of the race, otherwise, if he's little more back in the pack, I'll race him. As far as I'm concerned we both enjoy doing that, because I can immediately start racing, and for him the race ain't over yet.

but for him the race isn't with you. he may have chosen a strategy for the whole race, and only cares about finishing well against the other cars he started against, not about racing for 2 or 3 corners against you. a race is bigger than that, and if you decide for him that it will be more fun to "race" you while he's in the middle of a real race, you could spoil everything for him. maybe he's just fought someone for 3 laps who is now in the pits, and he has clear track ahead, but you decide to get in his way...

personally, i love a clean race, but i would ram you off the track if you did this to me, because it's obvious that you have no respect for other drivers, and can't be reasoned with. a blue flag is a blue flag, no matter who you think you are.

[Davo]

Ramming people off the track, you're true to your name.

[Hankstar]

... i would ram you off the track ... because it's obvious that you have no respect for other drivers ...

Double-standard with a side order of hypocrisy. Fries with that?

I don't yield for blue flag, only if I know for sure it's the leader of the race, otherwise, if he's little more back in the pack, I'll race him. As far as I'm concerned we both enjoy doing that, because I can immediately start racing, and for him the race ain't over yet.

*sigh* it doesn't matter if it's the leader or a mid-fielder, if you get a blue flag you must yield to someone who's lapping you. They can be in last place but if they're a lap ahead, they're still a lap ahead and you still must yield. Deal with it! :shrug: If it's evilgeek, Phlos or senna 87, take care to do it quickly or prepare to eat wall :tilt:

The ignorance of RL racing rules & etiquette on this forum sometimes blows my mind! :really:

[jtr99]

If it's evilgeek, Phlos or senna 87, take care to do it quickly or prepare to eat wall :tilt:

Someday somebody will come up with some great video of senna87 driving around a supermarket car park and "firing off" Volvos that don't yield quickly enough for his taste. :)

The ignorance of RL racing rules & etiquette on this forum sometimes blows my mind! :really:

Scary huh? You'd think this group of people would be naturally interested to educate themselves a little.

Edit: that came out wrong. Obviously lots of people here are highly knowledgeable about motorsport. I'm just wondering why there's a minority who (for example) don't know what a blue flag means.

[Hankstar]

LOL at the image of a hotshot FOX running around a mall carpark punting Volvos :D

Yep, I sure didn't mean to indict the whole community with my comment. Most people I've raced know what the story is. What really blows my mind is that a minority of people (yet still a significant number) are happy to display their ignorace publicly, even when they have this massively infinite resource called The Internet available to help clarify things. Sure, most of it is porn or conspiracy theories or whorespace junk but if you know where to look, nuggets of truth can be found! :)

[TypeRCivic]

Well I guess people have there own opinion of " BLUE FLAG " but when a server declined connection because of one punk who rammed me of the track and instantly I'm a " BANNER. " :shrug: I dont have much positive things to say about the problem, and I really wish people would stop the BS about blue flags. I do let up on gas on straight away or go wide on a corner, but I dont agree with spaming BLUE FLAG before you see me or if I cant see you in mirror.

[TagForce]

Someday somebody will come up with some great video of senna87 driving around a supermarket car park and "firing off" Volvos that don't yield quickly enough for his taste. :)



Scary huh? You'd think this group of people would be naturally interested to educate themselves a little.

Edit: that came out wrong. Obviously lots of people here are highly knowledgeable about motorsport. I'm just wondering why there's a minority who (for example) don't know what a blue flag means.

I think you may thank F1 for that, because they are the only series that keep changing the blue flag rules, and (overly) strictly enforce them.

[wsinda]

Of course, everybody respects the blue flag. It's just that there are so many shades of blue... :shrug:

These blue flag discussions never lead anywhere. Mods, could you do the same as with "I've been banned" threads? That is, lock them and refer to a sticky like this thread (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2146).

[sgt.flippy]

*sigh* it doesn't matter if it's the leader or a mid-fielder, if you get a blue flag you must yield to someone who's lapping you. They can be in last place but if they're a lap ahead, they're still a lap ahead and you still must yield. Deal with it! :shrug: If it's evilgeek, Phlos or senna 87, take care to do it quickly or prepare to eat wall :tilt:

The ignorance of RL racing rules & etiquette on this forum sometimes blows my mind! :really:
I mean, when that person is way behind, and I'm possitivily sure he's not fighting for a position, and I only do it in small races, like 4-5 laps, it's not like a lot of people have a pit strategy for those :tilt:

If I really annoy someone with it, he'll probably let me know, and then I'll let him pass, I'm not making it dangerous, or at least try not to :scratchch

[Hallen]

Well I guess people have there own opinion of " BLUE FLAG " but when a server declined connection because of one punk who rammed me of the track and instantly I'm a " BANNER. " :shrug: I dont have much positive things to say about the problem, and I really wish people would stop the BS about blue flags. I do let up on gas on straight away or go wide on a corner, but I dont agree with spaming BLUE FLAG before you see me or if I cant see you in mirror.

Cause and effect...
Don't let it worry you too much, just choose another server. There are lots out there.

I have little patients for drivers who don't pay attention. It is one of my faults I guess. I voted to kick a guy last night because he did not honor the blue flag, tried to race me, then blocked me into a corner. I did punt him, but not intentionally. I voted to kick him just to get his attention. I knew the rest of the guys on the server would not vote with me, they much prefer to teach and guide rather than punish.

If you wreck a lot and rejoin from the pits, are very much slower than everybody else on a server, or you become a moving chicane, even if you do try to observe the blue flags most of the time, you will still get booted or banned from some servers.

Pick another car or another server where the competition level is more suited for you. Or, if you are experienced, and it is just a new track/car combo for you, practice offline for a bit until you get up to speed.

I think that most people agree, as do I, that spamming Blue flag binds at cars that are way out of range is annoying, but is nothing worth worrying about too much. Just do your best, and if people are still being stupid about it, just pick a different server.

[cvearl]

There is only 1 Blue Flag rule in LFS and this is from their own documentation...

""""Blue Flag

A blue flag tells you that a car behind is in a higher position than you are. The action you will take depends on your situation. Let's examine the two likely situations where a blue flag will appear in Live For Speed.

- If you are being lapped by a faster car: The car behind you is consistently faster than you and has managed to travel one more lap than you have. He is about to overtake you and the blue flag is displayed to warn you of his presence.
In this case you are hindering his progress and must allow him to pass you as soon as it is safe to do so (you can't be expected to yield while negotiating a chicane or high speed corner) Hold your line don't fight the other car, do not make any sudden movements left or right, ease off slightly and let him pass. He is a lap ahead of you and you are not fighting him for position. You must not hold him up."""


NOTE to SLOWER DRIVERS....

Generally it is accepted that you hold your line and make no sudden or defensive moves, allowing the faster car to overtake you.
You will earn respect from all drivers for acting sensibly and fairly when faced with a blue or yellow flag.

NOTE to Faster drivers...

Approaching a slower driver, do not RAM people in the entrance of a turn. You are the experienced driver. Let up a bit. Analyse the driver in front of you a sec. When you see your chance, pass em. fast exit and roll past on the straight or whatever. That is all there is to it.

From a rookies standpoint I guess. But that's how it seems to work best.

I NEVER pull off the track just because some guy wants by. No one has been upset with me yet. knock on wood.

C.

[duke_toaster]

IMO any driver who expects drivers to deploy the anchors on a straight, drive off track or shift-s to let him through should be licence banned - the blue flag only means to not block them.

[Darkone55]

Then why is it F1 drivers get a drive-trought penalty if they not go off the line to let faster drivers pass? The slower driver must imo be the one to go off the gas.. Especially if they have just joined the server. Imo you don't have much rights when you just join a server when a race is already going on.

[marsaz]

Then why is it F1 drivers get a drive-trought penalty if they not go off the line to let faster drivers pass? The slower driver must imo be the one to go off the gas.. Especially if they have just joined the server. Imo you don't have much rights when you just join a server when a race is already going on.


the rules in F1 are a slightly bit different because of the difficulty to overtake

and you get that penalty only if you pass 3 successful blue flags and not let the faster car by. Which isn't an instant let through either

[TagForce]

Then why is it F1 drivers get a drive-trought penalty if they not go off the line to let faster drivers pass? The slower driver must imo be the one to go off the gas.. Especially if they have just joined the server. Imo you don't have much rights when you just join a server when a race is already going on.

Yes, and no... Alonso got a penalty for alledgedly blocking Massa even though Massa was so far away I doubt LFS would have given even a blue flag message. Those are the F1 adaptations of Blue Flag rules. They have no connection to the normal racing blue flag rules, other than the color of the used flag.

F1 is really a bad series to use for basing your blue flag rules on, because they are really different from other forms of racing.

[jamesgp2viper]

There's absolutely no point in holding up a car trying to lap you. The longer you hold a faster car behind you, the more time you lose yourself.

[Darkone55]

There's absolutely no point in holding up a car trying to lap you. The longer you hold a faster car behind you, the more time you lose yourself.

Agree. But the point is, that in LFS, the slower drivers are so unpredictable.. That's why I usually send a blue flag message very soon. So they have tons of time to find a decent place to let me pass.

And I found out that the slower drivers usually can't really estimate how long it will take for that faster driver approach..

[bbman]

Personally, I find those blue flag-messages extremely annoying and if somebody thinks he has to spam the server with those, don't expect me to move over one millimetre more than he needs to pass me... And when he can't get past then without taking us both out: Tough... My race wasn't worth very much anyway when I get blue flags...

[nihil]

Agree. But the point is, that in LFS, the slower drivers are so unpredictable.

No, they are just slower... How much more predictable do you need them to be? :really: And its your car, your responsibility to guide it safely through an overtake. By spamming early you're just adding pressure to ensure the slower driver meets your expectations of unpredictability. Its called "passing the blame".

Sorry, this thread should be allowed to die, because its one of those "I'm entrenched" type of arguments....

But... come on... its irresistable. Vent here and then you won't need to spam on track!

[Hankstar]

I don't see the point in sending a "blue flag" message. If you're lapping someone, surely they're getting a giant "BLUE FLAG" message from LFS in the middle of their screen anyway :shrug: If they don't obey it, then they get to deal with the consequences: a kick/ban, maybe some colourful language, an overly aggressive passing move, perhaps even some polite schooling after the race :)

Besides, many people block messages once the start sequence is under way so there's no guarantee your message has even been seen by the backmarker.

I don't see this as an issue to be taking sides on, or becoming "entrenched" in one point of view. It's not only common sense & courtesy, it's a rule in practically every form of RL racing (I know Bernie's F1 Flying Circus isn't the best example but the spirit of the rule is the same). People should know what to do, both when they receive a blue flag from LFS and when they're catching a backmarker. I think a sticky might be in order, along the lines of the "I got banned" thread (whoever suggested that, good idea :up:). Sure, not everyone would read it but if there was a sticky to refer people to it might reduce us all repeating ourselves a bit :)

[cvearl]

No, they are just slower... How much more predictable do you need them to be? :really: And its your car, your responsibility to guide it safely through an overtake. By spamming early you're just adding pressure to ensure the slower driver meets your expectations of unpredictability. Its called "passing the blame".

Sorry, this thread should be allowed to die, because its one of those "I'm entrenched" type of arguments....

But... come on... its irresistable. Vent here and then you won't need to spam on track!

QFT!

[nihil]

This was recently posted by Steve Cloyd. The whole text (http://www.gpladdicts.speedgeezers.com/guides/Steve's%20Semi-Worthless%20Guide.htm) is worth a gander, but here's the pertinent bit:

That said people still make mistakes. Lord knows I still do and I’ve been doing this for over 10 years now. In my opinion there is nothing harder in any sim than coming up on a car going 40mph or so slower than you in a turn and trying to guess what he or she is going to do, or conversely, being that slower driver knowing he’s coming and trying to decide what the hell to do. I’ve been on both sides of that fence. When I was first starting out, I got drilled a few times from behind. I’ve also been on the other side where I was faster and guessed wrong. I know how each guy in that scenario feels. I also know the odds are neither person meant to wreck the other.

If you find yourself in either position, I find it best to just apologize, move on, and save the replay to see if there was anything you could have done differently. Could I have slowed a bit earlier and tried to pass him in a different place? Did I not give him enough room? Did I drift off-line and then swerve back onto the line as the faster guy went by?

Literally put yourself in the other person’s car in the replay and imagine you’re them. What did they see? Could you expect them to react differently than they did? Sometimes what you see from the other person’s perspective, fast or slow, can be quite shocking. Sometimes shit just happens.

Sometimes though you can spot something you could do to change a situation you thought was another guys fault in the heat of battle. We’re all in this together.

[cvearl]

You know. I have never considered watching my car from another cars cabin like that. That could be fun all by itself! :scratchch

Gonna save replays like that more often and look at them later cause I am dieing to see what I did to wreck them accidentally when I though I was sticking to my line and so on.

C.

[Hankstar]

:nod:

Steve makes a good point about viewing replays of incidents to gain some perspective and I think many RL drivers would do the same thing, if only to confirm what they thought happened anyway. However I realise LFS's replay system isn't the most instantly accessible - you can't check a replay straight away without leaving the server altogether and loading it up. We all know the pain of speeding through a 10+ lap replay to see one incident, missing it and then cursing the fact that we can't reverse or edit a replay in-game - you need to first video-capture it with another program and maybe even edit it with yet another one.

Mostly, leaving replays aside, I think we all need to realise that we're as human as the next guy and just as prone to mistakes as the next guy. In LFS the cars and effects may be simulated but the racing itself - the contest between humans - is very real, as are the passions and emotions that arise from it. If more people can remember that fact, sim racing would be more pleasurable for more people more of the time :)

[Lightsaver]

I've been racing in CONEDOGERS with the FZR international and nothing bothers me more then PEOPLE OVER DOING BLUE FLAG. I'll be infront of someone with a blue flag on my screen and i'm fighting for my position and they say GHOSTRYDER BLUE FLAG....BLUE FLAG.... then as i approach a turn they rear end me and spin me out!!!!! IF they have the faster car they can get me on the straight away, why am i going to slow down and let tem pass when i'm intitled to fight for my position as long as it's clean, right? Well thats not how it goes. I have never intentionally bumped anyone or caused a wreck to keep my position.

What a hell of a luck i see this thread.

I was this guy coming from behind to overtake u! try to tell the whole story when u want to blame one.

I was the race leader having a close race with the guy behind me. u, my friend, were more then 2 laps behind me with noone infront of u who you could have raced.

so i was closing u fast on start streight heading T1. just as i wanted to pass u in the inside of the corner u managed to get in my way and blocked me the first time.

i stood behind you to get the draft for passing u on the way to the 2 hairpins. i was going to pass u just as we reached the streight before the 2 hairpins when u decided to head in my direction to block me a second time. i had to make a decision go on the grass ruining my race or defending my line which u were heading for when i was beside u.

so u didnt only block me, u wrecked my and your car aswell.
by the way there was showing up one "blue flag" massage when u blocked me the first time in the T1 corner coming from an admin.


what the hell make u think u have to fight when u are beeing lapped? i dont get it into my head, sorry...

[Sticky-Micky]

I've been racing in CONEDOGERS with the FZR international and nothing bothers me more then PEOPLE OVER DOING BLUE FLAG. I'll be infront of someone with a blue flag on my screen and i'm fighting for my position and they say GHOSTRYDER BLUE FLAG....BLUE FLAG.... then as i approach a turn they rear end me and spin me out!!!!! IF they have the faster car they can get me on the straight away, why am i going to slow down and let tem pass when i'm intitled to fight for my position as long as it's clean, right? Well thats not how it goes. I have never intentionally bumped anyone or caused a wreck to keep my position.



ahh, are you the bloke who was holding me up???

black FZR?

yes i remember, i belive i was pretty high up in the race order (2/3 position?), driving a bloody FXR and you never yielded to the blue flag, i DO NOT put up a blue flag message myself, i think they are gay, but i do remember others putting up a message who were watching you

Turn 2 at aston nat, i move towards the outside kerb expecting you to hit the brakes and let me past (after all you never slowed up while approaching the turn!!??!!) to find you swinging out towards the kerb, i locked up and hit your back end spinning you out, IIRC i came out much better and you spat your dummy out.

you are a crap driver :D

[Sticky-Micky]

i think he is complaining about the fact, faster drivers sometimes behave like they are stalin/hitler/napolen and think everyone who is in their way should dissolve and better never touch a wheel again...



this is not true, he was not letting me past safely!!! he swung out which was on route to force me off the track, just as i was starting to turn left for turn 2,

any normal person would have backed off the throttle a little before turn 2 and let the car behind past!!??!!

he was just gutted because a FXR driver was storming through and he wanted to throw his toys from the pram, plenty of people were watching at the time, like i say i do not use a Fkey "blue flag get the feck outa there" message :)

[Sticky-Micky]

You guys don't understand what TypeRCivic is saying. He is fighting with somebody on the same lap and then comes a faster car.


there was no other car for him to battle with :)
i can assure you, wish i had saved the bloody replay :thumb:

god its a good job i have not been able to sleep tonight or i might have missed this thread LOL
his PB at aston is "fz50 gtr 1:45.36"

it looks like it is indeed the same person, maybe he never checked his mirrors, maybe he never realised i was there?

maybe his google adblocker stopped the "blue flag" popping up onscreen LOL

i have my thoughts on the subject :D

[Davo]

Now we have two people coming forward being the one that's lapping this guy. Hmmm.

[Sticky-Micky]

Now we have two people coming forward being the one that's lapping this guy. Hmmm.


who is the other?

this ghostryder person might not be the same one, but i do remember him driving a black FZR, i pretty much ignored the "incident" at the time and it was not until after the race when the toys were thrown from the pram, he was not banned at the incident, so maybe there was another afterwards?

i race at conedodgers most nights :) it was the first time i had ever seen him

FWIW i can remeber asking him about the blue flag after the race (i normaly drive wth blocked messages anyway), and got some waffle back, i then rember typing in something along the lines of "you tried to force me off and got your arse wiped" meaning as i turned left and locked a little i skimmed the back end of his rear
he took this as "you got your arse whipped" and started getting angry LOL

[The Architect]

I agree totally. I was on a server (I won't mention which one) where some guy was smart enough to yell BLUE FLAG three times or so, and then he bumped me. Mind you, this wasn't on a straight, this was a narrow chicane. If it was a hairpin, I'd be even more pissed.

[Meanie]

Now we have two people coming forward being the one that's lapping this guy. Hmmm.

Not really.
One of them said he was the race leader and the other said he was at up to 2nd or 3rd place.

Anyway it might have happened in more than one race too.

[Davo]

The other guy is Lightsaver and posted a few minutes before. No mention of using BLUE FLAG MOVE OVER.

[ayrton senna 87]

If it's evilgeek, Phlos or senna 87, take care to do it quickly or prepare to eat wall :tilt:

how am i a geek? tosser

[Belain]

somebody was just sayin the truth and u start callin those "tossers" again?

no comment -.-

[Sticky-Micky]

What a hell of a luck i see this thread.

I was this guy coming from behind to overtake u! try to tell the whole story when u want to blame one.

I was the race leader having a close race with the guy behind me. u, my friend, were more then 2 laps behind me with noone infront of u who you could have raced.

so i was closing u fast on start streight heading T1. just as i wanted to pass u in the inside of the corner u managed to get in my way and blocked me the first time.

i stood behind you to get the draft for passing u on the way to the 2 hairpins. i was going to pass u just as we reached the streight before the 2 hairpins when u decided to head in my direction to block me a second time. i had to make a decision go on the grass ruining my race or defending my line which u were heading for when i was beside u.

so u didnt only block me, u wrecked my and your car aswell.
by the way there was showing up one "blue flag" massage when u blocked me the first time in the T1 corner coming from an admin.


what the hell make u think u have to fight when u are beeing lapped? i dont get it into my head, sorry...

light saver what is your racer name?

are you a regular on [cd]
it seams the same thing has happend to you!!??!!
although it happend for me just as i was turning left for T2 and not on the straight joining T1 to T2

here is the last time i was on CD
Last race information: (22:47-10 Dec '06)
Host: [CD] ConeDodgersRacing1
Position: 6th out of 19, doing 10 laps
Time / best lap: 18:17.150 / 1:43.350 (10)
Track and car: AS national, FXR


this i belive was 1/2 races after the "incident"

it maybe so that the lighsaver one happened after this? i was there when ghostryder left
sounds like he is a regular crash TBH, or maybe he should practice a little offline with the AI before joining competitive online races?

so as regarding this chap being sick of people "spamming" "blue flag", maybe this is because he fails to take any attention to the actual blue flags, and he is pissing everybody off with his n00b attitude?

[Davo]

how am i a geek? tosser
They were actually talking about a guy named evilgeek. Way to misread and jump to conclusions.

[robgo]

Maybe it would be a good idea to make a test about what people would do in certain blue flag situations and why. So here is a common one: You are racing at AS national with the FZR in a 10 laps race. You get a blue flag in a staright and a turn where you also have to break is coming soon(about 300 meters to go). Let this turn be the first one. The car that wants to overtake you is 6 meters behind and has no time for getting into your slipstream, and pass you in the straight. What would you do?

If i were in such a sitiuation i probably joined the race later, or had an absolultly crap race, so my race is ruined anyway. I would move to the right and break, much before the corner, so that the person behind me knew in time that he can break in the outside and take the normal line in the turn, touching the inside of the turn too. This way i know that i won't cause him any time loss, which is important, since he is still in race, and short races are usually very close. And i am happy that although my race is ruined i hadn't made others' race worse. Fortunatly on Conedodger servers this is the common way of driving when you get a blue flag that is one reason i like driving there. :)

There are people here whose posts suggest that they would would force the car behind to take other line then the ideal one, causing him time loss. I think this is selfish. But i would love to hear their opinon why would they do so if they would.

[tomylee]

when u get a blue flag and u leave the ideal line u do cause more problems than keeping the line. a lot of noobs do that and it's so dangeres. the driver who is overtaking is good enough to handle the situation right with changing line. when u catch up to a "blue flag guy" you prepare yourself to overtake him, when he now changes line and this maybe just in front of you, it will spoil more when anything else.

BTW I watched yesterday a race on the CD server and there was a driver from the CD team spamming way behind the car "BLUE FLAG" :really:

[nihil]

Maybe it would be a good idea to make a test about what people would do in certain blue flag situations and why. So here is a common one: You are racing at AS national with the FZR in a 10 laps race. You get a blue flag in a staright and a turn where you also have to break is coming soon. Let this turn be the first one. The car that wants to overtake you is 6 meters behind. What do you do?

If i were in such a sitiuation i probably joined the race later, or had an absolultly crap race, so my race is ruined anyway. I would move to the right and break, much before the corner, so that the person behind me knew in time that he can break in the outside and take the normal line in the turn, touching the inside of the turn too. This way i know that i won't cause him any time loss, which is important, since he is still in race, and short races are usually very close. And i am happy that although my race is ruined i hadn't made others' race worse. Fortunatly on Conedodger servers this is the common way of driving when you get a blue flag that is one reason i like driving there. :)

There are people here whose posts suggest that they would would force the car behind to take other line then the ideal one, causing him time loss. I think this is selfish. But i would love to hear their opinon why would they do so if they would.

LOL... I wouldn't even be there... I've looked in on a few FZR/ASnational races and everyone seems to be doing 1.41.XX laps. I can do consistent 1.45.XX, but that would still mean there aren't even any backmarkers I could mix it with!

But, whatever... I hope the software would blueflag before some missile was six metres away from my backside.... and I would probably do pretty much exactly what you suggest anyway - though I'm not sure.... if he was only six metres away, I might wait until I've completed the turn....

[robgo]

tomylee>
As i described the situation, the car behind is 6 meters away from you, and the turn is quite close. That's why the car behind does not want to get into your slipstream. I am usually the one who has to lap others and i am happy if someone lets me pass like i described in my previcious post. Of course when the turn is far away, you have a blue flag, and the guy behind you is in your slipstream don't break, because he wants to get extra speed behind you.

nihil>
6 meters is not a big distance, especially in that fast corner, where you have to count with much dirt air and especially if you can do only 1.45.x.

[tomylee]

robgo:
the most drivers who get lapped havn't much experience, this means the react mostly not right or misjudge the situation and cause an eccident. Therefore I say, just keep the line, go your normal speed and I will do what is needed. They might go a bit to the outside of the corner so that I can pass them inside. Thats all.

PS: 6 meters aren't much with 250km/h ;)

[nihil]

nihil>
6 meters is not a big distance, especially in that fast corner, where you have to count with much dirt air and especially if you can do only 1.45.x.

Not sure what your point is there - seem to be repeating what I was saying... six metres is pretty late for a blue flag.

[robgo]

nihil>
If you are about 50 meters before the turn, and the car is 6 meters behind you, you would better let him pass before the corner. That's what i wanted to say.:)

tomylee>
If somebody moves to the right before a left hand turn and slows down there, and lets the car behind him to pass before the turn, it can't be wrong. Otherwise in a series of short races not experienced drivers doesn't get more blue flag, then experienced drivers.

[nihil]

nihil>
If you are about 50 meters before the turn, and the car is 6 meters behind you, you would better let him pass before the corner. That's what i wanted to say.:)

Yeah - that's the problem with abstract situations like the one you suggest. Like I say, I don't think the situation would arise, because I would have seen both the car and the blue flag before he was six metres from my rear end and long before the corner came up.

At six metres away, the other driver would already have decided what he was going to do - either take the pass or wait, so the decision is pretty much made for me...

[robgo]

This is a very tipical situation according to my statisctics.:) ok, maybe 6 meters a bit too short, maybe 10 meters would have been better, because this corener is after a very long straight.

[tomylee]

I use often the slipstream oft those cars to get some extra speed so I don't like when they move.
What I did experience is that the best it is when they all keep the line and I know already what to do.
Anyway, the blue flag car has either not much experience and will make something wrong or the other driver is doing a race and fighting for a postition so he should not slow down for me. If I'm faster I will bring myself in posotion that I can catch him before or after the staight.
Racing is not thaaaaaat hard so don't make a science out of it. :scratchch

[Gunn]

It takes just a quick moment to travel 50 metres. Moving off your line at that point would be insane. The blue flag does not give the lapping car right of way as soon as they are in an overtaking position. Both cars need to use some common sense. Negotiating backmarkers is a part of racing. To expect people to jump out of your way on command is just wrong. To expect to not have your possible PB interupted is just naive. The blue flag does not mean "clear the track, here I come!".

For backmarkers about to be lapped: if you think you should fight with the lapping car you then are on another planet entirely. You would be disqualified in real life. If you think he should work his way past you without you yielding to him then you are out of your mind. You would be disqualified in real life.

Both parties will often have to make a small compromise and that is the reality of it, it is sometimes unavoidable. The car being lapped should make no sudden or unpredictable moves (especially if the lapping car is close to you) and should simply allow the lapper to overtake at the earliest sensible opportunity. Yes, you must allow him/her to go through. If you join mid-race then you aren't even in the contest in the first place, don't fight.

[robgo]

Tommylee>
i added to my initial post today: The car behind you has no time for getting into your slipstream, and pass you in the straight. :razz:

[tomylee]

It takes just a quick moment to travel 50 metres. Moving off your line at that point would be insane. The blue flag does not give the lapping car right of way as soon as they are in an overtaking position. Both cars need to use some common sense. Negotiating backmarkers is a part of racing. To expect people to jump out of your way on command is just wrong. To expect to not have your possible PB interupted is just naive. The blue flag does not mean "clear the track, here I come!".

For backmarkers about to be lapped: if you think you should fight with the lapping car you then are on another planet entirely. You would be disqualified in real life. If you think he should work his way past you without you yielding to him then you are out of your mind. You would be disqualified in real life.

Both parties will often have to make a small compromise and that is the reality of it, it is sometimes unavoidable. The car being lapped should make no sudden or unpredictable moves (especially if the lapping car is close to you) and should simply allow the lapper to overtake at the earliest sensible opportunity. Yes, you must allow him/her to go through. If you join mid-race then you aren't even in the contest in the first place, don't fight.
:nod:

[tomylee]

Tommylee>
i added to my initial post today: The car behind you has no time for getting into your slipstream, and pass you in the straight. :razz:
But he can pass after the corner, what is the problem to wait this corner? Like Gunn saidm it's not that other cars have to jump away. Of course the lapped car should not be damn slow.

[robgo]

It takes just a quick moment to travel 50 metres. Moving off your line at that point would be insane. The blue flag does not give the lapping car right of way as soon as they are in an overtaking position. Both cars need to use some common sense. Negotiating backmarkers is a part of racing. To expect people to jump out of your way on command is just wrong. To expect to not have your possible PB interupted is just naive. The blue flag does not mean "clear the track, here I come!".


I added to my initial post today, that the turn is 300 meters away, so you have time to move away and let the person behind to pass. Also he has no time to overtake you before the turn. And this little poll was not about what do you expect if a lapped car is in front of you. But yes, in a short race like this i expect them to let me pass immidiatly. If they don't i won't hit them or anyting like that, i never did so, not intenionally. But if it happens when i am first and the second is one second behind from me, i will probably give him a kick vote, since that person was totally out of the race already(remember, short race).

[robgo]

But he can pass after the corner, what is the problem to wait this corner? Like Gunn saidm it's not that other cars have to jump away. Of course the lapped car should not be damn slow.

The problem is that the car behind you will lose time because of you. And you were already out of race in a 10 laps race.

[Gunn]

I added to my initial post today, that the turn is 300 meters away, so you have time to move away and let the person behind to pass. Also he has no time to overtake you before the turn. And this little poll was not about what do you expect if a lapped car is in front of you. But yes, in a short race like this i expect them to let me pass immidiatly. If they don't i won't hit them or anyting like that, i never did so, not intenionally. But if it happens when i am first and the second is one second behind from me, i will probably give him a kick vote, since that person was totally out of the race already(remember, short race).
I was responding to this:
nihil>
If you are about 50 meters before the turn, and the car is 6 meters behind you, you would better let him pass before the corner. That's what i wanted to say.

[nihil]

But yes, in a short race like this i expect them to let me pass immidiatly. If they don't i won't hit them or anyting like that, i never did so, not intenionally. But if it happens when i am first and the second is one second behind from me, i will probably give him a kick vote, since that person was totally out of the race already(remember, short race).

I think its already been stated what the blue flag means many times in this thread and your attitude is quite contrary to its spirit. Your example lacks too many details for anyone to respond in the way you want them too. And that is part of the problem, you are only asking the question to proselytise for your own point of view.

The lapped car may not be in your race, but may still be racing for a late position. No, he should not unnecessarily obstruct your progress and no, you should not expect him to jump at your command.

[robgo]

Wasn't it that you should let the car behind pass at the first safe point? 300 meters before a turn is safe. In addition it's safer then letting him pass in a turn.

[nihil]

And yes, he should allow you to pass at the first safest opportunity. Like Tomylee says, its not rocket science.

[robgo]

Your example lacks too many details for anyone to respond in the way you want them too. And that is part of the problem, you are only asking the question to proselytise for your own point of view.
I think it is exact enough now. and yes, i did it for that reason. Is it bad?


The lapped car may not be in your race, but may still be racing for a late position.
I think it's about 1% possibility thath he is in race for a late postion. Don't count cases when somebody is 20 mp before him and he is chasing him.:)


No, he should not unnecessarily obstruct your progress and no, you should not expect him to jump at your command.
Command? I don't spam with blue flag messeges either. I would be just happy if he didn't make the leaders or people who are in close racing to slow down.

[nihil]

I would be just happy if he didn't make the leaders or people who are in close racing to slow down.

Do corners get in your way too?

I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist - its a slow day at work and I'm letting this turn into a chat forum. Sorry again, I'm going to let it go after this post. Promise.

But is it so hard to accept that sometimes you might have to slow down?

[mrodgers]

Robgo, in your situation that you describe, it is too late to move over and let him by. You would be converging together at the apex, thus getting in the leader's way. You would be forcing the lead car to take a different line than the race line at the corner. He would have to take the corner wide, when it should be you taking the corner wide to let the other car through.

The only time you should be moving offline like that would be with plenty of distance left between you and the lead car so he could see your intentions and plenty back towards the beginning of the straight. If the lead car is only 6 meters behind, no matter where on the track, then that is the time the lead is planning and getting ready to execute how he is going to pass you. If it was me 6 meters behind you in that situation then I would have to take evasive manuvers not to crash us as you would definitely be diving into my prepared and planned path.

In normal blue flag race circumstances, just hold your line. You will see when the lead car attempts to make the pass and when he does, lift off the throttle to make it easy. Then both of you continue on your way with minimal impact to the race or to lap times.

In midjoin blue flag circumstances, the best is not to let that happen in the first place. Sit in the garage and wait for a break on the map to allow you to lap by yourself. If someone catches you on the track, you have plenty of warning to pull off line and SLOW DOWN to allow those in the race to pass through. I'm not going to say you have no business being out on the track with other racers. I have no problem with someone joining in and getting some practice/warmup laps. But you have to have no involvement in the race, including being on the race line or in a corner when racers are on your bumper. If you have to slow down way off line on a straight when you first see blue flag, but don't see the car yet in your mirror, then so be it. That is what you have to do because you are not a part of the race. Those racing shouldn't have to pass you, you should make like you are not even there.

Backmarkers are indeed a part of racing. It's what makes racing, racing. Backmarkers can be used effectively in a race with another car if everyone follows rules and plays fair. Midrace joiners are NOT a part of racing and should make the attempt to be invisible to others who are a part of the race, including moving off onto the grass and shift-S'ing into the pits before the blue flaggers arrive.

[TagForce]

If you have to slow down way off line on a straight when you first see blue flag, but don't see the car yet in your mirror, then so be it. That is what you have to do because you are not a part of the race. Those racing shouldn't have to pass you, you should make like you are not even there.

I agree with everything you say, except this part.
I'd rather they keep going until they can clearly see the car coming up behind and can judge its speed. If they have no clue where a car is, chances are they'll slow down enough only to get in the way because they arrived at the turn doin 2mph just as you wanna turn in. If they slow down too much they're bound to become moving chicanes for others. Passing is easier when they are going somewhat slower, not 100 mph slower. Gives you more time to react and prepare for them.

[tomylee]

It's all easy:

Lapped car:
Keep the line and your speed. Except for:
- you are axtrem slow -> change soon line
- you are just a bit slower and the leading car has trouble to catch you to pass
Don't fight back even when you are in a situation faster.

Leading car:
When you catch a lapped car, stay cool and bring yourself in position even when it might take one or two corners to pass. The lapped car has not right away to give way.